Mandel Ngan / AFP / Getty
Time:
After a week spent assuring the world that he is antithesis of his widely despised predecessor, President Barack Obama ended his first presidential overseas trip by doing a George Bush. In style, substance and photo-ops, Obama’s unannounced stopover in Baghdad was straight out of the Bush playbook.
Surprise stops on presidential journeys became the norm during Bush era, with the U.S. engaged in two foreign wars — in neither of which could it guarantee satisfactory security if the Commander-in-Chief’s intention to visit his troops was announced ahead of time. Still, Baghdad was the wrong choice for Obama. Iraq is Bush’s war — or Bush’s folly, depending on your point of view. Obama’s main contribution to Iraq has been to criticize the war while on the campaign trail, and then to begin drawing down the U.S. troop presence as soon as he became President. (See pictures of the Obamas abroad
Afghanistan would have entailed a few more hours of flying time, but it would have been the more logical stop for a President who has taken ownership of the fight against the Taliban and al-Qaeda.
Regardless of who’s playbook, I’m glad President Obama visited our troops in Iraq.
REUTERS/Jim Young
I expect some of my fellow rabid right-wingers will skeptically make a snide comment on the above photo; but this right-wingnut thinks the photo is heartening. He is our president and their commander-and-chief, after all.
In the confines of Camp Victory, there could be none of the adoring public, fawning politicians and over-caffeinated media attention that attended Obama’s stops in London, Strasbourg, Berlin, Prague and Istanbul. Unlike the Europeans, Iraqis saw nothing in Obama’s visit to distinguish him from Bush — although there was no opportunity to see whether an Iraqi reporter would hurl a shoe at him.
Instead, Obama had to be content with a rapturous welcome from the troops at Camp Victory — but even Bush got the rock-star treatment from that audience. Obama gave a boilerplate speech, thanking the troops and reminding everyone that important work remained to be done in Iraq. He broke no new ground in his discussions with U.S. commander Gen. Ray Odierno, and is unlikely to do any better with Maliki.
For George Bush, that would have been a good visit. For Obama, it was an anticlimax.
A former fetus, the “wordsmith from nantucket” was born in Phoenix, Arizona in 1968. Adopted at birth, wordsmith grew up a military brat. He achieved his B.A. in English from the University of California, Los Angeles (graduating in the top 97% of his class), where he also competed rings for the UCLA mens gymnastics team. The events of 9/11 woke him from his political slumber and malaise. Currently a personal trainer and gymnastics coach.
The wordsmith has never been to Nantucket.
The more time he spends with troops the better.
Word,
You shut me down cold, Bro. I was set to remind you that Obama was the CIC. Nice post.
By the way, I disagree with TIME and agree with you and tfhr
It was the most important audience he had on this long trip.
Ah no, Obama didn’t dress up in the quasi macho field jacket, fatigues and cod piece which Bush always wore. He came as a leader – for a change.
@liberaldude:
“cod piece”? You seem to have a bizarre interest in George Bush’s groin. Do you often day dream about him? You seem to have taken “liberties” with his clothing as well which leads me to believe you’ve spent a lot of time playing with dolls. Find a photo of Bush in “fatigues” or a “macho field jacket” and post it here or just shut the fuck up. And if you put up a shot of him in a flight suit you’ll only confirm your ignorance.
Bush went to visit troops in Iraq when it was still very dangerous and we appreciated that. Your pissy little comments tell me you are not worth much more of my time so I’ll close it here, ass hat.
@tfhr:
You beat me to it.
Let’s see how long before this loudmouth backs up his words with some proof.
I’m just so saddened that Obama’s visit to Baghdad disappointed Time’s editors so. Such a downer from his European love fest. God forbid he does something that’s actually an important part of doing his job well. That being to visit troops where they are, getting a picture firsthand of the situation in theater, and hopefully taking that into account as we move forward in transitioning from a primarily security-centric role to a support relationship to the Iraqi government. Unfortunately he got the wrong location – of course he should have gone to Afghanistan to capitalize on some rhetoric instead. Iraq is just “Bush’s folly” – no more, no less. Sure.
