Obama Takes Ownership of the Ground Zero Mosque [Reader Post]

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The NY Times reported that Barack Obama “strongly” supports the building of a mosque at Ground Zero:

Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site

WASHINGTON — President Obama delivered a strong defense on Friday night of a proposed Muslim community center and mosque near ground zero in Manhattan, using a White House dinner celebrating Ramadan to proclaim that “as a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country.”

He understands

“I understand the emotions that this issue engenders. Ground zero is, indeed, hallowed ground,” the president said in remarks prepared for the annual White House iftar, the sunset meal breaking the day’s fast.

But….”

He just doesn’t care what Americans feel.

Aides to Mr. Obama say privately that he has always felt strongly about the proposed community center and mosque…

The White House itself sought immediately to distance itself from Obama:

President Barack Obama’s decision to make public comments Friday that further stoked an already brewing controversy over the construction of a mosque near ground zero was “purely” his own, an administration official said Saturday.

70% of Americans oppose the building of this mosque. Obama is in favor it. “Strongly”

This is the President who does not believe in the exceptionalism of America.

“I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism.”

In other words, we’re kidding ourselves. America isn’t special (and it won’t be if Democrats are left in power much longer)

He even thinks America ought to be taken down a peg:

No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed. No balance of power among nations will hold.” It is difficult to see how a US president who holds these views and does not even accept America’s greatness in history can actually lead the world’s only superpower with force and conviction.

As has been pointed out here repeatedly, Feisal Rauf and his cohorts do have a right to build that mosque, but it doesn’t make it right. It’s no more right than would be the building of a Nazi museum in downtown Tel Aviv, legal or not.

The families of 9-11 victims were outraged:

We are stunned by the president’s willingness to disregard what Americans should be proud of: our enduring generosity to others on 9/11–a day when human decency triumphed over human depravity.

Then when the sh*t hit the fan, Obama started to backtrack:

“Well, my intention was simply to let people know what I thought,” Obama said Saturday when asked about his Friday speech after an event in Panama City, Fla., about the BP oil spill. “In this country we treat everybody equally and in accordance with the law, regardless of race, regardless of religion. I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there. I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding. That’s what our country is about.”

Not even Cokie Roberts was having any of it:

“…she flat out said President Obama “very clearly” endorsed the Ground Zero Mosque in his remarks to a gathering Muslims at the White House for a Ramadan Dinner, and called his attempt to backtrack on what he said “silly.” Roberts said Obama is already taking all the flack for what he said, and to backtrack on it now is “silly.”

Greg Gutfeld pulled the burka off the whole charade with his hysterical suggestion that he would try to build a gay bar next to the proposed mosque. As Gary Kukis noted here:

Park51 twittered, “You’re free to open whatever you like. If you won’t consider the sensibilities of Muslims, you’re not going to build dialog.”

If you’re not going to consider the sensibilities of Americans, you’re not going to build dialog either, Imam Rauf. Sensitivity is a two-way street, but that’s not how it’s going. The demand is that everyone else be sensitive to Muslims while Muslims need not be sensitive to others.

What Obama should have said was that while the right to build the mosque clearly exists, that wisdom suggests it ought to be built elsewhere. Predictably, he didn’t. He took sides against his country once again.

Mark Twain said “It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.”

Obama should have kept his mouth closed. Now it’s Obama’s mosque.

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Rich, more credible polls have the obomination at 41% approval.

I totally agree with you DKK it will all come out after he is out of office.
There is some reason he is not releasing educational records, medical records. Why?
Look what they put Rush Limbaugh through with his medical records. If Joe Citizen has to cough up documents and they are made public, then what gives with his information.

Here ya go………words from his own mouth. HIS MUSLIM FAITH.

I am a Christian..I would never if talking to someone say……my Jewish faith, my hindu faith. It slipped out and he had to do damage control

Exactly. Lawyers are allowed to tell juries that they can infer bad things from the fact that someone is not forthcoming with evidence they have. So too, I infer that barry soetoro is hiding things. since the rules that apply to all citizens of the US (arguably a point in controversy) apply to the president, as well.

I just don’t get why he doesn’t release everything, make his life an open slate, and be done with this. As someone mentioned, maybe it is to deflect us from other serious and pressing issues, but damn, if this guy is NOT qualified to be pres, there will be hell to pay. And I would like to avoid that, if possible.

