When you login first time using a Social Login button, we collect your account public profile information shared by Social Login provider, based on your privacy settings. We also get your email address to automatically create an account for you in our website. Once your account is created, you'll be logged-in to this account.
DisagreeAgree
Connect with
I allow to create an account
When you login first time using a Social Login button, we collect your account public profile information shared by Social Login provider, based on your privacy settings. We also get your email address to automatically create an account for you in our website. Once your account is created, you'll be logged-in to this account.
DisagreeAgree
30 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
playwithfire
14 years ago
Its on my birthday so I plan on turning it into a drinking game of some sort…
…perhaps taking a drink every time he says the words single-payer or reform. Or if im feeling really crazy, every time he says something I disagree with…
Just don’t take a drink everytime Obama uses the pronoun “I.” You’ll be drunk in five minutes.
Tibby
14 years ago
I personally like, “Liar, Liar, pants on FIRE!!”
AdrianS
14 years ago
News on the Obama trail:
(Judge is David O. Carter, United States District Court hearing arguments to determine whether Barack Obama is a natural born citizen … or not.)
“The judge, who is a former U.S. Marine, repeated several times that this is a very serious case which must be resolved quickly so that the troops know that their Commander in Chief is eligible to hold that position and issue lawful orders to our military in this time of war. He basically said Obama must prove his eligibility to the court! He said Americans deserve to know the truth about their President!
The two U.S. Attorneys representing Barack Obama tried everything they could to sway the judge that this case was frivolous, but Carter would have none of it and cut them off several times. Obama’s attorneys left the courtroom after about the 90 minute hearing looking defeated and nervous.” — quote from article listed.
Great idea to create a screen visual aid for Barry’s “Speech” tonight (make watching a little more tolerable)…below…apropos Thomas Sowell column fits perfectly into this Thread. Meshes with the “Liar! Liar! Liar!” or “Liar! Liar! Pants on Fire” banner suggestions…
“The most important thing about what anyone says are not the words themselves but the credibility of the person who says them.
The words of convicted swindler Bernie Madoff were apparently quite convincing to many people who were regarded as knowledgeable and sophisticated. If you go by words, you can be led into anything.
No doubt millions of people will be listening to the words of President Barack Obama Wednesday night when he makes a televised address to a joint session of Congress on his medical care plans. But, if they think that the words he says are what matters, they can be led into something much worse than being swindled out of their money.
One plain fact should outweigh all the words of Barack Obama and all the impressive trappings of the setting in which he says them: He tried to rush Congress into passing a massive government takeover of the nation’s medical care before the August recess— for a program that would not take effect until 2013!
Whatever President Obama is, he is not stupid. If the urgency to pass the medical care legislation was to deal with a problem immediately, then why postpone the date when the legislation goes into effect for years— more specifically, until the year after the next Presidential election?
If this is such an urgently needed program, why wait for years to put it into effect? And if the public is going to benefit from this, why not let them experience those benefits before the next Presidential election?
If it is not urgent that the legislation goes into effect immediately, then why don’t we have time to go through the normal process of holding Congressional hearings on the pros and cons, accompanied by public discussions of its innumerable provisions? What sense does it make to “hurry up and wait” on something that is literally a matter of life and death?
If we do not believe that the President is stupid, then what do we believe? The only reasonable alternative seems to be that he wanted to get this massive government takeover of medical care passed into law before the public understood what was in it.
Moreover, he wanted to get re-elected in 2012 before the public experienced what its actual consequences would be.
Unfortunately, this way of doing things is all too typical of the way this administration has acted on a wide range of issues.
Consider the “stimulus” legislation. Here the administration was successful in rushing a massive spending bill through Congress in just two days— after which it sat on the President’s desk for three days, while he was away on vacation. But, like the medical care legislation, the “stimulus” legislation takes effect slowly.
The Congressional Budget Office estimates that it will be September 2010 before even three-quarters of the money will be spent. Some economists expect that it will not all be spent by the end of 2010.
What was the rush to pass it, then? It was not to get that money out into the economy as fast as possible. It was to get that money— and the power that goes with it— into the hands of the government. Power is what politics is all about.
The worst thing that could happen, from the standpoint of those seeking more government power over the economy, would be for the economy to begin recovering on its own while months were being spent debating the need for a “stimulus” bill. As the President’s chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, said, you can’t let a crisis “go to waste” when “it’s an opportunity to do things you could not do before.”
There are lots of people in the Obama administration who want to do things that have not been done before— and to do them before the public realizes what is happening.
The proliferation of White House “czars” in charge of everything from financial issues to media issues is more of the same circumvention of the public and of the Constitution. Czars don’t have to be confirmed by the Senate, the way Cabinet members must be, even though czars may wield more power, so you may never know what these people are like, until it is too late.
What Barack Obama says Wednesday night is not nearly as important as what he has been doing— and how he has been doing it.”
SoCal Chris
14 years ago
JUST SAY NO TO SOCIALIST HEALTHCARE REFORM AND YES TO TORT REFORM!
i am personally going with the drinking game option, i figure i should be drunk shortly.
Nellie
14 years ago
WE ARE BROKE.
GO AWAY.
Gangof1
14 years ago
Nobama’s speech will have no effect. We’ve been profiting off of people’s health for too long. The market is too big, since everyone will at some point be a customer. Yes, even everyone here. Let capitalism reign! God bless the USA
Hard Right
14 years ago
Commie gang of one. Go back to DUNG. Marx is dead here.
