Hoffman’s Numbers Rising While Newt Makes Huge Mistake; Update – Gov Pataki Endorses Hoffman

Newt is an errand boy for the RNC on this one, as to gain points for a 2012- why else would he go down with the ship like this? He’s not that principled or loyal, he’s stuck in a situation of his own doing, tho- likely made some agreement that he surely now regrets, especially since he’s been caught lying about the RNC not choosing Scozzafava- and his credibility damaged.

Gingrich would have had to be hiding in a cave to have missed the message of the TEA party movement… makes me think he’s acting in the service of party grandees, and the deal is that he fights this one out till the bitter end…

But with him pissing-off conservatives like this, I’d say Newt’s toast- I sure won’t ever take him seriously again.

When I first heard that Newt was supporting the “Republican” candidate, Scozzafava, I wrote him an email and asked him to justify his actions. This is the response I got back:

——————————————————-
Thank you for writing.

Newt believes the New York 23 special election is a test of whether we respect local parties and local leaders.

There were four local GOP meetings in the 23rd district to decide who the party would nominate. Hoffman and Scozzafava competed in all four. Dede Scozzafava is an elected state representative from the largest county in the district who understands local issues. Doug Hoffman, who does not live in the district, did not finish in the top three in a single meeting. Not surprisingly, the district Republicans picked Scozzafava as their top pick in all four meetings.

Considering it was such a unanimous decision, Newt believes the threshold for the national conservative establishment to try and override their decision ought to be very high.

While there are clearly areas where Dede Scozzafava is not a conservative, there are many areas where she is: she is endorsed by the National Rifle Association, signed the Taxpayer Protection Pledge, supports keeping the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts permanent, voted against the Governor’s big-spending, tax increase budget, opposes the health care plan being pushed for by President Obama and Nancy Pelosi, opposes cap and trade and energy tax increases, favors an all of the above energy plan that includes more domestic oil and natural gas drilling, and will vote against Nancy Pelosi and for John Boehner for Speaker.

In addition to this fundamental question about respecting local leadership, and not assuming we know better than people who actually live in the district what is best for them, there is also a grave danger in this NY 23 race of establishing the precedent that every faction of the Republican Party can run a third party candidate if they lose a primary or a nominating process. That is a clear road to reelecting President Obama and making Nancy Pelosi Speaker for life. This will only lead to Left-wing government that will harm the country.

Remember, when Newt became Speaker of the House it was in part because Republicans swept the 1993 elections. Three of the four Republican winners that year were moderates – significantly to the left of the conservative Republican base: Riordan was elected mayor of Los Angeles, Whitman as governor of New Jersey, and Giuliani as mayor of New York. George Allen, a conservative, was elected as governor of Virginia.

Furthermore, many of the Republicans elected in the 1994 landslide were moderates, including Nancy Johnson, Tom Campbell, Jim Leach, Chris Shays, Jan Myer, and Jennifer Dunn. They all signed the Contract with America and this coalition of Republicans passed Welfare reform, sealed the fate of HillaryCare, supported NAFTA, passed the first tax cut in 16 years, an increase in defense and intelligence spending, and (despite a Clinton veto that shut down the government) a four-year balanced budget.

In other words, support from moderate Republican elected officials enabled conservative governance, it did not prevent it. This is a lesson we should keep in mind to counter the impulse to force out from the Republican Party anyone who is to the left of conservatives on some issues.

Thank you again for writing and letting us know how you feel.

Here is a link to some recent interviews Newt has had on the topic if you want to know more:
http://newt.org/tabid/193/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/4604/Default.aspx

Sincerely,
The Newt.org… Team
——————————————————-

I suppose I can see what they’re trying to say, but I disagree with his decision. If the Republican party continues to support candidates who claim to be Republican but do not represent core Republican values the party will cease to be a valid party.

Well I’ll add that Newt really never struck me as a real conservative …. EVEN back in ‘94. He’s a politician first. I remember him not really agreeing with Reagan on stuff before WJC was elected. Newt struck me as full of himself and though surely a good guy and lead well initially, fundamentally failed conservatives after the GOP took control of Congress. A lot of bluster and this and that, but on the big things that could really changed things, he was a politician first and it showed.

I understand ALL leaders in Congress have to do this to a point… it’s the only way, but the Tea Party movement taps into the anti-Washington sentiment that even Newt was guilty of and obviously still is.

Top down, big government, not small and neutered like what Reagan preached and tried to proclaim. Too much of the seeds for the stock boom/bust and easy money fiascos from the late 90’s happened or were allowed to under Newt or his immediate successors.

Newt showed his colors on this and I’m glad. He expresses the big-tent GOP theme… the theme that has so ruined the GOP with squishy RINO candidates shooting for the middle.

I fear a large class in the 2012 cycle of Huckabee/Newt/McCain-like RINO’s who will pitch the big tent ideas and fight the real GOP conservatives as Palin, Pawlenty, and Jindal. It’s 1979 all over again and the best candidate(s)s are going to have to fight the middlers ….. see Reagan vs Bush 41 and vs Dole , etc.

