It Takes a Licensed Village…

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Unlicensed charity worker Irish-dancing for donations (Sept. 11th victims)

Here’s another case of government over-regulating and attempting to control our lives:

It seemed like such a practical and good arrangement, the kind that moms have been making with each other since the beginning of time: One woman would watch her friends’ kids while they waited for the school bus so the other women could go to their jobs.

And then the Michigan Department of Human Services stepped in to tell the Good Samaritan mother that she was facing fines and possible jail time for running an illegal day care center.

“To me, this is just a friend helping a friend, plain and simple,” Lisa Snyder said during an interview with TODAY’s Matt Lauer from her Middleville, Mich., home Tuesday.

With Snyder were her friends and fellow moms Francie Brummel, Mindy Rose and Lori Forbes, who began the school year by dropping their kids off at Snyder’s house to wait for the school bus. With them was Michigan state Rep. Brian Calley, who is working to change a law that he and the women feel is being misapplied to punish friends and neighbors for helping each other out.

“It takes a village, but I guess in Michigan we’re saying it takes a licensed village,” Calley told Lauer, referring to the title of Hillary Clinton’s book about raising children.

An unwelcome letter

The bizarre story began on Sept. 8, the first day of school, when Brummel, Rose and Forbes dropped their young children off at Snyder’s home in a rural neighborhood to wait for the bus. The kids all regularly played together and they were at Snyder’s house for not even an hour every morning.

But just three days later, on Sept. 11, Snyder got a letter from the Michigan Department of Human Services (DHS) telling her that someone — presumably another neighbor — had complained that she was running an illegal day care center. Snyder was told that she had to either get a license to run such a service, or face fines and up to 90 days in jail.

The law, which dates back to 1973, says that anyone who watches an unrelated person’s child for a period of 28 days a year is running a day care center and has to have a license. It doesn’t matter if the child is being watched for five minutes a day or five hours.

So if you are “merely” a family friend or neighbor and happen to babysit the kid 28 days in a year or host more than one birthday party or slumber party for your own kids, you have to license your home as a daycare center?! This sounds like you could apply the same law if your own child invites a playdate to spend time over at your house, as well. (Note: I wrote this thought before reading further down)



‘Buy an umbrella’

Snyder then called the DHS to try to find out why she needed a license when she was just watching her friends’ children and wasn’t being paid.

“I started asking questions, and I told them I thought it was ridiculous,” Snyder said. “Some of the answers that they gave me, I just started getting angry, and I said, ‘I don’t agree with this.’

“I said that the children should be able to come into my house if it’s raining or there’s a snowstorm,” Snyder went on. “The lady said to me, plain and simple, ‘Tell the parents to buy an umbrella.’ She was serious.”

The supposed purpose of requiring people to file for a daycare license is what, exactly? Perhaps to create a safe and healthy environment for children? Do you suppose the state of Michigan is creating just that with this kind of braindead application of the law? Perhaps Michigan should be required to apply for a childcare license to demonstrate that it is qualified to look after the welfare of its state’s children.

Snyder also asked if the kids could come to her house for playdates. She was told that if the children’s parents were at home during the playtime it was OK, but if they dropped the kids off to play and then went to the store or out to dinner, it was no longer a playdate — it was day care.

Un…frakkin’….believable!!!!!!!!!


‘Difficult to believe’

Calley, who got involved when one of Snyder’s friends told him about the situation, agrees that it’s absurd.

“I found it very difficult to believe when I read the letter and the account of what happened,” the state legislator told Lauer. “I thought surely I must be missing something. I called the department personally, and they confirmed that the letter and everything in it was true, and that it was the position of the department that a day care license was necessary for the kids to wait for the bus in this house.”

Lauer suggested that if one of the children were injured while in Snyder’s care, there could be legal issues, and that might be a basis for the DHS position.

