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German Nazi euthanasia propaganda
The poster argued in so many words that the care of each “undesirable” cost the “undue burden” of 60,000 marks of German taxpayer money over the patient’s lifetime, and that a publication called the New Folk contained a better – indeed, a “final” – solution to the difficulty.
Sound familiar?
PB
14 years ago
Can anyone find a direct link to this information in the AMA Journal? If this is a true accounting of what Ezekiel Emanuel espouses, then the president has some explaining to to.
crosspatch
14 years ago
““D” after your name on the voter registation roles, what do you bet your chances of receiving care will be?”
Or if there is an R after your name, what do you bet your chances of having your medical history leaked during a campaign will be?
The Joe The Plumber experience taught us what can happen when you have partisans in positions to peruse records and if the government will, under this plan, get access to everyone’s medical AND financial records, the risk is just too great for abuse.
I can see it now … “Candidate saw psychiatrist 20 years ago, had STD when in college!”.
ICanCopyAndPasteToo
14 years ago
You can read the Hastings Report where he said:
… services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia.
but he also finished the paragraph by saying:
A less obvious example is guaranteeing neuropsychological services to ensure children with learning disabilities can read and learn to reason.
I read somewhere that when the Nazis started implementing that on Germans, the German people got so angry the Nazis stopped. Just goes to show, if they wanted to stop the gassing of Jews, they could have.
But the Nazis euthanasia was very blatant, where Obama’s isn’t an active murder of the old, just withhold treatment and let them die, so maybe he can sneak it on by?
Let’s see. Withholding medical care to those who would be considered squandering it….
1. It could backfire and cut medical care to the gay community. After all, we can greatly stop the spread of AIDS in the USA if the gays had self control. Why cure AIDS if it can be minimized or practically eliminated by self control? Imagine the money saved!
2. Next stop would the black community. If you are caught doing something wrong, convicted, and put in prison… under this plan you would just rot while you are there. Especially if you are on death row.
3. If you are on welfare, and HAVE BEEN for a long time (lazy you!), then your health care should be cut too, because you are not contributing to the common good either — you are just a taker.
4. If you are an alcoholic/drug user/etc. then you would be denied help too. Because let’s face it, you’ll be wasting all that precious medical knowledge that was applied to your body only to drink another beer, or take another hit on dope.
So ironically, this whole process will benefit the middle class ‘average joe’ folk who have to work for a living. Now that’s a change.
Yeah, but Steve, get real. That’s their voting base your talking about, you know, like all those illegal aliens who we would have to pay for. No, they may be stupid, but they aren’t THAT stupid, yet.
… services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia.
A less obvious example is guaranteeing neuropsychological services to ensure children with learning disabilities can read and learn to reason.
I have to admit that after reading those two paragraphs in the linked reports, I feel physically ill.
If we, as a society, get to the point where it is considered acceptable or normal to pick and choose who will receive or not receive health care based on economics or the patients’ ability to be a productive, participating citizen that will be the day that our society has doomed itself.
Unfortunately, we have already opened the door by allowing the unborn to be targeted in this way.
So, if a child is not aborted, Emanuel says that it’s OK to not guarantee medial care to that child.
If a person’s burden on society becomes heavier than their contribution to society, then it’s OK to not guarantee medical care.
So far, only the young and the elderly have been singled out. How soon before those ideas spread to the point that they affect a wider range?
This smells of eugenics. This smells of the heinous, unspeakable acts of prior despots.
Ladies and gentlemen I simply have to call this by its’ name: EVIL.
There really is just no other word to describe it, and I find it chilling.
PB
14 years ago
Thanks for the links. I tried to do some searches, but got buried in results. ICanCopyAndPasteToo added this link: http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/PIIS0140673609601379.pdf and I have copied some of the critical information below. The article discusses different methods of determining who gets health care (beside Ted Kennedy) and who shouldn’t. The authors came to a conclusion that is very scary and as other posters have noted, the conclusions are rooted in Nazi Germany. Note – the numbers are references to their footnotes, but you can get the gist of what they are saying. For us that are nearing retirement age or may have had health issues in the past, we are toast (or soylent green).
