al-Qaeda “rebels” armed with stinger missiles…thanks Obama! [Reader Post]

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Yesterday a Syrian helicopter was downed by Syrian “rebels.”

Armed rebels in Syria say they have shot down a military helicopter over the capital, Damascus.

The Free Syrian Army said the aircraft had been firing at people in the north-eastern district of Jobar, and that it had crashed in neighbouring Qabun.

State television confirmed that a helicopter had come down in Qabun.

On Sunday, opposition activists said government forces had massacred more than 300 people during their assault on the south-western suburb of Darayya.

The “rebels” also claim to have shot down a Syrian Mig 23.

Syrian rebels have produced footage of a man they claim is the captured pilot of a fighter jet that went down in the east of the country.

The rebel Free Syrian Army (FSA) say they shot a military aircraft down near the Iraqi border.

But state media say the plane crashed because of “technical problems” and a search is under way to find the pilot.

Syria is facing suspension from the Organisation of Islamic Co-operation because of its handling of the crisis.

On the eve of an emergency summit called by Saudi Arabia, foreign ministers meeting for preparatory talks in Jeddah backed a resolution despite objections from President Assad’s ally, Iran.

Confirmation of Syria’s suspension is expected later this week.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYjXxVyOW-A[/youtube]

Where did these surface to air weapons come from?

Most likely- Libya.

In his haste to score political points, Barack Obama conducted an air war on Libya in order to drive out Muammar Gaddafi. Obama wanted desperately to avoid putting US troops on the ground in Libya, but there was an enormous cost for that-

Stingers

As many as 20,000 shoulder-mounted Stinger missiles went missing following the chaos in Libya.

Washington: News reports appear to confirm weeks of worries by senior White House and congressional officials that large numbers of shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles have gone missing in Libya.

ABC News is reporting that a secret White House meeting discussed the disappearance of 20,000 “portable, heat-seeking” missiles.

They quote Tommy Vietor, spokesman for the National Security Council, saying that a State Department expert “is on the ground in Libya,” along with five specialists, to work with the new government to find, secure and, if necessary, destroy the missiles.

Libya possessed large stocks of Grinch SA-24 and SA-7s shoulder-launched missiles. The Grinch is a much more sophisticated and effective missile than the SA-7. The Grinch is considered similar to the famous Stinger anti-aircraft missile that helped the Afghans defeat the Soviets.

AOL D readers will remember that the White House’s top counterterrorism official, John Brennan, made it very clear several weeks ago that the White House worried al Qaeda will get its hands on the missiles. There were already reports then of large numbers of missiles being looted as the Qaddafi regime collapsed.

A NY Times article from earlier this month reported that the “rebels” have a full surface to air missile system

For the first time since the conflict in Syria began last year, an activist opposed to President Bashar al-Assad has publicly presented possible evidence that the antigovernment forces have obtained a heat-seeking, shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missile.

The photograph at the top of this post, which was published on the Facebook page of Obaida Elwani on Tuesday, shows a complete SA-7 system, an early member of the Stinger class of weapons.

The image clearly shows the missile tube, its battery unit and the grip stock, which ties the system together and makes it possible to fire. Previously, at least one SA-7 missile tube and battery had been documented in the hands of anti-Assad forces. But this is the first time an entire system has been shown.

And the article made an eerily accurate prediction:

Whether the SA-7 in the photograph is functional, or how effective an SA-7 would be against Syrian military aircraft, is also unknown. The SA-7 is an old system; its heat-seeking head can be thwarted by countermeasures on many modern military aircraft. And fighters planning to use the system effectively would need training, including on how to select the best angles for attacking aircraft; it is not possible to tell from this image whether the system is in even reasonably competent hands. That said, Syria’s military helicopters, judging from the abundant footage of their activities in recent weeks, could be vulnerable to such weapons – even to old variants like the SA-7, which would also reasonably be expected to change Syrian pilots’ perceptions of the risks of sorties into areas where rebels with SA-7s are present.