“I understand the idea of regulating a business in that way, but when friends are helping friends, I think parents are in much better position to determine what’s safe for their kids than the Department of Human Services,” Calley replied. “There’s no amount of testing or interviews or applications that somebody could fill out and send them to the Department of Human Services that would make them more capable of determining a safe environment for kids than the parents themselves.

FA friends and countrymen, please note: Rep. Brian Calley who serves people not politics is a Republican. *Ahem*….just sayin’….

James Gale of the Michigan Department of Human Services confirmed the facts of the case and told NBC News that the department must look into all complaints about illegal day care centers. “In the interest of protecting children, we will investigate all allegations or complaints of unlicensed child care.”

And then after investigating Snyder, DHS will have determined, out of common sense, that the complaint is misapplied, right?

Snyder is sure that one of her neighbors must have complained, but said she has no idea who it might be.

Despite the DHS warning, Snyder continues to allow two of her friends’ children to wait for the bus at her house. Brummel has stopped dropping her son off while they wait for the issue to be resolved. And Calley is working to rewrite the law to allow people who aren’t paid to look after friends’ children.

The law itself is taken way out of context. It’s meant to regulate the business of providing day care services. It’s not meant to apply to friends helping friends in this way,” Calley said. “What I’d like to do is clarify the law and take away the ability of the department to apply in this way.”

Added Forbes: “It’s not a day care — it’s a bus stop.”

This is just utter stupidity. I suppose since I help a friend carpool her child to gymnastics practice, I need at least a taxi license and a childcare license in addition to my regular driver’s license. If I get reimbursed gas money (which I don’t) or paid for my services, I suppose I’d also have to get a business license; just like kids selling lemonade on the neighborhood sidewalk. It’s not safe- either for the child or the consumer, since she could be kidnapped and the customer could get sick from spoiled lemonade or from an unsanitary lemonade stand. (I guess if I should be disallowed from giving my child’s friend any snacks, either, since I’m an unlicensed food handler).

GOOD GRIEF, GOVERNMENT!

GIVE ME A BREAK!

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On the surface it seems reasonable for Mrs. Snyder to help a friend, what the article does not state is the number of “friends” and the number of children being dropped off at her home each morning. It seems too many for her neighbors to take, thus they complained.

Where should the line be drawn? Should she be allowed to watch 3 car loads of kids, 10 car loads of kids, or is it just her right to watch as many as people drop off? Do her neighbors have no rights or do they just have to put up with having such a nice neighbor who creates such traffic in the morning around their houses?

In theory I laud her selflessness, on the other hand I wonder what caused her neighbor to complain.

When I made my satirical parody about this several years ago, I had no idea that it would come true so literally!!!!! http://www.joshallem.com/2006/06/suzys-lemonade-stand.html I just made it for laughs! But it’s come true!!!

BLAST.

To quote: “The bizarre story began on Sept. 8, the first day of school, when Brummel, Rose and Forbes dropped their young children off at Snyder’s home in a rural neighborhood to wait for the bus. The kids all regularly played together and they were at Snyder’s house for not even an hour….”

You could try reading the post firts. Where did you get “3 carloads of kids” or “10 carloads of kids”? You’re defending a fabrication taken to an extreme, which has nothing at all to do with the post. What’s the point?

In further answer to your fabricated situation, if there were, in fact, 10 carloads of RELATED children at the neighbor’s house, the law in question wouldn’t apply (this is my made up modification to you made-up situation).

In that case, I guess the neighbor would have to actually call or visit his/her neighbor and discuss the situation, like real neighbors do.

@IndieDogg:
like real neighbors do? that is ridiculous. That is why we have big government; to take care of situations like this. What is funny is that most liberals tend to be hippy’ish in their philosophy of mankind; drugs should be legal, but yet they vote for bigger and bigger government. Bigger government, smaller military, more programs to sign up for, increased money to collect for being a lazy douche. Im not a big fan of republicans either (seemed to have tapered off since Regan), but at least they don’t penalize me for realizing the american dream. Liberalism seriously is nothing short of an american communist. If it were up to them, it wouldn’t have been a neighbor reporting this infraction, but instead the gestapo or kgb-like agents.

