Is The American Military Ready For Greek Love? [Reader Post]

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The love of one warrior for another has played an important part of many warrior cultures, sacrificing one life for another and never letting down your fellow warriors has been the foundation of loyalty within armies throughout history. Older men have traditionally had relationships with younger recruits as part of their initiation into a fraternity of warriors. The esprit de corps has to be learned along with the code of martial values, an experienced older warrior is the perfect instructor. In our traditional boot camps, the Drill Instructor taught military discipline and set an example of how a warrior conducts himself.

The ancient Greek Warrior culture was based on this format, it has been described in detail by Homer. The role of a mentor and a youth was seen as a means of educating the youth to assume an adult position in society. The intensity of the youth for his mentor would form greater bonds to the military unit and the mentor’s love for his student exhibited his love for the youth’s beauty and moral innocence.

Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle wrote of this love between a youth and his mentor, without details of physical love itself. Plato in particular wrote of a chaste passion that transcended physical passion, thus the phrase “Platonic Love” came into being in modern English.

Plutarch wrote of these relationships being chaste, that it was unthinkable for an older man to have sexual union with his young love; if a male couple yielded to sexual temptation and sexual congress occurred, the couple must address the honor of Sparta and either go into exile or commit suicide.

Spartans believed that the love of an accomplished aristocrat for an adolescent boy was essential for the boy to develop as a free citizen and faithful warrior. Plato wrote in his “Laws” that homosexuality was “beyond nature,” yet several contemporaries wrote that the concept of Spartan pederasty was haste but still erotic. This concept for us is hard to understand, but we must remember these are cultural concepts that were a part of life in the dawn of Western Civilization, our culture and concepts of love and friendship are infinitely different.

We in the 21st century must realize that we view these events through a prism that is nearly 2,500 years old and the culture of man has undergone uncountable changes. That this ancient culture can easily be subverted by different influences to present a political view or agenda.

These conflicts began almost immediately, Athens had a great deal of enmity toward the Spartans and wrote of this male love with much derision in that same era. The Comedians of Athens often based their whole routine on a perverted view of the Spartan version of love between males.

Homer’s Illiad doesn’t describe a sexual relationship between Achilles and Patroclus, it describes a “Platonic” love between warriors, but because the pair placed their relationship foremost in regard to their tribe and after Achilles’ dramatic reaction to the death of Patroclus, modern man assumes the relationship to have been homoerotic.

The fascination of homoerotica makes a story more provocative, William Shakespeare used this ploy in “Troilus And Cressida.” In this play brutal sexual language substitutes for combat in a 17th century version of The Trojan Wars, an English version of Homer’s Illiad. Here in an epic satire of war, love is devalued and the love that existed between Achilles and Patroclus becomes a sordid affair of homosexuality tinged more with venereal disease than innocent chaste male love between warriors.

In the play, Thersites, a camp follower torments and insults them with curses on their supposed sex life.

Troilus and Cressida: Act 5, Scene 1

{Achilles and Patroclus are lounging in bed}

Thersites: Prithee be silent, boy…. Thou are thought to be Achilles’ male varlet.

Patroclus: Male varlet, you rogue? What’s that?

Thersites: Why, his masculine whore. Now the rotten diseases of the south, the guts-griping, ruptures, loads of gravel in the back, lethargies, old palsies, raw eyes, dirt-rotten livers, wheeing lungs, bladders full of impostume, sciaticas, lime-kilns, incurable bone ache, and the rivelled fee-smple of the tetter, take and take again such preposterous discoveries!

Patroclus: Why, thou damnable box of envy thou, what mean’st thou to curse thus?

Thersites: Do I curse thee?

Patroclus: Why, no, you ruinous butt, you whoreson indistinguishable cur, no.
In reality, any man who approached either of these two warriors with such an attitude would have met an immediate death; but from two thousand years away, William was fairly safe with his portrayal of Patroclus as an effeminate sexual partner of Achilles. The idea appealed to the prurient nature of the theater fan, thus tickets were sold at the expense of the reputation of men long dead.

Alexander of Macedon was and is reputed to have been a homosexual, although he had several wives who seemed to enjoy his companionship. Like Achilles, Alexander had a close friend, Hephasestion. They were both warriors and fought like any man in their units.

Alexander had a dramatic flair and began dressing in the clothing of Persian kings and was adopting Persian customs, the most obvious was Proskynesis, a Persian custom of prostrating or kissing the hand of a ruler to show subservience. To the Dorian Greeks this was shameful and indicated that Alexander meant to deify himself. They began to become disillusioned with Alexander and of course the rumors began.