@liberaldude: Right, Bush made his visits dressed up as a member of the Village People. OMG, that’s so 2008. Both came as what they are – the Commander in Chief of our military. ‘Nuff said.
Hug ’em and screw ’em.
That’s Obama.
Regardless how some might or might not want to portray the President, I am glad he went to Iraq to visit the troops as well.
I am glad Obama did that, too. And the men and women in uniform were glad to see him. I like that.
Did he meet with the Iraqi leaders like he did last summer?
Catherine
To be clear, the troops cheered Bush far more in the very same room. Why? Well, maybe it’s because Bush supported their efforts to succeed while Obama opposed their efforts to succeed.
Patrol a neighborhood looking for Al Queda head sawer-offers…Obama opposed that.
Build a new school…Obama opposed that.
Build a new hospital…Obama opposed that.
Protect people waiting in line to vote…Obama opposed that.
Teach Iraqis to defend themselves…Obama opposed that (now he calls for it).
Stop Al Queda suicide bombers from coming over the border via Syria…Obama opposed that
Get killed by Iranian 50cal sniper rifles and shaped charge boobytraps….Obama said talking would protect em.
I’m curious. Haven’t read the transcript yet. Did Obama’s speech say he was sorry for opposing their efforts to succeed? Did he say that France, Germany, Spain, Russia, China, or any members of the G20 had now pledged to send troops to Iraq (no, because he was wrong, AND inept at getting them to send troops). Did he apologize to them for getting rid of the timeline to withdraw that he promised (first it was immediately, then it was ‘once elected’, then it was 16 months, then it was 16 months for ‘combat troops’, then-5months after being elected-he had the DoD look into a withdrawal and decided that 18 months would be good, but 50,000 would remain in Iraq forever, and now it’s 19 months).
Yes, it’s a good thing the Commander in Chief went to Iraq, saw the people who fight and die on his order (or lack thereof), and it’s good that some cheered him, but make no bones about it…his opposition to the war encouraged the enemy to fight, enabled allies to skirt their share of international responsibility, and his false promises (as well as all his opposition) was just ignorant political rhetoric. Now, the men and women who fight and die at his command are no longer just political tools, and I’m happy for every opportunity he has to face that reality.
oh, btw, LOVED the notecard instead of a teleprompter! That was WAAAAAAY too funny!
Oh dear – looks like we need a ‘clap-o-meter’.
@GaffaUK:
The “clap-o-meter”, better known by it’s medical nomenclature, “Syphiliometer”, has been out of use since the Clintons left office though there is some evidence that it was disabled by over use or violent impact in 1999.
Just wondering were these troops hand picked ?
Just my observation seemed to me they were mostly female, very few palefaces in the crowd, mostly army grunts, did anyone notice any air force, marine, navy in the crowd ?
As for the cheering, Obama is the President of the United States of America, Commander in Chief of the US military, US troops show respect always have always will.
Quite frankly I don’t like Obama and I don’t trust him….
…But, if I was in the military and serving in Iraq, I would be cheering my lungs out at Obama’s promise that he would be pulling us out and we would be going home within 18 months, especially after hearing that under our new Commander in Thief, President Obama’s military budget cuts air coverage and tactical support will be reduced, and after his earlier proposal/suggestion that if I get hit by an IED or injured in a rocket attack, or seriously wounded by a suicide bomber I should pay my own long term medical expenses….
…Quite frankly I’m surprised the cheering wasn’t louder
Why would anyone in harms way under these circumstances not cheer President Obama telling them they can leave and go home now ?
…Its a no brainer peeps 😉
.
@philly_nj:
philly_nj,
Most of the troops at Camp Victory are Army as we have the largest presence there and in country but I did notice some USAF and Marines in the crowd. Look for the sand and brown desert digitals for Marines and the odd, tiger strips that use the same basic colors as Army ACUs, for USAF.