Mr. Gray
14 years ago
Is it just me, or are the tea-partying, Anti-Obama, government hating community making a lot of noise, without saying anything at all? I hear a lot of buzzwords being thrown around like “socialism”, “Nazi”, “communist” and “Tyrant” just to name a few. Most of these so-popular words are being used outside of their definition by people who truly don’t know what they mean, just because they heard some radio talk host say it.
There is a reason your arguments are being dismissed as ignorant and fringe, because the most passionate commenters and protesters, usually make statements that are hate driven, unjustly paranoid, lack real facts, and are spoken as if the extent of your logic is OBAMA = BAD, and it makes you sound…well, ignorant.
I’m not intending to insult, but lets try to seek answers, not just ammunition. If you cant make a good argument about why you HATE our President, Barack Obama so much, that would not be directly plagiarized from your favorite Fox contributor’s telepropmter, then maybe we need to reevaluate our motives…not saying that your racist or anything.
What makes us all assume President Obama is such a liar and a crook anyway? the way he talks?… No, he is just the most elloquent and well spoken president of our lifetime. His suspect political ties? rev wright, tax delinquent appointees, and obscure comments made by loose affiliations a long time ago. Do they really compare to what we have seen recently? Bush and the saudi family, Halliburton, the bush family’s stake in the oil business. Obama doesn’t owe anybody anything except the american people… maybe it is his self-serving agenda, affordable health care for all, tax breaks for working families, expanding the middle-class. It couldn’t possibly be the way he looks…..could it?…..
@Mr. Gray: “Is it just me, or are the tea-partying, Anti-Obama, government hating community making a lot of noise, without saying anything at all? “
It’s just you Mr. Gray.
Government takeover of health care IS socialism. And the plan put forward by House Dems leads to government control.
As for the arguments being dismissed as ignorant and fringe, you might want to look at the lastest polls which show Americans do not approve of Obama’s handling of health care or the Dems plans.
As for Obama being so “elloquent” I don’t see it. The most well spoken president of MY lifetime is Ronald Reagan. Perhaps you are too young to remember.
As for your parting shot about race being the factor here, that simply confirms you as a racist demagogue and not someone that I or anyone else should take seriously.
Idiot!
Mr. Gray
14 years ago
Hannity’s America– sorry, I mean Mike’s America, how exactly is Obama proposing Government takeover of healthcare? Did you even listen to the speech, or did you spend that whole hour Yelling out “Liar!!” like your beloved congressman? To me, it sounded like he was proposing a set of federal regulations on the Health Insurance system that has been increasingly and undeniably ripping of our country’s families. It appeared to me, that his objective was stability, sustainability, and fairness. I know government is scary, and we would like to live in a country where corporations can use their financial power and influence to rape the nation because we all need their services. Maybe the solution is to give tax cuts to Blue cross, which would change the greedy, profit-clinging hearts of the executives, and they will just say. “wow, more money… lets create jobs and lower our premiums and actually cover sick people now!” We call that Reganomics right?
As far as the polls, the rational left are waiting until they get the details on the reform policies before they proclaim that they support it. However the right wing, prefers to disapporve from day one, meanwhile spread lies to turn the people actually seeking facts and details into their mindslaves. By the way, I haven’t checked yet, how have the polls changed since last nights speech?
Ronald Regan is history, and he was a tool for the big business lobby who widend the gap between the rich and the poor.
As far as race goes, I don’t like to accuse someone of racism, personally I think it is tacky and often misused. Also, ignorant rantings are not as prevelent here as they are in other parts of the blogosphere. but lets not be naieve here. we all read what people say and we saw how much this president was and is still hated by the politically uninformed. I mean, come on, when they do polls about Obama, they have to do a separate poll for the south because it is so much more negative than the rest of the country. Racism is a factor and a motive for many of the people out there. I wish it were not true but it is. Open your eyes.
@Mr. Gray: You’re a racist and a demagogue and in this last comment you double down on those negatives. As I said above, that disqualifies you from any further claim to my time, cosideration or attention.
Fool!
Mr. Gray
14 years ago
Mike’s America, I can see why you wish to end this conversation with me, I would too if I were you. I know your political views are rarely challanged on this website, I actually feel bad for disrupting the alternate reality you live in here. I can see also that since you have resorted to name calling, and illigitimate names at that, you are proclaiming intellectual defeat. I accept your apology.
My ability to recognize evident and often obvious racism does not sir, make me a racist. Its called awareness. To declare that racism does not exist in this country, makes you in fact a racist. racists often are unaware of their racism, and they often get infuriated at any suggestion that they are a racist. Now maybe this does not describe you, but if you think your sacred polls you swear by are not influenced by racism in our country, then that just makes YOU a fool.
Now, as far as demagoguery, that is the last thing you, or any of the far right should be accusing anyone of. That word absolutely sums up their current strategy of combating the current administration. Demonization, straw man tactics, and filling in missing information with misinformation. “Lets whip up these bunch of senile, uneducated farmers and tell them Obama is the illegal Immagrant, Muslim, Anti-Christ that wants to suck your fetus out after he brainwashes your students and kills your grandmother. That will work way better than the truth!!” Maybe you didn’t mean to say that word… was that another popular buzzword that you like to use improperly?
Mr. Gray: how exactly is Obama proposing Government takeover of healthcare? Did you even listen to the speech, or did you spend that whole hour Yelling out “Liar!!” like your beloved congressman?
It’s tragic that the O’healthcare spoken of by the POTUS in a joint resolution bully pulpit informercial bears no resemblence to the proposals on paper. If you believe “knowledge is power”, perhaps you should take time to read the 1000+ page HR 3200, instead of listening to the Obama selling points for fantasy legislation and fuzzy math.
