Rahmat Gul/Associated Press
The fire became lit even before the first match was ever struck; It’s too late for the media to turn off the gas pump once they fueled the story. Irregardless of what Terry Jones plans to do tomorrow, the Islamists who are in a perpetual state of rage are already lit up. It doesn’t matter that the President, State Department officials, Petraeus and other U.S. military leaders, politicians like Sarah Palin, or media talking heads say or do, the damage is done. Americans are all lumped together. It doesn’t matter to Islamic Rage Boy that many of the Muslim protesters around the world are joined in chorus by world leaders and many Americans in condemning the Pastor and his small congregation.
And for fans of Pastor Jones and wannabe copycats who salivate over media coverage of the “publicity stunt”, there are already copycat burners threatening to take up the torch. The State Department has issued travel warnings. The FBI is paying attention. INTERPOL is concerned. One person has already been killed, others wounded. Insurgents who are fighting our troops are taking advantage of this propaganda bonanza:
Insurgents have reportedly handed out pamphlets in some areas of Afghanistan comparing the Quran burning to Draw Muhammad Day earlier this year, and a Pakistani Taliban commander in South Waziristan said his group is telling people the planned Quran burning is on par with drone strikes (ABC, Newsweek). Thousands of Afghans hurled rocks at a small NATO base in the northeastern province of Badakhshan in protest, and according to the head of UNAMA Staffan de Mistura the country-wide protests could delay Afghan parliamentary elections, scheduled for September 18 (AFP, AP, Reuters, Tolo).
As Old Trooper said, “Stupid shit has consequences“.
And as far as those who are being dismissive of Petraeus, saying the troops are already in danger just by being in theater, or because of RoE, you’re not making their job any easier or safer by supporting the Pastor.
Here are a couple of comments by way of BlackFive:
“So the Jackass in Florida is all safe and sound in his nice warm home not realizing the shit storm he stirred up. Well let me enlighten you; simple logistics patrol turn into pote…ntially deadly situation. our Patrol encountered a mob of angry protesters of about 600 yes 600, who blocked the only passible MSR on our route.
People threw massive rocks at the vehicles targeting the gunners, weapon systems and other necessary equipment. Our lives were truly endangered at that time. Not ONE single soldier within our patrol fired a single round from his weapon, even though their lives were in jeaopordy. I’ m proud of my men by showing tremendous restrait in such a hostile environment.
So Mr.Preacher man I have several words for you, next time you want to experss you opinions do us all a favor and keep them to yourself. The rights you have are given to you because of the men over here putting their lives on the line each and everyday. I hope one day I get to meet you and show you my true feelings toward you. Thanks Jackass!!!!”
“Burning the Koran is going to fuck us all up over here. REALLY bad idea. Unless what you’re trying to do is cause a mess. Best thing you can do for us is snipe the first bastard who tries to light one and be prepared to keep shooting them until the inbreds get the idea of cause and effect. Otherwise, be prepared for some serious shit that we over here seriously don’t need. Not kidding.
And yes, the Afghans are aware and waiting to see what happens. No, they are not happy. Yes, it does matter. No, I’m not kidding and I’ve not gone native. All humor aside, it is important and not a single person is going to do anything to stop those mindless fucks from costing lives. My honest appraisal is that it will cost lives and turn people who take this very seriously against us. Needlessly.”
Yes, Islam has a rage problem. Or, at most, a significant minority of its populace does. This was predictable.
Of what good is gained from intentionally provoking the anger, though?
Some just enjoy throwing gasoline onto fires; kicking over anthills and stirring a hornet’s nest; and some like the attention and the publicity.
But what of the consequences?
A former fetus, the “wordsmith from nantucket” was born in Phoenix, Arizona in 1968. Adopted at birth, wordsmith grew up a military brat. He achieved his B.A. in English from the University of California, Los Angeles (graduating in the top 97% of his class), where he also competed rings for the UCLA mens gymnastics team. The events of 9/11 woke him from his political slumber and malaise. Currently a personal trainer and gymnastics coach.
The wordsmith has never been to Nantucket.
@ Gregory_Dittman, #45:
I was momentarily wondering if a quote from Conan the Barbarian might be coming up… 😯
BRIDGES TO ISLAM
The chasm between Islam and Jahiliyyah* is great, and a bridge is not to be built across it so that the people on the two sides may mix with each other, but only so that the people of Jahiliyyah may come over to Islam. Sayyid Qutb, Milestones, 263.
