Who Cares What They Think?

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From Rauf’s Larry King Live interview, some critics are taking issue with the following statement:

The imam of the mosque conceded Wednesday he would have changed sites if he knew how controversial it would become – but he now believes a switch would anger the radical Muslim world.

“If we don’t do this right, anger will explode in the Muslim world,” said Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf on CNN’s “Larry King Live.”

Before the Koran-burning controversy inflamed the Muslim world and during Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf journey through the Middle East on a State Department-funded trip to relay, of all things, what it’s like being Muslim in the United States (apparently he praised America…of course, this will be dismissed as Islamic deception by the ‘phobes…or the link itself dismissed as liberal propaganda), here are some news reports of “world opinion” to the U.S. national controversy over the building of Cordoba House (this was originally an unpublished draft, from before the Terry Jones controversy).

There are some interesting reactions reported in this NYTimes piece:

For many in Europe, where much more bitter struggles have taken place over bans on facial veils in France and minarets in Switzerland, America’s fight over Park51 seems small fry, essentially a zoning spat in a culture war.

But others, especially in countries with nothing similar to the constitutional separation of church and state, find it puzzling that there is any controversy at all. In most Muslim nations, the state not only determines where mosques are built, but what the clerics inside can say.

The one constant expressed, regardless of geography, is that even though many in the United States have framed the future of the community center as a pivotal referendum on the core issues of religion, tolerance and free speech, those outside its borders see the debate as a confirmation of their pre-existing feelings about the country, whether good or bad.

“America hates Islam,” said Mohaimen Jabar, the owner of a clothes shop in Baghdad, Iraq.

“If America loved us, it would help the Palestinians and stop the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq,” he said. “It would stop Iran and Israel from distorting the image of Islam.”

Interestingly, leaders in Iran, Afghanistan and even occasionally prickly rivals like China and Russia — both of which have their own tensions in some of their heavily Muslim regions — have refrained from making much of the Park51 debate.