Gee, blasted coming in to defend the govt? There’s a shock.
I also love how the victim must be the one responsible. Typical of liberals that when it’s not to their political advantage to defend the victim, they attack them. See roman polanski’s rape victim as an example.
Hey blasted, perhaps the neighbor just hates kids? Use that brain for thinking instead of as a chemistry experiment. Either that or share where we can get whatever you are on.

IndieDogg: Where did you get “3 carloads of kids” or “10 carloads of kids”? You’re defending a fabrication taken to an extreme, which has nothing at all to do with the post. What’s the point?

If you would have bothered to pay attention and read my rhetorical question about where is the line drawn… you would know I was not saying there were 3 car loads of kids or 10 car loads of kids.

IndieDogg: if there were, in fact, 10 carloads of RELATED children at the neighbor’s house, the law in question wouldn’t apply

I for sure would not want my neighbor turning their home into a daily substation for the school bus with 10 car loads of kids being dropped off, maybe you do, but that would be excessive.

Hard Right: I also love how the victim must be the one responsible.

I believe the neighbor was the victim since they called the authorities. Maybe they did not want all that traffic and all those kids around their house in the early hours. Do we know if this woman was properly watching this kids? Everyone seems to be running to her side, although she seems laudable for helping her friends, there are two sides to the coin.

Blast. The article says TWO kids.

Can you PLEASE stfu.

It takes a Government Approved Village.

How long does it take for a government worker to lose their common sense? Or is it a requirement for government employment that you can not have any common sense.

I think elected officials lose their common sense after about 3 months (if they had any to begin with), but I am not sure about the employees.

Maybe there ought to be a new law – laws are enforceable except where the laws run counter to common sense.

Patvann: Blast. The article says TWO kids.

The article says “With Snyder were her friends and fellow moms Francie Brummel, Mindy Rose and Lori Forbes, who began the school year by dropping their kids off at Snyder’s house to wait for the school bus.” So this refers to three women (not limiting it to more), and presumably each had at least one child, learn how to count!. So that does not equal two, so you stfu

Oh yeah, THREE kids are such a nuisance. Every time you post blasted, this board’s IQ goes down.
You are the atypical wannabe control freak liberal. You approve of a domineering govt. and therefore support it’s actions when your kind is in control or it does what you wish you could do. Like I said, you support the victimizer and pretend they are the victim. It’s how your kind feels good about their authoritarian beliefs/yourselves.
You are so transparent it’s sad. The only one who can’t see it is you. So really, STFU before you embarrass yourself further.

HR, you are such an idiot. I did not say 3 kids. The article was vague with how many kids and parents were actually involved. It did state the names of three additional women who dropped off their kids. It could have been more women, and god knows how many kids. Get your facts straight.

On the whole issue of victim. The neighbor who called the authorities… does that person have a right to quiet enjoyment of their property, without tons of children being dropped off in the early morning hours?

Blast.

Lets see if your pea brain can keep up…

The bus stop is in front of this radical, government-hating, perpetrator’s house.

The 3 co-conspirator’s children, whether they each have 1 kid or 12, ALL use that bus stop.

No matter what, those co-conspirators AND THEIR (3 or 36) WRETCHED SPAWN will be on that street, at the bus stop, WHETHER OR NOT THE RADICAL, FASCIST PERPETRATOR BABYSITS OR NOT.

The co-conspirators children are being watched for less than a 1/2 hour by the government-hating radical inside her home, INSTEAD OF BEING OUTSIDE.

But in your diseased mind, and in the mind of the “good-American” who evidently strives to keep us all safe from the horrors of un-licensed over-watch, it is BETTER to have the kids running around loose on the street, making kid-noises, and kid-faces while they wait for the bus, RATHER than be in the home a FRIEND they all seem to trust with their wretched rug-rats.

