You lie! Obama claims that Islam teaches the law of love [Reader Post]

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At last Thursday’s National Prayer Breakfast Obama claimed that his policies are motivated by “God’s command to ‘love thy neighbor as thyself’.” He then conflated this law of love with the golden rule, and made a blatantly dishonest claim about Islam:

I know the version of that Golden Rule is found in every major religion and every set of beliefs — from Hinduism to Islam to Judaism to the writings of Plato

In fact, Islam repeatedly and explicitly rejects the law of love, teaching instead a law of hate.

When Jesus was asked “who is my neighbor?” (Luke 10:29), he answered (via the parable of the good Samaritan) that everyone is everyone’s neighbor. Islam, in contrast, instructs Muslims to be good only to other Muslims. Koran, verse 48.29:

Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves.

Verse 3.28 says that Muslims can only pretend to befriend infidels:

Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them.

Of course we are very familiar with this in practice, as one revealed terror-plotter after another is described by surprised neighbors and co-workers as the nicest guy.

That” Golden Rule vs. “The” Golden Rule

I guess Obama can call the law of love “that Golden Rule” if he wants, but there actually is a corollary of the law love (implied by the law of love but not implying it) that is called THE Golden Rule: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” (Matthew 7:12). There is a hadith in Islam (a reported saying of Muhammad) that is similar in form to the Golden Rule, but opposite in substance. It only calls for goodwill towards other Muslims:

None of you will have faith till he wishes for his (Muslim) brother what he likes for himself.

Bukhari 1.2.13, translated by M. Muhsin Khan.

Preceding hadiths back up Kahn’s non-universalist translation of the Muslim version of the Golden Rule. Bukhari 1.2.10 reads:

The Prophet said, “A Muslim is the one who avoids harming Muslims with his tongue and hands…”

In Islam the principle of reciprocity is extended only between Muslims, which makes it a principle, not of reciprocity at all, but of bigotry and prejudice. Islam is the only religion of any significance that does not embrace a universal principle of reciprocity.

Islam rejects even the idea of cooperation. Koran, verse 9.28:

O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

i.e. Go broke rather than have dealings with infidels.

Not loving: the Koran’s endless instructions to subjugate and kill infidels

Verse 9.29:

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Another murderous verse (Koran 9.5) is the infamous “verse of the sword,” so central to traditional Islamic doctrine:

Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush.

Etcetera ad nauseum.

Well meaning left-wing multiculturalists convince themselves that these verses are no worse, and no more relevant, than God’s Old Testament instructions to the Jews to annihilate one people after another on their mission to conquer the promised land, but those were not universal instructions to conquer everybody. They are framed as specific permissions from God to attack a specific people at a specific place and time. In accordance with this specificity, these Bible verses have rarely if ever been used as a justification for aggressive conquest.

Not all Christians have always heeded the law of love in its properly universal Christian form, but that was no fault of the Bible, while to Christianity’s great credit its various churches have all long since dedicated themselves to understanding and following the law of love as well as flawed human beings are able, and Judaism has done the same.

Decades before Jesus declared that the commandments to love God and to Love your neighbor are all the law and the prophets, Rabbi Hillel had said the same about the golden rule:

“What is hateful to thee, do not unto thy fellow man: this is the whole Law; the rest is mere commentary.”

Orthodox Islam, in contrast, is aggressively carrying its law of hatred and violent aggression to every corner of the globe.

Our taqiyyist president

Obama quite obviously “don’t know much about history,” and “don’t know much about a science book,” but he does know the Koran. He studied it for years as a child and even took classes in “menjaji,” or Koran recitation in Arabic, which is the gold standard of fundamentalist Islamic education.

Hatred of the infidel is not hidden in Islam. It is the essence of it. No one can study Islam at all without comprehending this, and Obama surely does comprehend it. His claim that Islam embraces the law of love can only be a strategic lie, what in Islam is called taqiyya, and the fact that he seems to be engaging in taqiyya is pretty good evidence that Barack Hussein Obama actually is Muslim and is using the Oval Office to promote Islamic supremacism.

Obama’s claim that he is Christian, not Muslim, is not probative because Islam’s very first instruction to converts is that they should lie about their religion. Tabari 8.23 (one of the hadiths, or reported sayings of Muhammad):

en Nu’aym came to the Prophet. ‘I’ve become a Muslim, but my tribe does not know of my Islam; so command me whatever you will.’ Muhammad said, ‘Make them abandon each other if you can so that they will leave us; for war is deception.’

If Obama is Muslim, he would lie about it. Muslims who live amongst Christians are supposed to pretend that they are Christian, if by doing so they can advance the cause of Islamic conquest.

