Intelligence And Mis-Information as told by J. V. Hoffman

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Wounded Aboard The USS Liberty After Being Attacked By Israel

It is painful to say, but so many of us don't understand the difference between 'Intelligence' and 'Mis-Information'. This article will illustrate several factors that escape our consciousness of thought; unfortunately, most of us are victims of mis-information. I served in counterterrorism and counterintelligence for 27 years. Most people think because they have served in the military or in the government they actually have a true grasp of what is actually happening; nothing could be further from the truth!

Sadly, most of us will go to the grave, without ever really knowing the truth. Every government of the world is involved in intelligence and mis-information. Here is a simplified version of who is responsible for what:

Intelligence

1. Private Contractors
2. Intelligence agencies
3. Military personnel
4. Private Individuals

Mis-Information

1. Mis-Informed Politicians
2. News Media
3. Military Personnel
4. Foreign Governments and Diplomats
5. General Public
6. Religious Institutions
7. Terrorist Groups
8. Law Enforcement Agencies
9. Government Agencies
10. International Agencies (United Nations, etc.)

Within the United States Government, the majority of people who actually have a grasp of what and why things are actually happening are appointed, contracted, and are government employees. Elected officials are often the least informed. If a Senator or a Commanding Officer makes a statement concerning official policy, the reality is they often don't have a clue.

Presently, because of our president's favoritism toward the Palestinians at the expense of Israeli security, the Israeli/Palestinian conflict has been positioned in the forefront. I worked in intelligence and counterintelligence for both countries, with apologies to no one, but if you will analyze these next few paragraphs, you may begin to question what you think you know and get a glimpse of what really happened or is happening. You need an open mind and the ability to admit misconceptions.

We shall start at the beginning of Israel, 1947-48. I will provide background and commentary on the key players of that era: you will be free to draw your own conclusions after reading the article.

Britain and the United States needed a base of operations for naval, air, and ground forces in the Middle East for strategic and economic reasons. The United States State Department was instrumental in proposing and lobbying for the proposed Jewish State of Israel before the newly formed United Nations.

The United States and Great Britain were supplying armaments and supplies to the Arab states: while Britain tried to prevent the importation of armaments to Israel.

Britain and the United States wrote an agreement to help the new born Jewish State become established and another agreement that would divide it after failing to defend itself against numerically superior Arab militias. The United States would take the Northern area and Britain would have the Southern section. Thus the U.S. and Britain were not overly concerned with defensible borders or a large land mass for Israel, the area was sufficient for their strategic and economic plans; they didn't expect Israel to last over a couple of weeks.

The Arab nations also felt Israel would fall within a week or less. The Arab leaders felt they would be able to tap into the economies for vast sums of money from the U.S. and G.B..

To some of you, this may be upsetting; since, you were probably taught differently, but I will point out some verifying factors.

The Georgetown University Center for studies of peace in the Middle East…..Who paid for it?

Who heads the educational system for all of our State department officials?

With every group that is sponsored by our government on studies of the Middle East who teaches and heads up those divisions?

How many translators does the United States military have enlisted who were trained to speak Arabic?

And why are we depending on Iraqis to serve as translators in Iraq?

Does our Military undergo any type of training as to the customs and mentality of the Arabic speaking people? Very little to none! I could write a book in explanation of why all of this is the way it is; however, this is not my objective.

The USS Liberty incident.

The public information available and the naiveté of the amateur historian is laughable and the willingness of the public to believe what they read or have been told defies logic.

Following the USS Liberty incident, Israeli intelligence asked the United States if they wanted the pilot radio logs and the intercepted radio transmissions that were intercepted and recorded to be made public to help clarify the issue.

The reaction by the U.S. was to sweep everything under the carpet.

It is reasonable to ask why.

Perhaps, there was intelligence being transmitted to the Egyptians. Israel was indeed in a desperate struggle for survival and had no alternative but to stop the source of that intelligence to the Egyptians.

Now, we must ask, when in the history of the U.S. was an attack on an American Military vessel swept under the rug?

Why would the U.S. government take such an action?

When in the history of the United States did diplomatic relations become stronger after an attack on a military vessel?

We have only two allies who have paid back their debts to the U.S., Israel and Taiwan; yet, they have been repeatedly stabbed in the back through the diplomatic process by Liberal administrations.

Israel, has two great enemies, the Zionist and the Liberal; they have been Israel's greatest enemies from the beginning.

To survive this system of Intelligence and Mis-Intelligence, it is imperative to start over with new people who have vision and objectives. It is written ” the people who have no vision will perish!”

Shimon Perez and Obama are from the same philosophical family; they see history as an empty slate to be manipulated for political advantage. They want to remain in power, even if it tears the very core of their countries apart and destroys the foundations of those countries.

Our politicians have no vision and we will perish as a nation if we cannot produce a complete change of government and establish a government that serves the people and not a political agenda: ” the people that have no vision will perish”.

The history of the race, and each individual's experience, are thick with evidence that a truth is not hard to kill and that a lie told well is immortal.

Mark Twain

Never try to estimate the heat in a raging fire until you have actually been caught in one and never under estimate the ability of you enemy as long as he is still alive!

Captain John W. Wells USN

Liberals and Communists can only be trusted when they have no office and even then, from no less than 3 feet away!

J.V. Hoffman

Epilogue: The attack on the USS Liberty has been obfuscated by our government, that is obvious. If some of you are dissatisfied with the facts in this post, feel free to dispute them with more precise facts, but as Chill has cautioned us, don't rely on emotion, that is a fool's technique. Verify your facts and present them in an organized and precise debate. I am merely the messenger, who can present this episode with fewer errors; other than that, this tragedy has bothered me for a long time and I just want the truth. Right now, this is the most plausible scenario I have heard, but I am open to reason and logic. Emotional attacks, heavy breathing, drooling, and name calling; the methods we see on Liberal blogs is demeaning and wont be tolerated.

Ready on the right, ready on the left, commence firing!

Some Of The Damage Sustained By The USS Liberty

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Then there was the matter of that missing yellowcake.

