Shuji Kajiyama-AP
The Hiroshima bomb, nicknamed “Little Boy,” released a mix of shockwaves, heat rays and radiation, killing thousands instantly.
By the end of 1945, the death toll had risen to some 140,000 out of an estimated population of 350,000. Thousands more died of illness and injuries later.
Three days after the Hiroshima attack, on August 9, 1945, the United States dropped a second nuclear bomb on the city of Nagasaki in southern Japan. Japan surrendered six days later, ending the military aggression that brought it into World War Two.
The United States, recently involved in a row with Tokyo over the relocation of a U.S. air base on the southern Japan island of Okinawa, sent a representative to the ceremony for the first time, reflecting President Barack Obama’s push to rid the world of nuclear weapons.
No sitting Japanese prime minister has ever been to Pearl Harbor; and no sitting American president has ever been to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Will President Obama be the first?
And if so, why or why not?
I don’t believe we have anything to apologize for; but this does not mean we cannot express compassion for those who were victims of what was necessary at the time to win and shorten the war; and extend compassion to the family members who mourn their loss.
“PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH”
Folded by wordsmith
Label reads:
Traditionally in Japan, the crane is a symbol of honor, peace, and loyalty. An ancient Japanese legend promises that anyone who folds a thousand origami cranes will be granted a wish by a crane, such as long life or recovery from illness or injury. The crane in Japan is one of the mystical or holy creatures (others include the dragon and the tortoise), and is said to live for a thousand years. In Asia, it is commonly said that folding 1000 paper origami cranes makes a person’s wish come true. This makes them popular gifts for special friends and family.
Due to the legend of Sadako Sasaki, who died of luekemia sickness as a result of the dropping of the A-Bomb, the folding of a thousand paper cranes has not only come to symbolize long life and health, but also of world peace. But there can be no permanent peace in the absence of a strong military dedicated to its preservation. Using a 12 x 12″ square of “kami”-flage paper to fold the traditional tsuru, the military peace crane represents one of the ironies and paradoxes of war and peace inherent in the human condition.
-Compiled and written (pillaged and plagiarized) by wordsmith, with hat tip to Wikipedia and Operation Peace Crane
A former fetus, the “wordsmith from nantucket” was born in Phoenix, Arizona in 1968. Adopted at birth, wordsmith grew up a military brat. He achieved his B.A. in English from the University of California, Los Angeles (graduating in the top 97% of his class), where he also competed rings for the UCLA mens gymnastics team. The events of 9/11 woke him from his political slumber and malaise. Currently a personal trainer and gymnastics coach.
The wordsmith has never been to Nantucket.
We should not have sent anyone. They should mourn their dead, we should mourn ours, there is no moral equivalency between Hiroshima and Pearl, one was an act of war that saved more lives than it took, the other an act of naked aggression that cost more lives than it initially took.
Japan continues to live in active, willful ignorance and denial of their role in WWII. Our delegation today played right into their re-writing of history.
The only way I would want His “O”lliness to go is if he stayed there.
No, he isn’t interested in our allies. If they declare war on us and start building centrifuges, then the bowing and scraping can begin.
There have been many attempts by the media to get Gen. Paul Tibbets, the Pilot of the B-29 Superfortress “Enola Gay” that delivered the bomb to Hiroshima to say that he was sorry or if he had any regrets. In each and every instance. His answer has always been “No”. When asked if he would do it again, his answer has always been “Yes”.
An excerpt from a Studs Terkel interview with Brig. Gen. Paul Tibbets:
Studs Terkel: Do you ever have any second thoughts about the bomb?
Paul Tibbets: Second thoughts? No. Studs, look. Number one, I got into the air corps to defend the United States to the best of my ability. That’s what I believe in and that’s what I work for.
The full interview can be seen here.
http://www.avweb.com/news/profiles/PaulTibbets_StudsTerkel_EnolaGayInterview_2002_196499-1.html
A little shameless self promotion:
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae277/RAPH6969/6AUG45-B.jpg
http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2010/08/55th-anniversary-atomic-bombing-of-hiroshima-japan-1/
Brigadier General Paul W. Tibbets passed into history 1NOVEMBER2007 at the age of 92.
May he rest in peace.