There needs to be cost reform. This does not need an expensive government option, but streamlining bureaucratic costs, malpractice tort reform (since E&O makes up about 50% of medical providers costs of doing business), allowing wealthy seniors to opt out of Medicare without the Clinton mandate that they yield their SS retirement checks, allowing for more “group” plans to be created (which do not allow for denial of coverage for pre’existing conditions), and allowing direct negotiation for drug and supply purchases to lower costs. Portability would be nice, if they can figure out a way to do it without infringing on the 10th Amendment… the unspoken, unrecognized problem child with that issue.
Are any of these in the bill, Mr. Gray? Or are you less “powerful” in knowledge than you’d like us to believe?
And, of course, I’m sure you’ll call me a “racist” for expounding on these criticisms. Another tragedy… but only *if* I gave a flying fart about what you think.
@MataHarley: You know the rule with moonbats. If you feed it, you have to clean up after it.
I’d prefer to starve this one. He just drips with the anger and malice that we’ve seen all too frequently over the past years.
Funny how they won everything they ever hoped for and are still filled with bile and spouting racism at every turn.
Funny? No, perhaps I should say SAD!
Mr. Gray
14 years ago
MetaHarley, If I understand things correctly, the HR3200 is not the end-all, be-all version of Health care reform. What Obama wants for the country and what the 535 members of congress drafted up, are not parallel visions. Wasn’t that the whole purpose of the speech? Now the reforms you suggested, I think they are legitamate ideas that should be strongly considered for the final bill to be passed. Will that alone be enough? Doubtful. Do I think every line of the HR3200 is perfect? No. But shouting Socialism, and Obamacare left and right the way the right wing media does, is just not constructive and prohibits real progress in our country.
I really wish our congress worked better for us, even though we all don’t agree on all issues. I dont think satisfying most people would be a problem in most cases. Its satisfying the people who put them in office while satisfying the special interest groups and lobbyists who pad their wallets, and scoring political points to get them re-elected all at once that fouls up the process. That is true on both sides of the Isle. In this particular case, I think the “Defeat-Obama-at-all-costs” agenda and looking beyond their immediate duties to the politics of 2010, and 2012 is simply a disservice to the american people. Congress needs to stop serving themselves and start serving their constituants.
Now, My previous comments were speaking on the general political tone in this country and it makes my stomach turn. How we can all watch W. Bush inflate his executive power, wage an unjust war to finish his daddy’s business, and wipe his ass with our constitution with the Patriot Act, then turn right around and say Obama is overreaching by telling students to stay in school? (how many of you all here kept your kids home or called their school??) LOL.
Finally, why would I call you a racist for criticizing the contents of a congressional bill? It must be your conservative paranoia flaring up again.
Mr. Gray, HR 3200 and even their multiple versions bears no resemblence to Obama’s fantasy healthcare vision. It has been said by the Republicans to trash the bill, and start over. Then perhaps some items can be worked out. But that’s not Obama, nor the majority Congress’s path. He want’s passage by Nov… you cannot repair a bill that’s totaled.
The suggestions I have made are not new, and have been out there. Just not reported on since that gets in the way of facts and talking points that “the Republicans have no suggestions”.
Second of all, that “may not be enough”, but you do that first and assess it’s impact. You do know the basic rules of troubleshooting a problem… you do not make multiple changes because you don’t know what worked, and what didn’t… thereby not finding the original problem.
First you implement the changes to the actual costs of health care using the private market. You do not decrease costs by creating 54 new government departments as a middle man. Insanity.
Now, My previous comments were speaking on the general political tone in this country and it makes my stomach turn. How we can all watch W. Bush inflate his executive power, wage an unjust war to finish his daddy’s business, and wipe his ass with our constitution with the Patriot Act, then turn right around and say Obama is overreaching by telling students to stay in school? (how many of you all here kept your kids home or called their school??) LOL.
I agree that Bush inflated fed power with TARP. But for whatever increase he did, Obama has dwarfed that four times over in a matter of months…. as well as the budget.
As for your war comments… no surprise hearing that from you. Rest assured you’ve just blown your “knowledge is power” reference to yourself, and I’m not here to argue the merits the global theatres of war with you.
But I will take extreme exception to your deliberate mischaracterization of the Obama school speech. The bone of contention was never that he spoke to students, or encouraged them to stay in school or contemplate their futures. It was his Dept of Ed’s accompanying curriculum to teachers that suggested the student exercise of writing letters to themselves saying how they could “help Obama”, the teacher collecting them and redistributing them later to hold them accountable for “helping Obama”.
Our schools and our children are not political campaign tools. Having students support their country, it’s founding concepts, or even pondering their own goals is appropriate. To have them pledge support to a politician is propaganda.
Apparently, since Arne Duncan changed the curriculum to writing letters on their own futures instead, they thought better about being caught in their political community organizing quest using our public schools.
So if you’re planning on future rants, I would appreciate even a modicum of truth to your talking points.
As for my “conservative paranoia”, don’t flatter yourself as having the slightest bit of influence as to make me “paranoid”. You are but a gnat on an elephants butt of import in my life. However it doesn’t appear you always wait to hear about why I (or anyone else) do hate this President. And mind you, this is a first for me. I’ve disagreed with Presidents before, but never hated one.
My unmitigated hate and disdain is for his arrogance and disregard for our founding principles, and his quest for a Euro-socialist remaking of America. This hatred has nothing to do with his race, but his ideology. My criticism is loud and long for his plans, yet when I criticize, I have too many people like you who suggest I, or others, suffer from some sort of stealth racism. Interesting concept since the people who delve into races and classes of people, neatly dividing them into sections, is the liberal progressives. Comes in handy for them to muddy the waters, and get Americans to turn on each other instead of those who really threaten us… the elected ones on both sides of the aisle who seek unchecked power, and lie looking us straight in the face… as this POTUS does daily.
speaking on the general political tone in this country and it makes my stomach turn.