@John Cooper: Dear Mr. J Cooper, I would that many of the people that were involved in the matter you ask were still alive or at least in position to speak! This however is not the nature of our world or the governments in it. The Mossad is a shadow compared to what it was at one time. The people who comprised the Israeli Secret Service in the time of the incidents as you are speaking were a special breed of men and women. Many of them were “holocaust survivors”, and what they were put through empowered them with an ambition that most us us can never acquire. One of my directors in a former occupation of mine once said “scholastic ability is great, however remember your life may very well depend on your ability to innovate and adapt with what ever confronts you!” There is so much we will never be able to verify and only suppose. Intelligence is much like the space program, Could we build an Apollo spacecraft today? The answer is NO! However it existed and the world witnessed it, but the generation that had the ability to apply that knowledge is gone! We may never know what really happen with the missing “Yellow Cake”

The murky past is murky for a good reason: those persons who did not think through their decisions before making them do not want to be remembered in history. The sycophants wishing to defend the memories of those who messed up so thoroughly work tirelessly to re-write history. Consider the oceans of ink spent defending Alger Hiss and the Rosenbergs. Even after the Venona records were unsealed there is a cottage industry in denial.
Hatred of the Jews has a long and distinguished history. The desire to kill all the Jews goes back 1900 years or more; it is part of the writings of Martin Luther, among others.
The arguments in Britain about Palestine were ferocious and the animosity was real.
It seems that the inability to handle facts runs very deep in the human psyche!
On the one hand, Democratic politicians, needing money for their election campaigns, did not want to offend potential Jewish voters. On the other hand, Democratic politicians, in their quest for realpolitik, wanted to appease the various Turkish and Arabic and Egyptian power bases. Thus support for Israel remained dubious at best.
Support for “Palestine Liberation” has become the latest noble liberal cause. Once the re-united United States abolished slavery, the quest was on for a new holy cause. Prohibition was one such holy cause. Then came Women’s Liberation (the right to vote). The newest holy causes are gay marriage and Palestine.
Folk always try to find something “bigger than themselves” as a holy cause. Look to Britain for the most astonishing causes: anti-nuclear, flat earth, and so on.
The historical fact of the Palestine as described by Mark Twain in A Tramp Abroad is too much for the emotion-driven liberal to handle. So a story is invented about a prosperous nation, living independently, deposed without warning from their ancestral homes. In fact the only improvements in Palestine had been made by immigrant Jews from Europe in the 20s and 30s (I met a descendant of one such). AND, persons living in the Mandate area were offered citizenship in the new state. It was their choice; they were not exiled at gunpoint (another fact which the liberal cannot handle). As Netenyahu points out, the Arabs in the Middle East with political freedom consist of those who reside in Israel!
The amount of intelligence on display in our Political Class and our Media Class is not discernible. In fact, most of the clowns are clueless.
The damage inflicted on the USS Liberty is just one instance of the desire to conceal, hide, cover up, and obfuscate. Just think of that ship full of Jewish refugees turned away by President Roosevelt!
Moral: DO NOT TRUST EVERYTHING YOU READ!
As for intelligence: every item of information which is discovered MUST be evaluated. Raw data is not intelligence; the failure of the US to train linguists able not only to speak a language but also to comprehend the culture from which the language comes is basic to understanding our involvement in Korea, Vietnam, Kosovo, Iraq, Somalia, … ( I could list many of the World’s areas here).

@J V Hoffman:

There are some items which need to be addressed in some of your questions or comments. Having spent over 22 years in the military intel career field, I can best answer one of your questions and its subsequent false answer with a war story.

In 1971, I was selected out of Air Force Basic Training to attend the Mandarin Air Force Aural Comprehension Course (MAFAC) at the Presidio of Monterrey. After nearly two years of training I was assigned to a site in Taiwan. I was dedicated, excited and worked extremely hard to be the best that I could. I was very good as attested to by my colleagues and superiors alike. After only a year on the job, I was at the peak of performance and I knew it.

During my time at the assignment, we would often get fellow airmen visitors from the airborne unit not too far away someplace in Japan. These guys would walk into the ops room with their flight suits on and I believe they actually had trouble getting their heads through the doors. They thought themselves to be the best of the best. ( I found out after I retired that less than 1% of the AF enlisted personnel become linguists). These airborne types figured they were the top dogs of this 1%. They walked six inches above the ground, so they thought. I hated them as did my colleagues and we would make jokes and call them zippers because of all the zippers on their flight suit. Never would I want to be such a jerk.

Then, as fate would have it, I was selected to become one of those zippers after Special Arabic language training. My first airborne flight as a rookie is one I will never forget. Airborne! All the equipment and the first thing I noticed was that every one of these guys actually did walk six inches above the ground. No only linguists like me but Arab and Russian linguist as well. One does not become an airborne linguist and remain such unless one is very good. To say that these guys do not understand the culture along with the language pretty well indicates an ignorance of the career field. I am speaking about Air Force and no other service but I had navy and SF students in my Special Arabic class.

All the instructors we had were Israeli, Sabra(I believe that is how one spells a natural born citizen of Israel). We were totally immersed in the language and the culture. Chinese the same way. Total immersion in the language and the culture. Thai the same way. It is very difficult to learn a language like we had to learn without fully understanding the culture. The language management at NSA knows that better than anyone in America. Ours is the most stressful job in the military often times working under pressure that only an airborne linguist would understand. Been there done that way too often and I considered myself only an average linguist compared to the rest of these airborne folks.

You asked about why US forces did not have translators in Iraq and elsewhere? The answer is very logical. The resources just are not there. It takes a full year of training to learn Arabic well enough to be field ready. Arabic is not an easy language nor is Hebrew. In that year of training, a large portion of the students don’t cut it and are washed out. A translator would go to the school in the Southwest US to learn his trade and that is only a basic course and cannot possibly prepare a person for the rigors of translation. One must learn on the job.

In the college I taught, the English translation major was a four year degree and even then the process only produced a stark beginner. It is much more efficient to hire a local who knows the language and the customs. Cheaper than sending troops through the rigors of Monterrey and translations school and then hope the guy or gal does not flunk out.

The point is this, the military language training (at least for the time period I am familiar with) produced the finest linguist in the United States. They are the military’s best and smartest and some of the best people I have ever had the pleasure of working with and around. Walking six inches above the ground is no easy feat.

The USS Liberty

Many books have been written about it. Much misinformation with very little intelligence. For example, several authors state there were no Special Hebrew linguists onboard and thus Israel was never a target.. Not true. When confronted with the fact that CT Baker was a qualified Special Hebe as well as Spanish linguist, these people will then say – oh, he had not been one in ten years. He was assigned to the USS Liberty because he was qualified and not as a mistake as these authors would have us believe. The USS Liberty was top of the line and mistakes in assignments, especially with a valuable resource like a CT, are just not made.

The Israelis and their sycophants claim it was an accident. Is this misinformation? The whole thing reeks of rotten cabbage thrown out in the noon day sun.

If one must trust, one should trust but verify and never rely on emotions to come to a conclusion. The government is made up of humans and humans can be corrupted by many, many things. Trust but verify.

Why did Israel deliberately attack a ship that was unarmed and in international waters. Many theories out there but one can throw away any essay or book that claims the Israelis made a horrible mistake. The attack was deliberate and for a reason. Remember this was the six day war and the Israeli military did everything perfectly correct throughout the confrontation. They had already destroyed the Egyptian Air Force the day before and were well on their way to total victory. The only thing that would stop them would have been the international community.

A moment of silence for the 34 victims on the USS Liberty.

Your post touches on many an important point, but serves more to obscure facts than to clarify events. You ask a number of questions then skip the answers, jump from one topic to another, and fail to offer support for your contentions. The issue strikes me as worthy of a better, more comprehensive effort. I’ll look forward to one.

