The Unholy Trinity: Obama, Wright-Farrakhan, Gadhafi

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Have you wondered why Obama hasn’t asked Gadhafi to step down after he has killed hundreds if not thousands of his own people; especially, after he told Mubarak he had to step down because of demonstrations. Surprise, Obama has had very close ties with the man who ordered and financed the Lockerbie bombing. Gadahfi is a madman, a homicidal psychopathic maniac; yet our president wants to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Gadahfi speaks well of Obama, last September at the United Nations, he referred to Obama as “My son” or “Our son” on several occasions.

“Can you guarantee after Obama how America will be governed? We are content and happy if Obama can stay forever as president of America.” Gadhafi also reportedly referred to the U.S. president as a “black African Kenyan.”

Gadahfi refers to Obama as a Muslim of

Kenyan origins who has studied in Islamic schools and whose campaign may have been financed by people in the Islamic and African worlds.

Obama’s love for Gadahfi is not wasted, Gadahfi expresses his love for Obama:

Speaking in the Libyan city of Sirt at an event marking the 24th anniversary of an American attack on Libya, he said, “Now, ruling America is a black man from our continent, an African from Arab descent, from Muslim descent, and this is something we never imagined – that from Reagan we would get to Barakeh Obama.”

Gaddafi stressed that Obama’s presidency is “a major historical gain” and said, “He is someone I consider a friend. He knows he is a son of Africa. Regardless of his African belonging, he is of Arab Sudanese descent, or of Muslim descent. He is a man whose policy should be supported, and he should be assisted in implementing it in any way possible, since he is now leaning towards peace.”

He continued, “I urge all peoples to give him this chance and to support this policy, because America is a country that, when its policy is bad – harms the world, and when it is good – it helps the world.”

On Nukes Gadahfi again shows reasoning similar to that of Obama:

Libyan leader says Arab nations and ‘even the Palestinians’ should be allowed nuclear weapons as long as Israel’s nuclear ambitions are tolerated.

Even though Gadahfi is a psychopath, he has a fondness for Obama and Obama, despite his claims, seems to have love for the maniac. Perhaps this love explains, at least partially why the president lied once again when claimed he was “shocked shocked” and knew nothing beforehand of the release of the Lockerbie bomber, Abdel Baset al-Megrahi, a Libyan national hero, by Scotland.

Abdel al-Megrahi was convicted of setting the bomb in Pan Am Flight 103, scheduled from London to New York, on December 21, 1988. The blast killed 243 people on the plane, including 190 Americans, when the debris rained down on the town the total was 270 people killed. The killer was sentenced to life in prison, but inexplicably, he was released on humanitarian grounds because he was suffering from prostate cancer and was only expected to live for three months. Now after 11 months, he is not only still kicking, but he is expected to live ten more years.

Americans were shocked and outraged, except for Obama; he helped broker a deal for BP and Libya that included al-Megrahi as an enticement. It is amazing how our president can betray the American people to be a hero in the Muslim world and to be involved in the exchange of billions of dollars and solidifying his financial future for the rest of his life, over the mangled bodies of 190 Americans. After al -Megrahi landed in Libya, Obama gave $400,000 US tax dollars to a Libyan charity directed by two children of Gadhafi, who each received $200,000. The son Saif was the chief broker for the deal between BP and Libya.

At home, the reverend Jeremiah Wright, Obama’s spiritual advisor for over 20 years has had a very close and personal relationship with Gadhafi, who has supported Wright financially as well as another friend and confidant of the president the leader of the Nation of Islam, Louis Farrakhan. This sheds light on why Obama hasn’t called for a halt to the slaughter of protesters by Gadhafi and has neglected to ask him to step down. America figured it was just part of the president’s personality to dither over important decisions while people die, but the facts far more insidious and sinister.

The chairmen of the House and Senate foreign relations committees have called on Obama to re-impose economic sanctions on Libya, a symbolic and impotent gesture that would at least express America’s displeasure with the Lockerbie mastermind for his callous genocide of his own people in Libya, the same ones that were lifted in 2004.

However there is a slight conflict of interest, Jeremiah Wright, former pastor of Obama’s longtime Chicago church, went with Farrakhan to visit Gadhafi in 1984. During the 2008 campaign Wright was worried that his trip to visit Gadhafi might cause problems for Obama’s image.

“When [Obama’s] enemies find out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli to visit [Gadhafi] with Farrakhan, a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell.”

Farrakhan a neighbor and close friend of Wright and the president, has been bankrolled by Gadhafi, in 1985 he receive a $5 million interest free loan from Gadahfi.

In that same year, Gadahfi spoke to Farrakhan’s Savior’s Day Convention in Chicago and reportedly informed Farrakhan’s followers he was prepared to arm a Black Army in the US to destroy “White America”.

In October 1995, after Farrakhan’s Million Man March, Gadhafi reportedly called Farrakhan with congratulations. He is said said to have assured Farrakhan that together “we will unite our capabilities and efforts to achieve this.”

In 1996, Libya’s news agency, JANA, reported that Farrakhan and Gadhafi had agreed to partner together in order “oppressed blacks, Arabs, Muslims and Red Indians” and reshape U.S. foreign policy.

