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It is sure hard to lie about something when you are caught red-handed doing it. It is so sad watching him, but it so funny as well. I can’t see this guy lasting much longer. He is horrible.
Dave: You don’t have a point. There was no joke here.
I stated a FACT.
Think about it.
Timewaster!
luva the scissors
15 years ago
gibbs is not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, i almost feel sorry for him….nah. is it me or is gibbs starting to look more pasty and sallow? i think the pressure may be getting to him, poor baby.
Hard Right
15 years ago
Geithner is the next sacrificial lamb on the obama alter. The MSM is going after him
not because they suddenly want to report the news. It’s because they need a scapegoat
in order to protect their messiah. I’d say he will be resigning before too much longer
.
When the MSM turns on a dem there is ALWAYS an ulterior motive. A circling of the wagons if you will.
ruaqtpi2
15 years ago
If things get uglier (and I think they will), I can’tt imagine Gibbs staying.
What makes someone want to be the White House Press Secretary, knowing most of time you’ll be spinning and serving as a shield for the President and Administration. It has to be extremely stressful, especially when everyone in the administration is a bungling fool.
But ultimately I don’t feel bad for Gibbs; he accepted the job.
Jeff V
mooseburger
15 years ago
I am a Democrat, voted for Obama, and I do welcome this kind of scrutiny and digging in to find out the truth. It is good for our country for the press to do their job finally, after the Iraq war and the lies and crap leading up to it, I say it about time the President and his Cabinet are held accountable, and I don’t care what party anyone voted for, it is the only way to keep our government as honest as possible. When the reporting is good, thorough, and conclusive, then it is up to the people to decide when they go to the polls if they reward or toss ’em out. Let the judgement of the voters always have the final say in the matter. I will say though, that as much as you folks here seem to hate Obama, he IS the President of our country, and the ONLY reason he is, is because of the failure to govern well by Mr. Bush and company. President Obama could never have been elected had the Conservative Republicans not been a disaster for this country in the eyes of the majority of the voters, even the Republicans would not mention Bush’s name during the Presidential campaign and were running from the leader of their party. So it is on the Republicans heads that the country voted for this change, as a rejection of the last President and his leadership. The media can cover stories, or not, go into a frenzy or ignore, but the American people are not totally stupid, and whatever the media or the Administration spin as the hot button issues, the people themselves get to make the only judgment that really matters as to what really concerns them. Most folks are about over the big time snipe fest that has been our politics for too long, and are more worried about their own real problems, and the sooner the Republicans can show some good solid leadership, offer sound solutions with less Lemming like partisan antics, the sooner the wise people in this country will embrace them as good and deserving leaders and this will impact the agenda Obama has set out. The current Republican strategy is a big time dead end, they have no compass and no idea where to go except farther to the right. The demographics are cutting against them and they seem like the last of the dinosaurs, they better evolve to the changing conditions or they will fail to thrive, or possibly become extinct. Just waiting for Obama to fail is a pretty lame strategy, whether you like Obama or not. Bush did about everything he wanted to do for 8 years and it didn’t matter if he was well liked, popular, or blogs and media were on him all the time, the man seldom was kept from doing the things he wanted to do. Why would you think that it will be any different with this President? He will move his agenda and get it done as long as Republicans continue to be weak naysayers with their only hope being that yelling socialist and hoping for failure will scare the people. We have heard them crying Wolf too many times now, and might not believe them now even if there were really a Wolf at the very door. The Republicans have been rejected and now own their failure, and the blame for the state of the Country. This fact is represented by who our Government is led by today, and the direction the Country is going to go….the Reagan era is on it’s way to being placed on the ash heap of history…..
bigpapa
15 years ago
Mooseburger,,, I’m calling BS.
The ONLY reason Nobama is the POTUS is due to a biased media that rode Bush or any other GOP president into the ground and the majority of dims want something for nothing..
The media is why we have a no talent brain dead moron for POTUS and an incompetent administration…
Is this same bias media that let Dubya, his daddy, Reagan, Nixon etc win?
When a Republican wins it’s obviously due to their talent and views, when a Democrat wins – it’s not fair, let’s stamp our feet and blame the media. lol. Maybe if the Republicans weren’t in-fighting so much over their own candidate – they might have done better. This is what you get with a democracy and a free press. Maybe the media should be controlled and silenced by the GOP and only give the electorate a choice between Republicans and RINOs rather than allowing democrats and commies in.
Scott Malensek
15 years ago
Man, wait until there’s a world crisis. These guys are actually managing to make the Bush Administration look organized and intelligent.
Scott Malensek
15 years ago
Mooseburger, First off I want to thank you for the long and detailed comment. I enjoyed it and found it informative. Second, I’d like to point something out…
Obama has broken a HUGE number of campaign promises (not the least of which was a new direction in Iraq and a 16 month end to the war). If all the people who voted for him knew then what they know now (about how he would break promises and pledges that have cost lives, hundreds of thousands of homes, almost 2 million jobs, haven’t brought peace, etc)….if only 3.5% of the people who voted for him knew then what they know now, they’d probably change their vote, and McCain would win.
For all the times I hear “We won” or “I won”, I want to say, “BARELY” or “You wouldn’t today”
Obama’s a great American Idol contestant, but as a leader, he fails (because he ain’t leading anyone but Democrats), and as a manager…well, let’s go see him ask some of those 2 million people who lost their jobs since he became President. Yeah, I know, he inherited the bad economy from a lame duck President and a Congress where he was a man of great accomplishment; ie, he inherited the economy from budgets HE and DEMOCRATS created and controlled.
@GaffaUK: Why is it so difficult for you to admit that a media bias towards the left exists and that it has a profound effect on elections?
If there really were a level playing field Republicans would win nearly every election. Our ideas really are better and history has proven it.
Now, if you don’t mind, could you stick to the topic here and not attempt another Obamaesque distraction from the train wreck?
mooseburger
15 years ago
Mooseburger,,, I’m calling BS.
The ONLY reason Nobama is the POTUS is due to a biased media that rode Bush or any other GOP president into the ground and the majority of dims want something for nothing..
The media is why we have a no talent brain dead moron for POTUS and an incompetent administration…
Bigpapa,
I understand your frustration, and media coverage from either side of the coin can be called into question, no doubt. But, by making this argument, you are admitting that you and the force of your ideas, values, and history of governance are too weak to overcome the “Liberal Media” , that you are weak and powerless victims who can’t effectively covey to the American people what the truth is and why you should be given the reins of Government. I hear this from the Conservative side often, Barney Frank this, Pelosi, Dodd that, and so on. What you are really saying to the the American people with these arguments is that you are weak, can’t stop the powerful Dems and powerful Media, they are just too powerful. Basically blame the Refs for some bad calls is why you lost the game. Sometimes this is true, but most of the time, this is what losers do, not winners. By talking about things like “if the election were held today”, “if there was a level playing field”, only reinforces the point that you are making an argument based on your weakness as a Political force. While this sour grapes approach might make you feel better and keep you from taking ownership of your election defeats, the more you spread this line of thought, the more damage you do to your own cause, it plants the seeds in people’s minds that you have no power or ability to do anything about where the Country is headed except cry foul, oppose, and not get yourself back in the game. You will always have some Republican strongholds, but as a National Party, making arguments portraying yourselves as Losers being swept by the unfair forces surrounding you probably will not be an effective way to win the hearts and minds of the American people.
Hey to you, Mooseburger. I join Scott in saying welcome, and a thank you for a civil presentation of your opinions here. But I would make a request that your future posts have ’em broken down into some paragraphs. These old eyes often find it hard to focus when the content is run together all in one. Visually breaking it up is oh so helpful. LOL
Just a few things I’d like to comment on… and apologies to Mike for perpetuating an off topic subject. (Tho frankly, how much can you say about Gibb’s incompetence??)
You said:
I will say though, that as much as you folks here seem to hate Obama, he IS the President of our country, and the ONLY reason he is, is because of the failure to govern well by Mr. Bush and company. President Obama could never have been elected had the Conservative Republicans not been a disaster for this country in the eyes of the majority of the voters, even the Republicans would not mention Bush’s name during the Presidential campaign and were running from the leader of their party.
I’d like to emphasize your key phrase in there…. …”a disaster for this country in the eyes of the majority of the voters”.
Perception is everything. And perception is created and honed by media reporting. When it comes to Bush, it’s eight years of perception founded on Iraq failure… oooops. Make that a success for the Iraqis (thus far) and the US coalition.