Because none of the currently used systems satisfy all
ethical requirements for just allocation, we propose an
alternative: the complete lives system. This system
incorporates five principles (table 2): youngest-fi rst,
prognosis, save the most lives, lottery, and instrumental
value. As such, it prioritises younger people who have not
yet lived a complete life and will be unlikely to do so
without aid. Many thinkers have accepted complete lives
as the appropriate focus of distributive justice: “individual
human lives, rather than individual experiences, [are] the
units over which any distributive principle should
operate.”1,75,76 Although there are important diff erences
between these thinkers, they share a core commitment to
consider entire lives rather than events or episodes, which
is also the defining feature of the complete lives system.
Consideration of the importance of complete lives also
supports modifying the youngest-fi rst principle by
prioritising adolescents and young adults over infants
(fi gure). Adolescents have received substantial education
and parental care, investments that will be wasted without
a complete life. Infants, by contrast, have not yet received
these investments. Similarly, adolescence brings with it a
developed personality capable of forming and valuing
long-term plans whose fulfi lment requires a complete
life.77 As the legal philosopher Ronald Dworkin argues, “It
is terrible when an infant dies, but worse, most people
think, when a three-year-old child dies and worse still when
an adolescent does”;78 this argument is supported by
empirical surveys.41,79 Importantly, the prioritisation of
adolescents and young adults considers the social and
personal investment that people are morally entitled to
have received at a particular age, rather than accepting the
results of an unjust status quo. Consequently, poor
adolescents should be treated the same as wealthy ones,
even though they may have received less investment owing
to social injustice.
Ladies and gentlemen I simply have to call this by its’ name: EVIL.
Yes, that’s what it is, all right.
So, Bader-Ginsberg really admitted it was a form of extermination of unwanted humans? I don’t quite follow what seems to be her “reasoning.” She seems to know what she’s talking about, but what comes across to me are more feelings than thoughts, and I’m not comfortable with that because they are so vague. I don’t think that’s a good quality in a judge, to put feelings above reason.
I do not often toss about religious quotes in blog comments but I cannot help it this time:
[…]
“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
“He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Yeah … “Evil”
Arabian Stallion
14 years ago
Are Hitler’s gas chambers still operatonal? The “Big O” might save even more money by renting them instead of having to build new ones later in his “presidential career”.
The proponents of this “healthcare” plan are sick, power-starved wackos. At least some dialog has begun. Obama might settle for having a raffle to see who “wins” health care. What a bunch of egotistical, cold-hearted jerkoffs. If this doesn’t wake the almost normal Democrats up, what in the world would it take?
Non-caring Republicans? The conservatives now look like Mother Teresa by comparison!
ditto
14 years ago
In some respects this reminds me of the misuse of “Immanent Domain” whereby local governments justified the taking of land from one taxpayer to provide to another who will (theoretically) pay higher taxes.
I.e. favoritism for those whom the government considers “more worthy” and substandard (or no treatment) for those whom do not measure up to the left’s political standards, and to hell with equal rights and equal protection under the law.
In a word: Fascism.
Overweight? Smoker? Drinker? Old? Eat at McDonalds?
Obama and the Emanuel bros say: “No health care for you!”
But wait, I thought this was supposed to be about “universal health care.” Yet another lie. This is clearly another step in their socialist end goal of universal control of the people, and it is sounding more and more like the administrations of other effective historic public speakers. (Mussolini and Hitler.)
Ron Pedergrast
14 years ago
I’ve got an idea!
Instead of being afraid of what “may” happen and throwing around childish terms like Fascism, Nazi’s and Hitler, why don’t we all see what the official health reform BILL turns out to be and “IF” it gets voted in?
Hmmm. Using your heads? Getting the facts when the Bill’s presented….sounds reasonable to me!
I don’t have time for fear-mongering. Please leave the bible speak in church. If the boogie men are coming to get us, I’ll be right there standing with ya’ll, but until I hear FACTS, and P don’t give a rats a$$ about what someone who’s a BROTHER of someone in the White House thinks.
Emmanuel doesn’t WRITE, PRESENT, DICTATE, OR HAVE ANY SAY about the LAWS of this great country or how they get enforced and what does or doesn’t get passed…If I remember right the President doesn’t create laws either, that’s what’s great about our form of government!
The fact is our health care system is TERRIBLE. It’s about time something is done it’s only been sixty years (1947) since this problem was brought up!