We expressed “compassion for
those who were victims ofwhat was necessary at the time to win and shorten the war” through the Marshall Plan — rebuilding the country that attacked us. Their own government victimized them by refusing to surrender and demanding that they fight to the last man. Death in battle was glorified, and the kami kaze pilots were the suicide bombers of their day. Japan was intent on total Asian domination, and their treatment of other Asians — Koreans, Chinese, Filipinos — as well as Western POWs — mirrored Nazi treatment of the European concentration camp victims. They were vicious. To this day their textbooks paint themselves as the victims — not the aggressors that they were. It’s time for the Japanese to come clean, stop teaching lies to their students, admit their true role in WWII, and express genuine responsibility and compassion for the millions they victimized — including those who died at Hiroshima and Nagasaki so the rest of the country could live, the war could end, and the world could be at peace again.On Black Five MCQ wrote, “My father was slated to be with the first wave of divisions landing on Kyushu. The technical description of their anticipated condition after a day or so was “combat ineffective”. That means those initial divisions would have been destroyed and unable to continue to fight.
The assumed number of casualties for that first big fight – and it wasn’t even on the main island – was about a million men on both sides.”
Kyushu is in the Souther tip of Japan. We were planning on invading Japan. 140,000 of them killed compared to an estimated 1,000,000,000 total on both sides if we invaded. It kind of justifies my reasoning on the “innocent” civilian theory where I feel it is better to destroy an enemy area and not worry so much about the “innocent” civilians. Keep them as low as possible, but not sacrifice our soldier’s live as much as we do.
The only thing we should apologize for is taking so long to get into the war. We sold war material to Germany and Japan. That’s what a capitalist county sometimes does. How many of those goods were later use to kill our soldiers?
Call me a “Warmonger”, but I’ll take an F-15 over a “Peace Crane” any fucking day…
Years after the bomb was dropped, one of the top Japanese commanders of the Pearl Habor attack said to Tibbits that the bomb was necessary. The Japanese commanders were willing to fight to the death with sticks and rocks. Their plan was called “Ketsu Go”.
Weren’t more people killed in the Tokyo fire bombings??? Would it had made the Japanese feel better if they died in fire bombings???? How about a full scale invasion involving allied Nuclear, chemical and biological attacks.
How stupid. It’s the Japanese who should be apologizing for their campaign throughout the entire southeast Pacific. I encourage them to read REAL history books depicting how they took over countless Indonesian islands and beat, raped, murdered and enslaved the indigenous people. But, you don’t see the Japanese going to any of these places apologizing for their barbarianism do you? Nope, didn’t thin so… too busy victimizing themselves and making us look like the bad guys instead. They should be more upset with their own involvement in WWII then be angry at everyone else who spilt blood to stop them.
Considering the facts of this war, I still believe that the bombing of these two cities in Japan was a necessary thing in regards to the lives these incident saved. Afterall, it could have been worse, we could have just continued to build more bombs and delivered more bombs to the Country if they had insisted on “to the last man” mentality.
We must consider what this current regime is saying here by attending this event, they are willing to re-write their version of historical events. Nothing good can become of this, because, it is in fact a falsehood according to their version, not the true history. But, hey, whats a little lieing, afterall, they continue to lie to us each and every day and are more and more convinced we are as stupid as they truely are. Damn, I wish I could find my way back from this rabbit hole they call reality. If not I think myself and a few million of us are about to rewrite their history in a very bad way and it will in no way be assured to their fantasies. That will be the truth and nothing but the truth, so help me GOD. I can see Nov. from my flyover cave.
The wording in the military peace crane has a sleight error. We did not drop an H-bomb we dropped an A- bomb. The hydrogen bomb was not developed until several years after the war ended. But then to some facts only get in the way.
Dammit….thanks for paying attention and pointing out the error, delh.
A question: Does Japan ever hold a memorial service on Dec. 7th for the Americans who died at pearl?
Perhaps there is a national day of morning for all of the Allied prisoners who died as a result of the inhumane punishment, lack of food, lack of medicine, medical treatment, or miserable living conditions during captivity in WW II?
Maybe just for those beheaded or, or shot while in captivity?
