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Anyway, I sometimes feel like the ghost at the feast around here, so I would like to say that I’m glad you guys are channeling your discontent in a constructive way; I hope organized dissent has a respected place in American discourse, and that politicians realize that they are held to a higher authority than their wallets – that of the people. Have a great time.
@trizzlor: I don’t think anyone believes Obama will stop at just allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire. Massive increases will be necessary. And if that graph you supply teaches us one lesson it is that in order to spur economic growth we need to cut taxes, not raise them.
Maybe I’m just dense (wouldn’t be the first time), but I’m not sure I understand the point of the graph. Are you suggesting that the “wealthy” shouldn’t complain about paying more taxes under Obama, since they’re already paying a far lower percent of their income than under Nixon or Reagan? By the same reasoning you shouldn’t be upset at being robbed if the robber ends up getting less than in other times that you’ve been robbed?
This type of relativistic arguing misses the point. Tax policy ought to strive for equitable treatment, not class warfare or other distortions. The wealthy already pay a higher percent of earned income in taxes than other taxpayers, so what represents a more “fair share” for the wealthy? How about the “almost wealthy? Is it “fair” that some wage earners receive more tax credits than the amount of tax that they pay? How is it “fair” to refund more money than taxes paid?
Let’s be honest; our tax code is already a wealth redistribution scheme, and Obama is going to increase taking from wealthier taxpayers and use it to buy voters and Democratic Party loyalty, while not sufficiently improving the economic prospects of lower-income individuals. It’s a Faustian Bargain – a deal with the devil.
@Mike’s America,
Am I looking at a different graph than you are? How does this graph of tax rates by year/president show that “in order to spur economic growth we need to cut taxes, not raise them?” I don’t disagree with your statement, but I don’t see what you see.
Please edjumicate me.
Jeff V
Paula R. Robinson, M.D.
15 years ago
I was confused because it seemed evident to me that it could not be true, simultaneously, that the top 10% of taxpayers paid 16% of the tax burden, and that the top 1% of taxpayers paid 19% of the tax burden. However when I checked the source document, an Excel file, I discovered that the data apparently refer to effective income tax rates, not percent of tax revenues attrubutable to the group (which is what the phrase “% of total taxes paid” appears to suggest). Just pointing out this chart could be improved by labeling the y axis “effective income tax rate” or “% of total income paid as taxes”, if that is indeed what you are graphing here. Thanks.
bill-tb
15 years ago
HAS OUT OF CONTROL GOVERNMENT SPENDING BECOME TOO TAXING?
The mainstream media wouldn’t do it. So we are trying to get your important messages to the American people. This post is a suggested read at, http://aresay.blogspot.com/ 4
@Paula R. Robinson, M.D.: Thanks Paul. I spent so much time looking at charts and graphs that the numbers became a blur. Just like the tax code. Fixed it.
@ruaqtpi2: If you were to overlay a chart showing spurts of economic activity I think you would find it corresponds to when taxes were cut. Sorry I didn’t make that more clear. I blame number fatigue again.
DaNang67
15 years ago
@trizzlor: The top marginal rate chart you linked may be deceptive, in that the tax code changes under Reagan closed some loopholes that helped many wealthy people pay no taxes at all. It was the increased contribution from the high end of the tax base that increased revenues to the government as a result of the tax cuts.
Looking back at the Nixon period with the confiscatory top marginal rates, it was widely publicized then that the very rich often payed little or nothing while the tax burden weighed more heavily on the middle classes.
ruaqtpi2
15 years ago
DaNang67,
Very good! The tax code is so complex (partly intentional, in my opinion.) The “wealthy,” which includes a very sizeable chunk of our Congressional official, can afford to employ the services of lawyers and accountants who specialize in tax sheltering. Obama certainly knows that the “rich” shelter a large portion of their income, but “taxing the rich” and “makking the rich pay their fair share” is good populist rhetoric that sounds good at first blush. Too many people (especially liberals, who tend to depend on feelings and emotions more than intellect. They don’t think any deeper than that, which is why the rhetoric is so successful. And since the mainstream media is all about sound bytes that satisfy the emotional need rather than the intellect, we tend to govern by how something sounds or feels rather than a critical examination of how truly equitable any particular law or regulation is or what its actual results are. Interestingly, Yahoo! just announced that Obama wants to simplify the tax code. My expectation is that he’ll have ACORN, Harry Reid, and Nancy (the Hairy) Pelosi.
