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ThomNJ
15 years ago
Yeah, getting waterboarded numerous times was SOOOOO much worse than what poor Daniel Pearl got. How outrageously idiotic is the political spin on this topic by all politicians wishing to “score” points with the public – the majority of them seem to not care a whit what we think and only how they can position themselves for the next election. Truly disgusting. And truly disgusting are so many of our countrymen who seem to be completely dead from the neck up.
What I find interesting in the released memos is a sense of serious deliberation and stringency on what was and was not allowed to be done. Lawyers consulted…and it’s because the Geneva Convention was taken seriously AND respected by the Administration that non-uniformed terrorists were not given the same status as uniformed soldiers of an enemy state that’s signed onto the Geneva Convention. To fail to make the distinction only endangers innocent civilians who may be used as human shields to hide amongst.
I think releasing the memos only makes the Bush Administration look good.
Now, release the ones that demonstrates how the limited use of harsh interrogation methods led to actionable intelligence.
Hard Right
15 years ago
Word, if they released such memos it would undermine their claim
that the “bushies” were evil for using such techniques and their justification for not using those methods.
You might as well ask them to admit they were wrong…about anything.
Missy
15 years ago
So much for a leader. Robert Gibbs had quite the time trying to explain the abrupt change from Obama not being interested in prosecuting as of the Sunday talk shows to the door is open, no one is above the law today. MoveOn has their petitions going, Feinstein, Leahy and Feingold are whining. But, it’s the responsibility of Eric Holder to decide, not Obama. Why even have a president?
I was reading through comments on Marc Theissen’s piece today, what a shame that after 911 and all we’ve been through we still have people that are so locked into opposition to all and anything Bush that they see no problem in putting this country at risk for another attack.
@Wordsmith: I don’t agree that the release of the memos was a good idea even if it does vindicate Bush policy. Remember all the Dems who said Bush had to “listen to the generals?” Well, apparently Obama doesn’t have to listen to the CIA Directors who lined up in opposition to his release of the memos.
“Senior Bush figures could be prosecuted for torture, says Obama
President says use of waterboarding showed US had ‘lost moral bearings’ as Dick Cheney says CIA memos showed torture delivered ‘good’ intelligence”
I’m posting on that ASAP.
john lorenz
15 years ago
So now they want to investigate the attorneys, working at the President’s request, who reviewed then existing law to determine if these enhanced interrogation techniques were proper expressions of a President’s war powers. The problem began when we let these “patriots” define the terms in the absence of anything, since they were “supposedly” secret said by the Bush Administration. It’s amazing that someone can be waterboarded 183 times and show no apparent impact. I bet SKM can raise his arms over his head. John McCain who was tortured, can’t. Go figure. Well it’s all on Comrade O now.
Khalid was captured AFTER the Bush administration captured the leader of the cell and the members of the cell said it had already been cancelled. This comes straight from a Bush press briefing, so assuming that the administration wasn’t lying, these are the facts. So how could his “enhanced” interrogation have led to stopping an attack which had already been called off before the interrogation? Answer: It couldn’t! So yeah, you’re probably right – this is more than likely what Cheney was talking about – incorrectly. If this is the best that they can come up with for a justification, then it just points out how wrong we were to stain our reputation and moral standing to get obsolete “information”.
So, in the end, neither you, nor Cheney nor unearthed documents nor Bush nor anyone in his administration have shown that even one life was saved, let alone the “thousands” you fancifully imagine. I think you’re right, though – that probably will be his legacy.
How does “believed to be” canceled somehow translated into *was* canceled, jarman? Are you suggesting that just because the cell leader was arrested, they were impotent to complete the mission?
And are you suggesting that KSM’s only value was a single plot?
@jarman: From your link: “Al-Qaida’s plot to bomb the Library Tower was not worth torturing anyone over.”
Tell that to the people who work there. What would have happened if Bush had not succeeded in foiling that plot? The lefties would have gone even more berserk.
The facts are indisputable. Bush foiled plots with information gathered from waterboarding JUST THREE OF THESE MONSTERS.
This false piety about “torture” is torture to me.
I don’t agree that the release of the memos was a good idea even if it does vindicate Bush policy.