China’s state-run news media has used the story to elaborate on the need for a secular state strong enough to police extremism, a matter near and dear to its own ideology.

~~~

Far more common, however, was a sort of shrug of the shoulders from clerics and observers accustomed to far more unpleasant debates. While extremists have presented the controversy as proof of American hostility toward Islam, some religious leaders have taken quite a different stance, arguing against placing the center close to ground zero.

Dalil Boubakeur, head of the Grande Mosquée of Paris and one of the most senior Islamic clerics in France, told France-Soir: “There are symbolic places that awaken memories whether you mean to or not. And it isn’t good to awaken memories.”

A senior cleric at Egypt’s Al Azhar, the closest equivalent in the Sunni Islamic world to the Vatican, said that building at the proposed location sounded like bad judgment on the part of American Muslims.

“It will create a permanent link between Islam and 9/11,” said Abdel Moety Bayoumi, a member of the Islamic Research Institute at Al Azhar. “Why should we put ourselves and Islam in a position of blame?”

That is not to say that the language in the United States has not agitated some observers, like Aziz Tarek, who wrote on the Saudi Web site Watan that America was in the grip of “intolerance and racism.”

He referred to Newt Gingrich’s widely reported statement that there should not be a new mosque in Lower Manhattan until Saudi Arabia allows construction of churches or synagogues.

“How can they compare building a mosque in N.Y. with building whatever in Mecca?” Mr. Tarek wrote. “I thought they viewed themselves better than that country of Saudi Arabia with its many human rights violations, as they love to put it.”

One Cambridge University researcher, writing in the Palestinian daily Al Ayyam, said Muslims could win their case for a center near ground zero in a court of law, only to end up losing in the court of public opinion.

“Provoking the other side will eventually create public opinion that will undermine the very laws that the Muslims evoke today,” wrote the researcher, Khaled al-Haroub, adding that many Muslim states do not tolerate Christian or Jewish houses of worship: “We keep increasing our religious demands vis-à-vis the West, while refusing to meet even a few of the demands made by religious minorities living among us.”

Paradoxically, the public reaction has not been heated in Lebanon, a country with 18 recognized religious sects where Muslims and Christians have a long history of occasionally violent coexistence.

If the mosque were built, many Lebanese commentators said, it would increase the influence of the ideal of the secular state. Many Lebanese, however, seemed more interested that Miss U.S.A., Rima Fakih, a Lebanese-American, had suggested that Park51 seek another location, than in the debate itself.

“Let’s be honest, it is kind of weird to build it there,” said Samer Ghandour, 33. “But the U.S. is also incredibly polarized and does not tolerate Islam.”

Mahmoud Haddad, a history professor at the University of Balamand in Lebanon, said that “the Muslim community should take the high moral and political ground” and agree to move the center, even though it has every right to build near ground zero.

“They should show they are more concerned about the general good of all Americans,” said Mr. Haddad, who studied and taught in the United States for two decades. “American society refuses to accept Muslims, even of the Westernized type, and consider them as a potential risk at best.”

What strikes me in this article is the diversity of opinion and thoughts by Muslims quoted. Like the practice of Islam itself, there is no “one opinion fits all” amongst Islamic practitioners.

Marc Lynch’s piece is more dismal in pointing out how the Muslim world may be negatively affected.

He rightly points out that for anti-American extremists and jihadis, their reaction probably amounts to little more than a shrug of the shoulders. But for those in the moderate mainstream, how does it affect them?

The impact is likely to be felt not so much on extremists, whose views about America are rather fixed, but on the vast middle ground, the Arab and Muslim mainstream which both the Bush and Obama administrations have recognized as crucial both for defeating al-Qaeda and for achieving broad American national interests. And that mainstream, not the extremists themselves, is where our attention needs to be focused.

Lynch goes on to provide a selection of what he considers representative of Arab columnists:

* Jamil al-Nimri, a Jordanian liberal writing for al-Ghad, who writes that the backlash against the mosque has unleashed a wave of bigotry and hate, at the expense of the intended message of an enlightened and tolerant Islam.
* Mohammed al-Hammadi, an Emirati writer for al-Ittihad, who describes the mosque as a moment for America to choose whether it truly believes in freedom.
* Abd al-Haq Azouzi, a Moroccan writing for al-Ittihad, who reverses the familiar question to ask “why do they hate us?,” and warns that those cynically manufacturing the issue for political benefit are unleashing an uncontrollable wave of hatred.
* Abdullah al-Shayji, a Kuwaiti writing for al-Ittihad, who sees the mosque battle as a fundamental test of the place of Muslims in America and fears rising Islamophobia.
* Ragheda Dergham, writing in al-Hayat, warns that the campaign against the mosque threatens Islamic moderation.
* Manar al-Shourbji, in Egypt’s al-Masry al-Youm, reflects that the campaign against the mosque demonstrates that the good intentions of the mosque’s founders were not enough in the face of rising anti-Islam extremism in America.

And this is just from the last few days. The most positive spin on the mosque crisis is actually that it’s all politics.

~~~

the courageous remarks of figures such as Michael Bloomberg have also received prominent coverage — something which gives moderate figures something to grasp onto when arguing against the extremists. And that’s what they need, both for their own sake and for ours.

Meanwhile, the mosque has barely registered on the major jihadist forums which I frequent — yesterday, on the leading al-Shamoukh forum, it was not mentioned in the headline of a single one of the first ten pages of posts (more than 500 in all). There have been a few threads, as Evan Kohlmann has claimed, but it’s a fairly minor theme within the forum debates (“Burn a Quran Day” has actually had more traction than the NY mosque thus far, actually). Certainly no triumphalism about how they’ll soon have a monument to victory, as you hear so often out there on the American lunatic fringe. I have no doubt that al-Qaeda and like-minded extremists will eventually use the anti-mosque movement in their propaganda, since it so perfectly fits their narrative of a West at war with Islam — the very narrative which both the Bush administration and the Obama administration worked so hard to combat over the last few years. I suspect that the participants in the forums aren’t talking about it much is that it simply confirms what they already believe about America. They’ll use it, but don’t see much to argue about.

