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John ryan
14 years ago
Are we supporting the social liberals in Iran ?
philly_nj
14 years ago
Charles Krauthammer end his Washington Post op-ed with:
“*And where is our president? Afraid of “meddling.” Afraid to take sides between the head-breaking, women-shackling exporters of terror — and the people in the street yearning to breathe free. This from a president who fancies himself the restorer of America’s moral standing in the world. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/18/AR2009061803495.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
“*This from a president who fancies himself the restorer of America’s moral standing in the world.” ……… Who ever Iran ends up being governed by isn’t going to be thanking President Obama for his moral support.
.
eaglewingz08
14 years ago
We are supporting classic liberals in Iran, that is what we would today call conservatives, as opposed to the progressive liberals who have made a pact with the devil with radical islamists in the hope that they will destroy western civilization, and/or that in the revolution that the commies will come out on top. (That didn’t work out as they planned when the commies supported Khomeini in 1979, and then after the revolution the IIRG wiped out the commies, but commies being divorced from reality always believe the next outcome will be different from all their past horrific failures).
I am just saddened to see that Mousavi is comparing himself to Obama and Bush to Amamadjihadi. If it were not for Bush bringing democracy to Afghanistan and Iraq, and supporting the Cedar Revolution in Lebanon, the current state of affairs in Iran would have been impossible.
To claim that a genocidal antisemite is the equivalent of Bush, rather than the person who spent twenty years in the church of an extreme antisemite is a slur on Bush and shows the foolishness and opportunism of the foreign affairs advisor. He may think he’s getting cheap points on Bush, or may believe that it he casts Mousavi as Obama, the Administration is more likely to support him. But he is dealing with a President who said that millions of deaths in Iraq as a result of a civil war would not be enough for him to support the successful surge there. Obama really has no principles on liberty and freedom, it’s only what can be used at the moment to prop himself up. It’s also amazing that the press is trumpeting up Henry Kissinger’s do nothing approach on Iran in order to buttress the moral cowardice of Obama. Liberals in bed with Kissinger, does irony get much better than that?
@eaglewingz08: I saw that quote from the foreign affairs “advisor” too. It was rather unfortunate, and very inaccurate as you point out. I’m rather prepared to cut the guy a little slack considering the strain he is obviously under. But it would have been more helpful to his cause if he pointed out how strongly Bush supported freedom in Iran rather than trying to butt kiss Obama who obviously doesn’t give a damn.
@philly_nj: Krauthammmer piece was excellent. I’ll just drop an excerpt of the text here for those who don’t have the registration for the Wash. Post site:
Millions of Iranians take to the streets to defy a theocratic dictatorship that, among its other finer qualities, is a self-declared enemy of America and the tolerance and liberties it represents. The demonstrators are fighting on their own, but they await just a word that America is on their side.
And what do they hear from the president of the United States? Silence. Then, worse. Three days in, the president makes clear his policy: continued “dialogue” with their clerical masters.
Dialogue with a regime that is breaking heads, shooting demonstrators, expelling journalists, arresting activists. Engagement with — which inevitably confers legitimacy upon — leaders elected in a process that begins as a sham (only four handpicked candidates permitted out of 476) and ends in overt rigging.
…
Moreover, this incipient revolution is no longer about the election. Obama totally misses the point. The election allowed the political space and provided the spark for the eruption of anti-regime fervor that has been simmering for years and awaiting its moment. But people aren’t dying in the street because they want a recount of hanging chads in suburban Isfahan. They want to bring down the tyrannical, misogynist, corrupt theocracy that has imposed itself with the very baton-wielding goons that today attack the demonstrators.
This started out about election fraud. But like all revolutions, it has far outgrown its origins. What’s at stake now is the very legitimacy of this regime — and the future of the entire Middle East.
This revolution will end either as a Tiananmen (a hot Tiananmen with massive and bloody repression or a cold Tiananmen with a finer mix of brutality and co-optation) or as a true revolution that brings down the Islamic Republic.
The latter is improbable but, for the first time in 30 years, not impossible. Imagine the repercussions. It would mark a decisive blow to Islamist radicalism, of which Iran today is not just standard-bearer and model, but financier and arms supplier. It would do to Islamism what the collapse of the Soviet Union did to communism — leave it forever spent and discredited.
…
Now, with Hezbollah having lost elections in Lebanon and with Iraq establishing the institutions of a young democracy, the fall of the Islamist dictatorship in Iran would have an electric and contagious effect. The exception — Iraq and Lebanon — becomes the rule. Democracy becomes the wave. Syria becomes isolated; Hezbollah and Hamas, patronless. The entire trajectory of the region is reversed.
…
Even from the narrow perspective of the nuclear issue, the administration’s geopolitical calculus is absurd. There is zero chance that any such talks will denuclearize Iran. On Monday, President Ahmadinejad declared yet again that the nuclear “file is shut, forever.” The only hope for a resolution of the nuclear question is regime change, which (if the successor regime were as moderate as pre-Khomeini Iran) might either stop the program, or make it manageable and nonthreatening.
That’s our fundamental interest. And our fundamental values demand that America stand with demonstrators opposing a regime that is the antithesis of all we believe.
And where is our president? Afraid of “meddling.” Afraid to take sides between the head-breaking, women-shackling exporters of terror — and the people in the street yearning to breathe free. This from a president who fancies himself the restorer of America’s moral standing in the world.
Jim
14 years ago
Everyone will have a long, long wait before our fearless (fly swatting) president Obama says anything about the demonstrations in Iran. Obama is no GW or Dick Cheney! He lacks the judgment and the character to make the right decision. Obama is Absent!
Why does he (Obama) – “See No Evil, Hear No Evil and Speak No Evil” when is comes to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the Mullah Regime in Iran or the “Jihadist”, “Islamofascism” and “Islamic Terrorist” (banned by State Department on April 24th, 2009).
Why does president Obama “See No Evil, Hear No Evil and Speak No Evil” – just look at Obama’s roots. Obama has now confirmed his father is a Muslim. Why didn’t Obama and the Main Stream Media (MSM) mention this fact before the 2008 Presidential Election? Why, we all know why – then McCain would have beaten the Teleprompter.
Now, looking back on the election – it is really hard to believable that John McCain couldn’t even win against a Teleprompter!
June 3, 2009 – Obama Renews Openness About His Muslim Roots Ahead of Egypt Speech
President Obama has spoken proudly of American Muslims, even referencing his heritage as the son of a Muslim man, ahead of his highly anticipated speech Thursday in Cairo aimed at shoring up relations between the U.S. and the Muslim world.
Well, you finally guessed why Obama will “See No Evil, Hear No Evil and Speak No Evil”. Obama believes that a Muslim should not criticize another Muslim. This is why Obama will remain “Absent” when it comes to saying anything about Mahmoud or the Mullahs!
You can take this to the Bank – Obama will remain out to lunch when it comes to the “People Power” in Iran! They and the World will find out that they are on their own. There will be silence from the United Nations, president Obama and he administration. Obama doesn’t deserve an upper case letter p in the word president before his name.
Do you remember Obama during the campaign giving his finger to John McCain and Hillary Clinton? Now, look at everything that Obama and Rahm Emanuel (Chief of Staff) have done. They are continuously giving the “Finger” to anyone who disagrees with them and their objective of remaking America!
November 6th, 2008 – Rahm Emanuel: “Dead! Dead! Dead!” Alex Jones
It is all about “The One” – president Obama’s ego!
