My sympathies wrt your brothere.

It also doesn’t hurt that my brother is an almost off the charts moonbat. Makes observation that much easier.

Nice job, as usual. I sometimes like to use the malicious comments to develop a theme, as well, because others might think the same nonsense that they want to spew.

“Perhaps “exile” is too good for this guy…”

More proof the Hondurans are a lot more civilized than the commies they are being criticized by, ….the guy is still alive.

As for Gaffa, he’s up to his usual tricks…
http://www.floppingaces.net/2009/04/26/defining-torture/comment-page-1/#comment-196400
…still a narcissistic and dimly lit bulb blaming others for his lack of wattage.

Also per that article: “…the military was acting on the orders of the Supreme Court, the nation’s civilian attorney general concurred with its rulings and Congress validated Zelaya’s removal.

Perhaps “exile” is too good for this guy…

Gaffa: So if the leader is arrested – why is it ‘impossible’ for congress to convene and remove him from office? Where in the Honduras consitution does its say the army is there to uphold the law? Where in the consitution does its say that if a leader contravenes the constitution then that leader is exiled and effectively make a nationless?

So many questions from you. I’m no Honduran attorney, but I’m pretty darn sure not every legal remedy and procedure is spelled out in detail in their Constitution. It’s not like Presidents are removed from office daily, ya know… But let’s play speculation, since that’s all we can do.

Honduras government structure is similar to the US in being a Constitutional democratic republic. Like the US, they have an executive branch, legislative and judicial. As to how those branches execute their separation of powers is a question for the Honduras legal experts and depends upon their laws and code that provide remedies and procedure. Thus the links to the Honduras attorney.

This isn’t a case where the Honduras military decided this guy wasn’t acting according to Honduras law. The Supreme Court, Congress and Council found Zelaya committed “an act that is considered unconstitutional and is considered as a crime of Treason to the Country,” and he resisted cease and desist orders multiple times. With or without the formality of a trial that may not be required in Honduras, the man is smoking gun guilty, and his actions were pronounced so by the Supreme Court there.

The Honduras Congress voted to remove (impeach?) this President for committing the crime of treason… the penalty for which is death in the US. Frankly, Zelaya ought to be thrilled with exile… Our US Congress also has the power to declare the punishment for treason in Article III(3) of the Constitution.

So is it so far fetched and “undemocratic” that the Honduras Congress does not possess similar power?

INRE the military: drawing a “what if” situation here in the US…. even that is muddy. What if the US Congress impeached/removed Obama from office, and our Congress declared the punishment for treason and Obama found guilty under our procedures. Just who has the jurisdiction to detain the removed Commander in Chief?

It’s further muddied that a sitting President cannot be tried for crimes, and that any such trial must wait until his term expires. Is it clear that an impeachment – which merely removes the official from office and then may end up in a trial – renders a sitting President eligible for immediate trial? This one has had US Constititional scholars going round and round in debate.

Needless to say, were this to happen here, there would not only be legal experts coming out of the woodwork, charging improper procedure from every avenue, there would also be violent riots in the streets… which brings me to speculate on your military/law enforcement comment.

First, according to the chonology of events in the ousting Zelaya and a mob attempted to breach security at a Honduras AF facility.

The Supreme Electoral Tribunal and the General Attorney of State began legal actions to confiscate the poll’s material and named the Air Force Chief as depositary of the confiscated items.

The President and a mob of his followers broke the order of legality, rejected the resolution by the Judicial Power, assaulted the Air Force facilities in Tegucigalpa, where the confiscated material was being kept, misused his authority as President of Honduras, publicly expressed that he would not respect the rulings of the Judicial Power, and put forward that the Legislative Power was not representative of the People, but himself, who had been elected president of Honduras.

The Armed Forces of Honduras re established the order and legality.

The National Congress followed the constitutional process established in the Article 242, regarding the succession of the President in case of a definite absence.