That’s the opposite of the Arab mainstream, which is vigorously arguing about what it means for the future of America’s relationship with Muslims — both in America and in the world. Where the anti-mosque movement and escalating anti-Islam rhetoric is really resonating is with the Arab mainstream

~~~

The mosque issue has been covered heavily on Arab satellite TV stations such as al-Jazeera, and the images of angry Americans chanting slogans and waving signs against Islam have resonated much like the images of angry Arabs burning American flags and denouncing U.S. policy did with American viewers after 9/11. The recent public opinion surveys showing widespread hostility towards Islam among Americans have also gotten a lot of attention.

~~~

by fueling the narrative of a clash of civilizations and an inevitable war between Islam and the West, this unfortunate trend is empowering extremists on all sides and weakening moderates. That’s exactly the dynamic which I warned about here and in my recent Foreign Affairs article, and it’s one which counter-terrorism professionals and public diplomacy specialists alike understand needs to be broken before it’s too late.

And now we have protests going on throughout the world by those thin-skinned and in perpetual rage predictably shouting “Death to America!”, “Death to President Obama!”, who can’t wrap their minds around the fact that the president can’t simply violate the Pastor’s Constitutional rights, nor that the Pastor and his vast congregation of 30 does not represent the consensus voice of America:

Terry has a very very small following and in the grand scheme of things is completely irrelevant, but now it seems that the Muslim world is lumping and stereotyping all Americans together under the actions of one man, leaving us all “at risk,” and characterizing all Americans as Muslim hating bigots.

And of course, Islamic Rage Boys in turn become the poster face/voice for Islam, even though the protesters themselves do not speak for the whole of Islam.

From Rauf’s interview with Soledad O’Brien:

the battle front is not between Muslims and non-Muslims. The real battle front is between moderates on all sides of all the faith traditions and the radicals on all sides. The radicals actually feed off each other. And in some kind of existential way, need each other. And the more that the radicals are able to control the discourse on one side, it strengthens the radicals on the other side and vice versa. We have to turn this around.

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The imam of the mosque conceded Wednesday he would have changed sites if he knew how controversial it would become – but he now believes a switch would anger the radical Muslim world.

Didn’t realize, I mean really.. let me blow meccas holiest building up then 9 years later put a HUGE catholic church nextdoor, yea like i’m not getting tortured and shot..

Better yet, forgo the bombing of mecca… How bout this I just build a church near it… or just wear a yamika, ill be lucky to live out the day.

As to fearing the radical Muslim world, i think its time we stop caring. Let them get out of control. America has been holding itself at bay due to its liberal sense-abilities. I say let them give us a reason to take the gloves of again. We proved to the world time and time again that we are the bloodiest ppl to have ever graced modern society. We wiped out 2 major japanese cities, we can easily turn a dessert to glass.

You’d think 2 crusades would’a wised them up.

“If we don’t do this right, anger will explode in the Muslim world,” said Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf on CNN’s “Larry King Live.”

Stupid shit has consequences.

What strikes me in this article is the diversity of opinion and thoughts by Muslims quoted. Like the practice of Islam itself, there is no “one opinion fits all” amongst Islamic practitioners.

There is no “Islam.”

There are lots of Islams.

There’s never a moderate when you need one.

But others, especially in countries with nothing similar to the constitutional separation of church and state, find it puzzling that there is any controversy at all. In most Muslim nations, the state not only determines where mosques are built, but what the clerics inside can say.

Again- Islam is the state. The attempt to broaden Islam is the attempt to broaden the state of Islam as well. And it’s no surprise that they wonder why we are opposed.

That Ground Zero mosque represents not just Islam as religion, but Islam as government.

