The Narrative

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(CBS) When it comes to terrorism and extremism, intelligence agencies in the U.S. and Europe have been grappling with the bewildering phenomenon: that a surprisingly large number of Islamic radicals are relatively well off and well-educated Westerners.

To look into this, we recently went to Great Britain, where there are more supporters of al Qaeda than anywhere else in the West.

In London we met a British Muslim, Maajid Nawaz, who told us that what is turning so many of his countrymen into radicals is something called the “narrative,” that says the United States is out to destroy Islam.

It’s an ideology Islamic radicals subscribe to.

We asked Nawaz, a former true believer: exactly what is the narrative?

For those who choose to attack Islam as a whole and not temper their attacks to be surgically aimed at the radicals, militants, and terrorists, you undermine this man’s attempts at winning hearts and minds. You give validity to “the Narrative” and give ammunition to the Jihad Movement.

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i wish this man the best of luck in his efforts, and i am glad that he trying.

the middle east has been being brain-washed for YEARS and YEARS, even before most americans knew that there was a “middle east”. i was in the middle east in 1979 and i
encountered extreme anti-americanism – complete with the little satan/big satan rhetoric.
it will take many years to undo the brainwashing.

of course, of note is that the muslims have been anti-christian, anti-hindu and anti-judaism for YEARS and YEARS and YEARS, yet they are suddenly sooooooooooooooooooo offended when the west starts to verbalize anti-muslim sentiments. what goes around comes around – another lesson that might bear teaching in the middle east.

If it wasn’t this particular “narrative” it would by necessity be another. Islam must have an enemy. Mohammed himself took turns demonizing every group of his victims, until they either converted or he killed them.

It is against Islamic law to coexist with another religion if one is in the position to make Islam superior. THAT is the reason the Jihadis fight….They see an opportunity in our weakness and obfuscation.

Notice how it is only America out to “destroy Islam”…Except that in China, the government actually forbids mosques. Yet no words at all about them, let alone terrorism.

Islam’s enemy is Freedom. We (and the West) represent that freedom. Yet even if we and Israel vanished off the planet, and only Moslem’s were left, they would be in a civil war with each other, as they have done many times in the past when they’ve run out of local enemies.

I will continue dissing that horrific cult, and I don’t give a damn if they get upset. They kill more co-cultists than they do their proclaimed enemy, yet there’s no outrage in Islamhood over that..

This man is simply providing yet another re-direct away from the elephant in the room.

wordsmith – you make very good points, and i, like you, know many nonviolent muslims.
however, they are also SILENT muslims, and in their silence they are aiding and abetting their violent brethern. additionally, should push come to shove, i have NO DOUBT but to who’s side they would run.

i do not believe that there are very many “moderate” muslims – there are active and there are passive muslims. we would like to believe that there are moderate muslims – i just don’t see very many!!!!

Good to see someone standing up for the right thing but I believe his time is short. Seems like anyone who stands against this “religion” tends to shorten their lifespan considerably. Of all the major religions, Islam is the only one that has not had a reformation of one form or another.

Seventh century ideology is totally incompatible with western culture and ideology. Hell, it was incompatible with most ideology even in the seventh century and hasn’t changed one bit since. If this guy thinks he can change the minds of 1.7(?) billion followers, I say good luck but I have my doubts.

So here’s my “narrative”:

If you have moved to a western nation and want to live in the 21rst century, worship as you like but don’t try to force it on your host. Assimilate, learn the culture of your host nation, quit glorifying a pedophile murderer, get a sense of humor, take off the hijab or burkha, do something to contribute to the society in which you reside instead of playing the victim over every perceived slight to your religion or “prophet”. Understand that in the U.S. at least, we have the freedom to disagree and there is no Constitutional guarantee against being offended. Threatening to kill everyone that disagrees with you is NOT the way to win hearts and minds here. (or anywhere else for that matter) Take advantage of the freedom and opportunity that this country presents, not just the freebies.