Mike, I didn’t say the release of the memos was “a good idea”; I think in my previous thread or elsewhere in the blogosphere, I questioned what purpose the release serves, and whether it makes America safer, or cause us harm.
What I said:
I think releasing the memos only makes the Bush Administration look good.
To clarify: Browsing through the released memos, more than anything, I think it demonstrates to the world that lawyers were consulted, deliberations were made with gravity, and that nothing the Administration endorsed amounted to the hysteria and hyperventilation the “torture” critics have believed about what took place.
Hattie Mae
15 years ago
I wish it wasn’t so, but I just knew Obama would change his tack on this. You know, you have to bow down not only to show respect but to lose it too, like to kiss @$$. I think this was one of his carrots on his World Wide Apology Tour, a bargaining chip in his bid for being the High Muckah Muckah of the World . Muslim Messiah that he is fancied to be by some.
Perhaps you can get that unnamed FBI official to straighten the CIA out on a few things.
CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles
CNSNews.com) – The Central Intelligence Agency told CNSNews.com today that it stands by the assertion made in a May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that the use of “enhanced techniques” of interrogation on al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM) — including the use of waterboarding — caused KSM to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles.
The May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that details what happened in this regard was written by then-Principal Deputy Attorney General Steven G. Bradbury to John A. Rizzo, the senior deputy general counsel for the CIA.
“You have informed us that the interrogation of KSM—once enhanced techniques were employed—led to the discovery of a KSM plot, the ‘Second Wave,’ ‘to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into’ a building in Los Angeles,” says the memo.
“You have informed us that information obtained from KSM also led to the capture of Riduan bin Isomuddin, better known as Hambali, and the discover of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member Jemaah Islamiyah cell tasked with executing the ‘Second Wave,’” reads the memo. “More specifically, we understand that KSM admitted that he had [redaction] large sum of money to an al Qaeda associate [redaction] … Khan subsequently identified the associate (Zubair), who was then captured. Zubair, in turn, provided information that led to the arrest of Hambali. The information acquired from these captures allowed CIA interrogators to pose more specific questions to KSM, which led the CIA to Hambali’s brother, al Hadi. Using information obtained from multiple sources, al-Hadi was captured, and he subsequently identified the Garuba cell. With the aid of this additional information, interrogations of Hambali confirmed much of what was learned from KSM.”
A CIA spokesman confirmed to CNSNews.com today that the CIA stands by the factual assertions made here.
In the memo itself, the Justice Department’s Bradbury told the CIA’s Rossi: “Your office has informed us that the CIA believes that ‘the intelligence acquired from these interrogations has been a key reason why al Qa’ida has failed to launch a spectacular attack in the West since 11 September 2001.”
WASHINGTON – President Obama’s national intelligence director told colleagues in a private memo last week that the harsh interrogation techniques banned by the White House did produce significant information that helped the nation in its struggle with terrorists.
“High value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the al Qa’ida organization that was attacking this country,” Adm. Dennis C. Blair, the intelligence director, wrote in a memo to his staff last Thursday.
Yeah, getting waterboarded numerous times was SOOOOO much worse than what poor Daniel Pearl got. How outrageously idiotic is the political spin on this topic by all politicians wishing to “score” points with the public – the majority of them seem to not care a whit what we think and only how they can position themselves for the next election. Truly disgusting. And truly disgusting are so many of our countrymen who seem to be completely dead from the neck up.
What I find interesting in the released memos is a sense of serious deliberation and stringency on what was and was not allowed to be done. Lawyers consulted…and it’s because the Geneva Convention was taken seriously AND respected by the Administration that non-uniformed terrorists were not given the same status as uniformed soldiers of an enemy state that’s signed onto the Geneva Convention. To fail to make the distinction only endangers innocent civilians who may be used as human shields to hide amongst.
I think releasing the memos only makes the Bush Administration look good.
Now, release the ones that demonstrates how the limited use of harsh interrogation methods led to actionable intelligence.
Word, if they released such memos it would undermine their claim
that the “bushies” were evil for using such techniques and their justification for not using those methods.
You might as well ask them to admit they were wrong…about anything.