Gadhafi has said that before his partnership with the Nation of Islam,

“our confrontation with America was like a fight against a fortress from outside.”

Farrakhan has traveled to Libya on numerous occasions; he was awarded the Gadhafi Human Rights Award, in 1996, which included a $250,000 prize. Farrakhan accepted the prize while sanctions with Libya were in place.

Wright and Obama reportedly were in attendance for the Million Man March on Washington, that was led by Farrakhan and other Black leaders like Al Sharpton.

The Rev. Willie Barrow, of Obama campaign’s official Faith Outreach Team as well as an Obama superdelegate, is a close friend of Farrakhan’s and a staunch supporter the Nation of Islam.

Farrakhan has stated that in a 2002 interview, he and Barrow met to devise Nation of Islam platforms.

An adviser to Farrakhan, Marxist activist Cornel West, was an adviser to the presidential campaign of 2008 for Obama, he is a close friend and confidante to Obama.

While attending, Wright’s Trinity United Church, a church of Black Liberation Theology ideology, the Chicago church was in open alliance with Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam.

Wright awarded Farrakhan the 2007 Empowerment Award, a dubious award of Wright’s and Farrakhan lectured at the church on several occasions.

Wright has participated in several Farrakhan initiatives and has called him

“one of the most important voices in the 20th and 21st century”

at a national address for media in April, he invited Nation of Islam officials as guests.

Obama has graced the cover of Trumpet magazine, a magazine that was founded by Wright and Obama granted the magazine an exclusive interview, a magazine that regularly features Farrakhan. In 2006, Obama’s and Farrakhan’s face shared the same cover of Trumpet.

In 2008, during the presidential campaign, a 2004 photo came to light with Obama’s wife, Farrakhan and Obama adviser Barrow at a woman’s luncheon for the Rainbow/Push Coalition a group that has Barrow as a chairman emeritus. The picture includes Khadijah Farrakhan, the wife of Louis Farrakhan.

David Axelrod, Obama’s chief political strategist, a Jew, is on the finance committee of St. Sabina, the Chicago parish led by controversial pastor Michael Pfleger, an outspoken supporter of Farrakhan who has hosted the Nation of Islam leader at his parish on numerous occasions.

In 2008, the Archdiocese of Chicago, relieved Pfleger of his duties at St. Sabina after a sermon at Trinity church in which Pfleger said Hillary Clinton cried in public because she was white and that entitled her to hold the Democratic presidential nomination.

One of Farrakhan’s appearances at Pfleger church in May of 2007, was his first appearance since announcing in 2006 that he was gravely ill with prostate cancer. There were reports that Pfleger spent many hours with Farrakhan during his illness.

America has been fed a bill of goods and now we are being sold out lock, stock, and barrel by Chicago thugs and foreign dictators.

A professional horseman for over 40 years, Skook continues to work with horses. He is in an ongoing educational program, learning life's lessons from one of the world's greatest instructors, the horse. Skook has a personal website skooksjournal.com featuring his personal writings and historical novel type stories.

109 Responses to “The Unholy Trinity: Obama, Wright-Farrakhan, Gadhafi”

  1. 102

    Old Trooper2

    The Absentee Ambassador

    The UN Security Council convened an emergency session yesterday to draft sanctions against Libyan mad- dog Moammar Khadafy.

    But as the UN struggled to put out the fires in the Mideast, America’s top UN rep was nowhere to be found.

    In fact, US Ambassador Susan Rice was 8,000 miles away from UN headquarters, taking tea in South Africa with fellow diplonuts.

    South Africa?

    What the hell?

    Rice flew to sunny Cape Town this week for a “global sustainability” conference to discuss carbon emissions and green economies in the Third World.

    There were plenty of carbon emissions over Tripoli and Benghazi this week — from fighter-jet and helicopter exhaust as Khadafy loyalists strafed protestors in the streets, and from exploding Molotov cocktails. Lead poisoning from stray AK-47 rounds were an issue, too.

    But instead of taking the lead as the United Nations tried to force Khadafy to end his war on his own people, America’s top UN official was essentially AWOL.

    Which is every bit as shameful as it sounds.

    But it’s hardly a surprise, given the Obama administration’s utter cluelessness in the Middle East of late.

    O & Co. have been out to lunch since protests swept dictators out of power in Tunisia and Egypt — just as they’ve been slow to act against Khadafy now.

    Though maybe it’s for the greater good that Rice is an ocean away — when she shows up for work she seems to do even more damage.

    Case in point: Just a week ago, she vetoed an anti-Israel resolution in the Security Council, but immediately unleashed a loathsome attack on Israel, damaging US ties with the Jewish state.

    Her disappearance now sends an odd message to a close ally:

    When it’s time to bash Israel, Rice stays put. When it’s time to get to work on Libya, her deputy can pick up the pieces.

    Again, back in the real world, Libya’s dictator has turned warplanes and helicopter gunships on his own people.