If you are willing to do those things and quit listening to the anti-American rhetoric preached in your mosques and if you truly disagree with the “radicals” among you, stand up and be heard.
You will find that especially in the U.S. you will be welcomed with open arms. Not much can be done about islam in the middle east but here in the U.S. this is what you MUST do to change the perception of your “religion of peace”. Actions speak louder than words.

If you’re NOT willing to do these things and you’re not happy with the freedom that is afforded you here then I suggest you pack your shit and return to the sand pit or rockpile you came from. You and we will all be much the happier for it I’m sure.

Patvann:

FYI, China does not forbid mosques. There is a huge Muslim population in China and none are forbidden to worship as they see fit. There are beautiful mosques throughout China and one can find Muslim food in any large city across China. China does, however, take strict and draconian measures against any group that challenges Beijing for power.

There is a small group of Uygars who are trying to start their own “narrative” out west (Xinjiang Province). Unfortunately, the Muslims in that part of China “makes Buddhists look like war mongers.” I can attest to this statement as I have traveled among the Uygars.

My “gut feeling” is that a lot of Muslims around the world are secretly cheering the terrorists and that Western civilization loses. Something about their religion that makes me think that.

Crusade Est. 1099

“It seems to me a certainty that the fatalistic teachings of Mohammed and the utter degradation of the Arab women are the outstanding causes for the arrested development of the Arab. He is exactly as he was around the year 700, while we have been developing.”

Gen. George S. Patton

Seems he had the right idea like 50ish years ago.

“But you stand to alienate those Muslims who are not radicals to run into the loving embrace of their violent brethren. You validate all the conspiracy theories floating around in the Middle East that Americans are out to subjugate them.”

I live in NYC-when the WTC was bombed killing six people in 1993 I did not think too much about Islam or Muslims since everything was swept under the media carpet.

Then the second larger attack eight years later killing three thousand people on 9/11/2001 my awareness grew to the hideous fact that no matter what I said or did the fact remains just because I am an American I would be portrayed the CAUSE of Islamic terrorism rather than a victim.

Now nine years later after the second attack I continue to be blamed as the cause of Islamic terrorism just because I am an American

Comedy Central received one death threat over the use of the word ‘M*hammed’, submitted to the threat by banning the word. Jon Stewart must grateful that he and his fellow comedians who earn millions of $$$ perpetually ridiculing and mocking Christians did not go the way of Theo van Gogh who was stabbed to death for making a movie about Islam. Lucky Jon Stewart and his rich Hollywood Comedy Canal spewing out doo-doo for all the world to love and adore.

On the other hand: one would think that after the last seventeen years of assaults, attacks and threats that at the very least 1 billion Muslims out of the 1.5 billion would take a greater stand against the ‘radicals’ who are ruining their peaceful religion.

So Wordsmith, from now on I guess I should just take your Comedy Central advice so that 1.5 billion Muslims will NEVER EVER feel offended again, I will make it a point to always say America is the cause of Islamic terrorism so deserving of Death.

I must admit however, that it is odd 1.5 billion Muslims have zero control over a ‘few Islamic terrorists’ yet every Western media venue from news to entertainment is now forbidden to make any reference to ‘M*hammed’

That said; I will Never Forget these famous words spoken just a couple of years ago by Mayor Bloomberg “terrorism? what terrorism! GO get a life” which was said just after a plot to blow up Queens, NY was discovered.

By the way Wordsmith, should I thank you now for helping ‘the good guys’ kill me just because I am an American or should I wait until the next attack?

We don’t need to declare war on 1.5 billion muslims. Islam once it had conquered the Arabian peninnsula through it’s written doctrine and its actions declared war on the rest of humanity. Don’t kid yourselves, Islam has been at war with western civilization for 1400 years, whether we want to admit it or not.

Patvann is right. If it wasn’t “the narrative” it would be some other excuse.

