North Korea Threatening to Attack US Ships

Loading

olik


Recap:
-North Korea tests nuke
-Obama gives speech saying he’s outraged, then goes golfing
-North Korea fires two missiles
-Obama’s UN Ambassador, Susan Rice (the same woman that the 911 Commission says turned down Sudan’s offer to hand over Osama Bin Laden) goes on Today Show and says UN is going to meet, threatens more UN sanctions on the already fully isolated country
-UN meets, doesn’t pass new sanctions, does send “stern letter”
-North Korea responds by test firing another anti-ship missile
-Obama Press Secretary is pressed by ABC News Jake Tapper to explain what Obama’s next attempt will be, Gibbs dodges (clearly had no idea & Admin is fully stumped)
-Russia goes on military alert concerned there could be nuclear war
-North Korea responds by announcing it is no longer bound by the 50+ yr old cease-fire/armistice, and that it will take action.
-North Korea also restarts its shut down nuclear facilities
North Korea then declares it will attack US and/or South Korean ships

North Korea warned Wednesday that any attempt to stop, board or inspect its ships would constitute a “grave violation.”

The regime also said it could no longer promise the safety of U.S. and South Korean warships and civilian vessels in the waters near the Korea’s western maritime border.

“They should bear in mind that the (North) has tremendous military muscle and its own method of strike able to conquer any targets in its vicinity at one stroke or hit the U.S. on the raw, if necessary,” it said.

The maritime border has long been a flashpoint between the two Koreas. North Korea disputes the line unilaterally drawn by the United Nations at the end of the Koreas’ three-year war in 1953, and has demanded it be redrawn further south.

The truce signed in 1953 and subsequent military agreements call for both sides to refrain from warfare, but doesn’t cover the waters off the west coast.

North Korea has used the maritime border dispute to provoke two deadly naval skirmishes – in 1999 and 2002.

On Wednesday, the regime promised “unimaginable and merciless punishment” for anyone daring to challenge its ships.

Personally, I think this is all the result of a regime change happening inside DPRK, but it could also be a military distraction similar to the cause of the 1983 Falkland Islands War. In any event, let’s HOPE Obama is ready to lead on day 130 or so ’cause he sure as hell ain’t leading on day 1, and he’s gonna have to start leading instead of blaming if he wants things to CHANGE.

0 0 votes
Article Rating
Subscribe
Notify of
31 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments

The next time we get into one of those “relitigating of the invasion of Iraq” conversations, think about this cluster and how spread out we are.

What ARE you talking about? You’re not really buying that line that the US can only handle occupying Iraq and nothing else in the world? Somehow, Democrats like FDR, Truman, and JFK were able to juggle far larger forces. Besides…Democrats ended the war in Iraq back in 2007 when they took Congress. Right? That was their promise. If it’s a problem, why doesn’t Obama instantly, immediately, and completely just pull the troops out of Iraq like he wanted to in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008?

Scott M: “You’re not really buying that line that the US can only handle occupying Iraq and nothing else in the world? “

Oh, you are forgetting Afghanistan and yes, if a full scale war broke out in Korea our assets are already committed to two other fronts, and this would be a third front and with much more powerful conventional army and air force than we fought with in Iraq.

blast…

You _do_ know that we still have troops in Korea, don’t you? And that South Korea also has a military? which works together with the US Forces?

Blast, enough with the BDS allready. Yes, I can see this is poorly disguised BDS. You aren’t fooling anyone.

suek: You _do_ know that we still have troops in Korea, don’t you? And that South Korea also has a military? which works together with the US Forces?

We have about 29,000 troops in Korea, and South Korea has about 600,000 troops, North Korea has nuclear weapons and a tremendous force of over a million troops and… (from Global Security)

North Korea continues to position forces into the area just north of the DMZ— in a position to threaten Combined Forces Command and all of Seoul with little warning. Seventy percent of their active force, including approximately 700,000 troops, over 8,000 artillery systems, and 2,000 tanks, is postured within 90 miles of the Demilitarized Zone.