Has anyone seen Obama’s birth certificate or his medical records? The MSM is out to lunch and Absent on this subject!
Jim, I don’t think MSM is out to lunch or absent…only enablers. They all know the truth just as we did during the campaign. Obama hides the Muslim background when it’s convenient and drags it out also when he thinks it will benefit his so called credentials. You have to be pretty well versed in Islam to be able to chant the call to prayers…as he is. The worst fraud ever perpetuated on the country.
Jim
14 years ago
Hi Ann,
You’re right – the MSM are “enablers”. I also agree with your comment that Obama is “The worst fraud ever perpetuated on the country.” Obama is a person without a Unite States Birth Certificate!
I decided to do a little research on the expression that I used in my previous post. It should read – “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil”.
These are some reference:
Three wise monkeys from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The three wise monkeys (Japanese: 三猿, san’en or sanzaru, or 三匹の猿, sanbiki no saru, literally “three monkeys”) are a pictorial maxim. Together they embody the proverbial principle to “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil”. The three monkeys are Mizaru, covering his eyes, who sees no evil; Kikazaru, covering his ears, who hears no evil; and Iwazaru, covering his mouth, who speaks no evil. For complete description go to > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_wise_monkeys
Please follow me on this. The Christian doctrine of the Trinity teaches the unity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit – three persons into one God – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity
Now, we have “The Three Monkeys” all rolled into one person as the “The Messiah, The One and the lord Barack Hussein Obama”!
Do you think president Obama will accept my gift of “The Three Monkeys” or should I send it to Robert Gibbs, Obama’s Press Secretary to be opened at a White House – Press Briefing Meeting?
Toothfairy
14 years ago
It’s the 1960s all over again. Instead of Nikita Khrushchev and the Cuban missile crisis, there’s Kim Jong Il aiming missiles at Hawaii. Instead of the Bay of Pigs with Cubans rising up against a dictator and his thugs, there’s the uprising of the Iranian people against the mullahs and the Basijis. Again bullies and dictators are testing a new, young American president. We need real men in the White House who can stare down the barrel of a gun without flinching, not so-called “progressive” effetes who don’t understand there is NOTHING progressive about slavery — no matter where it’s practiced.
mooseburger
14 years ago
I couldn’t say it any better myself. Enjoy another thoughtful point of view that is not just a knee jerk “hate everything about Obama, George Bush worship society” talking point.
Tiananmen Moments
by Patrick J. Buchanan
06/19/2009
On Dec. 14, 1825, following the death of Alexander I — who had seen off Napoleon — his brother, the grand duke, who had just taken the oath as Czar Nicholas I, was confronted by mutinous troops and rebels in Senate Square before the Winter Palace.
For hours, the czar stood at the end of the square as the crowd shouted for a constitution or for Nicholas’ brother Constantine to take the throne. Shots were exchanged.
As darkness fell, a czarist general rode up to Nicholas and said, “Sire, clean the square with gunfire — or abdicate.”
The cannons belched — and Nicholas reigned for 30 years.
Most autocratic regimes face such moments.
After Joseph Stalin’s death in 1953, East German workers rebelled, and were crushed. Rather than let the Hungarian Revolution triumph, in November 1956 Nikita Khrushchev ordered in the tanks. In August 1968, Leonid Brezhnev sent in tanks again to crush Prague Spring. In 1981, Moscow ordered Gen. Jaruzelski to smash Solidarity. Those communists did not shrink from massacre to keep what they worshipped: power.
In June 1989, Beijing, rather than let hundreds of thousands of dissidents occupy Tiananmen Square, waited for nightfall and sent in tanks and rural troops, avoiding the fate of the communist regimes of Eastern Europe.
Authoritarian rulers who recoil at bloodshed to preserve their power have not fared well.
Louis XVI let the mob lead him away from Versailles, which he never saw again. When artillery captain Bonaparte asked one of the late king’s ministers why Louis had not used his cannons, the minister is said to have replied, “The king of France does not use artillery on his own people.”
To which Napoleon is said to have replied, “What an idiot.”
The Shah refused to use his army on the rebels and lost his throne. Mikhail Gorbachev refused to use the army to save Moscow’s allies in Eastern Europe and lost the Soviet Empire.
Though Gorbachev is hailed in the West for not being a Khrushchev, no true authoritarian would regard him as a great statesman.
Tehran appears to be facing its Tiananmen moment.
Hundreds of thousands are still demonstrating against Friday’s election and the regime that validated it. They are now being joined by crowds in cities where Baluchi, Arabs, Kurds and Azeris outnumber Persians, thus imperiling the unity of this diverse nation.
It is hard to believe that this theocratic regime, backed by the Revolutionary Guard and clerics, will not do whatever is necessary to preserve its power and national unity.
This is another reason President Obama is right not to declare that the United States is on the side of the demonstrators in Tehran or the other cities — and against the regime.
Should this end in bloodshed, Obama would be blamed for having instigated it, and then abandoned the demonstrators, as Ike’s U.S. Information Agency was blamed for having urged the Hungarians to rise and then left them to their fate.
When Vice President Nixon went to the bridge at Andau to welcome the Hungarian patriots fleeing the bloodbath, many cursed America for having misled them into believing we would be at their side.
If Obama cannot assist the demonstrators, why declare we are with them? That would call into question the nationalist credentials of the protesters by tying them to a power not universally loved in Iran. It would play into the hand of the regime by confirming charges that the crowds are “rent-a-mobs” like the ones Kermit Roosevelt and the CIA used to dump over the regime of Muhammad Mossadegh in 1953.
Moreover, the alternative to the Ayatollah and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not a republic that will renounce Islamism and Iran’s nuclear program. It is ex-Presidents Khatami and Rafsanjani, and ex-Prime Minister Mir-Hossein Mousavi, all of whom trace their roots to the Revolution of 1979 and none of whom bears any great love of Uncle Sam.
It is Ayatollah Khomeini’s boys versus Ayatollah Khamenei’s boys. As Obama observed, in policy terms, there is no great difference.
For six days, the world has watched riveted as hundreds of thousands of Iranians peacefully protested what they believe was a stolen election, challenging the ayatollah who validated it just hours after the polls closed. For six days, the regime, born of the Islamic Revolution of 1979, has been leaking legitimacy and credibility in the eyes of its own people, the Islamic world, the whole world.
Why interfere? Why turn a widening confrontation between the Ayatollah Khamenei and the people into a spat between the president of the United States and the president of Iran?
It is impossible to believe a denunciation of the regime by Obama will cause it to stay its hand if it believes its power is imperiled. But it is certain that if Obama denounces Tehran, those demonstrators will be portrayed as dupes and agents of America before and after they meet their fate.
If standing up and denouncing the Ayatollah and Ahmadinejad from 7,000 miles away is moral heroism, it is moral heroism at other people’s expense.
The West will be blamed no matter what political leaders have to say about the demonstrations and the violence perpetrated on Iranians. Few in Iran care about what Obama has to say, including the Iranians on the street risking their lives.
There has been unrest for a number of years. It is now coming to a boil. The elections were simply a fuse that ignited deep rooted feelings against the oppression that many Iranians have been feeling, particularly the new generation.
This genie is out of the bottle. Change may be slow in coming, nevertheless, it will come.
Internal radical revolutions NEVER work out. Hopefully this will be a gradual movement to reform and change.