I’m not comedy central but I have received 100’s of death threats for my Islamic Satire website http://www.builditez.com/sites/allahrock read the comments section… I began my research into Islam after 9-11. It is a violent religion and I can say unequivocalby… their God is not my God and it’s damn time we quit being cowed by their violent response to any criticism of their ideology. They can threaten me all they like… it only increases my resolve I will not be censored nor cowed.

If you learn more about Islamic history and its spread you find that Islam is very adept at using emmigration as a tool of conquest.

If this is the case, then what are the 1.5 billion minus a few million doing sitting on their asses not picking up the their AK-47’s, RPGs, and homicide vests against every westerner and apostate in sight?

They begin as peaceful immigrants, when their numbers swell to a certain point they begin demanding sharia law, this practice is becoming all to apparent to european countries that welcomed muslims with open arms. They will soon be under seige. I never said they were stupid people… it’s not exactly smart to engage in open armed conflict until the numbers reach a critical mass.

You say… my interpretation of the Qu’ran… I can read, I’ve read it in its entirety. I know what it says and there is no mistaking it’s violent nature or what it admonishes of its adherents. HAVE YOU READ THE QU’RAN? My bet is you have not.

As far as narrative goes… Islam’s stated goal of global domination and subjugation of all people under sharia law requires no narrative at all on our part. It is written in their doctrine.

I will say this though… your analogy of muslims as roaches was probably not very well thought out if your goal is to not inflame. You will find a great deal on my feelings about muslims on the “seriously” page of my satire site. My beef is with Islam as a doctrine not muslims per se. Muslims are simply people, and we know that people get duped into believing all kinds of trash. Look at how many people were duped into voting for Obama!

By the way… you use the terms fundamentalist and extremist, the only difference between a fundamentalist and an extremist is that an extremist has acted in a violent way on the fundamental doctrine espoused by the Qu’ran

My appologies for anyone trying to access the comments section on my Islamic Satire site… Its been several years since I’ve been there or updated it and apparently the comments have disappeared. I’ll see what i can do to get them back up there.

One of the problems the West has… is also one of the blindspots I see many “bloggers” making.

You speak of a Religion as if it HAS to make sense. You try to rationalize their behaviour. You ask for their behaviour to make sense (by Western standards) when the behaviour stems from a religious mandate.

When it comes to matters of indoctrinated faith.. Rationality often goes right out the window.

I posed a question to you… which wasn’t how many anti-Islamic diatribes you had read but rather, have you read the Qu’ran? Your failure to answer that specific query prompts me to assume that you have not. Might I suggest that if you want to have an informed viewpoint, you get your information first hand and take the time to read the document. Until you know exactly what is written and the context, you will always be espousing a viewpoint formulated from interpretation filtered through other people’s biases.

Concerning your analogy… I “get” your point. I hope you get mine. We do share some common ground in that I believe we both consider Muslims as people first. However, I would not equate them to roaches as you did. That was an error in your choice of words.

“Terror movements like al Qaeda are pulling their theology from more than just what is writ/interpreted/extracted from the Koran.”

If the answer is this simple then why are some 1 billion ‘moderate’ Muslims of the 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide buying into “what is turning so many of his countrymen into radicals is something called the “narrative,” that says the United States is out to destroy Islam says that America is out to subjugate”.

And, more irrationally, continues to believe the “narrative” after seventeen years of their Muslim brothers and sister committing terrorist activities in America and around the world?

Knowing that their own book of peaceful faith is being violated by their own faithful members who use their faith as a violent weapon, one would easy imagine a much larger percentage of Muslims pointing out the Koran to their Muslim brothers and sisters of the al Qaeda and like terror movements that their Jihad ‘Death to America’ in the Name of Allah is NOT the faith of their Peaceful religion.

