Topical question, indeed. Since similar labels have been thrown around over the cordoba mosque scandal.
David Harsanyi cuts right to the core of this divisive debate:
There are those who continue to make the facile claim that any protest over Park51 is a display in un-American intolerance and contempt for the Constitution. This position treats criticism of faith — religious institutions and symbols included — as tantamount to “bigotry.”
Prevailing opinion states that 70 percent of Americans are in opposition to this mosque. Yes, that would include Senator Harry Reid along with myself. Truly this is an extraordinary issue for a conservative to stand alongside Harry Reid. Yet some would view our stance as islamophobic and/or bigoted. In a recent interview Pelosi suggested the federal government should look into funding sources of those who oppose the mosque. Seriously, it has come down to this – let’s investigate the financial background of those in opposition? All of this adds up to a chilling assault on free speech. Long gone are the days when dissent was patriotic.
Jonah Goldberg finds the ‘perversely disfiguring narrative‘ of American anti-muslim bigotry to be nothing more than total bunk.
This is an incredibly tolerant country and, it has shown remarkable tolerance since 9/11. There has been no “anti-Muslim” backlash.
Cordoba Mosque – do we need to build it to prove that we are not bigots? Jonah reminds us that tolerance must work both ways:
In any decent society, tolerance must work both ways. If the majority is expected to show respect for a minority, the minority must also show some tolerance for the values of the majority. I’m no strict majoritarian – one with right on his side is the majority as far as I’m concerned. But this isn’t a clear-cut issue of right and wrong. It’s more complicated than that. It’s about deference and decency and common sense. And one of the things common sense should tell us is that it is not only unfair but terribly ill-advised to portray 7 out of 10 Americans as bigots when they are anything but.
Now, who will be the first to throw stones at this opinion?
Talk about double standards here!!
Rebuild St. Nicholas CHURCH at Ground Zero, not a mosque
For nearly nine years, there has been a grass-roots effort to get St. Nicholas Orthodox Church rebuilt, which was completely destroyed when the South Tower fell on it. The parish still has an active congregation but no building; they have been meeting to worship in Brooklyn. The NY/NJ Port Authority, with the acquiescence of the local tranzi-progressive/dhimmi/jihadist politicians, bureaucrats, and media, have put up one roadblock after another to stop the church from being rebuilt. Now, many of us Orthodox Christians, working pretty much independently by word of mouth among friends and parishoners, have finally succeeded in getting some news media attention to this matter.
I’d like to ask all Americans supporting St. Nicholas Church to call, write, or better yet, GO AND VISIT the offices of their US Representative and US Senators. You will probably just get to talk to a staffer, but the staffer will pass this information along. It makes a BIG difference if you take the trouble to write a personal letter or show up in person.
Everyone, please, pass the information along to everybody else you know who might be interested. Put it on Facebook, repost it on your own blog, email it to your friends and relatives, whatever else you can think of. We need to get something done while the issue is still in the public eye.
Thanks!
@ Skye,
Most religions have little in their history to be proud of, particularly when viewed through the perspective of 2010 eyes, especially Western eyes.
Islam looks even more out of tune with the realities of the modern world, and its tenets, as well as the “laws” it promulgates go beyond any current tolerant understanding of religion.
Most humans who profess to follow a religion feel some levels of conflict with particular elements preached, or conduct promoted, by their religions. It is understandable that many Muslims would be so conflicted. Many of the rules or commands they are directed to follow conflict with their sense of either common sense or human decency, particular some of the more radical elements. For non-Muslims, their view of Islam is even more conflicted given it’s very radical stance toward “infidels,” and given its very oppressive stance toward the female half of the human race.
In America, the biggest contradiction is the conflict between Islam and the Constitution’s separation of “Church and State.” How could that not be the case? Sharia deals with political, commercial, economic, criminal, judicial, religious and all other manner of personal affairs. It divinely dictates the way of life. In practice, Muslim states are theocracies – very far removed from the democratic form of government America enjoys.
The concerns and apprehension in America for the wider spread of Islam is understandable. The distaste for a Mosque near Ground Zero is also understandable, and should be recognized by the wider Muslim community. What probably started as a real estate gambit, has brought a confrontation to the fore that stimulates debate and has obviously lead to further comprehension of the core elements at the heart of the most widespread religion/governance system on Earth.
I wonder what Jonah Goldberg calls the detonation of the bomb at a Jacksonville, Florida mosque during evening prayers three months ago? Maybe there’s no backlash so long as the stories don’t get much play in the national news.
http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/fbi-finds-pipe-bomb-used-in-blast-at-fla-mosque/19475001
There’s a Koran-burning event coming up in Gainsville, Florida on September 11.
Then we’ve got New York City public buses displaying anti-Islamic ads, encouraging people to abandon their religion. The ads are also appearing on buses in San Francisco. Coming soon, to a major American city near you!
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2010/0728/Anti-Islamic-bus-ads-appear-in-major-cities
In a few days the same organization–Stop Islamization of America–will be plastering public buses with anti-“Ground Zero Mosque” ads that feature images of the 9/11 attack. SIOA just prevailed in court over the city’s efforts to decline the ads.
I’m still wondering why no one seems to be able to tell the difference between me (and over 70% of us) not wanting them to build there, and me not wanting the government to tell them they can’t build there, and why the two are not mutually exclusive.
And I’m still wondering how, with millions of Muslims in the US, there aren’t a lot of dead infidels in the news over the decades… killed for resisting conversion to Islam, Patvann. Or, in another case, how so many “ex Muslim” groups/associations exist to protest mosque building around the country and no where near ground zero. You know the same group that’s pissed off Rauf didn’t sign their petition? uh… Aren’t they supposed to be dead for leaving Islam, according to our in house “scholarly experts”?