As for the demographics of it all, you can expect to see more females in a location with major support activities like Victory and it holds true for minority representation as well. They will be readily at hand and easier to pull into a visit that requires them to drop what they are doing compared to personnel on patrol, running operations, maintaining critical mission support, etc. More senior men and women would cut their troops loose to attend the visit while they continued their mission, so that would account for many of the young faces and fewer “old” faces in the crowd.
And no, I don’t like him either, but as I said before, the more time he spends with troops the better. I’d like to see the President meet more infantry, tanker, artillery, and aviation types in the Army along with Marines, sailors, airmen, and Coasties but this is a good start when you consider that he had virtually no contact with us up to now.
tfhr, You are right sir, President Obama made a quick in and out to Camp Victory only so obviously he did not meet too many (if any) combat and front line troops ….
Thank you for pointing that out and keeping me honest 🙂
.
tfhr, Aye Chihuahua, Ah…you don’t remember ‘Mission Accomplished?” Lol!
@liberaldude:
Don’t look now but your cluelessness is showing.
You said:
Where’s your proof for any of those accusations?
Where is it?
None of those things is proven or supported by your reference to “Mission Accomplished”.
Epic FAIL for you.
@tfhr
lol nice. Well – we need some kind of contest to sort out who better than the next guy based on popularity. Na-na na na nah…
Aye Chihuahua, are you really this stupid?
http://mission-not-accomplished.com/Bush_codpiece.jpg
@liberaldude:
The pertinent question here is, are YOU that stupid? Obviously you must be.
Still no proof whatsoever to support your claims.
Imagine that.
As of now, your participation in this thread is adding nothing worthwhile to the discussion.
If you would like to post some sort of evidence to support your ridiculous claims feel free to do so.
Liberaldude:
The point Aye Chihuahua is trying to make in his endearingly clumsy fashion is that, since you wrote “field jacket” and “fatigues” instead of “Type 35 Ballistic Flight Suit by Wadsworth, Inc., size 42 long” or some such overly specific “let’s play army” style of drivel, you must be lying. Since you didn’t correctly specify the article of clothing Bush wore when he landed on the carrier for the “Mission Accomplished” photo op, Aye Chihuahua can pretend that everything you write on the issue is thereby invalidated.
I don’t think I’m rabid but I wept a bit (i have to admit) when I saw so many who support him.
It’s one thing to be respectful to a president, which I totally agree with, but the reaction he got showed that a LOT of soldiers just plain want to go home. Naive me had thought the majority felt the mission worthwhile enough to not want to leave, as I’ve heard time and time again.
A friend got an email from a friend there who said the people less enthralled with Obama just sort of filtered back while those favoring him pushed forward, so it wasn’t ALL THE SOLDIERS LOVED BARACK, but …..lots did. And, while part of me totally understands…….part of me was more upset than I’d have expected I’d be.
@Z:
Well Z, this e-mail from someone who was there might make you feel a tad better:
Things are not always what they seem. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
I made a post last night that I believe may be caught in the spam filter. Would someone kindly retreive it?
Aye Chi,
I checked your link. So some guy named “MacRanger” who happens to have a website got an e-mail from some unnamed sergeant “who was there.”
Damn, I’m convinced by that authoritative evidence.
You’re right about the cameras too. I didn’t see one chartreuse camera with a giant telephoto lens. Digital cameras look a lot a like.
@Dave Noble:
Dave, Mac is a former Army Ranger. Although his blog isn’t a Milblog, he has had a number of military posters commenting off and on throughout the two wars. When my nephew was in Iraq I visited his blog and a number of other Milblogs regularly to read what our troops were saying, some were posting from the two fronts, some from home, the blogs (with permission from the poster) frequently post e-mail they receive from troops. I don’t doubt that Mac received this e-mail and he wouldn’t have posted it if it didn’t come from someone that he didn’t positively know was on the scene. He’s quite an honorable man.
@GaffaUK:
You say, “Well – we need some kind of contest to sort out who better than the next guy based on popularity.”
To which I say, History sorts that out for us, right?
