The Martin/Zimmerman timeline [Reader Post]

Bees: it will get worse, because they won, on the back of a good man who had no option but to save his life in the face of extreme assault, on the stage he was protecting the people from crimes

Bees, it’s been obvious that you have decided Martin was a punk thug, and Zimmerman sits on a shiny white horse. I think neither are true, and I think both individuals were flawed in handling the situation. The teen years are always filled with the arrogance of youth. At 18, we all knew everything and no adult could tell us differently. It’s not until we are humbled by life that we realize we’ll never know it all.

But I find it callous, and naively susceptible, that you express nothing but venom for a youth that you have decided is a thug and a punk, and only mourn for the man who took his life. I really need to remind you of what you seem determined to overlook.

1: That supposed “good” man, as you call him, relentlessly followed and killed an unarmed teen.
2: He was protecting no one from crimes because Martin was not doing anything illegal, and had full reason to be in that neighborhood.

Whether that killing was justified as self defense only a court of law – not you or I – can decide because there are more questions than answers. And apparently the prosecutor has seen enough collected evidence that charges were warranted. One of things that will be brought up is if, even in self defense, a gun was excessive and unnecessary force to repeal any theoretical attack by Martin.

As I pointed out on the thread about Zimmerman being charged, even those who accidentally kill a pedestrian or bicyclist in a vehicle accident can be charged with involuntary or voluntary manslaughter. I also linked to several recent cases, including last week’s arrest of a Tacoma mother who is charged with manslaughter and criminal neglect. Why? Because she and her boyfriend made the poor decision to leave his concealed carry weapon under the front seat in the car while they went into a gas station convenience market, and her three year old (who wasn’t restrained in his car seat), got a hold of it and killed himself.

Generally when there is a death involved, and some irresponsible actions done by the one who did the killing, it’s not uncommon for some charge to arise and be addressed in a court of law. Someone is dead. The circumstances, unless undeniably clear cut and witnessed from start to finish, need to be explored.

The first item to go on trial will be the Stand Your Ground law itself. They will have, in the pretrial period, what they call an “Immunity Hearing”. No jury. This will be before a judge who will then decide if the Stand Your Ground law is applicable.

If he says it is, no trial and Zimmerman will again walk free. At the same time, it will be the kiss of death for that law, and all similar laws in the nation, because Congress will do something on a federal level. Certainly the intent of the law was never to cover a situation where I started following you around when you’re not doing anything wrong, a fight starts between us, and I kill you… then I claim it was because I was in fear for my life. Such a scenario has potential for great abuse. I can instigate a fight with anyone I want, take a few hits and blow them away… and know I will be walking free.

If the SYG is not applicable, Zimmerman proceeds to a jury trial unless he wants to plea bargain. That’s a two to tango moment, meaning the prosecutor will have to want to accept that plea bargain.

I’m pretty darned sure the defense will petition to move the venue (trial) to another county in Florida. I think that’s a wise decision for Zimmerman. He will have his day in court, and should. The burden is on the prosecutor, not Zimmerman, to prove the charges. If the prosecutor’s collected evidence does not convince a jury – beyond *all reasonable doubt* – that Zimmerman did not act in justifiable self defense, he will be acquitted.

This is the way the system is supposed to work. It’s his due process. It’s also due process for Martin’s family.

Nan G: I’m surprised at you pointing out Trayvon’s lack of a criminal record for his drugs and burglary tools

And I’m equally surprised at you, filling in the blanks for offenses he did not commit, Nan G. I suspect all of us own “burglary tools”. Yet there is no record of him committing a burglary. As far as an empty baggie, well the amount of people I know that are upstanding, tax paying citizens – and also smoke pot – would fill volumes. As a matter of fact, according to a 2009 survey, 16.7 million Americans, aged 12 and above, smoke pot at least once a month. (and that’s only those that admit it…) About the only danger I’d feel around those who are stoned is whether a bag of Cheetos I had was in mortal danger. We have no proof he was a distributor of pot, or if he did whether this was a business he was in.

Know anyone that smokes? Speeds? Doesn’t wear their seatbelt? Run a red light during a quiet evening hour? Has driven while on alcohol but not falling down drunk? What are they doing but “skirting” the system of justice?

Possession 20 grams or less… 8 grams shy of an ounce – is a 1st degree misdemeanor. This is an example of a budding criminal? Have you any idea how many 60s hippies and marijuana users hold down not only “solid citizen” jobs, but hold elected offices? Is it any more horrendous than one who is hooked on prescription drugs?

You have no idea who Martin was, his character or his future. But what you suggest is not on his official records. Was he the model teen in your view, who went to church, never uttered a curse word, never did anything out of line or pushed limits? Of course not. In fact, I daresay the majority of teens aren’t like that. I know I sure wasn’t. Hang, even adults, for that matter.

Your judgment call on Martin is over the top, IMHO. And it seems you’ll apply that strict yardstick to Martin, but resent when the same is applied to Zimmerman. He had a past as well as a young adult, with things not as benign as having an empty baggie or owning common tools that may, or may not, be used in a burglary.

Neither were saints. And the past of either has no bearing on that evening’s events. Martin may, or may not have handled a perceived threat well, but he didn’t deserve death. Another was the adult, with the responsibility of permitted concealed carry. He most certainly should have know better as well.

Brian: The DOJ, well this DOJ may charge GZ whether he goes to trial or has SYG cited in pretrial and Corey’s case thrown out.

The federal investigation is a completely different view. They are investigating if it constitutes a “hate crime”. Nothing to do with SYG, a state statute, or his trial for the second degree murder charges (also state jurisdiction, not federal).

SYG, if Zimmerman and his attorney choose to invoke it, will be decided in front of a judge only in a pretrial evidentiary immunity hearing. A “mini” evidence presentation, so to speak. FL criminal attorneys say it’s not got a good success ratio, and only nine of the 140 times that SYG has been invoked (but not necessarily successfully used) have been granted immunity. Most attempts are denied and the case goes to jury trial anyway. Why? Because, unlike the standard burden being on the prosecutor to prove guilt, the onus of proving self defense lies on the defendant, as that is the intent of the statute.

Criminal defense attorneys are mixed on doing so since it gives the prosecution a preview of their defense strategy.

BTW, I don’t believe the majority of people think that Zimmerman “maliciously” hunted down Martin, nor set out with the intent to kill. Neither does the prosecutor, or they would likely have gone for first degree murder. Instead, poor judgement and bad decisions created conditions that led to the final outcome.