Dang… must be blood running in the streets, and our media is unaware…..
1389AD, it’s truly tiresome to have to continually keep debunking the half researched talking points going around. Went thru the St. Nicholas story back on Aug 1st, and still the misinformation abounds.
The church has all the rights to rebuild on their property. What they were negotiating was a larger, grander parcel parcel nearby with a $20 mil subsidy from the Port Authority. Port Authority needs the space below the existing church for a bomb screening center.
Yeah… that’s just like the Cordoba House… NOT.
Although not stated, surely the author knows that Reid is only
“opposed” to the mosque because it is an election year in which he finds himself in a life and death struggle for his office.
Saying that the Constitution should allow Islam is like saying Rev Johnson should allow Ted Bundy to spend the night in the bedroom with his daughters. It is the definition of insanity to allow those that wish to destroy you into your home.
Bill of Rights under Islam
1 ) denied
4 ) denied
5 ) denied
6 ) denied
7 ) denied
8 ) denied
13) denied
14) denied
15) denied
19) denied
Every Individual Right protected under our Constitution is not allowed under Islam. Just because we are a free and open society/country does not mean that those that wish to destroy us should be free to do so.
Every scientific advance made by the Persians was made before Islam was imposed upon them. Every place that Islam has flourished, science and society has stagnated and now that they have money and a means, they wish to infect the rest of the world. To wish that on the future children of any country is unconscionable. They do not want to be Americans they want us to be Muslims.
I am NOT a racist and I am not a xxxx-phobe, I am a staunch defender of freedom and freedom does not flourish or survive where Islam or socialism reins.
Opposition to the mosque is bigoted IMHO. Nobody can present a rational reason for preventing the construction of our mosque. And no, seeeeensitiiiiiiiivity is not a rational reason.
How it infuriates a bigot, when he is forced to drag out his dark convictions.
@googoo
Opposition to a mosque at that location is not by definition bigoted. Opposition to all things Islam, is.
-Just as calling all those who oppose it “bigoted”, is also.
I’ll remember that quip about “seeeeensitiiiiiiiivity” the next time punishment or banishment is called for by the Left, when some bozo calls someone else a fag, or a n****er.
@googoo
That, in and of itself, is a bigoted statement.
Opposition to the Mosque, googoo, takes many forms, some of them overlapping one another within a singular person. Some dislike a symbol of those who attacked us on 9/11, who did so in the religion’s name, from being so closely associated with the epicenter of the attack. Some truly hate Islam, and wish nothing more of that religion to gain footholds within our borders. Some, who feel slighted and attacked by the government as christians, feel that government promotion of this mosque is just one more incident showing intolerance for their own religious practice. And some feel that although it may well truly be an innocent endeavor by moderate Muslims, that it will be claimed by the intolerant Jihadists as a sign of victory, to be exploited in their quest for Islamic rule.
Myself, I think it is an intolerant position taken by both sides of the issue. And even though, per our very Constitution, and the governing laws of NY, they may have the right to build where they choose, that their choice runs counter to their claims of healing and outreach. It does so by the very fact that the truly hateful, from both sides, will lay claim to the mosque as a symbol for furthering their hatred. Not a wise choice, if one is promoting peace, to install a symbol of hatred so near to one of the deepest wounds our country has endured.
What exactly, constitutes a “religion” in the eyes of the State? Since “religion” is a hot topic on these boards of late, I thought it would be nice to have the learned scholars on this board comment on this fundamental question.
I do know that the IRS weighs in on the topic, although I’m not sure of all their regulations, it begs the question of why they can create any regulation in the first place.
So.. If someone much smarter than I, since some here consider people like me “dolts” for our views on some “religions”, could “instruct” me on what it takes for the state to view a philosophy as a “proper” religion, afforded all the perks and protections of the first amendment, I would be most receptive to their views on the subject.
@Mr. Bly
I cannot answer your question, and I don’t think that anyone else here can either. It is a question that begs a state-sponsored definition of religion, and as such, is akin to the state determining what one can believe in and how it is accomplished.
The IRS has no business determining what constitutes a religion as far as taxation or any other determination one can offer.
I do, however, profess a strong belief towards the Christian religion being the forming ideology of our Constitutional, Republican form of government, and there is strong evidence to support this idea.
Here’s another opinion. Victor David Hanson is the author.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/print/244120
@Don
Once the government let the Scientologist’s call their off-shore banking and on-shore brainwashing schemes be called a religion, all bets were off regarding any logical definition.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster is closer to the classical definition, then they are.
Thus, I am at as much of a loss as you.
Victor David Hanson, a registered member of the democratic party, is perhaps a bit “rascally” himself. I really couldn’t help but appreciate the workings of the man’s mind as I read through his article. He should challenge Imam Rauf to a public debate. It would really be something to watch; a verbal game of chess between masters.
Anyone catch that Muslims are eximpt from Obamacare because there religion forbids it… Maybe we should all be MINOs?
Patvann…. I’m a holder of a Doctorate in Theology… which hasn’t been of much use, but as the leader of my own faith, I think that I’m exempt from ObamaCare too! I think, yes… yes…. It’s a revelation! I am exempt.
The thing about religion, no matter what the tenants of said religion, each individual views the world from a unique perspective, therefore no two individuals hold the same views even though they profess the same religious philosophy.
@googoo
Hey, nobody forces me, I will freely give you my opinion! Come to Texas, unlike muslims, we will let you know right up front what we think.
In “Obamacare” we are seeing the lethal corruption of Chicago politics writ large.
The government will save money by never providing the health care that was promised.
In other words, Thomas Sowell and Rep. Joe Wilson are correct: Obama lied.
See: http://tinyurl.com/obozocare