I’m going to read the BILL when it’s presented, then I’ll make a decision and then contact my representative.
God I love this country!
Hard Right
14 years ago
Hey ron pederast, portions of what would likely appear in the bill and what it would do have been reproduced on this site and elsewhere. That is why there is opposition. All attempts at “real reform” have been blocked in the dem efforts to march us into universally bad healthcare. But yeah, we should just sit back and shut up until the bill is done… since by then it’s too late to fight it.
There must be some rule that obamabots have to be brainless and ignorant in addition to being hypocrites.
Ron Pendergrast
14 years ago
Hard Right: You mean likely portions of which ? HR 767, HR3200, The Senates?..the Houses?…I don’t want bad health care any more than you do I haven’t seen anything move forward yet. What would “likely appear” out of the three I know about, I think that’s anyones guess right now.” There’s a lot that could STILL likely appear, I may not be an but “OBAMABNUT ?” but I’m not interested in getting excited about ANYTHING Emanuel says.
I will get excited if any of these referendums don’t get costs down so small businesses can compete in the marketplace and people starting businesses can afford healthcare and offer it to their employees.
I heard some claim there would even be a Death board?, please give me a break…that kind of dialog really helps.
(The name calling always helps too!)
Bless you Hard Right..I’m keeping an eye on Congress too …we’ll git ‘er done…for both our sakes I hope!
@Ron Pendergrast: We DO know what the official House bill looks like. I tracked it through the committee process and wrote a lengthy examination of it. If you are interested, I’ll give you the link, or you can zoom through the pages here and find it yourself.
The amendments that Republicans offered would have gone a great way to making this a truly bipartisan bill and protecting seniors. But Democrats voted down nearly all of those amemendments on party line votes.
They voted down amendments to protect medicare, to stop public funding of abortions, to prevent illegal aliens from getting tax payer funded health benefits, to reign in trial lawyers and to force Congress and the President to accept the same health plan as they are forcing on us.
What it appears YOU want us to do is wait until the very final version of the bill emerges from both houses for a final vote. Sorry pal, that’s not how the legislative process works. It takes a long time to stop a train and we don’t intend to wait until the last second to apply the brakes.
And it is also entirely fair to point out the some of the whacky and extreme viewpoints of the people, like Dr. Emanuel, whose views are helping to shape the Democrats legislative output.
Or should we ignore the fact that so many people in the Obama Administration, starting with the President, are the most extreme radicals who have ever held office?
Wait until the “final bill” comes out to start fighting it?
You mean the way Cap and Tax came out in it’s mega-page and last-minute hundreds of pages added form just a couple hours before the vote and was pushed through the vote? The dems, without republicans, have the numbers to pass this death penalty (and it IS just that for the people of this nation and our economy, not to mention to healthcare professionals).
The people crafting this “healthcare” plan for this country have one goal in mind … controlling from womb to grave who gets what care if any. If you haven’t concluded that from just what you may have read of the bill, if you’ve read anything, then you’re either blind to reading between the lines, or agree with the damn thing and the people who would be health dictators in this country.
The government has no right or business in our healthcare system. It’s NOT “broke” … it’s a sloppy mess because Medicare/Medicaid are “broke” and doctors have to go bankrupt to pay for malpractice insurance against bullshit law suits, and the “evil” insurance companies have chains around them that do not allow a more open market for competition.
They can deny it all they want but they are looking to force us into GB’s and Canada’s socialized healthcare system as a model.
Seems certain people pushing for that crap in our country are deaf to people already in those systems warning us DON’T DO IT!!!
WARNING: If You Do This Thing There Is No Changing Your Minds http://tinyurl.com/mgxpeg
[courtesy embed by Mike]
The pro-abortion left in this country always likes to point out “back allies” …
You ain’t seen nothing until ObamaCare screws-up our healthcare and doctors/surgeons/nurses open a black market in this country to treat people with what they are being denied.
THEN our healthcare system WILL be BROKEN.
But nothing to see here … just move along. They’ll give you a ring when the final solution … I mean bill is ready for you to read in 60 seconds before they railroad it through and force it down your throat.
Sitting back and waiting for decades is what has gotten us to this crap tsunami with our government … time to sink or swim your ass off …
Just think of it as a “first trimester” abortion of this highly defective bill.