    America’s ambassador has been off in Susan Rice-land. Maybe it would be better if she stayed there for good.

    http://www.nypost.com/f/print/news/opinion/editorials/the_absentee_ambassador_ZgUbQdWIzDjdIjJWgOyO2I

    One Helluva Team! Try explaining THIS to Our NATO Allies who worked overtime to Evacuate THEIR Citizens from Libya while da POTUS dithered and partied.

  2. 104

    richard wheeler

    Missy You’re kidding right. An article about the way this madman dresses?
    We’re looking for ANY positive comment Barack Obama has EVER made about al-Gaddafi .

  3. 108

    Missy

    @richard wheeler:

    Who made you thread moderator?

    It was awful nice of Obama to ok the release of the Lockerbie bomber, no wonder Qadhafi just loves him:

    White House backed release of Lockerbie bomber Abdel Baset al-Megrahi

    THE US government secretly advised Scottish ministers it would be “far preferable” to free the Lockerbie bomber than jail him in Libya.
    ~~~~~~~
    “Nevertheless, if Scottish authorities come to the conclusion that Megrahi must be released from Scottish custody, the US position is that conditional release on compassionate grounds would be a far preferable alternative to prisoner we strongly oppose.”

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/white-house-backed-release-of-lockerbie-bomber-abdel-baset-al-megrahi/story-e6frg6so-1225896741041

  4. 109

    richard wheeler

    Missy What that article says is U.S. was against prison trf. to Libya.Blame the Scot DRS. who certified this guy was about to die.Where is any positve comment from Obama re Gaddafi?

  5. 110

    James Raider

    Hmmm, Hillary must not have been speaking for Obama and his Administration when she met with Libya’s National Security Adviser Mutassim Gaddafi in Washington D.C. on Tuesday, April 21, 2009.

    “I am very pleased to welcome Minister Gaddafi here to the State Department. We deeply value the relationship between the United States and Libya. We have many opportunites to deepen and broaden our cooperation and I am very much looking forward to building on this relationship,” Clinton said.

    Of course not, . . . the President whispered: Present.

    Oh wait, Gaddafi only turned into a killer of his own people this past week. Before that he was just a nice guy from a distant hood.

  6. 112

    richard wheeler

    a.c C’MON As POTUS you shake hands with all heads of state you meet.Still waiting to see one positive statement he’s made about this murderer.

  7. 114

    anticsrocks

    @richard wheeler: Well dick, it is an odd thing. I did a search to see if I could find a picture of Gaddafi shaking hands with Bush – either one, or Clinton, or even Reagan. No go. Couldn’t find one. Heck I couldn’t even find a picture of Ol’ Jimmy Carter shaking his hand.

    That doesn’t tell you anything, dick?

  8. 115

    MataHarley

    premium_subscriber

    You know, rich, it’s rather baffling you believe you need words, just more lofty words from your hero. Personally, I think Obama putting the nation’s wallet where his mouth is (always someone else’s cash with da Zero) by funding Gaddafi’s two “charities”… one of which was funding that flotilla smuggling weaponry into Gaza… just adds to his close relationship with both Wright and Farrakhan. Both of whom are admirers and personal acquaintances of Gaddafi.

    And before you come up with a bunch of horse manure about the Bush admin’s request for Libyan funding in 2008-09, I’d like to straighten your already confused brain cells out. The Bush admin funds that were suggested… only after Libya had dumped their WMDs following Saddam’s deposal, and they had gone thru a trial period of several years… were not allowed to go to Gaddafi personally controlled charities. A little detail that Media Matters liked to leave out when the newly elected Obama started trying to funnel US taxpayer funds to Gaddafi personally in 2009.

    As for convincing you, well I’m quite sure that most of us here, very familiar with you by now, know you wouldn’t change your mind about a murderer on trial if we handed you the smoking gun with fingerprints. So if you don’t have any curiousity about Obama’s political and religious compadres and their relationship with Gaddafi, and prefer to ignore the quite overt Obama State Dept’s loose handling of funds, there’s not much we can do to help you… save stop bothering us with your nagging.

  9. 116

    anticsrocks

    @blast: You said:

    I see, since the Libyans said we could not land aircraft you would violate their sovereignty send in an invasion force and create a pretext for Qaddafi to kill Americans (and others). In your [talking to OT2] scenario many Americans would die needlessly.

    Hmm, I was watching Huckabee and scrolling on the bottom of the screen was a blurb that the UK announced that two of their aircraft violated Libyan airspace and rescued 150 of their citizens from Libya. They landed, gathered their nationals and took off with no casualties or injuries.

    Kinda blows your argument right out the water that planes couldn’t land and rescue citizens without bloodshed….

    In case you don’t believe me:

    In a bold and secret rescue mission on Saturday, British military planes entered Libyan air space and picked up oil workers and others from desert locations. The frigate HMS Cumberland is also returning to the Libyan port of Benghazi to pick up people waiting there. – Source

  10. 118

    Nan G

    Shakin’ in his boots, I bet!

    Obama has WAITED until everyone else weighed in, then
    ….
    accused Gaddafi and his government of taking “extreme measures against the people of Libya, including by using weapons of war, mercenaries and wanton violence against unarmed civilians.”
    ….
    froze Gaddafi’s funds.
    ….
    canceled all military contacts with Libya.
    ……
    ordered a reallocation of U.S. intelligence assets to focus on civilian deaths there and to track Libyan troop deployments and tank movements.
    …..
    in a phone call to German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Obama said Gaddafi needed to go.

