10 for 12 – How the GOP can win the Presidency and bring back liberty and prosperity [Reader Post]

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One of the challenges in politics is going from the general to the specific. Practically every American wants the things most politicians promise they’ll deliver: more jobs, economic growth, good schools, less poverty, freedom, a coherent foreign policy, etc.

The more opaque a politician gets the better voters seem to like it. The poster child for this was of course Barack Obama in 2008. What in the world does Hope and Change actually mean? Virtually every American hopes for the things listed above, but in terms of a plan for actually addressing any of them, what does Hope and Change really mean?

Maybe this is it. From the leadership of the “leaderless” Occupy Wall Street movement we get some clarity: Free college tuition; open borders; a trillion dollars each spent on infrastructure and environmental repair; higher taxes on the rich; guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment; immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all; universal healthcare; and of course, prosecution of the ubiquitous Wall Street criminals. That sounds about right.

Hope and Change, whether the opaque 2008 version or the more clearly defined version above will probably not work in 2012. Not only does President Obama have an actual record to run against, but more importantly, voters realize that 2012 may be the most important election of their lifetime. As a result they are actually paying attention to issues and are curious about exactly what policies a politician will implement when they take office.

As such, Newt Gingrich is trying to resurrect the success he had 17 years ago with his new 21st Century Contract with America. Good luck to him. Noticing that few of the other GOP candidates have been as straightforward, I would like to help out in case they still looking for the right set of ideas.

Here is a list of the ten specific things a candidate could promise he or she will do out of the gate that will result in the economy turning around and subsequently taking off like a rocket as it ushers in a dramatic increase in jobs, productivity and prosperity. I call them 10 for 12…

1. Sunset all Federal legislation on the books (along with any consequent regulations) in eight years unless specifically reauthorized by Congress. Require every reauthorized and new piece of legislation to cite where in the Constitution Congress is given the power to pass such a law. All new legislation will automatically sunset in ten years unless reauthorized by Congress. Set this in stone by Constitutional Amendment if necessary.

2. Build a wall from Brownsville, TX to San Diego, CA. It’s not a perfect solution, but it’s a lot easier to police than thousands of miles of open land. Reform the immigration system to favor those with the skills, education and resources to find gainful employment or start a business. Allow any student who graduates from an accredited college to remain in the United States indefinitely if they either start a business or find employment.

3. Repeal the 16th and 17th Amendments. Eliminate the IRS and implement the Fair Tax. Close the Departments of Energy and Education, the FCC, the NLRB, NEA, PBS, Amtrak and dramatically slash the budget and power of the EPA. Outsource the operations of the Post Office. Sell or shutter Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Sallie Mae and get the government out of the home and student lending business. Sell stakes in GM and any other private sector entities.

4. Repeal Obamacare. Encourage states to allow interstate competition for health insurance and to experiment with a variety of health delivery systems. Repeal any federal legislation that hinders such competition.

5. Begin the process of eliminating all welfare programs. Set a four year timetable after which the federal government will be out of the welfare business. Provide job training for long term welfare participants to prepare them to stand on their own feet. Create a plan to empower churches and other organizations to provide assistance to those in need.

6. Implement loser pays n the federal court system and encourage states to do the same.

7. Open all unused federal lands, other than those designated as National Parks, to bidding for the purposes of exploration for and extraction of natural resources, or for conservation or development. Allow winning bidders to execute the contracts they paid for.

8. Curtail all federal subsidies. Farming, corporate, etc.

9. Eliminate Social Security for persons under 50. Establish self directed funds for individuals equal to their accrued contributions to date into the program. Introduce market competition into Medicare by creating a system similar to the one available to federal employees.

10. Define specific objectives to evaluate the continued presence of American troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. Once defined, either provide the necessary resources to accomplish such objectives or curtail the effort. Such objectives should take into consideration not only conditions in Iraq and Afghanistan, but regional objectives and national defense needs.

