Take a look at the garbage the AP is putting out as a valid poll:
President Barack Obama’s health care overhaul has divided the nation, and Republicans believe their call for repeal will help them win elections in November. But the picture’s not that clear cut.
A new AP poll finds that Americans who think the law should have done more outnumber those who think the government should stay out of health care by 2-to-1
~~~The poll found that about four in 10 adults think the new law did not go far enough to change the health care system, regardless of whether they support the law, oppose it or remain neutral. On the other side, about one in five say they oppose the law because they think the federal government should not be involved in health care at all.
The AP poll was conducted by Stanford University with the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation
Robert Wood Johnson Foundation…..hmmm, who might they be?
Our strategy
Americans’ lack of meaningful access to affordable and stable health care coverage has been a central concern of the Foundation since its inception 35 years ago.
~~~In light of an evolving environment and promising opportunities, we are working in several areas to accomplish our goal of ensuring that everyone in America has affordable and stable health care coverage.
~~~Conducting Research and Analysis on Factors that Affect Availability of Affordable, Stable Coverage. We are particularly interested in commissioning, conducting and disseminating innovative research and policy analysis that will reveal the fundamental barriers to achieving affordable and stable health care coverage for all, including the rapidly rising cost of care and the structural features of private health insurance markets.
So let me get this straight. A foundation, whose sole goal is to get ObamaCare implemented, gave money to Stanford to conduct a poll on healthcare and shockingly Stanford found people want even more ObamaCare.
Give me a break.
I’ve yet to find the original polling data but Mac did:
I obtained a copy of the polling sample. It’s heavily weighted as you would expect. But additionally that “random sample” across the nation polling method actually only targeted blue states which would make a 2-1 result a no braining.
States were primarily in the North East, and none of the sample came from any of the so-called red territories of the South.
The AP can proclaim this as some kind of validation of their Socialist dreams but only a blind fool would see this poll as unbiased.
See author page
So, a numbeer of Liberals think that the OBAMACARE DID NOT GO
FAR ENOUGH TO FAULT, I mean FIX healthcare.
We wonder how many of those people have elderly parents that
OBAMA will kill off quickly?
We wonder how those people will feel when the OBAMIANS
keep asking their elderly parents if they are ready to die yet
and are they ready for the pink pill to put them away.?
We wonder how many of those people have children with
a problem that OBAMACARE will not cover and get ready
to say goodbye to that kid?
We wonder if any of them will need a CATSCAN or some
other scope that will tell them how to correct some malady
but it is neither covered by OBAMACARE or is the person allowed
to pay for it themselves. NOPE – IT IS NOT ALLOWED PERIOD!
@ tess, #1:
While you’re wondering how many Americans are worried about things that were never part of the bill to begin with, I’m wondering how many Americans would really want to roll back actual Health Care Reform provisions that just went into effect. As of this past Thursday:
Insurers can no longer cut off your coverage for essential treatments because you’ve just reached some arbitrary lifetime benefit limit.
Insurers can no longer deny coverage to your under-age-19 child if he or she has a pre-existing condition.
Insurers can no longer drop your coverage after you become sick, based on some error or innocent mistake that they’ve just coincidentally discovered on your possibly years-old application.
If republicans want to repeal those provisions, and the rest the Obama Health Care Reform Bill, they’d better get it done before the American public finds out what it is they’re actually trying to get rid of. The facts are not going to be their friends.
Greg,
Do you think that any of those provisions you list will go into effect without increasing the cost of health care insurance?
You think the world owes you health care, buddy? They DON’T. You are not entitled to other people’s money, even if the Democrats you worship say so.
I’m glad Mac found the “original polling data”, but chagrined that he simply gave a synopsis without making that date available, Curt.
I had immediately gone on the hunt for who was polled, breakdown, etc. No one wanted to provide the specifics. Oddly enough, the one who volunteered the most information was an ABC article.
“Randomly generated telephone numbers and home addresses”? Not likely voters. Not registered voters. Nor a number of participants who did not have Internet access. Now what category of Americans are the most unlikely to have no Internet access?