(added) Recent comments 3 & 4 add a bit more information, however, I’m still looking for a clear and direct explanation of why the Liberty was attacked. Yes, the Israelis did it, yes it happened during the 6-Day War, and yes, the US response or lack thereof is apparently inexplicable.

Obviously, we’re dealing with a first order cover-up by both governments. I don’t buy the ‘it was a mistake’ story, not for a second. The Israelis are sufficiently competent to know exactly what they were doing, and furthermore their decision makers at the highest levels had to be convinced the attack was not only necessary to their survival, but that it was also defensible from their perspective.

The lack of a US response would seem to indicate they were able to make that case. Which in no way justifies the death of our sailors. Someone or some agency is responsible for the deaths and for the cover-up. It’s well past time to expose the bastards, and to demand a detailed pubic accounting.

I was merely pointing out what may have been some false assumptions about military language training in Hoffman’s comments. I pretty much agreed with what he wrote just wanted to relay what my experience had been concerning the language problems in the military. It is not easy to train people in languages to do the kind of jobs needed for the military. This is not the local, How are you, I am fine thank you, stuff that most people who study language learn. The individual language managers (for lack of a better title) must weigh the needs with the resources and then figure the attrition rate and then hope for the best.

To even be considered for language training, a recruit must score very high on the military qualification exams or battery (is that what it is called today) and then take a language aptitude test. Resources are limited and these resources are not guaranteed to be successful once they reach the classroom. Americans are not noted for their abilities in language learning.

The USS Liberty is obscured, not by me, but by over 44 years of silence on the part of the US Government and the lies that have been spread by the Israelis at the time. I do not know the reason but, like most of us who have direct and indirect connections to the event, we have our strong feelings as to why it happened. Feelings and opinions are not facts but I hope the very concept of the USS Liberty will help open the eyes of some of my fellow conservatives here to the real world. Things really are not black and white, especially in international relations.

I believe I jumped from the question of the language problem directly to the USS Liberty event. At least that is the topics I wanted to address in this quick turn around. The connection between the two was the fact that their was a Hebe linguist aboard and, in fact, the ship requested language resources (dictionaries and mil term lists) for the Hebe linguist be sent quickly. Hope that was a good connection.

@mathman: Very well said! Semper Fi !

@Chill: Chill no offense but you are talking about the years that (1971) are so very different than today in the military. No Stress cards then my friend, no yellow ones either! I know all to well the things you are addressing, however this is a different military today, and even so it is not enough for just a few to be in tune with what the hell is going on, I would hope we would have learned that lesson in Vietnam. But sad to say they did not!

Also for your information I personally know two of the pilots and many others involved that day, and they broadcasted in perfect English, in fact most Israelis speak some English, probably about 15% or better speak good English, it could have been less then in percentage but the warnings to stop the transfer of military intell was broadcasted in English many times before action was taken. The pain and sorrow to have to fire on the Liberty can not be expressed enough by those men either, it was a must situation!!!

@ropelight: my dear friend I could write a book on these matters… like I commented… But as we say in Hebrew “The best way to help someone is to put the tools in his hand and not bread, to open the door for him, but let him walk in!” If you are interested in current events much worse than the ones you are contemplating here go to Curt’s Post Concerning it is okay to kill Israeli children! I have posted many things there that will also illuminate to you that we are being presented a lie on many fronts and not for a few days!

@Chill: Chill just to share something with you. I was an officer appointed to communicate with the Patriot missile batteries in Israel. Many times I was afforded conversations in depth with them. I was very forceful in expressing to the higher command structure there that they were not done with the job! This was in 1990-1991 today we are 2o years after the fact and they still are not prepared! The problem is not with the Military who if they had the resources they would train people to speak and to understand the culture and customs. The problem is the political figures and the how they use our ignorance to propel their political agenda. However maybe the US Navy Seals should be balancing the budget…they got the job done even after having suffered a 5 Billion Dollar budget cut from Obamination.

SO, correct me if my understanding is wrong, THE LIBERTY WHERE FOLLOWING ORDERS FROM THE USA
INTELLS COMMAND,
TO NAVIGATE TO EGYPT, WHILE ISRAEL WHERE DEFENDING THEMSELF FROM EGYPT’S ATTACKS,
OR JUST AFTER THAT 6 DAYS WAR, AND ISRAEL NOTIFIED THE USA COMMAND OF IT BEFORE

We know that governments make mistakes and cover them up. Few of the cover-ups were as thorough as the The Sinking of the HMT Rohna in 1943. Over 1,000 American sailors perished in the Mediterranean after the Rohna was destroyed by a new kind of German radio-controlled glide bomb. It was the largest loss of American lives at sea ever, yet the sinking was never admitted or acknowledged by any government for over fifty years. The few survivors were ordered not to speak of it, for fear that the world would learn about this new German technology.

Certainly a fascinating add for Memorial Day honors, JV. Just wondering about your original post’s comment that it was “swept under the rug”.

I’m not sure what is the definition of “sweeping” here is, but on June 10th, 1967, Admiral John S. McCain Jr – then Naval Commander in Chief for the European Naval forces, ordered a Court of Inquirytwo days after the event. The 728 page findings were, of course, classified. The stamp in the margins says:

Downgrading at 12 year intervals. Not automatically declassified. DOD Dir. 5200.10

I’m not of the mind that such events are a “need to know” basis for the public. I certainly didn’t get thru all the 728 pages, which gives a blow by blow description of the events as well as a transcription of the examinations and cross examinations. But one of the more notable items in the findings is that several communications that gave the Liberty orders to stay further away from both Israel and Egyptian coasts were not received until post the attack. And that seemed to be a problem of communications misrouting thru the Phillipines, and others not being sent on promptly.

Since the US was officially neutral, not responding to Israeli communications and unaware of official communications advising them to maintain a much wider berth than originally ordered, it seems the whole thing was a tragedy in the making.

Although I don’t consider a Court of Inquiries “sweeping an event under the rug”, I can also see the military not necessarily broadcasting what may have included some errors on our part that contributed to the deaths and events. It’s not the first time there has been a breakdown in command, communications or an error in judgment by military. Nor will it be the last.

@MataHarley: I am very well aware of the inquiry and the documentation you are referring to. However I could point out to you so many other investigations and inquiries that have been done over the years, and everything that was said or recorded was dictated to be done that way. I myself, many times had to sit up most of the night an to memorize material for an hearing or Security Conference to debrief and brief politicians and military leaders alike as to what was the progress, and what were the results of our operations. Sad to say most of the time our reports and the material we were told to represent were very seldom reflective of the reality of the situation.
I wish life’s experiences would allow me to enchanter the luxury to look at the reports through rose colored glass but it just doesn’t do it.
When you have sit on the line and remaining with only less than 20 rounds in your weapon and several hours to daylight because some politician decide to do such, or hunt down and shoot terrorist only to find that they have ammo with the same lot manufacturing number as what you are carrying it kind of shakes your confidence in reports! Especially when they try to tell you the best way to know the numbers and strength of the terrorist is to supply them! Well my friend then the paperwork just don’t mean the same to you. All I can say is it seems so strange that the biggest military actions as well as military failures seem to always take place during the liberals time in office, and yet it is not their fault! Had the operation to kill Osama bin laden taken place during the time of Bush the news media and liberals would have viewed everything very differently. And incidents like the Managua and Grenada will always find criticism in the eyes of liberals and the news media. In fact Mano Blanco was always a model of the best way to deal with terrorist until the Iran-Contra affair came to light then everything said and written about it was changed, then they were even called death squads. Please don’t take offense it is just hard to change what you have seen with your own eyes!