The consequence of these policies would be to throw the federal government into something of a whirlwind. At a minimum it would result in a flurry of activity by bureaucrats seeking to justify their continued employment… which means they could not spend much time writing new regulations. More importantly, Congress and the President would by design be forced to enter into a discussion as to the correct role of government. No longer would their hands be tied by laws that could never pass today. No longer would agencies be allowed to metastasize into a cancer on the economic freedom of Americans. At some point equilibrium would set in which balanced government rule making with forced re-evaluation of existing legislation.

The most important outcome, however, would be that Americans would once again understand they are free to focus on the pursuit of happiness without the constant fear of an ever encroaching federal government strangling their liberty while they are on that quest.

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I like just about everything.
#2. You can’t build a contiguous fence from Brownsville to San Diego. A pretty good portion of the land along the borders belongs to Native American tribes, on both sides of the border.
#3. I don’t really have any love for the FCC, but someone has to be the final arbiter of frequency spectrums. The industry could form a spectrum managment board, but there would be serious infighting and claims of favoritism. There would have to be someone or some entity to go to for apppeals and complaints.

I also think there needs to be a constitutional amendment so congress is bound by the laws it passes.

There are lots more troops overseas, ?defending our interests?, who could be brought home immediately.
Can we get out of the world cop business?
While we are at it, get rid of ALL of the Agriculture Department price supports and crop licensing. Why should you be prohibited from growing peanuts? Let the farmers who plant the crops decide what to plant.
Radically restructure the ?Department of Justice? and return that bureau to the task of preserving and defending the Constitution. Justice does not need to be the senior partner in Committee to Re-Elect the Expert President (CREEP).
Mandating a maximum of 12 years in the Congress would not be a bad idea, either. No more lifetime appointments. Such luminaries as Waxman, Schumer, Mikulski, Durbin, McCain, and hundreds of others have passed their use-by date.
Lots more bureaus, agencies, and other government activities can safely be disposed of, having no warrant in the Constitution for their existence. And then we could afford our government again.
Get rid of the ridiculous method of establishing Congressional districts. We have too many gerrymandered districts, operating on the perverse notion that a Black has to be represented by a Black, an Hispanic by a Hispanic, and so on. How racist! Establish a perimeter to area ratio which cannot be exceeded under any circumstances.
Lots more ideas are out there. It just takes political courage to implement them.

@mathman:
Mathman, I especially appreciated this part of your comment:

Radically restructure the ?Department of Justice? and return that bureau to the task of preserving and defending the Constitution. Justice does not need to be the senior partner in Committee to Re-Elect the Expert President (CREEP).

DOJ has a case going to the Supreme Court that, if DOJ gets its way, means the federal government gets to tell religious institutions (churches, temples, mosques) who is a ”clergy, priest, reverand, imam, rabbi, etc., and who is not!
Seems above the DOJ’s pay grade to me.
The Wall Street Journal SHREDS the DOJ and Obama for their stand.
A large coalition of other churches and temples are adding amicus briefs (Friend to one side of the case) to the case on the side of the Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School.

Jews, atheists and Christians are lining up to become imams in all of the mosques in America IF the DOJ wins.
Heh.

The Tea Party, the the Republicans who control the House, blew it. They are now the defenders of the status quo and have lost the initiative to the liberals.

Way to blow it GOP!!!!

Here is a list of the ten specific things a candidate could promise he or she will do out of the gate that will result in the economy turning around and subsequently taking off like a rocket as it ushers in a dramatic increase in jobs, productivity and prosperity. I call them 10 for 12…

ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz….zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz….zzzzzzz

Hey I have an idea! Why not just STICK WITH YOUR 2010 CAMPAIGN PROMISES?????????????????

Sweet mother of God, the last thing we need are more false-hopes and busted promises.

The GOP blew it with their kiss of Obama/Pelosi’s azz 24/7.

I, like the rest of the grassroots, am sick of the bogus lies emanating from the liars in the GOP.