@ChrisK:
@Aye Chihuahua:
@liberaldude:
Chris,
Drawing on your extensive personal experience in carrier landings, what sort of clothing did you wear? Nomex flight suits are a standard for flight crews because of the risk of fire. Do you acknowledge that crew safety would require protective clothing or are you going to just try to get by on snark in the absence of any knowledge relative to the discussion?
What kind of aircraft do you think landed on the deck of the USS Roosevelt? Air Force One? If the aircraft bringing the President to the carrier had experienced an in-flight emergency, do you suppose the Chief of Naval Operations would have said, “Well, I’m sure glad that we convinced the President to wear a business suit because his smoking body was easier to find.”
Seriously, your adherence to liberal talking points and the long over used practice of engaging in character assassination makes you sound like a drooling fuck-wit, but hey, if that makes it easier to get along in life (within in the circles you travel), then drive on.
@Z:
You said, “…a LOT of soldiers just plain want to go home. Naive me had thought the majority felt the mission worthwhile enough to not want to leave, as I’ve heard time and time again.”
I’ve been to Iraq and I can tell you that it was the best job I’ve had in the Army in 20 years but throughout my time there I missed my family and friends and was eager to finish my tour. Bottom line: troops are human too and while I know you realize that, don’t mistake the reaction you saw for a rejection of the mission. Understand that reenlistments have been at all time highs in Iraq for a long time and that reflects directly on the mission.
That said, if you or Obama would pose the question to those soldiers about returning to Iraq in four years if the place folds up because we left too soon, you could rightfully expect a deafening silence.
@Aye Chihuahua:
I would like to know who the “pre-screen[ing] officials” were because I find that sort of a tactic to be pretty stupid. Nobody would have been forced to attend and anyone really opposed to such a visit would have found better use of their time. You don’t get a lot of free time, no matter where you are in Iraq, so having to screen the crowd for either malcontents or rabid acolytes seems unlikely. And handing out cameras? No way. I don’t like the guy but pulling a stunt as suggested by the “sergeant” doesn’t square well with a team as campaign slick as Obama’s handlers.
@Missy:
I read your comment after I posted on Aye Chihuahua’s but I as I said, I see no need to go to such measures to create a PR boost for himself. I’m NOT questioning MacRanger’s honor or you vouching for him, quite the contrary, but I would allow that somebody may be feeding him information that has not been corroborated.
There is too much chicanery suggested here to make any publicity gain worth the risk. If this is true Obama has shot himself in the foot but I seriously have my doubts about it.
tfhr,
Not trying to be the style police, just speaking one poster to another. I see your even-handed, fair-minded posts and then you call somebody a “drooling fuck-wit.” Why the disconnect?
I post on another blog where the insults are hopelessly debased and about 90% of the content. Not being a pacifist, I just give them back what they dish out. But, I am trying to decide whether I want to return to that site. My facility with creative vulgarity is really getting a workout, but not my rhetorical, research, or reasoning skills. I think – Why give them my eyeballs to count?
That is not the case here on FA. I have people I prefer to talk to and others I don’t, but the overall atmosphere here at FA is more conducive to a real dialogue than elsewhere. I know this isn’t my site and that I am a guest here, but I would hate to see the level of dialogue at FA degenerate to that of a locker room. As I say, I can readily fend for myself in that environment, but I’m not sure I want to.
Now, to the topic at hand. Liberaldude and Chris are not far off the mark, whether they describe Bush’s attire accurately or not. Fine, given the exigencies, it was appropriate for him to wear the flight suit. But if you’re going to suggest that whole photo-op (Hey, where’d that “Mission Accomplished” sign behind me come from?) wasn’t choreographed tighter than the New York Ballet, you’re not the straight-shooter you seem to be.
Just felt like addressing a few things:
1. I’m some distance from the Al-Faw puzzle palace, but while the whole thing about asking who voted for Obama seems out of the ordinary, I wouldn’t be surprised. Normally, we try to be apolitical as possible, but more than likely, the brass didn’t want to risk having a frowny face in the crowd and have the event politicized more than usual (people use our reactions for political motives? Naw.) Case in point – the diverse congregation behind him was probably specifically made to be photo-op friendly. The military’s learned that pubic affairs is a necessary evil to do our job, as petty as it can be at times. As for the cameras – hell, when you only have a limited set of shops to buy stuff from, things tend to be the same brand. I wouldn’t overthink it.