This is a frightening new episode as the “rebels” in Syria are working in cooperation with Al Qaida:

The evidence is mounting that Syria has become a magnet for Sunni extremists, including those operating under the banner of Al Qaeda. An important border crossing with Turkey that fell into Syrian rebels’ hands last week, Bab al-Hawa, has quickly become a jihadist congregating point.

The presence of jihadists in Syria has accelerated in recent days in part because of a convergence with the sectarian tensions across the country’s long border in Iraq. Al Qaeda, through an audio statement, has just made an undisguised bid to link its insurgency in Iraq with the revolution in Syria, depicting both as sectarian conflicts — Sunnis versus Shiites.

Iraqi officials said the extremists operating in Syria are in many cases the very same militants striking across their country. “We are 100 percent sure from security coordination with Syrian authorities that the wanted names that we have are the same wanted names that the Syrian authorities have, especially within the last three months,” Izzat al-Shahbandar — a close aide to the Iraqi prime minister, Nuri Kamal al-Maliki — said in an interview on Tuesday. “Al Qaeda that is operating in Iraq is the same as that which is operating in Syria,” he said.

And to be clear, Barack Obama is supporting this:

(Reuters) – President Barack Obama has signed a secret order authorizing U.S. support for rebels seeking to depose Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and his government, U.S. sources familiar with the matter said.

Obama’s order, approved earlier this year and known as an intelligence “finding,” broadly permits the CIA and other U.S. agencies to provide support that could help the rebels oust Assad.

This and other developments signal a shift toward growing, albeit still circumscribed, support for Assad’s armed opponents – a shift that intensified following last month’s failure of the U.N. Security Council to agree on tougher sanctions against the Damascus government.

The White House is for now apparently stopping short of giving the rebels lethal weapons, even as some U.S. allies do just that.

Bashar Assad is a bad guy, but as in Egypt, we are making the situation worse. We are creating another fertile land for the growth of Al Qaida and terrorism.

Stingers falling into the hands of Al Qaida has been called the “Nightmare” scenario.

That nightmare is here.

So when it happens

you will know who to thank.

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uh oh, drj… I do believe you will be risking the wrath of your #1 fan of late, Ivan. Since we already went thru the missing stash a year ago, with predictions of where they had gone, and they’ve surfaced pretty much exactly where was predicted a year ago – in the hands of bad guys – sorta blows Ivan’ski’s assurance us that AQ wouldn’t be getting them or downing any aircraft.

oops…

The United States needs a ‘get tough’ stance with these same people [terrorists], all over the middle east…we need to put it out there in the sense… IF anything again occurs like what happened 9/11 or any Air Bus or U.S. [anything] which takes lives….the United States will “annihilate you” and follow through with most everything we’ve got and don’t look back either… Period.

Maybe attach a note to one of the explosives with the statement – “You were warned”

Weapons… more and more being [somehow] left behind during these ‘wars’ and are falling into the crazy’s hands….and they are crazy enough to use them…total weapons anarchy..

These people only understand strength…and ‘might’….their mindset is still back 2000 years… only now they have bigger and badder weapons…

They apparently don’t ‘negotiate’ and neither should the U.S. [or should Israel] ….it will come to a point of … kill or be killed….

I’m curious why the Syrian rebels are being identified as al Qaeda, and why the weapon used is being identified as a Stinger missile. The launcher displayed in the NY Times article isn’t of U.S. origin. The original design was Soviet. Knockoffs are all over the place.

That nightmare is here.

Indeed, yet graver more terrible nightmares will follow. As Gerald Warner of the UK Telegraph wrote on January 20, 2009:

This will end in tears. The Obama hysteria is not merely embarrassing to witness, it is itself contributory to the scale of the disaster that is coming. What we are experiencing, in the deepening days of a global depression, is the desperate suspension of disbelief by people of intelligence – la trahison des clercs – in a pathetic effort to hypnotise themselves into the delusion that it will be all right on the night. It will not be all right.

