As Scandalpalooza rolls on, Jonah Goldberg wrote about this particular gem on how the Democrats are responding to the IRS scandals
So the @GOP has FOIAed the IRS. How original. And political. So much for a bipartisan inquiry. Typical #GOPOverreach
— Brad Woodhouse (@woodhouseb) May 22, 2013
with an analysis that wasn’t too different from my own reaction when I read it:
“I keep staring at this tweet like one of those posters with the hidden flying saucer in it. Maybe if I just relax my eyes enough, the outlines of his argument will come through?”
I don’t need elaborate on Woodhouse’s comment to illustrate the stupidity of it, but I’m more concerned about how the term “overreach” is allowed to be used here. I’m also at a loss over how the Republicans have failed to use such an obvious deflection when talking to any of the White House’s Public Relations staffers, aka “journalists”. When posed the challenge of Republican “overreach” there is a simple response:
“What would an appropriate level of ‘reach’ be?”
Image courtesy of The People’s Cube
It’s a simple question, and it completely deflates the leftist defense of the president. Overreach is easy for leftists to call for, invoking how the GOP attacked President Clinton back in the 90’s. Yes, the GOP was correct to attack the president for lying under oath but I think they got a bit too consumed by the attack itself and put too much energy into it. There’s more to say on the Clinton/Lewinsky scandals, but it’s too much of an aside to go into here.
Getting back on topic, how does one throw out the notion that one side has gone too far without establishing how far one should have gone in the first place? With all of the scandals that have come down lately I’ll just focus on the one that is most near and dear to me – the IRS targeting Tea Party groups. We all know that the IRS made an effort to target non-profit groups with Tea Party sounding names and subjected them to inappropriate levels of scrutiny. At the time of this post we’ve seen a few weeks pass since this scandal broke, and what has been resolved so far? We’ve had hearings, angry accusations, and the “firing” (In DC terms that would mean prematurely ending an executive’s work detail) of an agency head. And that’s it. The root of the problem hasn’t been uncovered, some IRS employees have been given paid vacations (paid leave pending further investigation), and absolutely no reason to believe that the malevolence we have seen has stopped, nor that it will not be repeated. Even though I’ve lived in the Washington, DC area for 14 years now and have been basically working for the government under various contractors for nearly a decade, I still think of things in terms of how they are handled in the private sector, or for any DC insiders reading this, what is known to most Americans as “reality”. Had a scandal like this broken in any company I’ve worked for (government contracting or not) here is how things generally go down:
Day 1: Employees within the organization have engaged in unethical, and possibly illegal behavior. Any employees seen to be directly involved are immediately questioned. Given the scope and magnitude of the problem IT staffers are called in to gather records of any e-mails, files, call records, etc. that may have pertained to the situation. Any employees who have either admitted to, or have evidence to support wrongdoing, are fired. Any who are responsible and do not come forward know that they will also face termination, as well as potential legal liability if they choose to hide their role in any such operation. Management immediately charges staffers to draft procedures and enact policies to ensure that such abuses will never happen again. If they fail to do so the company will lose all credibility, and will be the subject of lawsuits and, if public, will watch a massive sell off of those who chose to willingly invest in said company.
Day 2: There is no day 2, at least in terms of investigation. Yes, it may go on longer depending on the magnitude or how high up the scandal goes. Or it may get similar blackout treatment if the company is large enough and those responsible at the top donate enough to the proper political campaigns and/or have enough friends among elected officials who might also be implicated (as in the financial crisis of 2008), but for the most part even the larger organizations I worked for dealt with wrongdoing pretty quickly. We had to – the accountability and potential liability for failing to do so was just too great. Any company that fails to show respect for its customers and stakeholders doesn’t stay in business very long.
This is also why we see such inaction at the federal government level – there is no accountability, and certainly no respect for the citizens our “public servants” are supposed to serve. The unions protect the IRS workers from any real accountability to the public, which should be raising another uncomfortable question of why public sector unions should even exist in the first place.
This also raises uncomfortable questions of how too many leftists consider this issue resolved and something that we should move on from, when we should ask:
- Have we fully identified the cause of the problem?
