Mandela- beyond the image

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mandela

Nelson Mandela wrote about his feelings when he left prison in 1990:

“As I walked out of the door toward the gate that would lead to my freedom, I knew that if I didn’t leave my bitterness and hatred behind, I’d still be in prison.”

Unfortunately, 1990 is where Mandela’s history begins and in 1999 is where it ends for most people. There is more.

Nelson Mandela was a terrorist.

JOHANNESBURG, South Africa — Nelson Mandela, South Africa’s first black president, is a giant in the world of liberation heroes, up there with Mohandas Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr.

But unlike Gandhi, who said that nonviolence and truth were inseparable, and King, who famously declared that violence was immoral, Mandela embraced armed struggle to end the racist system of apartheid.

Mandela was instrumental in the use of violence in South Africa:

An irony of Nelson Mandela’s life is that the African National Congress freedom fighter will forever be remembered as a man of peace. That could not have been envisioned in 1961, when Mandela helped persuade the ANC that violence was necessary to get whites to share power with South Africa’s black majority.

Mandela was co-founder of the MK, or “Tip of the Spear”, an organization created to conduct guerilla warfare against the South African government. Mandela is reported to have written an MK manifesto including the following:

“Our men are armed and trained freedom fighters not terrorists.

We are fighting for democracy—majority rule—the right of the Africans to rule Africa.

We are fighting for a South Africa in which there will be peace and harmony and equal rights for all people.
We are not racialists, as the white oppressors are. The African National Congress has a message of freedom for all who live in our country.”

Mandela’s MK killed many people:

Landmark events in MK’s military activity inside South Africa consisted of actions designed to intimidate the ruling power. In 1983, the Church Street bomb was detonated in Pretoria near the South African Air Force Headquarters, resulting in 19 deaths and 217 injuries. During the next 10 years, a series of bombings occurred in South Africa, conducted mainly by the military wing of the African National Congress.

In the 1985 Amanzimtoti bomb on the Natal South Coast, five civilians were killed and 40 were injured when MK cadre Andrew Sibusiso Zondo detonated an explosive in a rubbish bin at a shopping centre shortly before Christmas. In a submission to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC), the ANC stated that Zondo acted on orders after a recent SADF raid in Lesotho.[9]

In the 1986 Durban beach-front bombing, a bomb was detonated in a bar, killing three civilians and injuring 69. Robert McBride received the death penalty for this bombing which became known as the “Magoo’s Bar bombing”. Although the subsequent Truth and Reconciliation Committee called the bombing a “gross violation of human rights”,[10] McBride received amnesty and became a senior police officer.

In 1987, an explosion outside a Johannesburg court killed three people and injured 10; a court in Newcastle had been attacked in a similar way the previous year, injuring 24. In 1987, a bomb exploded at a military command centre in Johannesburg, killing one person and injuring 68 personnel.

The bombing campaign continued with attacks on a series of soft targets, including a bank in Roodepoort in 1988, in which four civilians were killed and 18 injured. Also in 1988, in a bomb detonation outside a magistrate’s court killed three. At the Ellis Park rugby stadium in Johannesburg, a car bomb killed two and injured 37 civilians. A multitude[citation needed] of bombs in “Wimpy Bar” fast food outlets and supermarkets occurred during the late 1980s, killing and wounding many people. Wimpy were specifically targeted because of their perceived rigid enforcements of many Apartheid-era laws, including excluding people of colour from their restaurants. Several other bombings occurred, with smaller numbers of casualties.

Mandela’s tenure in prison softened him and he turned away from violence, but so not his wife. She continued on, seeming to endorse a particularly brutal tactic known as “necklacing.”

The following five years were increasingly controversial. In 1986 she made a speech in which she talked about achieving liberation from apartheid by using “necklaces” – a reference to the brutal murder of suspected collaborators by putting tyres round their necks and setting them alight. There was also the matter of an opulent £125,000 house built in one of the poorest areas in the country.

Winnie Mandela also maintained a gang of enforcers:

The most serious allegations, however, stemmed from the activities of her personal bodyguards, the so-called Mandela United Football Club. Reports of their brutality were commonplace in Soweto and her house was attacked in 1988 by local people who had had enough.