MATA that is another piece you found of the puzle, and it has a lot of sense if we keep focussing of then not today like J V HOFFMAN mentionned before, we know there certainly was pause between info sent and received,
to compare to today’s exelaration of communication, and those pauses where definitly not helping in a situation where there is a boat moving toward an ennemie still in warzone of ISRAEL submarines MOVING ALSO searching for expected confrontation between them ARABS involved in, as the ISRAELIS HAD TO BE FIRST TO DEFEND
THEIR STILL VULNERABLE COUNTRY, IN THE MIDDLE OF AN OCEAN OF HATERS’S COUNTRYS,
AND YES TODAY’S TIME THIS WOULD NOT HAPPEN

Skooum, You ask when has an attack on an American warship been swept under the rug? The USS Cole for sure. I bring the Cole up for two reasons, I am connected to it of course and have spent a ton of money, and time on getting to bottom of that attack. Impossible to say the least. But over the years I now have more people who were there after the attack, from America, Yemen and from other countries that have validated that the Cole was swept under the carpet. I have had government people tell me in their office that it will be years, long after the two presidents involved in the attack/investigation are long gone, tell me what I new already, “the truth will emerge then, not before.”
I will not bore you with all the rest of what it has taken me years to learn, and what is common public knowledge now. But years ago some individuals contacted me about the Liberty attack. I had heard of the attack when in Washington because it was used as an example to me on how the government will go to any lengths to protect itself, and especillay two presidents reputations. You can imagine how difficult it was and is when you don’t have a “side” in DC to help you. The people that were the most helpful were like myself when I helped someone with an extremely sticky problem. I told them the truth behind closed doors, but denied it in the open if they screamed where they got the info. I felt bad for the people from the liberty attack, but I was/am up to my neck in my own ship attack. I read the other post and remarks on this site. I have begun researching the liberty in my spare time. I am ignorant as of now. I was told in the summer of 2001 that the Cole investigation had gone dead. It was restarted the day after 9/11 with much vigor and interest as you can guess. I tell you this because I do have an emotional part in the Cole, and to some extent the Liberty for any injustice that may have been done to the deceased sailors. One more attack that was interesting to me was the ship that was sunk by a japanese sub at the end of the war. The crew were left for the sharks, and of course the government blamed the Captian. he later killed himself. Just like our government. But years later he would be re-enstated, and forgiven by President Clinton! How ironic. A 40 year wrong set right by Clinton, and then he turns right around makes a new wrong with the Cole attack. Our government tried to blame the Cole Captain! I screamed bloody hell to our government. I hope you don’t think that I was trying to go off your topic of the Liberty, she, and her crew have their own story. But for myself they are all connected in the sense of how quick and how far our government will go to sink their own sailors and officers to escape any negative consequences. If only they could be honest, and admit their mistakes. And also if you disagree, and respond back with different opinion don’t worry that I will be offended. I liked how you laid out your rules. If only our politician would follow such simple and respectful rules when in office. Oh Wait! I am back on earth! Thats only on Zortar where we take our retreats.

remember the USS Cole….

I think we can say that It was not the fault of either sides but the fault of the poor communication
which was far less effective because the knowledge was not there as today is,
so it take out any blame on each side, although the tragic loss of lives remained still in the mind of those close to them, who had reason to look for an obvious blame where loss of lives during a war is likely to happen in one instance or another. those who died are part of this yesterday MEMORIAL,THEY ARE PART OF THE HEROS SENT TO WARZONE, in my view and many who think as it

@mos 8541: Thank-You!

@Gary G. Swenchonis: Dear Sir, I can identify with all that you have written! I just want to say one thing, even though Memorial Day is for the honoring of those who have fallen in the name of the preservation of our country and those who have served as well. However all of us who have actually lost others in warfare and operations, especially those of us who have held our buddies in their last breath…every morning and every night and every day is a memorial day!

there should be more protection given to sailors in those ships sent at foreign seas to reconnaisance of event that is to protect AMERICA ahead of event,
look at the JAPAN DISASTER SENDING THOSE RADIOACTIVES CLOUDS WHILE ONE OF OUR SHIP HAD TO CROSS THAT NOCIVE CLOWD OF RADIATON,all the time the ship was under it,
that is a major danger for that ship, was the danger swept under, it did not appear to raise any concerned,
but I’m sure those SAILORS and their family are still concerned.

Skooum, I made a mistake. You made not be aware of why the “Cole investigation” was dropped, and or minimized. In short it’s believed that a deal was made that Saleh of Yemen would not spill the beans that his family/regime was aware of the pending attack and their subsequent successful interference with the investigation after the attack. And now that Saleh will be dethroned in the near future their are “rumours” that he will start screaming about the deal he made with two administrations if his regimes does in fact collapse. Kinda like the Libya scene all over. Everyone has know that gadffai was responsible for the american victims, but it was not until the day after OBi denounced him that “proof had surfaced” that did indeed show Gadaffi was responsible for those attacks. We have already had two ex-members of Saleh regime tell us that he knew about the Cole, and did in fact protect the bombers. Are they being truthful? That will be for the Congressional hearing, if they will ever approve one that is. That deal was made after 9/11 so as to have the Yemen as an ally in the war on terror. And when Saleh finally let the FBI question al-quso in person.

@J V Hoffman: Thank-you Sir! I agree with you as well. And am sorry for any loss of buddies that you may have had. I would like to add something. I am not saying that you implied this either.
We only want justice for our son, and his mates. No more lies. We have had so many now from three different administrations. We are proud that our son served, and was going to be a lifer. But we are not proud of leaders who made mistakes and will not admit it. Especially when those mistakes were compounded which may have led to the loss of more innocent lives. Our family has had a long history of all its males serving their country. Many in different wars, and a few were killed. But the Cole attack was a different attack, the sailors were doing their duty to the country, and their leaders. But their leaders failed them, and the nation in our opinion. And from what I have read about the Liberty, and the Indie in WWII those sailors were abandoned as well. Thanks again for your service for our nation, and for our family.

@J V Hoffman, I don’t want you to misunderstand me. I was only commenting that you suggested it was “swept under the rug”. Perhaps, as far as disclosure to the public of more specifics and our military misjudgment, it was. But it was not swept under any rug with the Court of Inquiry findings. Our military errors there were disclosed… perhaps not as fully as you’d like, but certainly touched upon as not being blameless. As I said, it seemed to be a tragedy in the making and I’d like to think our commanders learn from errors…. especially at the high price of the lives lost.