So if war broke out, our 29,000 and the South Korean 600,000 (which are not all arrayed at the DMZ) would be in difficult straits without immediate argumentation from additional US forces. Needless to say operating wars on two fronts… not just the deployments of forces around the world, we would be hard pressed to answer North Korean aggression. That is why they flaunt their abilities right now as we are left to talk loudly with a small stick.

Seventy percent of their active force, including approximately 700,000 troops, over 8,000 artillery systems, and 2,000 tanks, is postured within 90 miles of the Demilitarized Zone.

The technical term for that is “target rich environment”.

By the way, that appears to be a quote, but you failed to provide attribution in the form of a link. Links are easy; if you need help, ask. Otherwise you just appear intellectually lazy.

“let’s HOPE Obama is ready to lead on day 130 or so ’cause he sure as hell ain’t leading on day 1,”

As a former military person, during the election. I continually pounded home the idea that Obama is not the person to have as COMMANDER IN CHIEF but those who were star struck voted him in anyway.

Right now as a nation we are commander-LESS in chief!

“That is why they flaunt their abilities right now ”

I don’t quite agree. They could have done the same WHILE BUSH WAS IN OFFICE. But now that BARRY the smiling idiot is in office, they are starting up again. I WONDER WHY!

Because they know he will do nothing to stop them. And if they attack our ships, he’ll do nothing.
I doubt he did anything with the pirates. The generals did it THEN informed him what was done.
I don’t think he has the spine nor testicular fortitude to order a hit on anyone (unless it is a political opponent).

With Barry playing the smiling clown in charge, once Ahmadinejad sees that he won’t do anything, it will only get worse.

If Barry gets re-elected and the dems keep control, just remember America as it WAS and in fondness, because we will not be here in 8 years. We’ll be the United States of China.

I seem to remember a couple wars where there were fronts in africa, europe, asia, and the soviet union (generally speaking). And we managed to still win those wars (against several large enemies). Oh, the world wars.

Its not about numbers in this day and age. We no longer line up in straight lines and take turns shooting each other with musket balls. As Dave said, having that many forces concentrated on the border would be great. Obviously N. Korea wouldn’t have advanced their tactics since the 1950’s. Now is era where one well placed person can take out 100’s or 1000’s of people. A nuclear armed country (especially one that can’t really reach the U.S. without getting shot down first) is not a real threat like china or russia. They launch a nuke, or decide to nuke the south, I am pretty sure the North will be the night light of that part of the world for years to come.

Plus China has a vested interest in making sure that the North doesn’t do anything stupid. Along with the fact that we (the u.s.) feed the majority of N Korea because their stupid leader can’t. Remember the first nuke they tested? We stopped our shipments and within a couple months they were ready and willing to listen.

So blast, NK can’t feed the civilians, right? Do you think the military is doing that much better? Not to mention their weapon systems are no match for ours. Yes they will launch a massive attack if they attack. However, I have faith that our military is prepared for just such a scenario. The question is whether obama is.

I had a buddy who was a Fire control guy for a division of artillery in Korea a few years back and he talked about the NK’s Artillery along the border. He said that yeah they had a lot of tubes and yes it could get messy the first couple of salvos they got off is they fired first with surprise but then he said it would have been a very bad day for those NK gunners as we know where they are and we have better ways of firing back and from longer ranges. The NK numbers look impressive as hell and most people not aquainted with the military take a look at the numbers and go damn if they fire all those guns we don’t stand a chance. And yes while quantity have a quality of their own quality is very important. Lets not forget that most of the NK weapon systems are not much more advanced then what they used during the Korean war. There has been some improvement but no much. Artillery duels tend to be very short lived exercises if one side does not have the ability to move there artillery between salvos as the other sides counterbattery fire will destroy it and there is one thing we are very very good at and that is counter battery fire. Then lets get into things like air superiority the NKs are not gonna have it there Migs are old and probably not well kept up on things like maintenance as the NKs have got to have a spare parts problem. Between SK US and Japanese air forces in the region the NKs air force is gonna get chewed apart and thats going to lead to all kinds of problems for their ground forces. Really the only good the NKs could hope for would be that a preemptice nuclear strike by them doen’t get responded to but I some how don’t forsee that happening even with Obama in the White House cuz once those weapons get rolled out all bets are off.