Reagan was truly an outlier in the GOP… before him and afterwards, they kept shooting for the big-tent, big government “middle” and undecided independents at the expense of conservative values and a small federal government. ” who’s turn is it to get support this time? ” Screw that!

2010 will be a watershed election year for the Tea Party Movement and it will be interesting to see if true conservatives can stand for something and get the GOP to stop being so stupid.

savage24, Newt & Nancy as couch potatoes, hanging with Brother Al, endorsing Scozzafava and not Hoffman. No thanks Newt. No more RINOs, no more Moderates that can’t respect or represent my Values or win Margaret Sanger Awards from those that slay the unborn in the womb.

Newt went off the reservation and is batting zero and playing left field. He does not understand what Americans don’t want or need that was made clear during the Summer Congress recess by angry Voters and Taxpayers. I left the Republican Party years ago when Fiscal Discipline went away, a failure to Impeach Clinton for Perjury by the Republican Senators, NAFTA got passage and Immigration Laws were not enforced.

I am a Conservative and not bipartisan in any fashion. Newt and others betrayed my faith and trust. Fred Thompson, who I admired for his role in Watergate was a non candidate in 08 and I cannot support but a handful of folks on either side of the aisle. Sarah Palin was a breath of fresh air but ran with McCain who I cannot support. A 30+ year old war record and a history of spending too much time on Teddy Kennedy’s lap does not a President make. Period.

At this point Newt disgusts me. McCain pandered too much to “Moderates” and as I was recalled to Active Duty because the DOD Professionals are circling the wagons to attempt to do more with less and Our Pretender in Chief took Sen. John “4 month tour in RVN” Kerry on as an advisor. The Christmas in Cambodia Dude that threw his unearned medals away. Oh and that clown Axlerod is furnishing “sound wisdom” to our Sophomoric CIC. What a winning combination!

Iraq is heating up, AF/PAK is on fire and Obama plays golf more in his 10 Months than GWB did in 8 years. “Doing More With Less” is my mandate. Just my opinion and best Professional Judgment stated here. Realities are pretty grim both on the Foreign Policy and Domestic Policy fronts.

It is time for America to realize that they chose poorly and punish those that serve them poorly and Vote the rascals out. Newt is the last guy I’d listen to right now. With the lack of a Wartime President, a Congress that is throwing Your Tax Dollars down a sinkhole, Commanders and Troops waiting for direction on the other side of the World and Allies that feel betrayed, what is not to like?

And Newt remains what he is, sadly so.

ccoffer:

Then he should have just STFU and stayed out of it altogether. His “associations”, like those of the Zero in chief distress me.

Now….he’s just a different kind of asshole.

NO MORE RINOS!
NO MORE RINOS!
NO MORE RINOS!

ccoffer: I am a Conservative, not a Republican. There lies all the difference Bud.

Believe Me, there is a Difference and not a subtle one at that.
Anyone to the Left of Me does not hold America’s best interests at heart or deserve my support. No offense intended but Newt clearly does not measure up anymore. “He could have been a contender…” Now he is just a media whore peddling His Books. No Thanks.

The Republic is at risk and Newt peddles his memoirs and kisses the hands that are the Threat. There is a new Party, neither Democrat or Republican that is awakening and forming ranks. Like the Founders did and they will be a force to be reckoned with. They have too much to lose but everything to gain in restoring America. I stand with Them Politically and they may have been Republicans or Democrats at some point but are Patriots now.

“ccoffer: I am a Conservative, not a Republican. There lies all the difference Bud.”

So you would do your part to see a Stalinist democrat elected if the republican’s ideology didn’t match yours? Out of spite?

The ethic of masturbatory voting is something that truly sickens me. Voting isn’t something you are supposed do for the sake of satisfying your conscience. Its something you owe your country.

The better is always better than the worse.

Oh and Ccoffer, many of us here held our noses and voted for mclame, so get off your high horse…or shove it where your head currently resides.

I’m starting to question whether you aren’t some troll pretending to be a rep. You seem very ignorant of our values or that we voted against obama in large numbers. Masturbatory? Yes, your posts have that quality.

I know some of you proud folk are going to say that the only way to win back the country is to abandon party loyalty cuz they are all the same. “An aggressive communist is the same as an imperfect republican.”

Blind, proud, self important fools. The future is in your hands, You have the power to destroy this republic. I’m sure its comfy with your head all warm and cozy buried up your ass. Meanwhile the world turns.

The blood will be on your hands. Your indifference is Satan’s produce.

Cool with that? It has dick shit to do with me being “cool with that”. It has to do with the alternative. I vote for the better because I vote for my Nation’s sake not my own.

I don’t jerk off in the voting booth. I serve my country in the voting booth. Its done for my country, not for my satisfaction.

Grow up.

Thanks for proving me right troll. I also see you didn’t address one point about newt, either.
You come here and tell us how we need to think and vote, and how we don’t meet with your approval. To that I say FU. The blind self important one is you. You were the one who immediately started talking down to us. That sure tells me how much you love yourself-narcissistic. The fact you also claim to live in the real world is your typical leftist talking point. You are definitely no Rep or Conservative. Unsurprisingly you don’t have a clue and have proven that beyond all doubt.
If your head goes any further up your butt you’ll disappear.
Now STFU phony.

