Matt Drudge and Michael Graham both note the hypocrisy of left-wing mayors who want to ban Chick-fil-A from their cities for opposing gay marriage. (“GODFATHER WELCOMES FARRAKHAN” and “Imam Who Inspired Menino’s Mosque Lists The Many Ways To Kill Gays”.) Hey leftists, how about first breaking away from your bromances with Muslim demagogues who want to put homosexuals to death?
But the biggest hypocrisy is the contrast with their position on the Ground Zero mosque, where numerous leading leftists, from Obama on down, insisted that Muslims have a constitutional right to establish a mosque in a building that was hit by the landing gear of Flight 175 after it came out the back of WTC2 on 9/11.
Just as leftist Democrats Emanuel, Moreno and Menino want to bar Chick-fil-A from their territories for speaking what they consider to be blasphemy (despite its being the majority view), so too leftists in New York City (led by leftist Republican mayor Mike Bloomberg) rammed the mosque permit through very much on the basis of their approval of its speech content, all while pretending to be acting on the basis of content neutrality. The details are worth recalling.
The Ground Zero mosque site, 51 Park Place, is actually part of Ground Zero. From the beginning, this was Imam Rauf’s explicit rationale for wanting to build there:
The location was precisely a key selling point for the group of Muslims who bought the building in July. A presence so close to theWorldTradeCenter, “where a piece of the wreckage fell,” said Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the cleric leading the project, “sends the opposite statement to what happened on 9/11.”
“We want to push back against the extremists,” added Imam Feisal, 61.
Right, push back against the extremists. That’s why Rauf named his project “The Cordoba Initiative,” a name that dovetails with the first sentence of Osama bin Laden’s proclaimed justification for the 9/11 attacks:
Let the whole world know that we shall never accept that the tragedy of Andalusia will be repeated inPalestine. We cannot accept that Palestinewill become Jewish.
Cordoba was the Muslim capital of Andalusia (the Iberian peninsula when it was controlled by the Moors). Bin Laden in-effect named his attack “the Andalusia initiative,” and Rauf just changed “Andalusia” to its closest synonym. Both seek to bring the entire world under sharia law (the instrument of Islamic rule). About this, Rauf brooks no compromise:
And since a Shari’ah is understood as a law with God at its center, it is not possible in principle to limit the Shari’ah to some aspects of human life and leave out others.
So how does Rauf have a constitutional right to build his Islamic victory mosque on a piece of Ground Zero, which Obama himself describes as “hallowed ground”? Here is the Harvard Law grad’s attempt at an explanation:
Recently, attention has been focused on the construction of mosques in certain communities — particularlyNew York. Now, we must all recognize and respect the sensitivities surrounding the development of lowerManhattan. The 9/11 attacks were a deeply traumatic event for our country. And the pain and the experience of suffering by those who lost loved ones is just unimaginable. So I understand the emotions that this issue engenders. And ground zero is, indeed, hallowed ground.
But let me be clear [get ready for obfuscation]. As a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country. And that includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America. And our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country and that they will not be treated differently by their government is essential to who we are.
As Obama spokesman Bill Burton tried to clarify the next day:
What he said last night, and reaffirmed today, is that if a church, a synagogue or a Hindu temple can be built on a site, you simply cannot deny that right to those who want to build a mosque.
Ah yes, the perfectly impossible “if.” There is not a snowball’s chance in Hell that any other private religious group would ever be allowed to claim a part of Ground Zero in order to promote their ideological perspective on the 9/11 attacks. Partisan secular groups would also be barred, by the very mechanisms Obama mentioned: “local laws and ordinances.”
New York City‘s speech-content-based review process
The relevant permitting bodies were New York City’s Community Board 1 and the Landmarks Commission. CB1 approved the mosque on the basis of the views they thought it represented (that is, this government body’s decision was not speech-content neutral):
Community Board 1 member Rob Townley called the plan a “seed of peace,” a message repeated by mosque supporters throughout the night.