Barack Obama inauguration: this Emperor has no clothes, it will all end in tears

Blame the Russians, I guess blaming Bush for this fiasco would have been a stretch for the progs.

DrJohn
this sound dangerous for the TROOPS IN AFGHANISTAN, don’t you think?
and could it be one of those who shot the SEAL HELICOPTER PREVIOUSLY,
THE one that killed the MILITARY ALONG WITH SOME AFGHAN MILITARY,
THEY PROBABLY HAD RECEIVED IT AND PRACTICE IN AFGHANISTAN,
I’m JUST ASSUMING, because the power of the weapon had rendered the copter in multiple pieces this was said by the one searching for the bodies also in pieces

@Greg:

and why the weapon used is being identified as a Stinger missile.

Generic term, Greg. From the link:

Libya possessed large stocks of Grinch SA-24 and SA-7s shoulder-launched missiles. The Grinch is a much more sophisticated and effective missile than the SA-7. The Grinch is considered similar to the famous Stinger anti-aircraft missile that helped the Afghans defeat the Soviets.

And the photo in the NY Times article shows……an SA7.

But, by calling it a Stinger, when it was not, shifts the blame on to the US (and Obama according to ultra-conservatives), doesn’t it also cast a shadow on the overall credibility of the article?

@Liberal1 (objectivity):

The SA-7 is an early member of the Stinger class of missiles.

Rub those two brain cells together more vigorously and focus when you read. It might help…

Then again, considering your previous posts here, probably not.

@Liberal1 (objectivity):

Back in the early 1980’s when the Reagan administration sent actual US built Stinger missiles to the the anti-Soviet resistance in Afghanistan the Progressive-left spent a lot of effort hyping a danger that a US built Stinger missle would fall into terrorist hands. None ever did.

Pres. Obama however chose to use ad-hoc proxies to overthrow the government of Libya without any US forces on the ground. The loss of control of those Libyan arsenals was and is an easily foreseeable inevitability if such an ad-hoc deployment of force were to succeed against the Libyan government.

There is also the possibility that the Obama Administration has covertly supplied the Syrian rebels with those Russian Stingers. Similar things have happened in the past. For example the CIA supplied Tibetan anti-Communist resistance in the 1950s with weapons obtained from captured Nazi arsenals at the end of WWII.

Big “S” Stinger is specifically a U.S. weapon system; little “s” stinger is a generic term. This actually matters, when we’re talking about military weapons and who might be responsible for bad people having them. I wouldn’t assume that someone taking a shot at one of Assad’s military helicopters necessarily falls into that category.

Turkey and Saudi Arabia are rumored to be supplying the Syrian rebels: Exclusive: Secret Turkish nerve center leads aid to Syria rebels

@Greg:

We should expect so.

The Mig was shot down by AAA. It is clear from the video.

No proof exists that said missiles were liberated from Libya via Al Queda.

The FACT that no civilian airliners have been shot down or attack by MANPADS since Libya implies terrorists don’t have them.

From the L.A. Times:

There has been no public indication to date that Syrian insurgents have acquired significant stocks of shoulder-fired antiaircraft missiles, though it may just be a matter of time until such systems become part of the rebel arsenal.

As many as 20,000 shoulder-mounted Stinger missiles went missing following the chaos in Libya.

Dr. John, I’m curious why you chose a source so blatantly uniformed?

Bashar Assad is a bad guy, but as in Egypt, we are making the situation worse. We are creating another fertile land for the growth of Al Qaida and terrorism.

So Dr. John, you agree with me that the US forced Mubarak out of office?

@Ivan:

Dr. John, I’m curious why you chose a source so blatantly uniformed?

You pick one. It happened.

@Ivan:

The FACT that no civilian airliners have been shot down or attack by MANPADS since Libya implies terrorists don’t have them.

I am predicting. Give it time. Wait until these Al Qaida incubators have some time to grown their young.

@MataHarley:

and they’ve surfaced pretty much exactly where was predicted a year ago – in the hands of bad guys – sorta blows Ivan’ski’s assurance us that AQ wouldn’t be getting them or downing any aircraft.