In one set of hadiths, Muhammad asks who will murder a man whose poetry Muhammad finds offensive. He then grants a volunteer (Muhammad bin Maslama) permission to lie to the victim in order to get close enough to do the deed, and the volunteer proceeds to pretend that he has turned against Muhammad (i.e. that he is no longer a Muslim). This is regarded by orthodox Islam as model behavior.

In sum, Obama is certainly lying about Islam, and hence is almost certainly an orthodox Muslim who embraces the Islamic law of hate. So what else is new? Honestly, we knew this before the 2008 election.

(As for the sheer destructiveness of the policies that Obama claims to be required by love, don’t be such a wuss: “You’ve gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet.”)

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IS that what AMERICA IS BECOMING for some of you ? using THE LAWS OF THE LAND
to rationalize the group of haters in AMERICA, YOU PUT A VEIL OF IT’S OKAY WHAT THEY DO, A VEIL OF YOUR THINKING PROCESS IS OKAY, A VEIL OF THINKING THAT TERRORIST IS JUST A HUMAN BEING AND I KNOW HIM AS A FRIEND, THEREFOR HE IS NOT A TERRORIST READY TO LEAVE A BOMB TO KILL
AMERICANS. CARY, YES YOU ARE BIGOT BECAUSE YOU ATTACK MY FRIENDS WHO PROVIDE PLEASURE TO ME,
TOM THERE CANNOT BE BAD PEOPLE, BECAUSE I HAVEN’T SEEN THEM, BECAUSE OBAMA TOLD US THEY ARE OKAY, HE INVITED THEM IN THE WHITE HOUSE SO THAT MEANS THEY ARE NOT DANGEROUS,
IS THAT WHAT THE YOUNG ARE BEING TEACH? THEY SAY IT’S OKAY TO CHANGE THE LAWS OF THE LAND AGAIN TO SUIT YOUR LEADER,NEFARIOUS INTENTS,
WHAT IS HAPPENING IN AMERICA, ? YOU DARE TO COME HERE AND USE THE HATER’S WORDS ON AMERICANS, WITHIN AMERICA,
CARY AND TOM AND YOUR ALIKE FRIENDS ARE THE WRONG SIDES OF THE LOGIC EQUATION OF WHAT AMERICA IS TRULY ABOUT, GET SOME HELP, BECAUSE YOU AR DEGENARATING OTHER WITH YOU, AND HAVING FUN DOING IT,

@Alec Rawls #6:

H.: Yeah Ron, we all know there’s no such thing as a conspiracy. Those airplanes flying into the WTC were a total accident.

My guess is that Ron is referring to

1) A blanket belief that all Muslims must selectively practice Islam in the cartoon stereotype portrayed in your post.

2) That President Obama is a closet Muslim, a takfir exercising taqiyya (a Shia practice).

The idea that President Obama is a Muslim belongs right up there with birthers and 9/11 truthers.

@Smorgasbord #41:

I always try to be neutral about new things I learn. After I started hearing about the possibility that Obama might be a Muslim, I tried to keep track of the things he says and does about the religion.

THINGS THAT MAKE ME WONDER IF HE IS MUSLIM
(1) He refused to say the National Anthem or wear the US flag pin until enough people complained about it.

Really? Based on what? One still photo showing his hands over his crotch instead of over his heart? A couple of photos?

And even if his actions should be judged and condemned by the flag-wavers on the right and the keepers of all things patriotic, how does his non-show of patriotic gestures translate as evidence of his being Muslim?

(2) He says Muslim is a religion that teaches love.

And so do a vast number of liberal multiculturalists, mainstream Americans, and Muslims who actually believe this and do practice this.

Again, how is his saying it make him a Muslim? Reminder:

In a score of speeches since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the president has called for tolerance of Muslims, describing Islam as “a faith based upon peace and love and compassion” and a religion committed to “morality and learning and tolerance.”

Because President Bush calls Islam a religion of peace, going by your logic, does this mean Bush might be a closet Muslim?!

(3) He is siding with Muslim countries.

By imposing sanctions against Syria? Rejecting Palestinian statehood and vetoing UN resolution against Israel “settlements”? Angering Pakistanis by Predator drone attacks against real threats to America and greenlighting the killing of Osama bin Laden by invading a Muslim country’s borders and disregarding its sovereignty? Is this how he sides with Muslim countries?

(4) He refused to call the Fort Hood massacre a terrorist act by an individual.

As do many politically-correct liberals.

My conspiracy theory conclusion: President Obama is a liberal Democrat. I know. Quite shocking.