The end result, as we all know, is that the wealthy will still pay an inordinate amount of taxes per person, the middle class will expand to pay the bulk of the remainder, and the 50 to 60 percent of low income or no income voters will become more and more dependent on government subsidies, leading to a nearly undefeatable majority of Democrats who will be told every four years that unless they vote for the Democratic presidential candidate, they will probably lose most (if not all) of their benefits.
I wonder what would happen to unemployment if government were to cut back on entitlements and other benefits for the unemployed. In Texas’ current flights of fancy concerning secession from the US, this is a very popular proposal (at least to the secessionists.)
Jeff V
P.S. The financial team of Owen and Payne (www.owenandpayne.com) has developed aa simplified tax form, Form 438000: http://www.owenandpayne.com/form.php
Another short note to say that your market looks tired after that big relief rally.
Could be wrong, but methinks y’all be having some downmove time now.
And I worry that Obama will send his lapdog police and finally troops to quash your tea party demonstrations. He’ll find some lies to spin that the teapartiers are a threat to homeland security and use force.
He will show his authoritarian “true colors” as the protests get bigger and bigger—this guy is a marxist dictator clad in liberal clothing.
I only wish Lawrence could help out those poor persecuted folks in Tibet. http://www.freetibet.org/ Still I guess you’re kept in the dark about that and have enough propaganda to keep toeing the Commie party line. Anyway Tibet isn’t a US subject and I know you are more concerned with US democracy than your own backyard;)
As for the markets – the dow-jones last time I looked was back over 8000 which is good. Or are hoping for the market to fall?
And I worry that Obama will send his lapdog police and finally troops to quash your tea party demonstrations. He’ll find some lies to spin that the teapartiers are a threat to homeland security and use force.
He will show his authoritarian “true colors” as the protests get bigger and bigger—this guy is a marxist dictator clad in liberal clothing
Oooohhh, looks Like Gaffa of Arabia has nothing to counter my helpful suggestions about the evil overlord Obama, so we have to bring up Tiananmen square.
Perhaps I need to bring up Robin Hood and the Evil Prince John also? And how the evil sheriff of Sherwood forest oppressed the innocent british peasants??? Tortured them if they hunted deer in the forest??
And let’s remember that tea parties commemorate rebelling against the EVIL british empire???
Where the sun never sets on the british empire because god doesn’t trust an englishman in the dark???
Remember how the americans shot down and slaughtered the EVIL british soldiers oppressing them??
Did u miss that one in your grade school lessons??
Or were your lessons all about Lawrence of Arabia??? Britain’s expert Counter-terrorist, according to you?
Compared to the dictators of China – Obama is as pure as a founder father;)
I don’t know where you got your history from – but Robin Hood is a myth. Perhaps you have been watching to many Kevin Costner fims? Luckily under Magna Carta the authority of King John was pushed back whilst is a milestone along the pathway to true democracy and was inspirational to the founding fathers I believe.
Rebelling against the Evil British empire – yes good for the americans. Let’s hope the people of Tibet rise against their cruel commies overlords.
The sun never set because the British empire stretched around the world. The biggest empire ever seen. And those countries – on the whole – under the empire haven’t done too badly since compared to a lot of other ex-colonial countries. Beside I thought you didn’t believe in God.
Remember how the americans shot down and slaughtered the EVIL british soldiers oppressing them??
I wasn’t there so I don’t remember. So despite being in a war with the US twice – the UK is the US closest ally unlike China – who’s more useful & powerful but hardly a friend or a country to be trusted.
No – we didn’t learn all about Lawrence – which is a shame in that as I might have known that he wasn’t a counter-terrorist. lol. Still would of been interesting to learn about China – which we didn’t at school but I read a few books recently about how the Mongolians conquered and ruled China. Seems like it’s only recently China has managed not to be pushed around by outsiders.
The protesters did have a permit to protest in front of the Treasury building yesterday, but, Secret Service stopped it. No riots though, they weren’t the crazies HS wants people to believe, they peacefully moved away.
My favorite protest sign:
“Please Don’t Tell Obama What Comes After A Trillion.”
@sigmundringeck: Dow moving lower this morning. Thanks for the heads up.
@GaffaUK: Tibet has NOTHING to do with the issue at hand here. But at the risk of confusing you further I would just cite that the Chinese have been urging Obama to be less radical.
So, when it comes to who is a bigger commie? the Chinese or Obama, it’s pretty clear Obama is.
Apparently Sigmund puts a burr in your underwear. I’m pretty sure I know the reason why.
@GaffaUK: Are you suggesting you would like me to lead by example and then enforce the rule with zeal?
I can you know!
How about we start now? Got anything substantive, interesting or original to say about the Tea Parties? I’ll be posting a wrap up on the day in a few minutes in case you want to wait to sidetrack things.