I see the points from BlackFive, but where we we draw the line on ceding our free speech? Why is only Islam that can be offended by things and why is ok for them to offend us.
I told someone else, we should through some Bibles and Toras into the fire and the group that makes the loudest squawk gets kicked out.
I am afraid that the only long term solution to the Crazy Islamist is to nuke them back to 700AD and cut off all their funds. They will not stop trying to infiltrate and take over the US by subversion until they are successful, there is no chance in domesticating them leaving extermination or castration but we have allowed them to spread out so both of those are impossible now.
When I was young, I liked kicking the ant hill and then lighting them with gas when they came running out… just thinking aloud.
@Mtat 49
And just WHY are you not worried about it????
Because people like ME have kept that worldview OVER THERE.
Fear mongering??? Please go and READ the F’n Koran. Then go look at parts of Europe…. or say… Turkey? Which was a Christian Country right up until they were CONQUERED? Been to Jersulum??? I have….
If you are not in Fear of their Worldview… and how they wish YOU to live… I can’t help you…
Although… I will protect those like you… because I WILL not allow my DAUGHTER to be forced to live that way…
Rmow13o… since you seem to deliberately misspell my name time after time, I guess I’ll return the favor… LOL I mean, guy, it’s only four letters. Typing problem perhaps? Or trying to drive home your disrespect for someone who has a differing opinion?
You assume – erroneously, I might add – that I do not “worry” about the global Islamic jihad movements. Rather absurd considering my author post history here, and on my previous blogs. That aside, you and I “worry” about two different things. I worry about jihad and their attacks. You worry about the very presence of Muslims, and some irrational notion that they are attempting to recreate oppression they escape by coming here in the US. The majority of you pepper this with history from the 11th to 13th centuries, assuming that humanity and societies never evolve. Your 300-500BC circa analogies of Turkey have little bearing on the US, our laws and current society. Any attempt to reverse Constitutional rights to conform to the distorted version of Shariah that OBL calls his own would fail. Therefore the jihad movements would have to attempt to seize this country via rebellion/war… and they’d lose big time.
Instead, while you chase imaginary jihad invasions from every Muslim present in the country, our population prefers to be lulled into socialism and promises of not-really-free government services. Your focus and emphasis is, as I will say yet another time, misplaced and misdirected.
No one will ever force me into a burqa since I’m armed, and one of us would die in their attempts.
And one more thing… stop insulting me as some imbecile by telling me to “read the Qu’ran”. I have read more than a goodly portion of it. A searchable version remains on my desktop as well as nine years of other links about Islam, jihad and Qu’ran that have built up into a monster database that’s out of control.
However… as Wordsmith has often noted… it’s placement in many versions is not necessarily chronological. And such a text of doctrine can be misinterpreted the same way a non believer reading the Old and New Testatments will do as they sort their own translations to the various Jewish and Christian demoninations created from the same.
Get real.. you highlight a few excerpts and texts, and you’re an expert?
Nor do I consider myself the Qu’ran expert you apparently do. Frankly, I’ll believe Jasser over you as an expert, and as he has said:
Catch those emphasized phrases? Same Qu’ran, different interpretations… just as many Christrian demoninations.
Lastly, rest assured you have no need to “protect those like me”, Rm13oeo. I can not only protect myself, but have ample personal friends and patriots with clear thinking minds as my friends. What I really want to know is – since you seem hell bent on chasing boogiemen in an entire faith population while ignoring the very real boogiemen in our Oval Office and Congress – just how do I protect my country against those like you? You’re not only off, MIA and chasing frisbees while the owners in the White House are moving your dog house, but you’re making it difficult for those dodging the *REAL* bullets with your rhetoric. You do our military no favors. Worse yet, you simply don’t want to hear that from them since it gets in the way of your phobia.
Irregardless of what Terry Jones… “Irregardless” is not a proper word. Its use detracts an otherwise very good post. “Regardless” is the appropriate word for that sentence.
Does it matter in the big scheme of things? No. But I used “irregardless” for years until a Lt Colonel corrected me during a briefing I was giving. That was embarrassing and it did hurt. But I realized soon after that he had done me a favor. He stopped me from looking an uneducated fool from that day on.
So, in the same spirit I’m passing that piece of advice onto you. You’ll be a better writer and speaker now.
You’re welcome.