I will say to you DKK that this issue is a no-win situation for the GOP primarily because it makes our side look loony.

Even if Obie is Muslim, the Constitution specifically says that there is no religious test to serve as POTUS.

If he were to be revealed as not being a citizen then his removal from office would set this country ablaze….perhaps literally.

Also, one other thing to think about: President Joe Biden.

There are plenty of other concrete things to go after the guy on. Heck, just look at how the wheels are coming off already…and we’re what, 18 months or so in?

The citizenship issue and the secrecy are win-win issues for Obie. He gets to keep whatever secrets he’s hiding, if any…and those who wish to criticize him for it get the ridicule.

There’s not a Court in the land that is going to touch the matter, so it’s best left alone.

He can’t reveal everything because he is guilty of lying.

I can’t for the life of me think why the Republican party did not go after this before the election. No Republican could have ever gotten away with it.

Barry Soetoro is Muslims he admitted it.

If I was being accused of something that was not true, I would cough up the facts and slam them into the faces of those who accused me of wrongdoing.

Now we have the MSM disingenuously reporting that — GASP — many Americans “erroneously” believe that Ozero is Muslim. They continue to insist he’s a Christian who “prays every day.” If many of us believe he’s Muslim, he is the reason why. He did not repeat The Lord’s Prayer at his Inauguration, he did not celebrate Christmas, he did not participate in the World Day of Prayer, and he does not attend a Christian church. He did, however, celebrate Ramadan at the White House. And, as azchurchmouse noted, he spoke of his “Muslim” faith.

AC- sadly, you are probably right. I have wondered for the life of me why the US Supremes don’t take up Dr Orly Taitz or any of the other challengers to the obama throne. That may be why.

I am with you AZChurchmouse and Toothfairy. No doubt in my mind that he is Muslim, and we are all just getting laughed at by the rest of the Arab world. The article linked by SueK was enlightening, to say the least. To a Muslim- not just a radical- the mosques are VERY symbolic.

I have spent a good amount of time in Egypt and parts of the Arab world. Their culture is vastly different than ours. I have spent much time in China and the Far East, and their culture is far more akin to ours, as alien as it may appear. Bridging a cultural divide between Muslims and Westerners will take far more than talk. They talk and WE have to do all the acting.

What’s wrong with this picture?

@azchurchmouse #58: It’s all the lying that will eventually catch up with him. He can’t even remember all the lies he’s told. But the people will. Come November there will be an accounting.

FA Birthers and Islamaphobes I defer to A.C. STATEMENT IN #52.

I made him a solemn promise I wouldn’t accuse any of you fine folks of being racists and I intend to keep that promise.

Semper Fi

@DKK #60: Roger Simon has an interesting article on his blog today about the words Rauf uses here in English vs. the words he uses to his Muslim audience in Arabic. The most compelling quote for me was: “I do not believe in religious dialogue.” That may come as quite a surprise to Rauf’s apologists in the US who claim the purpose of the GZ mosque/cultural center is to create such a dialogue. This tracks with what you said about them doing the talking and we doing all the acting.

Toothfairy- scary stuff. The thing is, there are so many messages from the Muslims out there, and if we had some intellectually honest and intellectually capable journalists to start digging, I think they would find that this is, indeed a Trojan Horse. The radicals all espouse the idea that they will blend in with our society for years- the Muslim friends you have today could turn into the radicals of tomorrow. I am not denigrating the entire religion, but truthfully, the few have made it difficult to not suspect the many. What do we do? Allow everyone to turn our freedoms against us– again?

Exactly, why THERE? On burial gound for countless souls?

@DKK #63: I posted a link on another thread last night that is relevant. It was a link to an article on Yahoo titled “Some Muslims Question Mosque Near Ground Zero.” You can access it at:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_ground_zero_mosque_muslims

They bring up some of the same arguments we have, but they don’t seem to have any more influence than we do.

I read it, Toothfairy. Understood. But how interesting. Can someone point me to a single non Muslim who lost a loved one on 9/11 and tell me that they SUPPORT this plan?

I live in NY, work in NYC, and have not encountered one.