(5) He wants the National Anthem changed to, “I want to teach the world to sing,” because it isn’t as warlike as our National Anthem is.

Good point. Never thought of that one…damn.

Now I think you’re just being a smartass…so not sure whether to take your point #6 as wit or if you’re actually serious:

(6) He prays to Allah five times a day (just guessing).

Yup…just guessing.

For President Obama to kneel on a prayer rug facing Mecca 5 times a day and have this kept secret from the American public…..just wow.

@anticsrocks #42:

Being lazy and not being able to defend your position.

I can sympathize with Cary here because I’m weary of this. It’s been hashed out a number of times already and I just don’t have the time, energy, and frankly not much interest in arguing with conservatives I generally agree with, knowing this goes on forever without much in the way of results for my time.

My blog-habits have dwindled over the yrs due to time constraints and loss of interest.

@anticsrocks:

: You forgot that he also wants to call the Ft. Hood shooting, “workplace violence“.

Sen. Susan Collins on Wednesday blasted the Defense Department for classifying the Fort Hood massacre as workplace violence and suggested political correctness is being placed above the security of the nation’s Armed Forces at home. – Source

Think about that.

How far to the left do you have to be for Collins to publicly attack you from the right…?

I was expecting the direct quote of President Obama- not the one of Collins and the DoD.

There’s a number of public relations decisions like this- based around public relations, political correctness and sensitivities and strategy- that aren’t directly attributable to the President of the U.S.

Happened under the previous President Bush as well in waging the GWoT.

@anticsrocks #45:

One question – is someone a racist because they point out racist actions perpetrated by another person or group?

Based upon what Alec presented in his post, I’m with Cary in labeling this bigotry. Alec notes in his comments “orthodox” Islam (I’ll leave that one aside); but makes no distinctions, otherwise.

@Tom 48:

Here’s some free advice: don’t publish if you can’t handle criticism of your (deeply) flawed argument. Up above I labeled your premise “flawed”. Why? Because your premise is Obama is a “liar” who “made a blatantly dishonest claim about Islam”. Reading that, I would expect you to present evidence that he’s a liar, proof that he willingly and deliberately mislead the public with false statements. You do nothing of the sort. You sidestep the main premise and move on to what is basically an argument that your interpretation of two religious texts is better than your strawman conjurings of what you imagine are Obama’s interpretations.

Perfect, tom! Very well-put.

that if he’s a liar he must be a Muslim? Are all liars Muslims?

And are all Muslims liars?

@Alec Rawls #49:

I just commented directly on the one obvious lie that is the subject of the post: Obama’s claiming that Islam embraces the law of love when ANYONE who has ever studied Islam at all knows that the religion explicitly and repeatedly calls on Muslims to hate their non-Muslim neighbors. That certainly includes Obama. And no, this is not an “innocuous” lie.

It is a distortion from self-styled Islamic experts who have read one too many Robert Spencer books and politically-incorrect guides to Islam and not enough balancing the reads (which do have valid critiques to make) with non-anti-Islamic readings.

This post only pushes a distorted painting- not an enlightening one. And it only serves as political fodder for liberals to point out conservative bigotry and conspiracy; and it only further alienates good, decent Muslims who don’t recognize this as an attack and a criticism of Islamic practitioners who they too differ with. It attacks the very faith they belief in, distorting its message as they believe it to be and practice it as such: one of love and peace.

But Spencerian imams know better about Islam than its own practitioners do; and what Islam and the Koran teaches and doesn’t teach, selectively citing from hadiths, irregardless of what branches of Islam actually reads from and listens to which hadiths.

Wordsmith, my post is perfectly explicit about WHO it is accusing of embracing an ideology of hatred and murder: ORTHODOX Muslims. Of course this is not ALL Muslims. You are exactly like Tom and Cary in declaring it hateful to document the hatefulness of orthodox Islam. Are you out of your freaking gourd?

50 years ago, orthodox Islam was in a state of remission. Given the high rates of illiteracy in the Islamic world few had much direct knowledge of what is in the Koran, and Islam was very much on the wane as a world power, causing Muslims everywhere to look outside of the Islamic world for direction. That changed in the 60’s when the Saudis started pouring ultimately well over a hundred billion dollars of oil money into spreading their ultra-orthodox Wahabbism across the globe. If you are not familiar, Osama bin Laden is a perfectly orthodox Wahabbist, and it was a bunch of Saudi Wahabbists who attacked us on 9/11.