Jim
14 years ago
Hi Mooseburger,
Pat Buchanan might be right?
A better read on this subject is from Amir Taheri.
June 20, 2009
DEEPENING DIVISIONS
CRACKDOWN MAY START TODAY
BILLED as “unity prayers,” yesterday’s congregation at Tehran University’s campus instead highlighted the deep divisions that are tearing apart the Khomeinist ruling elite.
What’s the position of U.S. State Department? What about Obama’s Foreign Policy Brain Trust? What about the United Nations?
The Green Movement will not go away! It is all about Freedom!
“The Messiah, The One and the lord Barack Hussein Obama” will remain Absent – “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” is the Obama’s New Foreign Policy!
mooseburger
14 years ago
Hi Jim
Jim Said:
“The Messiah, The One and the lord Barack Hussein Obama” will remain Absent – “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” is the Obama’s New Foreign Policy!
Obama is in charge of America’s foriegn policy that is for a certainty. It is sad to have witnessed the discrediting and decline of a once proud Conservative movement turn into weak, sniveling fingerpointing group even before Inaguration Day. It is sad to see so many who are against so much, and for so little, offering no solutions except more tax cuts. There is not one single issue that I have heard Conservative folks agree with Obama on yet. There is no common ground left to be found. The partisanship of some trumps their patriotism, that goes for both side of the isle. The “Good of the Country” theme so strongly used in criticism of Liberals for the last 8 years has quickly been tossed and is now and will remain “Absent” as well from many Conservatives. It doesn’t suit their purpose anymore, not until they are back in power. Liberals have abandoned their previous stance too, the polarities have shifted 180 degrees.
There are some who seem so invested in Obama’s failure that their perceptions are skewed by their desire so see him fail, and for every single thing he says or does to be anti American. This is because of the same bias they despise in others is present in themselves, just on an opposite polarity. Liberal bias and Conservative bias are the Ying and Yang of the polarized spectrum. Most of the REAL WORLD in America doesn’t live there.
I didn’t vote for Bush, but do have some good things to say about him, and have here at FA on more than one occaision. Most people don’t see the all bad/everything bad Obama that some here see.
Bush had his chance to get things done, it’s Obama’s turn. Healthy and pointed critcizims are good and always part of out Democratic process. To be invested in and actively promote the failure of our government and foriegn policy is no more right now than it was when Liberals were doing it to Bush. Dick Lugar gives Obama an “A” on foriegn policy, including the current response to the Iran election. Obama is not stupid, and he knows what he is doing, and may well and probably is working behind the scene in ways we don’t know. Let’s hope and pray that a good change comes about in Iran and not push for war and conflict unless absolutely required.
Do you really think that if the President gets up and gives a speech about hoping for and backing that the protesters in Iran should overthrow their government that it would not be used as a Bogeyman to tie the protesters directly to American interests and the 1953 regime change we did? 1953 is not forgotten in Iran, no more than the Revolutionary war has been forgotten here. That will hurt and undermine the protesters efforts, certainly it won’t be helpful. We are in no position to invade Iran and help them. This would be no different than conservatives calling Obama a terrorist sympathizer, which they have done and still do, as well as anything else they think might stick to the wall. It used to be an effective tactic in years gone by, and Atwater and Rove rode that horse until it died. Willie Horton scared the crap outa folks….But like a broken record, it is not listened to anymore from Conservatives here in the US except amongst their own and has lost it’s credibility in the mainstream, and sacrificed the Conservatives credibility as well. That is about the only consistant theme Conservatives have been able to muster, and it is worn out and not effective.
In Iran, it may still be an effective scare tactic to sway the masses with and it would not be wise to promote that angle.
It’s about being smart in your approach to Iran right now, we tried it W’s way, and it didn’t bring change about, only defiance. Would some prefer war to solve the problems in Iran? All the real God loving Conservative Christians should practice their faith, pray that our leaders are doing what is right, and ask for our Creator to bless our Country’s leadership. That’s a heavy load for angst filled liberals when Bush was in office, and for Conservatives now, but this would be what Jesus would want to have you do, would it not? If this is the principled Christian stance Conservatives use to get elected, why do they hid their fire under a bushel after they are elected? Jesus said, “you shall know them by their fruits” If politics trumps your faith, then your faith is bearing bad fruit, not good, and the truth is not in you. Can you privately pray for your enemies as Jesus taught and publicly and relentlessly scumbag them, not as a matter of policy disagreement, but in a personal way and reconcile that with your faith?
If you are Pro Life Conservatives, ( and BTW, I am also Pro Life on the abortion issue, so no lectures to me about that please) it seems you would also be Pro Life when it comes to War and wanting to do what ever is possible to avoid it, not defend a war of choice or push for further loss of life that is not 100% unavoidable. You would only invoke it when the defense of our Country is at stake, not for use as diplomatic resolutions and to promote Democracy or enforce sanctions from a UN body that Conservatives continually hold in contempt anyway.
If there be bloodshed in Iran, let it be for the cause of their choice for freedom, not for another Bay of Pigs we promote and promise, and leave them poor bastar** hanging out to dry. Embracing and encouraging them at the early stages would have been the kiss of death to their movement, and the excuse desired by the existing powers to delegitimize and crush the movement before it ever got legs under it.
Even Bush had enough sense to say, when he endorsed McCain, (my paraphrase) that if he wants me to campaign for him, I will, if he wants me not to, that’s ok too, however I can help him. Was Bush absent from his Values because he didn’t go out and campaign with McCain, speak out everyday on his behalf? Or did Bush understand the best strategy to actually help and not hurt McCain was to lay low and let McCain work his own campaign distancing himself from Bush as far as possible? Why did the whole Republican Party abandon Bush? Were they cowards abandoning their principles like some say Obama is now regarding Iran? Or was it simply the best strategy available?
@mooseburger: citing Pat Buchanan’s piece is a sure sign you have chosen to ignore the call for human rights and freedom and sided with the bloody Iranian theocracy.
And as for “we tried it W’s way, and it didn’t bring change about, only defiance ” You are ignoring the foundation for this very happening in Iran which President Bush carefully laid over eight years in Iraq and Lebanon and in Iran itself.
Funny how you folks fought Bush every step of the way, even tried your best to force us to lose and withdraw in Iraq because you hated Bush so much. You poisoned the well of political discourse and now it’s your turn in the White House and you complain about how the water tastes.\
You folks are only reaping what you have sown and you don’t like it.
Well tough. Too bad. It’s your fault. Don’t come pointing fingers at conservatives.
As for trashing Obama at every opportunity we can only look at the successful model you people left us from the last eight years.
It makes me laugh when one of you comes around and waves the flag saying something like “we’re all Americans, let’s unite behind Obama.” Get real. The man is an aberration in office and a mistake that will soon be corrected.
Meanwhile, the entire world is seeing what an empty suit he is at this critical time. No one expects him to launch an invasion of Iran or arm the protesters. Neither do we expect him to be so lame as to make Jimmy Carter seem strong and resolute by comparison.
You can keep spouting all you want, but it’s nothing but empty rhetoric which has been exposed for what it is.
mooseburger
14 years ago
Mike, my friend, I think in your zeal to defend all things Conservative and decry all things Liberal, you may have overlooked the fact that I said, and believe that this conduct is wrong from either side. I try to leave room for the fact that these are my opinions and beliefs, and if I am found to be wrong at some point, I hope I will have the capacity to see it, admit it and learn something from it. Maybe this means having the capacity to realize that something that occurs that is not a good thing can and does become something that turns out good, perhaps due to good fortune, luck, or the Hand of God.