    YUP.
    If you were Gaddafi, wouldn’t Obama’s response cause you to shake in your boots?
    LOL!

  11. 119

    Old Trooper2

    No words spoken from the POTUS until after the Saudis promised to increase Oil Production to make up for the Non Production of Libyan Oil due to the “inconvenience” though. The term “dithering” still is applicable though since the US is on a track to become a Former World Power under the Current Regime and Leadership is a tasking now left to “Others”.

    I call it “Wind Sock Diplomacy” for a reason.

  12. 120

    MataHarley

    premium_subscriber

    @richard wheeler: The clearest message I’ve heard from Obama to Gaddafi is “LEAVE NOW” issued Sat.

    Well, once removing his thumb from his posterior, and holding it up in the air for a week or two, he felt comfortable making a decision.

    So can we have the $400K back that he gave to Revolutionary Leader Col. Muammar Abu Minyar al-Qadhafi’s family charities, under his daughter and son’s control, back in 2009 now?

  13. 121

    Old Trooper2

    Do tyrants fear America anymore? President Obama’s timid foreign policy is an embarrassment for a global superpower

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100077875/do-tyrants-fear-america-anymore-president-obama%E2%80%99s-timid-foreign-policy-is-an-embarrassment-for-a-global-superpower/

    The débacle of Washington’s handling of the Libya issue is symbolic of a wider problem at the heart of the Obama administration’s foreign policy. The fact that it took ten days and at least a thousand dead on the streets of Libya’s cities before President Obama finally mustered the courage to call for Muammar “mad dog” Gaddafi to step down is highly embarrassing for the world’s only superpower, and emblematic of a deer-in-the-headlights approach to world leadership. Washington seems incapable of decisive decision-making on foreign policy at the moment, a far cry from the days when it swept entire regimes from power, and defeated America’s enemies with deep-seated conviction and an unshakeable drive for victory.

    Just a few years ago the United States was genuinely feared on the world stage, and dictatorial regimes, strategic adversaries and state sponsors of terror trod carefully in the face of the world’s most powerful nation. Now Washington appears weak, rudderless and frequently confused in its approach. From Tehran to Tripoli, the Obama administration has been pathetically slow to lead, and afraid to condemn acts of state-sponsored repression and violence. When protesters took to the streets to demonstrate against the Islamist dictatorship in Iran in 2009, the brutal repression that greeted them was hardly a blip on Barack Obama’s teleprompter screen, barely meriting a response from a largely silent presidency.

    In contrast to Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush, President Obama fails to see the United States as an exceptional nation, with a unique role in leading the free world and standing up to tyranny. In his speeches abroad he has frequently found fault with his own country, rather than projecting confidence in American greatness. From Cairo to Strasbourg he has adopted an apologetic tone rather than demonstrating faith in America as a shining city upon a hill, a beacon of freedom and liberty. A leader who lacks pride in his own nation’s historic role as a great liberator simply cannot project strength abroad.

    It has also become abundantly clear that the Obama team attaches little importance to human rights issues, and in contrast to the previous administration has not pursued a freedom agenda in the Middle East and elsewhere. It places far greater value upon engagement with hostile regimes, even if they are carrying out gross human rights abuses, in the mistaken belief that appeasement enhances security. This has been the case with Iran, Russia and North Korea for example. This administration has also been all too willing to sacrifice US leadership in deference to supranational institutions such as the United Nations, whose track record in standing up to dictatorships has been virtually non-existent.

    The White House’s painful navel-gazing on Libya last week, with even the French adopting a far tougher stance, is cause for grave concern. The Obama administration’s timid approach to foreign policy is the last thing the world needs at a time of mounting turmoil in the Middle East, including the growing threat of a nuclear-armed Iran, and Islamist militancy on the rise from Egypt to Yemen. US leadership is now needed more than ever, but has embarrassingly gone AWOL on the world stage.

    This from a NATO Ally that has sent their Forces into Libya to rescue their Citizens and others.

  14. 122

    blast

    @old trooper

    a far cry from the days when it swept entire regimes from power, and defeated America’s enemies with deep-seated conviction and an unshakeable drive for victory.

    I wonder what he is speaking of? The Taliban? Iraq? or is he speaking of the invasion of Granada? or the Bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut?

    This has been the case with Iran, Russia and North Korea for example.

    Oh yeah, Iran was sooo scared of Bush they flooded Iraq with IEDs and what did Bush do?… and North Korea was so afraid they blew up a Nuke in 2006. So afraid of the exceptional president.

    Maybe the Europeans should take care of this mess… especially the British since they got in bed with this ass clown when they sought the release of Abdel Baset al-Megrahi.

    Oh, I forgot you want to air drop food and water and interpreters to smooth talk everyone.

  15. 123

    James Raider

    Obama’s interests in international affairs are myopic, and other than changing the internal American landscape, he lacks the intellectual interest to move beyond the mildly amused, on all things foreign. That has been very evident.