BTW, those of us with “special needs” children/family members and elderly family have had their “spider senses” highly alerted with this obamanation of a “healthcare” bill … it IS rife with coldhearted death …
If you ain’t worried just move out of the way and let the “mob” do the dirty work for you.
Fit fit
14 years ago
The amendments that Republicans offered would have gone a great way to making this a truly bipartisan bill…
The Republicans have gotten plenty added in the Senate Bill…
@Fit fit: Most of the amendments which Dems accepted from Senate Republicans were technical in nature. They hardly touched the concerns that House GOP members have.
And we all know that House and Senate conferees can dump whatever they like out of the final bill.
And to think that Obama and the radical liberal moonbats are just getting warmed up! The One has gathered a group of Marxists at the helm ready to run drag Lady Liberty down. With wack jobs like Pelosi and Jet set ready to cash in. America is in trouble. Big trouble. Help Obama fail. Do it for the children (oh, isn’t that what liberals say?).
The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. – Winston Churchill
Frank
14 years ago
Another example of Republicans not having any constructive additions to the health care argument and attempting to pander to their base. I understand why they cannot unequivocally deny these spurious claims – It all boils down to the retention of power. Republicans are intimately aware that in order to retain their political positions, they must not alienate their base. But holding onto that base by not speaking out against the overt and covert racist antics directed toward our President, forecloses Republicans from expanding their support beyond their dwindling base. Moderate white Independents (like myself) and moderate Republicans are not going to vote for politicians that conveniently allow these volatile shenanigans to continue. One would have thought that the failed McCain/Palin attempt at this in 2008, would provide Republicans with insight- but it has not. In order to win a nationwide election or debate on any issue, the winner must have the support of Independents and moderates. In 2012, Republicans will again lose the Independent vote and ultimately the election.
As an aside, it is apparent that some of these baseless assertions are racially motivated. I cannot understand what causes people to have such racial animus because the concept of race is not biological, but cultural. Racist do not seem to fathom that all humanity is descended from Africa, therefore, unless you are from another planet, every human is simply a different shade of black.
Another example of an uniformed leftist flyby poster passing through to sling all sorts of false slurs including, but not limited to, accusations of racism just to see what will stick.
Too bad the facts fly directly in the face of your contentions.
Thanks for stopping by.
Carolina
14 years ago
Aye Chihuahua:
Another example of a misled rightwing wacko, from the loonies led by Linmbaugh, passing through with false slurs including, but not limited to accusations of marxism, nazisim, socialism and senseless bigotry, just to see what will stick. Good for laughs, but worth little else. The REAL facts show how wrong you are. Better ask Rush for better material.
Only a handful of publications have focused specifically on the definition of health and its evolution in the first 6 decades. Some of them highlight its lack of operational value and the problem created by use of the word “complete.” Others declare the definition, which has not been modified since 1948, “simply a bad one.”
Donald Bly
14 years ago
We’ll get big savings by cutting 500 billion from Medicare…
First, we get the direct savings of 500 billion and then we get the added benefit of drastically reducing the number of seniors that are currently receiving social security benefits. Obama and crew can “kill” two birds with one stone! Reduce Medicare costs and Social Security Costs. They should petition the OMB to include these additional cost savings in their assessment of Universal Bad Health Care Reform.
In addition we’ll get the added benefit of eliminating a great number of individuals that missed out on the “socialism is great”, “capitalism is bad”, education that our current crop of youth have had the benefit of receiving at the hands of the NEA and uber liberal college professors.
MAGGIE:wow so dangerous control of all humans ,in THE UNITEDSTATES OF AMERICA;where the CONSTITUTION ;A PILLAR of thoses last centurys;Is being steped under the GOVERNEMENT’s feets. it is getting clear to a majority more and more.what have they done????
DONALD :hi,before they try to figure on healthcare;i think they should have help the militarys who come back with some wounds;they have to wait too long to get the help they need;and go homeless to survive,and if they get lucky, a stranger wil do his best to take him;although,he cannot take all of them:was’nt it a top priority??? bye 🙄
Sound familiar?
Can anyone find a direct link to this information in the AMA Journal? If this is a true accounting of what Ezekiel Emanuel espouses, then the president has some explaining to to.
““D” after your name on the voter registation roles, what do you bet your chances of receiving care will be?”