I heard the Chinese stopped sending trainloads of food because the Norks kept the food and the trains.

@blast:

So sad – your BDS.

Your stats – BFD.

You do realize that the ROK Army is larger than ours and that’s before they call up the reserves. I’ve spent several years in the Republic of Korea, my first was spent as a tank platoon leader when Desert Storm kicked off. If ever there was a moment where we were unprepared to back up our forces, that was it. The demented old man, father of the current clown prince, had his best chance then if he really wanted to forcibly reunite the peninsula but that isn’t what it is about.

Since the Armistice was signed both Koreas have used each other to justify whatever they’ve wanted to foist on their people. Fortunately the Republic of Korea is actually a republic these days but that wasn’t always the case. They’ve come along way and are not dependent on us for the bulk of the manpower needed in their defense. Do a little research on the recent moves to complete the handover of control of allied forces to the ROKs.

I’ve been back several times, once when Clinton had his stand off over the missiles and nuke programs and for another tour that included Junior’s big Fourth of July show back in 2006. This is the process, stupid as it may seem, by which the DPRK tries to extract payment from it’s neighbors. The South will ultimately pay because it doesn’t want to have to fight a pointless war that will only force it to have to absorb a retarded version of East Germany. You’ve also forgotten about China. Do you think they want to see the regime collapse if it means that they’ll have a democracy on their border? No, they need their little dog on it’s leash.

blast, I’m beginning to think you don’t put much thought into the comments you make here.

Phil The Nedic is SPOT ON. I’m a former brother of the 75th Regiment, 3rd Battalion, Ft. Benning. (Look it up). Campaigns include Grenada (Urgent Fury) and Lebanon, 1983 (Marine Barracks suffered first suicide truck bombing in WOt). Deployed from the Saipan. I can tell you UNEQUIVOCALLY that just one United States Carrier Battle Group can TOTALLY, AND SWIFTY DESTROY THE ENTIRE COUNTRY OF NORTH KOREA IN A NEW YORK MINUTE. You’ll just have to take my word for it. Just one caveot: Obama has to be willing to engage in asymmetrical warfare of the kind taught to us in the Ranger Regiments. An unprovolked attack by the DPRK on an American Warship is all the excuse we need to turn M. Korea into smoldering cinders. IMHO the sooner the better.

and what did bumbling joe biden say? that bambi would be tested? umm, yeah, and he is gonna flunk. we should have sent the cia in and gotten rid of that freakish little man in power a long time ago, then maybe north korea would be a better place. makes me wonder how much obama really knows abuot how to conduct these kinds of negotiations. i think he is most likely clueless and will screw up royally. the job he has doesn’t have on the job training, yes, there will be hard chioces to make and i don’t think he is equiped to make them.

Nostradamus said: “An unprovolked attack by the DPRK on an American Warship is all the excuse we need to turn M. Korea into smoldering cinders.” I don’t think Obama would do that. He will want to sit down and negotiate and apologize to NK.

More likely is a North Korean abduction of S. Korean, Japanese or U.S. ship with hostages like they did in 1968 . Remember the Pueblo! The Norks STILL have our ship and We want it back!! Payback is a bitch and it is time we play OUR cards!

I love how the article says this:
“Now that the South Korean puppets were so ridiculous as to join in the said racket and dare declare a war against compatriots,” North Korea is “compelled to take a decisive measure,” the Committee for the Peaceful Reunification of Korea said in a statement carried by state media.”

Ummm yeah … I am just so sure that South Korea is just begging to fall under North Korea:
North Korea is Dark

Hard Right:”NK can’t feed the civilians, right?”
Looks like they can’t keep the power grid up either! 😉

tfhr:”You’ve also forgotten about China”
And THAT is the big question mark. I am siding with you on that. I don’t think they would want a democracy there, esp, if they thought it was a puppet for the U.S. (no matter how much of our debt they have)

Nostradamus:”Obama has to be willing …”
And that is the point. I don’t think he has the chutzpah to man up and do what is needed.

Free:”He will want to sit down and negotiate and apologize to NK.”
And probably throw in a great big ol’ hug for good measure.

They smell weakness.