Maybe a bit too early, cause the rally is getting tired in asia, and people are selling out of the bank stocks here. In the US, it may take a bit longer, but personally I am selling out of my long trading positions. The way I see it, now is just top formation of the rally, and there’s not much upside. We’ve had a good run in the last couple months, like Citigroup went from a buck to $4+, now usually a trader would sell in front of the results, as you can see from that big dip it had some days ago. Could still go up somemore, but more likely downside risk of a pullback would be too much for a trading position now.
On Gaffa of Arabia, he’s very cute and obviously does his best to irritate all here. Look at his comments in your T-shirt contest, saying he wonders how the winners will feel if gay lesbians vote for them or something like that. This sort of comment is obviously designed to upset people, and it’s not even connected to politics.
I guess you can’t defend your dear leader Obama, so you want to criticise china.
Fine, you are welcome to do so, but floppingaces is abt discussing america, not china or even jolly old metrosexual england. As a guest here, it is simple politeness to stay on topic, but obviously that is beyond you.
You’ll note that we chinese are very worried that Obama is becoming more communist than us last time, and thus may affect our investments/loans in the US. In china we are moving forwards, while in america, under dear leader Obama you are moving backwards into the darkness of dictatorship and communism.
Sorry to say this, but it is true. As time goes on, we’ll see Obama get worse and worse, until americans will say, I want to leave here and live in china.
The only way to save america(and protect our money that we loaned to america) is to kick this marxist jackass Obama out of office.
——————————————————
Now, I know you are secretely gay and lust to bendover for Obama, just like you want to RIDE the hot, vibrating motorbike of your idol, Lawrence of Arabia(the great counter-terrorist expert), so try not to get your panties in a twist when we peaceful chinese point out what a jackass Obama is.
Perhaps you have not been “Lawrenced” recently??? That’s why you are so easily upset???
@sigmundringeck: Did you know Gaffuk is in Australia? Not all that far from where you are. You two should get together sometime. If you do, make sure to get a video tape because I’d love to see the smackdown beating you give him….
(oh, and I’m sure I meant that smackdown in the verbal sense…. I don’t want to get tagged by the Obama Administration as a violent radical!)
🙂
mooseburger
15 years ago
Mike Said: “So, when it comes to who is a bigger commie? the Chinese or Obama, it’s pretty clear Obama is.”
And: “ut at the risk of confusing you further I would just cite that the Chinese have been urging Obama to be less radical.”
Really Mike, the fact that opposing opinions, blogs and Tea Party’s are flourishing should be an indication to you that the Constitution still has some teeth left.
That wouldn’t be allowed in China.
China is simply worried about their investment, we put the cost of the Iraq was on our credit card, the Chinese credit card, all while putting in place the Bush Tax cuts. Dick Cheney said deficits don’t matter back then. The trend of China financing our debt didn’t start with Obama.
Not to even mention the economic near meltdown. The Chinese are in for a penny, and in for a pound at this point.
China is our economic competitor, not to mention they are still a repressive, Communist country with little regard for freedom and liberty. Do you really think they have our best interest at heart? They only have a concern for their investment/debt owed, and for the main market for their goods. They have had their foot on our economic throats, and they like it like that.
Why would you give more credibility to the Chinese worrying about Obama being “radical” than you would to our country’s President? Sounds like your siding up with the Chinese over the good old USA….
Iv’e posted this response twice. Mike, You deleted both. You have a good forum with some good people here, I take it you will continue to delete my postings Mike? I said before that it’s hard to reason with unreasonable people, are you afraid of the give and take from Ole Mooseburger, or are you just censoring posts from those who disagree with you.
Last weekend the founder of the Stratfor private intelligence agency, George Friedman, told Business Spectator (KGB Interrogation, March 27) that, like Japan, China doesn’t have a market-driven financial economy. Decisions are made on social and political bases and therefore the deployment of money has been inefficient and generated non-performing loan problems.
@mooseburger said: “Sounds like your siding up with the Chinese over the good old USA….”
Nope! Siding with the Chinese over Obama. There is a difference. And please note that the Chinese learned their lessons about free enterprise. Yet Obama seems determined to repeat the mistakes that led to so much turmoil and death in China in the mid 20th Century.
Sorry to say this, but I and many of us feel your dumbass president Obama is moving the US closer and closer towards a certain type of communism, and we are kinda worried about the money loaned you because, on this path, you are destroying your currency and your economy(and thus our investment–our loan to you).
China is moving away from communism, but america is moving towards communism under Obama, isn’t it funny???
Obama is a disgrace to america and an embarrassment to the free world.