- Have all guilty parties been identified and are being appropriately disciplined?
- Do we have assurances that such transgressions will never happen again?
My guess is, that in the end the answer will be that none of these questions will get fully answered, because our government and media don’t feel respect and accountability to those who they claim to serve. The Conservasphere will keep beating the drums, the mainstream press will allow the story to gradually wither on the vine, and eventually this scandal will disappear without any meaningful action or change. If you don’t believe me then tell me what outcome, aside from one mass murderer going to jail, came from the Kermit Gosnell story? Which is a shame, because the real story behind the IRS scandal, and all of the scandals is our culture in Washington that allows these scandals to happen. A recent article in The American Thinker pointed out that even though there is no smoking gun pointing to a direct order from President Obama for the IRS to target Tea Party groups, there was never a direct order from Hitler ordering the Holocaust, either.
Relax, lefties. I’m not comparing the president to Hitler. I’m not suggesting that Tea Party members are going to be rounded up an murdered. The point is that the culture of hate and divisiveness that was necessary to get the president re-elected might not be a very effective way to govern, and does not create a positive culture among our elected officials and the bureaucracies that they oversee. And as much as I hate to end this post on such a negative note, I just don’t see anything constructive or positive coming out of the ashes of the IRS scandal, or any of the other scandals, for that matter.
OK, maybe one thing. With any luck as punishment for Windows Vista and Windows 8, maybe Microsoft will be forced to hire Lois Lerner.
Cross posted from Brother Bob’s Blog
“So the @GOP has FOIAed the IRS. How original. And political. So much for a bipartisan inquiry. Typical #GOPOverreach”
Brother Bob,
Above you mention the fact that you will not compare the President to Hitler. Well, i will. The typical garbage that is the tweet above that comes form lefty operatives is in fact normal coming from a media propaganda industry in lockstep with this President and his lackeys. That is cold hard fact I’m afraid.
One only has to watch clown puppet Carney wiggle and squirm as he refuses to answer and/or openly lies as to any question put to him. But one cannot be surprised by this. After all, caught in a scandal, the participants lie and in these cases the Media is right there for them. Yet, as in Hitler’s first quote below, the ends justify the means and in his third quote below, at least in my mind one can see exactly the course that is and has been taken by not only this President and his administration, but in fact far too many politicians and entrenched bureaucrats for far too long now.
“It is not truth that matters, but victory.”
“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed. Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.”
“All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach.”
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don’t think.
By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise.
I happen to believe Obama does in fact believe and practice the above three quotes. Every bit of evidence points to that. You noted: ” A recent article in The American Thinker pointed out that even though there is no smoking gun pointing to a direct order from President Obama for the IRS to target Tea Party groups, there was never a direct order from Hitler ordering the Holocaust, either.”
Well guess what, whether he ordered it or not everything going on now is on this President’s watch and he is responsible! Ooops! I mean a leader would hold himself responsible but we all know this is not a leader! What I’m basically getting at is now things are beginning to come into the open, the Presdient, his allies and unfortunately many from the so called right are more than happy to endorse the lies as they believe in the mantra as quoted above.
This President knows only one thing LIE! In turn he in effect endorses such and as what he stands for is detrimental to the well being of this country, it is wrong! The sad part is because of this, we probably will not get to the bottom of it all and he’ll skate because politicians in general regard the truth as their Kryptonite.
It isn’t ”over reach,” when we STILL, more than 7 months later, don’t know what happened on the night of the Benghazi attack.
The talking point du jour from the Left is to use the term, ”over reach,” in regard all of Republican follow-through of any of Obama’s scandals.
But follow-through is vital.
On Benghazi.
On the IRS.
On the NSA.
On ObamaCare.
On all of them.
OK. So we say Edward Snowden is a hero because he exposed the criminal violations and infringements of our Constitutional rights (4th) by Barack Hussein Obama, Joseph Biden, George W. Bush, and many, many others including judges and congressmen who have been acting in complete and total violation of the constitution with their illegal, unjust and unrighteous rulings and actions.
Now here’s the result from Edward Snowden’s whistle-blowing to tell US the truth:
“Obama administration sees rare bipartisan support for charging National Security Agency contractor, Edward Snowden, under the Espionage Act… ” — FoxNews headline June 22, 2013.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/22/capitol-hill-voices-bipartisan-support-for-formal-charges-against-snowden/
Here’s what WE need to do:
Insist that Obama, et. al., be criminally charged, arrested, impeached, removed and incarcerated in federal prison for 20 years (or Guantanamo). The violations of our constitution by these bad actors are NOT trivial. Others involve the violations of their sworn oath to serve and protect our Constitution; for example, Obama’s refusal to support and defend the DOM (Defense of Marriage Act), part of the constitution he personally has sworn to uphold. Obama has decided that it is unconstitutional (he’s now a Supreme Court judge???) and directed his attorney general (guess who?? Eric Holder???) not to defend DOMA. Can there be anything more sinister and defiant, unlawful and criminal?
OK. So they think Snowden is a spy. Let’s see the arrest warrants for Obama, Biden, Eric Holder, the FBI director, the IRS persons involved in what in Nixon’s day were referred to as the 2nd article of impeachment. Fortunately, a vast majority of people in the U.S. recognize and shun what Obama has done and is doing. It is time to force Obama out with the verve we should have used to force Hitler out.
If we don’t want another Hitler, insist that all of this socialistic push be stopped and the Utah data plant be shut down! The enormity of the Utah data plant does not bode well for our future (or for what our future holds) and expresses clearly the very sinister plans for the future the Obama government has. Act now! Protest. Complain. Do random peaceful defiance to thwart implementation of NSA illegal activities, of the Affordable Health Care Act (affordable?) and Immigration Legislation that does not secure our border first (realize there are laws on the books that Obama is illegally and criminally ignoring. Read the 4th Amendment and see that it is not complex; it is not in legalese, it plain to read and understand. There is no additional authority granted for the government to violate its simple textual meaning. None.
IMPORTANT NOTE: No doubt you are aware that city governments CANNOT change state law. States and territories CANNOT change federal law. And judges, congressmen, the President, nor anyone else CANNOT change the Constitution without following the process defined by the Constitution for amending, adding to or removing from the Constitution. No exceptions. If judges rule contrary to the Constitution, their rulings are null and void. The people (all citizens) have the power.
Here’s an example of the kind of crap we get from publications and broadcasts:
“The leaks have sparked national and international debates about the secret powers of the NSA to infringe on the privacy of Americans and foreigners. Officials from President Obama on down have said they welcome the opportunity to explain the importance of the programs and the safeguards they say are built into them. Skeptics, including some in Congress, have said the NSA has assumed the power to soak up data about Americans that was never intended under the law.”
The above is from: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-charges-snowden-with-espionage/2013/06/21/507497d8-dab1-11e2-a016-92547bf094cc_print.html
According to our Constitution, THERE ARE NO NSA POWERS TO INFRINGE ON OUR PRIVACY. NONE. NONE. In fact, ANYONE, including Obama, that infringes on our 4th Amendment rights is guilty of a high crime and treason (subversion). The rights of Blacks to equal treatment is also guaranteed by the Constitution. Would Obama violate that right? Impeach Obama.
The left also cannot answer, “What Tax would be too high? Give me a number, where do you draw a line?”
@Nan G:
Maybe Curt will pick this up and run with it here on FA:
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-sent-46378040-refunds-23994-unauthorized-aliens-1-atlanta-address
And the report itself (which is from 2012, so why haven’t we heard about this before?)
http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2012reports/201242081fr.pdf
A quick perusal of the reports claims that we paid tax refunds of over $86 MILLION to illegal immigrants which make up the bulk of those using ITIN numbers.
What level of scrutiny should be deemed appropriate, when the name of an organization strongly suggests it has a political purpose, and when organizations having such a primary purpose are specifically disqualified by law for the tax exempt status being applied for?
The IRS’s enforcement budget has been cut. Under such circumstances—assuming you’re not totally incompetent—you apply limited resources where you believe non-compliance with the law is most likely. Names on applications that suggested a political purpose were like red flags. Would you expect them to be ignored?
Mitch McConnell Realizes IRS Scandal Is Over
The entire scandal is bogus.
Greg, I take it then that you are for profiling Muslims? After all, they have shown that they are most likely to be involved in a terror attack. Glad that we can finally stop patting down Whitey at TSA.
And now we can start profiling Blacks, because they seem to be more prone to commit gun violence and they commit more crimes against blacks any any other color person.
Whew, finally some sanity!
I would point out that if you are going to pick out political PACs then, unless you are prepared to say that liberals don’t commit crimes, shouldn’t they be focusing on both Liberal and Conservative PACs – Say, all that voter fraud, was that a Left or Right group?
@Rob in Katy, #8:
Unless a case can be made that tax exempt status applications were somehow being profiled based on their apparent race, religion, or ethnicity, I fail to see how any of that is even remotely related.
The entire issue was whether or not organizations were primarily political. If they had names that suggested they probably were, it stands to reason that they were likely going to a closer look. I would fully expect a name like Tea Party Patriots for the American Way to get far more attention than The Greater Indianapolis Ladies’ Rose-growers Association.
“The entire issue was whether or not organizations were primarily political”, they were targeted specifically base on their conservative values, not political, just conservative – They have admitted that, where the frank have you been. If you cannot be truthful, there is no point acknowledging anything you post. Oh, in case you were wondering – I did just say, “You lie!”
@Rob in Katy, #10:
Really? Have they? I haven’t seen any admission that groups were targeted specifically because of their conservative values. I’ve only heard that claim repeatedly made by conservatives.
My conclusion is that groups were targeted specifically because they appeared to be political. The vast majority of Tea Party groups were undeniably political, with agendas that directly translated into a particular partisan orientation. What the IRS admitted doing was taking a closer look at groups branded with Tea Party-related names. Given their limited resources, that’s exactly what they should have been doing.
I picked up on that. In case you were wondering, I consider the entire republican propaganda campaign to be built on misrepresentations, purposeful omissions, intentional deceptions, and flat out lies. I guess that makes things even.
@joetote: I agree that the methodology is similar, and I intentionally try to avoid the Hitler comparison – look how hard the MSM tries to lump us in with the Larouchies who show up at Tea Party rallies with their Obama/Hitler signs. Bringing in the Hitler comparison makes most people tune out, but your points are fair ones.
@NanG: You are right. We need to go on the offensive. Stay tuned; I have a topic I’ve been kicking around for a while now and really need to finally write.
@retire05: Great point, and we need to go farther and audit our entire government. Check my post from a few years ago about solutions for fixing our federal government and economy
@Rob in Katy: Your line of thinking about “how much” is a fun way to annoy leftists trying to debate their points. My favorite is using this logic on Global Warm Mongers
@Greg: A left wing blog’s twisting someone’s words is not evidence that the scandal is over. Even without the smoking gun, an army of leftists who donate heavily to Obama’s causes decide to attack a group that the president has told them to hate should at least be cause for concern. Check comment #1 for some elaboration. And also keep in mind, watching the government be abusive is fun when it’s toward people you hate personally, but it is foolish to assume that it won’t eventually turn toward you.
I mean, if you can believe the Inspector General under this administration: http://articles.latimes.com/2013/may/23/news/la-pn-irs-replaces-head-of-division-targeted-conservatives-20130523
or those Tea Partiers at ABC news: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/irs-admits-targeting-conservative-groups/story?id=19151646
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-05-10/politics/39158606_1_irs-official-tax-exempt-status-tax-exempt-groups
Even the daily show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snTXAxqs-is
Just stop, Greg, just stop!
@Rob in Katy:
I don’t see evidence or an admission in any of those articles or videos that the IRS was targeting Tea Party groups because of their conservative values. That’s only how the stories are being played. They were targeted because their names correctly suggested they were political. An organization that is primarily political doesn’t qualify for the tax exempt status they were seeking.
This critical distinction shouldn’t be especially difficult to grasp—provided, of course, one isn’t disinclined to see it.
I don’t know why an apology was issued by the IRS without clearly specifying what the apology is for—namely, some low-level mishandling of a few cases.
In my opinion the GOP owes the various grassroots Tea Party organizations a far more serious apology, for stealing their identity to use in the most blatantly political way possible, and then for totally screwing up their presidential bid in spite of it. Where’s the outrage?
Oh, sorry, here is the White House spokesman :
Done?
The title accompanying that video should provide a clue. Obama hasn’t apologized for anything connected with the IRS issue. Don’t hold your breath.
What amazes me is that I have know people that can look me right in the eyes and tell me that there is a difference between “not telling the truth” and “lying”, not sure how they justified that, but somewhere in their head, they did. There all also those that will go to great lengths to prove that 2+2=5, but they cheat and divide by zero, so it really doesn’t matter how you define “is” it is lying. I think that anyone that says they don’t know that the IRS specifically targeted Conservative groups and used the power of government for oppression of opposing views is deluding hisself or … ok, i really give up at this point!
@Greg:
The IRS also targeted groups that had “Patriot” or “Constitution” in their names, Greggie. Are you telling us that you believe that “Patriot” and “Constitution” are only representative of the conservative, smaller government movement? Are you finally admitting that those two words can no longer apply to anyone on the left?
So you think that groups who seek 501(c)3 & 4 exemptions should be highly scrutinized. Does that apply to MediaMatters which holds a 501(c)4 exemption although it is only political and only left wing?
So while the IRS has time to harass patriot and Constitution groups, it doesn’t seem to have time to do due diligence when it comes to giving out ITINs and sending millions of taxpayer dollars in refunds to ONE address in Atlanta. Oh, that’s right; the IG report says that the safeguard processes that were put into place to prevent people from getting ITINs/refunds that were not even legal residents was discarded in April, 2010. Ummmm?
@Greg:
You have to have really gone off that lemming cliff if you don’t understand what the IRS was doing. Why do you think Lois Lerner took the 5th? But by your standards, anyone with “Patriot” or “Constitution” in their organizational name should be given extra scrutiny.
@retire05, #19:
It’s an effective legal way to tell a Congressman to f–k off. If they’ve got evidence against her they can present it. Apparently they don’t, but they’ve effectively destroyed her career anyway. If I were her, I wouldn’t give them the time of day.
They were applying for a tax exempt status that’s contingent on being an organization that isn’t primarily political, weren’t they? Tea Party organizations tend to have a political agenda. So, yes. In a situation where you have limited resources for review, you choose for review those cases that have an obvious characteristic that seems relevant to what you’re charged to be on the lookout for. The alternative would be to select cases for review at random, which isn’t a particularly effective use of limited time and manpower.
@Greg:
Kind of reminds us of the accusations about Romney being a tax evader that you parroted. Have you guys found any evidence yet?
@Greg:
If Lerner has any evidence of her innocence, she can present it. Oh right, she chose not to while under oath. How convenient.
No, Lerner destroyed her own career by 1) engaging in this scandal in the first place, 2) copping an attitude when questioned about it before Congress, and 3) refusing to answer any questions even though she’s obligated to be held accountable. I’m sure you demanded a lot of item #3 when a Republican was in the White House. My, how things change.
Greg seems to be on the last lib poster showing up here regularly, and he’s frustrated. While he may randomly bring up a valid point from time to time, the fact remains the same: he’s frustrated and he’s digging.
Sure, there are other lenses that we should view the scandals through to retain some measure of objectivity. But many, many people were and are concerned with the Obama regime — that it captured the minds of those swayed by pop-culture, got the WH, and is now doing things that even there “supporters” don’t want and wouldn’t support. In turn, the supporters are in denial . . . serious denial.
Greg is in serious denial that Obama and is just another bad President, and this another bad administration, and not worthy of praise.
The stickers, the Noble Prize, the promises . . . oldest trick in the book.
Perhaps it’s time for the Gregs of the country to sit down and do some serious soul searching, rather than advocating for the most corrupt and tyrannical WH we’ve seen in our lifetimes?
I have “Hope” in a USA that can’t be hijacked by bumperstickers and SNL.
@Brother Bob:
Brother Bob,
I realize what you are saying as to avoiding the comparison, but one only needs to look at history for context as to where I’m going. When Hitler was elected all those years ago, the “people” bought into the lies and deceit just as they did with the current resident of the White house> Hitler rode in on a wave created by the fact the country was in shambles. He used the despair of poverty and so forth to his advantage as have so many other despots in our time.
Hiltler’s true motives were there for all to see long before he was elected as were Obama’s if anyone had done their homework on this clown. His anti-Semite feelings were there also as were Obama’s (I have said here before I truly believe with all my heart this President despises the Jews, again my feelings. One does not have to agree). And no, I m not comparing Obama to Hitler as to the “Final Solution”. I am comparing their methods and in effect who or what they were and are. The comparisons if one really looks are stunning.
There are two other quotes that have always stood out for me from Hitler and again, if one had looked into Obama’s history at all and in turn put them with his actions today, they could see the comparison easily. The first, I got from Political Pistachio a while ago, but have in fact seen long ago. I have maintained for some time that Obama is a Socialist and in fact against everything we stand for. When one reads the quote below and in turn if they have read his words and witnessed his actions, the comparison is solid.
“We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” –Adolf Hitler, Quoted in John Toland, “Adolf Hitler”, p224.
As to indoctrination and propaganda, Obama ranks right up there. His and his lackey’s desperately trying to change history and the teaching of it and our basic ideals (and of course this goes back much further than Obama) has given us and electorate that has it’s head so far up it’s collective ass that this country now is at the edge of the abyss. The quote below again compares favorably with our friend Obama.
“When an opponent declares,
‘I will not come over to your side.’
I calmly say, ‘Your child belongs to us already…
What are you? You will pass on.
Your descendants, however,
now stand in the new camp.
In a short time they will know nothing
else but this new community.'” — Adolf Hitler
Obama said he will change America. He and his predecessors have in fact indoctrinated far too many with their vile beliefs and in turn now stand on the brink of destroying everything we have accomplished as the greatest nation ever. The comparison is apt and I know you appreciate where I’m coming from. But let’s remember one thing. A Hitler comparison, while people tent to tune out is valid, as would be a comparison to Krueschev (“we will bury you. We will destroy you from within). Can one say Obama is not in fact following that course? There are so many one could use to illustrate my point.
while I am also sometimes wary of using the comparison, I feel the truth must win out in any way possible and like it or not, truth can be a cold slap in the face. I unfortunately sometimes prefer the in your face method as not much else seems to work. 🙂
I was under the impression that Lois Lerner tried to invoke the 5th AFTER testifying AND answering a couple of question, thus nullifying her right to invoke it.
She may be called back.
Our Congress is full of cowards who might bluster for the cameras but don’t really want to be seen to be ”bullying a girl.”
@tops116, #22:
Guilty until proven innocent may be the way your typical witch hunter’s thinking goes. Fortunately, that isn’t the way the American legal system works. There’s no evidence of the sort of horrendous IRS scandal republicans would like to pin on the White House, let alone evidence of a White House connection. If they had it, they would have presented it.
These guys should be required to wear long floppy shoes and bulbous red noses, to make it easier for inattentive voters to identify them as clowns.
When you take the Fifth Amendment, you’re availing yourself of a fundamental Constitutional right. No American citizen can be compelled to bear witness against himself or herself, and no American citizen is required to establish any other qualification to be eligible for that right.
@Greg:
For real? After what you said about Romney and his taxes? The hypocrisy is astounding!
@another vet: Issa’s( my congressional rep.) got nothing and he knows it.
3 Years Reserve Thanks for your service RW
@Richard Wheeler: Any regrets about not finishing your 20?
@Richard Wheeler:
That’s what the purpose of the investigation is for. As I stated before, nothing is going to come of any of these investigations even if there is solid proof of wrongdoing. Unless there is a foreign policy crisis, Obama will be a lame duck pretty soon just like most of his predecessors have been during their second terms. The main point was that Greg uses the guilty until proven innocent rant against those who don’t have his political views as exemplified by his accusations against Romney but then wants to apply the principle of innocent until proven guilty for those on the left. It’s pure hypocrisy. Agree or not? The standard should be the same for everyone regardless of political views. I’m sure that was the intent of our Founders.
@another vet: Yes. Although I’ve stayed involved for over 40—-once a Marine
Innocent until proven guilty. Too many false accusations are flung around the internet.
“a lie can travel halfway around the globe while the truth is putting on it’s shoes.” Mark Twain
@Greg
Gee Greg, if there is ‘no evidence’ why would the head of the IRS resign over it and admit he “ was aware employees were targeting conservative groups in May 2012”.
And why would the President say this after receiving that resignation?
If the President himself wants to ‘make sure this doesn’t happen again’ it’s kind of implied that it *did* take place, isn’t it?
Actually Greg, “Investigative hearings share some of the characteristics of legislative and oversight hearings. The difference lies in Congress’s stated determination to investigate, usually when there is a suspicion of wrongdoing on the part of public officials acting in their official capacity…”
So it’s not a trial presenting evidence, it’s a hearing to gather evidence – or find out if there is evidence.
As far as what they are ‘allowed’ to request, according to the Congressional Research Service: “ A congressional committee is a creation of its parent House and only has the power to inquire into matters within the scope of the authority that has been delegated to it by that body. Thus, the enabling rule or resolution which gives the committee life is the charter which defines the grant and limitations of the committee’s power (Investigative Oversight: An introduction to the Law, Practice and Procedure of Congressional Inquiry – Congressional Research Service 95-464)
OK, so what does the resolution regarding the IRS investigation set out as its authority?
Kinda seems like that just might include an IRS official ‘splainin just exactly what was going on…not exactly an ‘over-reach’ of authority as the lib/progressive talking points are trying to hand-wave it away.
Ahh, would that you were so adamant about a strict, fundamental interpretation of certain other Constitutional Rights! The Second would be a nice inclusion on that list, especially the part about not needing to establish any other qualification to be eligible for that right!
Just to clarify a bit, according to the Cornell University Law School: ”The Fifth Amendment protects criminal defendants from having to testify if they may incriminate themselves through the testimony. A witness may “plead the Fifth” and not answer if the witness believes answering the question may be self-incriminatory.”
So, if Ms. Lerner (as she asserted) had done nothing wrong, and as you assert, there is no evidence of anything wrong or untoward taking place (despite the AG, FBI and Congress thinking otherwise)…just what possible incrimination could there have been?
@Richard Wheeler: I know quite a few folks who kicked themselves for not going in the Guard or Reserve to finish their 20 after they came back from VN so you’re not alone.
@Jay: Excellent use of FACTS.
I think probably we aren’t going to be seeing to much more from Issa on the IRS today June 24th that the IRS screening was pretty broad. Yes Tea Party was targeted but also such lefty groups as had “occupy” and “progressive” Issa attempted to keep this from becoming public knowledge.
http://www.boston.com/business/personal-finance/taxes/2013/06/24/new-irs-chief-inappropriate-screening-was-broader/EouWCeb1D4IhdADJyJr5yO/story.html
Remember the “scandal” of Menemdez and the underage Dominican hookers? This IRS is looking like another right wing frame up. So how does it feel to keep getting scammed?
@another vet, #27:
Mr. Romney wasn’t called in before Congressional investigators and required to answer questions under oath. Mr. Romney wandered around the country making unfounded allegations about the President. He was a politician engaging in a campaign, so I suppose he was completely within his rights to do that. If you’re going to throw punches like that, however, you’d best expect that your opponent will throw a few back.
It still ticks me off that his guy was subject to a lower effective tax rate on annual income of $23 million than the average middle class American is subject to. Any political strategist who didn’t see that as a serious vulnerability really ought to be out looking for a different line of work.
@John: Where is the “frame up” coming in? When did Lois Lerner become a conservative?
@Greg: OK, I’ll bite – what unfounded allegations? Unlike the ones unfounded allegations thrown out by Harry Reid, who also happens to be a known pederast.
@Jay, #32:
Well golly, I’m sure I really don’t know. And neither do the members of the republican fishing expedition. That must be really annoying.
Here’s a suggestion: If they’ve got any actionable evidence of any wrongdoing, they should put it all together and present it. Otherwise they should pack up their clown car and go off in search of their next Big Production—which I’m pretty sure will pop up before this one totally loses traction.
Sorry about the sarcasm, but these guys are REALLY beginning to tick me off. I wonder if they might want to investigate something of genuine interest? How about the way Mitch McConnell seems to bag hefty campaign contributions from industries that have a particular interest in seeing certain bills end in death-by-filibuster? It should be a comparitively easy task, since much of the groundwork has already been done by independent investigators, who have thoughtfully summarized it in a PDF document. The timing of contributions and donor-favorable actions is occasionally a wonder to behold.
Maybe we could “bug his office” to collect more evidence? That can apparently be accomplished by standing outside his door in the hallway.
@Greg: “Sorry about the sarcasm.” Understandable. It’s now known IRS was investigating progressive groups as well. Will my Congressman Issa, now knowing he can’t pin Obama with Conservative witch hunt tag, pick up his marbles and slink off?
Or will he do what he’s paid to do. Go after this over the top agency,bi-partisan guns blazing,chips fall where they may. 50/50
@Greg: Specifically, what crime(s) did Romney accuse Obama of committing?
Mitt Romney, September 12, 2012:
To which Reince Priebus publicly responded, via Twitter:
That’s a good enough excuse for taking the gloves off, in my humble opinion. Particularly when the Romney campaign—upon learning of the death of Ambassador Stevens—frantically backpedaled, but then immediately reversed course again and doubled down rather than backing off. From that point on, I applauded every straight-running torpedo the Obama campaign launched.
@Greg: I take it then you have no evidence of Romney accusing Obama of a criminal act. The Benghazi attack occurred well AFTER the tax accusations. Using your excuse, Romney was justified in taking the gloves off.
@Richard Wheeler:
http://www.boston.com/business/personal-finance/taxes/2013/06/24/new-irs-chief-inappropriate-screening-was-broader/EouWCeb1D4IhdADJyJr5yO/story.html
And what constitutes “some?” 50% of the 298 cases? 30%? Three groups out of 298? Seems if the Democrat staff at the Ways and Means Committee had a good, strong number of liberal groups out of that 298, they would have been shouting to the roof tops, not saying “some.”
Hmmm. Yet you were so adamant there was ‘no evidence’. So I guess you’re saying you actually have no evidence about whether or not there is any evidence.
If she did nothing wrong (thus by definition, no evidence of wrongdoing) she should have stopped at that statement.
Taking the Fifth indicates (or at least strongly implies) there *is* evidence of wrongdoing and that if she provided the requested testimony regarding what she did/knew, that testimony would likely result in criminal charges, therefore she invoked her right against self-incrimination to avoid having charges filed.
As the pro-NSA spying folks keep telling us, “If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear!”
@Greg: #41: So what was wrong or inaccurate about those statements? Shouldn’t a “journalist” have been asking these questions instead?
Oh my, my my! The IG says that claims that the IRS also went after progressive groups is… FALSE!
“Our audit did not find evidence that the IRS used the ‘progressives’ identifier as selection criteria for potential political cases between May 2010 and May 2012,” George wrote in the letter obtained by The Hill.
The inspector general also stressed that 100 percent of the groups with “Tea Party,” “patriots” and “9/12” in their name were flagged for extra attention.
Wow, 100% of Tea Party Groups were targeted, that is roughly the same percentage as Nazis vs. Jews…nothing to see, move along, move along.
Source:
http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/domestic-taxes/308131-ig-liberal-groups-not-targeted-like-tea-party