Anyone who cares about the decent people in the Islamic world needs to understand that these people are being suppressed and dominated by the Saudi funded rise of the orthodox murder-cultists. When you guys refuse to witness the evil nature of the orthodoxy that is suppressing decent Muslims, when you speak out against exposure of that evil ideology, YOU ARE NOT HELPING THE DECENT MUSLIMS. You are abandoning them. You are giving cover to the Islamofascist thugs who are well on the way to enslaving the entire Muslim world. Sorry, but your ignorant pretense to some superior concern for decent Muslims is … well, I’ll forgo colorful language. Let’s just say that, at least in Wordsmith’s case, it is beneath him.

Okay, Cary seems well-meaning too, maybe even Tom. But really guys… it’s hateful to document the hatefulness of orthodox Islamic doctrine? Is this Daily Kos?

Been alcohol free for a stretch, during my active AA period there where several who asked me to assist their understanding of the 12-Steps Recovery Program. Some included cocaine users, consistently they were befuddled and even “clean” they ramped in a world of mental addiction befuddlement. They are like squirels collecting nuts around their favorite tree. The NA (I was not in that group) program tried to replace the cocaine tree with the NA Recovery Tree with rare success. The active cocaine user can appear to be very socially successful; albeit, many eventually crash and burn others continue using with no foreseeable signs of weakness which returns the case to befuddlement. Otherwise, strength to snort lines of USP grade coco-blow without needing a 28-day rehab is impressive especially when those white lines become a religion.

“Islam is a faith that brings comfort to people. It inspires them to lead lives based on honesty, and justice, and compassion”
George W. Bush

Blast
that is probably said to the AMERICANS MUSLIMS MODERATED, IN election mode.
bye
hope you feel better now
take care

@ Bees, if you google “George Bush comments on Islam” he made pages of them… all different times. I agree with Wordsmith’s rework of this post.

thanks for the well wish.

@ilovebeeswarzone: My best interpreter in Iraq was a lady born in Syria as a Christian. She lived in a Muslim country before meeting and marrying a Marine embassy guard. There were many times we would be greatly out numbered in meetings with leaders in towns and villages. Our discussions invariably got to the differences between Islam and Christianity.

Now, the golden Rule is “do unto others as you would have them do onto you”. This rule certainly doesn’t exist in Islam. It is acceptable to lie to and cheat non-Muslims. In Iraq, that was the US Army. I had a “farmer” come to the gate and request compensation because he stated that we had destroyed his farm. We cut down his fruit trees, killed his cotton plants and destroyed his tomato crop. His disdain for us was so much that he didn’t think we would check his farm for damage. By chance, his farm could be viewed from one of the guard towers on the East side of our base. I took him, his son, my interpreter and the JAG officer who authorized damage payments up into the tower.

I had him point out the boundaries of his farm. He arrogantly pointed out the expanse of the farm. I then pointed out his undamaged fruit trees, the still standing cotton plants and the tomatos in the field. I looked him in the eyes and I and called him a liar. (Not very politically correct!) I then asked him how he should be punished for lying to a high ranking US officer? I asked him what punishment Saddam do to a liar like him!

By then, we had returned to the ground where his sons was waiting. He started talking so fast that my interpreter could not translate. Both of them got into such a fast conversation that I just waited and maintained my stern face and posture. The man even struck his son! The crux of the conversation was he blamed his son for trying to defraud the US government and assured us he would be punished when he got home.

SO, was this man practicing the Golden Rule? You may think he would not practice it with Americans, but would with other Muslims. I asked about this man during the following weeks when I was visiting other villages. He was well known as a scammer. No one trusted him. Oh, by the way, this devote Muslim always carried his prayer beads in his hand during our conversations. Oh, yes. Our president lies to us again! He does find fertile ground based on some of the people who are posting here again. (Where did they come from? Were they hiding in the cracks of the floor?)

Randy
your word is more than gold here, because you where there, and in arms way on top of it,
you have seen it done, and we believe you and respect you as always.
YOU WHERE THE WARRIOR MARCHING WITH THE WARRIORS, YOU HAVE SEEN SOME DIED, SEEN SOME DISABLED FOR LIFE YOU HAVE WEPT, AND YOU HAVE COME BACK TO TELL THE TRUTH,
THANK YOU SR.
bye

@Cary: You said:

When they attribute those actions with broad brushstrokes, implicating the entire race of said people, yes. When the rhetoric is intended to incite hatred towards said group of people, yes.

It would seem that for a person to belong to the KKK, said person would have to be racist. Therefore, according to your logic I am painting the entire KKK with a broad brush and that makes me racist.

Fascinating.

If I say that all bank robbers are criminals, that makes me a criminal as well.