Is followed by
How we can all watch W. Bush inflate his executive power, wage an unjust war to finish his daddy’s business, and wipe his ass with our constitution with the Patriot Act
A perfect example of what I said earlier about a Dem still so filled with hate and rage that he deserves no place in polite society.
@Mr Grey, or should it be “Just MoveOn.org”
If the South is so racist…how come the KKK is alive and well in
illinois? And is/was in the past decade the state with the most members?
Maybe you should look it up before hurling accusations…makes you sound
very prejudice and racist against Southerners.
Also, genius — do you realize the number of NEasterners/Midwesterners who have migrated to
the Carolinas, Georgia, Florida, Texas within the past 5 years? Maybe they know something
you don’t about quality of life and the advantages of lower taxes? These transplants also
take part in polls in their new Southern home states…..whoops! looks like your argument
is full of holes.
Louisiana is also starting to attract new residents with their reduction in taxes — thanks to the new Republican Leadership in that state..and Gov Barber is out and about bringing in new business — through incentives…meantime…remind me of what is happening in New York, Michigan, New Jersey to name a few heavily taxed+ states…
Lastly, how come the left has had a former KKK Grand Dragon as a Democrat Senatorial
Leader–until this congress — when he stepped down because of age?
Thanks for the laugh…
Mr. Gray
14 years ago
Hi American Voter! I’m reading your post over and over and I’m trying to figure out how your areguements are relevant to anything I said previously… What the hell does the KKK have to do with anything? Racism is not like Sam’s Club, you don’t need a membership to participate.
You must be right about me being prejudice against southerners, as a South Carolina resident, I’m hating myself right now! In fact I’m one of those transplats you speak of! I’m afraid however, we don’t make up a significant percentage of the polls, but nice try. Many rural southern residents have never been out of their own county. Yes, taxes are lower here, ok, but we also have the 6th highest unemployment rate and a douche-bag republican governor who refused unemployment money for his state, abandoned his dutys for a week to go cheat on his wife on fathers day with MY tax dollars- and refuses to resign. (Conservative Christian Values ladies and gentleman) As far as the quality of life I supposedly don’t know about, I have never seen so much poverty anywhere in my life. The real confusing part, is why the folks I see living in a rusted out trailer living off disability and have nothing, are die hard Republicans, when the republican party could care less about their plight.
I’m not hurling accusations at anybody, I’m just stating whats real. There are generations and generations of southern white families who were raised to believe they were superior to minorities, no big deal right, it was politically correct up until what… 40-50 years ago? There are voters alive to this day who in their younger years openly terrorized blacks because it was OK at the time. You may have seen one at your local tea party… I’m just saying people, lets remember our American Heritage. Racism is part of it. We as Americans are not proud of that, (most of us) but it is as real as the Revolution. To say it is not a factor in today’s politics, when we have a black (half black) president, who is the most demonized and vocally opposed since even before he took office, is just….whats the word…..ignorant.
As far as the KKK Grand Dragon in congress… Gee, I didn’t even know about that. But it makes me think, if you all who knew about it got as outraged about him as you did about Rev. Wright, maybe he wouldn’t been in there so long, huh? Maybe to you it’s less outrageous.
@ Mikes America, I thought you were going to give me the silent treatment… It’s cute though how you dissected my comment to make an illigitamate point about me. Folks, read post 20, and you’ll know what I meant.
@Mr. Gray: I never said I was going to give you the silent treatment. I only made it clear that I find you beneath contempt and totally undeserving of the consideration I might give towards another lib commenter.
And now you attack my native state? Why don’t you get the F#$@ out! We don’t need any more lib transplants here.
Mr. Gray
14 years ago
Mike, Mike… wow man, take it easy… your showing your “hate and rage that deserves no place in a polite society” I must have struck a nerve with that last one. Did I hit a little too close to home? I’m not out to hurt anyones feelings. I am glad to see that you didn’t disagree with me this time. Maybe we have more in common than you think…
Hard Right
14 years ago
Gray, you are a hypocrite. You are here to stalk Mike and spew hate. Then you want to criticize him for responding to you after being provoked. ESAD troll.
Mr. Gray
14 years ago
Hard Right, My first post here was a general statement directed at no one. Mike took it upon himself to respond to me with what was, in my opinion resonable arguments until he called me a racist demagogue and an Idiot. I respoded accordingly. I wouldn’t say I’m stalking or provoking anyone and I really dont think I’m spewing hate. I’m saying things you don’t want to hear, and presenting opinions that are different than yours, but I don’t hate anyone. I come here with an open mind and actually learn from your presented facts opposing opinions; but if I feel I’m being attacked, I’ll call you out on it.
Hard Right
14 years ago
You are being a stalker and a moonbat. You aren’t fooling anyone. You vomit out the usual leftist talking points ad nauseum. Your kind talks AT people and not to them.
I agree with Mike. You are a waste of time and will add a waste of flesh…oxygen…
Feel free to whine to your fellow koslims about how “uncivil” we wingnuts are.
@Mr Grey,
If you truly hate the South, MOVE or run for office, promote a candidate with your views and help change it to your ideal…and make it a better place! Not every corner of our country appeals to everyone!
I was a military brat and have lived virtually all over the country/world. As an adult, my professional life has involved 8 diverse location transfers. I can tell you, with conviction, the world is not a perfect place — in any corner — and it seems to be a human trait to push back on those different from us..but I think that is a life lesson we need to learn, as well as how to overcome those feelings.