I see the stylus on the broken record is still stuck in the lock out groove….

@Ivanski: You said:

I, like the rest of the grassroots…

I was laughing so hard, I was nearly unable to type a response… Ivan do you REALLY think you are a member of the Tea Party Movement????

You more correctly qualify for membership in the Whiner Party, because that is about all you ever do.

Whine, whine, whine.

Vince, very well thought out. Especially the part about the 16th and 17th amendments. This country was as screwed up 100 years ago, similarly as it is, today. The Spanish-American war was this country’s first dabbling at the expensive proposition of being the global policeman. And, we have almost the same suspects (or descendants of the same) involved. (Outside of the Kenyan guy) Anyway, you cited what I consider to be the two most dangerous amendments to the constitution. These were instituted during the nation’s first flirt with socialism/communism during the ‘progressive’ era from the first “green” RINO, Teddy Roosevelt, through the commie Wilson administration: “Making the world safe for Democracy.” Recall that Teddy became popular 2-term president in 1901 when McKinley was assassinated by a freaking communist, of almost identical mindset to those now occupying Wall Street. After all, the XVI amendment is the 2nd plank in the 10 point communist manifesto. The XVII amendment was the most damaging to our republic. Yes, it was floated during the Taft Administration. But, the progressives must have been multiplying like rabbits to finally sweep in a bunch of progressive Democrats and Wilson. Routing section 3 of the original document. Moving the nation one step closer to the dangers of a plebiscite democracy. Purposefully done to dilute the power of the individual sovereign States, conferring that power to the federal government. Giving us the same problem that Rome had: When it’s republic degenerated into a democracy; Then Caesarian oligarchy Patricians in the Roman Senate; A “house of lords” that Franklin, Jefferson and Madison observed to the cause of the failure of the Roman republic. 13 States vs. 1 federal government worked well to restrain the federal power. Article 3 scaled very well to 48 states restraining an omnipotent federal government. Those wascally progressives used the excuse of incurred debt to slip in a couple of quick changes to the constitution: The progressives, or “Profest” Democrats,” have not deviated from their goals of “fundamentally transforming” our republican form government, since inception.

The GOP needs a reality check and it needs to get its act together.

The best way to ensure prosperity is to provide a business climate where risk-taking and employment increase, because that will produce revenue.

The last 6 years have been wasted on arguing over budget, spending and taxation issues.
What this collection of dopes need to tell the average voter is very simply:
1) I will issue two executive orders, the first of which will be to repeal “The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act” and…
2) Honor the existing energy exploration and harvesting permits already approved and issued IN ADDITION to opening up for bid the vast tracts of GOVERNMENT OWNED LAND which we know contain literally trillions of barrels of recoverable oil, trillions of cubic feet of natural gas and a real program to transform coal into synthetic diesel-home heating oil-jet fuel.

These two actions, by themselves will create totally new industries (including land reclamation) employing literally millions of workers, will strengthen our National Security, and provide less expensive energy which will reverse the flow of cash overseas, provide every American individual with more discretionary income to spend and entice manufacturing (which is energy dependent) to return to America.

I wrote a short paper on this some time ago. We’ve seen the result of inaction on this matter, and it’s not pretty. Remember what I said in the article:
“ENERGY IS WHAT KEEPS YOU FROM LIVING IN MUD HUTS, MAKING SHARP STICKS.”

How to Restore America to Greatness [Reader Post]

@anticsrocks:

You can’t refute what I say, so you attack me. Typical ad hominem attack by your inability to refute my argument.

What “argument”? Just the same “I hate everyone” BS on a different day…. been there, done that.

@MataHarley:

And when his weak tea arguments are dismantled at the joints, and their dry brittle bones stacked in the corner he runs away like a scared schoolgirl.

Comical.

@Aye:

what a joke.

@Ivan:

what a joke.

Yes. You certainly are.