“We believe that this is a significant step in the Muslim community to counteract the hate and fanaticism in the minority of the community,” he said.
Unfortunately, that hateful and fanatical minority is well represented by Imam Rauf. The Board’s thinking here is the same as with the Crescent of Embrace memorial to Flight 93, which was favored by some Flight 93 family members precisely because it can be seen as a symbol of outreach to the Islamic world, leading one family member on the design contest jury to scream out:
I don’t want to reach out to those people. THEY MURDERED MY DAUGHTER!
Indeed they did. It is orthodox Islam that attacked us on 9/11 and orthodox Islam is what the Islamic crescent symbolizes (the flag of the last caliphate). Orthodox Islam is also what Imam Rauf preaches. There are moral Muslims—those who reject orthodox insistence on Islamic conquest and its systematic suppression of competing views—but Rauf is not one of them. He is orthodox to his core. He is one of the bad guys.
Then the Landmarks Commission, which is supposed to look at both architectural and historic significance, conducted a review that was limited exclusively to the question of whether the building’s “Italian Renaissance palazzo style” was historic enough to warrant protection. They explicitly left the 9/11 connection out of their review, only considering an application for historic status that had been submitted long before 9/11 (ibid):
The Landmarks Commission has had a pending application for landmark status for the site since 1989, de Bourbon said. The application had been on hold for more than two decades but was recently reinstated after a review by the commission.
She insisted the current review is unrelated to the controversy surrounding the proposed mosque and Islamic center.
“This is a totally separate issue,” de Bourbon told ABCNews.com.
The president himself calls the site “hallowed ground” (he was referring to Ground Zero in general when he said that, but the specific subject was the Ground Zero mosque), yet the Landmarks Commission never even considered whether having several of its floors penetrated by the landing gear from Flight 175 might be even a little bit historic.
It is obviously legitimate for cities and states and even the federal government to keep ideological claimants off of our most historic properties, yet even normally intelligent people like Eugene Volokh failed to question the “if” in the Obama administration’s “if a church, a synagogue or a Hindu temple can be built on a site”:
[T]he legal issue is open and shut. The Free Exercise Clause means that the government may not discriminate against an entity because of its religious denomination.
Sorry Eugene, but your “open” and your “shut” both wiff the issue, which has nothing to do with the denomination in question. As the historical review board’s tortured avoidance of the historical connection to 9/11 made clear, if the building were seen as connected to 9/11 then no religious or political group of any stripe would be allowed to claim it for their own soap box. The assumption that other religious groups or the Tea Party would be allowed to do this is ludicrous.
If Con Edison succeeds in evicting Rauf’s group from Park 51 for non-payment of back rent then maybe some well-heeled Tea Party member can pick it up and announce plans for a freedom museum that highlights the anti-liberty ideology of those who attacked us on 9/11. Just make sure to note that 51 Park Avenue is the perfect location because it was actually struck on 9/11. Then we’d see how quickly New York City’s Landmarks Commission would declare the building’s 9/11 connection historic, subjecting building plans to heightened scrutiny and giving the lie to their earlier pretense of content neutrality. Refusing to consider any historical connection to 9/11 is not neutral!
Bloomberg, of course
The whole process was manipulated by mayor Bloomberg who appointed the members of the Landmarks Commission and worked constantly behind the scenes to get the mosque built, to the point where he was credibly accused by the NY Post of engaging in state establishment religion:
Bloomberg’s community affairs commissioner even ghost-wrote a letter to CB1 on behalf of Daisy Khan, wife of mosque promoter Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf. Meanwhile, officials intervened to obtain permits so that prayers could be conducted at the site.
Bloomberg’s rationale was pure appeasement:
To cave to popular sentiment would be to hand a victory to the terrorists.
If we don’t coddle Muslims says Bloomberg (and to hell with the Constitution), they will feel alienated and will want to attack us again. It’s just like his instinct on guns: when under attack, quick disarm! Then the attacker won’t feel threatened and maybe won’t kill you so much. Cowardly pea brain. But as the Post noted, the immediate problem is the unconstitutionality of it:
Government has no business advocating for any religion. That’s the principle that chased Nativity scenes from the public square.