All news about that country, the war and it’s progress was bad news. When it’s good news, it dropped off the face of the earth thru most of last year. Despite the DNC and media oppositions’ best efforts, that country will be left to it’s own to govern as a free elected nation, and an ally to the US – just as Bush envisioned. And our military and coalition partners should be proud of their part in helping to create a new Arab democracy where a despot once held sway.
But this election wasn’t about Iraq… precisely because when Iraq became a positive story, it became a non story. So this election was actually about the Republican Congress since mid 90s, and their spending. However they needed Bush for the fall guy since they couldn’t afford to paint their own as the honest failures they are.
“Disaster” is too strong a word. Unless you are foolish enough to believe that our current economic situation, and place in the world started on Inauguration Day 2001, you might want to point out what “disasters” you speak of. Prior to 2001, the US was still not loved, jihad movements were revered as freedom fighters, attacks on US interests world wide had been increasing over three and a half decades, and the real estate bubble components were in place legislatively (CRA combined with Gramm-Leach-Bliley – all under Clinton admin)
Other than that, we have more allies in the Middle East now than ever before. We have not had another attack on US soil, as we have been engaging them on their own turf in other parts of the world. Bush’s legacy is primarily about foreign policy, as his domestic agenda was thwarted… which brings me to your other comment:
Bush did about everything he wanted to do for 8 years and it didn’t matter if he was well liked, popular, or blogs and media were on him all the time, the man seldom was kept from doing the things he wanted to do.
*Only* on foreign policy. Do you see the social security or immigation reform he wanted? Do you see the military tribunals for Gitmo detainees going ahead instead of being delayed for years by ACLU law suits?
Did it ever occur to you that the reason Bush got what he needed for the military during his term is because even the DNC knew it was the best course of action? At any time, they could have ceased funding for the wars, forcing the Commander in Chief to bring the troops home. They did not. Why? It was more convenient for them to make a political stink about morality, and attempt to use it as an election weapon. The same goes for the Patriot Act.
You seem to forget, the Republican only had a slim majority from mid 90s to 2006. After that, it was the Democrats slim majority.
Using Iraq for political election advantage fell flat by 2008. Iraq was secure enough to sign a SOFA agreement for troop withdrawal late 2008, which Obama is following up on.
But then the bubble had burst, and the economy blame card came along… and it is there that Obama and the Democrats won. Why? Because the Republican Congress were virtually indistinguishable from the Democrat spenders in Congress. When the economy takes a turn down, the majority office holders get the blame. But when it comes to the bubble, both parties and Congress as a whole needs to take the heat for their legislative enabling.
Obama won because he promised to be a conservative…. ala tax cuts. The problem with Obama is his math. He cannot implement all the spending he wants, and give anyone a tax cut. That $13 you see in your paycheck starting in a few weeks will be but a dream by a year or so from now. Your taxes will be higher than they were last year. And by the time the health care and energy cap and trade plans hit, not only will taxes be higher, but the costs of goods everywhere for inflation.
Frankly, I’m relieved that McCain did not win. No, I most certainly didn’t want Obama, but there were no good choices for me, personally here. My relief is because I’m not up for an additional four years of Democrat whining because they aren’t in power. For decades they’ve been patiently training generations of youth and American voters into believing a social and economic justice rule of law is the American utopia.
Which brings me to my next secret – I’m glad they have almost a supermajority. Because now, they have no one to blame but themselves for what they are doing to the nation with all this spending. And, unfortunately, it will take watching this economic agenda tear down the nation’s economic superiority in the world before they figure out this is entirely the wrong direction if you want the America of opportunity. You might say this political era is letting the kid burn his hand on the hot stovetop.
If you dig below the AIG diversion circus to see what’s going on outside of the media 24/7 myopic bubble, you will witness that this administration is endangering the dollar’s position as the world reserve currency, risking our borrowing power, inviting hyperinflation, inserting themselves as the moral judge of US contract law, and setting up a new authority to seize financial institutions in advance that they “believe” endanger the nation’s economy. I am mindblown at the immense over reach of this administration in just two months.
Is that power grab enough? Well hold on to your seat. Because even tho they have a supermajority, they are so bent on seizing power over the private sector they fear even their own party’s renegades . So they will evoke the “reconciliation process” to bypass Congressional debate and pass anything they want with only 51 Senate votes. This allows for seven of their own to oppose as a cushion, and still win.
This type of ramrod governance, and overuse of that procedure for national spending of unprecedented scale, should scare the snot out of any American.. regardless of party affiliation.
I understand that you think “anyone but Bush” is the correct decision. But for all the Republican Congressional spending, they are Ebenezer Scrooges compared to what’s going on now. You can’t whine about GOP spending, then support today’s spending and still retain credibility.
So I’m afraid you are viewing the previous eight years with blinders, and possibly legally blind to the next four. We can only be thankful that we have the opportunity to change direction every two and four years with elections, and not live under a never ending term of tyranny and idiocy.
mooseburger
15 years ago
MataHarley,
Thanks for the warm welcome, and I will try to a better job of staying on topic and stay away from run on sentences….it’s a bad habit of mine.
I mentioned “in the eyes of the majority” for a reason, because even though I really can’t disagree withmany things you said in your response, perception does become the reality you have to deal with, that is part and parcel of political life in this country since it’s founding, or any culture for that matter. My point is, that no matter how much anyone tries to shape the perceptions, most people will form their own based on what makes sense to them as it relates to their lives.
I think all sides are being represented, it just shakes down they way it does, and people go to “get their religion” where ever they feel most represents their way of thinking. You guys have AM radio sewed up, Fox News is no slouch, very high viewership, the internet is wide open to everyone. Maybe it is true that the major networks are liberal biased, so what? When you have a message that resonates with reasonable people, the force of that alone is very powerful, and that is where true power lies, not with control over media outlets. I voted both times for Reagan, like his policies or not, he was a true leader, more than anything else, that is what we as a country respect more than about anything else.
Yes, it’s true, I used to be a dyed in the wool Conservative for many years. Ronald Reagan used to be a Democrat too. I feel like he did when he explained his switch to the Republican Party: “I didn’t leave them, they left me.”
People see through the crap for themselves, bottom line: if one party is in power, does not admit ANY mistakes, tries to shape a perception that always makes them look good, and others look bad, sooner or later, they get called on the B.S. come votin’ time, it’s just that simple. If you can’t take ownership of your good AND bad decisions and policies, other folks will do it for you. This cuts both ways.
Obama is not perfect, he will make mistakes, Gibbs does babble and stutter and I personally can’t barely stand it myself. Obama uses the Teleprompter way too much, no doubt there is concern for where we as a country are heading.
That being said, we as a Country almost manufacture nothing,, wages for most folks are flat or declining, the middle class is in danger of going extinct. The economy now is based mostly on consumer spending, I hope and believe that Obama is trying to rebuild the economy, and you have to start somewhere. When the middle class has their credit cards tapped out, and have no money left to spend, it is almost like building a new economic system from scratch. It is not Socialism or wealth redistribution, it is SURVIVAL as a country. Let the man do what he was elected to do, keep an eye on him and call him out on his B.S., but for the good of this country we all love, don’t try to jam the gears of our country to a grinding halt because of your partisan idealogical beliefs. You are hurting the country as a whole, most folks aren’t buying it, and your energy would be better spent in a positive endeavor.
Timothy
15 years ago
Why ditch the Press Secretary or Tresury Secretary? Why get rid of such great whipping posts???? Besides, good comedy is so hard to find these days.
Anyone remember Janet Reno? She accepted more blame and flak than humanly possible yet she was never fired WHY? Because the buck stopped with her and NEVER to the president.
These two gents make great shields for Obama. Don’t worry, the check is in the mail and they’ll be well compensated for their efforts.
Agreed the US manufactures almost nothing. Unfortunately, our departure from industrial giant began about forty decades ago, and has been steadily eroding.
I also agree that the Republican Party left me… a firm conservative. I think that is shared by those of us who view conservatism in the traditional sense of smaller government, responsible fiscal spending and minimal interference into our personal lives. Instead conservatism is misrepresented and demonized by the left and the media – erroneously portrayed as a party revolving solely around religious beliefs, hatred for the poor, and racial bigotry. The grassroots of conservatism are not “lost” nor confused. We have, however, been betrayed by those we sent to Washington and then tried to out Democrat the Democrats.
The Democrats have found their progressive/Euro-socialist leadership. The GOP is still looking for their conservative leaders. Obviously what we have now is damaged goods.