Got proof?

@drjohn:

You pick one. It happened.

Dr. John, your source claims “Stingers.” Right there they are discredited.

@Ivan:

See #10

@MataHarley:

with predictions of where they had gone, and they’ve surfaced pretty much exactly where was predicted a year ago

Hi Mata,

Let’s assume the aircraft in question were shot down by MANPADs. How do you prove they came from Libya???

By the way, your picture at the end of your story is a PSA flight over San Diego in ’78 or about.

Not a shoot-down.

@Aye: Never heard the SA-7 called a member of the “Stinger” class.

Where do they use this terminology, Aye? Just curious. Stinger, I thought, was specific, not general.

Have a great day!

@Ivan:

Ivan

Wait until the chemical weapons show up. Where could Syria possibly have gotten them?

@Ivan:

Never heard the SA-7 called a member of the “Stinger” class.

Where do they use this terminology, Aye?

Here ya go. From Dr. J’s cited source material:

The photograph at the top of this post, which was published on the Facebook page of Obaida Elwani on Tuesday, shows a complete SA-7 system, an early member of the Stinger class of weapons.

And another:

More recently, experiences in Angola and Mozambique, in Morocco’s Polisario guerrilla war, in the Falklands (Islas Malvinas), and in Afghanistan have further confirmed the danger that the SAM poses to attackers–particularly the small SA-7-/Redeye-/Blowpipe-/Stinger-class weapon.

@Liberal1 (objectivity): There is a shadow of credibility but not on the article but on 0blama.

@Aye: Thank you, Aye. Not sure why they have a new “class” when MANPADS should suffice.

Take care.

@drjohn: I know that Syria got them from Iran.

@MataHarley:

and they’ve surfaced pretty much exactly where was predicted a year ago – in the hands of bad guys –

Again, I ask, where is your proof, that some lone SA-7 as witnessed by the NYT came from Libya?

You realize that the Syrian Army has numerous MANPADS? Is it it possible that said missiles were liberated from defecting or defeated Syrian troops?????

You are so desperate to be proven correct about your hopelessly flawed hypothesis that you’ll grasp at any straw you can to regain an iota of your shattered credibility.

@Greg: I’m curious why the Syrian rebels are being identified as al QaedaBecause they are, at least a large majority are and the term “rebel” is being loosely used….and why the weapon used is being identified as a Stinger missile. The launcher displayed in the NY Times article isn’t of U.S. originThe answer to your question is in your sentence….

@MataHarley:

with predictions of where they had gone, and they’ve surfaced pretty much exactly where was predicted a year ago – in the hands of bad guys – sorta blows Ivan’ski’s assurance us that AQ wouldn’t be getting them or downing any aircraft.

I’ll ask you again. How does this story back up your hysterical claim that the mission Libyan MANPADS are the ones being used in Syria.

Get your behind back in this thread and answer a legitimate question.

@Ivan, it seems that once again, you pine for negative attention. Quite frankly, it was just enough for me to predict that you’d be back, again babbling nonsense and spoiling for a fight. soooooo predictable. Perhaps I should have added that you would have found a way to accuse me of something I didn’t do, since you have no honor.

But again you seem to have a problem mixing up authors and stories. If you’d actually saunter back in time and read my post from last year, it might dawn on you that I only stated that the Libyan weaponry was missing and that military analysts were afraid they would, and did, likely end up in the hands of unfriendlies.

Or, verbatim from my post:

Instead, military analysts are assuming they are in the hands of AQ or other extremist groups… either directly looted, or perhaps sold by rogue rebels.

Gee.. where did that comment come from? How about from the first link in the entire post…

A senior American military officer who follows Libya closely said it was puzzling that there had been so few documented instances in which Libyan loyalist troops launched shoulder-fired missiles at NATO aircraft. “I’m not sure what that means,” the officer said. “Fewer systems than we thought? Systems are inoperable? Few in Libya know how to operate them?”