“You were the one who immediately started talking down to us.”

Who the hell is “us”, and why am I left out? Ive been reading and commenting here for quite some time.

If I’m wrong, prove me wrong. Embarrass me in front of the “us”.

I detest stupidity. I cant help it. I want to cure it.

“you scumbag, piece of shit liar”……You lose…….Ad Hominem forfeiture.

You kiss your mom with that mouth?

For shame.

For our little pottymouth trollboy……….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnjbBSEvFdw

Old Trooper, May God bless and keep you safe. Thank you for your service. You will be on our minds and in our prayers each day. Stay in touch when you can.

RAPH

Snowe has got an “R” next to her name. (voted for Reid’s Health Care Bill)

McCain has an “R” too. (Juan McCain)

So does Dole (lost in space….it’s my turn)

And so does Lindsy “Gramnesty”

And so does Bush 41 (Read my lips)

And so with Bush 43 (TARP)

and, of course, so does Lincoln Chaffe (supported Obama in 08)
My God, look at his bio…HE WAS A REPUBLICAN???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Chafee

Newt has been hanging around the DC cocktail circuit wayyyyy too long…he’s infected now

There comes a time when you just have to say “wait a minute” when the party leadership makes multiple bad calls then tells the rank-and-file to sit down, shut up, give money and vote for the “R” reguardless of what’s offered (I’ve encountered this a few years ago at a state function and it left a bad taste in my mouth). Sometimes, the GOP membership needs to tell the leadership to take a hike and remind them that the “big tent” theory is not a blank check to screw basic principles or go “liberal lite”.

After the elections of 06, 08, tea parties, and 9/12 DC event, the GOP should had gotten the message….it appears not…..and I’m getting more and more angrier. The GOP leaders have lost their way or simply don’t care, thinking that the membership has no place to go…..BIG MISTAKE.

The ONLY reason I voted for McCain in 2008 was because of Palin (a true conservative), and what did the GOP leadership, McCain staffers & certain “conservative” bloggers do? They threw her under the bus by spreading false rumors, not coming to her defense during the bogus ethics complaints then fed her to the wolves to fend for herself.

In the end, Palin had to resign her governor’s chair because she was spending too much time and money defending herself from constant bogus ethics complaints (600k legal debt). She couldn’t be the governor anymore. She was once a champion and public servant of Alaskan citizens, but once she became a national figure (and a future GOP star), the paradigm shifted and character assasination became the norm.

And while she was going through this hell, WHERE WAS THE GOP LEADERSHIP???? NOWHERE!!!! Only her fan base was there to help with a legal defense fund and political pact. Meanwhile, the GOP leadership went off to their social events and forgot her. Romney gets a wink…Huckabee gets a pat on the back…but Sarah gets the boot.

Then came the backbiting at the RNCC dinner, the backstabbing by Senator Chamblis, Vanity Fair hitpiece, and McCain’s chief election staffer making nasty cheapshots. And the RINO leadership just stood there and gawked (and probably chucked in the background).

Rubio…don’t get me started there. GOP leadership supports “tan in a can” man.

You see folks. NY23 is not so much a “third party disease” as more of a symptom of a GOP leadership problem. The era of “it’s my turn” needs to end.

Mike, I’ve yet to see a valid point from him. All I see is arrogance, condescension, and him attacking us for not thinking or voting the way he thinks we should. Yes, how dare we try to get Conservatives in at the ground level so we don’t have to choose between bad and worse later on.
He clearly does not understand that the new movement puts COUNTRY first and not party. Who cares about the corrupt leaders? When they do back room deals like the one used to pick Scozzy, they prove they are unfit to lead and undeserving of loyalty. Doing something for the good of the party over the good of the country is something dems do.

As for newt, he WAS a Conservative. He has clearly devolved into something else since. A moderate RINO perhaps, but still a RINO. He DEFINITELY isn’t a man of integrity. His attacks on those who disagree are proof enough of that.

Sorry Curt. I let the bong comments directed at OT and the masturbatory comment set me off. I’ll try to be thicker skinned and cleaner in the future.

Old Trooper, Godspeed.

Jesus Christ, people….

I agree that Newt is making a mistake here. Hoffman, who is the more conservative candidate, has a clear chance of winning. He should be supported; but this is a rare example where voting for the candidate who doesn’t carry the “R” next to the name, actually makes sense.

I know passions run high, but can we not disagree without throwing everyone under the bus who is not a conservative purist? Throwing around the RINO label indiscriminately at whoever doesn’t agree with us 100% of the time on every issue is just political suicide.

We should be able to have disagreements and debates within our own movement without angrily lashing out at each other.

Mike, who says we are demanding the perfect candidate? I would be ok with a moderate, but we don’t have a moderate here. We have a radical leftist pretending to be a moderate. Newt knows that too, but he’s decided to to die on that hill.