Or if there is an R after your name, what do you bet your chances of having your medical history leaked during a campaign will be?
The Joe The Plumber experience taught us what can happen when you have partisans in positions to peruse records and if the government will, under this plan, get access to everyone’s medical AND financial records, the risk is just too great for abuse.
I can see it now … “Candidate saw psychiatrist 20 years ago, had STD when in college!”.
You can read the Hastings Report where he said:
but he also finished the paragraph by saying:
here is the pdf link:
http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/Where_Civic_Republicanism_and_Deliberative_Democracy_Meet.pdf
here is the pdf for the Lansing which should also be read:
http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/PIIS0140673609601379.pdf
Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
@ PB
Health Affairs
The article cited is about halfway down the page.
@Mike’s America:
I read somewhere that when the Nazis started implementing that on Germans, the German people got so angry the Nazis stopped. Just goes to show, if they wanted to stop the gassing of Jews, they could have.
But the Nazis euthanasia was very blatant, where Obama’s isn’t an active murder of the old, just withhold treatment and let them die, so maybe he can sneak it on by?
@ICanCopyAndPasteToo:
“A less obvious example is guaranteeing neuropsychological services to ensure children with learning disabilities can read and learn to reason.“
Since the Left already can’t reason, it’ll be hard to sell them on the need for that in any case.
You may have this already, but if you do, then here it is again…
http://blog.flecksoflife.com/2009/07/19/the-hc-monstrosity/
Also, as you already know, everything they know is wrong,….
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2009/07/two-books.html
….and DESTRUCTIVE!
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2009/07/minimum-wage-hike-stabs-business-owners.html
Let’s see. Withholding medical care to those who would be considered squandering it….
1. It could backfire and cut medical care to the gay community. After all, we can greatly stop the spread of AIDS in the USA if the gays had self control. Why cure AIDS if it can be minimized or practically eliminated by self control? Imagine the money saved!
2. Next stop would the black community. If you are caught doing something wrong, convicted, and put in prison… under this plan you would just rot while you are there. Especially if you are on death row.
3. If you are on welfare, and HAVE BEEN for a long time (lazy you!), then your health care should be cut too, because you are not contributing to the common good either — you are just a taker.
4. If you are an alcoholic/drug user/etc. then you would be denied help too. Because let’s face it, you’ll be wasting all that precious medical knowledge that was applied to your body only to drink another beer, or take another hit on dope.
So ironically, this whole process will benefit the middle class ‘average joe’ folk who have to work for a living. Now that’s a change.
@Steve:
Yeah, but Steve, get real. That’s their voting base your talking about, you know, like all those illegal aliens who we would have to pay for. No, they may be stupid, but they aren’t THAT stupid, yet.
I have to admit that after reading those two paragraphs in the linked reports, I feel physically ill.
If we, as a society, get to the point where it is considered acceptable or normal to pick and choose who will receive or not receive health care based on economics or the patients’ ability to be a productive, participating citizen that will be the day that our society has doomed itself.
Unfortunately, we have already opened the door by allowing the unborn to be targeted in this way.
In a recent interview Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg said “at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don’t want to have too many of.”
So, if a child is not aborted, Emanuel says that it’s OK to not guarantee medial care to that child.
If a person’s burden on society becomes heavier than their contribution to society, then it’s OK to not guarantee medical care.
So far, only the young and the elderly have been singled out. How soon before those ideas spread to the point that they affect a wider range?
This smells of eugenics. This smells of the heinous, unspeakable acts of prior despots.
Ladies and gentlemen I simply have to call this by its’ name: EVIL.
There really is just no other word to describe it, and I find it chilling.
Thanks for the links. I tried to do some searches, but got buried in results. ICanCopyAndPasteToo added this link: http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/PIIS0140673609601379.pdf and I have copied some of the critical information below. The article discusses different methods of determining who gets health care (beside Ted Kennedy) and who shouldn’t. The authors came to a conclusion that is very scary and as other posters have noted, the conclusions are rooted in Nazi Germany. Note – the numbers are references to their footnotes, but you can get the gist of what they are saying. For us that are nearing retirement age or may have had health issues in the past, we are toast (or soylent green).