I don’t think we disagree that the economy needs rebuilding. But we do disagree on how much we, the taxpayers, are supposed to go along with the specific plans the Obama/Pelosi/Reid admin have in mind. I’m not apt to take the leap of blind faith that you are because I see repercussions that either you don’t, or you don’t care about.
You may see me as “jamming the gears”. What you see as “hurting the country” I see as preventing it from making a dire economic error.
But I’d rather grind the process to a halt and demand full debate on the repercussions than allow this administration and Congress to shove thru “emergency spending” that is almost guaranteed to lead to inflation and dollar devaluation. These particular policies and legislation are hard to reverse and recover from because their effects are far more encompassing than issues like Gitmo military tribunals and Roe v Wade.
I think most of us agree that spending is part of the equation. That said, the spending that’s occurring is too much, too fast, and too vague and most certainly fraught with waste and government red tape. Bills are being enacted without even being read. Most are knee jerk responses to problems they created with previous knee jerk legislation. And in fact, the policies are put into place without the process being defined… ala the Governors’ confusion over submitting deadlines and tracking job loss/creation for their stimulus monies. it’s like giving a car to someone who not only doesn’t know how to drive, but not passing on the manual either.
Gitmo is a perfect example. Obama sez I’m gonna close it… don’t know what to do with everybody yet, or how to prosecute the bad guys. But I’m gonna close it. (latest, BTW, is that they are thinking of releasing the country’less Gitmo grads here in the US…. oh joy)
I consider it part of the love of my country to demand they slow down, and provide open honest debate, bipartisan input and cautious, slower spending. I insist that before they make a law and policy, that they figure out the accurate costs of that, and put into place the way it’s going to operate. This is unreasonable?
You seem to consider my dissent on this spending spree an obstacle. Dang… I hope so. Tho two factors belie that statement. First of all, the GOP in Congress could take a two year vacation and not be missed since they are powerless to do anything but influence moderate Democrats. Secondly, Congress and WH totally dismiss public opinion, insisting they know best. Otherwise the stimulus and omnibus wouldn’t have gone thru.
We have always been a divided nation in opinion… and we will always be divided in the future. That is what keeps us healthy, along with the ability to often change our leadership. Our problem here is that we are a divided nation, ruled by a partisan empowered Congress and WH with an agenda to remake America into a Euro-socialist country.
I will not blindly throw my approval to all that’s being done by this administration merely to appease some bogus form of national “unity”. Just as the Democrats refused to support the former POTUS and our military – as was their right – I will continue to exercise my right to oppose this feckless spending.
If you were ever genuinely a Reagan conservative, Moose, I suspect you will be finding yourself in agreement witih many of us after a few years of economic fallout from this admin. Tho I’m trying to figure out how a disgruntled Reagan conservative can view the Democrat progressives as the better choice over big spending RINO Republicans.
Or perhaps you never were a conservative at heart, and prefer a nation comprised of social welfare nets and nationalized industries… from financial to energy. In which case your America and mine are two completely different nations.
Yes, it’s true, I used to be a dyed in the wool Conservative for many years. Ronald Reagan used to be a Democrat too. I feel like he did when he explained his switch to the Republican Party: “I didn’t leave them, they left me.”
Just a couple of things from your previous comments that I am trying to square in my mind here.
Reagan switched from the Dem party because it had drifted to the left, leaving him behind in the process. That would have put Reagan on the right hand side of the scale in comparison to where the Dem party ended up, thus he became a Rep.
You say that the Rep party left you by drifting to the left, so, that would have left you on the right hand side of the spectrum in comparison to where the Rep party ended up.
Now you’re here supporting Obama, who is on the far opposite end of the scale from “dyed in the wool” Conservatism.
That makes no sense. None.
If you were ever truly a “dyed in the wool” conservative you would not sacrifice your values and beliefs in order to support Obama.
If you were ever truly a “dyed in the wool” conservative you would not be supporting the guy who wants to “remake” and fundamentally change the American system.
If you were ever truly a “dyed in the wool” conservative you would know and recognize what socialism and wealth distribution are and would be willing to call them out and never equivocate in that process. Yet you claim that what Obama and this runaway Congress have in mind is not socialism or wealth distribution.
If you were ever truly a “dyed in the wool” conservative you would know that the changes that Obama and the Democrats are currently foisting upon the American people are dangerous and destructive.
Furthermore, if you were ever truly a “dyed in the wool” conservative you would know that the changes that are being put into place in our country now have never succeeded ever in the history of mankind.
Your argument makes no sense. A “dyed in the wool” conservative will always have conservative values and will never deviate from them.
Mike, Aye… I personally am assuming there is nothing in Moose’s past as a conservative. The dichotomy was obvious from the start.
I am also well aware that part of the left’s grassroots campaign is to come into conservative forums, representing themselves as reformed from evil conservatism, and reincarnated as an enlightened progressive.
Naturally debate would be a lot easier if they landed on the site and stated outright where they stand… ala “yeah! I think being another France or England would be cool”. But many prefer a more gentle coaxing, cloaked in mystery… seeking common bonds on which to build and convert. Remember the most pressing Obama cyber hit squad task at the moment… the quest to elicit blind support for the agenda, and eliminate (or discredit) any dissenting voices. This is the reason for Obama on the campaign trail, and the latest grassroots email call to action by MoveOn.org and Plouffe’s Obama campaign contact lists.
We all know the Alinsky drill and tactics. But perhaps many don’t recognize them if it’s not vile, overt, in your face force and rudeness. Even Alinsky’ites recognize – or are taught – you can catch more flies with honey.
All that said, Moose’s past political alliances aren’t the point. His (assuming male species…) current political philosophy is. Whether he’s an Obama grassroots entry here with a specific task, or is just plain curious and starved for genuine debate, it is on these philosophies we can begin.
A slight off-topic indulgence if I may. You mentioned the latest email call to action so I wanted to share this.
When my dog and I went out for our Saturday morning coffee routine, I swung by the local grocery store to see what was happening with the grassroots “Organizing for America” pledge project here in my little town.
There were only three people there, and they were the ones who were running the sign-up table with their Obama sign and their clipboards.
On my first visit I didn’t say much, just took in the lay of the land, and counted the names on the sheets. Nine. Nine people.
On my second visit about two hours later, without the dog, I counted the names again. Eleven.
On that visit, I decided to have a little fun. I began to speak with the three people at the table, asking them a series of questions regarding Obama’s promises, his actions since the election, and economics. I asked them about Cabinet appointments, taxation, wealth redistribution, the ginned up AIG outrage, and the monetizing of $1 trillion of debt.
Needless to say, the response was quite amusing. Some would refer to it as “deer in the headlights.” I call it “brook trout.”
After about twenty five minutes I had accomplished what I set out to do and moved on.
It’s really nice to see that the grassroots organizing effort is not working out any better this time than it did the last time when Obama called people to action. At least in this area.
If the comments in these two articles from the liberal San Francisco Chronicle can be used as a guide, it looks like sentiment and support is waning all over.
Terrific “man on the street” report, Aye… Brook trout? LOL
Yes, I think they’ll have a harder time prodding the O’faithful grassroots into action. Not because of any particular distaste for the agenda, mind you. I think most are just plain in the dark on the specifics, and most certainly on the unspoken repercussions with dollar devaluation and inflation.
It’s easier during an election campaign as it appears more expedient to many. Plus they get a tangible reward for their participation with election results by a certain date.
Frankly, when it comes to policy, it’s a harder road to hoe. No prize at the end which they can clearly claim. Not to mention they figured they already handed the WH to Obama, and a resounding amount of power to Congress.
bigpapa
15 years ago
Mooseburger,,,, Gaffa.
I wrote basically four lines and you two added and incredible amount of crap and things you “believe” I think.
I never suggested we should change freedom of speech.
I never said I was too weak to do anything about it..
PBO is a moron and if not for his constant passes by the liberal media he never would have become POTUS.
Simple statement but simply true..
Don’t put words in my mouth that I did not say nor did I think them..
@bigpapa: These lefties are experts at erecting straw men then projecting onto them all their prejudices regarding what THEY think conservatives believe. Much easier to do that then actually read what we say.
@Aye Chihuahua: In your neck of the woods I’m surprised they got 11 signatures. We might get a few more here on the coast but not many.
I’m surprised you didn’t get more of a rise out of the squawking socialist parrots than you did.