So much for a leader. Robert Gibbs had quite the time trying to explain the abrupt change from Obama not being interested in prosecuting as of the Sunday talk shows to the door is open, no one is above the law today. MoveOn has their petitions going, Feinstein, Leahy and Feingold are whining. But, it’s the responsibility of Eric Holder to decide, not Obama. Why even have a president?
I was reading through comments on Marc Theissen’s piece today, what a shame that after 911 and all we’ve been through we still have people that are so locked into opposition to all and anything Bush that they see no problem in putting this country at risk for another attack.
@Wordsmith: I don’t agree that the release of the memos was a good idea even if it does vindicate Bush policy. Remember all the Dems who said Bush had to “listen to the generals?” Well, apparently Obama doesn’t have to listen to the CIA Directors who lined up in opposition to his release of the memos.
And later today we learned:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/21/cheney-obama-cia-torture-memos
“Senior Bush figures could be prosecuted for torture, says Obama
President says use of waterboarding showed US had ‘lost moral bearings’ as Dick Cheney says CIA memos showed torture delivered ‘good’ intelligence”
I’m posting on that ASAP.
So now they want to investigate the attorneys, working at the President’s request, who reviewed then existing law to determine if these enhanced interrogation techniques were proper expressions of a President’s war powers. The problem began when we let these “patriots” define the terms in the absence of anything, since they were “supposedly” secret said by the Bush Administration. It’s amazing that someone can be waterboarded 183 times and show no apparent impact. I bet SKM can raise his arms over his head. John McCain who was tortured, can’t. Go figure. Well it’s all on Comrade O now.
As you can read here:
http://www.slate.com/id/2216601/?from=rss
Khalid was captured AFTER the Bush administration captured the leader of the cell and the members of the cell said it had already been cancelled. This comes straight from a Bush press briefing, so assuming that the administration wasn’t lying, these are the facts. So how could his “enhanced” interrogation have led to stopping an attack which had already been called off before the interrogation? Answer: It couldn’t! So yeah, you’re probably right – this is more than likely what Cheney was talking about – incorrectly. If this is the best that they can come up with for a justification, then it just points out how wrong we were to stain our reputation and moral standing to get obsolete “information”.
So, in the end, neither you, nor Cheney nor unearthed documents nor Bush nor anyone in his administration have shown that even one life was saved, let alone the “thousands” you fancifully imagine. I think you’re right, though – that probably will be his legacy.
How does “believed to be” canceled somehow translated into *was* canceled, jarman? Are you suggesting that just because the cell leader was arrested, they were impotent to complete the mission?
And are you suggesting that KSM’s only value was a single plot?
@jarman: From your link: “Al-Qaida’s plot to bomb the Library Tower was not worth torturing anyone over.”
Tell that to the people who work there. What would have happened if Bush had not succeeded in foiling that plot? The lefties would have gone even more berserk.
The facts are indisputable. Bush foiled plots with information gathered from waterboarding JUST THREE OF THESE MONSTERS.
This false piety about “torture” is torture to me.
@Mike’s America #5:
Mike, I didn’t say the release of the memos was “a good idea”; I think in my previous thread or elsewhere in the blogosphere, I questioned what purpose the release serves, and whether it makes America safer, or cause us harm.
What I said:
To clarify: Browsing through the released memos, more than anything, I think it demonstrates to the world that lawyers were consulted, deliberations were made with gravity, and that nothing the Administration endorsed amounted to the hysteria and hyperventilation the “torture” critics have believed about what took place.
I wish it wasn’t so, but I just knew Obama would change his tack on this. You know, you have to bow down not only to show respect but to lose it too, like to kiss @$$. I think this was one of his carrots on his World Wide Apology Tour, a bargaining chip in his bid for being the High Muckah Muckah of the World . Muslim Messiah that he is fancied to be by some.
@jarman:
Perhaps you can get that unnamed FBI official to straighten the CIA out on a few things.
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=46949
WASHINGTON – President Obama’s national intelligence director told colleagues in a private memo last week that the harsh interrogation techniques banned by the White House did produce significant information that helped the nation in its struggle with terrorists.
“High value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the al Qa’ida organization that was attacking this country,” Adm. Dennis C. Blair, the intelligence director, wrote in a memo to his staff last Thursday.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us/politics/22blair.html?_r=1&hp