Well, that’s an interesting one in itself. According to Knowledge Networks, who conducted the poll:
Per their schpiel on the accuracy of their address based samples, they believe that they are covering more demographics than other polls, and thereby believe they are a more accurate picture of the nation.
Personally, opinions of citizens who are not registered, nor likely to vote, don’t mean a hill of beans. They are less likely to be informed on the issues if either of those categories. But it’s a rare find to happen upon an unopinioned unregistered voter these days….
In short, 1251 citizens that have “probability of being selected” of unknown nationality, voter status, or party registration … plus being provided computers and server access for free… doesn’t give me tons of confidence in results. Nor do they bother to provide the questions asked, and how the issues are framed.
But then, admittedly, I’m not much of a polls person anyway. If anyone cares to find out more about the capital venture companies that keep Knowledge Networks alive and well, here’s the mainstay provided on their website.
INRE The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation:
As, Curt and Mac note, they are an organization who’s stated slogan is “The mission of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation is to improve the health and health care of all Americans. Our goal is clear: To help our society transform itself for the better.” Not hard to figure out how they stand. They published a research finding on whether or not O’healthcare would reduce, or increase, the national debt just weeks before funding this poll thru Stanford/Knowledge Networks. From the Conclusion:
Doesn’t sound like they are too optimistic themselves. Nor do they seem concerned. Apparently, it’s a workable template to them. Why would they be? Little in O’healthcare does anything to stop runaway costs of provided health care to patients. Just absconds more money from more individuals, mandated to participate, to cover the runaway costs. Dumb… This rather like the idiot business owner who figures it costs him to much to make a product for sale, so he figures he’ll just sell more and make up for it.
So we know where their agenda lies. That, however, doesn’t give much credibility in their chosen sampling methods.
This is almost as bad (but not quite) as the Lancet ”study” that used stringers asking people they personally knew only to try to extrapolate how many people Allied forces killed in the first year of the Iraq war.
At least in this poll real people were polled, skew in the choice of persons aside.
In Iraq the same death was counted dozens of times as the question was, do you know of anyone who was killed?
When a stringer asked his cousin and all their neighbors the same death was magnified as over and over again the same death was counted.
Good work by posters here and the links in getting to near the raw data.
An honest pollster does not hide his raw data.
That should be an immediate wake-up call regarding any poll in the media.
Nope, but I don’t mind paying more for what I consider to be very positive changes.
@Greg #2
I guess you missed the part in the bill that creates an independent board that are permanently assigned (Not elected officials), that have the power to adjust rates and/or treatments that go in to affect immediately unless the congress on executive pass a law stopping the changes:
http://www.breitbart.tv/obamas-budget-director-powerful-rationing-panel-not-doctors-will-control-health-care-levels/
Also not to mention the fact that Dr. Donald Berwick, President Obama’s head of the Centers for Medicaid and Medicare Services direct quote: “The decision is not whether or not we will ration care — the decision is whether we will ration with our eyes open.” http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/539753/201007081859/The-Presidents-One-Man-Death-Panel.aspx
I say, if the libs want to continue down the path of denial, then that is OK with me.
Soon enough they will try to move on to bargaining. That is when we will return the comment to them that they once made to us. “We won, you lost.”
@Greg: Let me tell you what happened to me, personally.
I am a disabled person with a congenital heart defect. Because of this, I have Medicare as my health insurance. I am now presently also in Congestive Heart Failure. This past summer in August, I had occasion to visit my local ER because I was having pretty bad chest pain and other cardiac related symptoms.
As I said, this is a local ER in a city of about 15,000 people. Because of my condition and the fact that I grew up in this town, I am known to many of the staff of the local hospital.
Immediately upon admittance to the ER the nursing staff drew blood from me to send to the lab for what they call a Cardiac Enzyme Panel. This is a blood test to see if there are certain amounts of certain enzymes in your blood. The presence of these enzymes can indicate many cardiac related maladies, such as a heart attack or congestive heart failure. As soon as the results came back from the lab, the ER doc said I needed to be admitted to the hospital because the test showed that I was in congestive heart failure.