A few times I have posted here and been sternly chastised for painting all Conservatives as being from the exact same cloth. I had chosen the words “some folks” at the time, but that was twisted into me condemning all Conservatives. Mike, your words:
“Funny how you folks fought Bush every step of the way, even tried your best to force us to lose and withdraw in Iraq because you hated Bush so much. You poisoned the well of political discourse and now it’s your turn in the White House and you complain about how the water tastes.\
You folks are only reaping what you have sown and you don’t like it.
Well tough. Too bad. It’s your fault. Don’t come pointing fingers at conservatives.
As for trashing Obama at every opportunity we can only look at the successful model you people left us from the last eight years.”
#1: Don’t throw me into the pile of “You Folks” and “You People” Mike. I know right from wrong, there is both right and wrong from Conservatives and Liberals, my job as a citizen is to be informed, get involved and vote for the best course of action and direction of my Local, County, State, and Federal Government as I see it. That normally means I vote a split ticket.
If you need to lump all who you don’t agree with into a big pile of “You People” who began the era of extreem partisanship and uncival discourse in 2000, so you can justify why you are promoting the same behaviour amongst many conservatives now, don’t throw me into that pile, you really don’t know enough about me to warrant that, and your sensitivity to my post shows that it must have stung a bit.
#2 You said: “As for trashing Obama at every opportunity we can only look at the successful model you people left us from the last eight years.”
Thank you Mike, for at least admitting that your opposition to everything Obama is rooted in retribution. I applaud your refreshing honesty, and gives me added insight into your reasoning. You said “it’s your fault” and “You folks are only reaping what you have sown”
You are perhaps one of whom I was referring to in my earlier post when I stated: “This is because of the same bias they despise in others is present in themselves”
As I said, “Most of the REAL WORLD in America doesn’t live there.”
This is why the Country embraced the change we did. And if we decide we don’t like this change, we will change it again. Not for the good of any Zealot Liberal or Conservative Party, but for the good of our Country and the good of our Children.
Mike, those who don’t agree with you on every issue right now, it doesn’t mean there won’t be agreement in the future, or that in times past there was not agreement in the common cause. But I can say this without fear of being too far off base, the “successful mode you people left us from the last eight years.” you speak of also included what solutions were being offered as well as the criticisms, and also involved some agreement with current policies. Bush got his tax cuts and funding for the war, and many of the things he wanted. Bush could not have had more support from America and the World at one juncture of his Presidency. It was his to use wisely or blow, and not just me Mike, but the majority of voters and Bush’s own party turned away from him. Just remember to throw in the Republican Party into the pile of “you People” that turned their backs and rendered the verdict on Mr. George W. Bush.
@mooseburger said “Don’t throw me into the pile of “You Folks” and “You People”
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck IT’S A DUCK!
As for “Thank you Mike, for at least admitting that your opposition to everything Obama is rooted in retribution. ”
Nothing could be further from the truth and only a quacking liberal like yourself could even seriously suggest such a fiction.
I have only ONE MOTIVATION, and that is to get the right policy enacted. Everything Obama is doing is wrong on so many levels.
The fact that I can throw the hate YOU PEOPLE leveled on George Bush for EIGHT YEARS back in your face is just a bonus.
mooseburger
14 years ago
Mike, nobody hated George Bush for 8 years, he clearly had the support of the whole country after 911. I know I was proud of him and supported his efforts, until the run up to the Iraq war. He squandered his good will the country had for him, and the election results are the proof.
You have a tendency to attack the messenger personally while you engage in your rebuttals, next you will put my photo and Willie Horton up on the same page….your wrong Mike, and it rings hollow. If you want to make it personal, that’s on you, some folks get past Junior High School social tactics and some don’t.
You didn’t address the fact that the whole Republican Party campaign for the Presidency was rooted in distancing themselves from George W. They Quack, Quack, Quack very loudly too, in their rejection of Bush and his direction for the Country. They turned their back on him just like the majority of the country did. If Bush and his policies were a winner, they would have been riding that Horse to Victory, instead, they sent that Horse to the glue factory themselves.
@mooseburger: “Mike, nobody hated George Bush for 8 years “????
Comedy Night?
What planet do you live on Mossy?
Quack! Quack! Quack!
Sorry, but your entire comment is irrelevant to the topic under discussion. I have no desire to be your enabler here in your effort to derail the conversation.
Do you think it is possible for you to stay on topic?
mooseburger
14 years ago
MIKE SAID: “Sorry, but your entire comment is irrelevant to the topic under discussion. I have no desire to be your enabler here in your effort to derail the conversation.
Do you think it is possible for you to stay on topic?”
Sure, I can do that Mike. I wasn’t trying to derail anything, only respond to your comments.
Could your concern for staying on topic be how you intend to dodge the question about the Republicans and their Quacking Liberal turncoat behavior toward Bush during the Campaign? I noticed you have no response to that, so you are conceding that point I take it? If you would rather discuss it off group and not derail the topic here feel free to email me.
@mooseburger: I’m not “ducking” anything here Mossy… QUACK! QUACK!
I simply refuse to play your game.
Jim
14 years ago
Hi to all you “Mooseburgers”
The president Obama’s polls are starting to go down – see reference listed below.
The will continue to go down, down and down. Why? Becuase everyone will realized the “The Messiah, The One and the lord Barack Hussein Obama” is just a Teleprompter – reading what someone tells him to do.
Who’s the real Obama?
Obama sat in the same church pew for 20-years listening to Rev. Jeremiah Wright of Trinity United Church of Christ! How can anyone defend the indefensible!
Video – More Divisive Hate Speech at Barack Obama’s Church
Do you remember Obama’s position on “Infanticide”?
Video – Obama And Infanticide – Part 1 – 45 Minutes / Documentary Video / Why Was There The Need For The Born Alive Infants Protection Act? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6heVhZfVwR8
Obama is Absent and he will remain Absent on “People Power”. Why? Because this issue does not fit his agenda! What ever or whom ever he disagrees with – then, Obama flips them the “Bird”. Just like he gave the magic finger to John McCain and Hillary Clinton during the election process.
Remember “The Three Monkeys” whenever “The Messiah, The One and the lord Barack Hussein Obama” speaks. Obama will continue to “See No Evil, Hear No Evil, and Speak No Evil”.
Question: Can anyone of you “Mooseburgers” provide me with a reference to Obama’s real Birth Certificate or a reference to Obama’s Medical Records?
The following are news articles about Obama’s position – “See No Evil, Hear No Evil, and Speak No Evil”.
GOP calls Obama timid as he seeks footing on Iran
June 21, 2009
WASHINGTON (AP) – President Barack Obama stuck to his carefully tailored response to Iran’s internal crisis Sunday despite pressure from Republican critics, as he continued to speak up for protesters’ rights without making specific demands on Iran’s hard-line leaders.
Resolutely Irresolute – Obama dithers while Tehran burns.
Weekly Standard
June 29, 2009
The events of the past week in Iran, following the June 12 presidential election there, have been remarkable and hopeful. It’s been a moment when one would like a president of the United States–who has, in such moments, a supporting but not an inconsequential role–to rise to the occasion. Barack Obama hasn’t. We are therefore put in the position of hoping that the words of an American president are being mostly ignored, that his weakness won’t matter, and that the forces of reform or revolution will be able to prevail–as they may–with the support of many in America, if not the president.