    Clinton knew that, and that is why she took the State position. She does whatever she wants, freely traveling the world, confident that there’s no one home back in the Oval Office to bother her.

  16. 124

    blast

    @Old Trooper

    Only Blast thinks that a Dictator that is 12 Hours away from being deposed represents Sovereignty.

    from comment#28 – February 24, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    @ blast, This is not *CLASSIFIED* and is now considered *Open Source*

    Fer Yer Info, Skippy! ( Things that were considered are now Unnecessary)

    Gaddafi’s empire crumbles as his inner circle abandon him

    PS, His Military was in Mutiny Mode 3 days ago. Thanks for Playing!

    (from OldTrooper2) comment 55 February 26, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    You are still MEASURABLY WRONG OldTrooper2… and counting. So SKIPPY, it has been more than a week and Gaddafi is still in Libya, still commanding loyal troops. So much for your 12 hour prediction.

  17. 125

    Gun Toting Redneck

    @disenchanted: I find this whole article disturbing! After the many years my brothers ,cousins, uncles and husband all fought in the US Military to keep this country FREE.. We are now dealing with the ugly radicals that are distroying the most wonderful country in the world!! May God help us all!!! Most of the citizens of this country LOVE it … so let the ones who don’t, LEAVE it and go live in Libia!!

  18. 126

    Old Trooper 2

    @ blast, What I can say in all confidence is that what You think You know about the situation by comparison to the realities of US inaction would fit quite keenly as a suppository for a gnat.

    This murder and mayhem has gone on unabated for 19+ Days and could have been resolved in under 72 hours but for the “Consultations” and outright dithering. Again, What You know is less than what is ground truth and what You can speculate upon is what is frankly above your pay grade. Everyone is an “expert” when You have nothing at risk. so get Yourself a cup of sit down and STFU while others that could have nipped this in the bud early on were told to do the same.

    Take a dunce cap out of petty cash. You earned it.

  19. 127

    anticsrocks

    @blast: You are like a little kid, in the school yard, saying, “Nyah, nyah, nyah! Told you so!”

    I believe that OT’s original comment was not so much a prediction as an assessment of the situation at the time. Are you saying that Gaddafi WASN’T 12 hours away from losing power at that time?

    If so, how do you know that for fact?

    I would venture to say that there have been several times since this started that he might be only hanging on to his power by the skin of his teeth.

    You linear thinking will undo you every time.

  20. 128

    Old Trooper 2

    While Dithering and Consultation continues… and don’t forget golf outings…

    Libya lurches close to full-blown civil war

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f1db21c8-4693-11e0-967a-00144feab49a.html

    Al-Jazeera, the Arab satellite channel, reported that electricity, the internet and telephone communications had been cut in Zawiya, which has endured two days of heavy attacks from regime forces. The regime has previously shut down communications, making it impossible to verify much of the information coming out of the country.

    Ok, so now Panetta gets only CNN for his “Top Seekret” info. Our CIA is on the job and on top of it!

    Heavy gunfire broke out in central Tripoli before first light and continued for many hours, in what officials and pro-government demonstrators said was celebration at the big gains claimed by Col Gaddafi’s regime. But opposition officials dismissed the claims.

    “We are dealing with military and psychological warfare,” said Mustafa Gheriani, an opposition spokesman. “These are all lies . . . the regime is trying to spread this propaganda to its own people.

    Mohammed, an opposition fighter in Misurata, said the battle there lasted for five hours, during which pro-Gaddafi forces entered the city with about 20 tanks. The rebels managed to repel the regime’s forces and capture three tanks, he said.

    “They shelled buildings, it was very heavy shelling,” he said. “We managed to surround the tanks and attack them from different directions and we were able to disperse them.”

    While there is no “No Fly” and the resources to halt this Fighting are on a Float in the Suez or in the Med and the Troops and Humanitarian Aid assets are still in the barn. By the way, no Humanitarian Aid can begin until the shooting stops. You cant pass out the band aids, cookies and milk until the class settles down. Been there done that…Somalia… a Clinton Regime Fail

    (Planned Actions are Not Necessary because National Command Authority…spelled POTUS…will not green light it)

  21. 129

    James Raider

    The blood in the streets will increase – Gaddafi has long had mercenaries hired from African countries to the South who don’t even speak Arabic, and certainly have no empathy for the locals they are killing. Helicopter gunships are an effective slaughtering tool.

    This is turning into another embarrassment for Mr. “Present.” The air around Libya should long have been CLOSED.

    . . . Humanitarian Aid INDEED.

  22. 130

    blast

    @anticsrocks

    You are like a little kid, in the school yard, saying, “Nyah, nyah, nyah! Told you so!”
    I believe that OT’s original comment was not so much a prediction as an assessment of the situation at the time. Are you saying that Gaddafi WASN’T 12 hours away from losing power at that time?
    If so, how do you know that for fact?

    Well given OldTrooper2 is the self appointed “Expert” who implies that he is somehow privy to intelligence reports (read his comment #55) I knew he was full of bs… and is prediction was not a little off, but WAY off. This is not a Nyah moment, but pointing out shear hubris of OldTrooper2’s comments. Keep in mind OldTrooper2 mocks anyone who does not agree with him; I feel it only fair at that point to tell the self appointed bully he is full of himself.