Personally, I believe the last 40 years of Kingdom Hollywood Entertainment pimping out their ‘Hate America” brainwashing useful idiot trash is the reason why Muslims buy the “narrative,” that says the United States is out to destroy Islam says that America is out to subjugate” but this is a topic for another day.

ISN’t TRUE that if you are accepted gracefully in AMERICA; as to earn your papers of the proof that you are an AMERICAN citizen; does’nt give you the right to threaten others AMERICANS because they applyed their right to freedom of speech, according to the laws of this land,not others of your previous countrys,which come second in your life,and must not be used to rules the lifes of any other in your new NATION that has given you a new way of life of freedom for all.

@ilovebeeswarzone:

Spot on bees! I might add, Americans don’t take threats of ANY kind from ANYONE very well. King George III learned that lesson beginning in 1775 and Hitler, Tojo and Mussolini learned it in the 1940s. Once again, my suggestion to those on our shores who would threaten any American citizen:

If you don’t like it here……..GTFO.

VANZORGE;too many are called’the sleepers”and others are too scare of the extremists that have a death wish on them,so why don’t the braves in thoses community stand up to defeat the extremists;it is their responsability to do it to protect the country who gave them shelter from radicalist from where they live before;THE problem i find how come the immigration representatives be allowed to help radicals to seth foot in this country and remain even as they learn of the radical instinct of thoses?.

Couple of points here.
A moderate Muslim is one whose view of Islam is about halfway between the view of the fanatic and the view of the slacker. Whether that makes a moderate Muslim “moderate” in our sense is another question. The two are independent of each other.
One of Maj. Hasan’s mosque buddies said Hasan did the right thing, since Americans are killing Muslims. This is a mosque in Texas, btw.
You will note that Muslims can kill each other wholesale without generating outrage amongst other Muslims. Let somebody do a cartoon, or let Newsweek fake up a Koran desecration story and it’s Katy bar the door. If you don’t understand why that is…you don’t understand much.
The Not In Our Name demonstrations after Beslan????
The silent Muslim…does he drop a dime if he hears of a terror plot, or does Islamic solidarity trump that requirement of good citizenship?
There was a Muslim in Tulsa several years ago who wrote an op-ed in the local paper suggesting Muslims give up violent jihad.
He was thrown out of the mosque, threatened with violence, and wasn’t allowed to return until he apologized.
Now, if his mosque buddies were “moderate” in our sense, they’d have pulled out, rented a building someplace for prayers until they could build their own place. Christian congregations split like that all the time. I haven’t been able to find if that happened. Anybody know? If not, why not?
A kid in the local high school’s senior Spanish class–daughter of Saudi professionals–asked to be excused from doing something regarding el Cid because it demeaned her faith. A thousand-years-dead mercenary fighting in the petty dynastic quarrels of Spain has something to do with her faith? Where did she learn that? That’s a rhetorical question. The Christian equivalent, if there is such a thing, would be finding somebody named Godwinson whose primary goal in life is to get his family back on the throne of England, from which they were ejected by Wiliam of Normandy in 1066.
Point is, there is no equivalent. To insist that Islam fit our view of religion is a waste of time.

RIDE A PALE HORSE:hi,you say it better than me , bye 🙄

muslims have been killing hindus in india for decades.
muslims have been killing phillipinos for years and years.
muslims have driven the christians out of turkey, egypt, and lebanon.

none of the above have anything to do with america. america is just the latest and greatest target.

“the narrative” for muslims has always been the same “kill ____________” – you fill in the blank

Bottom line, if you will allow a point to be made, this discussion it is about Terrorism, Domestic or Foreign. It is about acceptance of Sharia by “Westerners”. It is about extremism of the variety that resulted in events like the USS Cole bombing, the bombing of Embassies in Africa, 9.11.01, the Oklahoma City bombing, the bombing of the Marine Barracks in Lebanon, the London bombings, genocide and mass graves in Serbia/Bosnia/Herzegovina that I have seen.