Look I am not going to say that all Islams are evil, nasty, murderous peoples. What I am saying is that the religion of Islam is not based upon the same values as Judeo-Christian faiths, which promote loving your fellow man, no matter their faith.

It is a fact that Islam teaches that all non-Islams are infidels and that all infidels should either be converted or killed. The Christian Bible might relate atrocities that occurred, but it does not tell Christians to kill all folks who aren’t Christian.

At least you took the time to defend your position.

Wordsmith and Blast think that Bush calling Islam a religion of peace is the same as Obama doing it, but the difference is obvious. Unlike Obama, Bush is ignorant of Islam, so he wasn’t lying. He couldn’t lie. He didn’t know the truth. Ah, but HOW did he come to be misled? By the lies of people like Obama who do know the truth, and cover it up.

The fact that Bush was misled by these liars shows how strategically effective the lies are. The president of the United States, the leader of the fight against “those who attacked us on 9/11” (the subject of our declaration of war immediately after 9/11), never identified the true attacker: orthodox Islam.

@Alec Rawls: I hear what you are saying, but really what did you expect our President to say right after those 9/11 attacks? I mean that is what a leader does, he tries to unify folks. This is why Obama is not, never has been, and never will be a leader.

ALEC RAWLS
yes that must be the explanation, I had it wrong and I really was not happy with my answer to BLAST,
it did not feel right, and I take it back, beside we need to know the timing of that answer from PRESIDENT BUSH, anyone know, if it was before or after the 9/11, or when in another time.
thank you, anticsrocks yes you have also another good explanation, he might have want to protect
the MUSLIMS IN AMERICA from the anger which was high among THE OTHER AMERICANS,
and yet there was MUSLIMS DANCING REJOICING FOR THE EVENT OF 9/11,
plus the last outrage of building that MOSQUE around the SITE, which is not forgotten and will never be.
BYE

@ilovebeeswarzone: President Bush called Islam a religion of peace in an effort to isolate radical Islam from everyone else. He expected that by separating them and treating them differently, all of Islam would not join the radicals. I expect he got this strategy from his advisors. This strategy was designed to fight only radicals instead of all Islam.

When Obama calls Islam a religion of peace, he uses his words to set up his foreign agenda some of which is to blame Israel for the middle east conflicts.

Randy
yes thank you of course, it make sense too,
bye

N
hi,
you had a wise comment there,and because I found it so well stated, It took a while until I look for an answer, if you don’t mind, even among the chimpanzees, you will find haters, it is
most often a male hoping to be the leader growing up to challenge the chief, now and then, until one day he win the leadership, kill the old male, mistreat the females and babies, until one day, the females get together and attack him and kill him.
they have never hurt anyone before, but they saw evil, they recognized evil,
so is the human able to do it not for the hate, but to eradicate the wrong and protecting the freedom and the peace of humanity, but there is many more haters among humans so that’s why war has begun in the most ancient times of humanity, and the multiplication of humans increase the haters which carry the genes of the ancient evil humans which had to be kill but the one who escape to hurt other until they died
having procreate human carrying their evil genes,
bye

OK, I kind of find this guy refreshingly honest.
He is Hazim Abu Ismail, a candidate for Egypt’s presidency with affiliations to both the Muslim Brotherhood and the Salafis.
Here is the translated transcript of his interview on an Egyptian TV show:

Host: You have already begun to try to impose a particular dress code for us.
Abu Ismail: I’ve begun to? It’s the Lord of the Worlds [Allah] who said so. I have nothing to do with it!
Host: Allah left it for me to decide as a personal freedom.
Abu Ismail: Who said that? Where’d you get that from? See, that’s the whole point: If you claim that Allah considers it your personal freedom, show me your reference? Nobody has ever said that—except for people have no understanding of Sharia.
Host: There is “no coercion in religion” [Koran 2:256].
Abu Ismail: This is concerning the creed, you don’t force someone to convert to Islam.
Host: So when Allah in the Koran mentions “religion,” it is synonymous with “creed”?
Abu Ismail: Exactly.
Host: So when He says “today I have perfected your religion for you” [Koran 5:3], He is only talking about the “creed.”
Abu Ismail: Yes; for example, when you say “no coercion to join the Military Academy,” it means that you are free to join or not—but if you do join, then you are obliged to wear their uniform, to attend their classes, to attend the training with them, and to obey their leader.
Host: There is a problem here—shall I say to the unveiled woman who wants to avoid hijab that she should change her creed?
Abu Ismail: Exactly, bravo. If she is a Muslim. You see, this is the difficulty; this is Islam. Does she want to be a Muslim and not obey Allah’s rules? Let them say so; that’s all I ask; let them be honorable and just speak up.