Hephasestion died and Alexander again became overly dramatic and flung himself on the corpse in an out pouring of grief that was very un-Greek like, he mourned for six months. For the Greeks who had lost many friends during their long years of warfare, this was gross indecency and sowed the seeds of discontent.

Were the Spartans, Achilles, and Alexander raging homosexuals, not likely if we are to believe the writing of the period, if we are to follow the enthusiastic gay lobby and William Shakespeare, we are then to assume they were all homosexuals.

In 1993, President Clinton signed into law, the don’t ask don’t tell law, that didn’t give homosexuals rights to be in the military, it merely stated that if you keep a low profile and no one knows, you can serve in the military; pretty much the way it has always been.

During the presidential campaign, B. Obama promised the gays that he would make it so that gay, lesbian, and trans-gendered people could serve and flaunt their homo-sexuality openly. The gay community is demanding that he make good on his campaign pledge. President Obama seems to be wavering on his campaign promise by saying, “Later folks, I am working on the details.”

Of course there is a small matter of whether military personnel wants to rely on gay individuals for their life and for leadership. They can only use the examples of gay individuals they have known in their life and often that is less than promising.

Can gay people lead men into combat?

Are we ready to gamble on misinformation from 2500 years ago that has gone through many agendas?

Are trans-gendered people stable enough to withstand the demands of combat?

These are questions that President Obama and the Pentagon are hopefully considering before restructuring the American Military and its proud traditions. To many of us a President’s campaign promises are insignificant to having a strong and reliable military.

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The problem with this brings into being the need for seperate shower and toilets for the different genders, now instead of two, you will need four. The same goes for sleeping quarters and don’t even get me started on how they are suppose to handle spouses and dependants.

Ban gays from military – period — the Sparta BS lasted one whole 20 years (source – histoire channel) — well duh!!

Aleric, I think you miscounted, with trans-gender people you might need 6, I think. Although, I don’t fully understand the concept. How do you address a trans-gender officer. Is it sir mam or mam sir, this will require the military book of etiquette to be rewritten. These must be the new jobs Obama is talking about. Yipee!

Will you be able to make a formal complaint if a gay guy always showers when you do? If you drop your wallet in the squad bay, will you need to kick it all the way to your bunk before you bend over to pick it up? These are questions that need to be addressed.

If a homosexual individual wanted to save my life on the battlefield, I do not think I would stop him.

Easy solution make all gay/lezzie units. So you get 3 genders but you get to test if gays can fight without having to worry about their bunk mates killing them.

CAUTION THE BELOW POST CONTAINS GRAPHIC AND DISTURBING IMAGES.

Obama gives speech before the nations larges all male gay rights group

Obama closes his speech with, ” I will end the don’t ask don’t tell military policy,which ah… proves that I want and have your backs.”
The all male crowd then erupted into wild applause and shouts of “we want your back too” as hundreds of motel key cards began to be thrown onto the stage. Loud bumping disco music then begins to fill the overhead speakers, as Obama breaks into a Robot dance.

AND THE GAY AGENDA PUSHES ON…..
Gay comic book superheros…..
Lesbian Batwoman Busts Comic Book Barriers.
“Batcave Woman”—described as a “community activists by day (who teaches 1st graders about diversity), a lesbian socialite by night and a crime-fighter by later in the night”—will star in a 12-issue run of “Detective Comics” being hailed as groundbreaking by gay organizations. The readers will get a hint of her lesbianism when it’s discovered that she only invites woman over to get a look at her Bat Cave. “Batcave Woman’s” motto will be “I’ll knockout any man and lick any woman who tries to fight me.”

AND…….

Comics Legend Stan Lee Creates Gay Superhero, “Homo Exceptional Man”

Look! What’s that flying just above the Gutters?
Homo Exceptional man don’t fly he flutters.
He’s not wearing a cape like the others.
He’s got a sweater tied around his shoulders.
Although,
his wife don’t know,
he’s on the down low.
He’s coming to make a stand,
for the gay man.
Gonna fight every damn,
Republican.
O Bam A! He’ll shout,
as he tries to scratch your eyes out.