It is about the murders at Ft. Hood, the Recruiting Station shootings in Little Rock and the undie and shoe bombing episodes, the Lockerbie Aircraft Bombing and other senseless acts of violence such as Honor Killings in the US and in the Middle East that define the arguments that I am reading here. It is about Taliban Residue that are killed and captured daily in my current neck of the woods.

Extremism is live and well on both Foreign and Domestic fronts. It is about the survival of non extremist populations world wide vs the extremists world wide.

Will the US embrace Sharia? No way. We have the bill of Rights, the Constitution, Women can own property, run businesses, vote, get an education and All US States do not allow Marriages or Sexual Activity between minors and adults. Terrorists of any stripe should be hunted down and ‘stopped’ world wide.

Extreme Violence in the name of any “religion”, “cult” or “political aim” is Criminal. Criminals need to be punished to the most extreme means available.

This is not the Middle ages. If Islam cannot evolve I do not have to accept it’s legitimacy. If US Domestic Terrorists cannot evolve, they deserve the Death Sentence. Those who preach, fund or promote hate do not deserve the liberty to run loose on the streets in any Nation.

Immigrate to another Ones Country for any reason, expect to be subject to the Laws in Place or be sent back to your Country of Origin with no re-entry possible. Coming to another Country must involve total acceptance of Laws and Customs there. The First Amendment guarantees Freedoms, Freedom of Religion included but if Your Religion includes Honor Killings, Pedophilia, Human Sacrifice or some other nonsense…stay where Your God put You!

Come to My Country with ill will or violence in mind, be prepared to suffer very dire consequences. In my years of Service I have visited Nations that had a wide variety of Religions
which I respected. Some of those Nations were intolerant of my Christian Faith but I neither flaunted it or demeaned theirs. I was usually sent because Order, Diplomacy and Civil Governments had failed or Internationally Recognized Crimes were being sourced from there.
In Bosnia I defended Muslims. In the Philippines I defended the right to exist of many faiths.
I have been sent on NATO Missions as well as support for US Allies that were threatened by Terror.

This is my last War. I’m getting too old for this business. When I get back to Montana I plan on resuming ranching and not having to repel boarders or be subject to Foreign Laws or Invaders with Religious or Cultural axes to grind. I will refuse to live under any repressive US Government as well.

OLDTROOPER:thank you for the words of wisdom;it touch the soul where it is needed most, bye 🙄

That’s OT and he doesn’t shoot from the hip, he shoots from the shoulder with deadly accuracy! Right on OT, one of the best comments in a long time!

Skookum 😉

I can also spit a stream of Red Man chew with accuracy to almost 10 meters. But not in Mixed Company or in front of Children.

And the debate on Islam continues.

I have known many Muslims in the last 18 years in Southeast Asia and China. In Thailand, many students were Muslims. Whenever I begin to doubt the humanity of Muslim I think of such students as Saad from Bangladesh or the lovely young lady from Turkey who wore a head covering at the Catholic university I taught at. I also think of the teacher from Iran who was almost violently opposed to Islam (he denounced it when the Shah was disposed by who he referred to as frauds) and the accounting teacher from Iraq. They are human beings with all the baggage that make us humans. Also Mark from Pakistan with his Pakistani/British accent who was a PhD student in economics. Why do I mention these friends? We can only interact on the individual level and it really does not matter what we think about the group. I believe “the narrative” is garbage and made up by people who have never interacted on a personal level with Westerners. The Narrative will exist no matter what we say or do. We cannot change it. The only input we have is to treat everyone like we want to be treated. I believe this because I have really good friends who are Muslims. I do not subjugate my friends.