  23. 131

    Zac

    Well Blast you have officially made an ass of yourself.

    I wouldn’t blame OT if he doesent respond to you, its a waste of time to argue with people who have such low intellects.

  24. 132

    blast

    @OldTrooper2

    everyone is an “expert” when You have nothing at risk.

    Listen, one does not have to be in the line of fire to have an opinion. You have nothing at risk, and whatever your pay grade really is, it probably is too high given your uninformed input.

    This murder and mayhem has gone on unabated for 19+ Days and could have been resolved in under 72 hours but for the “Consultations” and outright dithering.

    You are good at making wild assertions of solutions. At the beginning of this you wanted to parachute in food and water before parachuting in troops, and that was to help remove Americans citizens… which of course was not needed and a very dangerous and ill-informed approach.

  25. 133

    blast

    @Zac

    Well Blast you have officially made an ass of yourself.

    I wouldn’t blame OT if he doesent respond to you, its a waste of time to argue with people who have such low intellects.

    Honestly, I could careless if OldTrooper2 responds. If you read his comments in this post and agree with his opinions fine. I don’t. He is reckless and has been measurably wrong with his predictions, especially for someone who implies is somehow plugged into the intelligence apparatus… he obviously is not.

  26. 134

    Randy

    I must agree with Zac. OT2 has been there and done that. What have you done that would allow you to share your experiences? Zip? Well, that explains your witty answers to someone who has been there and was sharing experienced assessments.

  27. 135

    blast

    @Randy

    I must agree with Zac. OT2 has been there and done that. What have you done that would allow you to share your experiences? Zip? Well, that explains your witty answers to someone who has been there and was sharing experienced assessments.

    If you read the thread and agree with his assessment then fine, that is your opinion. However it is not an opinion to say OldTrooper2 was wrong with his assessment. And as to OldTrooper2 “been there and done that” – well… he can say what he wants.

  28. 136

    MataHarley

    premium_subscriber

    blast: Listen, one does not have to be in the line of fire to have an opinion. You have nothing at risk, and whatever your pay grade really is, it probably is too high given your uninformed input.

    …snip…

    And as to OldTrooper2 “been there and done that” – well… he can say what he wants.

    blast, you are certainly entitled to your own opinion. However your personal insults of OT, who is indeed who he claims to be, make me ecstatic that you are no longer a grunt in our military… and that you never rose to the paygrade you so demean here.

    You should take a good gander at yourself in the mirror, bubba. Right now, it ain’t a pretty sight. But take heart… there’s always tomorrow.

    In the meantime, despite your own service and sacrifices, in my eyes you have demoted your own perspective “paygrade” as a former military immeasurably with your comments here. Extremely disappointing. And somewhat unexpected given your general respect towards military and superiors.

  29. 137

    blast

    @ mata. I hear you, but when it comes to insults, I respond in kind. If you dial it back to comment #15, I said:

    I see you just want to make this personal. Although I respect you for your service, I differ with your opinion. If I were to speak frankly, it is wildly reckless proposition given the present threat, and the amount of exposure we have on the ground.

    It seems though OldTrooper2 wanted to become insulting and yes, I have reacted to that… and am never happy about having to return one dig for another.

    edit: but I have heard you, and will try to restrain my enthusiasm for returning barbs.

  30. 139

    MataHarley

    premium_subscriber

    @blast, I “dialed it back” not only to your comment #15, but OT’s comments #11 and #14. Nothing in there deserved the “…yeah sure, you are such an expert on everything.” retort. OT is, indeed, of high rank and privvy to more intel and strategy. That you disagree with his assessment is not enough to cast your personal aspersions. So I think you escalated it, and based that escalation on a presumption that OT is not who he presents himself to be.

    May I suggest to you, personally, that is a strategically wrong assumption to proceed upon?

    I know you to be a passionate opposer to Iraq action, but I don’t see you as passionate INRE military leadership in general. Nor do I see you as one who is normally dismissive of military leadership. It is my suggestion that you address OT with the respect he deserves for his decades of services, and I’m quite sure that he will respond in kind for your own service as a Marine.

  31. 140

    blast

    @ mata – I hear you, I trust you know what you know about OT, I will take that 100%. – and in #15 I was being clear on what I found objectionable “Folks like You would wait and carry bodies out later.” was the quote that was from OT#14 – That is insulting and I quoted it prior to me responding back “…yeah sure, you are such an expert on everything.” He does not know me, my experiences and cannot make a judgment on “folks like me”.

    Anyway. Thanks for your feedback Mata.

  32. 141

    MataHarley

    premium_subscriber

    “folks like you” mean those who are intent on playing the safe PC route, at the risk of lives, blast. That is not a “personal” assault, since you already make it quite clear that is the strategy you would take.

    So in that “folks like you” instance, I agree with OT. If “folks like you” were in charge… and they are in the WH… the results are less than desirable. Current events show that to be just the case.

    Meanwhile, I hope the more active nations get their own out of “opposition” (bwahahahahahaha) detention.