In Islam a female is a Muslim if one parent is a Muslim.
She has NO CHOICE.
If she lives in Egypt and this guy gets elected, she will be called an apostate from Islam IF she decided not to wear the veil.
Under Sharia, an apostate — anyone who leaves Islam for any reason — can be put to death if they refuse to repent.
Criticizing the prophet Mohammed, the Koran or Sharia law is also punishable by death.

@Cary: #50

Repeating the same things when clearly they make no impact to open or change minds, is not really an activity I find healthy for me….

You’re apply what is called the, “Wrestling with a pig in the mud” philosophy. Some people just like to wallow in the mud, and bring as many in with them as they can.

Sometimes, when I see the same two people commenting to each other several times, I don’t even read the email that is sent to me. Remember, the longer the pig can keep someone in the mud, and the more they get to jump in the mud, the more points they get (POINTS being an ego boost). Others can wrestle as much as they want, but I try not to get in the mud in the first place. It takes too long to clean up afterwards.

Smorgasbord
you get me interested, it sounds like a lot of fun too,
couldn’t resist this one
you know, it worth the clean up

@ilovebeeswarzone: #51
Part of living in a FREE society is allowing others to disagree with something we believe and to change any law if enough people vote for it. Imagine the soldiers coming home and hearing and seeing some of the things out there, and known that they fought for and some gave body parts for the right for those people to say and do them. I wonder if any of them ever care about the sacrifices that were made, from George Washington to today, for them to have the rights they do now to say whatever they want and not have their heads cut off.

Every time I hear the Nation Anthem sung a different way than the original, it bothers me, because when it is sung the original way, I usually picture the battle that was waged that brought that song about. The different versions only draw attention to the singer, not the battle the song was written about.

Smorgasbord
yes they must wonder if they arrived at the right place , so much changes, so many foreigners who dress different which make them think of being in the previous country they had as enemies, so many parks they loved to walk on before they left with their loved one
no wonder some have a question for the civilians; WHAT DID YOU DO WITH MY COUNTRY?
NO WONDER SOME HAVE A SHORT FUSE, I can understand it,

@Wordsmith: #52
NOT WEARING THE FLAG PIN
He quit wearing the pin (if he ever wore one) right after 9-11. He explained, “The truth is that right after 9/11 I had a pin. Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we’re talking about the Iraq War, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security. I decided I won’t wear that pin on my chest. Instead, I’m going to try to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testament to my patriotism.”

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8S2K3UO0

SAYING THE MUSLIM RELIGION TEACHES LOVE
What others say about it is separate from what I or someone else says. I don’t go by what others have said. Only what Obama has said. He grew up a Muslim and knows it teaches that, as a Muslim, you must convert or kill non-Muslims, and if you leave the religion, you will be killed.

I have not read the Koran, but I have read a lot of info from others who have. I want to buy one so I can compare. Is there any reference to loving anyone who is not a Muslim in the Koran?

REFUSING TO CALL THE FOR HOOD MASSACRE A TERRORIST ACT
This by itself is no proof of pro Muslim, but other similar acts by Muslim individuals or groups are hardly ever mentioned by the propaganda media or the Obama administration. What if it were a Christian person or group who killed a Muslim because they were Muslim?

HIM PRAYING FIVE TIMES A DAY
Mostly joking, but it would be interesting to see him at the times the Muslims are supposed to pray.

JUST PIECES OF A PUZZLE
All of the above are pieces of a puzzle. The more pieces that are found, the more it makes me wonder if he is a Muslim. I’m not 100% convinced he is, but if I had to guess, I would have to guess that he PROBABLY is. Lets invite him to a hog roast and see if he comes.

@Blast: #55
We have to keep in mind that Bush had a problem with the English language.

ALEC RAWLS
hi,
on your 61, I notice it and those lies are being repeated by those of them, ready to enter this AMERICA,
playing the poor helpless, being abused in his COUNTRY, THEY KNOW to play on the compassion of the free WORLD, who cannot say; SORRY PAL BUT MY PEOPLE IS HAVING A HARD TIME, SO, I must
take care of them because they are a priority in their AMERICA, WHICH I MADE AN OATH TO SERVE AND PROTECT.SO RETURN TO YOUR COUNTRY AND I will tell your leader to take care of you.

@Randy: #58
Here’s a salute to all the ones from George Washington until my birth, who made it possible for me to be born in a free country.