When my wife and I made our Silk Road trip back in 2005 in a rented car and two Chinese drivers, we were told by our drivers to tell everyone we were Canadian (I went into detail why this was unacceptable). Muslims hate Americans, they said. Muslims are not good people, so they said. How wrong they were! When we arrived in Kashgar, I asked the drivers (who had never been that far west) what they had enjoyed the most so far. They both said – the people. Xinjiang Province has the most hospitable people I have ever met and they were over 80% Muslim. Kinda makes one change his or her mind in a hurry.

Still reading their religious book does make one have a “gut feeling” that something is not right with the religion.

All the murderous practices of Islam that we see came from Mohammad. I doubt that anyone who claims to be a muslim can renounce the violence Mohammad practiced, not if they know what the Quran and Venerated Narrations on Mohammad’s life say.

“Besides any conspiratorial propaganda coming from the Middle East, all they need do is go to the latest Hollywood flick or open up the NYTimes to see how badly America is treating Muslims and oppressing the world at large.”

We are in agreement; the world is taught to hate us because all they see and hear is the agit-propaganda created by Hollywood’s Useful Idiots.

My question is why do we Americans continue to finance and idol worship an “entertainment” industry which is overtly and systemically both teaching the world to hate us and to hate ourselves?

Are we a Nation of people so addicted to our “entertainment” that we would rather junk ourselves full of agit-propaganda than give up this ‘opiate of the masses’ drug so that something better can be created?

Just how many Americans HAD to see Avatar yet would never for a moment consider themselves a major component of the agit-propagandist problem?

“It just entertainment” says the audience member in their attempt to convince themselves that they are innocent participants of an agit-propagandizing system which pollutes the world with hate, destruction, division and conflict.

Never throw the baby out with the bathwater. Reliance on stereotypes will get us nowhere.

All three major religions of “the book” have on record, acts of violence and atrocities performed by those who followed it, (as have many other religions.) To say that they are all violent religions based on what is written in their tomes and in historical accounts is an unfair analysis. It is not the religion in general that performed these acts, but only some individuals within it. Remember that those who did not perform said acts are innocent. I will accept that peace loving innocent worshipers should cry out against these acts of villainy, but I understand that they might not because of fear that the violent element around them may turn on them as well. It is disappointing, but we are not in their shoes. I think it rather comparable to people who live in neighborhoods plagued with street gangs, as they and these hirabists are organized and operate in similar manner.

Rather than ranting and railing against some racial or religious stereotypes, I think it is more productive to focus on the despicable hirabists, murderous fanatics, the terrorists.

I have absolutely no problem with the peaceful worshipers of any religion, except when they act like bigots. (The same goes for Atheists, whom have their fair share of zealots and bigots.)

DITTO:hi, I wonder what name would be given to whoever acertaine a death threat to the cartoonist;surely it is an crime,that demand an arrest,is’nt it; bye 🙄

OLD TROOPER:on your 32,i am wondering if you can do it with the “wink”at the same time?.bye 🙄

ilovebeeswarzone, Yes Ms. Bees, I can but not in polite company so You will never be able to witness that feat.

@Old Trooper:

Thanks for sharing OT, your comments are treasures from the Stans IMHO. What makes it even better is knowing you are also sharing with our young men serving beside you, more thanks! Not forgetting the outstanding daughter you raised that is also serving our country, most appreciated.

I think about all the folks at FA while out in the gardens, a lot of what is shared in here compares to the beauty that surrounds me, you guys remain faceless, but you are still beautiful. I read through every morning before heading out, would list my favorite members but that would be naughty.

Take care! When can we start putting the x’s on the calendar for your return to your Montana? That surely would inspire someone to change her calendars from April to May? 😳 been busy. 😳

A lot of people are surprised that even some college educated people are joining these radical organizations. Going to collage will probably make you smarter than you would be if you hadn’t gone however, that does not mean going to college will make you smart.

OLD TROOPER
WE ARE looking up for your return,
best to you may GOD HOLD YOU IN THE PALM OF HIS HAND,
FOR WHAT HEROIC ACTIONS, YOU GAVE YOUR LIFE FOR,