    There are many instances of conflicts where there are no good guys, and all bad guys, involved. Look to the ME to see that example.

  33. 142

    blast

    @ mata, although history in this incident is not totally written, the history of what happened early in this comment thread is.

    The main point of contention was over how we deal with the Americans fleeing Libya and what “needed” to be done to get them out safely. The crux of the argument was over that issue. I felt the threat against the Americans was not strong enough to take such muscular action as OldTrooper2 was advocating. As it worked out, in this limited situation, the Americans were safely evacuated from Libya. We did not have to parachute in and secure airfields and we did not have the risk of a nut case like Muammar Gaddafi shooting down a transport plane or attacking the troops or evacuating civilians. End of story. Happy Ending. All done. Americans safe. So if you are trying to say I am PC because I felt the threat was not strong enough to take that risk… I am guilty… but honestly it is not about political correctness. It was about practicality and using the best option FIRST. Which we did and it was successful.

    Now if we fast forward to what might be needed today… dithering (even saw that word used on the factor tonight)… Well, I am on the same side as that liberal PC Sen Lugar.

    http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/07/sen-lugar-on-libya-i-believe-its-a-civil-war/

    Well, people, unfortunately, are dying throughout the Middle East. There are disruptions. There are people rebelling against authority. There are authorities killing people who are rebelling against authority.

    Now, the basic question for the United States and/or for the United States as part of an alliance, is are we prepared to come in, take hold of the situation and say now we’re going to straighten this thing out, folks, we’re behind this group and democracy is our goal now and so forth?

    We have been down that road before. We are still working our way through that road in Iraq, even in the late stages, haven’t quite got there, certainly, in Afghanistan. And the American people really have to understand at this point that if we are prepared for more war, for more conflict, for more American boots on the ground, that is a huge commitment. And that requires, I believe, a declaration of war by the Congress of the United States, not an informal thought that somehow a no fly zone, with or without danger, might be imposed.

    There are more to his comments, just go to the link.

    Lugar has over 30 years in the Senate (and ranking member of the Foreign Relations Committee), and I suspect his access to classified information is higher than anyone here. His comments make common sense to me.

  34. 143

    Randy

    It is easy to make the right decision on Monday morning. What about if you were there sitting on an isolated dock with no food or water for days? Given the situation m it would have only taken one person with a machine gun to make this a disaster. Then after wards, you are billed for being rescued by a civilian ferry that was 2 days late. Compared to the actions by other countries who were concerned about their citizens, this was a very lame and risky response.

  35. 144

    Randy

    @blast:Blast, have you been in Iraq and worked with the people there? Have you ever been in any country where you worked with the people to help them rebuild their country? Thought not! Have you any idea how long it takes a country to set up a democratic government? Do you know what a democratic government is?

    Our founding fathers thought a democracy was one of the worst forms of governments. History showed democracies didn’t last or could be oppressive. That is why they elected to form a republic instead of a democracy. That took several decades without much interference from terrorists.

    I really have to laugh at you and those like you who think any country can build a police force, an effective military and a representative government within a few years. From your statements here at FA, you really have no idea what is happening in the Middle-east. You know only what the same people who were surprised with the events in the Middle-east are saying. Is that a good source or would you like to have some real intel from someone who has qualified sources on the ground? Oh, that is right. Real assessments might challenge your reality.

  36. 145

    anticsrocks

    @blast: First of all, you neglected to answer my questions. Secondly, you do yourself a disservice by making it known you are former military. The way you act and talk, you bring nothing but shame upon your own service.

    And lastly, let us just for one second say that OT was wrong – just for argument’s sake. Does it really make you feel better to rub it in? Is your self esteem THAT low?? If so, that is sad and for that I truly pity you.

    But I will stand by my statement that there have probably been several times since the uprisings in Libya began that Gaddafi has been close to losing power.

    Do you disagree with that statement?

  37. 146

    blast

    @ Randy

    It is easy to make the right decision on Monday morning. What about if you were there sitting on an isolated dock with no food or water for days? Given the situation m it would have only taken one person with a machine gun to make this a disaster.

    You are right Monday morning quarterbacking is easy to do. Your hypothetical for instance… lets say we did decide to proceed with the suggestion OldTrooper2 had made and we parachuted in etc. The same issues could have manifested themselves. Security at the port could have opened up on the boat. Our service members killed or captured.

    There might have been a time for that type of operation, however it did not appear that dire to risk that form of escalation. And now it is Tuesday, and we know it was a success. So I guess you are arguing with a could-a when history shows us the right move paid off.

    Blast, have you been in Iraq and worked with the people there? Have you ever been in any country where you worked with the people to help them rebuild their country? Thought not! Have you any idea how long it takes a country to set up a democratic government? Do you know what a democratic government is?

    Yes, Yes, No, Yes.

  38. 147

    blast

    @anticsrocks

    First of all, you neglected to answer my questions. Secondly, you do yourself a disservice by making it known you are former military. The way you act and talk, you bring nothing but shame upon your own service.

    Actually, I could care less about what you think, you do not know me or my service. I stand by my argument and if you can find anything I have said in this thread as factually untrue let me know. As it relates to OT, you can reread my exchange with mata.