Because none of the currently used systems satisfy all
ethical requirements for just allocation, we propose an
alternative: the complete lives system. This system
incorporates five principles (table 2): youngest-fi rst,
prognosis, save the most lives, lottery, and instrumental
value. As such, it prioritises younger people who have not
yet lived a complete life and will be unlikely to do so
without aid. Many thinkers have accepted complete lives
as the appropriate focus of distributive justice: “individual
human lives, rather than individual experiences, [are] the
units over which any distributive principle should
operate.”1,75,76 Although there are important diff erences
between these thinkers, they share a core commitment to
consider entire lives rather than events or episodes, which
is also the defining feature of the complete lives system.
Consideration of the importance of complete lives also
supports modifying the youngest-fi rst principle by
prioritising adolescents and young adults over infants
(fi gure). Adolescents have received substantial education
and parental care, investments that will be wasted without
a complete life. Infants, by contrast, have not yet received
these investments. Similarly, adolescence brings with it a
developed personality capable of forming and valuing
long-term plans whose fulfi lment requires a complete
life.77 As the legal philosopher Ronald Dworkin argues, “It
is terrible when an infant dies, but worse, most people
think, when a three-year-old child dies and worse still when
an adolescent does”;78 this argument is supported by
empirical surveys.41,79 Importantly, the prioritisation of
adolescents and young adults considers the social and
personal investment that people are morally entitled to
have received at a particular age, rather than accepting the
results of an unjust status quo. Consequently, poor
adolescents should be treated the same as wealthy ones,
even though they may have received less investment owing
to social injustice.
@Aye Chihuahua:
Ladies and gentlemen I simply have to call this by its’ name: EVIL.
Yes, that’s what it is, all right.
So, Bader-Ginsberg really admitted it was a form of extermination of unwanted humans? I don’t quite follow what seems to be her “reasoning.” She seems to know what she’s talking about, but what comes across to me are more feelings than thoughts, and I’m not comfortable with that because they are so vague. I don’t think that’s a good quality in a judge, to put feelings above reason.
Good. God.
I do not often toss about religious quotes in blog comments but I cannot help it this time:
[…]
“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
“He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Yeah … “Evil”
Are Hitler’s gas chambers still operatonal? The “Big O” might save even more money by renting them instead of having to build new ones later in his “presidential career”.
The proponents of this “healthcare” plan are sick, power-starved wackos. At least some dialog has begun. Obama might settle for having a raffle to see who “wins” health care. What a bunch of egotistical, cold-hearted jerkoffs. If this doesn’t wake the almost normal Democrats up, what in the world would it take?
Non-caring Republicans? The conservatives now look like Mother Teresa by comparison!
In some respects this reminds me of the misuse of “Immanent Domain” whereby local governments justified the taking of land from one taxpayer to provide to another who will (theoretically) pay higher taxes.
I.e. favoritism for those whom the government considers “more worthy” and substandard (or no treatment) for those whom do not measure up to the left’s political standards, and to hell with equal rights and equal protection under the law.
In a word: Fascism.
Overweight? Smoker? Drinker? Old? Eat at McDonalds?
Obama and the Emanuel bros say: “No health care for you!”
But wait, I thought this was supposed to be about “universal health care.” Yet another lie. This is clearly another step in their socialist end goal of universal control of the people, and it is sounding more and more like the administrations of other effective historic public speakers. (Mussolini and Hitler.)
I’ve got an idea!
Instead of being afraid of what “may” happen and throwing around childish terms like Fascism, Nazi’s and Hitler, why don’t we all see what the official health reform BILL turns out to be and “IF” it gets voted in?
Hmmm. Using your heads? Getting the facts when the Bill’s presented….sounds reasonable to me!
I don’t have time for fear-mongering. Please leave the bible speak in church. If the boogie men are coming to get us, I’ll be right there standing with ya’ll, but until I hear FACTS, and P don’t give a rats a$$ about what someone who’s a BROTHER of someone in the White House thinks.
Emmanuel doesn’t WRITE, PRESENT, DICTATE, OR HAVE ANY SAY about the LAWS of this great country or how they get enforced and what does or doesn’t get passed…If I remember right the President doesn’t create laws either, that’s what’s great about our form of government!
The fact is our health care system is TERRIBLE. It’s about time something is done it’s only been sixty years (1947) since this problem was brought up!