If I am wrong and Obama stands up to them, I’ll gladly apologize. But I don’t think I am in danger of having to do so.

Obama will vote “present” if anything happens.

The BS comments about our weakness are inept. True, as the NORKS know, they can initially cause heavy loss of life and they expect us to be dominated by appeasers, just like the Serbs under the departed Milly the tough guy thought Clinton lacked cajones. The Korea II war, though, would be a defensive war where they must go south while our air goes north and controls the sea. Just how can the Norks control North Korea if their police state army is in the South?? The Norks expect us to do nothing because of their corrupt arrangements with the Chinese and the Russians and because they have no intention of giving us cause by invading the south. The Norks are probably right, and Obi will probably play along with them if they do not invade but our own appeasers crap that our “psyco, exhausted, dumb” military forces are as embarrasingly gutless and brainless as themselves is, ahh, mistaken. Those of us who think a guy who came up in the Chicago machine lacks cajones are, I think, also mistaken.

Eh, the Norks will bide there time. Wait for more Democrat Utopian ideals to kick in… They (dems.) will eventually vote that weapons of mass destruction are barbaric and destroy ours (leaving us defenseless). They will vote to take down our satellites and off shore C.I.A. saying its unfair for us to view them (leaving us blind).

If you ask me today’s liberal and democrat are this country biggest enemy… An enemy at and in the gates.

There are three really big problems w Blasts’ claim about not enough forces:
1) Call me crazy, but Afghanistan is not gonna tie up the US Navy too much. They’re present, but sending destroyers and cruisers to Kabul….ain’t gonna happen.
2) The US Air Force is present in Iraq and Afghanistan, but not overtasked at all
3) somehow-SOMEHOW, the United States managed to fight the largest naval war in the history of man in the Pacific, Atlantic, and Mediterranean all at the same time. And while doing that, there were expeditionary forces of millions of soldiers in Italy, France, North Africa, and all over the Pacific. Any ONE of those expeditionary forces was 3-10x the size of the total US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan

Sorry, but the idea that the US can’t fight anymore wars (until after Dems fulfill their 3yr old promise to end the war in Iraq)…that just isn’t correct. It’s BDS.

UPDATE: Today North Korea has declared that the Armistice following the Korean War has ended.

Obama admin responds to clear, specific, North Korean threat to attack US ships and end 50yr old armistice:
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/national-security-adviser-downplays-n.-korea-threat-2009-05-27.html

@ blast
We would stop them at the DMZ. It would take a week to destroy their air force and antiquated air defense and we would rule the air. Then we would bomb them at will.
I realize how much you and the other lefties hate our military and can’t wait for them to fail at something, but it isn’t going to happen in Korea. Yeah, they have a nuke. Using a nuke would guarantee the end of their regime. Not even the Chinese would stop that.

liam09: I seem to remember a couple wars where there were fronts in africa, europe, asia, and the soviet union (generally speaking). And we managed to still win those wars (against several large enemies). Oh, the world wars.

liam, you are forgetting the preparation and the actual size of our military at that time. It took years to accomplish the result (refitting our industries) and conscripting tens of millions of citizens. Thankfully the UK hung on by a thread, and the Germans underestimated the size and weather of the Soviet Union.

tfhr: You do realize that the ROK Army is larger than ours and that’s before they call up the reserves…… blast, I’m beginning to think you don’t put much thought into the comments you make here.

tfhr, maybe you don’t put much thought into your comments since if you look at the size of the reserve component of the North Koreans, it is twice the size of the ROK. And as for ROK having a larger Army, you are not considering our Marine Corps as any complement of land based operations. … my point in particular when making my original comment was our ability to defend South Korea is diminished at this point since many of our resources are committed elsewhere.