——————————————
Somebody mentioned that borrowing money from us started under GWB.
When GWB was around did you see us complain about our loan to you??? Not a squeak cause we were comfortable with the US and GWB then. But now with Obama, many of our officials literally want to slap his face or wring his neck to wake up his marxist fantasies.
The problem is not the loan, the problem is Obama.
——————————-
Yes mike is right, the central command economy in the 60s and even 70s was a disaster that is now like some bad dream that we couldn’t get out of. That’s why so many chinese left the mainland and settled in SEAsia, because things were so bad there.
Only in the early 80s, when we adopted modified capitalist principles based on the singapore model did china start to come up to where it is today.
We still have a long way to go, but at least no chinese is now dumb enough to want to return to those marxist/communist days, that dear leader Obama seems to be bringing america towards. It may take him a hundred steps to get there, but he has already taken the first ten steps.
Americans should be aware.
Freedom and a good economy is lost easily, gained back only with difficulty.
Don’t think that it will never happen to you, because it is happening right now.
Maybe you won’t become like china last time, but you certainly can become like europe at its worst socialist mode.
@sigmundringeck worth repeating: “When GWB was around did you see us complain about our loan to you??? Not a squeak cause we were comfortable with the US and GWB then.
The problem is not the loan, the problem is Obama.”
Maybe a bit too early, cause the rally is getting tired in asia, and people are selling out of the bank stocks here.
Tangent from Tea Day Protest
Look at his comments in your T-shirt contest, saying he wonders how the winners will feel if gay lesbians vote for them or something like that. This sort of comment is obviously designed to upset people, and it’s not even connected to politics..
Tangent from Tea Day Protest
In china we are moving forwards, while in america, under dear leader Obama you are moving backwards into the darkness of dictatorship and communism…
Tangent from Tea Day Protest
Now, I know you are secretely gay and lust to bendover for Obama, just like you want to RIDE the hot, vibrating motorbike of your idol, Lawrence of Arabia(the great counter-terrorist expert), so try not to get your panties in a twist when we peaceful chinese point out what a jackass Obama is….
Tangent from Tea Day Protest
Did you know Gaffuk is in Australia? Not all that far from where you are. You two should get together sometime. If you do, make sure to get a video tape because I’d love to see the smackdown beating you give him……..
Tangent from Tea Day Protest
So if you me to stay on topic then surely others should do so as well – EVEN if they are replying to my original tangents. (Now that I’ve been told) Of course my tangents all represent a small minority of original tangents – including yours – on other threads. So happy to point those out – but that’s only going to get us all annoyed. All I’m asking if that the same ‘guidelines’ are applied to all – irrespective if the person who posts a message is perceived rightwinger or leftwinger.
Personally – what’s wrong with tangents – it’s debate. Let’s keep ’em! Day after Day Obama bashing gets as dull as constant Bush bashing – so having tangents with history, religion and politics in other countries – is interesting.
Anyway – let me know (hopefully without a jibe) your thoughts on this and if it’s fair for all – then I won’t ignore it.
Unfortunately it seems Comrade Sig doesn’t get democracy. In less 4 years time the voters of the US will be able to vote Obama out if they so wish. Unfortunately China is stuck with the same evil regime they have for decades for now. Mao is responsible for the deaths of millions of Chinese and yet a lot of them still worship him.
You’ll note that we chinese are very worried that Obama is becoming more communist than us last time, and thus may affect our investments/loans in the US.
If the americans stopped buying cheap crap from China – there wouldn’t be any Chinese economy left to talk about;)
Oooohhh, the widdle Gaffa sounds so angry!!!
Needs to talk about china in a forum about america.
Perhaps you have not obtained your daily dose of being “LAWRENCED” today???
Didn’t ride on the hot, vibrating motorbike of your counter-terrorist idol Lawrence of Arabia enough???
I’m not angry – just laughing at you losers like you. You shouldn’t tell other not to talk about china in a forum about america when you do that. What a hypocrite! Go on deny it…
I’m interested in your expert knowledge on finance and China. I guess the taunt was too tricky for you too tackle. Although your history is shocking when you deny the contribution the US did in freeing your country. Why don’t you go and join the teabaggers – sounds like you would enjoy that from your fixation.
Here’s another fun graph.
Anyway, I sometimes feel like the ghost at the feast around here, so I would like to say that I’m glad you guys are channeling your discontent in a constructive way; I hope organized dissent has a respected place in American discourse, and that politicians realize that they are held to a higher authority than their wallets – that of the people. Have a great time.
@trizzlor:
Count me as another Moonbat Liberal who echos the same sentiment. Good luck and have a great time!