Your brain in a gnats ass, is akin to a BB in a boxcar.

Snyder, 35, lives in a rural subdivision in Barry County’s Irving Township about 25 miles southeast of Grand Rapids. Her tidy, comfortable three-bedroom home is a designated school bus stop. The three neighbor children she watched — plus Snyder’s first-grader, Grace — attend school about six miles away in Middleville.

The magic number is four.

The neighbor complained about four children being allowed to come inside during inclimate weather. The end of the driveway is the designated bus stop.

The gov’t bureaucrat’s advise to the parents? Buy an umbrella.

The neighbor had no grounds to complain and Dudley has made an idjit out of himself once again.

Patvann, you are perverted.

Aye. My whole point has been a neighbor was the one to complain. Why would someone complain unless there was cause. You might look at this as a nanny state issue, and maybe this woman is being wronged… I did say her actions were laudable (that means good if you did not understand), but at the same time there was a complaint from her neighbor and I posed the question about where the line is drawn? How many cars dropping off kids next door in the early morning constitutes a pain in the ass? 1, 2, 3, how many? For Mrs Snyder’s neighbor that limit was three cars per morning and the blew the whistle (that we know of). If you think that number is infinite, or people can do whatever they want let me know.

Blast, you are a flaming moron. As has been pointed out to you people DO COMPLAIN WITHOUT CAUSE. Some people are just mean spirited or bitter and enjoy crapping on others.

This is just more of you refusing to admit you are wrong and defending absurd nanny state tactics which you approve of.
The fact you have to create exaggerated scenarios and insinuate others are saying things that they are not is a clue as to how full of it you are. Now go troll elsewhere.

Blast, you stupid bastard.

The freakin cars would be there anyway because THAT’S WHERE THE G-DAMN BUS STOP IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Perverted? How the f*** does that even apply? Oh yeah…It’s coming from a dips**t.)

What a maroon Dudley is.

The bizarre story began on Sept. 8, the first day of school, when Brummel, Rose and Forbes dropped their young children off at Snyder’s home in a rural neighborhood to wait for the bus. The kids all regularly played together and they were at Snyder’s house for not even an hour every morning.

But just three days later, on Sept. 11, Snyder got a letter from the Michigan Department of Human Services (DHS) telling her that someone — presumably another neighbor — had complained that she was running an illegal day care center.

Sept. 8th? Sept. 11th? The complaint had to have been filed with only a day or two of this terrible annoyance.

Some neighbors aren’t too neighborly.

This situation is rediculous and I hope her Congressman, that is now working to change this ignorant law, can restore his constituent’s right to have guests in their homes. These children are friends of this woman’s children, she isn’t running a daycare, she’s having them in until the bus shows up, how many of us have done the same thing?

We had the bus stop in front of our home, sometimes there were as many as 8 to 10 kids in my home waiting for the bus. Some of the parents were already at work, their kids showed up earlier others came because that’s where everyone was. Sometimes kids would miss the bus and I drove them to school. You have to care enough about the kids to want to keep them safe, evidently others can’t be bothered to care if these little people are:

hit by a car at a bus stop—happens

grabbed, kidnapped—happens

suffer from indecent exposure—happens

Who would you rather have as a neighbor, the one watching over our most precious, or the one that for some twisted reason, doesn’t want a few extra kids in SOMEONE ELSES HOME?

Patvann, you still never explained lie that there were only 2 kids “Blast. The article says TWO kids.” As typical when you are full of crap you just spin and try to take the light off your total stupidity. You never addressed the central point (not that your opinion means much to me at this point) of HOW MANY cars coming up to the house, how many kids would be too many…

Hardly Right: Blast, you are a flaming moron. As has been pointed out to you people DO COMPLAIN WITHOUT CAUSE.