2. Of course we’re excited to see the CinC come and see us. While it’s a ginormous pain in the butt to jump through hoops when a distinguished visitor (DV) visits (FYI, putting together a visit from the President in less than 24 hours is a horror I wouldn’t ask on my worst enemy, so while maybe not a surprised, it can be called “unannounced”), it’s a good feeling when we know that they’re seeing the ground first hand, with the hope that they’ll get an appreciation of what’s really going on. The fact that Obama is our first black President is pretty noteworthy too, don’t you think? I think part of the reason that there was a sense of approval in the air is that Obama actually acknowledged what the military has done to turn Iraq around. True, while he never really mentioned the word “surge” or acknowledged that the road to victory started before his election, hearing it from him means something to a group of people that generally feel that the mission that they do, the progress that gets accomplished, the real *good* that they make happen gets washed away in politicism, criticism, or misunderstanding. Regardless of personal opinions, hearing it from the top guy (or gal) makes you feel good. It’s not worship, it’s respect.
3. I can really only speak for myself and those I know personally, but for the most part, those in the military are very, very skeptical of politicians, to include the President. The difference when it comes to the CinC is that there’s always hope that he/she will transcend the pettiness and think about us as his/her troops. However, there’s probably a good reason why military folks tend to be more skeptical of Dem Presidents. We don’t enjoy being patronized or exploited for someone’s agenda, regardless of the political affiliation.
4. Of course we want to go home, but that doesn’t mean “cutting sling load”, as we say. My unit’s one of the last units that deployed for 15 (vs. 12) months, and it’s as frustrating as hell to be here for that long, knowing that life continues on back home without you. That’s only natural. What would be worse is dropping everything irresponsibly, based on a campaign promise, making what we’ve done, suffered, and many of us died for all for naught, all for the sake of “just going home”. Fortunately, the gears of success have been in motion for some time – success from the surge and Iraqi awakening (last year), the negotiations and ultimate ratification of the SOFA (that started early last year), and the growing self-sufficiency of Iraqi Security Forces (started almost from day 1) have finally created an environment that’s conducive to whittle down our footprint and almost call a victory, although we hesitate from using the word, because success is always tenuous in this theater. Obama’s campaign promise didn’t give us any of that – it was the blood, sweat, and tears of countless service members and Iraqis over the last 6 years.
Phew, enough from me. I just wanted to make an attempt to clear the air, for what it’s worth. However, one last parting shot:
@liberaldude:
I’m going to jump on the bandwagon and say you’re weaksauce by using Bush’s wardrobe as the basis of your criticism. Blah-blah-Bush started the war-blah blah. Got it, heard it before. The man actually tried to do his best as the CinC, and while not perfect, he came across as genuine, if a bit awkward at times (okay, a lot). I’m not saying shut it, but come up with something substantial next time.
Grok’s last comment makes several good points. I especially liked his comment to liberal dude. 🙂
Wordsmith, I’m angry at Obama, and especially after seeing the headlines that he’s going to try to get amnesty for illegal aliens passed, but I am glad he visited the troops. After all, he is Commander in Chief even if I rather wish he weren’t, and it would be worse than bad to have a president who refused to visit the troops.
@Dave Noble:
“Style Police” v. “Thought Police”, you can take whichever you like but what I will not stand for is someone that willfully distorts to mislead and impugn. What was the intent of the person claiming that President Bush was adorned in some sort of “cod piece”? And when Chris chimed in with his contribution, there was nothing fair-minded intended.
When you admit that “given the exigencies, it was appropriate for him to wear the flight suit”, then why do you tolerate what amounts to an effort to engage in a character assassination?