@trizzlor: I don’t think anyone believes Obama will stop at just allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire. Massive increases will be necessary. And if that graph you supply teaches us one lesson it is that in order to spur economic growth we need to cut taxes, not raise them.
GO America.
This is true democracy in action.
I watch you with my best wishes and a lot of respect.
So who’s worst do you reckon sigmundringeck when it comes to democracy? Obama or Hu Jintao? Reckon Tibet will get democracy anytime soon?
@trizzlor,
Maybe I’m just dense (wouldn’t be the first time), but I’m not sure I understand the point of the graph. Are you suggesting that the “wealthy” shouldn’t complain about paying more taxes under Obama, since they’re already paying a far lower percent of their income than under Nixon or Reagan? By the same reasoning you shouldn’t be upset at being robbed if the robber ends up getting less than in other times that you’ve been robbed?
This type of relativistic arguing misses the point. Tax policy ought to strive for equitable treatment, not class warfare or other distortions. The wealthy already pay a higher percent of earned income in taxes than other taxpayers, so what represents a more “fair share” for the wealthy? How about the “almost wealthy? Is it “fair” that some wage earners receive more tax credits than the amount of tax that they pay? How is it “fair” to refund more money than taxes paid?
Let’s be honest; our tax code is already a wealth redistribution scheme, and Obama is going to increase taking from wealthier taxpayers and use it to buy voters and Democratic Party loyalty, while not sufficiently improving the economic prospects of lower-income individuals. It’s a Faustian Bargain – a deal with the devil.
@Mike’s America,
Am I looking at a different graph than you are? How does this graph of tax rates by year/president show that “in order to spur economic growth we need to cut taxes, not raise them?” I don’t disagree with your statement, but I don’t see what you see.
Please edjumicate me.
Jeff V
I was confused because it seemed evident to me that it could not be true, simultaneously, that the top 10% of taxpayers paid 16% of the tax burden, and that the top 1% of taxpayers paid 19% of the tax burden. However when I checked the source document, an Excel file, I discovered that the data apparently refer to effective income tax rates, not percent of tax revenues attrubutable to the group (which is what the phrase “% of total taxes paid” appears to suggest). Just pointing out this chart could be improved by labeling the y axis “effective income tax rate” or “% of total income paid as taxes”, if that is indeed what you are graphing here. Thanks.
HAS OUT OF CONTROL GOVERNMENT SPENDING BECOME TOO TAXING?
It’s tea party time.
The mainstream media wouldn’t do it. So we are trying to get your important messages to the American people. This post is a suggested read at, http://aresay.blogspot.com/ 4
@Paula R. Robinson, M.D.: Thanks Paul. I spent so much time looking at charts and graphs that the numbers became a blur. Just like the tax code. Fixed it.
@ruaqtpi2: If you were to overlay a chart showing spurts of economic activity I think you would find it corresponds to when taxes were cut. Sorry I didn’t make that more clear. I blame number fatigue again.
@trizzlor: The top marginal rate chart you linked may be deceptive, in that the tax code changes under Reagan closed some loopholes that helped many wealthy people pay no taxes at all. It was the increased contribution from the high end of the tax base that increased revenues to the government as a result of the tax cuts.
Looking back at the Nixon period with the confiscatory top marginal rates, it was widely publicized then that the very rich often payed little or nothing while the tax burden weighed more heavily on the middle classes.
DaNang67,
Very good! The tax code is so complex (partly intentional, in my opinion.) The “wealthy,” which includes a very sizeable chunk of our Congressional official, can afford to employ the services of lawyers and accountants who specialize in tax sheltering. Obama certainly knows that the “rich” shelter a large portion of their income, but “taxing the rich” and “makking the rich pay their fair share” is good populist rhetoric that sounds good at first blush. Too many people (especially liberals, who tend to depend on feelings and emotions more than intellect. They don’t think any deeper than that, which is why the rhetoric is so successful. And since the mainstream media is all about sound bytes that satisfy the emotional need rather than the intellect, we tend to govern by how something sounds or feels rather than a critical examination of how truly equitable any particular law or regulation is or what its actual results are. Interestingly, Yahoo! just announced that Obama wants to simplify the tax code. My expectation is that he’ll have ACORN, Harry Reid, and Nancy (the Hairy) Pelosi.
The end result, as we all know, is that the wealthy will still pay an inordinate amount of taxes per person, the middle class will expand to pay the bulk of the remainder, and the 50 to 60 percent of low income or no income voters will become more and more dependent on government subsidies, leading to a nearly undefeatable majority of Democrats who will be told every four years that unless they vote for the Democratic presidential candidate, they will probably lose most (if not all) of their benefits.