@MataHarley: I pretty much had Mossburger pegged as a phony but was doing my best to keep an open mind in case he/she/it wanted to provide some bona fides. Since I was present at the creation of modern conservative governance under Reagan I don’t take kindly to frauds.
Doesn’t something about the name “Mooseburger” strike you as a bit odd? Playing off liberal prejudices on Sarah Palin????
Anyway, I’m anxiously awaiting Mossy to return and prove me wrong. In the meantime, I’ll brush off my photos of me with the top dogs of conservatism just in case.
Gaffa: Is this same bias media that let Dubya, his daddy, Reagan, Nixon etc win?
Perhaps you ought to show us where the liberal media was on the side of Dubya, dad of Dubya and Reagan, Gaffa. They won despite the media. Which probably brings us to Moose’s mistaken notion:
But, by making this argument, you are admitting that you and the force of your ideas, values, and history of governance are too weak to overcome the “Liberal Media” , that you are weak and powerless victims who can’t effectively covey to the American people what the truth is and why you should be given the reins of Government.
bigpappa, you sure called it right. That Moose could make this leap from your four sentences is creative progressive imagination indeed.
I don’t believe I have ever seen the media so blatantly for a candidate in my life as this past couple of years. And while that had a great deal of influence on the election, Moose has yet to understand that it was not conservative values of tax cuts (via Obama) and fiscal prudence (not Obama, but people figured they’d get everything on the backs of taxing the rich…) that lost the election. It was a mandate on the Republican Congress who piled their piss poor performance onto Bush as the scapegoat.
Mr. Mike… I think the Mooseburger has more to do with Moose’s northern US location, and perhaps his love for the alternative meat. But I could be wrong…. LOL
Wouldn’t be holding your breath for him to return and prove he was a conservative. As I said, don’t believe it, nor does it matter. I start from today’s philosophy.
mooseburger
15 years ago
Hey Guys, I have been in and out for the last few days, because my Mother is in the Hospital, I have read your responses, and I will be back if you will be so kind as to have me and give a response later tonite.
I wrote basically four lines and you two added and incredible amount of crap and things you “believe” I think.
I never suggested we should change freedom of speech.
I never said I was too weak to do anything about it..
PBO is a moron and if not for his constant passes by the liberal media he never would have become POTUS.
Simple statement but simply true..
Don’t put words in my mouth that I did not say nor did I think them..
bigpapa – check my post again and you will see that at no point did I say that you believe in what I wrote, I didn’t say that you believe we should change freedom of speech nor that you were too weak do do anything about it and I didn’t any words in your mouth.
I put this to you – let say there is a left bias in some/most parts of the media – what do you propose to change that? And the bias cannot be that strong as plenty of Republicans have become President in the last 100 years.
mooseburger
15 years ago
It is amazing to see folks get worked up and pile on here, without any facts to back it up. You have assumed things already about me in your comments without knowing any facts about me. If some of you don’t like my opinions, that can be a healthy and fun debate. I am not part of any conspiracy or a plant, I just stumbled onto this site looking at different blogs with different viewpoints. I admit that I tend to rile a bit with some of my comments. I don’t think I have gotten personal with anyone here, but I have made comments about how I think your tactics are perceived, at least by me anyway. If anything was taken as personal that wasn’t my intent. All I was saying about the weakness of your tactics was that:
#1 I have faith in this country, and it’s people to collectively make good judgments.
#2 I believe that the American people, when faced with a crisis and an election at the same time, tend to choose the right persons as leaders
#3 If the Republicans are reduced to crying foul about the media being the cause of their losing the Presidential election, there is a fundamental weakness in their positions, policies, and/or leaders that the majority are not rewarding with their votes
#4 comments like “PBO is a moron and if not for his constant passes by the liberal media he never would have become POTUS.” only highlight the fact that if you had any better ammo than this to advance your conservative agenda, you would surely be using it instead of using the basest form of attacks like these. This line of “reasoning” not only demonstrates you have a very weak case to sell your beliefs, but also implies that you have no faith in the judgment of the majority of American voters. It implies that the American people who don’t agree with your beliefs can be easily fooled, and somehow only your beliefs hold the truth and wisdom needed, if the voters choose differently, then this is because they were fooled, not because their own judgment is a good or valid one… if only they knew the truth as you know it
Another thing, I never said that the Republican party going too far left was the reason I felt they had left me. Reagan DID raise taxes to fix Social Security, and Reagan DID grant amnesty to illegal aliens from Mexico, he took alot of heat from the Conservatives of his day when he started negotiating with the Soviets. He was less locked into an ideology than he was someone willing to find solutions and solve problems. He didn’t demonize his opponents, he could just smile and say, “well, there you go again” and win people over to his side rather than using a strategy of tearing down the other side trying to get people to turn away from them. Lee Atwater changed that with Bush 41. Lee atwater, on his deathbed, repented of the things he had done to Michael Dukakis. Wedge politics became the party platform, and a darn good tactic for that point in time. You may not like a candidate, but about the time that Max Cleland and John Kerry were turned into basically anti American Traitors to win an election, I felt something was very wrong.
You all may not agree with me, but to attack any Veteran who went to war for this country and has sacrificed for his Nation to win an election tells me more about your character than I want to know. It is beyond unacceptable, I would NEVER teach my kids to act that way, and those who can’t disagree without showing utter disrespect for someones service to our country will never get my vote, no matter what party or ideology.
It’s easy to mouth the words, and we all love to hear that too, support the troops! When your best Conservative mouthpiece, Rush Limbaugh, got out of the draft because of a big pimple on his ass, (look it up, it’s true) he has no standing to demean anyone else’s service. When Rush Limbaugh talks family values when his personal life has had troubles, addictions, when Newt Gingrich tells his wife laying in a hospital bed with cancer he wants a divorce because he has found someone else…..as Jesus has said, “you shall know them by their fruits”
The decision to use wedge politics regarding the War in Iraq was a stupid move, and caused 50% of the country to be cast as either “for us or against us” When we are at War, a wise leader would try to unite ALL America to the cause at hand. An unwise leader would and did drive a wedge between his party and the other party, casting differing viewpoints as cut and run, hates the troops, ect,. This is about as stupid a move and counterproductive to winning support for the war as you can get. Folks seem to forget that we had the No Fly Zone in Iraq, Saddam could not have farted sideways without a certain and strong response, he wasn’t going to do crap.
I don’t see any of the politics on either side as all bad or all good, and I don’t think I have to prove that I was a conservative or not to anyone. I think the opposition party has an important role and is vital to our politics. I don’t care if Y’all or some of you want to snipe at me for my views, or insinuate about some “other meat”, the personal attacks are just B.S anyway, some of you have made some real good points, I appreciate a good spirited civil discussion and even if I don’t agree, I can at least see your point and why you got there in a logical way.
Maybe Obama is no better, maybe you are all right about him. I see leadership, an effort to solve problems, and an ability to admit his mistakes. That is miles away from where we have been lately. Maybe he is the Anti-Reagan Reagan. What we’ve been doing for the last 20 years isn’t working very well anymore, and the knee jerk litmus test conservatism without room for different beliefs and opinions isn’t what I signed up for when I did look to Reagan as a great President. It has been twisted and perverted into something else. I hear it preached but not practiced. Those portraying our veterans as anti American are lower that a snakes belly. The Country and the media aren’t going to slow down for you, you are going to have to catch up with them if you want to regain leadership on a National level.
Thanks for letting me have my say here, the shields are up, so, send in the bombs……
Thanks for letting me have my say here, the shields are up, so, send in the bombs……
My phaser’s set for stun, only. 🙂
In your comment #10 you mention:
It is good for our country for the press to do their job finally, after the Iraq war and the lies and crap leading up to it,
And subsequently talk about weakness by pointing out media bias (as in comment #16):
I understand your frustration, and media coverage from either side of the coin can be called into question, no doubt. But, by making this argument, you are admitting that you and the force of your ideas, values, and history of governance are too weak to overcome the “Liberal Media” , that you are weak and powerless victims who can’t effectively covey to the American people what the truth is and why you should be given the reins of Government.
I agree with your belief that we gravitate toward information that appeals to our partisan nature; but I disagree with your belief that battling liberal media amounts to wasted effort and an admission of ideological weakness and victimhood. We’re only victims if we don’t fight back. People are only as knowledgeable as the information they receive. Much of public perception is shaped by liberal media, Hollywood movies and culture, and liberal indoctrination in the education system.