Mrs Mandela refused to curb the team’s activities, however, and the following year came the decisive incident. A 14-year-old activist, Stompei Seipei Moketsi, was kidnapped by her guards and later found murdered. The ANC leadership declared that she was out of control but Nelson Mandela, in jail and in ill-health, refused to repudiate her.

They divorced in 1996.

Necklacing was a punishment exacted on blacks who were believed to be collaborators with the apartheid regime:

The practice became a common method of lethal lynching during disturbances in South Africa in the 1980s and 1990s. Necklacing sentences were sometimes handed down against alleged criminals by “people’s courts” established in black townships as a means of circumventing the apartheid judicial system. Necklacing was also used to punish members of the black community who were perceived as collaborators with the apartheid regime. These included black policemen, town councilors and others, as well as their relatives and associates. The practice was frequently carried out in the name of the African National Congress (ANC), and was even interpreted to have been implicitly endorsed by Winnie Mandela, then-wife of the imprisoned Nelson Mandela and a senior member of the ANC, although the ANC officially condemned the practice.

The first recorded victim of necklacing was the young girl Maki Skosana in July 1985

“ Her body had been scorched by fire and some broken pieces of glass had been inserted into her vagina, Moloko told the committee.

Mandela was apprehended, tried and convicted of sabotage in 1964 and sentenced to life in prison.

In 1985 Mandela was offered amnesty in return for renouncing violence but he refused, insisting that apartheid be dismantled first.

Later in 1985 South African President P.W. Botha initiated a series of meetings with Mandela, with Kobie Coetsee as his representative. The negotiations led to a meeting between Mandela and Botha in 1989, and Mandela’s release seemed certain. FW de Klerk became President in 1989, lifted the ban on the ANC and promised an end to apartheid and white rule. Mandela was then released in 1990.

There is a very interesting conversation with Coetsee here. It’s worth your time.

Mandela became President in 1994 and served until 1999. His legacy is the end of apartheid and white rule but it would be very wrong to believe South Africa’s problems are over. What came of those changes?

South Africa is a mess.

JOHANNESBURG, South Africa — Nelson Mandela didn’t coin the term “Rainbow Nation” or the phrase “Proudly South African.” But the optimism, determination and compassion of the country at its best owed everything to him.

In recent years, however, South Africa under the leadership of the African National Congress that Mandela loved is often quite different — shoddy, corrupt and incompetent. In short, depressingly like other African countries betrayed by liberation movements.

While life has gradually improved for many, problems once attributed to apartheid stubbornly remain. Nearly two decades after the ANC took power, poor education and healthcare systems still hold back many blacks. The police, no longer dominated by whites, are still brutal. Government departments still treat people with callous disregard.

Despite the existence of a powerful black elite and the growth of a modest black middle class, 40% of the population gets by on less than $40 a month per family member. Whites still earn six times more than blacks. And some analysts say the absolute electoral dominance of the ANC weakens South Africa’s democracy.

The ANC rules, but it doesn’t seem to care.

“We’ve been betrayed by our brothers and sisters,” said Sibusiso Zikode, spokesman for a grass-roots organization of shack-dwellers. “There’s no difference from the apartheid government. It’s a question of human dignity. Treat me as a human being.

“While I’m waiting 20 years for a house, give me water,” he said. “Why would I not get water?”

Bongisisa Gwiliza, a laborer who lives in a shantytown outside Rustenburg, said South Africa’s new leaders did not keep their promises to narrow the gap between rich and poor.

“There’s no sanitation. The place is so dirty,” he said. “The shacks have got holes. When it rains, it floods. There’s a lot of rain coming in. When there’s wind, there’s a lot of wind coming in, and it’s very cold.”

Crime is rampant.

The levels of extreme violence and crime remain high, particularly crime against women. In several cases this year, teenage girls were raped, mutilated and left to die.

During the apartheid years, South Africans living in black townships feared and loathed the police force that the white minority government used as a tool of oppression. When police killed 34 protesting miners outside Johannesburg in 2012, the echo of apartheid-era police brutality shocked the nation.

In early 2013, several police were charged with murder in the death of a Mozambican taxi driver, who was handcuffed to a police car, dragged hundreds of yards along a road and beaten, in an incident caught on cellphone video. The victim died that night of horrific injuries.