I’d say if Obama and a band of ACORN types attacked a US base, that they [the military] would definitely be involved. But let’s go for the generic question, is the military the appropriate law enforcement choice to detain Zelaya? They certainly had jurisdiction in that event.

Some branches of our US military are indeed involved in law enforcement during emergency measures… i.e. the Guard during Katrina and other events that required some degree of martial law. But technically, the US Guard is under command of the Governor and requires the Commander in Chief jumping procedural hoops to usurp that State command. In this bizarre instance, the Commander in Chief would be the guy the other branches of government are trying to detain. And I have no idea if Honduras has a branch similar to the US Nat’l Guard, nor if the orders to the military came from what would be similar to our Department of Defense.

But, to me, the military is the logical branch to act as the law enforcement body to detain a President, voted by Congress to be guilty of the crime of treason. Would you suggest Honduras Congressional members go after him? Maybe the Supreme Court judges ought to go get him? Just who do you think *should* arrest/detain/exile a legally ousted President, Gaffa?

It’s a jurisdiction question. If Obama were found guilty of treason, who go gets him? Homeland Defense officials? NSA? The FBI? CIA? The local Chicago police in his neighborhood? Interesting question. But again, it’s how Honduras law is set up for detaining an elected official guilty of treason.

As far as exile as opposed to incarcerating Zelaya in a prison… Honduras law states the removed official cannot hold office for 10 years. Perhaps they have a provision for exile with the finding of treason by the Honduras Congress (again… the same power that the US Congress has).

Then there’s the possibility of emergency measures. Remember that the military had to subdue Zelaya’s mob just to get to the guy, holed up in his abode to detain/exile him. One would think that there would be emergency measure in place for crowd control while the Congress went thru the formal legal procedure, and naming an interim head of State.

When a US President is in the impeachment process, he’s still acting as the Commander in Chief of the US military. Well now, don’t that create a conflict of power? What damage could a US CIC do, controlling the military, while under investigation for treason? I shudder at the thought…

But here’s the real burning question. You certainly go to great lengths to defend a man who’s actions were found illegal by the Honduras Congress, their Supreme Court and their election Council. Instead of ceasing his illegal actions, as told many times, he grabs a mob and attacks an AF base. His own administration’s AG ordered his detainment/exile.

So tell me, why are you defending a man which virtually every branch of Honduras government has found to be committing the crime of treason?

Reading the link you sent I noticed this…

He was detained and taken to Costa Rica. Why? Congress needed time to convene and remove him from office. With him inside the country that would have been impossible.

So if the leader is arrested – why is it ‘impossible’ for congress to convene and remove him from office? Where in the Honduras consitution does its say the army is there to uphold the law? Where in the consitution does its say that if a leader contravenes the constitution then that leader is exiled and effectively make a nationless?

And BTW, good morning… you’re up early

I’ve been living in Australia for the last year…hence the time difference.

However, speaking from a US point of view, we usually “meddle” on the side of countries attempting democratic steps and adherence to rule of law

Try this for size…

I don’t see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its own people. The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves

Henry Kissinger

As for Yonason – look at his words and petty insults to show what an intellectual minnow and spiteful little prat he is – ’sociopath’, ‘clueless moron’, ‘idiot’ and ‘piss and throw feces like an angry monkey’ and yet he is so dumb that he goes against his own advice about not wasting time on me. lol. What is it with some people on here that they can’t have a civil debate – even if they politely agree to disagree – without having to start using such dull insults. Yawn….

That’s why the lefties to this day try to deny that Reagan had anything to do with winning the Cold War. It would shame their blind obstruction of his every move.

They’re just as wrong here but can’t and won’t admit it.

“And when does a military coup become democratic?”

When the military is enforcing the constitution at the unanimous command of the supreme court.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=axGENUiy9yKs
It’s called the rule of law, something you obviously have no conception of.

(see, Matta, you just have to show others what an idiot he is, and leave it at that. He’ll piss and throw feces like an angry monkey, but he can’t hit us and it’ll be fun to watch.)