Dangerous Dan the Grammar Man
@Skook #41:
We would never have even heard of Jones if it hadn’t been for the left-wing media stirring up this tempest in a teapot to cause distraction ahead of the November elections. There is no low they will not stoop to in their efforts to depict all conservatives as lunatics, and they do not care about the ramifications this may present to our soldiers and other Americans serving abroad. If anyone will have blood on their hands it will be the MSM — and it won’t be the first time.
@ Toothfairy, #56: “We would never have even heard of Jones if it hadn’t been for the left-wing media stirring up this tempest in a teapot to cause distraction ahead of the November elections.”
Of course, we might also ask what media coverage has worked people like Pastor Jones up into a state. Working up Islamophobia and playing on irrational fears and anger is part of somebody else’s election strategy. Just like working up fear of undocumented immigrants.
Dangerous Dan the Grammar Man, please feel free to correct my grammar (almost an archaic word) at any time, without remorse. I actually try to improve my grammar and vocabulary all the time, but I am worried that I might have some deeply ingrained patterns from the past that I am not aware of. Some mistakes like ending a sentence with a preposition are fun and can be called a matter of style. Irregardless is like trying to double up on the essence of a word and is funny when you think about it being one of the more common errors. We are a group of amateurs and we often make mistakes; actually there is rarely a post without an error of some type. I cringe while looking at some of my old posts; hopefully, that means I am improving and not just being overly critical. 😉
Tooth: You illustrate an excellent point.
The Socialists or Obamaviks have much to gain by diverting our attention from their desultory performance and multiple failures. If they can splinter us into separate groups, they stand a better chance of surviving this November. Causing the deaths of American servicemen is only collateral damage to a Socialist, after all, very few of those coffins coming back contain Democrats.
Ahh….. I was wondering whose fault this all was. Thank you, Skookum, for pointing out the obvious fact that it’s Obama’s. But, boy, he obviously ain’t very bright to have orchestrated this clusterf*ck, considering any time he’s forced into a position of attacking Islamaphobia, it only reinforces certain “theories” endlessly propagated by his enemies, such as: he’s a secret Muslim; or (at the very least), he’s sympathetic to terrorists who happen to be Muslims; or, he’s a weak apologist soft on the War on Terror. So, yes, if one were to look at this sorry mess without a perpetual ax to grind, one might have a hard time finding a silver lining for Obama, but I’m glad you did your homework, threw a few catchphrases together (“Obamaviks”, “Socialists”) and figured it all out for us. All it’s missing is several paragraphs of pedantic regurgitation on the classics before the tacked on Obama smear and it could be anything you’ve ever written for this site. Considering this has nothing to do with politics, and is something most American’s regardless of political affiliation might actually come together on, it would have been interesting to see whether you had an original thought that wasn’t dependent on your hateful Obama crutch. He won’t be around forever, you know. Maybe next time.
Tom are you sure you want to admit that the MSM is a propaganda organ for the Liberals or Progressives or Democrats. For it was the quote from Ms Tooth that I was referring to.
I am flattered that you are familiar with my articles, even if it is only to know your enemy and ridicule the source. Pedantic regurgitation from the classics, I like the phrase, sounds like something you might hear from a university student flexing his vocabulary.
It was the first time for me to use the word Obamavik, I liked it at first, but then it wasn’t catchy enough. I thought it might make people think of Bolsheviks and Mensheviks, but there is a syllable missing in the middle of the word. We must keep trying, you never know when something will catch the imagination of the people or at least enrage Progressives. Of course, I should be working more towards Mao’s regime, since his people seem to hold Premier Mao in such high regard.
So you would like to see Americans unite on this issue, but if you see this as a coalition it is a weak one and where do you propose “we” Conservatives come together on this issue to link hands in solidarity with our Liberal Brethern. Should we praise the Reverend Jones for exercising his First Amendment or condemn the action and ask Mr Obama to stop the madness. Where do you stand, Tom?
Most of us have given Mr Obama the opportunity to perform his magic and unite the country; unfortunately, things are not going that well for us or Mr Obama or maybe you have a different perspective on the health of the country and the economy?
Yes, he wont be around forever and that is something we voters will assure in 2012. There is a warm-up election in a few weeks and we will be flexing our power and asserting ourselves at that time. We Conservatives expect to be joined by most independents and many former Democrats, shall we consider you one of us, the issue at hand is opening up so much of the common ground that Mr Obama has failed to find in his nearly two years as president.
Fill us in Tom, I am only a neophyte in political blogging, you seem to have such a command of the political situation and the written word, please enlighten us on your views and opinions. Are you a young Progressive Ideologue or are you a hard bitten card carrying Socialist who hangs out on Conservative blogs because the fare at Liberal blogs in so inane and boring?
Islam is the only religion that allows members in it that believe in killing to solve disagreements.
Here is my post on that. Truthfully, it is a mistake to give an inch to that group.
http://truthandcommonsense.com/2010/09/10/is-islam-the-breath-holding-blue-faced-petulant-child-standing-in-the-middle-of-the-room-holding-a-bomb-and-an-ak/
@Mata…
Sorry if you are “insulted” by a simple typo… Kinda says you are TRYING to be insulted, much like militant Islam…. I’ll be more carefull in the future when I address you… as you are suddenly like my 7th grade english teacher….
As to reading EVERYTHING you have written on this blog… or others??? Thats a rather intersting meme that I have not come accros on other sites…. sorry… I am not that ANAL as to read everything written on a single blog…. written by a single poster…. I have a LIFE….
But I go back to my main point… which is how, can you as a Western woman… with all the Freedoms the West gives you, wish Any inroad of Sharia law, and the restirctions that it would entail on YOU?
Please point out any country, where Sharia law is enforced, where you would even have the freedom to be having this converasiton with me????
You are an eloquent spokesperson for your beliefes… but having spent time in countries where Sharia IS enforced…. Its interesting to me that ANY Western Woman, would have ANYTHING to do with Islam…
And sorry ahead of time if I mispelled anything…. as that apparently dismiisses any rational thought put behind my opinions…. because apparently, its all packaging…. not substance, which is important….
@RHJunior: You are SO right. Like they needed provocation? This is just an excuse to do what they would be doing anyway.
Upon reflection…
I find it intersting that the people who run this site… take many disagreements with their philosphy or beliefs personaly… even to the point of trying to take things as an insult.
I have been accused of being “stupid”…. I have been accused of being insulting because of a typo….
Heck… I’ve been accused of having “blood on my hands”… because I stood with the founding Fathers on Freedom of Speech….
There is debate… where you can rationaly trade opinion… and there are places where invective rules… I would really hate for this to get the rep as one of those places….
A timely article for this discussion.
First, the Pastor has called off the Koran burning so everyone can stop making things worse by the incestent calling him vile names.
Second we have this as an excellent example of exactly why buring the Koran is not so brilliant an idea, yet, not such a demonic thing either.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Old Friend Challenges Bin Laden
September 10, 2010 – 12:58 PM | by: Amy Kellogg
On the anniversary of the 9-11 terror attacks in the United States, a former associate of Osama bin Laden has written a lengthy open letter to the Al Qaeda leader, highly critical of the organization’s actions, and laying out all the negative repercussions of them, on the entire world, both Muslim and non-Muslim.
Noman Benotman, a former Libyan Islamic Fighting Group commander, who fought in the Afghan war against the Soviets alongside Osama bin Laden, writes to the Al Qaeda number one:
“I write to you as a former comrade-in-arms. We fought together. We were ready to die together. Under the banner of Islam, we came to the aid of fellow Muslims in Afghanistan. To this day, I take pride in having fought against the Soviets and the Communists. We were in the right and no enemy could have stood in our way. This is no longer the case. After our victory, we became a curse for the very people we sought to help.”
Ed Husain, Co-Director of the Quilliam Foundation, a well-known counter-extremism think tank in London, says this letter is highly significant.
“This letter has been written by someone who was once a personal guest of Osama bin Laden. In personal and political terms, this document will trouble bin Laden because the letter asks questions that will embarrass al Qaeda and expose its failures. Will bin Laden respond. Time will tell.”
Benotman argues that bin Laden’s actions have brought disrepute upon Muslims. He sees no benefit to the people of Afghanistan—basically that nothing good has come from its being the training ground for the 9-11 attacks.
Bentoman now lives in London. He and his group never embraced the ethic of global jihad, rather they turned to trying to overthrow the Gaddafi regime, and replace it with an Islamic state. Subsequently, the group renounced violence altogether and has been granted amnesty for that by the Libyan government.
Benotman warned bin Laden in Kandahar in 2000 against using violence and attacks outside Afghanistan. In his letter he points out that Taliban leader Mullah Omar asked Bin Laden on several occasions to stop provoking and inviting American attacks on his country, but that bin Laden ignored him.
Benotman, in his letter, asks, “What has the 11th of September brought to the world except mass killings, occupations, destruction, hatred of Muslims, humiliation of Islam, and a tighter grip on the lives of ordinary Muslims by the authoritarian regimes that control Arab and Muslim states? “
He goes on. “Your actions have harmed millions of innocent Muslims and non-Muslims alike. How is this Islam or jihad? For how much longer will al-Qaeda continue to bring shame on Islam, disrupt ordinary Muslims’ lives, and be the cause of global unrest?”
Many people have asked since September 11, 2001, why there haven’t been more credible voices from the Muslim world speaking out against Al Qaeda. Benotman firmly does that in this letter.
“Muslims across the world have rejected your calls for wrongful jihad and the establishment of your so-called ‘Islamic state’ when they witnessed the form this has taken in Iraq. Even the Palestinians consider your ‘help’ to have had negative repercussions on their cause.”
Finally, Benotman brings consequences of the 9-11 attacks right up to the current moment.
“In New York, your un-Islamic actions have caused hurt, loss, pain and anguish to thousands of innocent people and their families. One consequence is that those Muslims seeking to build a House of God in New York are today being compared to Nazis. And now we hear that on the anniversary of your attack, an American preacher is even planning to burn the Koran in revenge!”
Benotman thinks it is time to engage in a debate with bin Laden himself as military interventions have not stopped Al Qaeda in its tracks. He is calling for Al Qaeda to stop its operations for six months to take a good look at itself, to find out really how the rest of the Muslim world sees it, and to seek counsel and guidance from Islamic scholars. Clearly these words are not going to get Al Qaeda fighters to drop their guns on the spot. But there is no apparent harm in an old friend laying out a whole list of informed arguments to Bin Laden. It’s not clear he is listening. But he has been challenged to answer to someone who once fought with him in the trenches.
Read more: http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/09/10/old-friend-challenges-bin-laden/?test=latestnews#ixzz0zCQhyuAF
@TSgt Ciz: You might be interested in this video, then:
fiat justitia, ruat caelum
let justice be done, even though the heavens fall
Wordsmith,
I have no illusions about Islam, believe me.
They are at a tipping point, much as Christianity was about 1,000 yrs ago ago. There are those who use the religion as a political force and a justification for the most heinous acts. And there are those who have come to realize that that is the road to becoming the opposite of everything they claim to love and aspire to be.
I want very much to be sure we support the side that is equivalent to Martin Luther nailing his letters to the church doors.
I think this is quite likely the 21st century version of Islam’s Martin Luther.
Thank You, Delh for the link to what the founding fathers said about Islam.
I can’t believe that professor just blatanly Lied about what they said.
While we must not let the perpetual rage of extremists influence the excercising of our rights and behavior, there is another side to this.
Yes it is a recruiting tool that endangers our troops and civilians, but also consider what this does to those Muslims who stand with us. Pissing off the people on our side or undermining support for what we are trying to do is just beyond foolish.
Yes he has a right to burn Korans. Should he? Nope. There is no upside in such actions.
Oh and Tom, your hypocrisy and projection are staggering. Leftists like yourself spewed hatred towards Bush for 9 (yes nine) years. Even after he was gone you blamed him for things obama and the other leftists in congress had wrought. You want to talk hate? We saw multiple rallys demanding the murder of Bush and the arrest/execution of him for “war crimes”. Yet you actually come here to spew hatred in defense of your messiah and accuse of us of that which you are guilty. You libs are mentally ill.
Eh, they would look for any reason to act stupid.
I say.. whatever… If they wanna destroy there own country over us burning books, well i wonder what it would take to get them to nuke themselves.
Skookum, I disagreed with your post and now I’m your “enemy”? Not only do you have a thin skin, but your choice of word highlights my suspicion that you’re rather intolerant of those who don’t subscribe to your point of view. It’s interesting that by disagreeing with you I’ve shown myself to be somewhere along the ideological spectrum of a “young Progressive Ideologue” to a “hard bitten card carrying Socialist”. You’re not given me much wiggle room. But it’s an instructive comment, for it betrays your black-and-white world view and your necessary fondness for labeling. Which brings us to Mr. Obama. You like hanging labels on him, don’t you? I pointed out that your essays function as a sustained smear campaign upon the man, and a rather effective one judging by the enthusiastic comments they receive. Do you deny this is your intent? You’re a valuable cog in the right wing attack machine – man up and own it. Is that too base a calling for one with literary ambitions and a fondness for Gibbon? I know you’d probably rather be perceived as a philosopher writing philosophical essays when – Bam! – you’re hit with flashes of insight linking historical events and persons to the present (i.e. Obama), typically in an unflattering, but instructive, light. That’s the more romantic way of looking at it.
Might I inquire though if, in fact, you work the other way around? For example, is it possible you decide the smear first and then reverse-engineer the essay? Let’s say you wanted to hint that Obama is a homosexual. Could you google famous homosexuals throughout history, zero in on leaders; zero in further on decadent leaders; zero in further on decadent leaders who, through their own personal moral failings, took an Empire’s into decline? Let’s say, hypothetically, you arrive at Alexander. You could then write an entire essay on how his immoral personal behavior was his fatal flaw. Can we use this lesson from history in the context of the present? Is there anyone we know who fits this pattern, who comes from a swarthy decadent background, who throws a baseball like a girl?
It’s great stuff, Skookum. I mean that. Driven by and filled with hatred, but when judged by their effectiveness as a tool to leverage and consolidate the biases and suspicions of your readers against the President, your essays have few equals.
Seems silly and purposefully provoking to burn a Quran. But, then…so does painting the virgin Mary out of “dung”, burning bibles, doper jesus t-shirts, or putting a crucifix in urine, gov sanctioned abortions, ….all of which are considered just fine here in America. The difference is…nobody is running around telling (warning) people off such behavior because it might create more right wing Christians, or Christian militia recruits, or jewish militants who’ll kill somebody because of what you did.
But, those within Islam …are to be respected?? and their religion respected? demands followed??? Islam has a problem. And their answer to that problem is that everybody else is responsible for what “they” are…and what they do. Don’t provoke the monster, or he’ll rampage…and you’ll create more monsters.
Here in the US…people seem to revel in our secularism. Stick it in your face. I think its juvenile and disrespectful to to ridicule people’s faith/religion, shun them, force their beliefs underground…but we do it everyday here in America just for good measure and nobody seems to have a problem with it…so long as its the christians and jews we do it to. But not the muslims. No..you can’t disrespect “islam”. You might even get a phone call from the state dept if you do!!!
When are we going to to WAKE UP and stop this shit? “Islam” has problems. I think it’s completely fair to point it out and treat them same as every other religion….. and that includes with contempt, skepticism, and even disdain and ridicule….and not be threatened by them, nor run from their threats. I think THEY need to get over it. Freedom “from” religion.
TOM, you look like YOU fit the pattern you so well describe.
@Dc
Great post. Thank you.
Why Skook, you have a stalker. You must have really cut Tom to the quick at some point. He actually insists on pretending you are guilty of what HE is doing. I have seen multiple psychiatrists explain such behavior on his part.
They call it projection, pathological denial of reality, and displacement.
Tom, look in the mirror and then take your Zyprexa.
@Romeo13, you sure are one of those “dish it out but can’t take it types”, eh? While you’re in the “reflecting” mood, you may to “reflect” on your own approach in commentary before claiming you’re the hapless victim of relentless assault. You can ask any of my siblings, and they’ll confirm that from childhood, I return fire with fire. I generally start out quite civil.
Now let’s put a bit of perspective on my brief interaction with you on this thread, shall we? And the reality is that I have never addressed you directly on anything until you decided to be highly insulting in @your comment #48 as a retort to @my comment #43, addressing Delh and Drjohn. In that single comment you managed to say to me… unsolicited… that:
1: I was ignorant of the Qu’ran
2: You promised I’d be wearing a burqa (because another mosque gets built? or what?)
3: I was a feminist with no courage (hang… I’m not even a feminist, but have ample courage)
4: And that if you were a Muslim, you’d tell me to shut up and don my burqa
5: And, of course, I’m completely wrong… but at least eloquent in my ignorance.
But you’re the victim of insults? Chutzpah… 🙄
Your comment 54 was particularly snide – a combination of generous and insidious, as you offer to reluctantly protect “people like me”, but only because your fear was for your daughter.
Oh yes… you are the picture of civility, Romeo. And always the “victim”.
And while you’re continuing your leaps to assumptions, you’ll notice I gave you a choice as to whether the two times that you addressed me as “maty” and “mtat” was a typo, or just a continuance of your barrage of condescending insults that ensued in your commentary content. You chose to inflate that as some sort of personal attack.