Thank you

Here’s one from me to the ones who are keeping up the payments on the freedoms your predecessors bought for us.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35983084@N07/6845637109/in/photostream

Smorgasbord
very good, you’re a real patriot, and an artist

this is unique,
bye

@Smorgasbord: You said:

I have not read the Koran, but I have read a lot of info from others who have. I want to buy one so I can compare.

Neither have I, but what is frustrating is that there is more than one version of the Koran.

Maybe these links will help.

THE DIFFERENT ARABIC VERSIONS OF THE QUR’AN

The 20 Versions of the Qur’an today. (7 are recorded in the Hadith.)

I once worked with a man who was from Iraq and had come to the USA to escape Saddam. He had worked for Shell Oil over there and that is how he was able to afford to move his family here. He had even become a US citizen. His name is Rzik and he was a really nice guy. Very talkative and quite intelligent.

I had occasion to ask him about living under Saddam and also about Islam. He said that Saddam was “even more evil than the television showed him to be.” When he said television, I took this to mean the media. He said that American television held back the real truth of Saddam. When I asked him what he meant, he said that I “should never have to see the things he had seen.” I could get no more out of him about this, but it was clear he did not want to revisit those memories.

On the question of Islam, he said that it was a matter of which Koran you read. He gave me a copy of the Koran, telling me that it was the “true word of Allah.” I did begin to read it, but unfortunately right about that time in my life, I moved to a new town and the Koran he gave me got lost in the move. Rzik said that his Koran did not teach the killing of infidels, but that there were those who believed in that. I wish I still had that book.

@ilovebeeswarzone: #69
Will you supply the hog? Do you even have them up there?

Smorgasbord
the hog? you mean the pig to play in the dirt?
it depend of what kind of dirt, there are many kinds and the pig is fussy
no foreign dirt, no dirty dirt, only local dirt
bye

@ilovebeeswarzone: #71
I have talked with men about the ones putting our country down, and they, very disgustingly, said they fought for them to say what they are saying.

@ilovebeeswarzone: #76
Thanks for the compliment, but it took me over 60 years to be a “real patriot,” and the artist is my Apple poster program that came with the computer. I can’t draw anything, and I ain’t kidding!

Smorgasbord
the one who have been brain wash by the propaganda, they have traded their AMERICA for a GLOBAL COUNTRY, WHERE ALL ARE BROTHERS AND SISTERS, THE NEW TREND, and they are dangerous,

@anticsrocks: You have made my purchase of the Koran much more difficult. I didn’t read the whole link. Do you know if a reference is given to the Koran, are all of the versions listed the same? If not, I’m going to have to spend a lot of money to get them all.

I could get no more out of him about this, but it was clear he did not want to revisit those memories.

I have learned that the soldiers coming home after wars who don’t want to talk about it are the ones who went through really rough stuff. My dad didn’t want to talk about him escorting the Merchant Marines to different parts of the world. I didn’t know he did this until about 20 years after he died, and it was from an uncle after Mom died.

@ilovebeeswarzone: #79
I thought you were referring to the last sentence in my #72 post.

Lets invite him to a hog roast and see if he comes.

In case you didn’t know it, down here a pig is a baby hog. I don’t know why hogs are called pigs. When a person has a pig roast, the PIG could weigh 200 pounds (90.7 Kilograms).

@ilovebeeswarzone: #82
You must be a night person like me. It is about my bed time.

The brainwashing starts with our public schools and the propaganda media. As I have mentioned different times, one easy way to tell if a news media is liberal is if they call the USA a democracy.

Here is the thing: Anyone who is capable of cutting off the head of another live human being is not a believer in The Golden Rule while shouting ‘god is great’.
This is the most heinous action of a non-believer in The Golden Rule, barberic, and beyond anything I find acceptable in any organized religion.
The God I place my faith and trust in does NOT ask me to commit such a atrocity!

@cali: So Cali, you do not believe that Islam is a Religion of Peace just because they cut off the head of an innocent person or maybe two or quite a few people? You likely will be selected for a term in a reeducation camp if Obama is elected for another 4 years! LOL

So if I am a practicing member of Islam, I can judge if my teen age daughter is embarassing me and my family and either kill her myself or have another member kill her? I am sure that would bring me closer to Allah.

@cali: #86
In the Old Testament there were several things that a person could be killed for. Some are: Being gay, a husband having sex with his wife’s mother, having sex with an animal (The animal should be killed too). The Jewish religion still lives by the Old Testament.

Leviticus 20: 13-16

I have a problem with ANY religion that used to teach to kill for reasons like these.

@Randy: #88
That stuff doesn’t happen. Show me ANY story in ANY of the propaganda media that tells of ANY incident like that happening. No fare using Fox News. That would be cheating.