I graduated from high school in Texas — with classmates of all races, very equally represented — we got along great!! I was surprised to travel to other areas of the country/world — and not see the same interaction — mostly in my travels outside of southern USA and in other countries.
If the races were not getting along? Why are we more of a melting pot than ever? By the end of this century, it is predicted we will be called North Americans — not caucasian, asian, latin, hispanic, black, native american — etc
As much as I would love to stay and banter(not), I am on my way to Washington DC, driving up in a caravan of cars — I am exercising my convictions — not just talking about them.
Life is also too short to be so angry and prejudice about others…Try and find some good in life and others every day and not be so angry — maybe the website below might help you.
Its on my birthday so I plan on turning it into a drinking game of some sort…
…perhaps taking a drink every time he says the words single-payer or reform. Or if im feeling really crazy, every time he says something I disagree with…
Just don’t take a drink everytime Obama uses the pronoun “I.” You’ll be drunk in five minutes.
I personally like, “Liar, Liar, pants on FIRE!!”
News on the Obama trail:
(Judge is David O. Carter, United States District Court hearing arguments to determine whether Barack Obama is a natural born citizen … or not.)
“The judge, who is a former U.S. Marine, repeated several times that this is a very serious case which must be resolved quickly so that the troops know that their Commander in Chief is eligible to hold that position and issue lawful orders to our military in this time of war. He basically said Obama must prove his eligibility to the court! He said Americans deserve to know the truth about their President!
The two U.S. Attorneys representing Barack Obama tried everything they could to sway the judge that this case was frivolous, but Carter would have none of it and cut them off several times. Obama’s attorneys left the courtroom after about the 90 minute hearing looking defeated and nervous.” — quote from article listed.
http://www.therightsideoflife.com/?p=7194
Shuck and jive act now playing.
Great idea to create a screen visual aid for Barry’s “Speech” tonight (make watching a little more tolerable)…below…apropos Thomas Sowell column fits perfectly into this Thread. Meshes with the “Liar! Liar! Liar!” or “Liar! Liar! Pants on Fire” banner suggestions…
———————————————————————————————-
http://www.tsowell.com/columns.htm
———————————————————————————————-
Listening to a Liar by Dr Thomas Sowell
“The most important thing about what anyone says are not the words themselves but the credibility of the person who says them.
The words of convicted swindler Bernie Madoff were apparently quite convincing to many people who were regarded as knowledgeable and sophisticated. If you go by words, you can be led into anything.
No doubt millions of people will be listening to the words of President Barack Obama Wednesday night when he makes a televised address to a joint session of Congress on his medical care plans. But, if they think that the words he says are what matters, they can be led into something much worse than being swindled out of their money.
One plain fact should outweigh all the words of Barack Obama and all the impressive trappings of the setting in which he says them: He tried to rush Congress into passing a massive government takeover of the nation’s medical care before the August recess— for a program that would not take effect until 2013!
Whatever President Obama is, he is not stupid. If the urgency to pass the medical care legislation was to deal with a problem immediately, then why postpone the date when the legislation goes into effect for years— more specifically, until the year after the next Presidential election?
If this is such an urgently needed program, why wait for years to put it into effect? And if the public is going to benefit from this, why not let them experience those benefits before the next Presidential election?
If it is not urgent that the legislation goes into effect immediately, then why don’t we have time to go through the normal process of holding Congressional hearings on the pros and cons, accompanied by public discussions of its innumerable provisions? What sense does it make to “hurry up and wait” on something that is literally a matter of life and death?
If we do not believe that the President is stupid, then what do we believe? The only reasonable alternative seems to be that he wanted to get this massive government takeover of medical care passed into law before the public understood what was in it.
Moreover, he wanted to get re-elected in 2012 before the public experienced what its actual consequences would be.
Unfortunately, this way of doing things is all too typical of the way this administration has acted on a wide range of issues.
Consider the “stimulus” legislation. Here the administration was successful in rushing a massive spending bill through Congress in just two days— after which it sat on the President’s desk for three days, while he was away on vacation. But, like the medical care legislation, the “stimulus” legislation takes effect slowly.
The Congressional Budget Office estimates that it will be September 2010 before even three-quarters of the money will be spent. Some economists expect that it will not all be spent by the end of 2010.
What was the rush to pass it, then? It was not to get that money out into the economy as fast as possible. It was to get that money— and the power that goes with it— into the hands of the government. Power is what politics is all about.
The worst thing that could happen, from the standpoint of those seeking more government power over the economy, would be for the economy to begin recovering on its own while months were being spent debating the need for a “stimulus” bill. As the President’s chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, said, you can’t let a crisis “go to waste” when “it’s an opportunity to do things you could not do before.”
There are lots of people in the Obama administration who want to do things that have not been done before— and to do them before the public realizes what is happening.
The proliferation of White House “czars” in charge of everything from financial issues to media issues is more of the same circumvention of the public and of the Constitution. Czars don’t have to be confirmed by the Senate, the way Cabinet members must be, even though czars may wield more power, so you may never know what these people are like, until it is too late.
What Barack Obama says Wednesday night is not nearly as important as what he has been doing— and how he has been doing it.”
JUST SAY NO TO SOCIALIST HEALTHCARE REFORM AND YES TO TORT REFORM!
Don’t forget welcome to the twilight zone.
i am personally going with the drinking game option, i figure i should be drunk shortly.
WE ARE BROKE.
GO AWAY.
Nobama’s speech will have no effect. We’ve been profiting off of people’s health for too long. The market is too big, since everyone will at some point be a customer. Yes, even everyone here. Let capitalism reign! God bless the USA
Commie gang of one. Go back to DUNG. Marx is dead here.