Yeah, people do… and do you have a crystal ball and know what precisely know what was going on at that house? I have said that Snyder might have been doing something laudable, but she could also have been less nice to her neighbor who called in on her. But in your myopic world view you are judge, jury and executioner and can’t look at alternative possibilities. Just look at the poor mother… awe… poor woman is being persecuted by the big bad old government and just for being a kind person. Awe. If a neighbor hadn’t complained and the government sent her a letter from out of the blue, I could understand that. That however is not what happened. Some near to her (who was not identified or interviewed – so that whole side of the story is missing if you hadn’t noticed) a neighbor, complained. Do you think she has a right to do whatever she wants with her property? And as I have been asking, how many kids and cars dropping off kids are too many? Since you have not much of a thinking brain and you see everything in black and white, I doubt you can answer those questions with any alacrity.

Aye, don’t you have some more charts for this?

Missy: This situation is rediculous and I hope her Congressman, that is now working to change this ignorant law, can restore his constituent’s right to have guests in their homes.

Congressman? Now this is a federal issue? So Missy, why don’t you take a stab at how many kids this woman could watch, or how many car loads would be too many. Or does she have the right to do whatever she wants with her home?

@Blast:

Aye, don’t you have some more charts for this?

Why yes Dudley, since you asked so nicely, as a matter of fact I do:

Image Source,Photobucket Uploader Firefox Extension

It’s a freakin’ BUS STOP Dudley…..a BUS STOP!

Your straw man arguments about how many kids should be allowed at the lady’s home are irrelevant…..it’s a BUS STOP with FOUR KIDS!

The kids are not there because Ms. Snyder has chosen to invite them over to hang out every day….they are there to catch the bus to gov’t schools which, as you have proven, will provide them with a less than stellar education.

This is not a private property usage question…..it’s an unreasonable nosy neighbor question.

Furthermore, the nosy neighbor as well as the worthless gov’t bureaucrat cretins who generated the letter and gave the umbrella advise had no cause of action whatsoever for four weeks after the bus pickups began.

Do, please, try harder not be such a dullard.

Aye: The kids are there not because Ms. Snyder has chosen to invite them over….they are there to catch the bus to gov’t schools which will, as you have proven, provide them with a less than stellar education.

That is just false. She was hosting the children at her house and was supervising them. Typical lies.

Aye: This is not a private property usage question…..it’s an unreasonable nosy neighbor question.

Oh. So Snyder’s neighbor is nosy because they complained about the kids there in the morning, you have very thin facts and you assume everything she has said is true. Typical for you to jump to outrageous conclusions. Must be just another conspiracy huh Aye?

Love the photo, that hurts so bad that you are so abusive… lol.

Aye, blasted is just trolling. Either that or he’s some 16 year old desperate for attention.

I’m sure we’ll see him at a pro-polanski rally seeing as how he likes to blame victims for what happened. After all, if polanski raped her she must have done something to deserve it by his “logic”.

She was hosting the children at her house and was supervising them.

You really are a full blown dumbass aren’t you? At first I thought you were putting on an act but perhaps I shouldn’t have given you the benefit of a doubt.

Ms. Snyder watches/supervises the children at the bus stop which is at the end of her driveway.

The children (all four of them) are allowed inside when it’s raining or snowing. Ms. Snyder chooses to stand outside with her first grader until the bus comes…wow, a responsible parent…what a criminal she is.

The gov’t solution?

Buy the kids some umbrellas. Let ’em stand out in the rain. That solution doesn’t resolve the fact that the children will still be waiting for the bus at the end of the driveway…just like always. The only difference is that they will be wet and/or cold.

What facts are thin here? The story has been fleshed out very well.

Show me any evidence whatsoever that Ms. Snyder invited the children over just because she wanted to.

The children are there to meet the bus and nothing has changed in that regard, nosy neighbor or not.

@ Blast

…What Aye said.