@Ivan: What’s the matter, Ivan? Did I strike a nerve? LOL

Mata is correct, you don’t offer any arguments, just your insipid little hater-ade comments.
.
.

VINCE,
when you know what to do like this POST, mean that it should be distributed to each of the CANDIDATES as a reminder to stick to it, and tell it bravely to the NATION,
one line at the time to let the PEOPLE absorb it , and face the reality of how far down this ADMINISTRATION led AMERICA that in a such short time from 2008 to now, so THE PEOPLE can envisage the awful future
they are being led to if they keep ignoring the facts, and get off the WALLSTREET GROUND
and move to the WHITE HOUSE GROUNDS.

@Aye, while on the OT subject of those MIA Libyan MANPADS, the latest is that the terrorists are actively seeking those in possession of them.

O’butthead had 15 specialists on the hunt, and has now increased that staff to 50, and apportioned $30 mil US bucks for the costs. Why? NATO sez it ain’t part of their mandate, and that’s the job of the Libyans.

Wow.. that buck passing makes me breathe easier.

As to the discredited broken record to which you refer, this was also noted in the AP article:

He said vast majority of the missing missiles were Soviet-made SA-7 Strela (Arrow) with infrared homing.

The United States and other Western nations have been trying for decades to reduce the global stock of portable missiles, fearing they could fall into the hands of terrorists. The small, easily concealable SAM-7s are considered obsolete by modern military standards but could pose a threat to civilian airliners or helicopters.

Weighing just 31 pounds and only 4-feet long, the 1960s-era missile can reach an altitude of over 10,000 feet.

Thousands have been used in wars in the Middle East, Latin America, Central Asia and former Yugoslavia. Civilian aircraft as well as US and allied warplanes and helicopters have been damaged or downed by the missiles in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Libya was the largest non-producing nation hoarding these weapons. Of course, after the fall of Saddam, Gaddafi agreed to monitoring and checking the Libyan WMD programs. All of which disappeared when this CiC threw him to the anti-Christian and Jews wolves now in control of that country.

@MataHarley:

He said vast majority of the missing missiles were Soviet-made SA-7 Strela (Arrow) with infrared homing.

The United States and other Western nations have been trying for decades to reduce the global stock of portable missiles, fearing they could fall into the hands of terrorists. The small, easily concealable SAM-7s are considered obsolete by modern military standards but could pose a threat to civilian airliners or helicopters.

Weighing just 31 pounds and only 4-feet long, the 1960s-era missile can reach an altitude of over 10,000 feet.

Thousands have been used in wars in the Middle East, Latin America, Central Asia and former Yugoslavia. Civilian aircraft as well as US and allied warplanes and helicopters have been damaged or downed by the missiles in Afghanistan and Iraq.

The SA-7 is the **LEAST** effective of all modern-day production MANPADS.

***LEAST***.

Not only a stylus, stuck in the lock out groove on a broken record, also stuck on stupid….

@MataHarley:

Not only a stylus, stuck in the lock out groove on a broken record, also stuck on stupid….

Can’t refute what I say, again, and as always.

Have a good weekend, Mata.

I repeat, Ivan. You bring neither arguments to refute, nor solutions to the table. Hence why you are a broken record. As far as the SA-7s, Aye handily took you out (INRE your insistence no civilian airlines had been a target) back on the old threads with his shoulder-fired library of data… and you’ve been on the run ever since. Lots of people have been injured or died via that “least effective” MANPAD. Sounds pretty darned effective to me. Especially with ease and size. I suggest that the families of the SEALs** recently killed by an SA-7 would especially disagree with your distasteful observation about their effectiveness.

** correction, they went down via another “least effective” type of weaponry, the RPGs. It was the families of the Fallujah soldiers who would be disagreeing.