And shame on Bloomberg! All these years, I have liked and supported him because I felt that with his wealth, he was not beholden to any special interests, but would do what is in the best interests of NYC. Now I see that even he is guided by self interest.

DKK: Sadly, Ted Olson, former US Solicitor General under GWB and husband of Barbara Olson, who died on 9/11, does support the GZ mosque. Barbara was one of the passengers who was able to call her husband that morning from the plane. According to his Wiki bio, Olson has been married four times. Barbara was his third wife. A year after her death he met a tax attorney from Kentucky to whom he is now married. Every which way I’m unimpressed with the guy.

@ DKK, #65:

“Can someone point me to a single non-Muslim who lost a loved one on 9/11 and tell me that they SUPPORT this plan?”

Meet Colleen Kelly, a Bronx Catholic, whose brother was killed in the 9/11 attacks. She has an opinion:

http://www.citylimits.org/conversations/111/mosque-debate-religious-intolerance

Ms. Kelly, of course, doen’t have the sort of high-profile platform that’s being provided by anti-Islamic firebrands such as Pamela Geller, who lumps all Muslims together and presumes to speak on behalf of the entire community of 9/11 families. (Geller is currently central to the Stop Islamization of America media campaign. Other opinions she has expressed put her on the political lunatic fringe, to my way of thinking.)

The vast majority of survivors of 9/11 victims haven’t publicly expressed their thoughts on the issue. No one should presume to speak for them without actually knowing what their opinions are.

Yep. Also Ted Olson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_7Iw8ims9U

Another calm, rational voice, in my opinion. A republican, who was an outspoken critic of Bill Clinton. His wife was on board American Airlines flight 77 when it crashed into the Pentagon.

Ok, there are two. I also know that people who lose loved ones in murderous, irrational deaths have a desperate need for closure and to find “meaning” in their deaths. God love these folks, if they find meaning in allowing this mosque near the WTC, then I hope it gives them peace.

I too lost friends. Not family, but long term friends. Not conscripting anyone’s grief or anger, just my own. I will not find peace until these radicals are off the face of the earth.

Sorry.

One of the brightest minds in my high school was killed that day. He was on his way to conduct a lecture at Stanford. I’m with you, DKK, with the emphasis on “radicals.”

I planted this link on another thread today – a more recent one – but in case you missed it, it’s worth a read if you have time. It kind of supports both sides. It supports those who say that muslims just want peace, and it supports those of us who say that muslims intend to overcome us – one way or another. It’s pretty long, and not even that current…it is a presentation given in 2004 … but if you have time…!

>>http://www.danielpipes.org/2196/the-challenge-of-islamism-in-europe-the-middle-east>>

What I fail to understand is why Word, Aye and Mata are adamantly convinced that muslims in the USA are unlike muslims anywhere else, and are the hope for east-west peace in the future. Virtually all that I have seen them cite has rested on the authority of Rauf and his “bridges”. I don’t know anything about the man, really. There are some muslim groups that appear to want to peacefully integrate, but they seem low in number so far. There are some groups that have left islam, but they don’t really represent muslims in the US or islam because they have chosen to no longer practice the religion. Mata has mentioned three women as examples of the new independent muslim woman, but of the three, one I don’t know, one is now an atheist, and one is now a Christian – so…how are they the examples of modern free muslim women??? I just don’t understand…

suek: hi, I just came from the post “DAISIE KHAN” and I realise that It take some to play the opposite side, because we forget the public’s involvement is include in all we say,
AND for most of us, IT comes out direct from the hearth and soul;
SO we have to accept MODERATORS, in this FA blogs with the AUTHORS who knows how
OUR groups will shake the tables and throw the chairs out the window ,
sometimes; BUT that’s the way CURT want’s IT, FREEDOM of speech by a group
AIMING at the common goal in NOVEMbER. bye

Sue K- Also, why didn’t Rauf sign the “Freedom Pledge”?

The women are examples of “Free” becaused they are no longer Muslim.

@DKK:

Sue K- Also, why didn’t Rauf sign the “Freedom Pledge”?

My speculation is here.

@suek #72:

What I fail to understand is why Word, Aye and Mata are adamantly convinced that muslims in the USA are unlike muslims anywhere else,

Did you fail to read my comment to you or to skat?