Is it just me, or are the tea-partying, Anti-Obama, government hating community making a lot of noise, without saying anything at all? I hear a lot of buzzwords being thrown around like “socialism”, “Nazi”, “communist” and “Tyrant” just to name a few. Most of these so-popular words are being used outside of their definition by people who truly don’t know what they mean, just because they heard some radio talk host say it.
There is a reason your arguments are being dismissed as ignorant and fringe, because the most passionate commenters and protesters, usually make statements that are hate driven, unjustly paranoid, lack real facts, and are spoken as if the extent of your logic is OBAMA = BAD, and it makes you sound…well, ignorant.
I’m not intending to insult, but lets try to seek answers, not just ammunition. If you cant make a good argument about why you HATE our President, Barack Obama so much, that would not be directly plagiarized from your favorite Fox contributor’s telepropmter, then maybe we need to reevaluate our motives…not saying that your racist or anything.
What makes us all assume President Obama is such a liar and a crook anyway? the way he talks?… No, he is just the most elloquent and well spoken president of our lifetime. His suspect political ties? rev wright, tax delinquent appointees, and obscure comments made by loose affiliations a long time ago. Do they really compare to what we have seen recently? Bush and the saudi family, Halliburton, the bush family’s stake in the oil business. Obama doesn’t owe anybody anything except the american people… maybe it is his self-serving agenda, affordable health care for all, tax breaks for working families, expanding the middle-class. It couldn’t possibly be the way he looks…..could it?…..
@Mr. Gray: “Is it just me, or are the tea-partying, Anti-Obama, government hating community making a lot of noise, without saying anything at all? “
It’s just you Mr. Gray.
Government takeover of health care IS socialism. And the plan put forward by House Dems leads to government control.
As for the arguments being dismissed as ignorant and fringe, you might want to look at the lastest polls which show Americans do not approve of Obama’s handling of health care or the Dems plans.
As for Obama being so “elloquent” I don’t see it. The most well spoken president of MY lifetime is Ronald Reagan. Perhaps you are too young to remember.
As for your parting shot about race being the factor here, that simply confirms you as a racist demagogue and not someone that I or anyone else should take seriously.
Idiot!
Hannity’s America– sorry, I mean Mike’s America, how exactly is Obama proposing Government takeover of healthcare? Did you even listen to the speech, or did you spend that whole hour Yelling out “Liar!!” like your beloved congressman? To me, it sounded like he was proposing a set of federal regulations on the Health Insurance system that has been increasingly and undeniably ripping of our country’s families. It appeared to me, that his objective was stability, sustainability, and fairness. I know government is scary, and we would like to live in a country where corporations can use their financial power and influence to rape the nation because we all need their services. Maybe the solution is to give tax cuts to Blue cross, which would change the greedy, profit-clinging hearts of the executives, and they will just say. “wow, more money… lets create jobs and lower our premiums and actually cover sick people now!” We call that Reganomics right?
As far as the polls, the rational left are waiting until they get the details on the reform policies before they proclaim that they support it. However the right wing, prefers to disapporve from day one, meanwhile spread lies to turn the people actually seeking facts and details into their mindslaves. By the way, I haven’t checked yet, how have the polls changed since last nights speech?
Ronald Regan is history, and he was a tool for the big business lobby who widend the gap between the rich and the poor.
As far as race goes, I don’t like to accuse someone of racism, personally I think it is tacky and often misused. Also, ignorant rantings are not as prevelent here as they are in other parts of the blogosphere. but lets not be naieve here. we all read what people say and we saw how much this president was and is still hated by the politically uninformed. I mean, come on, when they do polls about Obama, they have to do a separate poll for the south because it is so much more negative than the rest of the country. Racism is a factor and a motive for many of the people out there. I wish it were not true but it is. Open your eyes.
Idiot.
@Mr. Gray: You’re a racist and a demagogue and in this last comment you double down on those negatives. As I said above, that disqualifies you from any further claim to my time, cosideration or attention.
Fool!
Mike’s America, I can see why you wish to end this conversation with me, I would too if I were you. I know your political views are rarely challanged on this website, I actually feel bad for disrupting the alternate reality you live in here. I can see also that since you have resorted to name calling, and illigitimate names at that, you are proclaiming intellectual defeat. I accept your apology.
My ability to recognize evident and often obvious racism does not sir, make me a racist. Its called awareness. To declare that racism does not exist in this country, makes you in fact a racist. racists often are unaware of their racism, and they often get infuriated at any suggestion that they are a racist. Now maybe this does not describe you, but if you think your sacred polls you swear by are not influenced by racism in our country, then that just makes YOU a fool.
Now, as far as demagoguery, that is the last thing you, or any of the far right should be accusing anyone of. That word absolutely sums up their current strategy of combating the current administration. Demonization, straw man tactics, and filling in missing information with misinformation. “Lets whip up these bunch of senile, uneducated farmers and tell them Obama is the illegal Immagrant, Muslim, Anti-Christ that wants to suck your fetus out after he brainwashes your students and kills your grandmother. That will work way better than the truth!!” Maybe you didn’t mean to say that word… was that another popular buzzword that you like to use improperly?
Knowledge is power.
It’s tragic that the O’healthcare spoken of by the POTUS in a joint resolution bully pulpit informercial bears no resemblence to the proposals on paper. If you believe “knowledge is power”, perhaps you should take time to read the 1000+ page HR 3200, instead of listening to the Obama selling points for fantasy legislation and fuzzy math.