Leave it to Mike Bloomberg to cherry-pick one ofAmerica’s founding principles.
Unconstitutional support for Islam and unconstitutional attacks on Christianity by a cadre of fruitcakes who are obsessed with homosexual marriage. The unprincipled irrationality of these people knows no bounds.
Then nearest Chick-fil-A is over an hour’s drive for me, but the wife and I are driving there on August 1st for Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day.
We were were at Chick-fil-A for lunch.
4 LA sheriffs were there in the parking lot….just in case.
No protestors, no to-do at all.
Just great food.
(I love carrot and raisin salad and hubby loves soft-serve ice cream)
Chik-fil-A has been around since 1946.
1946!
No to-do until now!
Obama only changed his stance a few weeks ago…..coincidence?
Chick-fil-A 100% supports 11 foster care homes in Georgia, Tennessee and Alabama!
They also have a scholarship program that has awarded $30,000,000 in funds to college scholarships to certain qualified franchised Operator Restaurant employees.
There were employees of all races at the one I went to today.
All were cheerful and helpful and on the spot.
Now, Islam in the USA…..
“Those who stay in America should be open to society without melting, keeping Mosques open so anyone can come and learn about Islam. If you choose to live here, you have a responsibility to deliver the message of Islam … Islam isn’t in America to be equal to
any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book
of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the
only accepted religion on Earth.” Omar Ahmad, co-founder of CAIR.
Ghassan Elashi-
Founder Of CAIR-Texas
Chairman of Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development
Sentenced To 65 Years In Federal Prison
Committed Terrorist Crimes While Working For CAIR
Tried on 21 counts of conspiracy, money laundering and dealing
in property of a terrorist.
Found guilty on all 21 counts.
Two Muslim men, Saad Elorch and Abdulgader Ruddad, brutally attacked two gay Georgetown Medical students….simply for the state of being gay. One of the men was knocked out after being hit with a bottle.
According to their books homosexuality is haram, forbidden.
The punishment varies from one Sharia state to the next.
Lesbians can be jailed and ”re-educated” then married to a strong enough man to keep her in line.
Male homosexuals might get lashes, enslaved or killed by various means.
Odd bedfellows these liberals have.
Just some random points.
Has a Chick-fil-A been denied a permit since the controversy erupted? The headline implies “yes,” but I don’t see any discussion.
Personally, I wish CEOs et al would not publicize their political and religious beliefs. Oh, they can donate money, fund organizations, etc — I just don’t want to know about it …. BECAUSE if a company whose product I really really like turns out to be run/owned by someone whose values I loathe then I’m stuck with a moral dilemma.
Whatever happened to the business concept of “good will”?
Whatever happened to tolerance – ??…Oh, I’m sorry – that has become one sided….
Hollyweird, Liberals, ignorant comedians spew their rhetoric and vile comments in direct ‘personal’ attacks against persons and they are cheered and applauded for it….what does that tell you??
@gracie:
Good questions and points, gracie.
Permitting is a process.
In Chicago, Alderman Joe Moreno wants the city to deny a permit to build a Chick-fil-A restaurant in his district, because of “bigoted, homophobic comments” by the owner of the chain. Moreno is quite clear: “Because of this man’s ignorance, I will now be denying Chick-fil-A’s permit to open a restaurant in the 1st Ward.“http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-07-25/news/ct-met-chicago-chick-fil-a-20120725_1_1st-ward-gay-marriage-ward-alderman
Whether or not this ignorant man’s will gets overturned by calmer (more legally-minded) heads as the process continues is only a matter of time to be seen.