One or two disagreements? Newt cavorted with pelosi and has bought into the global warming BS. Snuggling with Sharpton. Backing a leftist. Telling lies about her record and the people who oppose her. Saying we need to move left. That may not be a lot of disagreements, but they are significant.
Someone will probably quote the 80%-20% Reagan quote, but I have a response to that. If the 20% against is on absolute critical issues, while the 80% with is on much less important ones, then yes they are the enemy.
I was luke warm on Newt before this happened. Him supporting dede might have been enough to turn me off on him, but his blatant dishonesty has turned me against him outright.

Like I said, newt WAS a Conservative. Now, he seems to be just another self serving, mealy mouthed political hack. At best he’s a moderate RINO. (Olympia and spector are/were extreme RINOs.)

Just to be clear I do agree there will never be a perfect candidate and pursuing that will be self destructive. With that said, are you all telling me we should tolerate such poor leadership? That we should just shut up and do nothing in these situations? This is exactly what has been meant by getting involved at the grass roots level. Picking a candidate that best represents what we stand for. I’m sorry, but this is not just a minor disagreement or just a mistake on newt’s part. It’s disgusting and worse, calculated. His past work doesn’t earn him a pass on his more current actions.

Notice how all of these ‘courageous ‘ Rs are now taking the leap after Sarah Palin showed them how to have some stones and buck the entrenched leadership?

So because newt isn’t as big a turncoat as graham he’s ok? You’re such a RINO (Yes I’m kidding).

As a voter from the 23rd district, I am happy Doug Hoffman is in the race. Newt’s position that the local Republican Leaders picked the candidate is true. The problem is the local Republican leadership is out of touch with the local voter, they hand picked the GOP candidate and expect us to vote for the candidate they want. Doesn’t this race really show how far out of touch with the people they truly are? With Hoffman overtaking Scozzafava in the polls shouldn’t Newt be backing the local GOP and Conservative Base and not the Local GOP Leadership? The so called leadership is the problem here, just as it is in Washington.

Newt’s statement about the NRA endorsement is also correct, but that is only based on her second amendment voting record while serving in the NY Assembly. Neither Hoffman nor Owens have a voting record as they have not held any office prior to this race so they won’t get an endorsement. I know first hand that most if not all sporting issues Scozzafava supports the 2nd amendment. That alone does not make her a Conservative Republican. This is an important issue to me and one of my top ones, but my problem with her record is her ties to the ACORN backed Working Family’s party, her endorsement by the New York United Teachers Union and other liberal associations in the past. Furthering these agendas does nothing to support the second amendment and will continue to lead to the attacks on it.

I have voted far too often for the anointed candidate and overlook their shortcomings while ignoring the candidates of principle that were overlooked and scoffed at by the party leadership and believe that many others do the same. I have bought into the argument that a vote for the candidate I believe in is a vote for candidate I definitely do not want in office too many times in the past. I have even promoted this argument to others. But not anymore. There is a chance for something good to happen and a lesson to be learned in this race. The government we have is our own fault, for we do not vote for our convictions, we follow the “Party Line” as we are told or a Democrat will win. We call people sheeple for electing Democrat’s to keep their entitlements and for the decline of America’s values. By voting for a Republican rather than values and not voting for the candidate we believe supports our values, but because we are told to, aren’t we also sheeple? Ross Perot took 19% of the vote in 92 in spite of this mindset. I voted for Bush because a vote for Perot was a vote for Clinton. It didn’t matter, Clinton won anyway. I wonder what the outcome would have been if I and others like me voted our values rather than the party’s wishes. Would anyone have ever heard of Monica Lewinski? Would we have ever heard of Obama? Even when we vote for a candidate because we are supposed to the person we elected usually continues to compromise our values, so we have no one to blame but ourselves as our core values continue to slide.

Doug Hoffman will win this race because he is the right person for the district. He will do this in spite of the Local GOP Party Leadership because they failed to represent the people of the district.

He will win because his values and moral standards reflect the majority of the voters in the district.

We as the voters of the 23rd need to review our Local GOP Leadership and find a few Doug Hoffman’s to take these leadership rolls or we will be back in the position all too soon.

The next test for the GOP is going to be Florida. The Democrats are watching very closely the developments bewteen Rubio and Christ. If Christ wins, he will beat Meek by 19 points and if Rubio(I support him) wins, he will beat Meek by 13 points. Right now our objective is to win in every election with the right candidate. Some districs are more liberal than others and we need to be astut. Perhaps that was the strategy that Newt had in mind and it backfired. Yes, I agree that Ross Perot spoiled Bush reelection but Bush also did that to himself for not been able to come back and fight Perot and get support from the religious groups(W made sure to get them on board).

We need to support and unite for our Republican and conservative candidates to defeat Marxist liberals!. Support Chris Christie in Jersey. ACORN people are all over the state. The same thing with Hoffman, Owens is calling every ACORN member to ‘vote’. Sadly, at the end of the day, the corrupt liberal marxists democrats win over our political candidates(vote early and often) because they have created ACORN, and we don’t.

Mike, You miss my point.