@Alec Rawls:

Anyone who cares about the decent people in the Islamic world needs to understand that these people are being suppressed and dominated by the Saudi funded rise of the orthodox murder-cultists. When you guys refuse to witness the evil nature of the orthodoxy that is suppressing decent Muslims, when you speak out against exposure of that evil ideology, YOU ARE NOT HELPING THE DECENT MUSLIMS. You are abandoning them. You are giving cover to the Islamofascist thugs who are well on the way to enslaving the entire Muslim world.

I always have to laugh when people go the historical revision route in an online debate: “I didn’t say that! I said this!”, as if we can’t just scroll up and see what you originally wrote. So now Alec is a self-styled Islamic hero, whose sole motivation in composing this tract is to protect “decent Muslims” (don’t worry, he’ll tell you which ones are okay – HE KNOWS) from the Islamofascists, and their complicit allies. Geez, Alec, if I’d known that, I would have never criticized your original post. It’s just funny how none of this was actually in your original post. And the stuff that was in your original post, doesn’t correspond with any of this new information. And now that I think of it, you never adequately addressed any of the claims in your original post that were called into question. And when you do address them in passing, you rely as your only defense upon the sketchy claim that “Obama is a Muslim” as if it’s settled fact, a claim which is just not true. Nor can I shake the feeling that this conciliatory post is the typical scurry towards rationalism that the zealot extremist uses to appear sane when he’s backed into a corner of his own making.

I wonder how long before you swing back toward your default mode? Oh, post 61. Still making claims you can’t substantiate. The old Alec is back.

@Smorgasbord: Oh, so FOX news is biased? So what source would you like to believe? Would you believe a police officer from Dallas who has specific knowledge of the father who shot his two daughters in his cab and then has dissapeared? Made national news to include FOX. What would provide you proof that you can accept?

@Randy: @Randy: #92
I was jokingly saying that Fox News is the only network I know of that reports that kind of stuff. The propaganda media doesn’t. If a person listens to Fox News they will hear a lot of stuff that is negative about Obama. This is really surprising, since Rupert Murdock is known to be a liberal. I’m thankful that he likes making money more than spreading the liberal agenda. Fox News is the only news media Obama banned from Air Force One for a time and also told us not to listen to. Since he said that, it is almost the only news media I watch.

@Tom: I have many Muslim friends. All have attended western universities and do not take the Koran literally.

@Randy:

I have many Muslim friends. All have attended western universities and do not take the Koran literally.

Excellent point. More reason not buy Alec’s claim that “Hatred of the infidel” is an inevitable consequence of being Muslim.

I’m kind of a simpleton who has always subscribed to the simpleton philosophy that every individual deserves to be judged upon his own merits and flaws. A more sophisticated person, like Alec, would tell you that every individual should be placed into a category and judged by the category’s merits and flaws. If you need to know what those are, ask Alec.

@Smorgasbord: Please put a smiley face on those post when you are kidding. I take these issues very seriously and have been accused of being too serious quite frequently. LOL

@Tom: Good post Tom!

@Randy: #95
If you take the Bible LITERALLY, and look at something you are not supposed to, and your eye offends you, you are supposed to pluck your eye out. If your hand offends you, you are supposed to cut it off. I am guessing this means that an individual can’t stop from doing certain things. These are in the New Testament. I have a major problem with any teaching, religious or not, that gives strict instructions, but people say they are not supposed to be taken literally.

One preacher of a church I used to go to had a woman tell the congregation how she divorced her husband because he offended her. The preacher even pondered the idea, but never refuted it. It made me wonder if he was looking for an excuse to divorce his wife.

@Randy:
Randy, me, too.
But my friends really appreciate living in a country where they don’t have to pretend they do take their books (Koran Hadiths and Sira) literally.
In Islam there is a term for the kind of Muslims they were back when they lived under strict Sharia:
Munafiq….Hypocrite.
A munafiq is one who pretends to be a Muslim when he is not one anymore…..out of fear of the consequences of being found out not to really be a Muslim.
This is quite different from a murtad (apostate) who leaves Islam openly despite the consequences.
We saw a case of a murtad when that Afghani man openly converted to Christianity and was sentenced to death plus had mobs willing to murder him on the streets.
He was only able to live after being protected from the population then spirited out of his homeland.
Unfortunately, the European country where he went wants to deport him back to his death in Afghanistan.

Randy, ask your Muslim associates if they could live freely, (interpreting the Koran anyway they wish) like they do here, back home or would they (out of fear) have to spend their lives pretending to practice Islam as though the Koran were literal.