Gotta say that I’m really tired of the ‘most peaceful religion’ on the planet making threats – be they overt or covert. And, I’m really tired of all the PC crap that lets them get away with it!

Mark me down as REALLY DAMN TIRED! Sure wish we had someone in the WH with cajones!!! Maybe in 2012 we’ll get our wish.

THE IMAN HAS to choose which side he is,
ON the ANGRY side of AMERICANS or the ANGRY side of RADICALs MUSLIMS including the others,
HIS time has come to side up.
THAT”S the AMERICANS way.
IS he AMERICAN OR MUSLIM?. HE cannot be both as far as ALLEGEANCE to the CONSTITUTION
THE AMERICANS SPILLED THEIR BLOOD and DIED for that OATH to the CONSTITUTION,
WHAT does the IMAN has to do to prove it?

In the words of my husband, as we heard this statement, “If we don’t do this right, anger will explode in the Muslim world,”
Screw You!

the battle front is not between Muslims and non-Muslims. The real battle front is between moderates on all sides of all the faith traditions and the radicals on all sides.

And if America disagrees the Muslim world will explode with anger.

How many of our rights do we have to forfeit to keep the Muslim world from exploding with anger?

I am proud to be a NYer and an American, where Freedom lies in the foundation our forefathers set in the Constitution, no matter our race, gender, or religious faith. We must continue to uphold what was fought and toiled for, so that those who aim to bring us down never prevail.

Comment #4 – Sarah Palin. She can man-up better than obama, and still be a classy lady. Go Sarah!!

Well bring it ON, Imam!! There are 150 million armed Americans in the nation. We’ll be happy to have you begin the war.

217 gop and 218 dem for the house?
COME ON we can do BETTER than that, LET’S move a few more notch.

Imam Rauf followed the pattern set by Imam Ahmed Akkari who was not satisfied by the non-reaction to the Danish cartoons for the 1st three months after they were published.
The newspaper article in the Jyllands-Posten had already been copied in an Egyptian daily but nothing happened.

Truly the vast majority of people in Islam really only want to live quietly in peace.

Charismatic imams in both the Danish cartoon case and the GZ mosque case have different ideas.

Both men went on tour of the Middle East.

Although we don’t exactly know what Rauf said to the people, he came back home amidst riotous demonstrations in places where the GZ mosque was unheard of before his visit.

In Akkair’s case, he found those 12 cartoons were not rousing the umma enough.
So he had a friend create three more cartoons.
Nasty ones.
Mohammad being mounted by a dog while in prayer.
Mohammad ”exited” about his child-bride, Aisha.
Mohammad as a pig calling the faithful to prayer.

Riots ensued.
But only after these lies were mixed in with the real Danish cartoons.

And now we are being threatened, not by a koran-burning minister, no, he has called that off.
He points out the 100+ death threats he has already got prove his point that mere SPEECH is enough and no action is required.
No, the imam Rauf is threatening us.

Really, do you believe him that all will be right between Islam and the infidel nation of the USA if we ”let” him build his mosque?

Because, if you do, you really are a fool.

@ilovebeeswarzone:

Iman is a lovely lady who is married to David Bowie. I believe you mean the Imam, or religious leader of Islamic faith.
And it is just as possible to be American and Muslim as it is to be American and Christian. It is even possible to be American and entirely ignorant of our constitution or the beliefs of our founders as you have so aptly proved.

>>How many of our rights do we have to forfeit to keep the Muslim world from exploding with anger?>>

Well…we _sure_ better not capture OBL.

Laurel: thank you for the correction. YOU dont have to be so ARROGANT to prove your point,
I am sure that you dont need to have an adjective to the name AMERICAN to give
the OATH to protect the CONSTITUTION OF THIS REPUBLIC,
I aggree to my ignorance to many things,
I also think that YoU should too.
I like DAVID BOWIE

And when they’re “angry” they do what … shout “Death to America” and behead people?