How many people didn’t vote for Perot because they were drank the party Kool aid and didn’t vote their convictions. And I am not just referring to Republicans. Your claim that Ross Perot kept Dole from the Presidency and gave Clinton the win is ludicrous. Not everyone that voted for Perot was a Republican. Perot also drew Democrats. And if the GOP would run a true Conservative Republican none of the Democrats would stand a chance.

We are being misled by the Party Leadership because they don’t want someone really cleaning house. It would cost them their congressional pay for life retirement’s and health care to name a few.

I don’t want to see Pelosi or Reid in any power after the 2010 election nor do I want Obama to have a chance in 2012. I don’t advocate for 3rd party candidates in every race either.

You say “A third party is a proven loser. A revitalized Republican Party wins elections. Which one do you want to be a part of?”

If the Republican Party wishes to revitalize itself it is more than welcome and I may join them, but if they continue down the path they have since Regan left office they will be the next 3rd Party. I think the choice is theirs not mine.

And by the way, Perot didn’t steal the election from the GOP, the GOP handed it to Clinton as they handed it to Obama, with their choice of candidates. You suggest all those that voted for Perot would have voted for Dole. Get real! Would I have preferred Bush to Clinton, Dole to Clinton, or McCain to Obama of course. But if the GOP would pick a candidate the people can believe in to, that as you put it, revitalized the party, Clinton would not have won and neither would Obama. The only thing we have to be thankful for is that the Dems picked Gore and Kerry not someone better in 2000 and 2008.

You say Hoffman is sending a message to the party leadership at every level. Gee they missed the messages sent by the Tea Party’s and the health care town hall meetings then. That shows how far they are out of touch with the people. People are sick of not just what is going on today but what has been going on for years. We want our county back. And it’s not that we want it back from the Democrats, we want it back from the misguided GOP also. They are only waking up because they are scared for their own skins in 2010. Nothing strikes fear or awakens a politician more than the threat of being removed from office by their voters, especially those in the party they supposedly represent. Revolution is coming and they are seeing it, feeling it and smelling it.

I have not left the GOP they have left me! Keep drinking the Kool aid and voting for the Party’s choice even if goes against you values and beliefs and you will get what the Party hands you. Shucks they know what is better for you than you do anyway. I will no longer be a sheeple.

The train is rolling, you and the GOP Leadership can either get on board and take the ride or not. But I suggest if you choose to stay in the station don’t stand on the tracks.

Amen.

@URI: I’ve been watching that Florida 2010 Senate race too. I tune in AM 690 Jacksonville and I couldn’t believe it when I heard Crist run the ad claiming to be running against Washington wasteful spending:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxiT0LtN7Dw

I guess he’s hoping that people will forget his embrace of Obama and full support of the Stimulus.

Maybe he’s been a good governor of Florida, but he’s not the kind of conservative we want in the U.S. Senate. He’s not best buds with John McCain and Lindsey Graham for nothing.

Crist has the campaign money, LOTS of it. And I would suggest that all of our friends who declare their desire to see strong conservatives nominated by the GOP should put their money where their mouth is and help Rubio by making a financial contribution to his campaign:

http://www.marcorubio.com/

If Crist wins the primary ‘m not going to tolerate one word of griping from anyone about how rotten the GOP is if they didn’t do anything to Rubio.

From whence comes this bullshit notion that Newt Gingrich was ever some sort of conservative stalwart? The guy was and is an effective communicator in the fight against the evil left. [...]

@Ccoffer: I thought I’d help you out and edit that last sentence for you. You’re argument is much stronger without it.

@Ccoffer: I understand your point, but it doesn’t help to stir things up too much.

@Wordsmith: I’m not sure where you picked up that I quash any debate within a party. Nor was I in the least bit disrespectful to ccoffer. You must have me confused with someone else.

Have you, in all our time together, ever known me to advocate that behavior? No where have I ever given the impression that any party should be homogenous… unless, of course, you want a party of robots.

Nor am I “sitting on my hands” every election. Instead, I have acquiesced far too often to the BS espoused here about “electability”. And boy… how’s that working out for you all?

Quite frankly, if partisans on both sides of the aisle were NOT cowed into the BS that “you’re electing the enemy”, we might be surprised who is actually elected. If you want to get on my bad side, tell me who I am supposed to vote for as an “anti-vote”. I have one opportunity to genuinely express my opinion. And all I get is the crap about “take the lesser evil”. Sometimes I will do that. Others not. But if you’re looking for someone to blame, I’ll blame all of you who vote your R or D letters before I blame those who vote their conscience. If not for all of you, real “change” may come about.

But nooooooooo. I just get the 3rd degree from partisans instead. Horse manure. Take it elsewhere. That manure don’t compost here.

Under no circumstances will I accept the *leadership* of any party of which I am a member that favors Dem-lite simply for “electability” …. all while we pray they actually behave conservative once elected. Been there, done that. We could not be any more Dem-lite than 2008 INRE fiscal matters. And the GOP for the past decade could not be any more anti-conservative in behavior. In fact, you may just want to revisit Congress for the past few decades since FDR. As I said… death by a thousand cuts.