There needs to be cost reform. This does not need an expensive government option, but streamlining bureaucratic costs, malpractice tort reform (since E&O makes up about 50% of medical providers costs of doing business), allowing wealthy seniors to opt out of Medicare without the Clinton mandate that they yield their SS retirement checks, allowing for more “group” plans to be created (which do not allow for denial of coverage for pre’existing conditions), and allowing direct negotiation for drug and supply purchases to lower costs. Portability would be nice, if they can figure out a way to do it without infringing on the 10th Amendment… the unspoken, unrecognized problem child with that issue.
Are any of these in the bill, Mr. Gray? Or are you less “powerful” in knowledge than you’d like us to believe?
And, of course, I’m sure you’ll call me a “racist” for expounding on these criticisms. Another tragedy… but only *if* I gave a flying fart about what you think.
@MataHarley: You know the rule with moonbats. If you feed it, you have to clean up after it.
I’d prefer to starve this one. He just drips with the anger and malice that we’ve seen all too frequently over the past years.
Funny how they won everything they ever hoped for and are still filled with bile and spouting racism at every turn.
Funny? No, perhaps I should say SAD!
MetaHarley, If I understand things correctly, the HR3200 is not the end-all, be-all version of Health care reform. What Obama wants for the country and what the 535 members of congress drafted up, are not parallel visions. Wasn’t that the whole purpose of the speech? Now the reforms you suggested, I think they are legitamate ideas that should be strongly considered for the final bill to be passed. Will that alone be enough? Doubtful. Do I think every line of the HR3200 is perfect? No. But shouting Socialism, and Obamacare left and right the way the right wing media does, is just not constructive and prohibits real progress in our country.
I really wish our congress worked better for us, even though we all don’t agree on all issues. I dont think satisfying most people would be a problem in most cases. Its satisfying the people who put them in office while satisfying the special interest groups and lobbyists who pad their wallets, and scoring political points to get them re-elected all at once that fouls up the process. That is true on both sides of the Isle. In this particular case, I think the “Defeat-Obama-at-all-costs” agenda and looking beyond their immediate duties to the politics of 2010, and 2012 is simply a disservice to the american people. Congress needs to stop serving themselves and start serving their constituants.
Now, My previous comments were speaking on the general political tone in this country and it makes my stomach turn. How we can all watch W. Bush inflate his executive power, wage an unjust war to finish his daddy’s business, and wipe his ass with our constitution with the Patriot Act, then turn right around and say Obama is overreaching by telling students to stay in school? (how many of you all here kept your kids home or called their school??) LOL.
Finally, why would I call you a racist for criticizing the contents of a congressional bill? It must be your conservative paranoia flaring up again.
Mr. Gray, HR 3200 and even their multiple versions bears no resemblence to Obama’s fantasy healthcare vision. It has been said by the Republicans to trash the bill, and start over. Then perhaps some items can be worked out. But that’s not Obama, nor the majority Congress’s path. He want’s passage by Nov… you cannot repair a bill that’s totaled.
The suggestions I have made are not new, and have been out there. Just not reported on since that gets in the way of facts and talking points that “the Republicans have no suggestions”.
Second of all, that “may not be enough”, but you do that first and assess it’s impact. You do know the basic rules of troubleshooting a problem… you do not make multiple changes because you don’t know what worked, and what didn’t… thereby not finding the original problem.
First you implement the changes to the actual costs of health care using the private market. You do not decrease costs by creating 54 new government departments as a middle man. Insanity.
I agree that Bush inflated fed power with TARP. But for whatever increase he did, Obama has dwarfed that four times over in a matter of months…. as well as the budget.
As for your war comments… no surprise hearing that from you. Rest assured you’ve just blown your “knowledge is power” reference to yourself, and I’m not here to argue the merits the global theatres of war with you.
But I will take extreme exception to your deliberate mischaracterization of the Obama school speech. The bone of contention was never that he spoke to students, or encouraged them to stay in school or contemplate their futures. It was his Dept of Ed’s accompanying curriculum to teachers that suggested the student exercise of writing letters to themselves saying how they could “help Obama”, the teacher collecting them and redistributing them later to hold them accountable for “helping Obama”.
Our schools and our children are not political campaign tools. Having students support their country, it’s founding concepts, or even pondering their own goals is appropriate. To have them pledge support to a politician is propaganda.
Apparently, since Arne Duncan changed the curriculum to writing letters on their own futures instead, they thought better about being caught in their political community organizing quest using our public schools.
So if you’re planning on future rants, I would appreciate even a modicum of truth to your talking points.
As for my “conservative paranoia”, don’t flatter yourself as having the slightest bit of influence as to make me “paranoid”. You are but a gnat on an elephants butt of import in my life. However it doesn’t appear you always wait to hear about why I (or anyone else) do hate this President. And mind you, this is a first for me. I’ve disagreed with Presidents before, but never hated one.
My unmitigated hate and disdain is for his arrogance and disregard for our founding principles, and his quest for a Euro-socialist remaking of America. This hatred has nothing to do with his race, but his ideology. My criticism is loud and long for his plans, yet when I criticize, I have too many people like you who suggest I, or others, suffer from some sort of stealth racism. Interesting concept since the people who delve into races and classes of people, neatly dividing them into sections, is the liberal progressives. Comes in handy for them to muddy the waters, and get Americans to turn on each other instead of those who really threaten us… the elected ones on both sides of the aisle who seek unchecked power, and lie looking us straight in the face… as this POTUS does daily.
Is followed by
A perfect example of what I said earlier about a Dem still so filled with hate and rage that he deserves no place in polite society.