Again, my conversation with you here was unsolicited. I already have a solid foundation on where you stand on all of Islam after the month long debate. You see, unlike you, I tend to either remember, or get to know, the rabbit I’m dealing with. You’ve been around this blog long enough to know that I’m a Constitutional conservative. You’ve also been around long enough to know I’m a well-researched author in my presentations. I have to assume you know *something* about me after being an author for over two years.
Yet you still choose to project your air of superiority over the dumb woman you think you address.
Instead, you come up with talk about rationally trading opinions, while ignoring your own incendiary commentary.
But enough with the personal. You started, now feel wounded to the quick, so I thought I’d walk you back thru the thread with a new perspective. Now I’d prefer conversations not be that way either. But when you bring it on, rest assured I’ll match you.
INRE your specific questions:
If you’ll remember any of my comments previously about Shariah, you’d find that I’ve repeatedly said I’d oppose any form of Shariah courts or councils that have any power to usurp our laws. If they are, like the Jewish councils and our non Muslim arbitration/mediation agreements, issuing judgment within our laws via councils and panels, and the participants choose to accept their rulings willingly, then it’s difficult for me to argue that a Shariah court or arbitration council on civil matters is much different than a Jewish court or arbitration panel,
That said, I would still oppose it… just as the Canadian Muslim women did. And succeeded.
As for countries where there is Shariah law enforced in some form, and conversations with someone like you, you might try considering Pakistan, Kuwait, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, even the UK. Women in these countries not only are not mandated into only wearing burqas, they have had certainly expressed themselves. Even during the Iran election riots, many voices that were getting thru to the outside world thru Tweets/FB and blogs were women… until the Iranian government started shutting down outside communication indiscriminately.
Add to that, you are unfamiliar with Riverbend… a female Iraqi Muslim blogger who’s voice became famous internationally during the heat of the fight. There’s still Muslim women blogs around today… one dedicated to communicating about women in Islam called http://www.themuslimwoman.org. Here’s an interesting bit about Miss Indonesia Universe 2006, and how more and more Muslim women are ordering bikinis online.
Even Daniel Pipes had an article on the increase of Muslim women in beauty contests. Tho he chose to focus on their wins being affirmative action in intent. The current Miss USA, Rima Fakih from Michigan, is a Muslim woman. Here’s another laugh… she won Detroit’s Stripper 101 contest in 2007… LOL.
Must’a been hard to do wearing a burqa, eh? Oh… not quite.
I’d find it hard to accept she’d be clinging to her faith and bikinis, yet advocating importation of oppression in the US. And apparently, Muslim dominated Indonesia managed to churn out beauty contest winners without stoning or beheading them for their accomplishments.
So it might be construed that your comprehension of Shariah, and the changes within Islam in the western nations, is more limited and rigid than those who actually practice, and are working to reform, Islam. Again, read Jasser’s comment above:
Jasser was most likely referring to the fundamentalist clerics when he commented disdainfully on such “academic elitists”. But it most certainly can be applied to self-annointed infidel Shariah/Qu’ran experts as well.
Dangerous Dan: hi, YES I ‘m sure that you’r right, I sse the word IRREGARDLESS
I see IR and LESS mean the same, SO REGARDLESS is SAME AS IRRREGARD,
BUT IRRREGARD dont seems to be okay to put in a phrase, RIGHT?
bye
It sounds like Barbara Striesand is a potent troll on this site. Whewww! Please, God, don’t let it be!
F Islam.
atti, hi, WE will have to check the trols more. to find her, I have to say I like her songs,
SHE’s done so many good ones. bye
Hard Right,
I love your moniker. Well, I guess debate is beyond the poing when you’re “Hard Right”. Very tough indeed . “Would you like to hear the arguments, Sir?” “No, damn, you, just give me whatever’s most Hard Right! And a glass of sherry.”
Where is Smookum and where’s the Alexander post?
We Americans (all Westerners in general) are supposed to accept the Islamophilic excuse that “It’s just a tiny minority of Muslims who misunderstand that Islam is the Religion of Peace. Really!! So don’t blame all of Islam for what a few extremists do.”
So why isn’t the reverse true? Why isn’t announcing “We’ve got a few whackjobs of our own; so don’t judge the USA (or The West In General) by the actions of an isolated idiot” ALSO sufficient to deflect all this Islamic rage? Hmmm?
/rhetorical question
I DO understand why: it doesn’t suit their narrative.