Or look up:

1: Harvard Kennedy Schools March 2009 report, “Muslim Integration into Western Cultures: Between Origins and Destinations”
2: Pew Research’s May 2007 study, “Muslim Americans: Middle class and mostly mainstream”
3: Woodrow Wilson’s Int’l Ctr for Scholars June 2003 study, “Muslims in the United States; Demography, Beliefs, Institutions”

The Harvard Kennedy Schools study is linked in the Max Boot article I linked earlier.

oh yes, well there is a Bastion to moderate or even moderately level and fair journalism– Harvard law schooll Seriously, their pontificating and proselityzing in the name of politics is tiresome and naught but a huge waste. They have the name, no question.

Sadly, they don;t have the intellectual honesty to back their comments up. Nor the facts.

Have you a clue who they are? And who supports them?

And here we go, this is next: Go ahead. Seriously. Defend this. Reported on aol today.

The authorities are seeking the punishment at the request of the man’s victim in the fight. The victim, Abdul-Aziz al-Mutairi, is able to make a request under sharia law, since he himself was left paralyzed by the fight.

Such cases of qisas (retribution) are not unusual in Saudi Arabia. Other sentences that have been passed include gouging a convict’s eyes, extracting their teeth and even death sentences as punishment for murder.

DDK & suek: Also, why didn’t Rauf sign the “Freedom Pledge”?

I could swear I’ve been here, done this before…. why yes, I did back on August 10th in response to Smorgabord.. But since repeating ourselves endlessly has become the norm here… let’s try one more time.

Your first clue about Former Muslims United’s “freedom pledge” may be the fact that same group has been protesting the building of mosques all around the country, including putting up billboards for the Murfreesboro, TN mosque.

Your second clue should be that out of the hundreds of Muslim leaders who received the petition from this relatively new USA group, only *two* Muslim leaders *have* signed it.

This group was formed only last September, and done after petitioning the FBI to investigate what they called hate crimes against apostates. Problem was, they had no statistics or deaths to cite. Nor could they come up with any type of number of who has been threatened. They referred to the 17 yr old who bolted to Florida to escape her parents, wAs in protective custody until her release on her 18th birthday early this month. You got to love it when the system works… you know, that “help” that people believe isn’t there for Muslims and/or Muslim converted to Christians on the lam?

Since their brief life span as an organization (of five people), they’ve existed pretty much to throw obstacles in the path of Muslims. Obviously their behavior has not won the hearts and minds of Muslim leaders, and everyone but two of the recipients of their petition has chosen to ignore them. Gee… wonder why…. /sarc

I believe Wordsmith has already reposted the names of the three most recent reports on American Muslims that I put in another thread. Since all three of these are archived as PDF’s on my computer, I don’t have links. However a search of the title and the source should get you to them quite easily. It’s not like they are a state secret, and have been there – online – always available for the curious of mind.

@DKK: Sadly, they don;t have the intellectual honesty to back their comments up. Nor the facts.

Have you a clue who they are? And who supports them?

Well, both these questions tell me you didn’t even bother to look at the March 2009 report, DKK. Especially since the six pages of source footnotes “back up” the abstract, and who it is, and where the funding is from is all on the first page.

duh….

suek: Mata has mentioned three women as examples of the new independent muslim woman, but of the three, one I don’t know, one is now an atheist, and one is now a Christian – so…how are they the examples of modern free muslim women???

I see you didn’t do your homework again, suek. Otherwise in your travels, you would have encountered my favorite lady for years, Irshad Manji. Nor was our debate subject about “modern free Muslim women”, but about those who help others escape, advocate for reform and cope with any oppression. I see you totally forgot the gist of the conversation… again. And once more misrepresentated the back and forth. I do wish you would provide links instead of trying to paraphrase conversations with me. It’s like the kid’s game of Gossip, when I read your synopis… what comes out is nothing close to the original story.

Nor do these names represent “one individual” (or “four” total, as you prefer to think of it), as they all have networks of others they work with on the same issues… both for women, and for reform.

Perhaps the most stupid thing about these boards is that you can always find a fanatic lib who will espouse your point of view, despite the truth. Sure I read what a Harvard law prof says, some idiot who has never practiced law — or more importantly. never practiced a law or ran a business a day in his life, and conveniently ignores what fuels the engines of economy- small business and tax cuts!