@Ivan:

Between 2001 and 2011 only 30 Israeli’s* were killed after over 5,000 Kassam rockets were fired into their land from mostly Gaza.
Kassam rockets are UNguided rockets.
Generally, they might be considered as the least effective of all rockets sent from Gaza into Israel.
BUT Terror is not about killing everybody.
Terror is about killing enough people to TERRORIZE everybody who is left!

Unguided or poorly guided rocket launcher systems are just as terrifying IF you are likely to be in the line of fire.

*Several of those Israelis killed in these attacks were Arab Israelis of the Muslim religion.
Hamas created a specific nickname for such deaths: Inadvertent Martyrs.

@Nostradamus:

Rick Perry Unveils Energy Plan to Get Government Out of the Way and Get America Working Again

The Texas governor is out of the gate with the first part of his economic plan, concerning energy:

Though our president has labeled Americans as soft, I believe our people have toughed it out the best they can. But they are looking for leadership and optimism, which are all too rare in Washington today.

What I am proposing today is the first part of an economic growth package that will rebuild the engine of American prosperity.

The plan I present this morning, Energizing American Jobs and Security, will kick-start economic growth and create 1.2 million jobs.

It can be implemented quicker and free of Washington gridlock because it doesn’t require congressional action. Through a series of executive orders, and other executive actions, we will begin the process of creating jobs soon after the inauguration of a new president.

There is, of course, an important role for Congress to play. And in a matter of days I will offer to the American people a broader package of economic reforms that I will take to Congress when I am elected President. My complete economic growth package will tackle tax reform, entitlement reform and real spending reductions in order to address our growing debt crisis.

But today I offer a plan that will create more than a million good, American jobs across every sector of the economy and enhance our national security, and the best news is it can be set in motion in my first 100 days.

My plan is based on this simple premise: Make what Americans buy, buy what Americans make, and sell it to the world.

We are standing atop the next American economic boom…energy.

The quickest way to give our economy a shot in the arm is to deploy American ingenuity to tap American energy. But we can only do that if environmental bureaucrats are told to stand down.

My plan will break the grip of dependence we have today on foreign oil from hostile nations like Venezuela and unstable nations in the Middle East to grow jobs and our economy at home.

America has proven but untapped supplies of natural gas, oil and coal. America is the Saudi Arabia of coal with 25 percent of the world’s supply. Our country contains up to 134 billion barrels of oil and nearly 1.2 quadrillion cubic feet of natural gas.

We have the resources we need to fuel our cars, our homes and our power plants. They can be found in Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Ohio, Texas, Oklahoma, North Dakota, New Mexico, Alabama, Kentucky throughout the American West and, of course, Alaska.

But President Obama and his over-reaching Environmental Protection Agency won’t allow American businesses and American labor to draw on even a fraction of this domestic energy from reserves on government-owned lands.

Perry’s plan calls for using the power of the executive to rein in the EPA, while also opening up more land to energy exploration and use. This plan is smart, hitting our economic problems from more than one angle at once, and in a way that can be implemented quickly. The Achilles heel of the Cain 9-9-9 plan is that it requires Congress to approve it. No matter how good that plan is, Congress will monkey with it. Congress will mutilate it. 9-9-9 will soon become 10-10-10, or 15-12-18 or worse. Or, after Congress messes with it, it will end up getting vetoed. The chances of such a plan surviving contact with Congress intact are remote.

Perry’s energy plan doesn’t depend on Congress. It depends on having a president with the vision to take ahold of the bureaucracy that the voters have entrusted to him, and turn it away from the Obama job-killing agenda it has been working under. As governor, Perry has been taking that particular fight directly to Obama for more than two years now.

With a series of executive orders and other executive actions, I will authorize the following:

I will work to open up Alaska’s abundant resources to oil and gas exploration, including the ANWR Coastal Plain and the National Petroleum Reserve of Alaska. In this one instance, we will need congressional authorization. But it is worth it when you consider we will create 120,000 jobs.

We will initiate off-shore exploration in the Beaufort and Chukchi seas off the northern and western coasts of Alaska. This will create 55,000 jobs.