Let Me Count the Ways Why Obama Should at Last Speak Out ( —I write this at around noon on Saturday, and suspect the pressure of public outrage will soon get to Obama, and he soon will recant and start sounding Reaganesque)
Daily Presidential Tracking Poll
Sunday, June 21, 2009
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Sunday shows that 32% of the nation’s voters now Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President.
Thirty-four percent (34%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -2. That’s the President’s lowest rating to date and the first time the Presidential Approval Index has fallen below zero for Obama (see trends).
Sixty percent (60%) of Democrats Strongly Approve of the President’s performance but only 8% of Republicans share that view. Sixty-one percent (61%) of Republicans Strongly Disapprove.
Check out our weekly review of key polls to see “What They Told Us.”
Are we supporting the social liberals in Iran ?
Charles Krauthammer end his Washington Post op-ed with:
“*And where is our president? Afraid of “meddling.” Afraid to take sides between the head-breaking, women-shackling exporters of terror — and the people in the street yearning to breathe free. This from a president who fancies himself the restorer of America’s moral standing in the world.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/18/AR2009061803495.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
“*This from a president who fancies himself the restorer of America’s moral standing in the world.” ……… Who ever Iran ends up being governed by isn’t going to be thanking President Obama for his moral support.
.
We are supporting classic liberals in Iran, that is what we would today call conservatives, as opposed to the progressive liberals who have made a pact with the devil with radical islamists in the hope that they will destroy western civilization, and/or that in the revolution that the commies will come out on top. (That didn’t work out as they planned when the commies supported Khomeini in 1979, and then after the revolution the IIRG wiped out the commies, but commies being divorced from reality always believe the next outcome will be different from all their past horrific failures).
I am just saddened to see that Mousavi is comparing himself to Obama and Bush to Amamadjihadi. If it were not for Bush bringing democracy to Afghanistan and Iraq, and supporting the Cedar Revolution in Lebanon, the current state of affairs in Iran would have been impossible.
To claim that a genocidal antisemite is the equivalent of Bush, rather than the person who spent twenty years in the church of an extreme antisemite is a slur on Bush and shows the foolishness and opportunism of the foreign affairs advisor. He may think he’s getting cheap points on Bush, or may believe that it he casts Mousavi as Obama, the Administration is more likely to support him. But he is dealing with a President who said that millions of deaths in Iraq as a result of a civil war would not be enough for him to support the successful surge there. Obama really has no principles on liberty and freedom, it’s only what can be used at the moment to prop himself up. It’s also amazing that the press is trumpeting up Henry Kissinger’s do nothing approach on Iran in order to buttress the moral cowardice of Obama. Liberals in bed with Kissinger, does irony get much better than that?
@eaglewingz08: I saw that quote from the foreign affairs “advisor” too. It was rather unfortunate, and very inaccurate as you point out. I’m rather prepared to cut the guy a little slack considering the strain he is obviously under. But it would have been more helpful to his cause if he pointed out how strongly Bush supported freedom in Iran rather than trying to butt kiss Obama who obviously doesn’t give a damn.
@philly_nj: Krauthammmer piece was excellent. I’ll just drop an excerpt of the text here for those who don’t have the registration for the Wash. Post site:
Everyone will have a long, long wait before our fearless (fly swatting) president Obama says anything about the demonstrations in Iran. Obama is no GW or Dick Cheney! He lacks the judgment and the character to make the right decision. Obama is Absent!
Why does he (Obama) – “See No Evil, Hear No Evil and Speak No Evil” when is comes to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the Mullah Regime in Iran or the “Jihadist”, “Islamofascism” and “Islamic Terrorist” (banned by State Department on April 24th, 2009).
http://infidelsarecool.com/2008/04/24/confirmed-words-jihadist-islamofascism-and-islamic-terrorist-banned-by-state-department/
Why does president Obama “See No Evil, Hear No Evil and Speak No Evil” – just look at Obama’s roots. Obama has now confirmed his father is a Muslim. Why didn’t Obama and the Main Stream Media (MSM) mention this fact before the 2008 Presidential Election? Why, we all know why – then McCain would have beaten the Teleprompter.
Now, looking back on the election – it is really hard to believable that John McCain couldn’t even win against a Teleprompter!
June 3, 2009 – Obama Renews Openness About His Muslim Roots Ahead of Egypt Speech
President Obama has spoken proudly of American Muslims, even referencing his heritage as the son of a Muslim man, ahead of his highly anticipated speech Thursday in Cairo aimed at shoring up relations between the U.S. and the Muslim world.
For the complete article go to > http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/03/obamas-embrace-muslim-history-return/
Well, you finally guessed why Obama will “See No Evil, Hear No Evil and Speak No Evil”. Obama believes that a Muslim should not criticize another Muslim. This is why Obama will remain “Absent” when it comes to saying anything about Mahmoud or the Mullahs!
You can take this to the Bank – Obama will remain out to lunch when it comes to the “People Power” in Iran! They and the World will find out that they are on their own. There will be silence from the United Nations, president Obama and he administration. Obama doesn’t deserve an upper case letter p in the word president before his name.
Do you remember Obama during the campaign giving his finger to John McCain and Hillary Clinton? Now, look at everything that Obama and Rahm Emanuel (Chief of Staff) have done. They are continuously giving the “Finger” to anyone who disagrees with them and their objective of remaking America!
November 6th, 2008 – Rahm Emanuel: “Dead! Dead! Dead!” Alex Jones
It is all about “The One” – president Obama’s ego!
Has anyone seen Obama’s birth certificate or his medical records? The MSM is out to lunch and Absent on this subject!
Jim, I don’t think MSM is out to lunch or absent…only enablers. They all know the truth just as we did during the campaign. Obama hides the Muslim background when it’s convenient and drags it out also when he thinks it will benefit his so called credentials. You have to be pretty well versed in Islam to be able to chant the call to prayers…as he is. The worst fraud ever perpetuated on the country.
Hi Ann,
You’re right – the MSM are “enablers”. I also agree with your comment that Obama is “The worst fraud ever perpetuated on the country.” Obama is a person without a Unite States Birth Certificate!
I decided to do a little research on the expression that I used in my previous post. It should read – “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil”.
These are some reference:
Three wise monkeys from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The three wise monkeys (Japanese: 三猿, san’en or sanzaru, or 三匹の猿, sanbiki no saru, literally “three monkeys”) are a pictorial maxim. Together they embody the proverbial principle to “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil”. The three monkeys are Mizaru, covering his eyes, who sees no evil; Kikazaru, covering his ears, who hears no evil; and Iwazaru, covering his mouth, who speaks no evil. For complete description go to > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_wise_monkeys
Welcome to the Three Monkeys
For a history lesson, you can go to > http://www.thethreemonkeys.com/
Please follow me on this. The Christian doctrine of the Trinity teaches the unity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit – three persons into one God – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity
Now, we have “The Three Monkeys” all rolled into one person as the “The Messiah, The One and the lord Barack Hussein Obama”!