Statistics from the independent police watchdog group suggest those incidents are the tip of the iceberg, with 720 deaths in police custody reported in 2011-12. Analysts are uncertain why South Africa’s police force remains so violent. Some blame the policies of former chief Bheki Cele, who sought more powers to deal with heavily armed gangs in a country with one of the globe’s highest rates of violent crime.

Anti-white violence has reached epidemic proportions:

Thousands of white people in South Africa are subjected to atrocious acts of racist violence by black population while South African authorities and media keep silent and reticent. Somehow, the same media stirs tumult over human rights when it comes to the Sahara conflict, usually accusing Morocco of human rights abuse and lobbying against its sovereignty and territorial integrity.

“If your house is made of glass, don’t pelt others with stone.” It seems that South Africa doesn’t apply this golden rule when it goes blind to the increasing ‘black on white’ violence and deaf to the cries of hundreds of children, women, and men killed, tortured or raped by the black people.

It’s blatantly hypocritical of the South African government to claim it is defending the rights of the Sahroui people while human rights have been continuously abused since 1994, when the National African Congress took over government of South Africa. Maintaining the apartheid practices at home and claiming the defense of human rights abroad is simply a double standards and hypocritical approach.

Since the eve of 2013, 230 ‘black on white’ attacks were reported on the South African soil according to CNNiReport. 97 were murdered, 17 women and 2 men were raped usually by a whole gang, 3 people were left with permanent brain damage and one person paralyzed.

There were also 102 farm attacks during which 30 people were murdered. Morocco World News has obtained a detailed list of 55 white women murdered by unknown black males since 15 May 2012 to date in South Africa. This appalling genocide, white South Africans claim, has been going on for the past 20 years while the world kept quiet and enjoyed the show.

It goes largely ignored by the media. More can be seen here.

The problems in South Africa are exacerbated by the election of two successive buffoons:

Mbeki denied the link between HIV and AIDS, and was slow to distribute life-saving antiretroviral drugs. AIDS activists had to take his government to court to force the distribution of medication to prevent mother-to-child transmission of the HIV virus.

And Mandela’s ringing moral authority stood in sharp contrast to Zuma, who has battled corruption charges and questions about his personal behavior. He was acquitted of rape in 2006, but was criticized for having unprotected sex with an HIV-positive family friend about half his age.

Zuma once claimed that he could reduce his chances of contracting AIDS following engaging in unprotected sex with an HIV positive woman by taking a shower.

Zuma has done well for himself as President.

A newspaper investigation found that Zuma’s family had extensive high-level corporate ties and dozens of their own businesses, many of which were established after Zuma became leader of the ANC in 2007.

Needing an enemy as a distraction from the woes he helped create (does that sound familiar?), Zuma assures South Africa that he will seize the economy away from white males:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlxsBYnJErQ[/youtube]

In Zimbabwe, Mugabe did much the same thing to disastrous results.

Here Zuma sings a song about killing Boers (white farmers)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlxsBYnJErQ[/youtube]

To his credit, Mandela dabbled in capitalism and sought foreign investment but his successors have only made things worse:

When he became South Africa’s first black president after winning the nation’s first multi-race elections in 1994, Mandela actively wooed foreign investors. Instead of nationalizing companies, he persuaded the ANC to move away from its socialist ethos and embrace a free and open economy, which fueled South Africa’s economic growth for years.

Today, however, that legacy is under fire. Unemployment remains at nearly 25 percent; whites on average earn six times more than their black counterparts. The ANC youth wing has lobbied hard for the nationalization of banks and mines; according to the Municipal IQ, a Johannesburg-based research group, last year there were a record 173 protests, many of them violent, over a lack of housing, jobs, and basic services. According to World Bank statistics, South Africa remains one of the world’s most economically unequal societies.

A couple of other observations. A man named Tony Hollingsworth claims to be the person who transformed Mandela from terrorist to beloved icon.

Hollingsworth, now 55, envisaged a star-studded concert that would transform Mandela from outlaw to icon in the public’s mind, and in turn press governments adopt a more accommodating stance.

He approached Archbishop Trevor Huddleston, president of the British Anti-Apartheid Movement, to pitch his musical strategy.

“I told Trevor that the African National Congress and the anti-apartheid movement had reached their glass ceiling; they couldn’t go further.”

“Everything you are doing is ‘anti’, you are protesting on the streets, but it will remain in that space. Many people will agree, but you will not appeal them.”