No more. I refuse to be any part of a party that believes cutting on one arm is far superior to cutting off both arms and a leg, and say that constitutes improvement. As far as I’m concerned, no one has said it better than @Rick from the 23rd in his comment. Sorry… that Halloween elephant suit does not hang in my closet, ready to be dutifully donned every election cycle. There may be no perfect candidate, but the best candidate for me is not determined by a letter behind the name.

@Mike’s America, you say… no, make that shout.. ” NO VIABLE CONSERVATIVE ALTERNATIVE TO THE GOP”. You may accept that as permanent fact. I don’t. And in fact, I look back in history as to how parties have morphed and changed over time. The GOP will either morph and provide an alternative other than “that other party, but not quite as much…”, or be abandoned.

When even Hannity… about as partisan a talking head as one can get… abandons the GOP and registers as a Conservative Party member in NY, you have to know you’re on a losing streak. The tent is big enough for conservatives and moderates. It, however, is not a tent that will survive without the conservatives being the guiding force of power and principles, and the moderates being the second stringers. Those roles have been reversed for too long. Either put them in their proper perspective, or face the repercussions of a mass exodus.

I am not a Republican, and I don’t care if the GOP goes away. Another constituent group… with or without a name… will take it’s place at the ballot box. Voters are not a party, they are individuals. And in fact, the Founding Fathers hated the concept of parties anyway. Voters are people with principles. I do not yield them to a party to gain power, and then watch them be no better than what I oppose.

And if I didn’t make it plain before, count me standing with Old Trooper, Rick/23rd, and Timothy here. Game time’s over. Revamp the leadership and direction, or face the music.

@MataHarley: Let me put it this way… THERE IS NO VIABLE CONSERVATIVE ALTERNATIVE TO THE GOP NOW OR ANYTIME IN THE NEAR TO DISTANT FUTURE!

Does that cover it better?

What I don’t get are the GOP haters who naively suggest that if conservatives just picked up our marbles, bail on the GOP and start a new party it would somehow take off like a rocket and conservatives would be winning elections in no time.

You’ve probably heard some variation on the theme: “if we only just gave it a chance and everyone got behind it….” Yeah, sure…

The closest thing to a major third party movement was Ross Perot and his volunteers. 19% in popular vote in 1992 but he failed to win a single state. 8% in 1996. Billions of dollars spent and years of time invested and nothing to show for it. And as a consequence the nation was subjected to 8 years of Clinton scandals and ignoring terrorism.

You can dump on the Grand Old Party all you want. But it’s the only game in town if you want to see conservatives elected to office. Hoffman is the exception but he’s really a Republican isn’t he?

Mike’s A: You can dump on the Grand Old Party all you want. But it’s the only game in town if you want to see conservatives elected to office. Hoffman is the exception but he’s really a Republican isn’t he?

Nope… he’s a conservative. And as long as anyone believes it’s “the only game in town”, it will be… and the losing team to boot.

The same reason that Ron Paul – a liberatarian – switched to the GOP, Mike. Because indy voters are encouraged by partisans to vote “lesser evil” than vote their principles. Paul at least has the integrity to stay true to his libertarian principles as an elected Republican.

I can recall an instance where an election swept the field sans any 3rd party… that would be last Nov…. when the GOP chose to run a Dem-lite. The current POTUS won even despite ostracizing the Hillary voters. Many of whom added to McCain’s numbers. Even more sad for the “Dem-lite” as a preferred option tact.

I repeat… so how’s all these decades of electing Dem-lites in the Congress working out for you, Mike? I’m done. You can pull out your elephant suit. Me? I’ll exercise my right to vote for whom I think is the best candidate… despite the letter behind their name. That’s because I’m conservative, not partisan.

I guess the battle for the independent swing voter that is the deciding factor for most of these races has gone over your head, ccoffer. One doesn’t have to have a letter behind their name to be valuable as a voter.

“I guess the battle for the independent swing voter that is the deciding factor for most of these races has gone over your head, ccoffer. One doesn’t have to have a letter behind their name to be valuable as a voter.”

Is meaningless gibberish the new hip?

I’d rather speak English…any time you’re ready.

Mata, word and several others here have engaged in ridiculous exaggerations and outright strawmen when attempting to say why we are wrong. I have made it very clear, I am ok with true moderates, I don’t want “pure” candidates, and I want to reform the GOP not destroy it.
We’ve had enough of those like newt who will blindly follow the party off a cliff. Sadly when we criticize newt for doing just that, his past is brought up as if that excuses his multiple dem-lite actions now. My favorite is that he isn’t as bad as grahamnasty. It’s like saying that a rapist isn’t all that bad compared to a guy who raped and murdered his victim. THEY ARE BOTH SCUM who deserve scorn! Not to mention as long as we let those like newt and party blue-bloods pull such stunts we WILL NOT get pelosi out of office.

Mata, you nailed it dead center about how the GOP should be. Conservatives in charge with moderates supporting. Dem-lite will destroy the party. If the GOP doesn’t get this, then they will eventually be tossed aside for a new party. That is a fact.
Lastly, we do need to stop voting for someone just because of their party affiliation. If I come accross a DINO running against a RINO, guess who I’ll vote for? Whoever is better regardless of party.

HR, I’d say we mostly agree save for the fact that I don’t feel the need to “reform” the GOP. ’tisn’t my job, nor my quest. The leadership powerhouses will simply have to come to the conclusion that they have distanced themselves from their base and their principles. If they do not, and the base doesn’t demand leadership more in line with the basics (as most here have indicated they will not do….), then I have to assume that party is also not one to which I need to belong.

Indy status has suited me for years. It will suit me for years to come. And at some point, there will be enough ostracized Hillary Dems and fed up conservatives to make one hefty “no party” melting pot of America that owes zip allegience to any political party. Neither of the majors will be able to win squat without winning over the hearts of the non-partisan voter. Both will be forced to rethink their selection of candidates merely for the indy voter. And that’s an achievement above just sucking it up for yet another loser politician… blindly responding to the call to be yet another partisan anti-vote.

@MataHarley #63:

@Wordsmith: I’m not sure where you picked up that I quash any debate within a party. Nor was I in the least bit disrespectful to ccoffer. You must have me confused with someone else.

No, didn’t confuse you at all. Just lumped you in with the others who were raising the room temperature with ccoffer. I might have springboarded off of your comment; but I was addressing others in general. Basically, those who seem to share your perspective.

Have you, in all our time together, ever known me to advocate that behavior? No where have I ever given the impression that any party should be homogenous… unless, of course, you want a party of robots.

It’s not you; but there are those aligned on your side of the chalk line who seem to want to shrink the party and dilute it of those they deem not conservative enough….which seems to amount to anyone to the left of said conservative. Note Old Trooper’s comment #13:

Anyone to the Left of Me does not hold America’s best interests at heart or deserve my support.

How else am I to interpret that?

Nor am I “sitting on my hands” every election.

Which I’m not accusing you of. Again, I’m addressing the overall atmosphere amongst the “angry-as-hell-I’m-not-going-to-take-it-anymore conservative purists (sorry Hard Right, but that’s how some of y’all behave).

Instead, I have acquiesced far too often to the BS espoused here about “electability”. And boy… how’s that working out for you all?

What uber-conservative would have won in the last election, more to the right of McCain? Name a single GOP (or third party conservative) candidate in the last election who could have won against the uber-liberal dream candidate of the Dems. The deck was stacked, and it had little to do with not running a hard-core conservative in ‘08; nor with “true” conservatives angry with the GOP “dem-lites” as you call it, sitting it out and not coming to bat for McCain. They came to bat against Obama and for Palin, if nothing else.

Quite frankly, if partisans on both sides of the aisle were NOT cowed into the BS that “you’re electing the enemy”, we might be surprised who is actually elected.

It’s not being “cowed” nor is it “bs” to take electability into consideration. Voting third party candidates is a selfish throwing away of your vote if that candidate has an unrealistic chance of actually winning. Did Perot not help us get Clinton or not? What is principled about losing elections?

Until such times as when the vast majority of the country leans in one direction politically, electability should be taken into consideration. Voting for the candidate with whom you share the most in common “on principle” rather than for the one you know has the best chance of winning but who you agree with less, is not a winning strategy.

The problem with party purists is they can’t get it into their heads that a good percentage of the voting block doesn’t agree with them, ideologically. They think “if only voters understood my such-and-such ideology better, we’d be loved and embraced.”

Quite frankly, if you want to get on my bad side, tell me who I am supposed to vote for as an “anti-vote”. I have one opportunity to genuinely express my opinion. And all I get is the crap about “take the lesser evil”. Sometimes I will do that. Others not. But if you’re looking for someone to blame, I’ll blame all of you who vote your R or D letters before I blame those who vote their conscience. If not for all of you, real “change” may come about.

Then I’d be one guilty as charged.

Voting for the candidate you agree with solely on principle (shared ideology) with no accounting for whether or not he has a realistic chance of winning, is to throw away your chance of influencing the election outcome in favor of the candidate who most closely represents you AND stands a chance of winning. American politics is a two-party system.

And yes, I’ll go with a lesser of two evils, when given two choices. Primaries are for “teaching lessons” and trying to get that dream candidate. In the general election, you go with the “lesser of two evils”.

But nooooooooo. I just get the 3rd degree from partisans instead. Horse manure. Take it elsewhere. That manure don’t compost here.

Sorry you take it so personally, but so be it. My address was only partially directed toward you, and wasn’t meant to be a personal attack. But I suppose passions run volatile on this issue, which is why people otherwise aligned like ccoffer and Hard Right and Co. are drawing lines in the sand and exchanging ideas and debate laced with insults rather than ideas and debate minus the contemptuous tone.

Under no circumstances will I accept the *leadership* of a party, of which I am a member, that favors Dem-lite simply for “electability” ….

And I’m not saying go with party leadership that have abandoned core conservatism. I’m not saying “electability” is what matters first and foremost. But it has to be taken into consideration.

There are hard-liners out there who, if Reagan were alive today, would not be “Reagan” enough for those conservatives. I’m not talking about going rah-rah over a candidate who only votes conservative on 50% of the issues. They can vote GOP, but I don’t want them as the GOP leadership any more than you. But when it comes time to influence an election result, you have two choices: Candidate A or candidate B. That, to me, is being practical and realistic.