That doctor tried for three hours to admit me, but Medicare kept denying it. He finally told me that since Medicare would not let him admit me, I should see my cardiologist ASAP. I told him good luck with that, because my cardiologist is very busy and when I call for an appointment, there is usually a 3 week wait or more. Imagine my surprise when the ER doc came back in a few minutes with an appointment for me scheduled for the next day. He also gave me a print out of the results of my Cardiac Enzyme Panel to take with me.
As I read the results of my CEP test on my way home, I realized that the levels of certain enzymes, such as troponin, in my blood reported by the CEP test were actually lower than this during an ER visit that I had in 2008. At the time of that visit, I was admitted to the local hospital and transferred to the hospital where my cardiologist works. But during this ER visit, with levels higher than in 2008 I was denied admittance to the hospital by Medicare repeatedly.
It seems that health care rationing is beginning. There is no other way to explain this. You just can’t take a half a billion dollars out of Medicare without it affecting the benefits that are available.
So those cursed “death panels” that the “extremists in the far right” were “fear mongering” about aren’t so far fetched now, huh?
You know, I once read that a conservative is simply a liberal who has been mugged by reality.
In a way, this ObamaCare is setting up a whole bunch of liberals for their muggings.
It might not come in the first year or so.
But it will come.
They will innately know they they, or a spouse, or child, or parent, or friend could have been saved but will die because of the rationing of care under Obama’s new plan.
Somebody needs to find that old Obama fan, Peggy.
You remember her?
Obama got elected and now she won’t have to worry about paying her mortgage, gas bills and so on.
How IS Peggy?
@ Nan G, a Conservative is someone that knows that there is no Free Lunch, Freedom is not Free. Rights come with Responsibilities, you can still have a checkbook but no money and when the wolf comes to your door, He will steal your Liberty in exchange for a false sense of security and wants to get your community “organized”.
A Conservative is almost an extinct species in America these days. 😉
Greg @2
That’s like asking a man on death row if would would be willing to give up the ‘free last meal’.
Greg, once again you have no clue but bias. I have worked in the health care industry for over 30 years. I have worked in private and government run. Believe me when I say that the government run system creates more waste than you could ever imagine. Next time your in California stop by any emergency room and see the real waste as we provide healtcare to the illegals who have just crossed our borders for this specific care. You my friend are a moron.
Common Sense,
As a proud member of the “Ace of Spades” Killer Keyboard elite fighting force, I resent you characterizing Greg as a moron. He clearly is not moron stuff. He is barely even sub-moronic.
@OT2…
Well, with the MSM being run by leftist elites, it might seem like it, but I can assure you OT, America is a center-right country and we conservatives outnumber those on the left by a large margin.
Like him or not, Newt Gingrich makes a great speaker and when he tells of the struggle in Poland in the ’80s to overthrow their tyrannical rulers in the Soviet Union, he makes an excellent point. He tells of the 9 days that Pope John Paul II visited Poland in 1979 and had HUGE masses, while talking of freedom and liberty. Gingrich then tells how Lech Walensa speaks of attending those masses and looking around and realizing, after seeing the huge numbers of people there, that they GREATLY outnumbered the ruling class.
I submit that it is kinda like that here in the US. We conservatives go about our business day to day, taking care of our families and neighbors and the occasional stranger, living our lives and practicing our conservative values. But what we need to do is to stop and look around and realize that we GREATLY outnumber the elites in DC and the left in general. Once we do that, we can then go about setting our country back on the right track.
I stand humbly corrected!! If Greg’s IQ would be 1 less he would be classified a plant.
Folk regardless which poll you look at we’re evenly split on this topic. And honestly, most folks have NO idea what the bill does and does not do. They only know what the loudmouths at Fox tell them. Present company included.
I’m sure you will all be willing to give up medicare and social security because you’ve all saved up enough to pay $1500 to $2000 a month for health care when you get older from the vast retirement savings you build up. Or maybe from your pension which you’d not have if it were not for work Unions have done in the past.
We should let hospitals turn away folks with no money so that if any of you are unlucky enough to get laid off and lose your insurance you’re out of luck. Maybe we can set up some cots for you to die on. No Government anything!
