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Scott Malensek
14 years ago
We knew it was gonna happen. Me, I don’t care too much. Yeah, I really don’t. There’s 3 reasons for this:
1) I’m more concerned with success in Iraq than whether it came under Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush, Bush, Obama, or Romney. First and foremost the important thing has GOT to be that there’s success. Political ownership is second to that at best
2) George Bush’s legacy is 911 and Iraq. Fareed Zakaria (fair weather patriot, foul weather partisan that he is) cannot change that w an oped. Even a full on DNC PR push can’t change the fact that when the chips were down, and Dems called for cutting off supplies to force a withdrawal, Bush held his ground. He tried multiple policies, and finally succeeded.
3) In the grand scheme of things, The $500-700bn war in Iraq, the 40,000 American casualties and 100-200,000 Iraq casualties are nothing-NOTHING compared to what will happen if Obama stays the course with North Korea and/or Iran. A conventional shooting war with North Korea is like a tinderbox waiting to explode, and power hungry leaders inside are flicking matches around trying to look tough. As soon as one of those matches, one of those belligerent actions claims an American life…that’s it; the tinder box explodes, and a conventional war in North Korea will make Iraq look like a skirmish on every level. In the case of Iran, if Obama doesn’t stop them, if he doesn’t even LOOK like he’s gonna stop them, then Netanyahu will have to attack. Counter attacks from Iran literally shoot at/over American forces caught in the middle, and it’s the height of pipedreaming to think that when Iran and Israel get into a shooting war that American forces can somehow stay out of the fighting while based, operating, sailing, and flying through their no-man’s land between the belligerents.
Success in Iraq is Obama’s legacy. Pha! Nothing could demonstrate Zakaria’s ignorance more. Success in Iraq-if it happens under Obama’s term-will be done with the Bush plan, and Zakaria, Obama, Reid, Pelosi, and any other twit can claim it, but then comes the inevitable follow up, “What did you DO to bring success to Iraq?” *crickets*
Ironically, there is an answer to that. OBAMA: “Well, after taking Congress and the White House we stopped trying to cut off supplies to the troops in the field. We stopped opposing this war like I did in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008, and low and behold….when opposition to the war ended, success came.”
History has a way of washing some of their sins, and showing the stains left by others.
philly_nj
14 years ago
President Obama can claim he won the Iraq war..but in the long run can he claim he won peace ?
.
@Scott Malensek said: “History has a way of washing some of their sins, and showing the stains left by others. ”
If that were true then Democrats would have been held accountable for doing everything they could to block Reagan from winning the Cold War.
As illustrated above, Democrats have a remarkable talent for revising their view, such as on regime change and WMD, and no one seems to notice.
I think it IS important to recognize who was right and who was wrong about Iraq. Because we are going to be in a similar situation again at some point and I would hate to see the sorry history of the last 30 years of Democrat obstruction repeated for a third time.
BackwardsBoy
14 years ago
Is this the same war that Harry Reid famously declared “lost”?
Fit fit
14 years ago
Everybody knows Obama won the Iraq War back in the summer of 08′. Time horizons.
Interesting comment, Fit. Especially since the SOFA wasn’t agreed upon by the BUSH admin and Iraqis in Dec 2008. No one felt the need to consult the annointed one.
Truth and facts are everything. Amazing you choose to ignore them.
philly, Obama cannot claim to have won a war he opposed on both moral and financial grounds. What he can claim as a legacy is not to have botched it’s success.
fitfit is trying to suggest that in summer of 08, it was Obama who forced President Bush to a quasi timeline to end the Iraq War, but in doing so fitfit is ignoring the 3 things:
1) It was President Bush’s “time horizons” not Obama’s
2) A Time Horizon is not a timeline, it’s a benchmark for success with a vague idea of when it MIGHT happen
3) There were 5 very separate and distinct plans for Iraq from 2002 onwards (ironically, the first was created by Ambassador Barbara Bodine who was an avid Bush hater and the primary person who failed in every sense of the word regarding the USS Cole in 2000). Each of the plans for Iraq had benchmarks for success, and general ideas of when those would happen if everything went well. The enemy tries hard to prevent that, and so plans had to be adapted.
It’s the pit of dark humor to suggest that Barack Obama somehow did ANYTHING positive regarding the Iraq War other than end political opposition to success.
No political opposition to success=success
Gosh, that was complex
liam09
14 years ago
Of course its Obama’s legacy. Just like how Al Gore invented the internet and changed our lives forever, Obama will live on as the greatest president to ever take office. And the coolest.