There were many battles of WWII that resulted in high US casualties and likely as a result of poor planning. Savo Island.. one of the worst defeats is the US naval surface war history is one, and the fall of of the Phillipines in late 1941 is another. There wasn’t much for the Canadiens to crow about in Dieppe either. My father and I used to speak of of that war before his death last November, and in some ways, our learning curve as a military superpower in those days. But other specifics aren’t crossing my mind at the moment.

I think my point is that military strategists aren’t perfect, and subject to human error. Most unfortunately, the reality is that those that pay for those errors are, as you point out, the ones in the trenches.

The Cole has it’s own errors, as Gary points out. As is usual with wars, intelligence, counterintelligence, it’s fraught with politics and other ugly necessities to prosecute a continuing war. I will always ponder the wisdom of the choice to refuel in port when they could have done so in international waters, plus the embarrassing inaction post the attack. I am not, as you were, in the position to lay undue criticism as to the overall wisdom.

Even tho it’s not the higher ups in the command chain that pay the price for errors in judgment, I will also add that there is little price they could agree to pay that redeems the prices of the lives lost, as I’m sure Gary will attest.

I do agree with both you and Gary in that the government does go to great extent not to broadcast what is bound to be errors in judgment and strategic operations that cost American blood. Then again, I’m not sure what the value there is for our nation, or our military, in holding the inevitable errors high. This is, to me, somewhat like judging all military personnel by what those at Abu Ghraib wrought. This is certainly not the standard of our usual military operations, at least while under our command and not NATO’s.

While I would like to believe that those who lead in prosecuting wars are infallible, I suspect I shall die with that same wish. Ultimately, the fate of the soldiers who offer up their lives lie in in the hands of the commanders and strategists. Since they are human, I don’t ever foresee a time when any one will get it perfect, and all lives lost to error or “friendly fire” become particularly heartbreaking.

On the other hand, I can’t see the value in chastising those who make those errors before the world stage, shattering confidence in the military by the soldiers. I will say that I would rest content that those who commit those errors do not remain in power to allow another service personnel to lose their lives due to habitual incompetence.

I don’t know that’s been achieved. Unfortunately, our Pentagon personnel tend to hangover from admin to admin, despite the abbreviation of R or D behind the name of the CiC. And while the buck may stop with the political party of the CiC, all of them are only as good as those that advise them. And sometimes that’s a holdover from another POTUS appointee.

@MataHarley: We are good! Got you, Appreciate it as well! I just wish I knew a way to awaken this younger generation to understand the threat imposed by the liberals and to answer the call of destiny for good as many of us did to the best of our abilities! Semper Fi !

@J V Hoffman:

Now that you brought it up, I knew that Israeli AF coms of the day were in English because the majority of the pilots were dual citizen Americans or trained in America.

As to the language training, I tried to put my experience in perspective stating it was dated and Air Force related. I retired in 1994 and with the exception of the last two years was involved in the same career field since 1971. My knowledge thus is coming up on 20 years old and admittedly is dated. Language resources are limited among the general population of America and the men and women who decide to join the military cuts those resources down even further. Big bucks are spent on the extensive background checks and the training and it takes a long, long time to get through the pipeline. I doubt if that has changed.

Think about it in terms of managing business resources. As a manager, your job is to prioritize your valuable resources and put them where they are needed. Likewise language resources. One does not have the option of stockpiling this resource. One day a crises comes up and you have to move resources. But that crises needs Serbo Croation resources and you have only three available. How long will the crises last? Is it viable to fill up the pipeline with resources that one may not need in two years. The same with all these events.

The 1979 hostage situation in Iran is a good example. There were only a few trained Farsi linguists available and not nearly enough. Is it worth filling the pipeline with linguists that in two years won’t be needed. The vast majority of language specialist during my time in the field were Russian linguist, followed by Chinese and then until 1974, Vietnamese. When I came through we were told that there were something like 140 slots for Russian, 45 slots for Chinese and 24 slots for Vietnamese. All my eventual linguist colleagues wanted Russian and hated the thought of having to go to Vietnam as a Vietnamese linguist. I doubt if the situation in the language management business has not changed much due to time.

I would not be too quick to withhold stress cards from airborne linguists as they are only one deep each and do not have the luxury of assistance from the plethora of help one finds elsewhere. That was the big difference I saw in my career.

Skooum! You have no need for an apology! Thanks for your kind words as always. And I want to say thank your family and your son for his soon to be service to all of us. And that your son will be in our prayers that you will see him come home in his uniform, with a big smile on his face. As we always were to see our boy come home and hear his tales. Our son was right in one major way, “Dad! Mom! Yall worry more than I do!.” I said the same thing to my mom. But when your young death is aways something that happens to the next guy. But I guess that is what is nice about being young! I just took it that it was your experience! But regardless, I was not trying to find fault. I had already been reading about the Indie and how the skipper had been treated, and like I said I had heard about the Liberty, but had no idea the amount of theories, and conspiracies that surrounded the ill-fated ship, and her crew. Thanks for responding Skookum.

@JV Hoffman, as a Navy wife and mother of a Great Lakes Naval Station brat waaaaay back when, I’d like to say I have a return verbal “salute” similiar to semper fi for spouses. Actually, I laughed when I remembered that most who liked to claim Marines are “part of the Navy” were met with Marines who say “yeah… like we use ’em for cab drivers!” LOL

But I’m glad you know where I’m coming from. I guess, even from the old military family days, I tend to feel that “family” battles are just fine, but offering the “family” (aka the military and it’s flaws) up to outside criticism isn’t okay.

As for awakening the younger generation? It sure won’t be done via critizing the military and any perceived cover ups. This is a generation of “me me me” and “don’t forget my gameboy!” Unfortunately, the closest most get to that discipline is via a joystick these days. A far cry from the real thing.

I think, in the long run, the only way the youth of this nation will be awakened is via the economy. It won’t be via a war they believe in. It will be disenchantment with all the progressive “love the one you’re with, and give ’em your shirt as well” policies. Until they recognized responsibility of self, they will never recognize, or appreciate, responsibility to country and principles.

why would a COMMANDER SEND A SHIP SUCH AS THE LIBERTY NOT ARMED
THROUGH AN OCEAN ROAD WHERE 2 COUNTRY ARE IN A WAR WHERE THE DEFENDER IS SURROUNDED BY ENNEMIES, IF THAT SHIP IS HEADING TO THE MOST FAVORED OPPONANT TO WIN OVER A SMALL NATION AND ALSO HELP BY SURROUNDE NATIONS OF ISLAM WHO ARE IN AGREEMENT TO ELIMINATE THE VULNERABLE JEWISH NATION. UNLESS THEY ARE SURE THAT EGYPT WILL WIN.