Do you folks know that the most efficiently run and highest patient rated health care system in the US is the VA? Yes, it’s run by, Oh no, the government. (look it up, all true).
I say we let the sick just die in a corner. That’s what a good “christian” country should do right? We should just let the “least of our brothers” suffer because they did not get the breaks you got? Yes breaks. No one gets to the top or is successful without breaks of one type or another. Read Malcom Gladwell’s book from a few years ago Outliers but warning, it has lots of numbers and data to prove his points you’ll have to debunk.
Yeah! you won you won! Think about this. Republicans won the house, nothing more. Most mid term elections turn BOTH houses. And since a large percent of dems did not turn out on Tuesday history of the President who looses the midterm (which is very common btw) wins handily his second term. So enjoy your short lived thrill.
@Bob king: You said:
Yep, it is true. The Government reported that it’s own VA Healthcare system is top notch. In other news, the Fox guarding the hen house said all is well.
Obamacare is atrocious and folks are learning just how bad it is. There are many awful things looming on the horizon. Things that were tucked away, only to surface after it is too late – or so the Dems thought.
Here are just a few nuggets of information concerning Obamacare. The same Obamacare that Bob says no one knows anything about and that Fox News lies about. BTW, I got NONE of the following info from Fox News.
* In Jan 2011 you can no longer use FSA’s or HSA’s to buy OTC drugs.
* In Jan 2011 $140 billion is being taken OUT of Medicare. This will limit provisions for dental, eye and comprehensive prescription-drug coverage that these policies provide. It is not known how severe these cuts will be.
* In 2014 the Medicare Advisory Board will be created to decide who gets what healthcare.
* The New England Journal of Medicine published a study showing that nearly half (46%) of all physicians will leave the practice under Obamacare.
* The Government Actuary reports that 23 million people will remain uninsured under Obamacare by 2019. Gee, didn’t Bob say, “I say we let the sick just die in a corner. That’s what a good “christian” country should do right? We should just let the “least of our brothers” suffer because they did not get the breaks you got?”
* Raises taxes by $569 billion on small businesses and creates a new marriage penalty with new income and investment taxes.
* Cuts Medicare by $523 billion.
* Increases premiums by 10% for people without employer-based insurance.
* Expands the power of the IRS to enforce a government mandate that requires Americans to purchase government-approved insurance.
* If you want protective care such as colonoscopies and mammograms, you have to pay the full annual premium cost up front, at the beginning of each year in addition to your first month’s premiums. It is “available to all” but not affordable to all.
* all medical devices will be taxed at much higher rates than before Obama, forcing medical costs higher.
* In order to pay for Obamacare, the Dems are planning on eliminating the homeowner’s tax deduction on their mortgage interest.
* The reform law is also designed to push patients and doctors into an HMO-style arrangement, called “Accountable Care Organizations.” The cooperating doctors will work for the State, essentially, and the patients will do what they are told to do by the 15 member advisory panel. This all begins in 2014.
* This bill will raise more than $500 BILLION in new taxes by raising payroll taxes, fines to businesses, new investment taxes, fees on medical technology companies. All medical equipment will be taxed in order to help pay for this monster.
Hey Bob, I have news for you: The silent majority is finally awakened in this country and you are just gonna hafta deal with it. You remember that silent majority, don’t you? The “racist” Tea Party. Hmmm, the “monochromatic” Tea Party that elected women, blacks, and hispanics to office in the mid-term elections.
@Bob king:
🙄
http://uspolitics.about.com/od/elections/a/midterm_myth.htm
@ Bob king, Hey Bobbo, ever receive treatment at a VA Hospital? Ever visited one? Ever received treatment at WRAMC or Bethesda?
Reply to those questions before I decide to take you to the woodshed. Sniping here at FA is a real barrel of fun until someone calls your bluff. We have folks that like to comment here and try to see what they can get away with regarding half truths, myths and talking points but have little or no real experience or first hand subject matter expertise.
In this morning’s news:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101104/ap_on_bi_ge/us_aarp_health_plan
I see Bob refuses to defend his remarks… 🙄