Pardon my french, Dave, but coming from a military family and actively serving at this time, I take issue with people that use our uniforms for anything other than their intended purposes. We sometimes use coarse language in the Army, can you believe it?! Believe this: You will never see me or anyone in my family wearing fragments of uniforms, unmaintained uniforms, or ever in a way that brings dishonor to the rest of the branches of the services in which we now serve or have served in the past. The uniform is a symbol and reflection of who we are and what we stand for in this world. Wearing it incorrectly or MOCKING those who wear it is an egregious insult and I will not stand for it.
Not knowing “fatigues” from a flight suit is a measure of ignorance that I can tolerate when the intent to insult is absent. In this case, no. Can I be more center of mass for you?
Thought I’d mention – Mike just outed the other blog. I’m sure the majority of FAers enjoy the atmosphere here more than there. I sure as hell do.
Mike, why dont’ you go over there? You’d be a lot more at home – no intellectual heavy-lifting, “Mean Girls” dishing, silly nicknames, frivolous posts about the First Lady’s eyelashes.
You could even bring your graphics to keep the trogs amused.
@Grok:
Well said.
Be safe.
v/r,
tfhr
Dave Noble #33: I had read some of the comments on the blog that Mike’sA mentioned on another thread, and frankly wasn’t sure that was actually you. Seemed like a completely different person with the delivery. Frankly, didn’t think you had “gutteral” in you… LOL
Just wanted to say that I am pleased that particular side of Dave Noble doesn’t reside here. And I agree that the vulgarities and language used here gets on my nerves. We all indulge on occasion and everything must be evaluated in context. I always label my “removals” with my name, and try to use them sparingly. Generally it has to do with whether it’s on the context of descriptive adjectives/adverbs around a viable point as opposed to general insult hurtling.
Nuff said there, of I will have to accuse myself of the “lovefest” (feel better, pal Word? :0)
Now, also in your comment, you are misrepresenting the story of the “Mission Accomplished” banner as a White House organized photo op instead of a banner requested by the crew of the longest deployment. Also, it’s particular placement on the ship was the most logical giving the ship’s design, and where the formal gathering to greet the CIC was held on deck.
Your comments suggest you are are clueless as to the ship’s history and the story, your forgot the story, or you just refuse to accept the facts.
Assuming one of the first two, here’s a repeat via one of my mid January comments to bring you up to speed… hopefully for the last time.
Also, Wordsmith did a post on this back in January, bu didn’t go into as much detail about the longest deployment for a naval vessel on record.
In the future, it would be great if you didn’t continue to beat a dead horse with misleading talking points, and continually force us to dive into the archives to countermand your casual accusations.
Just to add to Missy’s comments about MacsMind, I will note he has had his site hacked by twice… and both times three of othe cyber bombs planted to take the site down were traced back to BarackObama.com.
Yes, he is a retired Army Ranger, and not at all hard to believe he maintains friends with those still on active duty. When you add that he was important enough to become a target for Obama’s self-professed cyber hit squads not once, but twice, I’d say that gives him more credibility.
Mata,
The ship’s history and the storm is irrelevant to the fact that it was a carefully choreographed photo op. That’s not a talking point, that’s a political reality. “Oh not, not our President – he never set up photo ops. Everything that happened happened exactly as it had to happen. ”
“Talking point” is a label you put on one of the other side’s facts you feel uncomfortable with.
Now now, Dave… don’t be putting what you believe definitions are into my mouth. Talking points are a dual edged sword. Both the Dems and GOP have them, and they are the agreed upon rhetoric to put forth as a unified “that’s my story, and I’m stickin’ to it” front.
The banner was requested by the ship’s crew. As an ex-Navy wife, I felt for their deployment sting on both them, and their families. Frankly, if they wanted the banner with their choice of words, I’m all for it. It was not the idea of the WH, but they did get the banner made for them.
That you wish to twist it into some nefarious event is merely following the “talking points” of your like minded citizenry. And I’m not the least bit uncomfortable with calling a spade a spade.
@MataHarley:
Incredible. Do you have more info on this? Sounds like I need to start checking that site. Thanks Missy and Aye Chihuahua!