I live in California, and I’m hard-pressed to find people who listen to talk radio or even tune into FOX news; nor read political blogs, left or right. But they do watch CNN, the View, 60 Minutes, Bill Moyers, The Today Show, Jon Stewart, etc.; and tune into NPR for radio news, and open up the Los Angeles Times and New York Times. They get their opinions about Rush and FOX News from reading and hearing about them from liberally-biased sources.
As a possible example of the power of the press in shaping our perceptions, rather than merely having ideological differences regarding actual facts, I’m curious to know: Exactly what “lies” do you refer to in relation to the Iraq War?
There are good arguments to be made for being for or against the 2003 invasion; however, I think much of the credibility on behalf of the anti-Iraq War debate has been muddied by the “Bush lied” meme and by misunderstanding in regards to the case for war against Saddam.
I’m wondering if you are a victim of the influence of liberal media without knowing it; I have no doubt you are informed and have tried listening to both sides of a debate. However, I lose a bit of confidence on that when you talk of
The decision to use wedge politics regarding the War in Iraq was a stupid move, and caused 50% of the country to be cast as either “for us or against us” When we are at War, a wise leader would try to unite ALL America to the cause at hand. An unwise leader would and did drive a wedge between his party and the other party, casting differing viewpoints as cut and run, hates the troops, ect,.
Is this what Bush did? Engage in “wedge” politics? And if he did, was wedge politics unique only to Bush?
You seem to assume that because all of us have access to the information flow, that the power of mass mainstream media to ill-inform/misinform/ideologically influence is to be discounted or poo-pooed as somehow insignificant. But how often do we come across popular perceptions that can be factually proven as untrue by pulling out statistics or relying on factcheck sites?
Opinions aren’t shaped merely by ideological bent, but also by the quality of information we are getting. And if that information is flawed, incomplete, inaccurate, and partisanly aligned without our knowing so, then we may arrive at flawed opinions and conclusions.
@mooseburger: No where in that long screed did I see anything to support the claim that Moss burger is a recovering conservative.
Instead, we read 3rd person references to Republicans and conservatives which sounds a lot more like the same kind of crapola we hear from DEMOCRATS every single day.
I’m sorry Mossy, but when you attempt to perpetrate a fraud on the readers every other thing you say, no matter how reasonable, gets tossed out the window.
You lose your credibility when you lie.
Just ask Chris Dodd and Tim Geithner whether that’s true or not.
William
15 years ago
In his book “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich”, William L. Shirer writes that the night after Hitler was named Chancellor, he and his gang wandered around the halls of the Chancellory wondering what they were supposed to do. History repeating itself?
Shields up, eh Moose? LOL Well, like Wordsmith, all phasers are on stun.
INRE the Obama cyber hit squad “plant”, or you personally. As I said, I don’t know. Nor did I care one way or the other. But I well recognize the tactics of coming in with a stated former common bond, then launching into the reasons why you are now a reformed Obama/progressive supporter. But I will say, a genuine “dyed in the wool conservative” cannot go from small government, fiscal conservatism, and minimal government instrusion to the new Democrat progressive party unless they’ve had a political lobotomy.
But frankly, I’ve been addressing you from my first response as one who was *never* a conservative. Your history… factual or not… means nothing to me. Nor do I require you come clean about it. Your current philosophy, however, does.
And while you at it, may I point out that this is a forum made up of individuals, and not one collective amoeba? So suggesting there is a blanket presentation of opinions and “your tactics” becomes insulting and sophomoric. I realize you are residing in a party who loves to separate people in groups of financial class, race and gender. But that’s not how the world operates in reality. You’d be surprised on how many of us go at each other on forum, or privately, with our nuanced differences. This is true of all people… composed of varying degrees of political slants.
So please do not get swept into that mentality and decide to address “Flopping Aces” instead of individuals. You got a beef or zinger? Confine it to the individual(s) and not the community at large.
But speaking of tactics, you had a few interesting bulleted points that you considered “weak” as presentation about conservatism. Most notably:
#1 I have faith in this country, and it’s people to collectively make good judgments.
#2 I believe that the American people, when faced with a crisis and an election at the same time, tend to choose the right persons as leaders
You are taking the traditional conservative position that Americans, at large, are educated and fully capable at making their own decisions for their own lives.
Ya know? Prior to this election, I used to agree.
This means that while you believe Americans are capable of controlling their own lives, you voted for a man leading a party who believes exactly the opposite. A man and party who purport that a select few, via affirmative action, aren’t capable and need extra lifting over others… at our expense. And that government has a better answer for our daily needs… from health care to job creation.
It’s interesting that, at this point, you and I are now changing places. It’s always been a nagging thing in the back of my head that perhaps the Democrats were right. The nation is composed of idiots, incapable of making a wise decision for their futures. If ever anything pushed me more to the Democrat side on this belief, it was this election.
But then, I had to look at it realistically. People were making decisions. But they were basing that on “just words” and pretty rhetoric. Perhaps it’s not their fault they can’t find time to get to the bottom of the campaign slogans to the truth. That said, what do the voters *think* they chose for “change”?
Tax cuts. America is tired of the government confiscating their hard earned wages to spend on their behalf for anything but the most base of needs. Obama promised tax cuts. It’s a stolen conservative theme, and the idiot Republicans… because of past behavior… could do nothing to stop it.
It’s also not true. Because with the big spending comes dollar devaluation (and perhaps loss of the coveted status of the world’s reserve currency) Tax increases and inflation will be the result, as well as a major turning around of the nation’s lifestyle of which we have become accustomed.
But how would Joe and Josephine Blow know this? Are they stupid? Or victims of misinformation and undereducation on economics?
The other trick to the Obama promised “tax cuts” that appealed to Joe and Josephine Blow is that we’d get “free” healthcare and incomes would be more “equalized”. All this was going to happen by punishing those evil types who made the most money. (Also the same who overwhelming pay the nation’s tax bill…..)
There is no “free”. This is an ugly fact that Joe and Josephine Blow are about to learn the hard way. You can confiscate every penny those evil rich types make, and it will won’t pay for Obama’s promises. But how would they know this? It’s not what they were told, and it’s certainly not what was implied in campaign promises.
So I turn “Democrat” to your “conservative” and disagree. The American voter.. when faced with a crisis and the need to make a collective good judgment call on leadership… have proven they are dumber than a sack of rocks.
But I will cut them some leeway. It’s because they based that decision on incomplete and misrepresented information by those charged with educating the public – the media.
Pols say anything to be elected. Obama is no different. He sold the nation a bill of goods by promising a world that could not be delivered without “changing” the “world” we know. Our media knights in armor refused to question the economic realities, or the concept.
Americans thought they could get all Obama’s benefits, and still live in an America of opportunity. They will find they *can* get Obama’s benefits, but America will be more like Venezuela… and it will only last as long as the evil rich still make money, leave the country, or die. Because unlike Venezuela… America’s wealth is based on rewardable entrepreneurial spirit… not oil.
It is sure hard to lie about something when you are caught red-handed doing it. It is so sad watching him, but it so funny as well. I can’t see this guy lasting much longer. He is horrible.
http://franklinslocke.blogspot.com/
Gibbs: “I don’t want to repeat the answers I given…”
You didn’t give any answers.
Mike, you just made a Special Olympics joke.
Read carefully Dave… That was no joke.
I never said it was funny.
Think real hard and see if you get my point.
Dave: You don’t have a point. There was no joke here.
I stated a FACT.
Think about it.
Timewaster!
gibbs is not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, i almost feel sorry for him….nah. is it me or is gibbs starting to look more pasty and sallow? i think the pressure may be getting to him, poor baby.
Geithner is the next sacrificial lamb on the obama alter. The MSM is going after him
not because they suddenly want to report the news. It’s because they need a scapegoat
in order to protect their messiah. I’d say he will be resigning before too much longer
.
When the MSM turns on a dem there is ALWAYS an ulterior motive. A circling of the wagons if you will.
If things get uglier (and I think they will), I can’tt imagine Gibbs staying.
What makes someone want to be the White House Press Secretary, knowing most of time you’ll be spinning and serving as a shield for the President and Administration. It has to be extremely stressful, especially when everyone in the administration is a bungling fool.
But ultimately I don’t feel bad for Gibbs; he accepted the job.