I am thinking about sending a gift of “The Three Monkeys” to the White House. This gift would come from http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=see+speak+monkeys&_armrs=1&_from=&_sop=12
In February 2009, president Obama decided to return the bust of Winston Churchill to his home country. For addition reading go to > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/4623148/Barack-Obama-sends-bust-of-Winston-Churchill-on-its-way-back-to-Britain.html
Do you think president Obama will accept my gift of “The Three Monkeys” or should I send it to Robert Gibbs, Obama’s Press Secretary to be opened at a White House – Press Briefing Meeting?
It’s the 1960s all over again. Instead of Nikita Khrushchev and the Cuban missile crisis, there’s Kim Jong Il aiming missiles at Hawaii. Instead of the Bay of Pigs with Cubans rising up against a dictator and his thugs, there’s the uprising of the Iranian people against the mullahs and the Basijis. Again bullies and dictators are testing a new, young American president. We need real men in the White House who can stare down the barrel of a gun without flinching, not so-called “progressive” effetes who don’t understand there is NOTHING progressive about slavery — no matter where it’s practiced.
I couldn’t say it any better myself. Enjoy another thoughtful point of view that is not just a knee jerk “hate everything about Obama, George Bush worship society” talking point.
Tiananmen Moments
by Patrick J. Buchanan
06/19/2009
On Dec. 14, 1825, following the death of Alexander I — who had seen off Napoleon — his brother, the grand duke, who had just taken the oath as Czar Nicholas I, was confronted by mutinous troops and rebels in Senate Square before the Winter Palace.
For hours, the czar stood at the end of the square as the crowd shouted for a constitution or for Nicholas’ brother Constantine to take the throne. Shots were exchanged.
As darkness fell, a czarist general rode up to Nicholas and said, “Sire, clean the square with gunfire — or abdicate.”
The cannons belched — and Nicholas reigned for 30 years.
Most autocratic regimes face such moments.
After Joseph Stalin’s death in 1953, East German workers rebelled, and were crushed. Rather than let the Hungarian Revolution triumph, in November 1956 Nikita Khrushchev ordered in the tanks. In August 1968, Leonid Brezhnev sent in tanks again to crush Prague Spring. In 1981, Moscow ordered Gen. Jaruzelski to smash Solidarity. Those communists did not shrink from massacre to keep what they worshipped: power.
In June 1989, Beijing, rather than let hundreds of thousands of dissidents occupy Tiananmen Square, waited for nightfall and sent in tanks and rural troops, avoiding the fate of the communist regimes of Eastern Europe.
Authoritarian rulers who recoil at bloodshed to preserve their power have not fared well.
Louis XVI let the mob lead him away from Versailles, which he never saw again. When artillery captain Bonaparte asked one of the late king’s ministers why Louis had not used his cannons, the minister is said to have replied, “The king of France does not use artillery on his own people.”
To which Napoleon is said to have replied, “What an idiot.”
The Shah refused to use his army on the rebels and lost his throne. Mikhail Gorbachev refused to use the army to save Moscow’s allies in Eastern Europe and lost the Soviet Empire.
Though Gorbachev is hailed in the West for not being a Khrushchev, no true authoritarian would regard him as a great statesman.
Tehran appears to be facing its Tiananmen moment.
Hundreds of thousands are still demonstrating against Friday’s election and the regime that validated it. They are now being joined by crowds in cities where Baluchi, Arabs, Kurds and Azeris outnumber Persians, thus imperiling the unity of this diverse nation.
It is hard to believe that this theocratic regime, backed by the Revolutionary Guard and clerics, will not do whatever is necessary to preserve its power and national unity.
This is another reason President Obama is right not to declare that the United States is on the side of the demonstrators in Tehran or the other cities — and against the regime.
Should this end in bloodshed, Obama would be blamed for having instigated it, and then abandoned the demonstrators, as Ike’s U.S. Information Agency was blamed for having urged the Hungarians to rise and then left them to their fate.
When Vice President Nixon went to the bridge at Andau to welcome the Hungarian patriots fleeing the bloodbath, many cursed America for having misled them into believing we would be at their side.
If Obama cannot assist the demonstrators, why declare we are with them? That would call into question the nationalist credentials of the protesters by tying them to a power not universally loved in Iran. It would play into the hand of the regime by confirming charges that the crowds are “rent-a-mobs” like the ones Kermit Roosevelt and the CIA used to dump over the regime of Muhammad Mossadegh in 1953.
Moreover, the alternative to the Ayatollah and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not a republic that will renounce Islamism and Iran’s nuclear program. It is ex-Presidents Khatami and Rafsanjani, and ex-Prime Minister Mir-Hossein Mousavi, all of whom trace their roots to the Revolution of 1979 and none of whom bears any great love of Uncle Sam.
It is Ayatollah Khomeini’s boys versus Ayatollah Khamenei’s boys. As Obama observed, in policy terms, there is no great difference.
For six days, the world has watched riveted as hundreds of thousands of Iranians peacefully protested what they believe was a stolen election, challenging the ayatollah who validated it just hours after the polls closed. For six days, the regime, born of the Islamic Revolution of 1979, has been leaking legitimacy and credibility in the eyes of its own people, the Islamic world, the whole world.
Why interfere? Why turn a widening confrontation between the Ayatollah Khamenei and the people into a spat between the president of the United States and the president of Iran?
It is impossible to believe a denunciation of the regime by Obama will cause it to stay its hand if it believes its power is imperiled. But it is certain that if Obama denounces Tehran, those demonstrators will be portrayed as dupes and agents of America before and after they meet their fate.
If standing up and denouncing the Ayatollah and Ahmadinejad from 7,000 miles away is moral heroism, it is moral heroism at other people’s expense.
The West will be blamed no matter what political leaders have to say about the demonstrations and the violence perpetrated on Iranians. Few in Iran care about what Obama has to say, including the Iranians on the street risking their lives.
There has been unrest for a number of years. It is now coming to a boil. The elections were simply a fuse that ignited deep rooted feelings against the oppression that many Iranians have been feeling, particularly the new generation.
http://pacificgatepost.blogspot.com/2009/06/new-dawn-for-iran.html
This genie is out of the bottle. Change may be slow in coming, nevertheless, it will come.
Internal radical revolutions NEVER work out. Hopefully this will be a gradual movement to reform and change.
Hi Mooseburger,
Pat Buchanan might be right?
A better read on this subject is from Amir Taheri.
June 20, 2009
DEEPENING DIVISIONS
CRACKDOWN MAY START TODAY
BILLED as “unity prayers,” yesterday’s congregation at Tehran University’s campus instead highlighted the deep divisions that are tearing apart the Khomeinist ruling elite.
For the complete article go to > http://www.nypost.com/seven/06202009/postopinion/opedcolumnists/deepening_divisions_175116.htm
What’s the position of U.S. State Department? What about Obama’s Foreign Policy Brain Trust? What about the United Nations?
The Green Movement will not go away! It is all about Freedom!
“The Messiah, The One and the lord Barack Hussein Obama” will remain Absent – “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” is the Obama’s New Foreign Policy!
Hi Jim
Jim Said:
“The Messiah, The One and the lord Barack Hussein Obama” will remain Absent – “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” is the Obama’s New Foreign Policy!