We will resume pre-Obama levels of exploration in the Gulf of Mexico and create another 230,000 jobs.

I will support the construction of the Keystone XL pipeline to take Canadian Crude to coastal refineries, which would create 20,000 direct jobs for American workers.

We will begin tapping the energy potential of the American West, opening up federal and private lands for exploration in states like Wyoming, Montana, New Mexico, North Dakota, Colorado and Utah. Collectively, our western states have the potential to produce 1.3 million barrels of oil per day by 2020 and contain 87 trillion cubic feet of natural gas.

They can produce more energy than what we import from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait, Venezuela and Russia combined!

Perry’s energy plan would also reduce power prices across the board, while putting Americans back to work in the energy sector. Lower fuel prices will curb the inflation that has been sneaking up on America’s family budgets. With more Americans working and with fuel prices getting back under control, the economy will be on a sounder footing to get moving again. And with greater energy independence, America is more secure.

Perry then turns to the EPA and the damage it is doing to the US economy and our position in the world:

While President Obama has been very public about his newest jobs proposal, behind the scenes the permanent bureaucracy is working to grind the economy to a halt in pursuit of activist regulations. A raft of new rules and foot-dragging by the EPA and Interior Department are killing job creation.

Examples include the Utility Maximum Available Control Technology rule, the Boiler MACT rule, the Cross State Air Pollution Rule, the proposed Coal Combustion Residuals regulation and Section 316 (b) of the Clean Water Act.

These new rules alone could destroy up to 2.4 million American jobs by 2020 and add $127 billion in costs to electric providers and consumers. Under my plan, each of these rules would be subject to an immediate review with a cost-benefit analysis to determine the impact on American employers and the environment.

If we face the facts, we know that none of these rules were needed to reduce emissions of the six principal pollutants by 50 percent since 1980. And they are not needed now, especially as our economy hangs in a fragile balance between recovery and recession.

I will take another step important to economic growth: I will stop the EPA’s draconian measures related to the regulation of greenhouse gases.

When you consider that any carbon reduction will be offset by the increase of carbon emissions by developing nations like China and India, the EPA would tie our economy in knots and advantage our global competitors while realizing no global environmental benefits in the process.

Download the Perry plan at the link above. I think it’s a serious plan that will help our ailing economy enormously.

While laying out his own plan, Perry is also taking a jab at Mitt Romney’s economic record as governor of Massachusetts. In a press release that i*****ting inboxes this afternoon, Perry describes Romney’s jobs record as “anemic”:

AUSTIN – Despite his private sector experience, Gov. Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts ranked a low 47th in job creation during his term.

While Mitt Romney was governor, Massachusetts’ population declined by 3,000 people, with only 45,800 jobs added during Romney’s four years in office – an anemic 1.4 percent job growth rate. At the same time, the U.S. as a whole experienced 5.3 percent job growth rate.

While Mitt Romney was governor, Massachusetts’ rate of job growth underperformed the nation’s rate of job growth by 3.9 percent.

Since Rick Perry has been governor, Texas, by comparison, has added 4.29 million people and 1.077 million jobs, an 11.3 percent job growth rate. During Perry’s tenure, state job growth flourished despite two national recessions. At the same time, the U.S. as a whole experienced 1.1 percent job loss.

Since Rick Perry has been governor, Texas’ rate of job growth outperformed the nation’s rate of job growth by 12.4 percent.

“Gov. Romney was one of the worst job-creating governors in America and has no standing to attack Texas’ best-in-the-nation jobs record,” said Perry spokesman Ray Sullivan. “Mr. Romney may have succeeded in taking over companies, dismantling jobs and profiting from corporate takeovers, but his gubernatorial record is marred by population loss and near-record low job growth.”

Okay, Mata, name me a MANPAD in production or which is currently deployed which is less effective than the 40 year-old SA-7.

I’m all ears on this one.

