Would that “win” us a “watered down” (re: semblance of) victory?
It sounds like President Obama might be looking to have it both ways on Afghanistan.
A U.S Marine from Delta Company of 2nd Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalion patrols near the town of Khan Neshin in Rig district of Helmand province, southern Afghanistan September 8, 2009.
REUTERS/Goran Tomasevic (AFGHANISTAN CONFLICT MILITARY IMAGES OF THE DAY)
The “demoralizing” results of the recent Afghan election- with allegations of fraud, both real and perceived, has been an enormous setback. The Afghans are losing faith in the new government and the Taliban are emboldened. This has contributed to President Obama’s reassessment of the way forward in Afghanistan:
Asked why Obama is questioning a key assumption of his Afghanistan strategy just six months after he stood before a bank of flags and endorsed the white paper, administration spokesmen have cited the potential impact on counterinsurgency efforts of the country’s fraud-riddled presidential election in August. They have also noted that Obama said in March that he would review whether the United States was “using the right tools and tactics to make progress.”
Meanwhile, four days after two combat outposts were overrun, leaving 8 U.S. and 4 Afghan soldiers dead, the Taliban is claiming that it has raised a flag over Nuristan in response to the NATO claim that over 100 insurgents were killed during that attack.
The Taliban are not the only ones who are influenced by America’s perceived weakness (and the apparent lack of resolve on the part of the current administration to outlast and defeat them).
Pakistan has been making recent gains and newfound courage in facing down Taliban militants and al Qaeda; but this “dithering” on the part of President Obama is creating a loss of confidence in America’s willingness to outlast the enemy’s resolve when the going gets tough.
As Chris Brose and I recently argued, it is vital for the West to prevail in Afghanistan because of its effect in shaping Pakistan’s strategic future. Proponents of drawing down in Afghanistan on the grounds that Pakistan is the more important strategic prize have it only half right: if Pakistan is the strategic prize, it should be unthinkable not to press for victory in Afghanistan given the spillover effects of a Western defeat there. All of Pakistan’s pathologies — from terrorist sanctuary in ungoverned spaces, to radicalized public opinion that creates an enabling environment for violent extremism, to lack of economic opportunity that incentivizes militancy, to the (in)security of Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal, to the military’s oversized role in political life in ways that stunt the development of civilian institutions — all of this will intensify should Afghanistan succumb to the Taliban as the West withdraws.
These dynamics, in turn, will destabilize India in ways that could torpedo the country’s rise to world power — and the strategic dividends America would reap from India’s success. New Delhi is now a truer proponent of Washington’s original objectives in Afghanistan — the Taliban’s decisive defeat by military force rather than reconciliation and the construction of a capable Afghan democracy — than some American leaders are now. Afghanistan is in India’s backyard — they shared a border until 1947 — and the collapse of its government would destabilize Pakistan in ways that would quickly cost Indian dearly. Indian strategists fear that the spillover from a Taliban victory in Afghanistan would induce Pakistan’s “Lebanonization,” with the Pakistani Taliban becoming a kind of South Asian Hezbollah that would launch waves of crippling attacks against India. India cannot rise to be an Asian balancer, global security provider, and engine of the world economy if it is mired in interminable proxy conflict with terrorists emanating from a weak or collapsing state armed with nuclear weapons on its border.
Pakistan’s government is already wavering in it’s confidence over the new administration, due to the “dithering” and appearance of a lack of resolve to “win” in Afghanistan. The talk of whether or not to narrow the focus to counterterrorism operations rather than on counterinsurgency has the propagandistic perception of a Black Hawk Down type of retreat by this administration. Trying to save costs and conduct war “cheaper and smarter” comes across as another name for being risk-averse and half-assed in commitment.
Stephen M. Walt, who supports the narrower approach, also deplores the “middle ground” position:
President Obama has reportedly ruled out a major reduction in U.S. forces in Afghanistan, and is still mulling over the military’s request for more troops. The LA Times says he’s looking for “middle ground” here, which would be consistent with Obama’s decision-making style. In this case, however, it’s the worst of a set of bad options. If things eventually go south (as I believe they will), he’ll get blamed for not giving the commanders enough to do the job and for incurring additional costs to no good purpose.