I wonder what would happen to unemployment if government were to cut back on entitlements and other benefits for the unemployed. In Texas’ current flights of fancy concerning secession from the US, this is a very popular proposal (at least to the secessionists.)
Jeff V
P.S. The financial team of Owen and Payne (www.owenandpayne.com) has developed aa simplified tax form, Form 438000: http://www.owenandpayne.com/form.php
Greetings, Gaffa of Arabia
This blog’s abt america, not abt china.
I make helpful suggestions abt the mainland in other blogs.
Please give my regards to your “counter-terrorist idol”, Lawrence of Arabia.
Another short note to say that your market looks tired after that big relief rally.
Could be wrong, but methinks y’all be having some downmove time now.
And I worry that Obama will send his lapdog police and finally troops to quash your tea party demonstrations. He’ll find some lies to spin that the teapartiers are a threat to homeland security and use force.
He will show his authoritarian “true colors” as the protests get bigger and bigger—this guy is a marxist dictator clad in liberal clothing.
@Sigmundringeck
I only wish Lawrence could help out those poor persecuted folks in Tibet. http://www.freetibet.org/ Still I guess you’re kept in the dark about that and have enough propaganda to keep toeing the Commie party line. Anyway Tibet isn’t a US subject and I know you are more concerned with US democracy than your own backyard;)
As for the markets – the dow-jones last time I looked was back over 8000 which is good. Or are hoping for the market to fall?
@Sigmundringeck
I think you are getting confused with Tiananmen Square protests.http://www.alliance.org.hk/english/index.html.
Oh my bad – they used tanks there instead of dogs.
btw – you have to be careful as you’re not supposed to ‘openly insulting other people or distorting the truth to slander people’
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China
Oooohhh, looks Like Gaffa of Arabia has nothing to counter my helpful suggestions about the evil overlord Obama, so we have to bring up Tiananmen square.
Perhaps I need to bring up Robin Hood and the Evil Prince John also? And how the evil sheriff of Sherwood forest oppressed the innocent british peasants??? Tortured them if they hunted deer in the forest??
And let’s remember that tea parties commemorate rebelling against the EVIL british empire???
Where the sun never sets on the british empire because god doesn’t trust an englishman in the dark???
Remember how the americans shot down and slaughtered the EVIL british soldiers oppressing them??
Did u miss that one in your grade school lessons??
Or were your lessons all about Lawrence of Arabia??? Britain’s expert Counter-terrorist, according to you?
@Comrade Sig
Compared to the dictators of China – Obama is as pure as a founder father;)
I don’t know where you got your history from – but Robin Hood is a myth. Perhaps you have been watching to many Kevin Costner fims? Luckily under Magna Carta the authority of King John was pushed back whilst is a milestone along the pathway to true democracy and was inspirational to the founding fathers I believe.
Rebelling against the Evil British empire – yes good for the americans. Let’s hope the people of Tibet rise against their cruel commies overlords.
The sun never set because the British empire stretched around the world. The biggest empire ever seen. And those countries – on the whole – under the empire haven’t done too badly since compared to a lot of other ex-colonial countries. Beside I thought you didn’t believe in God.
I wasn’t there so I don’t remember. So despite being in a war with the US twice – the UK is the US closest ally unlike China – who’s more useful & powerful but hardly a friend or a country to be trusted.
No – we didn’t learn all about Lawrence – which is a shame in that as I might have known that he wasn’t a counter-terrorist. lol. Still would of been interesting to learn about China – which we didn’t at school but I read a few books recently about how the Mongolians conquered and ruled China. Seems like it’s only recently China has managed not to be pushed around by outsiders.
@sigmundringeck:
The protesters did have a permit to protest in front of the Treasury building yesterday, but, Secret Service stopped it. No riots though, they weren’t the crazies HS wants people to believe, they peacefully moved away.
My favorite protest sign:
“Please Don’t Tell Obama What Comes After A Trillion.”
A trillion and one?
@sigmundringeck: Dow moving lower this morning. Thanks for the heads up.
@GaffaUK: Tibet has NOTHING to do with the issue at hand here. But at the risk of confusing you further I would just cite that the Chinese have been urging Obama to be less radical.
So, when it comes to who is a bigger commie? the Chinese or Obama, it’s pretty clear Obama is.
Apparently Sigmund puts a burr in your underwear. I’m pretty sure I know the reason why.
@Mike
Oh please to do tell…lol
@GaffaUK: I’ll keep it to myself and stay on topic. But I do know what it is and Sigmund is right.