Obama is in charge of America’s foriegn policy that is for a certainty. It is sad to have witnessed the discrediting and decline of a once proud Conservative movement turn into weak, sniveling fingerpointing group even before Inaguration Day. It is sad to see so many who are against so much, and for so little, offering no solutions except more tax cuts. There is not one single issue that I have heard Conservative folks agree with Obama on yet. There is no common ground left to be found. The partisanship of some trumps their patriotism, that goes for both side of the isle. The “Good of the Country” theme so strongly used in criticism of Liberals for the last 8 years has quickly been tossed and is now and will remain “Absent” as well from many Conservatives. It doesn’t suit their purpose anymore, not until they are back in power. Liberals have abandoned their previous stance too, the polarities have shifted 180 degrees.
There are some who seem so invested in Obama’s failure that their perceptions are skewed by their desire so see him fail, and for every single thing he says or does to be anti American. This is because of the same bias they despise in others is present in themselves, just on an opposite polarity. Liberal bias and Conservative bias are the Ying and Yang of the polarized spectrum. Most of the REAL WORLD in America doesn’t live there.
I didn’t vote for Bush, but do have some good things to say about him, and have here at FA on more than one occaision. Most people don’t see the all bad/everything bad Obama that some here see.
Bush had his chance to get things done, it’s Obama’s turn. Healthy and pointed critcizims are good and always part of out Democratic process. To be invested in and actively promote the failure of our government and foriegn policy is no more right now than it was when Liberals were doing it to Bush. Dick Lugar gives Obama an “A” on foriegn policy, including the current response to the Iran election. Obama is not stupid, and he knows what he is doing, and may well and probably is working behind the scene in ways we don’t know. Let’s hope and pray that a good change comes about in Iran and not push for war and conflict unless absolutely required.
Do you really think that if the President gets up and gives a speech about hoping for and backing that the protesters in Iran should overthrow their government that it would not be used as a Bogeyman to tie the protesters directly to American interests and the 1953 regime change we did? 1953 is not forgotten in Iran, no more than the Revolutionary war has been forgotten here. That will hurt and undermine the protesters efforts, certainly it won’t be helpful. We are in no position to invade Iran and help them. This would be no different than conservatives calling Obama a terrorist sympathizer, which they have done and still do, as well as anything else they think might stick to the wall. It used to be an effective tactic in years gone by, and Atwater and Rove rode that horse until it died. Willie Horton scared the crap outa folks….But like a broken record, it is not listened to anymore from Conservatives here in the US except amongst their own and has lost it’s credibility in the mainstream, and sacrificed the Conservatives credibility as well. That is about the only consistant theme Conservatives have been able to muster, and it is worn out and not effective.
In Iran, it may still be an effective scare tactic to sway the masses with and it would not be wise to promote that angle.
It’s about being smart in your approach to Iran right now, we tried it W’s way, and it didn’t bring change about, only defiance. Would some prefer war to solve the problems in Iran? All the real God loving Conservative Christians should practice their faith, pray that our leaders are doing what is right, and ask for our Creator to bless our Country’s leadership. That’s a heavy load for angst filled liberals when Bush was in office, and for Conservatives now, but this would be what Jesus would want to have you do, would it not? If this is the principled Christian stance Conservatives use to get elected, why do they hid their fire under a bushel after they are elected? Jesus said, “you shall know them by their fruits” If politics trumps your faith, then your faith is bearing bad fruit, not good, and the truth is not in you. Can you privately pray for your enemies as Jesus taught and publicly and relentlessly scumbag them, not as a matter of policy disagreement, but in a personal way and reconcile that with your faith?
If you are Pro Life Conservatives, ( and BTW, I am also Pro Life on the abortion issue, so no lectures to me about that please) it seems you would also be Pro Life when it comes to War and wanting to do what ever is possible to avoid it, not defend a war of choice or push for further loss of life that is not 100% unavoidable. You would only invoke it when the defense of our Country is at stake, not for use as diplomatic resolutions and to promote Democracy or enforce sanctions from a UN body that Conservatives continually hold in contempt anyway.
If there be bloodshed in Iran, let it be for the cause of their choice for freedom, not for another Bay of Pigs we promote and promise, and leave them poor bastar** hanging out to dry. Embracing and encouraging them at the early stages would have been the kiss of death to their movement, and the excuse desired by the existing powers to delegitimize and crush the movement before it ever got legs under it.
Even Bush had enough sense to say, when he endorsed McCain, (my paraphrase) that if he wants me to campaign for him, I will, if he wants me not to, that’s ok too, however I can help him. Was Bush absent from his Values because he didn’t go out and campaign with McCain, speak out everyday on his behalf? Or did Bush understand the best strategy to actually help and not hurt McCain was to lay low and let McCain work his own campaign distancing himself from Bush as far as possible? Why did the whole Republican Party abandon Bush? Were they cowards abandoning their principles like some say Obama is now regarding Iran? Or was it simply the best strategy available?
@mooseburger: citing Pat Buchanan’s piece is a sure sign you have chosen to ignore the call for human rights and freedom and sided with the bloody Iranian theocracy.
And as for “we tried it W’s way, and it didn’t bring change about, only defiance ” You are ignoring the foundation for this very happening in Iran which President Bush carefully laid over eight years in Iraq and Lebanon and in Iran itself.
Funny how you folks fought Bush every step of the way, even tried your best to force us to lose and withdraw in Iraq because you hated Bush so much. You poisoned the well of political discourse and now it’s your turn in the White House and you complain about how the water tastes.\
You folks are only reaping what you have sown and you don’t like it.
Well tough. Too bad. It’s your fault. Don’t come pointing fingers at conservatives.
As for trashing Obama at every opportunity we can only look at the successful model you people left us from the last eight years.
It makes me laugh when one of you comes around and waves the flag saying something like “we’re all Americans, let’s unite behind Obama.” Get real. The man is an aberration in office and a mistake that will soon be corrected.
Meanwhile, the entire world is seeing what an empty suit he is at this critical time. No one expects him to launch an invasion of Iran or arm the protesters. Neither do we expect him to be so lame as to make Jimmy Carter seem strong and resolute by comparison.
You can keep spouting all you want, but it’s nothing but empty rhetoric which has been exposed for what it is.
Mike, my friend, I think in your zeal to defend all things Conservative and decry all things Liberal, you may have overlooked the fact that I said, and believe that this conduct is wrong from either side. I try to leave room for the fact that these are my opinions and beliefs, and if I am found to be wrong at some point, I hope I will have the capacity to see it, admit it and learn something from it. Maybe this means having the capacity to realize that something that occurs that is not a good thing can and does become something that turns out good, perhaps due to good fortune, luck, or the Hand of God.
A few times I have posted here and been sternly chastised for painting all Conservatives as being from the exact same cloth. I had chosen the words “some folks” at the time, but that was twisted into me condemning all Conservatives. Mike, your words:
“Funny how you folks fought Bush every step of the way, even tried your best to force us to lose and withdraw in Iraq because you hated Bush so much. You poisoned the well of political discourse and now it’s your turn in the White House and you complain about how the water tastes.\
You folks are only reaping what you have sown and you don’t like it.
Well tough. Too bad. It’s your fault. Don’t come pointing fingers at conservatives.
As for trashing Obama at every opportunity we can only look at the successful model you people left us from the last eight years.”
#1: Don’t throw me into the pile of “You Folks” and “You People” Mike. I know right from wrong, there is both right and wrong from Conservatives and Liberals, my job as a citizen is to be informed, get involved and vote for the best course of action and direction of my Local, County, State, and Federal Government as I see it. That normally means I vote a split ticket.