We knew it was gonna happen. Me, I don’t care too much. Yeah, I really don’t. There’s 3 reasons for this:
1) I’m more concerned with success in Iraq than whether it came under Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush, Bush, Obama, or Romney. First and foremost the important thing has GOT to be that there’s success. Political ownership is second to that at best
2) George Bush’s legacy is 911 and Iraq. Fareed Zakaria (fair weather patriot, foul weather partisan that he is) cannot change that w an oped. Even a full on DNC PR push can’t change the fact that when the chips were down, and Dems called for cutting off supplies to force a withdrawal, Bush held his ground. He tried multiple policies, and finally succeeded.
3) In the grand scheme of things, The $500-700bn war in Iraq, the 40,000 American casualties and 100-200,000 Iraq casualties are nothing-NOTHING compared to what will happen if Obama stays the course with North Korea and/or Iran. A conventional shooting war with North Korea is like a tinderbox waiting to explode, and power hungry leaders inside are flicking matches around trying to look tough. As soon as one of those matches, one of those belligerent actions claims an American life…that’s it; the tinder box explodes, and a conventional war in North Korea will make Iraq look like a skirmish on every level. In the case of Iran, if Obama doesn’t stop them, if he doesn’t even LOOK like he’s gonna stop them, then Netanyahu will have to attack. Counter attacks from Iran literally shoot at/over American forces caught in the middle, and it’s the height of pipedreaming to think that when Iran and Israel get into a shooting war that American forces can somehow stay out of the fighting while based, operating, sailing, and flying through their no-man’s land between the belligerents.
Success in Iraq is Obama’s legacy. Pha! Nothing could demonstrate Zakaria’s ignorance more. Success in Iraq-if it happens under Obama’s term-will be done with the Bush plan, and Zakaria, Obama, Reid, Pelosi, and any other twit can claim it, but then comes the inevitable follow up, “What did you DO to bring success to Iraq?” *crickets*
Ironically, there is an answer to that. OBAMA: “Well, after taking Congress and the White House we stopped trying to cut off supplies to the troops in the field. We stopped opposing this war like I did in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008, and low and behold….when opposition to the war ended, success came.”
History has a way of washing some of their sins, and showing the stains left by others.
President Obama can claim he won the Iraq war..but in the long run can he claim he won peace ?
.
@Scott Malensek said: “History has a way of washing some of their sins, and showing the stains left by others. ”
If that were true then Democrats would have been held accountable for doing everything they could to block Reagan from winning the Cold War.
As illustrated above, Democrats have a remarkable talent for revising their view, such as on regime change and WMD, and no one seems to notice.
I think it IS important to recognize who was right and who was wrong about Iraq. Because we are going to be in a similar situation again at some point and I would hate to see the sorry history of the last 30 years of Democrat obstruction repeated for a third time.
Is this the same war that Harry Reid famously declared “lost”?
Everybody knows Obama won the Iraq War back in the summer of 08′. Time horizons.
Interesting comment, Fit. Especially since the SOFA wasn’t agreed upon by the BUSH admin and Iraqis in Dec 2008. No one felt the need to consult the annointed one.
Truth and facts are everything. Amazing you choose to ignore them.
philly, Obama cannot claim to have won a war he opposed on both moral and financial grounds. What he can claim as a legacy is not to have botched it’s success.
@Fit fit:
What are you yammering on about?
fitfit is trying to suggest that in summer of 08, it was Obama who forced President Bush to a quasi timeline to end the Iraq War, but in doing so fitfit is ignoring the 3 things:
1) It was President Bush’s “time horizons” not Obama’s
2) A Time Horizon is not a timeline, it’s a benchmark for success with a vague idea of when it MIGHT happen
3) There were 5 very separate and distinct plans for Iraq from 2002 onwards (ironically, the first was created by Ambassador Barbara Bodine who was an avid Bush hater and the primary person who failed in every sense of the word regarding the USS Cole in 2000). Each of the plans for Iraq had benchmarks for success, and general ideas of when those would happen if everything went well. The enemy tries hard to prevent that, and so plans had to be adapted.
It’s the pit of dark humor to suggest that Barack Obama somehow did ANYTHING positive regarding the Iraq War other than end political opposition to success.
No political opposition to success=success
Gosh, that was complex
Of course its Obama’s legacy. Just like how Al Gore invented the internet and changed our lives forever, Obama will live on as the greatest president to ever take office. And the coolest.