@Mike
Bizarre. No worries. Btw what’s the guidelines here regarding tangents?
@GaffaUK: It doesn’t seem to matter what the guidelines are because you simply ignore them and frequently launch off on totally unrelated issues.
I’m just wondering if you always keep on topic….
@GaffaUK: Are you suggesting you would like me to lead by example and then enforce the rule with zeal?
I can you know!
How about we start now? Got anything substantive, interesting or original to say about the Tea Parties? I’ll be posting a wrap up on the day in a few minutes in case you want to wait to sidetrack things.
Maybe a bit too early, cause the rally is getting tired in asia, and people are selling out of the bank stocks here. In the US, it may take a bit longer, but personally I am selling out of my long trading positions. The way I see it, now is just top formation of the rally, and there’s not much upside. We’ve had a good run in the last couple months, like Citigroup went from a buck to $4+, now usually a trader would sell in front of the results, as you can see from that big dip it had some days ago. Could still go up somemore, but more likely downside risk of a pullback would be too much for a trading position now.
On Gaffa of Arabia, he’s very cute and obviously does his best to irritate all here. Look at his comments in your T-shirt contest, saying he wonders how the winners will feel if gay lesbians vote for them or something like that. This sort of comment is obviously designed to upset people, and it’s not even connected to politics.
Gaffa of Arabia
I guess you can’t defend your dear leader Obama, so you want to criticise china.
Fine, you are welcome to do so, but floppingaces is abt discussing america, not china or even jolly old metrosexual england. As a guest here, it is simple politeness to stay on topic, but obviously that is beyond you.
You’ll note that we chinese are very worried that Obama is becoming more communist than us last time, and thus may affect our investments/loans in the US. In china we are moving forwards, while in america, under dear leader Obama you are moving backwards into the darkness of dictatorship and communism.
Sorry to say this, but it is true. As time goes on, we’ll see Obama get worse and worse, until americans will say, I want to leave here and live in china.
The only way to save america(and protect our money that we loaned to america) is to kick this marxist jackass Obama out of office.
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Now, I know you are secretely gay and lust to bendover for Obama, just like you want to RIDE the hot, vibrating motorbike of your idol, Lawrence of Arabia(the great counter-terrorist expert), so try not to get your panties in a twist when we peaceful chinese point out what a jackass Obama is.
Perhaps you have not been “Lawrenced” recently??? That’s why you are so easily upset???
@sigmundringeck: Did you know Gaffuk is in Australia? Not all that far from where you are. You two should get together sometime. If you do, make sure to get a video tape because I’d love to see the smackdown beating you give him….
(oh, and I’m sure I meant that smackdown in the verbal sense…. I don’t want to get tagged by the Obama Administration as a violent radical!)
🙂
Mike Said: “So, when it comes to who is a bigger commie? the Chinese or Obama, it’s pretty clear Obama is.”
And: “ut at the risk of confusing you further I would just cite that the Chinese have been urging Obama to be less radical.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/07/AR2008030702846.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0116/p01s01-usfp.html
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/19992.html
Really Mike, the fact that opposing opinions, blogs and Tea Party’s are flourishing should be an indication to you that the Constitution still has some teeth left.
That wouldn’t be allowed in China.
China is simply worried about their investment, we put the cost of the Iraq was on our credit card, the Chinese credit card, all while putting in place the Bush Tax cuts. Dick Cheney said deficits don’t matter back then. The trend of China financing our debt didn’t start with Obama.
Not to even mention the economic near meltdown. The Chinese are in for a penny, and in for a pound at this point.
China is our economic competitor, not to mention they are still a repressive, Communist country with little regard for freedom and liberty. Do you really think they have our best interest at heart? They only have a concern for their investment/debt owed, and for the main market for their goods. They have had their foot on our economic throats, and they like it like that.
Why would you give more credibility to the Chinese worrying about Obama being “radical” than you would to our country’s President? Sounds like your siding up with the Chinese over the good old USA….
Iv’e posted this response twice. Mike, You deleted both. You have a good forum with some good people here, I take it you will continue to delete my postings Mike? I said before that it’s hard to reason with unreasonable people, are you afraid of the give and take from Ole Mooseburger, or are you just censoring posts from those who disagree with you.
http://www.euroinvestor.co.uk/News/ShowNewsStory.aspx?StoryID=10287566
http://www.flex-news-food.com/pages/19342/Baby/China/Dairy/china-subsidise-dairy-farmers-amid-milk-scandal.html
http://www.businessgreen.com/business-green/news/2215159/china-subsidise-energy
http://www.mashget.com/business/2009/03/26/solar-company-shares-jump-on-chinese-energy-subsidy/
http://bx.businessweek.com/global-auto-industry/china-government-to-subsidise-public-green-vehicles/2587156112726740316-e5c
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Chinas-first-big-mistake-pd20090401-QPAAW?OpenDocument
Among some of the quotes:
Last weekend the founder of the Stratfor private intelligence agency, George Friedman, told Business Spectator (KGB Interrogation, March 27) that, like Japan, China doesn’t have a market-driven financial economy. Decisions are made on social and political bases and therefore the deployment of money has been inefficient and generated non-performing loan problems.