This appears to be reaping what was sown. It started with a” an unprovoked and dastardly attack” FDR on Pearl Harbor.
It ended with two sneak attacks on Japan,then working on a nuclear device of their own.
@Coastal Eddie
Careful. That is the first time I have ever heard Japan was working on a nuclear device. Sources?
@Coastal Eddie: I never thought of all of that stuff before. I used to think that the saying, “Freedom isn’t free” was stupid until I realized who paid for it. I have only been thinking about those who died on the battle field as those who wrote the check for my freedom. I didn’t think of the others you have mentioned.
I had to stop several times while typing this because you made me think about what they went through so I could be born in a free USA. Thanks for reminding us.
Now, our King-in-Chief want to reduce the retirement benefits for those in the military. I guess it shouldn’t be a surprise. He wanted them to pay for their own medical care after being wounded while fighting for our and HIS freedom. If he and the other liberals get elected again then the ones who vote for them deserve what happens next.
My dad started with the PPCLI in Italy. In Jan 44, as a seasoned nco has was transfered to the Regina Rifles(green regiment) to help train them for Normandy. They took Courseilles sur Mer on D Day. They became excellent urban warriors over time with their” mouseholing” techniques. He got hurt in Appledorn, Holland, part of the 300% turnover in replacements. With not enough trigger time, he was transfered to the Westminster Regiment, after VE day, to help train them for occupation duty in Czecholslovakia. This unit was slated for Operation Olympic, the invasion of Kyushu. Instead, he was later shipped home in June 46 and got married the following month. He died on his 62nd wedding aniversary, that being last year. Thank God for VJ Day!
Japan STARTED the damned war and we ended it! Period. Had I been in the White House in 1945, the bomb would have been dropped on downtown Tokyo, not Hiroshima. Rather than issue perpetual apologies for the greatness of the US, Hussein and his leftist, America hating comrades should take a REAL look at the history of WW II. The Bataan death march might prove a good starting point.
@delh#13:
The Federation of American Scientists (FAS) has studied and reported on WMDs around the world. Check out their article concerning Japan’s nuclear program at: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/japan/nuke/. According to the FAS: “There are indications that Japan had a more sizeable program than is commonly understood, and that there was close cooperation among the Axis powers, including a secretive exchange of war materiel….After Japan surrendered on 15 August 1945, the occupying US Army found five Japanese cyclotrons, which could be used to separate fissionable material from ordinary uranium.”
@toothfairy. Thanks for the source. From your source first paragraph.
However, the military commitment wasn’t backed with adequate resources, and the Japanese effort to an atomic bomb had made little progress by the end of the war.
I agree with all of the posts concerning why we should have dropped the bomb to end the war, but the reason was not because they were close to developing their own A-bomb.
@delh#18:
I never suggested it was. You said you “had never heard Japan was working on a nuclear device,” and you wanted sources to prove they were. Now that I give you a source, you want to reframe your argument. 🙄
@delh#18: My last comment seems to be lost in spam, so here we go again.
No one ever suggested it was. Coastal Eddie simply stated they were “working on a nuclear device of their own.” You demanded sources because you had never “heard Japan was working on a nuclear device.” When I give you a source, you try to reframe your argument to assuage your ego. At least we can agree on your comment in #10: “But then to some facts only get in the way.”
“After Japan surrendered on 15 August 1945, the occupying US Army found five Japanese cyclotrons, which could be used to separate fissionable material from ordinary uranium.”
Whoever wrote that linked article seems to have confused cyclotrons with centrifuges. Cyclotrons are electromagnetic particle accelerators. They’re primarily research tools. They can’t be used to produced weapons-grade nuclear material.
There was confusion on this point right after the war, too. Japanese biological and medical research cyclotrons were destroyed and dumped into Tokyo bay, even though they had nothing to do with the production of nuclear weapons.
Present-day Japan could assemble a nuclear arsenal very quickly, if they were of a mind to. They’d certainly have no problem with delivery systems. This past June, the Japanese returned a space vehicle to Earth after having landed it on an asteroid. A Japanese probe has been orbiting the Moon since 2007.
Coastal Eddie:
Also the 300,000 civilians of Nanjing or the 100,000 civilians of Manila.
I wonder if they mourn those folks?