You’ve proved that you’re too stupid to to absorb anything more without your mom drawing pictures with crayons. Now stop eating paste, change your big-boy diapers, and for god’s sake, stop trying to mate with the gerbil.

Hardly Right: I’m sure we’ll see him at a pro-polanski rally seeing as how he likes to blame victims for what happened.

Wrong. Polanski plead guilty and needs to pay his debt to society by going to jail. So once again you are WRONG.

Patvann: stop trying to mate with the gerbil.

I repeat… you are perverted.

@Blast:

Congressman? Now this is a federal issue? So Missy, why don’t you take a stab at how many kids this woman could watch, or how many car loads would be too many. Or does she have the right to do whatever she wants with her home?

How do you get federal? Being as though it’s the state going after her, she appears to have contacted the right official to help her out. Did you even read the article?

A couple of reminders:

With them was Michigan state Rep. Brian Calley, who is working to change a law that he and the women feel is being misapplied to punish friends and neighbors for helping each other out.

“The law itself is taken way out of context. It’s meant to regulate the business of providing day care services. It’s not meant to apply to friends helping friends in this way,” Calley said. “What I’d like to do is clarify the law and take away the ability of the department to apply in this way.”

Car loads? What difference does it make? Maybe we should have a law to stop parents from driving their kids to school—- too many cars in the neighborhood.

I believe she has the right to have whoever she wants into her home, three children is not unreasonable. Would you stand for government telling you who and how many guests are allowed in your home? I won’t!

This law is saying that if you have an un-related child in your home more than 28 times a year you have to be licensed if their parents are not home at the time. This law is attempting to control not only this woman, it’s dictating what their parents can do while their children are visiting in that home. It’s saying Michigan citizens are not allowed to have children, other than family, visit more than 2+ days per month and you are defending this piece of crap law?

Michigan milking more taxes/ fees out of families, this is not for the well being of it’s citizens.

Missy: How do you get federal? Being as though it’s the state going after her, she appears to have contacted the right official to help her out.

Well, Missy you said in your comment# 21 “This situation is rediculous and I hope her Congressman, that is now working to change this ignorant law, can restore his constituent’s right to have guests in their homes.” So you said Congressman… which are federal if you don’t know. I read about the local represenative, I was responding to what you posted “congressman”, or did you misspeak and refer to the State Rep as “congressman”?

Missy: I believe she has the right to have whoever she wants into her home, three children is not unreasonable. Would you stand for government telling you who and how many guests are allowed in your home? I won’t!

That is plain stupid. Yes, I do think the community, through the governement can regulate what happens at peoples homes. Maybe you need to read this —> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008112632_swingersclub14m.html which outlines a couple who hosted sex parties in their home… nice huh? Not. Snyder was of course taking care of little kids, but – BUT, there are regulations about operating unlicensed child care businesses… Her neighbor felt whatever intrusion those cars and kids played somehow interfered with their quiet enjoyment of their home. I am not saying Snyder was in the wrong, but we only have 1/2 the information here. Where is the statement from the neighbor?

So if you want no government oversight in your neighborhood, then you would be ok with a sex club opening up next door.

@Blast:

I’ve read articles about this and watched Mrs. Snyder being interviewed, in the interview, she referred to Brian Calley as her congressman, so it was in my memory as such. If you had read the article you would know your question was not relevant.

Where’s the proof that she was operating a day care? The law that was taken out of context, per Brian Calley?

What’s with your problem that three cars are used to bring three children to a bus stop? If these kids go to the same school, ride the same bus, you think they just might live in the same neighborhood? That their parents would be driving past that bus stop anyway? Who owns the roads out there?

The Des Moines swingers weren’t busted for having visitors in their home, they were busted for their behavior, like, running around nude in the back yard which brought attention to sex parties. Children waiting with an adult at a bus stop or my husband and I having guests in our home isn’t quite the same thing now is it.