Nostradamus,
hi,
I was away for a month, and I came back wondering how come RICK PERRY was not on the top rank, as when I left him last month,
now I know, that is , HE was working on this fabulous instant recovery for AMERICA,
under his PRESIDENCY in 2012,
and I find his work possible in this NATION OF CREATIVE MINDS LOCKED IN THIS PRESENT
REGULATION’S PARALYZESS,
THIS creativity is just waiting to explode into lots of open busynesses to support RICK PERRY’S PLAN IN THE FIRST 100 DAYS, and we know of the other smll busyness which will provide jobs all along the steps of the ladder from to step to the bottom first that all needed to feed the top to downward
last important as well step.
that is a good logical expose, that is good work for AMERICA to pay a special attention to.

Okay, Mata, name me a MANPAD in production or which is currently deployed which is less effective than the 40 year-old SA-7.

I’m all ears on this one.

Come on, Mata. Prove me wrong or apologize. Don’t be like Aye and run away with your tail between your legs.

@Ivan: Okay, Mata, name me a MANPAD in production or which is currently deployed which is less effective than the 40 year-old SA-7.

I’m all ears on this one.

@Ivan: Okay, Mata, name me a MANPAD in production or which is currently deployed which is less effective than the 40 year-old SA-7.

I’m all ears on this one.

Come on, Mata. Prove me wrong or apologize. Don’t be like Aye and run away with your tail between your legs.

Heavens, Ivan. Is there no end to your willingness to embarrass yourself here? I really hate to break it to you, but some of us have a life making a living in the O’butthead economy. However I do have to have to crack a huge smile at your apparent smugness.. and obvious impatience… thinking you just laid the golden egg of infallible counterpoints.

Quite laughable, and I know we all appreciate humor these days. I’m just so sorry you constantly make yourself the butt of all jokes.

Your entire argument is based on the premise that because the SA-7 is a “40 year old” weapon, it’s the “least effective”.

Well, Ivan.. what is effective save something that achieves desired end results? Using your logic, a black power rifle is “least effective” in today’s standards, yet remains a lethal weapon when utilized under the right situations, and the powder isn’t wet. Something that, gun control types whine about even in recent times.

An old, undetected harbor mine from WWII that isn’t disabled can still destroy a vessel.

Lee Harvey Oswald used an inferior and unreliable “least effective” short Carcano rifle to kill JFK, when the M1 Garands were far more “effective”. So how did “least effective” figure into that moment?

As a matter of fact, I can attack you with another type of “least effective” weapon, such as a sling shot, and you still may end up dead when properly utilized.

So what is is you think you are arguing? That because it’s an old weapon,still equipped with heat seeking capabilities, that it’s no longer lethal or worthy of concern that it lands in the wrong hands? Or that because it doesn’t go up to 35,000 feet, we should heave a sigh of relief that it – instead of something else – has landed in the hands of terrorists? Do you think they are as dumb as you about weaponry, and they’ll aim at a civilian or military aircraft out of it’s range?

I do believe that both Aye and I have already shot down your embarrassing argument in the old thread. But yet, stuck on stupid you remain as you persist in a dependence on word parsing, or a comparison of new to old weaponry… dissing the old as unimportant because it is “least” effective.

If it is “effective” in it’s end desired result, does that matter to you, Ivan? If it’s an old weapon that kills, as opposed to a new weapon that kills, does that matter to you, Ivan?

As we’ve (Aye and myself) both pointed out with specific incidents on the old thread, these “least effective weapons” have been extremely and successfully utilized in both killing and wounding military and civilian aircraft decades well after their “effectiveness”… in your not so humble opinion.

And your attempt to redeem yourself so long after originally being proven the broken record still remains pathetically self-centered and highly offensive.. but highly amusing. Save, perhaps, to those families mourning those who have been wounded or died at the “effectiveness” of these old, but still highly advanced, weaponry. To them, you own an apology.

I think the least effective weapon is Ivan.