Here is some info about what the Japanese planned, had we invaded instead of dropping the bombs.
http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/arens/chap4.htm
Additionally, many don’t know, that even after dropping both A-bombs, the Japanese War Cabinet still refused to surrender. It was only because of the Emperor’s intervention that they did.
If the Japanese want to weep, let them weep for the Rape of Nanking, where their fathers and brothers bayonetted helpless infants.
My father was to be one of those in the invasion forces. There were real possibilities that he would not have survived, and I would not be here. Instead, he spent the rest of his time in the military as a part of the occupation forces.
His stories about what that was like are so interesting. Like he was there for at least 2 months before he saw a woman because they were afraid their women would be attacked so the Japanese hid them. Because he was stationed not far from Hiroshima they were not allowed to drink anything that was available locally . . . like water unless it was tested and proven unaffected.
The lack of food was rampant there so those who were on KP would package up food they had made (and they always made more than necessary) so the Japanese who scoured trash bins could get the food without it being useless. Some would take full meals out to the people standing near mess halls.
Before my Dad left, things were much more normal. When he got there, building were burning and it was horrifying. When he left, rebuilding was underway.
He was also in the general’s band. He got to play under the conduction of John Phillip Souza. He also got to play with the Queen’s Drum and Buggle Corps when they visited from England. They would give free concerts for the people on a regular basis.
When we were in Honolulu once, we went to the Punchbowl. It is quite an impressive military cemetery. There were busloads of tourists from Japan. I am fairly sure that the wise Japanese understand that they started the war, and the US did what they had to do to end it.
Most historians who have an ounce of truth in them will tell you that more would have died had the US had to invade than by the dropping of those 2 bombs.
Also for those who weep for the Japanese condition after the 2 bombings should have spent time with a father of someone with whom I graduated high school. His father survived the Bataan Death March and then spent the rest of the war working in the naval yards in Japan. My friend never knew what had happened to him. Had no idea until we studied the Death March in high school. He recognized the word “Bataan” and knew his father was in some way attached to it. So, he had to ask his father. His father only affirmed that he was on the march. That was it, and would not talk more about it.
He knew his parents met when his mother was his father’s nurse while he was hospitalized for 2 years after returning to the US after the war. He knew his father was a prisoner of war. That is all he knew. His parents would not talk about it.
His father was never very healthy and did not live a normal length of life. He died way too young because he just was too damaged.
So, those who sympathize with the Japanese will never get any support from me.
Toothfairy @ 17,19,20
It would appear that I have hit some sensitive tooth with you on my posts. I am not sure how you deduced my ego status and how I re framed my argument. Perhaps the magic toothfairy wand is working overtime?
Let’s briefly recap what we have been talking back and forth about. I simply gave a caution to coastal eddie concerning his statement that Japan was working on a nuclear device of their own. Remember that the thread that Wordsmith started was on reasons for why we should have dropped the A-bomb. My reason for that cautionary statement was that whether or not Japan was working on a nuclear device had nothing to do with our decision to drop the 2 A-bombs we had in our total inventory at that time. And more importantly there is no evidence that they were actively working on a nuclear device.
You then posted a source which waffled a bit, first stating they had a nuclear program to develop such a device but then stating that it never really got funded or made any progress. I do not believe your source adds any credible evidence that as coastal eddie states –they were actively working on a nuclear device.
Then you cite from the article that at the end of the war Japan had 5 cyclotrons which they could use to separate fissionable material from uranium. This statement from the article gives the article even less credibility. Cyclotrons have existed since 1932 for doing nuclear physics experiments, but are totally useless for separating fissionable material from uranium for weapons use. Should we bomb every university that has a cyclotron because we think they are developing nuclear devices?
—–
Uses of the cyclotron
For several decades, cyclotrons were the best source of high-energy beams for nuclear physics experiments; several cyclotrons are still in use for this type of research.
Cyclotrons can be used to treat cancer. Ion beams from cyclotrons can be used, as in proton therapy, to penetrate the body and kill tumors by radiation damage, while minimizing damage to healthy tissue along their path.
Cyclotron beams can be used to bombard other atoms to produce short-lived positron-emitting isotopes suitable for PET imaging.