The ACLU’s senior attorney weighed in:
http://www.newsmax.com/newswidget/chick-fil-a-gay-marriage-chicago/2012/07/26/id/446713?promo_code=EACE-1&utm_source=&utm_medium=nmwidget&utm_campaign=widgetphase1
I don’t really see an inconsistency in being against both homophobia and Islamophobia. Both stances spring from the same feelings of wanting to respect differences and not oppress minorities. A conviction like that isn’t going to fall prey to a silly “choose one or the other” mentality.
If one is looking for a prime example of false equivalence, look no further than the glaring heart of this post. Despite all the hyperbole, who exactly is the official embracing these two allegedly irreconcilable stances? So the mayor of New York thinks one thing about a mosque, and the mayor of Boston thinks another about a chicken stand, and this proves… what exactly? I am left with no choice but to assume this is just a lazy setup to rant about homosexuals and Muslim. And if that’s me being lazy, well I came to the right thread.
Every time an imam of an American mosque preaches from his platform that gays MUST be killed, the Left minimizes him.
Mayor Menino of Boston.
The Islamic Society of Boston built and run Menino’s Mosque. One of the people they turned to for fundraising help, and whose teachings they have handed out to Boston-area Muslims, Yusuf Abdullah al-Qaradawi, a prominent Islamic cleric.
Here’s al-Qaradawi on homosexuality:
From this link in the OP…..
http://michaelgraham.com/archives/the-imam-who-inspired-menino-rsquo-s-mosque-lists-the-many-ways-to-kill-gays/
@Nan G:
It’s refreshing to see a Conservative lady who has so much concern for homosexuals and their well being. I feel like I recall you mentioning that you’re religious (please correct me if I’m wrong). What is your religion’s teachings on homosexuality?
@Tom:
You said:
“I really don’t see an inconsistancy in being against both homophobia and Islamophobia.”
The problem with that statement is that you have to operate from the premise that homophobia and Islamophobia are rampant in this nation. They are not. But to people like you, any disagreement with the politically correct mantra has to be labeled, hence, the terms “homophobia” and “Islamophobia.”
Phobia means fear, and I don’t think Americans, on the whole, are fearful of either gays or Muslims. If they were, we would see more criminal acts against homosexuals, and on 9-12-2001, there would have been massive burnings of mosques, as well as destruction of Muslim owned businesses, in this country. Instead, crime against Muslims is the lowest on the FBI hate crime ratings, with crime against Jews being the highest.
Both terms were invented by those who were pushing their own agenda. Homophobia is basically non-existant as most people, although they may not agree with the gay lifestyle for whatever reason (religion being on one) but they don’t hate gays as people. Islamophobia was a term created by CAIR, the unindicted co-conspirator in the Holyland Foundation trial. CAIR is one group that should be abolished in this country as seditious, yet those who run it are allowed to make statements that they are working toward the day that the Crescent and Star fly over the White House.
People who claim there is Islamophobia also fail to educate themselves to the reality that the entire west is at war with Islam, no matter what political leaders say. Islam declared war on the U.S., and I doubt that you even know the reason ObL picked the date of September 11 to carry out his dastardly deed. You only know how to throw out the key words and phrases that have been repeated ad nauseam by the left who is hoping the alligator eats them last.
@retire05:
Sorry, but that’s nonsense. I don’t have to “operate” from any premise aside from the simple one I stated. Let’s review: I don’t hate gays or Muslims because they’re different than me. Simple see? If you feel differently, that’s your business. I consider myself an open-minded person, but you have an annoyingly predictable and tiresome way in how you justify your “feelings”, and I have to say, I find myself not caring about your opinions. They’re not outlandish in an interesting way, just bitter, small-minded, and pinched. Forgive me for being so blunt. I know I should be more curious about a living anachronism.
@Tom:
“I consider myself an open-minded person.”
Which is liberal speak for “I am an enlightened person, not bound by pettty human opinions, unlike you knuckle-dragging conservatives who cling to your guns and God.” In reality, Tom, you are not open-minded, you are programme to spout the left wing mantra. Of course, you throw in how you really are untouched by my comments, not caring what I say, go on to insult, yet you respond to me anyway. Sorry, bub, I stopped buying left wing excuse making a long time ago.