I’m going to read the BILL when it’s presented, then I’ll make a decision and then contact my representative.
God I love this country!
Hey ron pederast, portions of what would likely appear in the bill and what it would do have been reproduced on this site and elsewhere. That is why there is opposition. All attempts at “real reform” have been blocked in the dem efforts to march us into universally bad healthcare. But yeah, we should just sit back and shut up until the bill is done… since by then it’s too late to fight it.
There must be some rule that obamabots have to be brainless and ignorant in addition to being hypocrites.
Hard Right: You mean likely portions of which ? HR 767, HR3200, The Senates?..the Houses?…I don’t want bad health care any more than you do I haven’t seen anything move forward yet. What would “likely appear” out of the three I know about, I think that’s anyones guess right now.” There’s a lot that could STILL likely appear, I may not be an but “OBAMABNUT ?” but I’m not interested in getting excited about ANYTHING Emanuel says.
I will get excited if any of these referendums don’t get costs down so small businesses can compete in the marketplace and people starting businesses can afford healthcare and offer it to their employees.
I heard some claim there would even be a Death board?, please give me a break…that kind of dialog really helps.
(The name calling always helps too!)
Bless you Hard Right..I’m keeping an eye on Congress too …we’ll git ‘er done…for both our sakes I hope!
@Ron Pendergrast: We DO know what the official House bill looks like. I tracked it through the committee process and wrote a lengthy examination of it. If you are interested, I’ll give you the link, or you can zoom through the pages here and find it yourself.
The amendments that Republicans offered would have gone a great way to making this a truly bipartisan bill and protecting seniors. But Democrats voted down nearly all of those amemendments on party line votes.
They voted down amendments to protect medicare, to stop public funding of abortions, to prevent illegal aliens from getting tax payer funded health benefits, to reign in trial lawyers and to force Congress and the President to accept the same health plan as they are forcing on us.
What it appears YOU want us to do is wait until the very final version of the bill emerges from both houses for a final vote. Sorry pal, that’s not how the legislative process works. It takes a long time to stop a train and we don’t intend to wait until the last second to apply the brakes.
And it is also entirely fair to point out the some of the whacky and extreme viewpoints of the people, like Dr. Emanuel, whose views are helping to shape the Democrats legislative output.
Or should we ignore the fact that so many people in the Obama Administration, starting with the President, are the most extreme radicals who have ever held office?
Wait until the “final bill” comes out to start fighting it?
You mean the way Cap and Tax came out in it’s mega-page and last-minute hundreds of pages added form just a couple hours before the vote and was pushed through the vote? The dems, without republicans, have the numbers to pass this death penalty (and it IS just that for the people of this nation and our economy, not to mention to healthcare professionals).
The people crafting this “healthcare” plan for this country have one goal in mind … controlling from womb to grave who gets what care if any. If you haven’t concluded that from just what you may have read of the bill, if you’ve read anything, then you’re either blind to reading between the lines, or agree with the damn thing and the people who would be health dictators in this country.
The government has no right or business in our healthcare system. It’s NOT “broke” … it’s a sloppy mess because Medicare/Medicaid are “broke” and doctors have to go bankrupt to pay for malpractice insurance against bullshit law suits, and the “evil” insurance companies have chains around them that do not allow a more open market for competition.
They can deny it all they want but they are looking to force us into GB’s and Canada’s socialized healthcare system as a model.
Seems certain people pushing for that crap in our country are deaf to people already in those systems warning us DON’T DO IT!!!
WARNING: If You Do This Thing There Is No Changing Your Minds http://tinyurl.com/mgxpeg
[courtesy embed by Mike]
The pro-abortion left in this country always likes to point out “back allies” …
You ain’t seen nothing until ObamaCare screws-up our healthcare and doctors/surgeons/nurses open a black market in this country to treat people with what they are being denied.
THEN our healthcare system WILL be BROKEN.
But nothing to see here … just move along. They’ll give you a ring when the final solution … I mean bill is ready for you to read in 60 seconds before they railroad it through and force it down your throat.
Sitting back and waiting for decades is what has gotten us to this crap tsunami with our government … time to sink or swim your ass off …
Just think of it as a “first trimester” abortion of this highly defective bill.