NOTE – too bad we don’t have a SCOTUS that had any common sense and sufficient stones, so we could get rid of the Kenyan trailer trash dope head usurper we’re stuck with in the White House.

Come on Mata, don’t waste time with that little sociopath. He is a clueless moron who hasn’t anything worth saying, and whose only pleasure is pushing people’s buttons. The trick is to not take him seriously, because he isn’t serious, well, a serious nuisance maybe, but that’s about it. Of course, if you want to keep wasting your time on him, that’s your business.

And it irritates me because I had already explained my work schedule, and this issue is triaged for rare time, twice already. If I have little time inbetween stuff, it’s irritating to have to repeat myself. And BTW, good morning… you’re up early

Since your “as the army” question still stands, let me ask you this… if your PM breaks British law, and your equivalent of both the US and Honduras AG orders an arrest, do you send someone from Brighton jurisdiction to arrest and remove a PM?

Quite simply, the army is the appropriate law enforcement body in Honduras to assign the task. You read more into it than should be.

It doesn’t appear to me that those in charge now when through due process – however I don’t know all the ins and outs of the Honduras legal ‘justice’ system.

Again I must repeat myself. sigh…. For the second time – you should read Octavio Sanchez’s legal dissertation on the formalities for arresting and removing Zelaya from office and taking him to Puerto Rico. Frankly, I’ll bet on his interpretation of Honduras law over yours since he is a lawyer, and former presidential adviser and minister of culture of Honduras.

Instead you try to pronounce judgment on Zelaya’s illegal actions and refusal to respond to cease and desist orders by every power that be in Honduras based on what you believe is “just”. So you use a pundit’s interpretation of issues as what is “just”?

Only the Congress could okay a referendum. Zelaya didn’t give three sheets to the wind on that. When he couldn’t get ballots legally, he went to Venezuela and got them printed up. Would you sanction they bypass of your rule of law for Gordon Brown… even if he were asking for a chicken in every pot for grandma?

But of course, that’s not the issue Zelaya was seeking sanctions on… it was perpetual Presidential terms for power…. making what is already more illegal even more ugly. And, as a smart politician… were I seeking unmitigated power, I’d promise “tax cuts” so I’d get support for that unmitigated power. You miss the heart of Zelaya’s quest.

As for meddling – so are you suggesting foreign powers don’t meddle in other countries internal affairs?

Don’t be absurd. As far as I can tell, every leader of every country has chosen to “meddle”. However, speaking from a US point of view, we usually “meddle” on the side of countries attempting democratic steps and adherence to rule of law. Which is why it’s so offensive that Obama ignores Iran, and supports a Constitutional usurper.

But then… it takes one to know one.

Shame – normally you are quite civil – the pissing & f**k off comments are beneath you. The falling tree was a joke – not so sure why that seems to irritate you that much. However thanks for the useful info on search engines. As for “why the army” – that’s still there. The only edit I did was to correct some of the quote boxes. As for the Hillary bit – well plenty of people are calling this a military coup. Without the military’s support it wouldn’t of happened. Whether or not the SOS of another country calls it a coup is neither here or there in terms of whether it can be defined as a coup or not.

It doesn’t appear to me that those in charge now when through due process – however I don’t know all the ins and outs of the Honduras legal ‘justice’ system. It looks like Zelaya was trying to go against their constitution. However I wonder if it was him trying to extend the limit (which is only one term) is really behind this or not. I mean the guy was trying to get the minimum wage in – how absurd and radical is that! Constitutions are funny old things because like the US – there are plenty of amendments which happen. Zelaya was stupid in that he should of just served his term rather than upset the apple cart for no good reason.

As for meddling – so are you suggesting foreign powers don’t meddle in other countries internal affairs?

This is just mind blowing… just a few measly citizens in various countries “get it” on upholding Honduras Constitutional law, while the world leadership attempts to “meddle” and reinstate a leftist Constitutional usurper. I’d say O’syndrome has infected the world and madness has ensued.