No more. I refuse to be any part of a party that believes cutting on one arm is far superior to cutting off both arms and a leg, and say that constitutes improvement. As far as I’m concerned, no one has said it better than @Rick from the 23rd in his comment. Sorry… that Halloween elephant suit does not hang in my closet, ready to be dutifully donned every election cycle. There may be no perfect candidate, but the best candidate for me is not determined by a letter behind the name.

Sorry, but in general, party matters. Carrying party majorities to get anything done, matters in Congress. And voting party is a principled position because majority in power is how you get legislation pushed through.

A political party is a coalition of people with different opinions, but who are aligned together on some basic core issues and shared principles.

No one is saying grow “the big tent” so huge as to make one side indistinguishable from the other. But you don’t win elections by shrinking the tent in a purification purge, either. Yeah, that makes sense- shrink the party in a one vote/per person system.

@Hard Right #56:

Puritanism? Not you too wordsmith?
I am tired of that straw man as well. Folks like myself take exception with scuzzy and newt’s leftward shift, and we accused of being extremists demanding purity. What utter cr*p.

This is hardly a strawman. Party purists are alive and well, even if they refuse to see themselves as such.

And both Mike and I have said that Newt is in the wrong and we agree that Hoffman should be supported.

But based upon past comments in other threads, yeah, I’d classify you as one of those demanding a party purge and shrinkage of the tent. In some ways, good, well, and needed; and in other ways, I think harmful. No offense meant. Just disagreement on how best to proceed with a winning strategy on how to effectively move the country further right.

Remember standards? We used to have them.

Wordsmith full deck comment #52:

Every single Republican in both houses of Congress voted against President Obama’s budget.

Every single Republican except the two Senators from Maine voted against the stimulus package.

Every Republican in the House of Representatives opposes Obamacare.

If conservatives want the GOP to continue trending to the right, keep trying to effect change from within the party. Going outside of one of the two major parties is wasted effort. Ron Paul was smart enough to understand that.

As for Reagan, he sure as hell didn’t compromise his core principals. He attracted people by standing firm and effectively communicating his beliefs and how they benefitted Americans. That is my point about what we should be doing.

And my point regarding Reagan on the meaning of “compromise” as opposed to appeasement, is in part, this.

Reagan worked to get what he wanted; but sometimes, that included compromise with a politically divided Congress, through the system of bargaining. In order to get what you want, sometimes you have to give up something in return.

Newt NOT a CINO? It’s like talking to obama supporters. Let me be clear, newt is NO LONGER a Conservative. Does he have to praise obama and the dems before you’ll see that? Benedict Arnold was a great patriot until he betrayed his country. I’m not saying newt is a traitor or that far gone, be he is getting there.

I’ve never been a Newt fan; but when you take harumphrage to my mention of party purists, as though it’s myth-making figment of the imagination…..say again that it’s a “strawman” when you make comments like the above blockquote?

@Hankster58 comment #76:

.. but after this last election, and the screwing we got, what did we have to lose??? We lost anyway!!!!

That would have to assume that McCain’s sin was strictly based upon not being a further-to-the-right conservative candidate.

1.McCain ran a lousy campaign.
2. Timing of the financial crisis
3. Dems ran an uber-candidate that captured liberal imaginations ever since his ‘04 DNC speech
4. Obama ran as a bipartisan, post-racial second-coming of JFK/MLK moderate and uniter.
5. Media support that shaped Obama’s image
6. After 8 years of hammering away, nation was Bush-fatigued….2 wars, Katrina….
7. McCain didn’t lose because he failed to win the conservative vote over Obama. He failed to excite and win over the moderates and centrists, who were fooled into voting for Obama by the romanticized message of “hope” and “change”.

Welcome to FA, btw.

Just a little family-squabble going on. We’re all friends here.

@Hankster58:

Hell near the end he was almost CAMPAIGNING for Obama, saying he wasn’t someone to be afraid of etc..

That’s an overexaggerated mischaracterization (it’s called “civility”).

Because the “paling around with terrorists” Palin comment set such a better tone and winning approach to attract non-conservative voters, right? Might have worked, had the MSM done its job to figure out what she meant by that linkage. Without the clarification, without the research, it’s interpreted by those centrists who don’t follow politics like you and I and who generally hate politics because of all the rancor and divisiveness it breeds, the phrase looks like hate-smear. It turned voters off.

Yes there will still be such situations and we will have to vote for the little evil, but we should be looking to minimize those situations as much as possible. That does mean supporting the best available candidate at the grass roots level, but it also means holding our leader’s feet to the fire when they make decisions like the one in NY-23.

I agree with that.

I could write a post on how newt is lying and even he knows it. In fact, I just might.

For as long as you’ve been commenting here, it’s about time you submitted a post.

Dang! Hoffman is racking up Republican endorsements. The pendulum is swinging to the right.

I wonder how Newt feels now that his endorsed pick left the race and is now endorsing the Democrat.