Looking for “an exit strategy” is not the right mentality; nor does it send the correct message to our enemies nor to our allies. The way the debate should be framed is: What is the strategy needed to defeat both the al Qaeda NETWORK and the Taliban?
And a “middle ground” commitment seems to be a recipe for dithering disaster. Better to pick one or the other. Not a “moderate” position, which is just a dilution of either roadmap.
Robert Kaplan (author of Imperial Grunts and Hog Pilots, Blue Water Grunts) has an interesting article in the NYTimes today (which Stephen Walt also comments on in his post that I linked to), regarding what countries stand to benefit from our stay and success in Afghanistan, and how we don’t have a choice but stay and succeed. He also concludes:
one could make an excellent case that an ignominious withdrawal from Afghanistan is precisely what would lead to our decline, by demoralizing our military, signaling to our friends worldwide that we cannot be counted on and demonstrating that our enemies have greater resolve than we do. That is why we have no choice in Afghanistan but to add troops and continue to fight.
But as much as we hone our counterinsurgency skills and develop assets for the “long war,” history would suggest that over time we can more easily preserve our standing in the world by using naval and air power from a distance when intervening abroad. Afghanistan should be the very last place where we are a land-based meddler, caught up in internal Islamic conflict, helping the strategic ambitions of the Chinese and others.
An Light Armor Vehicle (LAV) travels through Helmand province with the solar eclipse visible in the background on July 22.
Nikki Kahn-The Washington Post
A former fetus, the “wordsmith from nantucket” was born in Phoenix, Arizona in 1968. Adopted at birth, wordsmith grew up a military brat. He achieved his B.A. in English from the University of California, Los Angeles (graduating in the top 97% of his class), where he also competed rings for the UCLA mens gymnastics team. The events of 9/11 woke him from his political slumber and malaise. Currently a personal trainer and gymnastics coach.
The wordsmith has never been to Nantucket.
Anything but full support for our troops in Afghanistan would spell certain doom for Obama. During the election Obama was touting a surge for Afghanistan at the same time he was in denial about the positive effects of Bush’s famed surge in Iraq.
No effective Surge. A Punk ASSED Political DEAL AND RETREAT LIKE Vietnam.
The Pretender in Chief does not care.
He served ACORN, SEIU and Never America.
Funerals for Real American Patriots pile up. No American Leadership matters?
At OP 1 now and no further posts from here. Arrived on Horseback and smelled a pot of beans and ham and carried in
my gear and poured a cup of coffee and there is radio but no tv here.ree Enterprise and Rough Folks may be what saves America.
No comment required.
Sorry for the case type blow outs. Cold Hands do that.
This administration is filled with boneheaded stupid arrogance and incompetence.
When I have stated that Obama DOES NOT SUPPORT THE TROOPS, this is what I mean.
My Marine son is there, and has been BEGGING for this president to show that he gives a SHIT about what they are going through.
If a 19 year-old knows what needs to be done, and wants more that ANYTHING to have is CIC publically cheerlead for him and his mission, then why the F**K can’t he find it in himself to do what needs to be done?
These young men and women will walk through hell for their mission, but when they see their president putting them on the back burner for his own goddamn image, those dawgs feel it.
To HELL WITH THIS SON OF A BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GOD DAMN HIM TO HELL!!!!!FOR FUCKING WITH MY SON FUCKCUCKCUCKCUCKOKDPFG
@ Patvann, are you ever mad at the former Administration for not finishing the job in Afg, or is it just all Pres Obama’s fault?
Anyone know when Obama last visited the wounded troops?
Patvann–My Marine son is reupping and will be heading for the stan next year. He was going to get out in January, but on his last postdeployment leave in the summer, he took a look around here in Oregon and said to me “MOM, all there is around here is half empty strip malls and office parks. . .” so decided to remain in. I could not argue with his decision, even though we all knew that that meant he’d be seeing the rock pile in 2010.