Well, we wouldn’t want that.

the Iman says they want to build bridges::
BRIDGES TO ISLAM
The chasm between Islam and Jahiliyyah* is great, and a bridge is not to be built across it so that the people on the two sides may mix with each other, but only so that the people of Jahiliyyah may come over to Islam. Sayyid Qutb, Milestones, 263.

@ilovebeeswarzone:

I will gladly agree to your ignorance of many things….and I also enjoy David Bowie.

LAUREL: hi, JUST when I was leaving, BUT I cannot let you get away with this one,
YOU did not mention your own IGNORANCE, . It’s okay I’ll forgive .
what is he to you?

@Laurel:

Is there a particular reason why you feel it necessary to insult other posters here?

Is it normal for you to purposely scatter crumbs on the carpet when you enter the home of someone else for a visit?

If you knew half of what you think you know then you would know that Ms. Bees is NOT an American. She is, in fact, a Canadian that we are proud to have participate with us here.

Also, if you were even slightly aware of the audience that you were addressing you would know that English is not the first language of Ms. Bees. She has, in her months here, progressed dramatically in her written English abilities even though, at times, she might still make an error or two.

Did you take the time to even consider that her use of an “n” instead of an “m” may have been a simple typographical error? Probably not.

The simple fact that you entered this site and, in your very first post, displayed such a level of misinformed haughtiness speaks volumes about you and not in a good way.

AYE CHIHUAHUA: nice of you, you brought a tear or 2 or more in my eyes. bye

Wordsmith (the author of this article):

I think it’s wonderful that you’re trying to bring a temperate tone to the discussion.

But I believe you misunderstand the problem.

First: Yes, there are moderate, wonderful, generous, peace-loving Muslims. Delightful people, good Americans. They believe, they TRULY BELIEVE, that Islam is a religion of peace and harmony.

If only that were what the Islamic Holy Scriptures say.

But —
The Quran is the perfect, eternal, immutable word of God. It stands as-is, forever. To change one word of it is to place human hubris above God’s Perfect Plan. (And “islam” is defined as “submission {to the will of God}”.) So, even when people find parts of the Quran “problematic”, they still must accept it. Even prophet Mohammed had to urge some of his peace-loving followers to fight for The Cause of Allah: “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.” Those other, often-quoted verses such as “slay the Infidel wherever you may find him”, and “O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends”, etc, are also right there in the Quran, and are therefore God’s literal words, applicable for all time.

So, again, yes, there are wonderful Muslims who would make great neighbors; who would be an asset to any community. And then there is: ISLAM. Islam is not limited by politically-correct thought. Islam is not limited by 21st-century mores. Islam is not constrained by Western Civilization’s understanding of the relationship between Individual and State. Islam rejects any idea of separation of religion and governance. Islam has a single focus: to overcome “The Other” and to dominate all human thought and activity — to make Islam the one universal belief system. ISLAM EXISTS TO SPREAD ISLAM; and it’s done a remarkably effective job over the last 14 centuries. As the above “fighting is prescribed” quote shows, although peaceful, easygoing Muslims may exist, THEY DO NOT ALTER THE PURPOSE OR THE COURSE OF ISLAM. There have been moderate, tolerant, peaceful Muslims throughout history, and still history records the slaughter of hundreds-of-millions of Unbelievers as Islam has spread through the Middle East, across Southeast Asia, and down through Africa. (And, as far as the peaceful, tolerant Muslims go, it has happened –and will keep happening– that their children, or grandchildren, yearn to return to their Islamic roots and discover the “dark side” of Islam, and decide that jihad is the best way to honor their God.)

Muslims — individual people — aren’t the problem. Whether they’re peaceful or hostile, PEOPLE can be dealt with.

But the unwavering intent of ISLAM — well, THAT’s where the problem is. It’s the Absolute Word of God. It is what it is; what it has always been. And it WILL BE what it always has been. Because it’s Perfect. Forever.

rumcrook, I cant see you now but I did and it is very well done and so tragic, thank you,
and you’r a magicien, bye

Bees: Sanctimonious bull crap artists are a dime a dozen; their arrogance is only exceeded by their insecurity and thus explains the need to belittle others, while trying to assert an ineffectual authority.

You possess a truly unique method of quantifying complex concepts and explaining them with extraordinary insight, while using a second language. This ability, at times, leaves us in awe of your comprehension and analytical method.

Spanish is my second language and I would never even consider writing on a Spanish political blog. Yet, you have earned the respect of the regulars, congratulations!

As someone who knows many Canadians, I can say with confidence that you understand the American political system better than 98% of our fellow Canadians, again congratulations!

Have you had time to study the apostrophe? Once you learn the apostrophe, most writing will become extremely funny as you pick apart the ‘bones’.

The grammar book, Eats, Shoots, and Leaves, by Lynn Truss, is hilarious and will be a great reference. I like to buy used books, sometimes I must wait for a particular book, but it seems nice to give an older book a new life.

@Aye Chihuahua:

The word was written incorrectly twice so I doubt that it was a typographical error. I was making what I considered to be a humorous comment about the mistake.

I was most concerned by Ms. Bees idea that a person could not be both a faithful Muslim and a faithful American simultaneously. The Imam does not have to choose between his religion and his allegiance to the constitution, the two are not in conflict.

I will confess to ignorance of many things as well. Not least your nationality. I was being a bit playful, I apologize if I offended. We’ll always have David Bowie.

Wordsmith
26

Some of these peaceful Muslims are the way they are because of their reading of the Koran; not in spite of. Not because they are ignorant of what’s in their book, but because they have a different (and yes, sometimes pc-ified, imo) interpretive reading of the Koran, Mohammed, and Islamic history.

So true.

I well remember the imam who taught us Arabic regards this point, wordsmith.
He was livid that any person, other than a ulema or an imam, spin any personal take on Islam and their Koran, Hadith and Sura.
Even trying to understand the Koran in any other language than its original was anathema to him.

He said it was over-reaching and not to be tolerated.

He pointed out over and over that 90% of all Muslim on earth could not understand the Arabic used in their Korans. (Even if they memorized the verses in Arabic.)

They, not just we infidels in the class, needed a teacher to tell them what meant what.

I’ve known many Muslims before and after 9-11-01.

But looking back, and taking into account that Arabic teacher’s words makes me realize all of my favorite Muslims were, in actuality, apostates according to imams like our Arabic teacher.

They, like you pointed out, read their Koran in a language they could understand and interpreted it to their own liking.

Many times since 9-11-01 I’ve asked Muslims of this sort why no one has used Koranic verses to overturn the masses who riot and follow these firebrand leaders.
I always get the same answer….and A_Nonny_Mouse touched on it: the Koran backs up the firebrands better than the peacemakers.

A Muslim woman put her name and face on an article the other day about how Islam needs to tear out a few pages in their Koran.
Good for her!

LAUREL, nice of you, but we will have to find another game to play with,
bye

SKOOKUM: thank you, and I’ll watch my APOSTROPHE ! is that it?, I promise too.
I like that when I see “all for one, and ONE for all” SPECIALY! when the “one” is” me”;
I fear no evil, not at FA. bye

Wordsmith #26

I guess what I was trying to say is: The Quran includes dual views: “There is no compulsion in religion” as well as “Slay the Unbelievers”. The peaceful Muslims choose the first verse. The warlike Muslims choose the second.

BOTH ARE CORRECT, because both are in the Book — the Absolute Word of God.

Depending on what the local imam preaches, a congregation may be led one way or the other. Yet the duality still exists — and the “other view” is still fully authorized by the Book.