Are there individuals in the U.S. that are homophobic? Yes. Are there individuals in the U.S. that are Islamophobic? Yes. But the left generalized those conditions as if they were pandemic. They are not. And ironically, the most homophobic segment of our society are Muslims. If you really were such an open-minded person, as in being open to the truth, you would not be spewing the left wing talking points. Get back to me when gay bars and mosques are being burned to the ground.
I just got back from our ~90 mile round trip to Chick-fil-A for “Appreciation Day”. It was awesome and I wouldn’t have missed it for the world! The wife and I got there at 11:30 AM and the line of cars was backed up all the way to the Interstate and the parking lot was completely full. We had to park in the Wal-Mart lot about 200 yards away and there was a big crowd of smiling people doing the same and walking over to Chick-fil-A.
The lobby was wall-to-wall people – most were waiting to order and some were waiting for their food. I was amazed that the staff wasn’t in full panic mode, but they acted like this madhouse was completely normal. The staff was all very cheerful like I was told to expect, and they even had a “concierge” milling around directing traffic and another young woman with a big smile delivering bags of food after calling out the patron’s name. The crowd, as well as the staff, was amazingly polite. Someone way in the back would call out, “Can somebody pass me a spoon?” and it would be passed hand-to-hand back through the crowd. When the waitress would call out someone’s name, some of the men would shout it out louder since the waitress’s voice was getting a little weak by then.
It took roughly 20 minutes to get my food after I ordered, but I passed the time chatting with the people around me. We all agreed that the faux-outrage by the gay fascists in Chicago, Boston, and San Francisco had really backfired. One elderly lady asked me, “Did you notice that nobody from the local media is here to take photos?” I raised my camera and answered, “We don’t care about them, now do we?”
The logistics of all this really amazed me. I was fully expecting them to run out of food, but when I left about noon, they were still serving. They must have really planned ahead and stocked up on everything. I had the Deluxe Spicy Chicken sandwich, waffle fries, and a strawberry shake. It was all surprisingly good and the shake was even better than the In-n-Out Burger shakes out in California.
I wish I could post some photos I took.
Edit: I’ve received first hand reports from friends in PA and FL, and it was the same there: Massive crowds of people. I truly love it.
@Tom:
Tom, this is for you:
As opposed to Islam where their ”god” is so piss-poor at doing anything that they each take it upon themselves to mete out what they THINK their ”god” might want done, in MY religion (I am a Christian) people are loved for themselves, warts and all.
Everyone is a sinner, falling short of our God’s Perfect’s son as our example.
So we all have faults.
And we all have weaknesses.
Homosexuals are no different.
And any one of those, carried out without repentance about it, can take us to the second death from which there is no hope of redemption.
BUT, as one Bible writer pointed out so clearly: people can CHANGE.
As long as we breathe we can change.
So, we also follow God’s admonition to let vengance be with Him and not through ourselves.
IF God finds someone unworthy of eternal life, that’s between the person and God.
We simply live as good examples of imperfect humans and hope our constant repentance about our own failings cover over our own sins.
“Hate the sin but love the sinner.”
The turnout for Chick-fil-A today has been tremendous!
Our local ones even made the local news for their traffic jamming popularity today.
National news is also covering the happening.
Also covered (even though it hasn’t happened yet) is the ”kiss-in” at all Chick-fil-A’s scheduled for tomorrow.
That spicy chicken sandwich is killer with a bit of their buffalo sauce on each bite!
The lemonade and carrot & raisin salad cool you back down.
Buffalo sauce? They have buffalo sauce? Damn, I’m going to have to go back for some of that!
@Tom:
That would seem to beg the question Tom. In fact it seems to beg several questions.
1) Do the people you disagree with actually hate gays and Muslim “because they’re different”?
2) Are you just insinuating that the people who disagree with you hate Muslims and gays because it is an easy cheap way to vilify those with whom you disagree? [Kind of like the way you insinuated the I was racist because I wrote that corrupt slumlord Valarie Jarrett was born in Iran?]