Your against the horse your riding on Mike.
@mooseburger said: “Sounds like your siding up with the Chinese over the good old USA….”
Nope! Siding with the Chinese over Obama. There is a difference. And please note that the Chinese learned their lessons about free enterprise. Yet Obama seems determined to repeat the mistakes that led to so much turmoil and death in China in the mid 20th Century.
Sorry to say this, but I and many of us feel your dumbass president Obama is moving the US closer and closer towards a certain type of communism, and we are kinda worried about the money loaned you because, on this path, you are destroying your currency and your economy(and thus our investment–our loan to you).
China is moving away from communism, but america is moving towards communism under Obama, isn’t it funny???
Obama is a disgrace to america and an embarrassment to the free world.
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Somebody mentioned that borrowing money from us started under GWB.
When GWB was around did you see us complain about our loan to you??? Not a squeak cause we were comfortable with the US and GWB then. But now with Obama, many of our officials literally want to slap his face or wring his neck to wake up his marxist fantasies.
The problem is not the loan, the problem is Obama.
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Yes mike is right, the central command economy in the 60s and even 70s was a disaster that is now like some bad dream that we couldn’t get out of. That’s why so many chinese left the mainland and settled in SEAsia, because things were so bad there.
Only in the early 80s, when we adopted modified capitalist principles based on the singapore model did china start to come up to where it is today.
We still have a long way to go, but at least no chinese is now dumb enough to want to return to those marxist/communist days, that dear leader Obama seems to be bringing america towards. It may take him a hundred steps to get there, but he has already taken the first ten steps.
Americans should be aware.
Freedom and a good economy is lost easily, gained back only with difficulty.
Don’t think that it will never happen to you, because it is happening right now.
Maybe you won’t become like china last time, but you certainly can become like europe at its worst socialist mode.
@sigmundringeck worth repeating: “When GWB was around did you see us complain about our loan to you??? Not a squeak cause we were comfortable with the US and GWB then.
The problem is not the loan, the problem is Obama.”
@Mike
So let’s see
Tangent from Tea Day Protest
Tangent from Tea Day Protest
Tangent from Tea Day Protest
Tangent from Tea Day Protest
Tangent from Tea Day Protest
So if you me to stay on topic then surely others should do so as well – EVEN if they are replying to my original tangents. (Now that I’ve been told) Of course my tangents all represent a small minority of original tangents – including yours – on other threads. So happy to point those out – but that’s only going to get us all annoyed. All I’m asking if that the same ‘guidelines’ are applied to all – irrespective if the person who posts a message is perceived rightwinger or leftwinger.
Personally – what’s wrong with tangents – it’s debate. Let’s keep ’em! Day after Day Obama bashing gets as dull as constant Bush bashing – so having tangents with history, religion and politics in other countries – is interesting.
Anyway – let me know (hopefully without a jibe) your thoughts on this and if it’s fair for all – then I won’t ignore it.
Unfortunately it seems Comrade Sig doesn’t get democracy. In less 4 years time the voters of the US will be able to vote Obama out if they so wish. Unfortunately China is stuck with the same evil regime they have for decades for now. Mao is responsible for the deaths of millions of Chinese and yet a lot of them still worship him.
If the americans stopped buying cheap crap from China – there wouldn’t be any Chinese economy left to talk about;)
Oooohhh, the widdle Gaffa sounds so angry!!!
Needs to talk about china in a forum about america.
Perhaps you have not obtained your daily dose of being “LAWRENCED” today???
Didn’t ride on the hot, vibrating motorbike of your counter-terrorist idol Lawrence of Arabia enough???
Comrade Sig Von Felchmeister
I’m not angry – just laughing at you losers like you. You shouldn’t tell other not to talk about china in a forum about america when you do that. What a hypocrite! Go on deny it…
I’m interested in your expert knowledge on finance and China. I guess the taunt was too tricky for you too tackle. Although your history is shocking when you deny the contribution the US did in freeing your country. Why don’t you go and join the teabaggers – sounds like you would enjoy that from your fixation.