The peaceful ones can’t point to the place in the Quran where the violent views are refuted. The peaceful ones say “We’re not in Dar-al-Harb (we’re not at war)”; the violent ones say “Yes we are.” The peaceful ones say “Mohammed revealed Allah’s verse that there is no compulsion in religion”; the violent ones say, “Yes but that was abrogated by the later verse to slay the infidels.” There is opinion plus scripture on the one side, and opinion plus scripture on the other side; and there is no chief arbiter to say “THIS is un-Islamic and I will cut out from the ummah anyone who takes such-and-such action.”

The world has seen 1400 years of schizoid Islam; at most one can say that sometimes Islam pauses before reaching out and trying to conquer-and-expand again. Islam is a parasitic culture which exists to devour all other cultures; the existence of moderate Muslims who are content with the status quo does NOT restrain wild-eyed Muslim zealots eager to restore Islam’s honor by doing WHATEVER IT TAKES to establish a worldwide Caliphate and thus, “the supremacy of Islam” over all mankind — just as the Book foretells).

The bottom line is that Islam (the culture-as-a-whole, despite its many rational, compassionate and peaceful followers) has been, is, and will remain, hostile to every other form of human organization on earth as long as the Book and its duality still exists.

And back to the beginning of the conundrum – the Book can’t be changed.

So. What do we do?

yeah ilovebeeswarzone im quite the magician.

magicians allways have helpers, and so does ruaf.

but in the end the helpers have to ignore all of ruafs glaring flaws in his magic trick,

in order to keep believing in him.

and they have to keep trying to distract us from his other hand with ever more aggressive focus on western culture as the bad guy, and why anyone would want to examine him more closely.

esta majico, pero yo tengo ayuda de mi amigo especialadad 🙄

rumcrook: hi, thank you SR. bye

plainjane31: hi, that is a good reference to learn about the beleivers of this citation,
IT mean to me” come to me and I will teach you , but I have no interest to go to you and learn”
THAT remind of the IMAM speach, when he explain his project at the beginning.
thank you, bye

@Nan G: #12 The way I understand it, the countries that people were killed because of the cartoon, never published the pictures.

#20 Aye Chihuahua
I am guessing Bees is from Quebec. For those who might not know it, the main language in Quebec is French. At one time a lot of people in Quebec wanted to secede from Canada unless French was declared the national language. English won out. Think about that! Their NATIONAL LANGUAGE in Canada is English, but we don’t have a national language, and we were all English at the beginning of the USA.

#22 A_Nonny_Mouse
Even in the Bible it says something about if one thing is proven wrong, then all things are wrong.

#28 Nan G
A Muslim woman put her name and face on an article the other day about how Islam needs to tear out a few pages in their Koran.
Good for her!

As long as the Koran teaches that Muslims MUST convert or kill and that those who leave the religion MUST be killed, it is a terrorist organization created to take over the world. I am sure there are many Muslims who do not believe this way, but the money they give still goes to terrorists.

#30 Bees
I like that when I see “all for one, and ONE for all”

Obama has changed that saying. The OFFICIAL saying is now, “All for one, and I’m The One.”

SMORGASBORD: hi, I must say that they lost at 49 to 50, and not by english people but IMMIGRANT who had acquire the right to vote,and could barely speak one english sentence,those immigrants where loaded In QUEBEC at those times, and the QUEBEC LEADERS wanted to have the power to choose who was coming to immigrate and take those who where compatible in their need and society; NOW after the fact, I see they had a smart IDEA,we just have to look around the WORLD
to notice the radical change that continue to deterriorate. JUST like here, and nobody seems to know how to stop the now OVERWELMING tidal wave. bye

@ilovebeeswarzone: #38 We know how you feel. We have the same tidal wave. We know how to stop it if the politicians would just get out of the way.

SMORGASBORD: hi, I dont understand, why those in power positions dont have a vision of their actions or non actions affecting the near future of the country, specialy when the doubt
of the action or non action that doubt is so obvious to disrupt the tranquility of the citizens already rooted in with some previous generations, they should have a say with who get to become their neighbords in the future. bye