@Mr Grey, or should it be “Just MoveOn.org”
If the South is so racist…how come the KKK is alive and well in
illinois? And is/was in the past decade the state with the most members?
Maybe you should look it up before hurling accusations…makes you sound
very prejudice and racist against Southerners.
Also, genius — do you realize the number of NEasterners/Midwesterners who have migrated to
the Carolinas, Georgia, Florida, Texas within the past 5 years? Maybe they know something
you don’t about quality of life and the advantages of lower taxes? These transplants also
take part in polls in their new Southern home states…..whoops! looks like your argument
is full of holes.
Louisiana is also starting to attract new residents with their reduction in taxes — thanks to the new Republican Leadership in that state..and Gov Barber is out and about bringing in new business — through incentives…meantime…remind me of what is happening in New York, Michigan, New Jersey to name a few heavily taxed+ states…
Lastly, how come the left has had a former KKK Grand Dragon as a Democrat Senatorial
Leader–until this congress — when he stepped down because of age?
Thanks for the laugh…
Hi American Voter! I’m reading your post over and over and I’m trying to figure out how your areguements are relevant to anything I said previously… What the hell does the KKK have to do with anything? Racism is not like Sam’s Club, you don’t need a membership to participate.
You must be right about me being prejudice against southerners, as a South Carolina resident, I’m hating myself right now! In fact I’m one of those transplats you speak of! I’m afraid however, we don’t make up a significant percentage of the polls, but nice try. Many rural southern residents have never been out of their own county. Yes, taxes are lower here, ok, but we also have the 6th highest unemployment rate and a douche-bag republican governor who refused unemployment money for his state, abandoned his dutys for a week to go cheat on his wife on fathers day with MY tax dollars- and refuses to resign. (Conservative Christian Values ladies and gentleman) As far as the quality of life I supposedly don’t know about, I have never seen so much poverty anywhere in my life. The real confusing part, is why the folks I see living in a rusted out trailer living off disability and have nothing, are die hard Republicans, when the republican party could care less about their plight.
I’m not hurling accusations at anybody, I’m just stating whats real. There are generations and generations of southern white families who were raised to believe they were superior to minorities, no big deal right, it was politically correct up until what… 40-50 years ago? There are voters alive to this day who in their younger years openly terrorized blacks because it was OK at the time. You may have seen one at your local tea party… I’m just saying people, lets remember our American Heritage. Racism is part of it. We as Americans are not proud of that, (most of us) but it is as real as the Revolution. To say it is not a factor in today’s politics, when we have a black (half black) president, who is the most demonized and vocally opposed since even before he took office, is just….whats the word…..ignorant.
As far as the KKK Grand Dragon in congress… Gee, I didn’t even know about that. But it makes me think, if you all who knew about it got as outraged about him as you did about Rev. Wright, maybe he wouldn’t been in there so long, huh? Maybe to you it’s less outrageous.
@ Mikes America, I thought you were going to give me the silent treatment… It’s cute though how you dissected my comment to make an illigitamate point about me. Folks, read post 20, and you’ll know what I meant.
@Mr. Gray: I never said I was going to give you the silent treatment. I only made it clear that I find you beneath contempt and totally undeserving of the consideration I might give towards another lib commenter.
And now you attack my native state? Why don’t you get the F#$@ out! We don’t need any more lib transplants here.
Mike, Mike… wow man, take it easy… your showing your “hate and rage that deserves no place in a polite society” I must have struck a nerve with that last one. Did I hit a little too close to home? I’m not out to hurt anyones feelings. I am glad to see that you didn’t disagree with me this time. Maybe we have more in common than you think…
Gray, you are a hypocrite. You are here to stalk Mike and spew hate. Then you want to criticize him for responding to you after being provoked. ESAD troll.
Hard Right, My first post here was a general statement directed at no one. Mike took it upon himself to respond to me with what was, in my opinion resonable arguments until he called me a racist demagogue and an Idiot. I respoded accordingly. I wouldn’t say I’m stalking or provoking anyone and I really dont think I’m spewing hate. I’m saying things you don’t want to hear, and presenting opinions that are different than yours, but I don’t hate anyone. I come here with an open mind and actually learn from your presented facts opposing opinions; but if I feel I’m being attacked, I’ll call you out on it.
You are being a stalker and a moonbat. You aren’t fooling anyone. You vomit out the usual leftist talking points ad nauseum. Your kind talks AT people and not to them.
I agree with Mike. You are a waste of time and will add a waste of flesh…oxygen…
Feel free to whine to your fellow koslims about how “uncivil” we wingnuts are.
@Mr Grey,
If you truly hate the South, MOVE or run for office, promote a candidate with your views and help change it to your ideal…and make it a better place! Not every corner of our country appeals to everyone!
I was a military brat and have lived virtually all over the country/world. As an adult, my professional life has involved 8 diverse location transfers. I can tell you, with conviction, the world is not a perfect place — in any corner — and it seems to be a human trait to push back on those different from us..but I think that is a life lesson we need to learn, as well as how to overcome those feelings.
I graduated from high school in Texas — with classmates of all races, very equally represented — we got along great!! I was surprised to travel to other areas of the country/world — and not see the same interaction — mostly in my travels outside of southern USA and in other countries.
If the races were not getting along? Why are we more of a melting pot than ever? By the end of this century, it is predicted we will be called North Americans — not caucasian, asian, latin, hispanic, black, native american — etc
As much as I would love to stay and banter(not), I am on my way to Washington DC, driving up in a caravan of cars — I am exercising my convictions — not just talking about them.
Life is also too short to be so angry and prejudice about others…Try and find some good in life and others every day and not be so angry — maybe the website below might help you.
http://work911.com/anger/