    Are you saying that Gaddafi WASN’T 12 hours away from losing power at that time?
    If so, how do you know that for fact? I would venture to say that there have been several times since this started that he might be only hanging on to his power by the skin of his teeth.

    You are making an assumption that Qaddafi has been hanging onto power by the skin of his teeth… what evidence do you have to substantiate that… and remember you have to defend your position based upon what was going on nearly 2 weeks ago.

    To answer your question, I did not feel he would fall like Hosni Mubarak because we had no real connection to Libya’s military like we did with Egyptian military leaders. Egypt has more of a civil society, bureaucracy and a professional military with close ties to our military leaders. Libya has been out in the cold for many years and only recently has the door been open to them. Qaddafi has a history of using terror and poor judgment. I knew he would have no where to go, and would fight to hold power regardless the cost. What do you think a mad dog would do… leave power voluntarily?

    You linear thinking will undo you every time.

    Well, I could have been proven wrong, but I wasn’t. If you look back I did respond in 24 hours after the claim to point out it was off. Since time is linear (unless you have some other measurement) we are 12 days since Gaddafi was predicted to be gone in 12 hours.

    And btw… if you were conducting an exchange with someone and they made a statement (in a diminishing way towards you) that xyz would happen in 12 hours and it didn’t, well, you would have every right to point out the fallacy in the argument.

  39. 148

    Dink Newcomb

    @Nan G #33:

    I wasn’t alive when the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand sparked WWI. But I’m just betting no one saw it as the beginning of a world-wide firestorm until long afterward. It makes me wonder: what will be designated as the spark that started WWIII?

    Actually Nan, it was, at least, seen as the spark that might set fire to Europe. There were a whole bunch of interlocking treaties that REQUIRED various countries to respond in protection of various other countries. None of the leaders of the major player countries wanted the war for this reason and diplomatic efforts were underway to prevent it. Despite that, a bunch of weak monarchs (sound familiar) were sidestepped, manipulated, lied to and outright coerced into this huge global man killer. The monarchs could easily be blamed later since very few survived the war (or the short-term aftermath) in anything but a ceremonial capacity.
    Some curious trivia you might not know:
    =The Duke was warned by numerous knowledgable people NOT to go to Sarajevo during Serbian National Day but chose to go anyway and in a what was he thinking moment, also published his route through the city
    =On the way to town hall to meet with the mayor, his small convoy (in open cars) was attacked by “black hand” nationalists (muslim serbs) recruited by Serbian army officers. There were some casualities but the Duke was unhurt.
    =On the return from town hall, the duke’s general in the bodyguard demanded a return via an alternative route but neglected to tell the driver.
    =Gavrilo Princip, one of the assassins had been further along the route when the original attack happened and was unable to get involved. Dispirited to have missed his chance at glory, Princip wandered homeward and stopped for a sandwich and a beer.
    =As the motorcade returned, the driver, sticking to the original plan, turn into a smaller street. Three stooges moment– As commotion in response to the wrong turn ensued, the driver stopped the car to back up a few yards away from the tavern Princip was just stepping out of. Princip was young but not stupid and brandishing his .380 cal Browning model 1910, he stepped to the car and started blasting away.
    =Princip was too young to execute so he languished in jail for several years only to die in prison (on the site of the later Nazi death camp Thereisenstadt) from TB and complications ensuing from wounds due to his apprehension.

    To establish that this is really not off topic, I would like to make these points:
    =The war was ignited by the actions of a bunch of Muslim (first) Nationalists (second)
    =The act of assassination itself was so ridiculous that you would not believe it if you saw it as a movie plot. This sort of thing crops up again and again throughout history. So often, the Greeks attributed these things to hubris- arrogant, faithless man daring the gods to strike him down. This scares me as much as the rest.
    =The war was fanned to flame by another bunch of people who sought glory/revenge/anarchy despite the actions of those in (presumptive) control. If there had been just a few STRONG monarchs in the mix, the world might have been spared this agony. At the moment, we have a sackless POTUS who seems oblivious to the ramifications of military action so long as it is done in a warm and fuzzy way.
    Humans learned nothing from the loss of a generation of men and less than twenty years later, all the european participants were back at it in what many say was just a continuation.

  40. 149

    Dink Newcomb

    Responding to Skookum, original post

    Dern if you can read this post and Not suffer sphincter clenching you should cut back on the Prozac

    Poor Hilary! I wonder who she is crying for now that the darkies have taken over the plantation and she is O’Bs sit and fetch lap dog

    a sermon at Trinity church in which Pfleger said Hillary Clinton cried in public because she was white and that entitled her to hold the Democratic presidential nomination.

  41. 150

    anticsrocks

    @blastie: Apologies to Curt for this necroposting, but have been having computer issues and didn’t get some emails on a timely basis, the update on this thread being one of them.

    When I said linear thinking blastie, I was referring to your singular thought that Gaddafi was weilding great power. He, at times was fighting opposition from within his government so it is easy to understand that for a while it was probably “iffy” as to whether he would stay or go.

    As for my statement about your political ideology in context with your service to our country, well I shall let what I said stand.

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