“Mandela and the movement should be seen as something positive, confident, something you would like to be in your living room with.”

While Hollingsworth dealt with artists, Mike Terry — head of the movement in London — dealt with the ANC and the sceptics in the anti-apartheid movement.

And there were many, including Mandela himself, who asked several times that the struggle not be about him.

Many others insisted the focus remain on sanctions against the apartheid regime.

“A lot of people were criticising me for sanitising it,” Hollingsworth remembered.

Eventually Terry convinced the ANC and Hollingsworth convinced Simple Minds, Dire Straits, Sting, George Michael, The Eurythmics, Eric Clapton, Whitney Houston and Stevie Wonder into the 83-artist line up.

With that musical firepower came contracts for a more than 11 hour broadcast.

“We signed with the entertainment department of television (stations). And when the head of the department got home and watched on his channel that they were calling Mandela a terrorist, they called straight to the news section to say, don’t call this man a terrorist, we just signed 11 hours of broadcasting for a tribute about him.”

“This is how we turned Mandela from a black terrorist into a black leader.”

In a mystifying act, Mandela is seen in 2006 participating in a song calling for the killing of whites:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKiePbTcAfY[/youtube]

FYI- it was George W. Bush who removed Mandela from the Terror Watch list.

Nelson Mandela lived two quite different lives. One of violence and death and one of peace. His violent past has been almost totally purged by the media. His greatest achievements came through peace. Mandela could have spent more time being as critical of his successors as he was of the United States. Who was better off being in South Africa? Know anyone who wants to live there? While Mandela is to be admired for the good he did, it is important not to sanitize his life:

From their perspective, Mandela’s critics were right to distrust him. They called him a “terrorist” because he had waged armed resistance to apartheid. They called him a “communist” because the Soviet Union was the ANC’s chief external benefactor and the South African Communist Party was among its closest domestic allies. More fundamentally, what Mandela’s American detractors understood is that he considered himself an opponent, not an ally, of American power. And that’s exactly what Mandela’s American admirers must remember now.

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@PhillipMarlowe:

As for the above comment, I did not accuse you of using the word ass. Just that you turn a blind eye to it when typed by Redtea.

Just for the record Philip, you did accuse Retire of using the word ass, I corrected your comment and said that it had been I. You admitted it at the time, don’t know why you’re backtracking now. Typical of secular progressives.

@PhillipMarlowe:

Do you support traditional marriage?

Yes, or no?

Do you oppose abortion under any circumstances?

Yes, or no?

No one dodges those questions like you do unless you fear the answers will make you look like the hypocrite you are.

@retire05: yep, that was a bow.

@retire05:

:

@PhillipMarlowe: why are you spending so much time kissing his ass?

So he can avoid answering my questions.

Yeah retired, you repeated his words.
Caught you, liar. (Still not sure if you are a racist like red team who attacks the Union and defends the Confederacy, but considering your hatred to Mandela and Obama, they do have in common dark skin.

@Redteam:

Typical of secular progressives.

Phillip is typical of the rat, who when caught eating the cheese, claims it is a victim of the cheese since the cheese was where the rat could find it.

@retire05: Bowing? He bent down to look the old guy in the eyes. BHO appears almost a foot taller than R.C.

@PhillipMarlowe: 187

We know what retired or red team would have done: pissed on his grave

Don’t accuse me of following your example. I would do as I have done, wished him a happy eternity. For the record, I’ve seen no evidence that either General Grant or General Patton ever directed their forces toward civilian women and children. I do know of the evidence that General Sherman did so. Same category, unlikely.

@PhillipMarlowe:

but considering your hatred to Mandela and Obama, they do have in common dark skin.

So does Col. Allen West, Thomas Sowell, Starr Parker, Nigel Ennis, Walter Williams, Tim Scott, Shelby Steele, Doreen Borelli, all of them I hold in great respect and regard.

When you have to resort to calling someone a racist because they disagree with a person’s political philosophy, you have already jumped the shark into irrationality.

So, do you support traditional marriage?

Do you oppose abortion?

Why are you dodging those questions?