Scott: There are three really big problems w Blasts’ claim about not enough forces:
1) Call me crazy, but Afghanistan is not gonna tie up the US Navy too much. They’re present, but sending destroyers and cruisers to Kabul….ain’t gonna happen.
2) The US Air Force is present in Iraq and Afghanistan, but not overtasked at all
3) somehow-SOMEHOW, the United States managed to fight the largest naval war in the history of man in the Pacific, Atlantic, and Mediterranean all at the same time. And while doing that, there were expeditionary forces of millions of soldiers in Italy, France, North Africa, and all over the Pacific. Any ONE of those expeditionary forces was 3-10x the size of the total US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan

Well, Scott, you keep changing the subject. First you don’t raise Afghanistan, and now you do. The US Navy will be essential to any issues with Korea, but of course much of our Navy has been tasked in the middle east (remember Iraq). On your #2, I don’t know if the Air Force is over tasked or not, and just saying they aren’t doesn’t make it so either. On your #3, that is laughable to compare the WWII to this, the type of mobilization of resources, both human and equipment took a long time.

You just fail to see beyond the colossal strategic mess up when we took on Iraq while not having finished the job in Afghanistan (nor killed off Osama & Co.) Our present options with regard to North Korea have been very limited by the present condition of our forces and to not recognize that is ignoring the truth.

That’s pretty good Blast. First you say the Navy is busy fighting in Iraq, and then you tell me that saying it’s so doesn’t make it so. Please. It took 5 carrier battlegroups to invade Iraq six years ago. I’ll bet there’s no more than 1 in the Gulf right now. If you can find evidence that the Navy and Air Force are stretched thin today, May 2009, because of Iraq then you’re point will be defended. Until then, you’ve got no evidence to show that being in Iraq and Afghanistan (where Al Queda was largely driven out of in late 2001/early 2002), then I’ll be impressed. Till then…you’re point remains unproven. Worse yet, to compare a global (ie WORLD) war on terror to a world war is not a leap at all. You can point to industrial buildup, but if the Air Force and Navy are not overtasked (which you have yet to prove) then there’s no reason for a massive industrial buildup. There are plenty of tanks-tens of thousands of tanks. Now, the US military consists of several MILLION people. barely 1/3 of 1% are in Iraq and Afghanistan.

You also say Bush didn’t finish the job in Afghanistan. Really? What’s it gonna look like when the job’s done? Al Queda’s large forces left in December 2001-March 2002. Do we need millions of Americans to go there to hunt down forces that are in a completely different country (Pakistan)? How’s that work: send a million American soldiers to Afghanistan to fight an enemy that’s largely not in Afghanistan, but is in Pakistan. Makes as much sense as sending cruisers and destroyers to Afghanistan.

@blast:

blast,

The point is that the ROK does not need us for raw numbers – they have plenty of personnel. They don’t have an air force or navy on par with ours and those forces are available if need be.

More importantly, this is another in a long string of exercises in which the DPRK threatens in order to get monetary concessions. The country is a disaster and it’s Dear Leader needs the cash concessions to maintain his own standard of living, to placate his supporters, and keep his opponents in waiting at bay. Besides handouts and his arms trade the only source of income for North Korea is its busy counterfeit and illegal drug export businesses. It’s all about preserving the status quo for the hereditary dictatorship. As others have pointed out here for you to read and understand, Kim does not want to go to war as it will ruin his endless party.

The answer isn’t going to be had by shifting a few brigades in from Iraq or Afghanistan. Again, I refer you to the ongoing shift of American ground forces off of the peninsula and the handover of total control to the ROKs. The Chinese have to rein in their boy or suffer the consequences by aggravating Japan enough to the point where they begin to build their military up to counter Kims conventional and unconventional threats.

Stop counting beans and try to understand what is going on with North Korea but you’re going to have to push those BDS blinders out of the way to have any chance at rendering an objective analysis.

Most everyone gets it here that this is NK posturing for blackmail cash. And included in that posturing is this so called threat about inspecting ships.

After the 2006 bomb test, Bush’s admin pushed thru UNSC Resolution 1718 with sanctions and the monitoring of any WMD material headed to NK. Thing is, we’ve never done it. There’s difficulties involved in actually enforcing yet another UN paper tiger resolution because of a “cooperation clause” to enable these inspections at sea.