I wish we had a CIC who had some feeling for our military. When I saw a picture of this empty suit playing basketball last year wearing a USMC teeshirt, when he had never earned the Eagle, Globe and Anchor–that told me all I needed to know about him and how he would treat our service people. This idea of having just enough troops there to keep Al Qaeda at bay is a receipt for disaster. The blood of America’s sons will be on Barry’s head.
Blast–whatever I think of GWB and his handling or not of Afg, it is Barry Soetoro’s watch now. I seem to remember that he campaigned on the importance of winning the war there. I guess it isn’t so urgent now, is it?
Blast.
I wish to God you were in front of me right now, you pathetic son of a bitch. And I imply your mother. Fuck you.
Nelly.
I am a Father of a Marine. I am a former SeAL. I am the nephew of Marines, the son of a sailor, and the brother to soldiers. My cousin (Army Colonel) is in charge of every piece of food our men and women eat in the battle zone. I have spent my morning screaming at the White house, when I knew it would fall on deaf ears. May God give you what I lack…because I know for a fact I am 1 degree from insanity. I am only waiting for my better half to come home and hold me back from getting on a plane right now and going in-country to off Taliban with my abilities and my weapons. I was there in 2001 for the CIA, and I have no problem going back, except for her, and my two other kids.
I HAVE NO ROE.
Your only consolation is that our Marines take care of eachother better than anyone, and they do so with or without this weakling CIC and the even more pathetic congress. My heart is with you 10000%.
(Mods..Please feel free to delete this, or censor it, cuz I’m kinda off right now.)
Patvann, ROTFLOL… I just showed your comment to several buddies that stopped by… it took a while to stop laughing to respond, but I think I will just make a screen grab of this comment and print it out for my desk. It will bring me back to this moment of hysterical laughter. Thanks!
Patvann, hang in there and don’t bust anything around the house and pay “Blast” any more attention than the obvious douche that she is. Your concern for your son and all servicemen in harms way is well founded and shared by many of us veterans and readers of FA. Thank you to you and to Nelly who have kids serving; I think it must be much harder being the parent than serving yourself.
The divide between those that serve and have served and those that obviously have no clue of sacrifice or honor could not be better revealed than to see how the libtards are running our country now and the occasional douce who thinks it’s funny to tease. They know not what they do, and when they’re scared at night, they’ll not know character and resolve, .. .they’ll quake and cry for someone to help them.
@Blast:
Wow Dudley….
Is this the way you treat the father of a fellow Marine?
Yesterday you were whining and crying like a seven year old girl because you thought I had been “abusive” to you.
Today you squeeze this out.
Just another example of why you’re less significant than smeared dog feces.
Stay classy Dudley. Stay classy.
Allow me to remind you, Blast…
I’ll expect a correction from you forthwith…. or perhaps it’s only a NATO battle under your Obama, and an American battle under Bush?
That said, I will inform many here that do not know that Blast is also a Marine, and veteran of the Iraq war. I can say that I vehemently disagree with him on most occasions, but I do keep in mind he put his life, limb and body on the line for free speech. Even when that speech is lacking in facts and shy of proper perspective.
As to the subject at hand, I am livid at the fence balancing act this Eunuch in Chief has chosen to play. Each day he does not make a decision, and balks at committment, more young men die. A fact that the media, who expressed morbid glee daily with deaths of soldiers in Iraq, see as unimportant now.
It is foolhardy to ignore the *NATO* leadership of McChrystal, as well as the US troops commander, Petreus, requests. The Eunuch in Chief should either get all in the game, or get all out… and shoulder the blame for the ensuing consequences of retreat.
patvann I don’t have any kids overseas, but I feel for you. These Libs don’t serve as a rule and their children never serve. Try not to let these sick ba$tards get under your skin. There are many of us who feel your frustration.
A little story, after 9/11 I was in shock like everyone. I went to Kinko’s and asked them to make a sign for me. It read, Mr. Bush Do you have a rifle for an Old Marine, Hell Yes, I’ll Go. I wanted it just big enough to fit in the rear window of the canopy of my one ton.
The first surprise I had was the young clerk (I live in Liberal Land) he said, “let me get my manager.” I thought oh boy, here we go.