You guys will wear the R like a Prynne’s scarlet A.
Or this one:
http://goo.gl/ugW9xP

@Richard Wheeler:

Bowing? He bent down to look the old guy in the eyes. BHO appears almost a foot taller than R.C.

excuses,, excuses. I’m about a foot taller than my wife and I don’t bend down to look her in the eye. My eyeballs move upward, downward and side to side. I just know when you were talking with one of the Marines that was in your platoon, or whatever, was shorter than you that you bowed down to be eyeball to eyeball with him. But obam-me needs all the love and affection you wish to bestow upon him and I hope he doesn’t hurt his back from Curtsying to Castro.

@Richard Wheeler:

: Bowing? He bent down to look the old guy in the eyes. BHO appears almost a foot taller than R.C.

So you think Obama should bend down to Raul Castro just because he is old in spite of the many people Raul Castro (who was much more violent than his brother, Fidel) murdered?

Some logic excuse you have going for you there, RW. Did JFK ever bend down to any third world dictator just to be polite? I don’t think so. But JFK loved his nation. Can’t say the same for the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Seems Phillip is too cowardly to answer my questions. No surprise. Cowards are rampant in the Democrat Party.

@retire05: It has been established here retired that you can’t read. You posted the word ass and forgot about it.
I posted this and you can’t read it:

Mandela- beyond the image

I support all the Roman Catholic Church teachings, much as the bishops and Catholics like Newt who recognize Mandela for the positive things he did.

But I can support an abortion to save the life of the mother. My wife, were she ever to get pregnant again, would die. Her third pregnancy nearly resulted in her death as her body attacked itself. She would probably hold out to the very end, but the doctor said she would have congestive heart failure a lot earlier than 8 months into the pregnancy. (I may be hoping against all decency, but I trust in God that you and red team won’t use that to attack me.)

@PhillipMarlowe: RT and O5 -he and she- are a Senior’s tag team from La. and Tex.–nuf said.
They espouse a brand of “conservatism” that isn’t even popular among their fellow Conservatives here at F.A. Go figure

@PhillipMarlowe: 192

Liar. You did. Redteam had to correct you. You are becoming delusional.
More projection.
I did not say you typed the word ass. You just turned a blind eye to it.

As for Obama bowing, oh Lord, you really are in need of therapy and prayers.
Maybe an exorcism to rid yourself of the devil of hatred and bile.

You must not go to the site: whentostopdiggin.com. It is all about when you are in a hole and it is getting very deep, what to do next.

You did accuse Retire of using the word ass, I was the one that used the word. I corrected you and told you that. now you are lying and trying to deny it. After you answer Retire’s question, I’ll direct you specifically to the comment numbers where that happened.

@retire05: Retire do you get the feeling we are dealing with a 9 year old?

@PhillipMarlowe:

Mandela and Obama, they do have in common dark skin

Mandela has ‘dark’ skin? Not in the pictures I’ve seen.

@PhillipMarlowe: 208

For redteam and retired:

I’m not Catholic or racist.

@Redteam:
Sadly, this fits you red team, more than retired, although he is only a little bit above you on the scale:
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

@PhillipMarlowe:

I support all the Roman Catholic Church teachings, much as the bishops and Catholics like Newt who recognize Mandela for the positive things he did.

My questions were about traditional marriage and abortion. So, if you can’t say that you support traditional marriage and oppose abortion, and here is the kicker, refuse to vote for any politican that goes against Catholic teaching, then you are nothing more than a cafeteria Catholic and apostate.

BTW, Newt Gingrich does not form my basis of belief in the Catholic Church. For you to use him, and the U.S. Catholic Bishops, many who are not following the true teachings of Christ by anyone’s standards, is just a weasel way out.

Now, coward, do you want to answer my questions or are you going to continue to play your juvenile games?

@Richard Wheeler: Thanks Richard. I figured as much. Too bad that the guys don’t have any really heavy reasoning ability, much like the black knight from Monty Python and The Holy Grail.

@Redteam:

Retire do you get the feeling we are dealing with a 9 year old?

No, just a cowardly useful idiot, like so many that plague the Democrat Party.

much like the black knight from Monty Python and The Holy Grail.

Well, at least now we know where Phillip gets his political compass. From comedy.

@Richard Wheeler:

RT and O5 -he and she- are a Senior’s tag team from La. and Tex.–nuf said.