@J V Hoffman and G. Swenchonis:

Wonderfully written with lots of stuff to give thought to this week. Your point, Mr. Hoffman, concerning the liberals and the art of war management/crises management is the key point for me along with the knowledge that the US government has a lot of UNtrustworthy individuals. I told all my student in China that it is a traditional part of American culture to distrust their government. Keeps the government honest (not sure if that still holds true today).

Hamas is a terrorist organization and just within the last two days stated their objective was to destroy Israel and get rid of all the Jews on Islam lands. Stated this in public and in print they did in direct opposition to what Obama seemed to say. Yet, we see a growing group of liberals aong with the idiots in the UN who want to force a Palestinian terrorist state onto Israel. They are blind to the intentions of Hamas and blind to the intentions of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and elsewhere. I fear that another war is moving closer as each passing day of the current liberal administration in Washington.

@Chill: I fear that another war is moving closer as each passing day of the current liberal administration in Washington.

I couldn’t agree with you more, and I suspect BeBe has the same gut instinct. I’ve been meaning to do a complete post on this, but am sidetracked with the daily nuances of survival. However you may find this Human Events article/report… printed right about the same time as Obama’s Middle East fantasy speech… and written by Chuck Devore, extremely interesting. He predicts “Arab Spring” moves right to the summer war of 2011 against Israel. Key to the timeline are the alliances developing between the likely Egyptian powers and others, in conjunction with the unholy alliance between Fatah and Hamas in declaring their unilateral statehood to the UN this fall.. and coincidently before the Egyptian fall elections. I’ve downloaded the free PDF, and archived to my desktop for constant reference.

If his crystal ball is right, look for these events such as a Hamas/Hezbollah blockade on Israel ports… especially now that Egypt has lifted the Gaza blockade and ships will be rolling thru without Egyptian/Mubarak restraint. They would impose this blockade to try and force Israeli lifting of the Gaza blockade. The success of such a lifting is not their real goal.

Once Israel starts targeting these ships that are headed to Gaza – with minimal requirements now, thanks to Egypt – retaliation rockets will fly into Israeli cities. Israel will respond, and will win the battle, but lose the diplomatic battle… just what Hamas/Hezbollah need for int’l support for statehood. Iran, who is also now sailing thru unimpeded since Murbaraks fall… with the aid of a US POTUS… will also happily join the fray.

Ultimately, it’s a grand scam to not only unite quasi-allies in the mideast, now that most US allies have been booted out by this idiot CiC, but to isolate Israel. An ally that this POTUS as all but agreed to also abandon by the “US position” that they start their negotiations at 1967 borders. sigh… what an idiot

It’s one heck of an interesting read… this 2011 possible war of summer. Reading thru it, I can’t see much that is flawed in the possibilities. Devore starts his timeline for the summer/fall war in mid August. It almost seems as if it’s moving quicker.

And this admin? Clueless… not only to the foreseeable events, but as to who’s side they will take. “Neutral” is not an option here. But will a proverbial fence-straddling POTUS see that?

MATA, THAT WOULD BE DANGEROUS TO SPREAD THE MILITARY INTO MANY FRONTS,
and that is probably their strategy, to get them disperse.in a few weak defence fronts where other would come to multiply the fronts if they fall for it, because as they win more nations they will think they are strong enough to lure the USA IN
bye

@MataHarley:

Thanks for the article. Such a war could be avoided if the POTUS would stand with Israel and say simply, an attack on Israel will bring US forces to bear on the attackers and the money flow will cease to all who support the attackers. Israel is in its dangerous position IMHO because of the lack of support shown by POTUS. What will he do if Israel is attacked? Will he sit on the fence and for how long? What kind of assistance can Israel expect, if any? These questions (now being asked by all) have emboldened the terrorist to act. When does summer officially start?

@Chill, Chill… which is one of the reasons I was so furious at Obama for his ill-thought out speech on ME peace talk. They never had a chance at success. But he telegraphed to Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, MB and the rest who are the not-so-moderates intent at seizing power in the vacuum, that the US has no stomach for backing allies….

… as if they didn’t already know that by his alienation of leaders in Yemen, Egypt, Syria and invading Pakistan without their tacit approval.

When it comes to Obama, with friends like him, who needs enemies?

Added: “summer”, according to Devore, officially starts on his timeline Aug 19th.

Mata, I don’t mean to sound as if I speak out of turn. But brought up some very interesting points. I had to wrestle with some of the topics you hit on in your reply to JVhiffman. I want to be as brief as possible without being redundant. After the attack we started getting conflicting information from the government. Some of that was understandable. But what they did not realize was that I was extremely familar with Bin Laden, and Al-Qaeda in the sense I had taken to researching him and his not so merry psychos aboput a year before the Cole. They took it for granted that we were like most Americans who did not keep up with AQ, or where not even aware of the lunatic at that time. Even though he had some attacks already under his robe to his discredit. After I had sent envelopes packed to bursting with information we had gotten from the web,(checked/rechecked) to every senator, and congressman with statements froma few military and senators that AQ needed to be removed before they became a major threat to the mainland, and that the Cole attack was a probe from AQ, we had some guests from the government. These guests to our surprise and extreme dismay wanted(demanded?) to know where we had gotten this info. Please remember that the net was still in its infancy at that time. Even my own governing state agency did not have computers, or net access to all staff. I took them into my office and showed them our top secret decoding/spy machine. Our WEB TV!! They were stunned! And I was sickened as the realization hit me that they had not been monitoring the WEB! Two agents took it all in good stride, the others angry.
Many congresspeople agreed with me that AQ needed to stopped before they killed thousands of Americans. But only one person could take that step. The president of America. We were promised after the attack that those in our government would be held accountable for igorning the looming threat. But as we know they never were.
I was raised that I claim responsibility for the good and the bad choices that I make. Our children were raised the same way. That excuses for anything are unacceptable. I think that is what is part of the problem with our nation now. That our leaders can do and say as they please and nothing ever comes of it, even if it means innocent people are killed because they knew but chose not to act for political reasons. There is no other worse excuse in my book. The person in question is putting their career first, and the American people second. Even as I write this we have political leaders who will send us over the edge economically. Who knows how bad all of us will suffer if they do not find the courage within themselves to stand up and do the right thing right now.
Do I want Clinton and Bush to satnd trial? No. It would be pointless, and in this political enviornment only cause more problems. But I would I like a government that would come together and do some serious self searching after the major mistakes of 10/12, and 9/11. Yes. I would. And then admit those mistakes. And learn from those admitted mistakes. That was how my grandfather and the oldtimers taught me. We treid to pass those same values on to our children. I would like to share a story with you one day about how our son had to make such a tough decision based on those values. I know as a 17 year old kid I was faced with owning up to a bad decision, I scared to death. But I when I went before the judge I told him I was wrong, and no excuse. My sentence was 3 to 5 years in prison or volunteer for Vietnam. Serve 3 years with no trouble and recieve a pardon. I chose the latter of the two. And the governmment lived up to their word. Our son had to make a similar choice. But one with even more unforseen outcomes than my was at the time. So yes, I do hold the politicians feet to the fire. Its as if they think that we are just the little people with no fears, hopes, and dreams because we do not aspire to political office, and the ego that goes with it.
And I do agree with you on how a CiC is only as good as his advisors in many instances. That people do make innocent mistakes. I don’t hold the itell agencies responsible for that reason. They work with what they have been given by their boss. But I think in the end bad decisions like the letting the Cole investigation go cold, and not pressing Saleh for political reasons will always come back to bite our leaders on the butt. Just like what is happening in Saleh in Yemen right now. That as a soldier it always disgusted me to see an officer get away with a crime, or something wrong. That morale always suffered with the troops.
Your post was so full of good points that I can’t address them all. But suffice to say your right on target. But under what circumstances do we hold our leaders responsible. Is that answer in the eye of the beholder? I had to look long and hard at those and more questions before I embarked on this fruitless quest. It ment I would have to turn on my own conservatives leaders. That some of them had crossed the line in the sand. Some families have chsen to only blame Bush, some Clinton, and some just want to forget it all and never talk politics. Just like some of the 9/11 families I know. But one thing many of them do think is that they and their loved ones, and other Americans were betrayed by one of two presidents. I am an equal doubter of both. But do I hate Bush. No. I admire his perservance in sticking to his course once he had set sail, damning all the torpedoes. Even when he refused to meet with the Cole families, it did not bother me. He knew what the outcome of that meeting would have been like. It was a forgone conclusion, and he wanted to put the Cole to rest. And focus on the future. That meeting would have been a boon for the liberal media. But I do disagree with many of the chocies he made in dealing with the scumbag Saleh of Yemen. I got way to winded. I did enjoy your reply though. I hope that you don’t take anything I say as an attack on you, and or your beliefs. I always enjoy a good debate. I also know that your more than able and ready to satnd up for yourself! Take care