Here’s Mac’s update on one of his site assaults from last July, tfhr. And here’s MacsMind blogsite I have dashed in and out of Macs, as well as AJ Strata’s Stratasphere for a few years now.
But one of my favorites from a military blogger I found via Ray Robison about a year ago… That would be Lt. Col. Caveman at Ramblings from the Rock. A big thumbs up from me on this guy.
tfhr,
I didn’t say Chris or Liberaldude were fair-minded, I said you were. Hey, everybody gets pissed off. Don’t make excuses for yourself. You think I don’t get pissed off on this blog? I spent five years working in factories, twenty years in the Air Force, ten of it on the flightline, and now five years working with cops. You think I don’t want to use, or would have a hard time coming up with, “salty” language?
Like I said, though, there are implicit standards on this blog and I for one don’t want to see them abandoned. And they don’t just apply to Mata Harley.
And don’t use the respect for the uniform issue, which I am sure you are sincere about, to deflect attention from the fact that you were also pissed that George Bush was criticized. Why is it a blasphemy to criticize the former President and CIC, when this blog is full of the most rank insults to the current President and CIC?
Can I be more center of mass for you, or do you read me?
Mata,
I was just wondering – are you under the misapprehension that somehow you get to “know” someone here on the blog? You know what they say and how they say it. That’s all you know. You don’t know what they are like in real life.
As I say, I have people I prefer to have a dialogue with here and others I prefer not to have a dialogue with. I’m not at the other site, because there is virtually no one there to have a dialogue with. That’s fine, it’s my choice.
It’s that simple.
In response, Dave Noble, we get to know each other only as well as how open we are on a particular issue. Hang no, I don’t think it gives me insight to how anyone is in real life. I’ve often thought how odd it would be to meet someone unknowingly in day to day life, only to find out later that we do cyber battle here online. I suspect many of us, despite our differences, would have many enjoyable conversations.
I’ve always figured that I may like only a certain percentage of some friends and acquaintances, knowing they have sides I can’t abide. And the same is said for anyone in dealing with me personally. So I try to engage only that percentage I find appealing, and ignore the rest.
That said, we do learn much about each other on issues, and how we have chosen to form our opinions on these issues with comments. So if this is all about me being surprised at how well you speak “gutteral”… LOL… I guess it was just a side to your cyber personality I’ve never seen. Actually, no judgment attached to your newly discovered ability to bring out your “salt”. I can out-truck-driver many in language, but generally hold that at bay as often as possible. Let’s just say you usually keep your online personality here more eloquent and centralized in substance. There was a big disconnect for me there, altho, I do find it intriguing and very human.
As I said, I much prefer your presentations here, and appreciate that.
@Dave Noble:
@MataHarley:
What do you mean you cannot get to know someone on this blog?
Heck, I’ve got pictures of each of you on the sides of my monitor right now.
Dave, those new pajamas really bring out the color in your eyes. The furry slippers ruin the look though.
Mata, with that new haircut you don’t look a day over 30.
Mike, that thong, even though it’s an FA thong, is something that should remain in your drawer to only be worn on really dark nights.
Hey Word, can you scoot over to the left just a little I cannot see the TV.
@Dave Noble:
Oh I “read” you but you’re coming in broken and stupid because criticism is a far different thing than deliberate insult and I would expect you to be able to make the distinction. I wouldn’t think of criticizing your years in the USAF, three of my relatives have served in that branch, so I know a thing or two about it but I’d bet you would be a little irritated if someone used an Air Force uniform as a foil for a crass joke, regardless of the target.
I’m no fan of President Obama but I do not engage in insulting commentary about him because it demeans the office. I can proclaim my dissatisfaction with his policies, views, remarks, choice of cabinet officials, you name it, but I won’t crapping on him for appearing in front of sailors returning from more than a year at sea.
You can excuse the rude, crude, and vulgar remarks of liberaldude and the other guy if you feel the need but it seems inconsistent of you to chide others for countering them in kind. As far as that is concerned, I’m done with you.