And RW(MQ) and PM are a Senior-infantile tag team from Ca and S.Africa(obviously)

@retire05: Your disrespect for the bishops and Cardinals matches your support for denying non white people any rights. Go back to the hell hole from where you came. I am done badgering words with witless worms and sexual degenerates.
But I’ll keep praying for you, and especially for your spouse and children. To have you as a lover or a father/parental figure would be like having Brian David Mitchell.

@PhillipMarlowe:” Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.” Then you should change your ways.

@PhillipMarlowe:

Your disrespect for the bishops and Cardinals matches your support for denying non white people any rights.

Respect is earned, not given just because of one’s cap. And as far as your claim that I want to deny “non” white people any rights, where do you get that? Do you even know what my heritage is, you dimwit?

@Redteam:

Notice how Phillip refuses to answer my questions? Being a cowardly useful idiot is no way to go through life.

@PhillipMarlowe:

Your disrespect for the bishops and Cardinals matches your support for denying non white people any rights.

I’ve seen no evidence from Retire of disrespect for her church. You are the one that refuses to answer questions of your faith for fear of showing your lack of a moral compass.

And this statement:

Go back to the hell hole from where you came. I am done badgering words with witless worms and sexual degenerates.

From the same weasel who said this:

My wife, were she ever to get pregnant again, would die. Her third pregnancy nearly resulted in her death as her body attacked itself. She would probably hold out to the very end, but the doctor said she would have congestive heart failure a lot earlier than 8 months into the pregnancy. (I may be hoping against all decency, but I trust in God that you and red team won’t use that to attack me.)

in an attempt to gain sympathy? You’re pathetic.

@retire05: You are wrong when you say one has to earn respect.
No.
By dying for us, Jesus gave us respect and the expectation that we all deserve from each other it until we do something to lose it.
You have wander so far from God, that you have forgotten that. So wrapped up in you bile towards black people and others that the devil’s whispering got you and drew you down his path of false supremacy, contempt and more hatred. I foolishly answered your questions but you seek to denigrate even more.
This quote comes to mind:
we lose our humanity if we are even willing to enter the arena of debate with those who seek to deny or underplay Nazi crimes.
Nazi crimes were based upon racism.

Goodbye.
I will venture back some day to see if you have mended your broken relationship with God.

God bless.

Same for you redteam

Retire, I find this humorous and typical of liberals. PM says:

I am done badgering words with witless worms and sexual degenerates.

almost immediately after saying this:

(I may be hoping against all decency, but I trust in God that you and red team won’t use that to attack me.)

So he has no problem hoping that us (witless worms and sexual degenerates) are decent enough not to discuss his wife’s condition. Wonder what decency class he would put himself into?

@PhillipMarlowe: I think you’ve run a wheel off there Philip

You have wander so far from God, that you have forgotten that. So wrapped up in you bile towards black people

how about one of your ‘links’ to where Retire displayed bile towards black people. And then:

debate with those who seek to deny or underplay Nazi crimes.

when and where did that come up?
Are you on crack? Amphetamines?

@PhillipMarlowe:

: You are wrong when you say one has to earn respect.
No.
By dying for us, Jesus gave us respect and the expectation that we all deserve from each other it until we do something to lose it.

Ummmm, let me see: did allowing His body to be nailed to a cross and to die, passing from His mortal life, earn the respect He now should have from all of us? If earning respect was not expected, why did Christ go so far?

And doctrine teaches He died for our sins, not because He “respected” mankind. One of His own apostles was a tax man, who Christ did not have respect for, but had a change of heart, joining in with Christ to preach the Gospel. See, that respect that Christ gave to his disciple was EARNED.

Do you think God respects you when you go into the voting booth and vote for someone who supports sodomists and the killing of the unborn? Matthew 7:16.

@PhillipMarlowe:

I will venture back some day to see if you have mended your broken relationship with God.

some day? as in about 10 minutes? You won’t be missed.

@Redteam:

Obviously, Phillip seems to think that he is capable of knowing of someone else’s relationship with God.

@retire05: what would that be, a psychic ?

@Redteam:

More like a psychotic.

Something well articulated for the hypocrites who employ a racial double-standard to mull over.

Mandela and the Question of Violence
.

Offered the chance to be free by the avowed white supremacist P.W. Botha if he would renounce violence, Mandela replied, “Let him renounce violence.” Americans should understand this. Violent resistance to tyranny, violent defense of one’s body, is not simply a political strategy in our country, it is taken as a basic human right. Our own revolution was purchased with the blood of 22,000 nascent American dead. Dissenters were tarred and feathered. American independence and American power has never rested on nonviolence, but on the willingness to do great—at times existential—violence.