3) Do you think perhaps that those with whom you disagree may have meaningful public policy objections to gay marriage?
4) Are you not aware that mainstream Christianity teaches its followers NOT to hate gays or Muslims?
5) Are you not aware that normative Islam teaches its followers not only to hate gays and to hate Christian and to hate Jews and to hate Buddhist and to hate Hindus …. but that normative Islam teaches its followers to kill hate gays and to kill Christian and to kill Jews and to kill Buddhist and to kill Hindus …. ? Think Sharia Tom.
6) The deadly racial-religious-political supramacism of the Waffen-SS paralleled that of normative Islam. Would it be OK to hate the Waffen-SS because they’re different than you Tom?
@Tom:
Do I detect sarcasm?
But as you asked here’s mine Tom:
Catechism of the Catholic Church
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
@Mike O’Malley:
Mike, there’s nothing more tiresome than turning a conversation into an interrogation. I get it. You’re a member of every majority and power group in this country, by a long shot, and yet you feel like a besieged victim and you’re bitter about it. You self-identify with a religion that’s caused it’s fair share of misery and strife over the past two millennia, but you see no contradiction in judging millions of strangers by the doctrines they allegedly subscribe to, even though I doubt you yourself live the perfect Catholic life we both learned as alterboys. Like everyone else, you have issues in your life, but unlike some, the light of inquiry never shines inward – there are plenty of demons in the gloaming to sight if you look hard enough. You’re a smart guy, but your perception has no self-awareness. Two groups of people I never trust: mindless zealots and people who think they’re never wrong. I can’t discount you from inclusion in either group, Mike.
@Tom:
Is that so
knucklehead? I’m Irish Catholic? Do you have a clue about American history Tom?.
And I doubt you have either the intellectual and the moral integrity to answer this question.
Showing I’m wrong Tom. Give us a straight answer to that question.
@Mike O’Malley:
So am I Mike. This is 2012 though. Do you know who is the modern day version of the guy who used to look at our ancestors with suspicion and distrust, who thought they were un-American slaves to Rome? Who is that guy,Mike?
@Mike O’Malley:
That’s great, Mike. I’m happy you’re happy in your religious convictions. Unfortunately, those aren’t facts. This isn’t a debate about Catholic scripture.
Here’s something maybe you can help me with, Mike. Why was it foreordained that if the Climate Change question was going to break down along political lines, it would clearly break down with Conservatives as denier? Now I know there are people on both sides of this, but I mean in general. What is it about the Right in that regard, that they’re always so positive in their static vision of the world, that they reflexively react against anything new? There’s that lack of skepticism I was talking about, Mike, that inability to question oneself. One thing I will give the Right: they are resilient in the face of failure. When they finally accept Climate Change it will be like all the reversals that came before, right back to the Church finally accepting that the Earth rotates around the Sun. Then they’ll fearlessly charge ahead to the next blunder.
I have to ask, Mike. In all seriousness, if you had been a 17th century believer, how would you have reacted to hearing Galileo’s claims? Clearly you put all stock in the infallibility of the Church’s teachings. When you’re lecturing me about scripture, and incidentally playing with real peoples’ lives and happiness, how rock solid is the ground you stand on, I wonder?
@Tom:
Sure I’ve worked with any number of them. I was fired early on in my career because I was Catholic by a fellow who went about telling me that “some of his best friends were Catholic”. Others? Quite a few. On rare occasion I’ve come across an old-fashion WASP bigot but almost invariably now-a-days they are college educated Left-Progressives. They will frame their anti-Catholicism in politically correct terminology, but it is the same nasty old wine in new skins. After a while I’ve come to sardonically think of them of “People of Tolerance”.