They NEED to feel attacked, because “an attack on Islam” is justification for ANYTHING THEY CAN MUSTER AGAINST US, according to the super-duper holy scriptures wherein Muslims are the Best of People, and Mohammed is the Perfect Man Worthy of Emulation. Mohammed justified killing people for not submitting to his new religion because THAT was “attacking Allah”; he twisted the sense of things around so that “wanting to be left alone in peace” became the equivalent of declaring war on Islam. His followers do the same thing today.
As soldiers, we were required to respect Islam in Iraq. I was never one to always tow the party line. My thoughts were that if the people I was working with failed to respect me and my religious beliefs, there was no way I could show a respect I did not feel towards their religion.
I used common courtesy as my rule. I also made my thoughts known. I had daily meetings with at least 5-19 Iraqis respected in their communities. At first, they respected be for my rank. As We knew each other better, our respect grew to be mutual for who we were. We found first that when we got to know each other, we could talk about religion. Many are men like we are.
One of the Sheikhs told me that Saddam told the Iraqi people over their television that we would perish in the intense heat of Iraq. This gentleman conceded to me that while Iraqis retreat to their homes between 12:00 to 1600 daily, we continued to work and fight in the harshest heat. They never saw soldiers like us.
This led to our discussion of their daily lives. I learned how much was based on religion and how much was based on having a dictator for a leader. This was hard for them to differentiate. So much of their thoughts were molded for them by both religion as well as their leaders. Slowly, they understood how much they thought were religion was actually the result of some leader’s policy.
Throughout the bleak days of 2004-2006, these men provided intelligence that saved countless lives. They saw a vision of what their country and lives could be with their religion but with different leaders.
They did try to convert me with a smile hidden behind their hands. They told me they could help me get a house on the Tigris river. Since I was single, they even offered to get me 3 wives whose ages totaled less than mine (53 at the time). I knew they were kidding me, but I acted serious. I told them that I really was considering their offer. I would enjoy working with them, but, I never bought shoes with out trying them on first. It took them awhile to understand what I meant. They pretended shock and then we all laughed and patted each other on the back.
Are these moderate Moslems? I do not know. What I do know is that if others allowed, we would have been able to work and live together. We even discussed how funny they would look skiing the Colorado slopes in their man dresses.
During one of our very serious discussions, I talked about what life in the US was like. I told them about our freedoms to include religious freedom. They gathered around like children so they wouldn’t miss a word. Then I told them one of the major difficulties they would face in America. “In America, we put our table cloths on our tables when we eat, not on our head.” We all laughed and laughed at each other and ourselves. I miss my friends in Iraq.
Tom, I had a long day with other people’s animals and now I must see to mine.
I’ve already done a post on Alexander of Macedon, it is in my bibliography. I would not have dwelt on his supposed homosexuality, mainly because he had a great many wives and concubines. I think his theatrical flair and his willingness to dress in ethnic clothing caused resentment among his more dour and conservative Greeks. Thus a rumor mill started, that is still in action and no doubt fueled by the homosexuals. I prefer to deal with facts over supposition. A more contentious and worthy subject is his violation of the military and political standards of over extension.
As far as literary goals, I’ve already been a pro, so there is no magic in being published for me.
Yes, this is a Conservative blog: unless the president has an epiphany and manages to turn around the country with sound fiscal principles, you wont find the typical Obama chants with women who can faint on cue.
Now, I must take care of my four legged friends.
Oh, what is the reference to Gibbon? In Indo China some of the guys liked to eat monkey on a stick and even monkey brain. I will eat Grizzly heart, but carnivores are not really my fare (they stink when you skin them) and certainly not primates. I have never thought of eating Gibbon, that is disgusting.
Randy, that is the best comment I’ve ever seen on this site.
Skookum, can you provide a link to that Alexander essay, because I can’t find it and would love to read it. Thank you in advance.
Randy, Well said and Honestly Spoken.
Thanks Pardner!
Randy,
I would love to hear more of such experiences as you and Old Trooper have had as blogposts, and not just comments buried within posts.
Debate? Oh yes Tom, it’s clear that is what you want. 🙄
Again, you prove yourself a hypocrite and a loon.
OLD TROOPER2, hi,
this was a good POST, THANK’S TO Wordsmith.
we haven’t heard from you, for too long. TODAY 21 OF AUGUST 2011
you gave excellent responses here and good advices for all to take seriously,
thank you for that bit of wisdom.
hope to have you here at FLOPPING ACES, and home VERY SOON
BEST TO YOU, AND STAY SAFE.