If you need to lump all who you don’t agree with into a big pile of “You People” who began the era of extreem partisanship and uncival discourse in 2000, so you can justify why you are promoting the same behaviour amongst many conservatives now, don’t throw me into that pile, you really don’t know enough about me to warrant that, and your sensitivity to my post shows that it must have stung a bit.
#2 You said: “As for trashing Obama at every opportunity we can only look at the successful model you people left us from the last eight years.”
Thank you Mike, for at least admitting that your opposition to everything Obama is rooted in retribution. I applaud your refreshing honesty, and gives me added insight into your reasoning. You said “it’s your fault” and “You folks are only reaping what you have sown”
You are perhaps one of whom I was referring to in my earlier post when I stated: “This is because of the same bias they despise in others is present in themselves”
As I said, “Most of the REAL WORLD in America doesn’t live there.”
This is why the Country embraced the change we did. And if we decide we don’t like this change, we will change it again. Not for the good of any Zealot Liberal or Conservative Party, but for the good of our Country and the good of our Children.
Mike, those who don’t agree with you on every issue right now, it doesn’t mean there won’t be agreement in the future, or that in times past there was not agreement in the common cause. But I can say this without fear of being too far off base, the “successful mode you people left us from the last eight years.” you speak of also included what solutions were being offered as well as the criticisms, and also involved some agreement with current policies. Bush got his tax cuts and funding for the war, and many of the things he wanted. Bush could not have had more support from America and the World at one juncture of his Presidency. It was his to use wisely or blow, and not just me Mike, but the majority of voters and Bush’s own party turned away from him. Just remember to throw in the Republican Party into the pile of “you People” that turned their backs and rendered the verdict on Mr. George W. Bush.
@mooseburger said “Don’t throw me into the pile of “You Folks” and “You People”
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck IT’S A DUCK!
As for “Thank you Mike, for at least admitting that your opposition to everything Obama is rooted in retribution. ”
Nothing could be further from the truth and only a quacking liberal like yourself could even seriously suggest such a fiction.
I have only ONE MOTIVATION, and that is to get the right policy enacted. Everything Obama is doing is wrong on so many levels.
The fact that I can throw the hate YOU PEOPLE leveled on George Bush for EIGHT YEARS back in your face is just a bonus.
Mike, nobody hated George Bush for 8 years, he clearly had the support of the whole country after 911. I know I was proud of him and supported his efforts, until the run up to the Iraq war. He squandered his good will the country had for him, and the election results are the proof.
You have a tendency to attack the messenger personally while you engage in your rebuttals, next you will put my photo and Willie Horton up on the same page….your wrong Mike, and it rings hollow. If you want to make it personal, that’s on you, some folks get past Junior High School social tactics and some don’t.
You didn’t address the fact that the whole Republican Party campaign for the Presidency was rooted in distancing themselves from George W. They Quack, Quack, Quack very loudly too, in their rejection of Bush and his direction for the Country. They turned their back on him just like the majority of the country did. If Bush and his policies were a winner, they would have been riding that Horse to Victory, instead, they sent that Horse to the glue factory themselves.
@mooseburger: “Mike, nobody hated George Bush for 8 years “????
Comedy Night?
What planet do you live on Mossy?
Quack! Quack! Quack!
Sorry, but your entire comment is irrelevant to the topic under discussion. I have no desire to be your enabler here in your effort to derail the conversation.
Do you think it is possible for you to stay on topic?
MIKE SAID: “Sorry, but your entire comment is irrelevant to the topic under discussion. I have no desire to be your enabler here in your effort to derail the conversation.
Do you think it is possible for you to stay on topic?”
Sure, I can do that Mike. I wasn’t trying to derail anything, only respond to your comments.
Could your concern for staying on topic be how you intend to dodge the question about the Republicans and their Quacking Liberal turncoat behavior toward Bush during the Campaign? I noticed you have no response to that, so you are conceding that point I take it? If you would rather discuss it off group and not derail the topic here feel free to email me.
@mooseburger: I’m not “ducking” anything here Mossy… QUACK! QUACK!
I simply refuse to play your game.
Hi to all you “Mooseburgers”
The president Obama’s polls are starting to go down – see reference listed below.
The will continue to go down, down and down. Why? Becuase everyone will realized the “The Messiah, The One and the lord Barack Hussein Obama” is just a Teleprompter – reading what someone tells him to do.
Who’s the real Obama?
Obama sat in the same church pew for 20-years listening to Rev. Jeremiah Wright of Trinity United Church of Christ! How can anyone defend the indefensible!
Video – BARACK OBAMA Pastor ANTI-AMERICAN Rev Jeremiah Wright Racism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwQWuQVE6sw
Video – More Divisive Hate Speech at Barack Obama’s Church
Do you remember Obama’s position on “Infanticide”?
Video – Obama And Infanticide – Part 1 – 45 Minutes / Documentary Video / Why Was There The Need For The Born Alive Infants Protection Act?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6heVhZfVwR8
Obama is Absent and he will remain Absent on “People Power”. Why? Because this issue does not fit his agenda! What ever or whom ever he disagrees with – then, Obama flips them the “Bird”. Just like he gave the magic finger to John McCain and Hillary Clinton during the election process.
Remember “The Three Monkeys” whenever “The Messiah, The One and the lord Barack Hussein Obama” speaks. Obama will continue to “See No Evil, Hear No Evil, and Speak No Evil”.
Question: Can anyone of you “Mooseburgers” provide me with a reference to Obama’s real Birth Certificate or a reference to Obama’s Medical Records?
The following are news articles about Obama’s position – “See No Evil, Hear No Evil, and Speak No Evil”.
GOP calls Obama timid as he seeks footing on Iran
June 21, 2009
WASHINGTON (AP) – President Barack Obama stuck to his carefully tailored response to Iran’s internal crisis Sunday despite pressure from Republican critics, as he continued to speak up for protesters’ rights without making specific demands on Iran’s hard-line leaders.
For the complete article go to > http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090621/D98VCGNG0.html
Resolutely Irresolute – Obama dithers while Tehran burns.
Weekly Standard
June 29, 2009
The events of the past week in Iran, following the June 12 presidential election there, have been remarkable and hopeful. It’s been a moment when one would like a president of the United States–who has, in such moments, a supporting but not an inconsequential role–to rise to the occasion. Barack Obama hasn’t. We are therefore put in the position of hoping that the words of an American president are being mostly ignored, that his weakness won’t matter, and that the forces of reform or revolution will be able to prevail–as they may–with the support of many in America, if not the president.
For the complete article go to > http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/016/652qvgrz.asp
“This Is the Moment”?
June 20th, 2009 4:10 pm
Let Me Count the Ways Why Obama Should at Last Speak Out ( —I write this at around noon on Saturday, and suspect the pressure of public outrage will soon get to Obama, and he soon will recant and start sounding Reaganesque)
For the complete article go to > http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavishanson/this-is-the-moment/
Daily Presidential Tracking Poll
Sunday, June 21, 2009
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Sunday shows that 32% of the nation’s voters now Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President.
Thirty-four percent (34%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -2. That’s the President’s lowest rating to date and the first time the Presidential Approval Index has fallen below zero for Obama (see trends).
Sixty percent (60%) of Democrats Strongly Approve of the President’s performance but only 8% of Republicans share that view. Sixty-one percent (61%) of Republicans Strongly Disapprove.
Check out our weekly review of key polls to see “What They Told Us.”
For the complete article go to > http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll