Desiline Victor- sorry to burst the happy bubble but…

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d victor

Desiline Victor was one of the props used by Barack Obama in his State of the Union Address. She has been widely celebrated in the press largely because she waited three hours to vote for Obama.

Daily Mail

A 102-year-old woman has been chosen to sit next to Michelle Obama at the annual State of the Union address in Washington.

Desaline Victor, a naturalized U.S citizen from Miami, Florida, waited for more than three hours to cast her ballot for the President on November 6.

Ms Victor will sit in the First Lady’s box with military families, people who are championing immigration reform and victims of gun violence.

Haitian born Ms Victor, who is known as ‘Granny’ in her local community, expressed her surprise at the opportunity.

She said: ‘I know I’m going to sit with the president’s wife. I did not think I would get here. I am proud.’

White House Officials say that Ms Victor represents the minorities and immigrants who stand to benefit from the policies President Obama will discuss in his speech.

About what she said- we’ll be revisiting that.

“White House Officials say that Ms Victor represents the minorities and immigrants who stand to benefit from the policies President Obama will discuss in his speech”

They got that part right.

HuffPo:

WASHINGTON — A determined Florida centenarian who had to make two trips and wait several hours to vote for President Barack Obama last fall joined first lady Michelle Obama for Tuesday’s State of the Union. Her resolve to cast a ballot became a symbol of early voting obstacles in the presidential election.

Desiline Victor, 102, of Miami, endured a weather-delayed flight to Washington on Monday in order to get to town for Obama’s address. She was among the guests seated in the House visitors’ gallery, an opportunity she called “a beautiful thing.”

During his address, Obama cited Victor as an example worth following, saying she was concerned about “whether folks like her would get to have their say.”

Tampa Bay Times:

When she set out to cast her vote last year in North Miami, Desiline Victor had no way of knowing the journey would lead all the way to the White House. Tuesday night, Victor, a 102-year-old Haitian immigrant, sat in the House chamber as a guest of first lady Michelle Obama. Victor voted for the president, but it was not easy. On her first visit to the polls Oct. 28, the first day of early voting, she waited in line for three hours. Poll workers eventually advised her to come back later. She finally cast her vote that evening.

In his speech, President Barack Obama said we should follow Victor’s example.

“When she arrived at her polling place, she was told the wait to vote might be six hours,” Obama said, “And as time ticked by, her concern was not with her tired body or aching feet, but whether folks like her would get to have their say.”

And there’s lots more. The first question that popped into my mind was “What kind of people would make a centenarian wait three hours to vote?” Why wasn’t she immediately granted access to the front of the line?

I guess that what they do in North Miami.

But then I began wondering more about her. Specifically, why is she even here and how is she a US citizen?

Victor was born in 1910 and she is 102 years old. It’s admirable that she is “determined.” The problem is that she came to this country in 1989 at the age of 79. She doesn’t speak English.

“I’m very happy, very proud,” she said, communicating through a translator because she speaks only Haitian Creole. The translator is her godson, Mathieu Pierre Louis, whom she raised as her son. She moved to the United States in 1989 and became a naturalized citizen in 2005.

One of the requirements for citizenship is the ability to speak English:

General Eligibility Requirements

To be eligible for naturalization pursuant to section 319(a) of the INA, an applicant must:

Be 18 or older
Be a permanent resident (green card holder) for at least 3 years immediately preceding the date of filing Form N-400, Application for Naturalization
Have been living in marital union with the U.S. citizen spouse, who has been a U.S. citizen during all of such period, during the 3 years immediately preceding the date of filing the application and up until examination on the application
Have lived within the state, or USCIS district with jurisdiction over the applicant’s place of residence, for at least 3 months prior to the date of filing the application
Have continuous residence in the United States as a lawful permanent resident for at least 3 years immediately preceding the date of filing the application
Reside continuously within the United States from the date of application for naturalization until the time of naturalization
Be physically present in the United States for at least 18 months out of the 3 years immediately preceding the date of filing the application
Be able to read, write, and speak English and have knowledge and an understanding of U.S. history and government (also known as civics)
Be a person of good moral character, attached to the principles of the Constitution of the United States, and well disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States during all relevant periods under the law

“Be able to read, write, and speak English” Hmm. How did she gain citizenship?

And let’s examine why the President says we need immigration reform:

“Real reform means fixing the legal immigration system to cut waiting periods, reduce bureaucracy, and attract the highly-skilled entrepreneurs and engineers that will help create jobs and grow our economy.”

“attract the highly-skilled entrepreneurs and engineers”

Like Desiline Victor, right? How much has she contributed to the system? How much has she paid in income and social security taxes?

We’re going to strengthen the economy by importing 80 year olds with no skills and who cannot speak English and who are wholly dependent on the government for support?

Seriously?

Or are we merely importing elderly dependent future democrat voters who are willing to wait three hours to vote for their “son”?

DrJohn has been a health care professional for more than 30 years. In addition to clinical practice he has done extensive research and has published widely with over 70 original articles and abstracts in the peer-reviewed literature. DrJohn is well known in his field and has lectured on every continent except for Antarctica. He has been married to the same wonderful lady for over 30 years and has three kids- two sons, both of whom are attorneys and one daughter on her way into the field of education. DrJohn was brought up with the concept that one can do well if one is prepared to work hard but nothing in life is guaranteed. Except for liberals being foolish.

217 Responses to “Desiline Victor- sorry to burst the happy bubble but…”

  1. 101

    drjohn

    @Aye:

    Lessee…

    Guilty…..guilty……guilty…..

    Golly, I’m not seeing that anywhere in the post.

    How about blame the lady?

    Nope. Not there either. I did say I admired her, though. I can paste it here again if you like.

    And what else did I say? End entitlements and we can throw open the doors to immigration. Don’t care how old.

    Now you find yourself mired in the cesspool of your own proclaimed piety.

    Dayum!

  2. 102

    retire05

    Ms. Victor isn’t guilty of a damned thing.

    And what did anyone claim she was “guilty” of? And why have you refused to answer my questions about the possibility of her being able to live her life here in the U.S. sustained by government largess?

    And when you have Richard Wheeler in your court, Richard being one of the more radial leftist that post here, I guess your cred as a conservative has really taken a hit.

    February 15, 2013 at 9:50 am

  3. 103

    Aye

    editor

    @retire05:

    And what did anyone claim she was “guilty” of?

    Seriously? What an intellectually dishonest old biddy you are.

    Throughout this thread you’ve been accusing her of suckling on the gov’t teat. (You did it again in your most recent post.)

    You’ve presented not one piece of anything to support your claims even though you’ve been repeatedly challenged.

    And why have you refused to answer my questions about the possibility of her being able to live her life here in the U.S. substained by government largess?

    Because all black or brown people who come to the US sneak thru the border in the dead of night and live off of the gov’t teat right? Is that how the stereotype works in the empty space between your earlobes?

    Given the narrow scope of the REEA, there are several more likely scenarios. Did you consider whether Ms. Victor was one of the few Haitian wealthy and has been able to be self-sustaining? Did you consider that Ms. Victor or her husband (if any) may have paid into SocSec and earned eligibility? Did you consider whether Ms. Victor has relatives who take care of her? Nah, you’ve dismissed all of those possibilities, choosing instead to double down on your stereotypical pigeon-hole efforts.

    If you wish to continue to contend that Ms. Victor is living here sustained by government largesse, then here’s yet another golden opportunity to prove it. I’ve already pointed you in the direction of the REEA, specifically Section 501(e). Here’s what you need to establish once again for your convenience:

    So, tell us… Oh Tiresome One…

    1) Was Ms. Victor considered an entrant under the REEA of 1980? If so, in what year were her qualifications under the REEA evaluated?

    2) If she qualified under the REEA, which section(s) of 501(e) did she qualify under?

    3) In what year, if any, was Ms. Victor “paroled” from status?

    4) Was Ms. Victor was one of few wealthy Haitians? Or was she poor, coming here to escape oppression and seek political asylum?

    5) Did she or perhaps her husband (if any) actually work and contribute toward SocSec thus earning eligibility?

    Good luck.

  4. 104

    Tom

    @drjohn:

    I did say I admired her, though. I can paste it here again if you like.

    Why don’t you paste the rest of what you wrote about her? Here, I’ll help:

    “attract the highly-skilled entrepreneurs and engineers”

    Like Desiline Victor, right? How much has she contributed to the system? How much has she paid in income and social security taxes?

    We’re going to strengthen the economy by importing 80 year olds with no skills and who cannot speak English and who are wholly dependent on the government for support?

    Seriously?

    Or are we merely importing elderly dependent future democrat voters who are willing to wait three hours to vote for their “son”?

    So your version of admiration includes insinuating a person is unskilled (without proof), stating she’s contributed nothing to America (without proof), but is rather a leech on the system (again, unproven)? Furthermore, you dehumanize her, reduce her to a living avatar of a thing “imported” by nefarious politicians for the sole purpose of serving one purpose (“vote for their “son”), and you call that admiration?

    (Hmmm, I wonder what it is about Ms. Victor that makes you assume she considers Obama a “son”? )

    That’s some version of admiration you have Dr John. Not that I need to point any of this out, as you’ve been completely eviscerated on this thread, your credibility (haha) atomized, and your weaselly character revealed, but it still amazes me, from a purely academic standpoint, that you’re so inept at debating and backing your point as to continuously contradict yourself and forget that the things you write on the internet stay there for all to see.

  5. 105

    drjohn

    @Tom:

    This is emblematic of what’s wrong with immigration, Tom.

    I said the woman is guilty of nothing. I did say I admired her determination and I did say that I felt she was mistreated.
    The rest is you.

  6. 108

    Tom

    @drjohn:

    And with your lead in of labeling her as being an imported “elderly dependent future democrat voter”, it all hits just the right buttons when pulled from one context and placed in another, huh?

  7. 109

    drjohn

    @Tom:

    I am having a similar discussion elsewhere. There is great motivation in voting for one’s self-interest. Tell me why you think she called Obama her “son.” Tell me why you think she voted for him.

  8. 110

    retire05

    @Aye:

    What an intellectually dishonest old biddy you are.

    Of course, the all-knowing Aye could never be accused of generic bigorty, right? Seems I remember a photograph of an aged woman lacking a number of teeth that you found great humor in. One could easily assertain that picture represented your opinion of all generic women. Both age-bigoted and sexist in one hit.

    Throughout this thread you’ve been accusing her of suckling on the gov’t teat.

    I said it is possible. Have you anything, other than your vitriol against me, to prove otherwise?

    Because all black or brown people who come to the US sneak thru the border in the dead of night and live off of the gov’t teat right?

    And I said that where? Or is that just more of your strawman arguments?

    Is that how the stereotype works in the empty space between your earlobes?

    Ah, the ever gracious and courteous Aye, masqueraing as an asshole.

    Did you consider that Ms. Victor or her husband (if any) may have paid into SocSec and earned eligibility? Did you consider whether Ms. Victor has relatives who take care of her?

    A possibility. But if you had any facts to substantiate that theory, you would have presented it by now to claim coup.

    If you wish to continue to contend that Ms. Victor is living here sustained by government largesse, then here’s yet another golden opportunity to prove it.

    And where did I say that she actually did? Or did I say it was a strong possibility? Perhaps it is you who the onus is now on for proving she did not. Why is your senario any more valid than mine, or someone else’s? It’s not. Your senario is simply a hypothesis, just as mine is, yet you slam anyone whose hypothesis doesn’t fit yours.

    Do you ever tire of being a jerk?

  9. 113

    drjohn

    If you wish to continue to contend that Ms. Victor is living here sustained by government largesse, then here’s yet another golden opportunity to prove it.

    It’s an opinion that cannot be disproved thus far either. I suspect if it was otherwise, we’d have heard about it already.

  10. 114

    ilovebeeswarzone

    drjohn
    they where reminded to vote for AMERICA, we all made sure to warn them,
    this was not a vote for a person, no
    it was a vote for giving AMERICA the best a NATION CAN OFFER,
    AND IF THEY VOTE FOR THE PERSON COLOR IT IS VERY RACIST
    AND UN-AMERICAN,
    TO BAD SO MANY MADE THAT MISTAKE, BECAUSE
    AMERICA IS HURTING EVEN MORE,

  11. 117

    Aye

    editor

    @drjohn:

    Oh I don’t know. Nearly 3000 hits and over 100 likes and you projecting your fool head off.

    So…when you make an idiot of yourself, you consider it more of a success when you have a larger audience to point and laugh at you.

    Got it.

  12. 119

    Aye

    editor

    @drjohn:

    If you wish to continue to contend that Ms. Victor is living here sustained by government largesse, then here’s yet another golden opportunity to prove it.

    It’s an opinion that cannot be disproved thus far either. I suspect if it was otherwise, we’d have heard about it already.

    You cannot prove a negative. Logic 101.

    You’re welcome.

  13. 122

    Aye

    editor

    @retire05:

    Of course, the all-knowing Aye could never be accused of generic bigorty, right?

    There was nothing generic about my comment. It was directed at you alone. Very specific. Don’t get confused.

    Seems I remember a photograph of an aged woman lacking a number of teeth that you found great humor in.

    Yep, your memory on that is accurate. It was this one:

    Photobucket

    One could easily assertain that picture represented your opinion of all generic women.

    That would, of course, be a false and dishonest conclusion since I was very, very specific with my words when I posted it: This is the mental image I have when I see her posts specifically referring to you. Again, very narrow. Not vague or confusing. Even for you.

    I said it is possible. Have you anything, other than your vitriol against me, to prove otherwise?

    It’s only possible via the REEA gateway. You’ve rested all of your assertions on Ms. Victor being eligible via that gateway. I’ve laid out for you over and over again the steps that you will need to take to prove the validity of that possibility. Yet, you continue to avoid making that effort. It’s becoming crystal clear why you’re avoiding your own arguments and I find it more than mildly amusing.

    Because all black or brown people who come to the US sneak thru the border in the dead of night and live off of the gov’t teat right? Is that how the stereotype works in the empty space between your earlobes?

    And I said that where? Or is that just more of your strawman arguments?

    Never claimed you said that. Simply asked a question out of genuine curiosity. I wanna know the details and inner workings of this stereotype you’ve attempted to pigeon-hole Ms. Victor into.

    If you wish to continue to contend that Ms. Victor is living here sustained by government largesse, then here’s yet another golden opportunity to prove it.

    And where did I say that she actually did? Or did I say it was a strong possibility? Perhaps it is you who the onus is now on for proving she did not.

    Nope.

    You raised the argument. You bear the onus to either prove it or abandon it. No amount of wriggling is going to free you from the hook you’ve threaded yourself onto.

    There are several possibilities here. You and the author of this piece, elected to apply the harshest most negative ones to Ms. Victor. Of course, that’s what stereotyping and pigeon-holing is all about isn’t it? You’ve got to vilify in order to make the whole thing work.

    At this point your choice is clear: Put up or shut up. Prove your claims or admit you were just running off at the mouth because, after all, “when you make a claim, any claim, the onus is then on you to prove it.”

    Do you ever tire of being a jerk?

    Do you ever tire of being irredeemably stupid?

  14. 124

    retire05

    @Aye:
    .
    I have said that Ms. Victor could be eligible for benefits under the REAA. I will not retract that. Ever. Now, if you want to dispute that, with facts that support the contrary, knock your lights
    out.

    That would, of course, be a false and dishonest conclusion since I was very, very specific with my words when I posted it: This is the mental image I have when I see her posts specifically referring to you. Again, very narrow. Not vague or confusing. Even for you.

    And you find what wrong with a woman of obviously advanced years, possessing less than Victoria’s Secret model facial skin, who enjoys a good cigar?

    Now, again, is it possible that Ms. Victor could qualify for all the benefits granted to those paroled under the REAA? Yes or no. Or do we get more b/s from you?

    Do you ever tire of being irredeemably stupid?

    FO, Aye. I am through with you. Claim your coup. It will remain a small victory only in your world. You have become nothing more than a nasty contrarian who seems to think you are so much smarter than every one else. You are nothing more than a bully. And I pity anyone who has the displeasure of having to deal with you in the real world.

  15. 125

    Tom

    @drjohn:

    Tell me why you think she voted for him.

    I don’t know why. If if thought it was any of my business, I might ask her. In the absence of no direct knowlege as to why, what I wouldn’t do is float a nasty, lowest-common-denominator stereotype about the woman. But as we’ve seen time after time, that’s the only tool in your toolbox. I hope the ego-stroke you get from all the cyber pats on the back fills the vacuum where integrity is supposed to reside.

    BTW, I noticed you’ve yet to respond to this question that goes directly to your credibility in the wake of bragging about how much you “admire” Ms. Victor.

  16. 128

    retire05

    @Tom:

    Fear not, Tommy Boy; I don’t wear orange, don’t smoke cigars, have all my teeth, my hair is not gray, I don’t like silver jewelry and have an ardent hatred for polyester knits. Oh, and my Native American cheek bones would prevent the wearing of those glasses.

    But then, one must ask; what do you find so funny about a picture of a woman obviously in the twilight of her years, who did not quite make the “World’s Most Beautiful People” list? Do you have something against aged women who do not look like Sophia Loren that you would find their looks comical? I though all you liberals prided yourselves on being nonjudgemental. Guess not.

    Ironically, the photo is from Aye (or someone using that moniker) of a CUBAN woman. Tells you a lot about the quality of life in Cuba, doesn’t it or the people who find it funny.

  17. 129

    Aye

    editor

    @retire05:

    And you find what wrong with a woman of obviously advanced years, possessing less than Victoria’s Secret model facial skin, who enjoys a good cigar?

    I don’t find a darned thing wrong with it actually. I just find that the lady in the picture perfectly matches my mental image of you. Never said that was a bad thing.

    Now, again, is it possible that Ms. Victor could qualify for all the benefits granted to those paroled under the REAA? Yes or no. Or do we get more b/s from you?

    What difference does it make what my thoughts are on the REEA and its’ applicability to Ms. Victor? Oh, that’s right, I didn’t raise the REEA as a gateway. That was you.

    The issue here is not my thoughts but, rather, your repeated claims that she was/is eligible for SSI via the REEA in over and over and over and over and over.

    Yet you make a laughing stock of yourself by refusing even a modicum of effort to support your claims.

    FO, Aye. I am through with you.

    Awww…darn. It seems your feelings are hurt. If only you were significant enough for me to care.

  18. 131

    ilovebeeswarzone

    TOM
    IF YOU CANNOT SAY SOMETHING POSITIVE
    YOU SHOULD REFRAIN AND SHUT UP,
    I visualize you regurgirating at every word you say to attack my friend,
    and the picture in my mind is demonic

  19. 133

    Tom

    @retire05:

    But then, one must ask; what do you find so funny about a picture of a woman obviously in the twilight of her years, who did not quite make the “World’s Most Beautiful People” list? Do you have something against aged women who do not look like Sophia Loren that you would find their looks comical?

    Since you’re on a quest against stereotyping, there’s this real moron posting all over the comment section of this thread writing interminable posts that all boil down to her belief that Ms. Victor must be on some form of government assistance because she’s an immigrant and Haitian and elderly and a woman of color. You should go give her a piece of your mind.

  20. 139

    Tom

    @retire05:

    So we’re to buy you just randomly picked Desiline Victor could be on the dole as your non-judgmental musing of the day? Who knows, catch you in a slightly different mood, and maybe it’s “Desiline Victor could be a passionate volunteer at her church” or maybe “Desiline Victor could be a world class bridge player”.

    The “could be” game by Retire5: sling whatever garbage you want, because cowardly plausible deniability never felt so good.

  21. 140

    Aye

    editor

    @Tom:

    Nevermind that Ms. Victor is eligible for SSSI benefits under the 1980 law, as well as Medicare, due to her income, depending on Miami, Florida benefits, she would also be eligible for public housing and food stamps, subsidized utilities and an “Obama” phone.

    Let me see; monthly check, free medical insurance, housing, food, utilities and a phone. What else does she need to be “wholly dependent on government support?”

    Unequivocal assertion of eligibility? Check.

    A laundry list of all of the windfalls Ms. Victor is supposedly receiving? Check.

    That’s a clear “must be” declaration that Ms. Victor was/is on government assistance.

    Isn’t it sad when people cannot remember what they wrote on the Interwebz slightly less than 48 hours before?

  22. 142

    retire05

    Obviously, Aye doesn’t comprehend the English language and doesn’t understand the difference between “is eligible” and “would be eligible” and “is collecting.”

  23. 143

    Aye

    editor

    @retire05:

    Sigh.

    This statement/question: What else does she need to be “wholly dependent on government support?” establishes the premise that Ms. Victor is receiving the benefits you listed in the previous sentence.

    You’re really not very good at this.

  24. 145

    Aye

    editor

    @ilovebeeswarzone:

    she is on the dole of tax payers, ain’t she?
    well ain’t she?

    You should ask your buddies retire and Dr J those questions.

    So far, there have been plenty of stereotypical accusations to that effect but not a single piece of evidence to support that idea.

  25. 147

    Aye

    editor

    @drjohn:

    This is not about race.

    Did I say it was about race? Why no, I didn’t.

    Nice straw man though.

    Geez, when did you graduate from Obama school, Captain Obvious?

    Help me out here because the thought process is unclear.

    If I never said anything about this issue revolving around race, then why did you feel the need to make the “This is not about race” denial? Guilty conscience? Hand in the cookie jar? Freudian slip?

    @drjohn:

    Well, even if any of those things were true, at least I didn’t demonstrate to everyone that I am a living, breathing example of ageism and bigotry, eh?

    Neither did I. You are projecting again.

    Well first of all, like Hobson’s Choice, you’ve got the whole “projection” thing all wrong.

    Let’s hit the rewind button and see what’s been said. From the body of the post:

    Victor was born in 1910 and she is 102 years old. It’s admirable that she is “determined.” The problem is that she came to this country in 1989 at the age of 79. She doesn’t speak English.

    Would a person with no negative attitudes toward the elderly find it to be a “problem” that Ms. Victor came to the US when she was 79?

    One of the requirements for citizenship is the ability to speak English

    “Be able to read, write, and speak English” Hmm. How did she gain citizenship?

    By the third comment to this post, we knew that the English speaking requirement did not apply to Ms. Victor. Because the whole “speak English” thing was pivotal to his argument (and vilifying Ms. Victor) the author didn’t go back and do an update and set the record straight. Even now, nearly 150 comments in, it’s still hanging there like a piece of overripe fruit.

    Would a person with no bigoted attitudes about those who don’t speak English highlight that as a reason to object to Ms. Victor’s citizenship?

    Like Desiline Victor, right? How much has she contributed to the system? How much has she paid in income and social security taxes?

    Would a person with no ageist attitudes assign value to a human based on their past or future contributory value? Would a person with no stereotypical attitudes automatically assume that an elderly person is drawing SocSec?

    We’re going to strengthen the economy by importing 80 year olds with no skills and who cannot speak English and who are wholly dependent on the government for support?

    Once again, we’re back to the heart of your stereotypical ideas. Old people cannot possibly have any skills or contributory value right? And they’re always dependent on the gov’t even when there’s not anything to support those conclusions right?

    Or are we merely importing elderly dependent future democrat voters who are willing to wait three hours to vote for their “son”?

    Once again, I ask: Are you seriously advocating an immigration policy that bases citizenship decisions on age and voting preferences?

    I wonder how many of the immigrants that made this nation great would have been filtered out by this ageist/bigoted attitude.

    From the comments:

    The point is to question why we are importing entirely unskilled elderly people in need of support for no other reason than they vote for democrats.

    Those who are unable to comply due to mental impairment

    And don’t we need more of those.

    So, there you have it. Your words. With a little bolding added to highlight the stinkage. I’m sure there’s more that I didn’t include.

    Finally, from the FA archives, the cherry on top:

    Send them back. Send them all back.

    That last part is what you wrote in regard to an Olympic Silver Medal winner.

    Is he, in your estimation, “unskilled” or “non-contributing” or “wholly dependent”? I ask because you sure as hell said you wanted to “Send [him] back.”

    Ageism? Check.

    Bigotry? Check.

    Congratulations.

  26. 148

    DrJohn

    author

    @Aye:

    Are you seriously advocating an immigration policy that bases citizenship decisions on age and voting preferences?

    No but we seem to have one now. Those with skills like my office manager who are going to vote conservatively face large hurdles and onerous burdens. Those who follow the immigration rules encounter the greatest challenges.

    You left wingers encourage illegal immigration. You even want to import the mentally ill.

    We don’t need to be the world’s nursing home. We don’t owe anyone that. You left wingers are always magnanimous with the fruits of others.

    I see you stayed up all night burdened with this.

    And they’re always dependent on the gov’t even when there’s not anything to support those conclusions right?

    Prove otherwise and I’ll take it back. I’ll admit you were right about this one person but I doubt you will be able to. Actually, it’d be fun to know that Mrs. Victor came here with $10 million in the bank that would be subject to the inheritance tax.

    That last part is what you wrote in regard to an Olympic Silver Medal winner.

    Who wrapped himself in a Mexican flag after the privileges this country granted him allowed him to achieve what he’d achieved.

    Send all illegals back? You bet.

    I’ll bet if I busted into your home and demanded you let me stay you would not be agreeable to it.

    Congratulations. You really are the single most self-righteous individual with whom I have had exchanges in this sort of environment. You are cantankerous, bitchy and just mean overall. You shit all over anyone with whom you disagree as though there is some reward for such behavior. Maybe it’s a substitute for other stimulations now passed. Who knows. It would have been better for you to stop much earlier but now you just look like a jerk. Having Tom on your side is the very proof of that.

    I just don’t understand why you feel this need to be such an a-hole. It’s one thing for commenters to be idiots but an author? That can’t be a great thing for a blog. I don’t think I have ever seen another blog in which there is such a lack of civility between contributors. When I find myself disagreeing with anything you write, and you offer little beyond viciousness, I prefer to leave it alone.

    Why do you do this? Is it worth it?

  27. 149

    Aqua

    @DrJohn:

    Send all illegals back? You bet.

    I just want to address this part with you Dr. J. This is a valid argument, and something that people on both sides should be able to discuss.
    You called out “you left-wingers” in your last post. I’m more than a little sure that Aye is not a left-winger. I’m not a left-winger, but this comes up with certain people on the right more frequently. If you disagree with a position, you are not a true “conservative, republican, right-winger.” Personally, I tend to lean libertarian on social issues, and conservative on fiscal issues. As I told Ms. Bees in another thread, I don’t want to be ruled by either side, and that seems to be the way we are going. I don’t want to be ruled by the right or ruled by the left.
    As for illegal immigration; a man, woman, husband, wife, mother, father, will do anything to make life better for their family. Our founding parents were just such people. They couldn’t change the political situation in the countries, so to provide a better life for their families, they came here.
    The border needs to be secured; it’s a national security issue. Is the left wrong on this? Yeah, just ask ranchers in the southern border towns. The border is not secure.
    Our immigration process needs to be fixed, it sucks. From the top down, it needs to be reworked.
    Deport all illegals? You can be a conservative and also be a realist. It’s never going to happen. Self deportation is one of the most stupid things to flow from Romney’s mouth. From people that rightly say national background checks won’t work well because criminals will not get a background check, comes self deportation. E-verify and illegals will no longer be able to work. Yeah, it’ll put a crimp in system, but they’ll just go underground. By they, I mean illegal aliens and those that employ them. Operation Wetback II? Yep, that will look great on the nightly news. The site of millions of families being torn apart a the borders streaming into the living rooms of the most generous people in the world.
    There’s a way to fix all of this, and that is the conversation we should be having. It shouldn’t be about a 102 year old woman that may or not be benefiting from the taxpayers.

  28. 150

    DrJohn

    author

    @Aqua:

    As I told Ms. Bees in another thread, I don’t want to be ruled by either side, and that seems to be the way we are going. I don’t want to be ruled by the right or ruled by the left.

    Fair enough.

    The border needs to be secured; it’s a national security issue. Is the left wrong on this? Yeah, just ask ranchers in the southern border towns. The border is not secure.

    Agreed

    Our immigration process needs to be fixed, it sucks. From the top down, it needs to be reworked.

    Agreed

    Deport all illegals? You can be a conservative and also be a realist. It’s never going to happen.

    Agreed.

    Self deportation is one of the most stupid things to flow from Romney’s mouth.

    Agreed

    There’s a way to fix all of this, and that is the conversation we should be having. It shouldn’t be about a 102 year old woman that may or not be benefiting from the taxpayers.

    I agree that it could have been written better. Thank you for the civil discussion. It’s refreshing.

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