BTW, those of us with “special needs” children/family members and elderly family have had their “spider senses” highly alerted with this obamanation of a “healthcare” bill … it IS rife with coldhearted death …
If you ain’t worried just move out of the way and let the “mob” do the dirty work for you.
The Republicans have gotten plenty added in the Senate Bill…
@Fit fit: Most of the amendments which Dems accepted from Senate Republicans were technical in nature. They hardly touched the concerns that House GOP members have.
And we all know that House and Senate conferees can dump whatever they like out of the final bill.
And to think that Obama and the radical liberal moonbats are just getting warmed up! The One has gathered a group of Marxists at the helm ready to run drag Lady Liberty down. With wack jobs like Pelosi and Jet set ready to cash in. America is in trouble. Big trouble. Help Obama fail. Do it for the children (oh, isn’t that what liberals say?).
The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. – Winston Churchill
Another example of Republicans not having any constructive additions to the health care argument and attempting to pander to their base. I understand why they cannot unequivocally deny these spurious claims – It all boils down to the retention of power. Republicans are intimately aware that in order to retain their political positions, they must not alienate their base. But holding onto that base by not speaking out against the overt and covert racist antics directed toward our President, forecloses Republicans from expanding their support beyond their dwindling base. Moderate white Independents (like myself) and moderate Republicans are not going to vote for politicians that conveniently allow these volatile shenanigans to continue. One would have thought that the failed McCain/Palin attempt at this in 2008, would provide Republicans with insight- but it has not. In order to win a nationwide election or debate on any issue, the winner must have the support of Independents and moderates. In 2012, Republicans will again lose the Independent vote and ultimately the election.
As an aside, it is apparent that some of these baseless assertions are racially motivated. I cannot understand what causes people to have such racial animus because the concept of race is not biological, but cultural. Racist do not seem to fathom that all humanity is descended from Africa, therefore, unless you are from another planet, every human is simply a different shade of black.
@Frank:
Another example of an uniformed leftist flyby poster passing through to sling all sorts of false slurs including, but not limited to, accusations of racism just to see what will stick.
Too bad the facts fly directly in the face of your contentions.
Thanks for stopping by.
Aye Chihuahua:
Another example of a misled rightwing wacko, from the loonies led by Linmbaugh, passing through with false slurs including, but not limited to accusations of marxism, nazisim, socialism and senseless bigotry, just to see what will stick. Good for laughs, but worth little else. The REAL facts show how wrong you are. Better ask Rush for better material.
Hi Carolina.
Nice shoes.
Care to debate the “REAL facts” that you mention?
Anytime you’re ready, bring it on.
Until then have a nice tall glass of STHU.
PS…I’m not passing through. I’m a resident.
I see obama has emptied out the insane asylums and sent his zombie hordes to do his bidding.
The left’s matra seems to be: It’s NOT propaganda when we say it!
Only a handful of publications have focused specifically on the definition of health and its evolution in the first 6 decades. Some of them highlight its lack of operational value and the problem created by use of the word “complete.” Others declare the definition, which has not been modified since 1948, “simply a bad one.”
We’ll get big savings by cutting 500 billion from Medicare…
First, we get the direct savings of 500 billion and then we get the added benefit of drastically reducing the number of seniors that are currently receiving social security benefits. Obama and crew can “kill” two birds with one stone! Reduce Medicare costs and Social Security Costs. They should petition the OMB to include these additional cost savings in their assessment of Universal Bad Health Care Reform.
In addition we’ll get the added benefit of eliminating a great number of individuals that missed out on the “socialism is great”, “capitalism is bad”, education that our current crop of youth have had the benefit of receiving at the hands of the NEA and uber liberal college professors.
MAGGIE:wow so dangerous control of all humans ,in THE UNITEDSTATES OF AMERICA;where the CONSTITUTION ;A PILLAR of thoses last centurys;Is being steped under the GOVERNEMENT’s feets. it is getting clear to a majority more and more.what have they done????
DONALD :hi,before they try to figure on healthcare;i think they should have help the militarys who come back with some wounds;they have to wait too long to get the help they need;and go homeless to survive,and if they get lucky, a stranger wil do his best to take him;although,he cannot take all of them:was’nt it a top priority??? bye 🙄
FRANK:sorry but you are the only one with CAROLINA,thalking to your keeboard here;no one else do it:bye,guys 🙄