——
How you jump from here to accusing me of trying to reframe my argument to assuage my ego is an interesting leap.
The facts in my mind are that Roosevelt started the Manhattan Project because of fears that the Germans were embarking on a nuclear program to develop a nuclear device. Ironically the 3 nuclear devices developed from that project were not ready until after Germany surrendered. One of the devices was tested at the Trinity site to make sure it would work. That left 2 devices ready to use and with too little fissionable material available for several months before a third device could be made. So Trumen’s decision was based on the hope that by dropping the 2 A-bombs that we had, (and knowing that the enemy did not know how many more were available) that there was a chance that it would move Japan to surrender. The terrible option left if that did not work was the planned invasion of Japan and the projected loss of millions of lives. Many know first hand of those who were already being moved into position for that invasion.
Given those facts, whether or not Japan had an active program to develop a nuclear device had zero influence on that decision. Even if Japan had not surrendered, the invasion of that tiny island nation would have quickly put a stop to any such program or development.
Sorry that the exchange has gotten out of hand. No hard feelings on my part.
I have talked with many Pacific vets, have several who are relatives, and served under some, this commentary helps explain their relative silence…………………
My Dad, a Bataan Death March Survivor, 4 years in Camp O’Donnell, Japanese POW camp. Mined coal for Mitsubitshi as slave labor.
Freed and survived only because of the bomb and the President Truman’s courage and wisdon to use it.
I flew over Tinian once, looked down at the overgrown old runway, and thanked God for the Enola Gay, without which I would have never been born.
We have been the most generous nation in victory that the world has ever known.
Every single Japanese should also thank God it was us who defeated them.
Perhaps someday again we will learn what it takes to win wars.
The Big Boo
@The Original: My dad was on a Coast Guard destroyer escort that went with the Merchant Marine ships hauling war goods to different war zones. He might have escorted some of the stuff to your dad.
I think what is going on now in Japan is the same thing going on in the USA. The leaders of Japan want to make it a dictatorship like it used to be and they want to be the rulers. You start with brainwashing the kids in schools and with the media. If the Japanese media is like our propaganda media, then they will go along with the leaders.
Hopefully enough of the citizens of Japan will use the Internet and sights like Flopping Aces to find out what is really going on around the world. My eyes have been opened wide sine I discovered the Internet and FA.
@Delh #27:
No, the thread was about the U.S. sending a representative — for the first time — to the anniversary of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima. Wordsmith made it clear that, although he did not believe we had anything to apologize for, “this does not mean we cannot express compassion for those who were victims of what was necessary at the time to win and shorten the war; and extend compassion to the family members who mourn their loss.”
That said, however, we are mostly in agreement here — “we should have dropped the bomb to end the war.”
Thank you for taking the time to clarify your position. I truly appreciate it and there are no hard feelings on my part, either.
@The Big Boo: “Every single Japanese should also thank God it was us who defeated them.”
I never thought about it that way before. They could have been speaking German right now.
“Perhaps someday again we will learn what it takes to win wars.”
I am sure you will agree with me that I would rather have the USA known as the country that will destroy any of its enemies so that they know it would be best not to start the fight in the first place. The liberal democrats and propaganda media don’t want that.
@Smorgasbord “the liberal democrats and proaganda media don’t want that”.
I wish it was only that. The entrenched stupidity of foolish foreign policy affects all current Republicans as well as Democrats. George W’s rules of engagement doomed us to failure in Iraq, just as Obummer’s will for Afganistan. In truth we really don’t know what the …..we are doing (pretty much anywhere). Out top military brass, likewise as dumb as bricks.
And we, as Americans, have no understanding of foreign cultures. Never have. Now, those cultures will become ours.
Given the vast degree of disease that has infected all major American institutions, I’d say the Republic is doomed. But I hate waxing optimistic.
The Big Boo
@The Big Boo: I have never understood how almost all of the media and schools have turned so liberal an anti-American. The only thing I can figure out is other countries have done like we have and are trying to infiltrate our government, schools, churches, civic organizations, etc. to turn the public against our way of life, and it’s working.
The vaccine to stop the spread of this disease is called the “Truth.” How to inject it into the USA’s bloodstream is the problem. One way is conservative blogs like FA. They are doing their best to save the patient.