The manager came over and said “cost of materials only” and shook my hand. I was shocked, I was saving forty dollars!
Then when I drove in traffic, I expected the possibility of a fight. Instead I got many thumbs up, clenched fists with a smile, and teenagers yelling out support like they were at a football game. When traffic would stop guys would get out of their cars to shake my hand and tell me of their service and units. I was proud of my Americans. I had to drive across country and my wife asked me to take down the sign because the response was too overwhelming.
The point is there are a lot of us who are with you at least spiritually and feel your helplessness at being too old or too far out of it with commitments. After 9/11 I thought they would call us old timers to armories to pick up rifles and war gear. I thought we were under attack. Well here I sit still paying a mortgage watching everything I built in a business gradually slide to hell. But I think about the young patriots like your son so willing to put it all on the line and an incompetent in the WH that wants to see what the polls say and whether he can squeak a Health Care Bill by the American public while he tightens the Socialist noose around our necks.
Before long, it wont matter, a bunch of us might as, oh well, Like I said there are many who admire your family’s service to this country and wish we had some of that same commitment in Washington. Fare thee well my Friend and God Speed.
Well Marta, he is a marine and a veteran of war so be it. His teasing reflects his immaturity and lack of character as I judge him. A punk who teases and belittles for amusement. His service and his Marine Corps deserve honor and respect. His behavior reflects a small man who revels in his smallness. I feel empathy for the marines on here who read this guy served in the corps. The Marines can’t overcome some clods shortcomings. But Blast, thanks for your service and I hope that the reality of war at home for a lot of us isn’t as funny as it probably seems to someone who served over there and doesn’t understand why it’s not all a freakin’ joke.
Mata, I question the truth of him being a Marine or a combat vet. Perhaps he provided you proof. At best he strikes me as someone who may have served at the time of the Gulf War and maybe even deployed, but never saw action. Again, I could be wrong.
While I may appreciate his service, his support of those who hate this country and want it destroyed from the inside is dispicable.
After the bus stop thread I was pretty sure he was a troll. I guess getting his butt handed to him over and over in debates got to him.
Blast,
You were a Marine? What happened to you that you would want to taunt and harangue a family member of someone serving in the Armed Forces of the United States of America?
Did you get bounced out and now you’re bitter and vindictive?
Or are you something like Murtha, a scumbag that would falsely condemn Marines for the sake of making a cheap political point? The USMC is a proud organization but every once in a while a Murtha, Lonetree, or Oswald emerges to bring some shame upon themselves but never to the Marines that protect and defend this country.
One other thing: Considering the content of much of what you’ve had to say here, I’m surprised to hear that you would want to reveal that about yourself to others. Could they really be such losers that they too would take pleasure in your behavior? I suspect you’ve embarrassed yourself closer to home than you realize.
I want to apologize to everyone for my loss of control. (The only breakage was the keyboard, but they’re cheap.) Thank you for “feeling” with me.
With my contacts and old friends I was able to help out after 911. I spent a month in Afghanistan and Kyrgyzstan doing some stuff. It felt great to help. I’ve also done work for the UN in Darfur sneaking out evidence of the mass rapes going on there. I know my 48y/o body ain’t want it used to be, but what remains is ready to be useful.
I will not believe a person who failed to know what the EGA is, was a Marine. Regardless, there are jerks in all the Services.
This email came today (10-8-09) from Michael Yon:
My feelings for the troops’ safety, and them being given the resources to do what they’ve been trained to do without being cut off at the knees by those who have the power to give them what they need and don’t, is so intense I am almost speechless. And, I don’t even have immediate family serving, so can only imagine what the family members, as well as servicemen and women, are struggling with right now. Not to get too religious, but one thing I do know. The God I know is more than able to right the wrongs in this situation, and I believe, in due time, will do so. As Michael Yon said, we can still turn this war around by changing the path it’s currently on. I do believe blogs like this and other voices out there all work together and help to put pressure on those in Washington to effect change where needed. Don’t give up, and don’t lose heart.
Godspeed to all of you family members of active military…my prayers are especially with you tonite.