Gee, here’s a newsflash Mata . Did not know I was supposed to come in here omnipotent with all the knowledge, feigned or otherwise, that allegedly has been part of this board. You and wordsmith are quite the item on that.

No i didn;t “bother” to look at the March 2009 report, which btw, is likley obsolete. Again, sorry, but no one told me the rules here. And if you are not the governing body, then you have WAY too much hubris on that one.

BTW Mata-

The ides behind NOT building the citadel to sharia law and Islam is supportive of your favorite lady who advocates for reform and supports anti-oppression.

You want ot help her? Seriouslyl send a message.

The message of appeasement DOES NTO WORK.

You didn’t have to be omnipotent, DKK. The link to the Mar 2009 study about assimilation of Muslims, and how they rate issues of import (differing even from country to country) was all there. You needed only do two clicks, and instead you chose to diss it all without even seeing whether it was an opinion piece, or construction of research and polls.

“likely obsolete”… LOL Would you like this duplicated every month or so?

As far as “governing body”, I’m only an author here. Curt’s “da man” You have complaints, take it up with him. Genuinely not sure how pointing out your questions gave away the fact you were research lazy was hubris. THe answers to both were so overt from page one, and the last six pages of a full report, complete with graphs and pictures totalling 38. Not exactly a major commitment to even have a cursory glance.

But then, I see your hypersensitivity isn’t confined to just me.

@DKK… again you are coming in here after what has been over a month and a half of debate. It’s like trying to catch someone up to a movie plot when they decide to come in three scenes from the end. If you genuinely want to know who the players are in the debate here, and what we actually believe instead of assuming, you’d really have to go back to the older post in the GZM category.

Since you were daunted by a 38 pg report, I’m not guessing you’ll endeavor to wade thru thousands of comments over 29-30 posts (and counting). Can’t say as I blame you there, but it cannot be helped if you leap to erroneous conclusions because you simply haven’t been around here long enough to know the personalities and specific battles. Nor can anyone really paraphrase them for you… at least accurately. Doesn’t mean they won’t try tho.

So let me summarize for you… I don’t like Cordoba House. Find it just as offensive as you. But I find attempting to rearrange laws and ordinances to prohibit it, because they are Muslim and because it’s offensive, even *more* offensive.

Secondly, I’m not at war with Islam…. and as Bush ID’s, we are at war with the global Islamic jihad movements. Cordoba Initiative has no evidentiary ties to either jihad groups, nor the 911 attacks. I will not go there with you… you trend on that blanket casting on your own, and with your fellow anti-Islam types you’ll find here. There’s no dearth of them, so you shan’t be alone. I am stil of the mind that people are innocent until proven guilty, even tho I do keep wary eyes poised on some subjects. And they aren’t all Muslims. Most of them, in fact, are the very dangerous lib/progs in our WH and Congress, who are causing far more damage than this building could ever do.

Lastly, Irshad has not weighed in personally on the Cordoba House. She did have some interesting feedback, which was all she asked for on her Facebook site… and provided some excerpts here. Frankly, they seem like a sane bunch that she picked, and it doesn’t surprise me she attracts that. She thought it merited a “healthy debate”, and I agree.

Problem is, around here, that debate isn’t always that “healthy”.

What you are speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.

Keep attacking., who knows maybe someone will bite.

Here’s a newsflash for you. I am not making new law on Cordoba House- YOU KNOW, the rallyiig cry of Muslim victory. (Yeah, Do YOUR homework)

ALL I am saying is that it is unseemly and against the ethical considerations of most people who lost loved onew in 9/11. And of other New Yorkers who fled across the Brooklen Bridge, whose memory is that of many shoes being left behid, so that people could get to safe harbor.

YOU were not there, and I personally resent your belittling of it;

suek, hi, today april 4 rth 2011, I,CAME BACK TO RE READ AGAIN, AND
I TRYED TO OPEN YOUR LINK ON YOUR 72, AND IT COULD NOT BE FOUND,
just thought you’d like to know,
bye

DKK on your 64, IT LOOK LIKE YOU WHERE PREDICTING AS today 4rth of april 2011,
we look around the MUSLIM’S NATIONS IN REVOLT, to become homogenous as one pound of butter is,
bye