MATA ,can you check if august 19 is the crescent moon, it just cross my mind,

Don’t know about the crescent moon phase, Ms. Bees. Per Devore, the timeline and start of the events cannot be so soon as to allow Israel to counter early and minimize the political impact. And the events are strictly for political impact for Palestine statehood.

Good heavens, Gary… if anyone has a right to vent your varied, and probably somewhat personally conflicting, emotions, it’s you. No offense taken, and I’m glad you didn’t take any at mine as delivered. That was never my intent.

I think we should hold all of our elected officials… most especially our CiC’s… feet to the fire. Not a bit of disagreement. And yes, they should be very aware of mistakes to take special care they are not repeated as the price is unbearable when they do.

I guess what we may hold somewhat different is what constitutes “feet to the fire”. Do I need the US military being chastised for mistakes on the world stage? Nope. And in fact, I think that is counterproductive to our success, ultimately prosecuting those who oppose what we value for ourselves and others around the world.

I don’t think in political parties when I Monday morning quarterback our intel and military failings. I think there is ample room for blame, and most especially with elected political powers who value their job security over all else. There are heads that should roll, and not always those in the elected positions. They are, after all, mostly geeks and doofus types who merely listen (some times…), and then race to the nearest camera for political hay.

I guess those I really want to see removed from positions of power are those who are consistent in inept performance. And I suspect the Pentagon is full of them…. appointees and the forgotten underlings where finger pointing doesn’t reach. I’m not sure of the answer, but I am somewhat relieved that Court of Inquiries are indeed done so that mistakes are not repeated, and we can pinpoint our failings. And while I may have my qualms about giving a pass to the Cole in order to ply Yemen into being another quasi ally, I also think that, in the larger view, most soldiers would agree that winning the war is strategically more important than winning, or avenging, a lost battle.

That logic does not make it more palatable when the loss is so personal and close to your heart. For that, I am so very sorry.

Personally, I’d like to win them all. I just think that with humans at the helm, it ain’t possible.

And you have to know that my heart lies with you and other families of the Cole. I share your frustration, if not your personal loss.

And I also agree that the Libery was a completely different incident than the Cole. The response to both cannot be construed as similar in any respect… even if both could be considered lacking in what we find personal gratification.

@MataHarley: Please understand a couple of matters here, I served the United States in in seven different countries and travelled all over the for Israel, even Russia were I become friends with Putin. I am proud to be a Marine and an OCS candidate who was even assigned to the 1st Marine recon. I was working as a man at the age of 12 and the devil himself could not stop me. I am painful at heart to see that there are not many children who are like this today! I survived being a POW, and was a very good interrogation agent as well. I am sorry to say I just don’t see the fortitude in young men today to get the job done. I know who the enemy is and I am worried as to the ability of our young people to deal with such animals.

@Gary G. Swenchonis: My friend you have reached many conclusions that other people never arrive at with no small price! May God bless you greatly, in you realizations you are no less than many of the fathers of our nation. I wish there was some way for us to arrive at what is really true and right at a much lesser price! May we obtain the wisdom to not repeat the actions of fool hearted liberals as so many have done. But to face life with honesty and integrity and having to offer no apology to no man! May the God of Israel bless you and keep you always! My heart go out to those like yourself who have provided this unworthy administration with another son of freedom!

MATA thank you, the crescent moon has a significance for the MUSLIMS so that is why I thought they would choose a date of that moon, like they choose name for the MOSQUE
bye

Don’t believe that entire middle east movement, as a whole, is that organized for symbolism, Ms. Bees. But it would ironic indeed were they to find success in Sept 2011, of the beginning the decline of Israel.

Personally, my money’s on Israel…. And I’m quite sorry to say that money is not on our current POTUS to respond appropriately.

@J V Hoffman:

The God of Israel is also the God of Christians. HE and only HE is the true hope of the world.

@J V Hoffman: I am sorry to say I just don’t see the fortitude in young men today to get the job done. I know who the enemy is and I am worried as to the ability of our young people to deal with such animals.

I half agree, JV. Well, let me qualify that. I think our young military members do have the fortitude. Yes, there are some there that took the job for employment stability. But there are many more who took the job for patriotism in the wake of 911. I have no doubts they would rise to any challenge, as they already have and have generations before them.

It isn’t their job to know “fortitude”, no more than it was the job of those in prior wars to know. What they did know was passion for a cause, for country, for principle. They are the blank canvas on which a masterpiece is to be painted.

For all we can say about this self-entitlement, video game addicted youth today, those that represent the best of the best are in our volunteer military branches. What they need is adept and inspirational leadership thru new guerrilla wars that aren’t conducted on the seas or in fields, but in urban neighborhoods and 3rd world countries around the world… and with all kinds of nanny int’l rules and judgment.

So it’s not their job to “deal with the animals”… it’s the job of their commanders to plot the successful strategy.