Perhaps we would argue that Malcolm X, Mandela, and King were wrong, and that states should be immune to ethics of nonviolence. But even our rhetoric toward freedom movements which employ violence is inconsistent. Mandela and the ANC were “terrorists.” The Hungarian revolutionaries of 1956, the Northern Alliance opposing the Taliban, the Libyans opposing Gaddafi were “freedom fighters.”
….
In the shadow of our conversation, one sees a constant, indefatigable specter which has dogged us from birth. For the most of American history, very few of our institutions believed that black people were entitled to the rights of other Americans. Included in this is the right of self-defense. Nonviolence worked because it conceded that right in the pursuit of other rights. But one should never lose sight of the precise reasons why America preaches nonviolence to some people while urging other people to arms.

Jimmy Baldwin knew:

The real reason that nonviolence is considered to be a virtue in Negroes—I am not speaking now of its racial value, another matter altogether—is that white men do not want their lives, their self-image, or their property threatened. One wishes they would say so more often.

Ta-Nehisi Coates? Really, Tom?

Coates is a racialist acorn who didn’t fall far from that Black Panther tree.

Yeah, his useless father, who never worked, was a Black Panther.

Why don’t you just quote Louis Farrakhan?

@Tom: There is little to nothing worth commenting on your racist soliloquy.

Perhaps we would argue that Malcolm X, Mandela, and King were wrong,

why would we put those three in the same sentence. Mandela was extremely violent, Malcolm X mildly violent and King Non Violent. There is little resemblance of their objective’s. Malcolm to overthrow the gov. Mandela to overthrow the government and legal ownership of land, King, to get equal rights.

But even our rhetoric toward freedom movements which employ violence is inconsistent. Mandela and the ANC were “terrorists.” The Hungarian revolutionaries of 1956, the Northern Alliance opposing the Taliban, the Libyans opposing Gaddafi were “freedom fighters.”

terrorists, Mandela for example used violence against civilians as a tool. The Hungarian revolutionaries took military type actions against government military troops, same as Libyan freedom fighters. The Taliban conducted operations against civilians. There is quite a difference in attempting to overthrow a tyranical government by taking actions against those troops vs killing civilians in acts to steal their property. I hope you see the difference.

I, as Retire says, don’t really need the Black Panther philosophy for guidance.

@retire05:

How predictable. As we know well, you don’t have the curiosity, critical thinking, empathy, or frankly, the intellectual firepower to respond substantively to something like this. So you go with your default mode of attacking the character of the author, and – irrelevantly – his father, because apparently your endless labyrinth of biases includes one on parentage (you must be an admirer of North Korea’s three generations of punishment policy). If you were younger, I might include a friendly warning of the dangers of ossifying into a close-minded, bitter, racist, but I fear that ship sailed long ago.

@Redteam:

why would we put those three in the same sentence.

Here’s an idea. Try reading the entire article!

@Redteam:

Mandela for example used violence against civilians as a tool.

And Tories were tarred and feathered in the colonies during the Revolution. And the allies systematically firebombed German cities and killed tens of thousands of civillians. And Truman dropped two atomic bombs on Japan and killed hundreds of thousands of civilians. So are Washington, Roosevelt, Churchill, Eisenhower and Truman “terrorists”? That’s the double-standard. Apparently, Mandela and his countrymen should have just kept taking it indefinitely from the racist regime until they finally decided to hand him power. You and your ilk obviously hold Mandela (and MLK) to a different standard. The question is why?

@Tom:

You mean other than being a declared war?

@drjohn:

And Al Queda declared war on the United States prior to 9/11. So by your logic, Al Queda are not terrorists.

@Tom:

You said that, not me.

@Tom:

There used to be a War on Terror before some a-hole President said it was over and our troops stopped dying.

They have stopped getting killed, right?

Oh wait, those goddam ROE’s Obama has handed down is getting troops killed at an alarming rate. We don’t want to offend the Taliban. They’re not our enemy.

@drjohn:

Another non-response response from Dr John. Go figure. You remind me of a Raymond Chandler quote: You milk easy, but you give pretty thin milk.