@Mike O’Malley:
Oh, Mike. You just don’t get it. You’re not going to get me to agree with your broad brush strokes. I am sure there are individual Muslims worthy of my hatred, as there were obviously Nazis who joined the SS. You know what, there is a Cardinal or two that the Vatican is hiding out in Rome that is pretty evil too. So should I hate you because you share the same beliefs as Bernard Francis Law? This is what happens when you only know how to wield a broad brush, Mike. Be prepared to be caught up in the brush stokes.
For the record, many, if not most, of the finest people I have ever met are pious Catholics. They don’t spend an awful lot of time worrying about whom to hate.
@Tom:
Dude! Galileo was W-R-O-N-G! On the science that is. The Sun is NOT the center of the Universe as Galileo said it was. 20th century science proved Galileo wrong after 19th century science incorrectly proved Galileo right.
Where Galileo was R-I-G-H-T though was how certain passages in the Old Testament should be interpreted. It turns out the Galileo was dead-on … except he couldn’t prove it scientifically. No one could prove it scientifically until the 19th century. Because no could preform a sufficiently accurate stellar parallax until the 19th century.
Tom, you would seem not to understand the science involved nor the history of the controversy.
Galileo’s Mistake: A New Look at the Epic Confrontation Between Galileo and the Church
@Mike O’Malley:
I’m sorry, Mike. Like I said, I am often wrong. Maybe I meant Capernicus. Anyway, my point stands. Science has proven The Church incorrect many times. The Church has acknowledged this. I don’t expect you to agree, because we’ve already diagnosed that you’re never wrong.
@Tom:
But not the Waffen-SS as a whole? Hmmm, I’ve been graced with the friendship of Holocaust survivors who would beg to differ with you Tom and in the end the Holocaust of the Nazis was of little moral or fatal difference from it antecedent and role model, the Armenian-Syriac-Chaldean-Pontic and Aramian Holocaust of circa 1915.
So the Waffen SS kills six or seven million defenseless Jews and the Young Turks kill six million or so defenseless Christians and you Tom concede there may just be a few bad apple among the Nazis and the Jihadists who might raise your righteous ire?
.
And what this about Cardinal Bernard Francis Law? Why not Cardinal Roger Michael Mahony? And more importantly why not the legion of unfaithful homosexual priests who actually engaged in the sexual predation?
@Mike O’Malley:
Did I state any of those opinions, Mike? Looks like you’re going to have to show us. If you can’t, you’re clearly stupid or you’re a liar. But which? I’d plead stupid if I were you. It’s not breaking one of the Ten Commandments, which would make you no better than a Nazi is God’s eye.
@Tom:
You mean Nicolaus Copernicus, the Catholic Priest who first proposed the hypothesis about Hellicentrism?
By 1533 Pope Clement VII and several Catholic cardinals heard the scientific lectures about Fr. Copernicus’ emerging hypothesis. They were quite interested in the theory and positively inclined. Three years later Cardinal Nikolaus von Schönberg wrote the following from Rome to Fr. Copernicus:
Father Copernicus thereafter dedicated his masterpiece, De Revolutionibus Orbium Coelestium, To Pope Paul III.
There would be no modern science without the Roman Catholic Church.
The Sun in the Church: Cathedrals as Solar Observatories
@Tom:
Say Tom, why not take a step back and then a deep breath and think about what you have a chance to learn from my posts to you.
Frankly from my fallen vantage it is a great moral good not to hate a single Nazi or Muslim or Communist et cetera. But hate comes so very easy and naturally to us … and if you have suffered terribly at the hands of the Waffen SS, or at the hands of Communists as some of those I’ve known have, it is very hard not to hate. It may require the strength of saint not to hate. How do I know? Well in part because the Buddhist monks, personal aids to His Holiness the Dalai Lama, told me so …
@Mike O’Malley:
I don’t need to learn life lessons from superstitious, bigoted liars, Mike. You’re incapable of having an h0nest discussion.
@Tom:
But Tom you do need some schoolin’ … and perhaps a time contemplating that part about superstition bigots and liars in front of a mirror …
And in the end…
ALL YOU HAVE LEFT IS CHICKEN…