AND DON’T FORGET THE CHILDRENS CARTOON SHOW………….
VIACOM: NEW CARTOON CHARACTER TO DISPUTE STAIN GLASS BOB FANCY PANTS

Viacom Inc. who produces the cartoon show Nickelodeon, will attempt to improve their subscriptions in the San Francisco area by introducing a new cartoon character named Stain Glass Bob Fancy Pants. The cartoon will follow Stain Glass Bob as he hits all the San Francisco area nightclubs showing off his fancy moves and fancy pants on the dance floor.

@Mr. T:

Nobody wonders about the person that is saving their neck. It’s about the person or persons that put them out there where they ended up in need of saving.

Here is what I mean:

There are many rules on the books to discourage fraternization. Why do you suppose that would be necessary? Is there something bad about socializing between ranks? It would seem like that would build bonds that would enhance teamwork because everyone knows the limits and nobody would exploit those links or abuse them in any way, right? If you know people then you know that the notion that fraternization would have no harmful impact on morale or discipline is simply false.

Consider that senior personnel cannot loan money to subordinates, even for a purely innocent purpose. What harm would it do to make sure that your soldier’s family has enough money at the end of the month to keep some groceries in the fridge? None. But to the other soldiers that feel that they could also use a buck to make ends meet, this appears as favoritism if only one troop seems to get that extra support. Some personnel might feel some sort of obligation existed due to this financial transaction. It only gets worse from there but to get back to socializing between ranks, you have to be able to see that some feelings of favoritism will emerge if the First Sergeant is inviting some of his troops over for a poker game but not all of his troops. We don’t even have to get into the issue of taking money from troops if Top happens to get lucky with the cards.

These things are magnified beyond belief when the order comes down for your unit to conduct another risky operation when the Company Commander’s favorite Platoon Leader’s unit never seems to draw that short straw. If you think Joe doesn’t track that sort of thing you would be terribly remiss regarding the average soldier’s attentiveness to everything from duty rosters in garrison on down the line to the worst jobs on the battlefield.

Throw sex into that equation, mix in a population with a lot of different ideas about what is fair and what isn’t, and you have recipe for disaster. We do not allow heterosexual married couples in the same commands for that reason because even the appearance of favoritism or conflict of interest can cause irreparable damage to morale, unit cohesion, and may ultimately compromise the mission. The minute you have an outwardly homosexual leader in a unit there will be suspicions that he or she may play favorites because one soldier or sailor is his or her “type”, regardless if anything has actually happened or not. The suspicion might as well be an engagement ring because it will surely be a weight around the neck of everyone serving in that unit and the organizations that depend on that unit, whether they know the specifics or not.

There is a war on and social experimentation of this type is not going to help advance the fight effectively against those who would do us harm. To say that pursuing some resolution of the corrupt, political compromise called the “Don’t ask don’t tell” policy is a distraction seriously underestimates the damage that it has already done and of the greater damage that would result if the policy were to be further liberalized. Abusing the power of the Executive Branch and it’s unique status regarding the military to force an artificial “normalization” of homosexual lifestyles constitutes an end run around civilian society. Accepting homosexuality is a matter for individuals to consider on their own terms. If the President of the United States want to convince the American population that homosexuals are no different than anyone else then I say let him try his best. He cannot order the American public to change their views on this topic and I think this is the wrong time to order the military to instruct service members within it’s ranks to change theirs.

There is also the matter of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The President cannot change the UCMJ, that is the domain of the Legislative Branch and without Congress’ cooperation substantive changes are not possible. If the President thinks he’s having a hard time with his Blue Dogs now, just try and foist a radical rewrite of the UCMJ on them. He cannot afford that now, if ever, so don’t expect any immediate changes other than a few edits to be delivered from the teleprompter when support needs shoring up here and there.

One last note – If President Obama feels so strongly about the equality of homosexuals, then why didn’t he risk his candidacy by supporting marriage between same sex couples? Was it too dangerous to risk that shot at the Oval Office? Was winning the White House just so much more important? Well how about winning the war, for crying out loud?! Order, discipline and morale are critical elements for survival on the battlefield and they could be jeopardized by a risky proposition that already served it’s purpose as campaign fodder for Bill Clinton and created a nuisance for the military.

Stop the presses, thanks for the comedic break, I need all the laughs I can get these days. Well done, I insist on more of this lunacy, as soon as possible. You have a gift my friend, use it well!

tfhr, you outran me with a few lines and I worked dang hard on that piece, well done my friend. You are obviously well versed in military etiquette and I thank you for helping me get a point across. Its funny, I used 2500 years of history to make a point and you used a modern squad bay with the dynamics of typical situations written in a simple concise manner and made your point with the force of an overhand right. Well done sir!