Although SCR 1718 contains no language on interdictions, it does contain a paragraph on inspections. It was obviously very difficult for the permanent members to reach agreement on the wording of the paragraph on inspections; the draft originally proposed by the US and Japan was amended twice before a consensus was reached on the final text which reads as follows:

(f) in order to ensure compliance with the requirements of this paragraph, and thereby preventing illicit trafficking in nuclear, chemical or biological weapons, their means of delivery and related materials, all Member States are called upon to take, in accordance with their national authorities and legislation, and consistent with international law, cooperative action including thorough inspection of cargo to and from the DPRK, as necessary;

Interdiction or inspection?

There are several significant points about the paragraph on inspections.

First, it calls for cooperative action. It is likely that the US will want to use the Proliferation Security Initiative (PSI) as the major mechanism for the cooperative action called for in the resolution, as the PSI contains principles on the interdiction, boarding and search of ships. However, given that China and South Korea are not members of PSI, negotiations will be required to convince them to cooperate with the PSI or not oppose cooperative action among other states through the PSI.

Second, the language used in this paragraph makes it “non-mandatory.” In the paragraph on inspections, the language used is “Member States are called upon” whereas in the other operative paragraphs in SCR 1718, the language used is “Member States shall.” Therefore, this paragraph was intended to give Member States some leeway as to whether and how they will take cooperative action with respect to inspections. Therefore, negotiations will be required between the US and other major stakeholders such as China and North Korea.

Third, the paragraph makes it clear that any cooperative action must be consistent with international law. SCR 1718 did not intend to change the existing rules of international law governing the boarding of ships in international waters. Therefore, the principle that ships in international waters cannot be boarded without the consent of the flag state remains unchanged.

Fourth, the cooperative action is limited to preventing trafficking in WMD. It does not cover two other categories of items that are included in the sanctions – conventional weapons and luxury goods. Although SCR 1718 is silent on the interdiction of ships, interdictions can take place under the PSI by cooperating states. Interdictions under the PSI must also be consistent with international law. Most inspections under the PSI will take place when ships are in ports.

Considering it’s almost an impossible Resolution to enforce under the language, it’s not been used, nor is likely to be used in the future. But the stubby King likes to throw it out there to rile up the history deficient press, and add panic to the NK threat fire.

*************************

BTW, blast… I do love how you consider turning Afghanistan over to NATO and the int’l community’s control as “not finishing the job.” Can I assume we will have your cooperative nod of approval in the future if we bypass this worthless military body?

@blast #1:

The next time we get into one of those “relitigating of the invasion of Iraq” conversations, think about this cluster and how spread out we are.

@blast #26:

You just fail to see beyond the colossal strategic mess up when we took on Iraq while not having finished the job in Afghanistan (nor killed off Osama & Co.)

North Korea is a prime example of why we should act before a (wmd) threat becomes imminent. And we did that with Saddam’s Iraq- one of the 3 labeled “Axis of Evil”. One down, two more to go. If NK had been the threat removed from the world stage in 2001-2008, what would Saddam’s Iraq look like today? A non-threat? Or would some be criticizing Bush for not doing anything about the Iraq threat today and how our military is bogged down in NK so we can’t deal with Saddam now?

Actually, my own belief is that the Kim family regime is doing this becaue they are weak, and that a succession is brewing. Basically, the youngest son is set to assume the mantle of leadership, but hasn’t been groomed for it yet. Kim’s brother in law will serve as a regent until Kim Jong Un is ready to lead. My own personal belief is the KJI is drooling all over himself, and there is a succession struggle between various factions underway. This incident is designed to show North Korean strength, and western (US) weakness.

From the standpoint of an invasion by the North….it’s possible, but not likely. While the bulk of the armed forces are within a day’s march of the front, they are poorly equipped, poorly trained, and poorly led. The armed forces and security forces are there to ensure the Kim and the elites stay in power. The troops have not been fed that well, and are more concerned with looting and feeding themselves. The South Korean forces are well trained and well led, and know how to fight.

As the NK’s don’t have much in the way of logistical support, they likely can’t sustain an advance for more than a few days; they will have to forage. The wild card is if they start lobbing artillery, chemical, and nuclear weapons into Seoul. If the US umbrella is lacking, the various countries will defend themselves as they see fit. No one really wants any conflict; it would send the north Asian economies into a tail spin. The good news: a number of choices are available. The bad news: each one is worse than the next.