The officer said it was also unclear whether Al Qaeda or other extremist groups had acquired the missiles, though he said intelligence analysts were assuming they had. “But if they do, why haven’t they used or threatened to use?” the officer said. “It’s all very murky right now.”

What is obvious to the simplest of minds is that these weapons, possessed by the Syrian rebels, were not acquired as part of a purchase of State, but on the black market.

Therefore, except to your hyperbolic mentality, I’ve never asserted that the Libyan missing weapons were those currently being used in Syria… altho it wouldn’t be a huge stretch of the imagination to assume that some of their weaponry did weave thru the black market from Libya, as well as other nations. Also my comment merely reflected the officer’s statement to the NYTs that the military analysts did believe that was where they would end up.

Therefore, you might want to redirect your erroneous indignation towards drj, as he is the one who has alluded to them being from Libya in this post. i.e…. I don’t have to prove anything because I didn’t state what you say I did.

doh….

But then, speaking of “proof”… something you rarely provide on anything you say…isn’t it you who doesn’t want to provide proof that the CIA was behind the overthrow of Mubarak, in concert with the Muslim Brotherhood?

So here’s what I have to say to you… you can add another demand to the “prove it, Ivan” list. Why don’t *you* prove that drj’s suggestion that the weapons used by the Syrian rebels – which include AQ and other extremist factions – did *not* come from Syria.

So that’s it from this end. ta ta, and expect no more. I’m already over my limited quota in time I allow to cyber address you.

MATA
could it have been acquire by HESBOLA FROM LIBYA PAID BY ANOTHER OF THOSE COUNTRIES,
THEN LEND TO ALQADA FOR THEIR JOB, WHICH WILL BE RETURN TO HESBOLA
HIDING IT FOR THE COUNTRY who paid for it, but doesn’t want to be known and or keep it with them
I would think that’s the way they are making deals underground deals, and that is done in AFGHANISTAN BY THE CITIZENS WITH ALQADA OR TALIBAN THEY MAKE MONEY
BY HELPING THEM WHILE SMILING TO THE MILITARY

Hezbollah is a extreme terrorist group, Bees. Again, if Hezbollah acquires these, it’s not part of a State purchase for weaponry (Hezbollah is not a State/ country), but black market purchases.

Don’t think you can “lend” missiles, girl… not much left to return after you use them, ya know. LOL

@MataHarley:

But then, speaking of “proof”… something you rarely provide on anything you say…isn’t it you who doesn’t want to provide proof that the CIA was behind the overthrow of Mubarak, in concert with the Muslim Brotherhood?

I answered Aye’s question. It came from Wikileaks.

@MataHarley:

Therefore, except to your hyperbolic mentality, I’ve never asserted that the Libyan missing weapons were those currently being used in Syria…

You sure as hell implied it on the first response. You, Mata, were in the “Spiking the football” mode.

And you, Mata, you are the one who initiated the “negative energy” with your taunt in the very first response of this thread.

uh oh, drj… I do believe you will be risking the wrath of your #1 fan of late, Ivan.

Sounds like you started it? Or this…

sorta blows Ivan’ski’s assurance us that AQ wouldn’t be getting them or downing any aircraft.

You’re a bomb-thrower. You started it and you’ve become hysterical when I asked you to back up your claim, which you refuse to do.

Here, let me ask you again:

Where in the article does it show/prove that the missiles used in these two attacks came from Libya.

Again, here is your claim:

and they’ve surfaced pretty much exactly where was predicted a year ago – in the hands of bad guys

MATA
YES YOU MUST BE RIGHT,
MY BAD, OOPS
BYE

Obama and his treasonour generals did it on purpose. In 1963, the 88th Congress and Kennedy concluded that the Muslim Brotherhood and the Saudis were too dangerous to have weapons – they cancelled weapons deals. They killed Kennedy and General Dynamics began selling weapons to the Saudis – its a set up – If you want to read the hearings, go to 88th Congressional Index, under “Middle East”.