I think where I differ from you is I have great faith in the grunt, and considerably less in the implementation ability (if not the intent) of the current military commanders. Or perhaps we actually do agree in that, on a second thought…. LOL

For the rest of the nation’s youth? The best of the best serve so the lesser of the best can be left to other devices… whether it be video gaming and being useless and demanding, or attending college to become contributors in other avenues of advancement. Even our greatest generation, and Vietnam, had our human siphons.

One of my favorite guys, Col. David “the Hack” Hackworth, always used to use the phrase “free a soldier to fight” when talking about women serving in the trenches. I take that same thought a bit more broadly. When we have our military performing in these trenches, they free other young minds to accomplish technological advances in medicine, sciences, inventions, etc. Not everyone is cut out to be a soldier in mentality, physique or discipline. But that’s always been the beauty of humanity in free nations. It’s a blend of all of our collective advances and talents, with opportunity, that gives us an advantage.

You don’t need to inspire an entire generation, JV. You only need to inspire the right portion of a generation to accomplish what you wish. THe rest we need only attempt to rally for the cause. And we’ll never get them all. Never have in the past. Never will in the future.

As to your own personal experiences and service? I’d say we, as a nation… and me, as a citizen… are blessed you have survived all, and are here today to debate, fret and demand the best from our youth. And for that, I thank you for your own fortitude… as well as others we have here on FA. We would be a lesser nation if we did not have your presence and valued input.

There is one thing I must say without reserve here! If we really desire change here, and we really desire to return our government to be what our forefathers set in place for us, then there has to be a change I do not see in just the conservative moment, but could only be produced in an uncompromised group. believe me when I say we have long ago been sold out! I had the blessing of knowing Mr. Ronald Reagan and he was a patriot and a real administrator. I would have loved to have lived long enough to know Teddy Roosevelt as well, because he was a true visionary as we need today. For the sacrifice of all those who gave their lives may God judge us worthy to raise up a leader who is for the people, and of the people, and by the people! because otherwise we are in deep trouble!

MATA thank’s, the 21 of august is the last quater of the moon so the crecent come after that
you know CANADA stand with ISRAEL and said they will even fight with them if they are attack

Yes, Bees. I noticed that O’Canada was quick to stand with Israel, and it made me smile. Unfortunately, Canada does not have the US military might which, as Chill rightly says, could make all the difference in advance warnings to that region not to mess with Israel on this level.

MATA YES I thought about it, but the fact that they fought with USA would get the military of USA
to come and align with CANADA, that is my view, and others would joined from NATO
I think
you know there would be trouble wittin the country too because of the sympathyser inside

MATA I think the last quater of the moon is the crescent on 21 august,

MATA , USA will have to join because they will come to us next, if we don’t

Mata; I agree with what you wrote except for the part of fighting for revenge. Thats just the point Mata. Saleh’s corupt regime should have been invaded before Iraq. Or I should say Saleh should have been threatened with the posibility of invasion when he refused to let our FBI question the terrorists, to obtain the information that would have stopped 9/11. They knew he was lying, and were angry that noone would do anything. That the terrorsists had valuable information and not just about the Cole. That something big was in the air. But then Bush compounded the problem by forgetting the Cole, and hoping it would all just blow over. And then according to press and others I have talked too, Bush or Cheny did threatened Saleh with war but after 9/11. When he had to do something! Saleh caved, and let them speak with the terrorists. Individuals from salehs regime have told me that he was scare to death that American would invade after 10/12, and then 9/11. Thats why some even left the regime then. But Bush took Saleh at his word that he would play fair from now on. He did not. He went on to side with AQ for years, and not just by letting the Cole bombers go. His courts let jihadist go to fight our soldiers in Iraq, he played both sides openly, the list is endless but our nation continued to do his bidding. The same with Gadaffi. Our leaders never learn. They get hooked on these scumbags like a junkie to dope. And in the end its always the same old story, “How did this happen!, We gave them everything they wanted, and then some.!”
Even members of the FBI said that Saleh would have cracked if preasured and pushed. But noone on our side pushed. And then when they had a free pass to take the dirtbag out, they did nothing. Some members of congress have been telling two, now three presidents that its way past the time to cut Saleh off. It was not revenge. It was the total failure of two administrations to confront a serious longterm problem. The attack on the Cole was only a symptom of that problem as were all the other attacks before 9/11. Our leaders address problems on a short term basis, and or ignore them. And now the problem has exploded in their faces. Again. When for years there has been a viable alternative to Saleh. But now its even too late for that, unless a miricle happens. We will have another failed state just waiting for the fanatics to take over. And these failed states are starting to pile up real fast. And you can bet that they all have two enemies on their short list. America and Israel. Leadership is not always doing what the majority want. In my letter to Bush I pleaded with him to take action before “thousands of Americans were killed”.
I got some letters back form senators and congresspeople, “Your grief has blinded you. We are safe, and secure. rest easy.” We wanted our sons death, and the 16 others to mean something for once to our leaders. And not just roll with the flow like they always do, and are doing now. So no it was not revenge Mata, it was trying to head off a disaster that we could not believe our leaders could not, and or would not see it. I had friends who said the same thing, and were waiting for the next attack.
And while I am at it! Like the trend I see now, and have for awhile. Our leaders refuse to tell the American people just how bad we need the ME, and its going to be a long stay. That we can pull the troops out in the morning and forget about the ME, but they will be doing pushups till they are ready to came at us again. But only this time the cancer has spread like wildfire.
There lies my frustration Mata. Spineless leaders who fix only half of the problem, like taping duct tape around a busted radiator hose and proclaiming, “All done!.” But in this case the tape is the American Military made up of real people with real families.
I talk to free Yemenis quite often. They cannot understand how our leaders get in bed with an animal like Saleh. I do and I don’t. There is a time for that no matter how distasteful to a degree, but Salehs time passed when he helped to cover up the murder of 17 american sailors, and all the evidence that could have prevented 9/11. And now those same Yemenis are angry that our government has left them hanging, and are looking for another partner to help them. Who will that be? Unfortunately I think it will be the bad guys. Just like with Egypt, Libya, Syria, and the list goes on. And Americans sons and daughters will have to go and fight once again. And more young men and women will lose their lives as a result of leaders who are more worried about their poll numbers than doing the right thing at the right time. I did hear that Clinton made the remark about how he was sorry that he had not go after Saleh years later. I always wondered if these men with overgrown egos ever really thought about all the pain and suffering that their lack of inaction caused. And no I don’t mean our suffering, but all the other families. I learned in my own private life that revenge is not worth the price at a very early age for the person who acts on it. But I also believe that there is a distinct difference between revenge and justice. That justice is measured and weighed with the possible final outcome. And in the Cole case it would have been to prevent another attack, and the dismantling of AQ before the loss of thousands of American lives.
And now here we are, whole countries undergoing dramatic and violent changes, and our own country paralyzed with a looming economical disaster and leaders who can do nothing but point fingers at each other. At times I have to wonder if this is where the beginning of the end starts. But then in the morning I will hear another speech from another politican about how everything is just fine, and not to worry! And I will feel safe and secure once again.