Jeff V
I am a Democrat, voted for Obama, and I do welcome this kind of scrutiny and digging in to find out the truth. It is good for our country for the press to do their job finally, after the Iraq war and the lies and crap leading up to it, I say it about time the President and his Cabinet are held accountable, and I don’t care what party anyone voted for, it is the only way to keep our government as honest as possible. When the reporting is good, thorough, and conclusive, then it is up to the people to decide when they go to the polls if they reward or toss ’em out. Let the judgement of the voters always have the final say in the matter. I will say though, that as much as you folks here seem to hate Obama, he IS the President of our country, and the ONLY reason he is, is because of the failure to govern well by Mr. Bush and company. President Obama could never have been elected had the Conservative Republicans not been a disaster for this country in the eyes of the majority of the voters, even the Republicans would not mention Bush’s name during the Presidential campaign and were running from the leader of their party. So it is on the Republicans heads that the country voted for this change, as a rejection of the last President and his leadership. The media can cover stories, or not, go into a frenzy or ignore, but the American people are not totally stupid, and whatever the media or the Administration spin as the hot button issues, the people themselves get to make the only judgment that really matters as to what really concerns them. Most folks are about over the big time snipe fest that has been our politics for too long, and are more worried about their own real problems, and the sooner the Republicans can show some good solid leadership, offer sound solutions with less Lemming like partisan antics, the sooner the wise people in this country will embrace them as good and deserving leaders and this will impact the agenda Obama has set out. The current Republican strategy is a big time dead end, they have no compass and no idea where to go except farther to the right. The demographics are cutting against them and they seem like the last of the dinosaurs, they better evolve to the changing conditions or they will fail to thrive, or possibly become extinct. Just waiting for Obama to fail is a pretty lame strategy, whether you like Obama or not. Bush did about everything he wanted to do for 8 years and it didn’t matter if he was well liked, popular, or blogs and media were on him all the time, the man seldom was kept from doing the things he wanted to do. Why would you think that it will be any different with this President? He will move his agenda and get it done as long as Republicans continue to be weak naysayers with their only hope being that yelling socialist and hoping for failure will scare the people. We have heard them crying Wolf too many times now, and might not believe them now even if there were really a Wolf at the very door. The Republicans have been rejected and now own their failure, and the blame for the state of the Country. This fact is represented by who our Government is led by today, and the direction the Country is going to go….the Reagan era is on it’s way to being placed on the ash heap of history…..
Mooseburger,,, I’m calling BS.
The ONLY reason Nobama is the POTUS is due to a biased media that rode Bush or any other GOP president into the ground and the majority of dims want something for nothing..
The media is why we have a no talent brain dead moron for POTUS and an incompetent administration…
@bigpapa
Is this same bias media that let Dubya, his daddy, Reagan, Nixon etc win?
When a Republican wins it’s obviously due to their talent and views, when a Democrat wins – it’s not fair, let’s stamp our feet and blame the media. lol. Maybe if the Republicans weren’t in-fighting so much over their own candidate – they might have done better. This is what you get with a democracy and a free press. Maybe the media should be controlled and silenced by the GOP and only give the electorate a choice between Republicans and RINOs rather than allowing democrats and commies in.
Man, wait until there’s a world crisis. These guys are actually managing to make the Bush Administration look organized and intelligent.
Mooseburger, First off I want to thank you for the long and detailed comment. I enjoyed it and found it informative. Second, I’d like to point something out…
Obama has broken a HUGE number of campaign promises (not the least of which was a new direction in Iraq and a 16 month end to the war). If all the people who voted for him knew then what they know now (about how he would break promises and pledges that have cost lives, hundreds of thousands of homes, almost 2 million jobs, haven’t brought peace, etc)….if only 3.5% of the people who voted for him knew then what they know now, they’d probably change their vote, and McCain would win.
For all the times I hear “We won” or “I won”, I want to say, “BARELY” or “You wouldn’t today”
Obama’s a great American Idol contestant, but as a leader, he fails (because he ain’t leading anyone but Democrats), and as a manager…well, let’s go see him ask some of those 2 million people who lost their jobs since he became President. Yeah, I know, he inherited the bad economy from a lame duck President and a Congress where he was a man of great accomplishment; ie, he inherited the economy from budgets HE and DEMOCRATS created and controlled.
@GaffaUK: Why is it so difficult for you to admit that a media bias towards the left exists and that it has a profound effect on elections?
If there really were a level playing field Republicans would win nearly every election. Our ideas really are better and history has proven it.
Now, if you don’t mind, could you stick to the topic here and not attempt another Obamaesque distraction from the train wreck?
Mooseburger,,, I’m calling BS.
The ONLY reason Nobama is the POTUS is due to a biased media that rode Bush or any other GOP president into the ground and the majority of dims want something for nothing..
The media is why we have a no talent brain dead moron for POTUS and an incompetent administration…
Bigpapa,
I understand your frustration, and media coverage from either side of the coin can be called into question, no doubt. But, by making this argument, you are admitting that you and the force of your ideas, values, and history of governance are too weak to overcome the “Liberal Media” , that you are weak and powerless victims who can’t effectively covey to the American people what the truth is and why you should be given the reins of Government. I hear this from the Conservative side often, Barney Frank this, Pelosi, Dodd that, and so on. What you are really saying to the the American people with these arguments is that you are weak, can’t stop the powerful Dems and powerful Media, they are just too powerful. Basically blame the Refs for some bad calls is why you lost the game. Sometimes this is true, but most of the time, this is what losers do, not winners. By talking about things like “if the election were held today”, “if there was a level playing field”, only reinforces the point that you are making an argument based on your weakness as a Political force. While this sour grapes approach might make you feel better and keep you from taking ownership of your election defeats, the more you spread this line of thought, the more damage you do to your own cause, it plants the seeds in people’s minds that you have no power or ability to do anything about where the Country is headed except cry foul, oppose, and not get yourself back in the game. You will always have some Republican strongholds, but as a National Party, making arguments portraying yourselves as Losers being swept by the unfair forces surrounding you probably will not be an effective way to win the hearts and minds of the American people.
Hey to you, Mooseburger. I join Scott in saying welcome, and a thank you for a civil presentation of your opinions here. But I would make a request that your future posts have ’em broken down into some paragraphs. These old eyes often find it hard to focus when the content is run together all in one. Visually breaking it up is oh so helpful. LOL
Just a few things I’d like to comment on… and apologies to Mike for perpetuating an off topic subject. (Tho frankly, how much can you say about Gibb’s incompetence??)
You said:
I’d like to emphasize your key phrase in there…. …”a disaster for this country in the eyes of the majority of the voters”.
Perception is everything. And perception is created and honed by media reporting. When it comes to Bush, it’s eight years of perception founded on Iraq failure… oooops. Make that a success for the Iraqis (thus far) and the US coalition.
All news about that country, the war and it’s progress was bad news. When it’s good news, it dropped off the face of the earth thru most of last year. Despite the DNC and media oppositions’ best efforts, that country will be left to it’s own to govern as a free elected nation, and an ally to the US – just as Bush envisioned. And our military and coalition partners should be proud of their part in helping to create a new Arab democracy where a despot once held sway.
But this election wasn’t about Iraq… precisely because when Iraq became a positive story, it became a non story. So this election was actually about the Republican Congress since mid 90s, and their spending. However they needed Bush for the fall guy since they couldn’t afford to paint their own as the honest failures they are.
“Disaster” is too strong a word. Unless you are foolish enough to believe that our current economic situation, and place in the world started on Inauguration Day 2001, you might want to point out what “disasters” you speak of. Prior to 2001, the US was still not loved, jihad movements were revered as freedom fighters, attacks on US interests world wide had been increasing over three and a half decades, and the real estate bubble components were in place legislatively (CRA combined with Gramm-Leach-Bliley – all under Clinton admin)
Other than that, we have more allies in the Middle East now than ever before. We have not had another attack on US soil, as we have been engaging them on their own turf in other parts of the world. Bush’s legacy is primarily about foreign policy, as his domestic agenda was thwarted… which brings me to your other comment:
*Only* on foreign policy. Do you see the social security or immigation reform he wanted? Do you see the military tribunals for Gitmo detainees going ahead instead of being delayed for years by ACLU law suits?
Did it ever occur to you that the reason Bush got what he needed for the military during his term is because even the DNC knew it was the best course of action? At any time, they could have ceased funding for the wars, forcing the Commander in Chief to bring the troops home. They did not. Why? It was more convenient for them to make a political stink about morality, and attempt to use it as an election weapon. The same goes for the Patriot Act.
You seem to forget, the Republican only had a slim majority from mid 90s to 2006. After that, it was the Democrats slim majority.
Using Iraq for political election advantage fell flat by 2008. Iraq was secure enough to sign a SOFA agreement for troop withdrawal late 2008, which Obama is following up on.
But then the bubble had burst, and the economy blame card came along… and it is there that Obama and the Democrats won. Why? Because the Republican Congress were virtually indistinguishable from the Democrat spenders in Congress. When the economy takes a turn down, the majority office holders get the blame. But when it comes to the bubble, both parties and Congress as a whole needs to take the heat for their legislative enabling.
Obama won because he promised to be a conservative…. ala tax cuts. The problem with Obama is his math. He cannot implement all the spending he wants, and give anyone a tax cut. That $13 you see in your paycheck starting in a few weeks will be but a dream by a year or so from now. Your taxes will be higher than they were last year. And by the time the health care and energy cap and trade plans hit, not only will taxes be higher, but the costs of goods everywhere for inflation.
Frankly, I’m relieved that McCain did not win. No, I most certainly didn’t want Obama, but there were no good choices for me, personally here. My relief is because I’m not up for an additional four years of Democrat whining because they aren’t in power. For decades they’ve been patiently training generations of youth and American voters into believing a social and economic justice rule of law is the American utopia.
Which brings me to my next secret – I’m glad they have almost a supermajority. Because now, they have no one to blame but themselves for what they are doing to the nation with all this spending. And, unfortunately, it will take watching this economic agenda tear down the nation’s economic superiority in the world before they figure out this is entirely the wrong direction if you want the America of opportunity. You might say this political era is letting the kid burn his hand on the hot stovetop.
If you dig below the AIG diversion circus to see what’s going on outside of the media 24/7 myopic bubble, you will witness that this administration is endangering the dollar’s position as the world reserve currency, risking our borrowing power, inviting hyperinflation, inserting themselves as the moral judge of US contract law, and setting up a new authority to seize financial institutions in advance that they “believe” endanger the nation’s economy. I am mindblown at the immense over reach of this administration in just two months.
Is that power grab enough? Well hold on to your seat. Because even tho they have a supermajority, they are so bent on seizing power over the private sector they fear even their own party’s renegades . So they will evoke the “reconciliation process” to bypass Congressional debate and pass anything they want with only 51 Senate votes. This allows for seven of their own to oppose as a cushion, and still win.
This type of ramrod governance, and overuse of that procedure for national spending of unprecedented scale, should scare the snot out of any American.. regardless of party affiliation.
I understand that you think “anyone but Bush” is the correct decision. But for all the Republican Congressional spending, they are Ebenezer Scrooges compared to what’s going on now. You can’t whine about GOP spending, then support today’s spending and still retain credibility.
So I’m afraid you are viewing the previous eight years with blinders, and possibly legally blind to the next four. We can only be thankful that we have the opportunity to change direction every two and four years with elections, and not live under a never ending term of tyranny and idiocy.
MataHarley,
Thanks for the warm welcome, and I will try to a better job of staying on topic and stay away from run on sentences….it’s a bad habit of mine.
I mentioned “in the eyes of the majority” for a reason, because even though I really can’t disagree withmany things you said in your response, perception does become the reality you have to deal with, that is part and parcel of political life in this country since it’s founding, or any culture for that matter. My point is, that no matter how much anyone tries to shape the perceptions, most people will form their own based on what makes sense to them as it relates to their lives.
I think all sides are being represented, it just shakes down they way it does, and people go to “get their religion” where ever they feel most represents their way of thinking. You guys have AM radio sewed up, Fox News is no slouch, very high viewership, the internet is wide open to everyone. Maybe it is true that the major networks are liberal biased, so what? When you have a message that resonates with reasonable people, the force of that alone is very powerful, and that is where true power lies, not with control over media outlets. I voted both times for Reagan, like his policies or not, he was a true leader, more than anything else, that is what we as a country respect more than about anything else.
Yes, it’s true, I used to be a dyed in the wool Conservative for many years. Ronald Reagan used to be a Democrat too. I feel like he did when he explained his switch to the Republican Party: “I didn’t leave them, they left me.”
People see through the crap for themselves, bottom line: if one party is in power, does not admit ANY mistakes, tries to shape a perception that always makes them look good, and others look bad, sooner or later, they get called on the B.S. come votin’ time, it’s just that simple. If you can’t take ownership of your good AND bad decisions and policies, other folks will do it for you. This cuts both ways.
Obama is not perfect, he will make mistakes, Gibbs does babble and stutter and I personally can’t barely stand it myself. Obama uses the Teleprompter way too much, no doubt there is concern for where we as a country are heading.
That being said, we as a Country almost manufacture nothing,, wages for most folks are flat or declining, the middle class is in danger of going extinct. The economy now is based mostly on consumer spending, I hope and believe that Obama is trying to rebuild the economy, and you have to start somewhere. When the middle class has their credit cards tapped out, and have no money left to spend, it is almost like building a new economic system from scratch. It is not Socialism or wealth redistribution, it is SURVIVAL as a country. Let the man do what he was elected to do, keep an eye on him and call him out on his B.S., but for the good of this country we all love, don’t try to jam the gears of our country to a grinding halt because of your partisan idealogical beliefs. You are hurting the country as a whole, most folks aren’t buying it, and your energy would be better spent in a positive endeavor.
Why ditch the Press Secretary or Tresury Secretary? Why get rid of such great whipping posts???? Besides, good comedy is so hard to find these days.
Anyone remember Janet Reno? She accepted more blame and flak than humanly possible yet she was never fired WHY? Because the buck stopped with her and NEVER to the president.
These two gents make great shields for Obama. Don’t worry, the check is in the mail and they’ll be well compensated for their efforts.
Agreed the US manufactures almost nothing. Unfortunately, our departure from industrial giant began about forty decades ago, and has been steadily eroding.
I also agree that the Republican Party left me… a firm conservative. I think that is shared by those of us who view conservatism in the traditional sense of smaller government, responsible fiscal spending and minimal interference into our personal lives. Instead conservatism is misrepresented and demonized by the left and the media – erroneously portrayed as a party revolving solely around religious beliefs, hatred for the poor, and racial bigotry. The grassroots of conservatism are not “lost” nor confused. We have, however, been betrayed by those we sent to Washington and then tried to out Democrat the Democrats.
The Democrats have found their progressive/Euro-socialist leadership. The GOP is still looking for their conservative leaders. Obviously what we have now is damaged goods.
I don’t think we disagree that the economy needs rebuilding. But we do disagree on how much we, the taxpayers, are supposed to go along with the specific plans the Obama/Pelosi/Reid admin have in mind. I’m not apt to take the leap of blind faith that you are because I see repercussions that either you don’t, or you don’t care about.
You may see me as “jamming the gears”. What you see as “hurting the country” I see as preventing it from making a dire economic error.
But I’d rather grind the process to a halt and demand full debate on the repercussions than allow this administration and Congress to shove thru “emergency spending” that is almost guaranteed to lead to inflation and dollar devaluation. These particular policies and legislation are hard to reverse and recover from because their effects are far more encompassing than issues like Gitmo military tribunals and Roe v Wade.
I think most of us agree that spending is part of the equation. That said, the spending that’s occurring is too much, too fast, and too vague and most certainly fraught with waste and government red tape. Bills are being enacted without even being read. Most are knee jerk responses to problems they created with previous knee jerk legislation. And in fact, the policies are put into place without the process being defined… ala the Governors’ confusion over submitting deadlines and tracking job loss/creation for their stimulus monies. it’s like giving a car to someone who not only doesn’t know how to drive, but not passing on the manual either.
Gitmo is a perfect example. Obama sez I’m gonna close it… don’t know what to do with everybody yet, or how to prosecute the bad guys. But I’m gonna close it. (latest, BTW, is that they are thinking of releasing the country’less Gitmo grads here in the US…. oh joy)
I consider it part of the love of my country to demand they slow down, and provide open honest debate, bipartisan input and cautious, slower spending. I insist that before they make a law and policy, that they figure out the accurate costs of that, and put into place the way it’s going to operate. This is unreasonable?
You seem to consider my dissent on this spending spree an obstacle. Dang… I hope so. Tho two factors belie that statement. First of all, the GOP in Congress could take a two year vacation and not be missed since they are powerless to do anything but influence moderate Democrats. Secondly, Congress and WH totally dismiss public opinion, insisting they know best. Otherwise the stimulus and omnibus wouldn’t have gone thru.
We have always been a divided nation in opinion… and we will always be divided in the future. That is what keeps us healthy, along with the ability to often change our leadership. Our problem here is that we are a divided nation, ruled by a partisan empowered Congress and WH with an agenda to remake America into a Euro-socialist country.
I will not blindly throw my approval to all that’s being done by this administration merely to appease some bogus form of national “unity”. Just as the Democrats refused to support the former POTUS and our military – as was their right – I will continue to exercise my right to oppose this feckless spending.
If you were ever genuinely a Reagan conservative, Moose, I suspect you will be finding yourself in agreement witih many of us after a few years of economic fallout from this admin. Tho I’m trying to figure out how a disgruntled Reagan conservative can view the Democrat progressives as the better choice over big spending RINO Republicans.
Or perhaps you never were a conservative at heart, and prefer a nation comprised of social welfare nets and nationalized industries… from financial to energy. In which case your America and mine are two completely different nations.
MossBurger (He really should be a vegan) discovered paragraphs? Lovely!
I love it when these guys claim to be former conservatives.
I’ve got all my pictures and autographs with Reagan, Buckley, Goldwater, Ashbrook, Schlafly, Phil Crane et. al. How about you Mossie?
Or are you just one of those so-called conservatives who just talked about it and never did anything to advance the cause?
@mooseburger:
Just a couple of things from your previous comments that I am trying to square in my mind here.
Reagan switched from the Dem party because it had drifted to the left, leaving him behind in the process. That would have put Reagan on the right hand side of the scale in comparison to where the Dem party ended up, thus he became a Rep.
You say that the Rep party left you by drifting to the left, so, that would have left you on the right hand side of the spectrum in comparison to where the Rep party ended up.
Now you’re here supporting Obama, who is on the far opposite end of the scale from “dyed in the wool” Conservatism.
That makes no sense. None.
If you were ever truly a “dyed in the wool” conservative you would not sacrifice your values and beliefs in order to support Obama.
If you were ever truly a “dyed in the wool” conservative you would not be supporting the guy who wants to “remake” and fundamentally change the American system.
If you were ever truly a “dyed in the wool” conservative you would know and recognize what socialism and wealth distribution are and would be willing to call them out and never equivocate in that process. Yet you claim that what Obama and this runaway Congress have in mind is not socialism or wealth distribution.
If you were ever truly a “dyed in the wool” conservative you would know that the changes that Obama and the Democrats are currently foisting upon the American people are dangerous and destructive.
Furthermore, if you were ever truly a “dyed in the wool” conservative you would know that the changes that are being put into place in our country now have never succeeded ever in the history of mankind.
Your argument makes no sense. A “dyed in the wool” conservative will always have conservative values and will never deviate from them.
I’m not buying what you’re trying to sell.
Mike, Aye… I personally am assuming there is nothing in Moose’s past as a conservative. The dichotomy was obvious from the start.
I am also well aware that part of the left’s grassroots campaign is to come into conservative forums, representing themselves as reformed from evil conservatism, and reincarnated as an enlightened progressive.
Naturally debate would be a lot easier if they landed on the site and stated outright where they stand… ala “yeah! I think being another France or England would be cool”. But many prefer a more gentle coaxing, cloaked in mystery… seeking common bonds on which to build and convert. Remember the most pressing Obama cyber hit squad task at the moment… the quest to elicit blind support for the agenda, and eliminate (or discredit) any dissenting voices. This is the reason for Obama on the campaign trail, and the latest grassroots email call to action by MoveOn.org and Plouffe’s Obama campaign contact lists.
We all know the Alinsky drill and tactics. But perhaps many don’t recognize them if it’s not vile, overt, in your face force and rudeness. Even Alinsky’ites recognize – or are taught – you can catch more flies with honey.
All that said, Moose’s past political alliances aren’t the point. His (assuming male species…) current political philosophy is. Whether he’s an Obama grassroots entry here with a specific task, or is just plain curious and starved for genuine debate, it is on these philosophies we can begin.
@MataHarley:
A slight off-topic indulgence if I may. You mentioned the latest email call to action so I wanted to share this.
When my dog and I went out for our Saturday morning coffee routine, I swung by the local grocery store to see what was happening with the grassroots “Organizing for America” pledge project here in my little town.
There were only three people there, and they were the ones who were running the sign-up table with their Obama sign and their clipboards.
On my first visit I didn’t say much, just took in the lay of the land, and counted the names on the sheets. Nine. Nine people.
On my second visit about two hours later, without the dog, I counted the names again. Eleven.
On that visit, I decided to have a little fun. I began to speak with the three people at the table, asking them a series of questions regarding Obama’s promises, his actions since the election, and economics. I asked them about Cabinet appointments, taxation, wealth redistribution, the ginned up AIG outrage, and the monetizing of $1 trillion of debt.
Needless to say, the response was quite amusing. Some would refer to it as “deer in the headlights.” I call it “brook trout.”
After about twenty five minutes I had accomplished what I set out to do and moved on.
It’s really nice to see that the grassroots organizing effort is not working out any better this time than it did the last time when Obama called people to action. At least in this area.
If the comments in these two articles from the liberal San Francisco Chronicle can be used as a guide, it looks like sentiment and support is waning all over.
Terrific “man on the street” report, Aye… Brook trout? LOL
Yes, I think they’ll have a harder time prodding the O’faithful grassroots into action. Not because of any particular distaste for the agenda, mind you. I think most are just plain in the dark on the specifics, and most certainly on the unspoken repercussions with dollar devaluation and inflation.
It’s easier during an election campaign as it appears more expedient to many. Plus they get a tangible reward for their participation with election results by a certain date.
Frankly, when it comes to policy, it’s a harder road to hoe. No prize at the end which they can clearly claim. Not to mention they figured they already handed the WH to Obama, and a resounding amount of power to Congress.
Mooseburger,,,, Gaffa.
I wrote basically four lines and you two added and incredible amount of crap and things you “believe” I think.
I never suggested we should change freedom of speech.
I never said I was too weak to do anything about it..
PBO is a moron and if not for his constant passes by the liberal media he never would have become POTUS.
Simple statement but simply true..
Don’t put words in my mouth that I did not say nor did I think them..
@bigpapa: These lefties are experts at erecting straw men then projecting onto them all their prejudices regarding what THEY think conservatives believe. Much easier to do that then actually read what we say.
@Aye Chihuahua: In your neck of the woods I’m surprised they got 11 signatures. We might get a few more here on the coast but not many.
I’m surprised you didn’t get more of a rise out of the squawking socialist parrots than you did.
@MataHarley: I pretty much had Mossburger pegged as a phony but was doing my best to keep an open mind in case he/she/it wanted to provide some bona fides. Since I was present at the creation of modern conservative governance under Reagan I don’t take kindly to frauds.
Doesn’t something about the name “Mooseburger” strike you as a bit odd? Playing off liberal prejudices on Sarah Palin????
Anyway, I’m anxiously awaiting Mossy to return and prove me wrong. In the meantime, I’ll brush off my photos of me with the top dogs of conservatism just in case.
Perhaps you ought to show us where the liberal media was on the side of Dubya, dad of Dubya and Reagan, Gaffa. They won despite the media. Which probably brings us to Moose’s mistaken notion:
bigpappa, you sure called it right. That Moose could make this leap from your four sentences is creative progressive imagination indeed.
I don’t believe I have ever seen the media so blatantly for a candidate in my life as this past couple of years. And while that had a great deal of influence on the election, Moose has yet to understand that it was not conservative values of tax cuts (via Obama) and fiscal prudence (not Obama, but people figured they’d get everything on the backs of taxing the rich…) that lost the election. It was a mandate on the Republican Congress who piled their piss poor performance onto Bush as the scapegoat.
Mr. Mike… I think the Mooseburger has more to do with Moose’s northern US location, and perhaps his love for the alternative meat. But I could be wrong…. LOL
Wouldn’t be holding your breath for him to return and prove he was a conservative. As I said, don’t believe it, nor does it matter. I start from today’s philosophy.
Hey Guys, I have been in and out for the last few days, because my Mother is in the Hospital, I have read your responses, and I will be back if you will be so kind as to have me and give a response later tonite.
bigpapa – check my post again and you will see that at no point did I say that you believe in what I wrote, I didn’t say that you believe we should change freedom of speech nor that you were too weak do do anything about it and I didn’t any words in your mouth.
I put this to you – let say there is a left bias in some/most parts of the media – what do you propose to change that? And the bias cannot be that strong as plenty of Republicans have become President in the last 100 years.
It is amazing to see folks get worked up and pile on here, without any facts to back it up. You have assumed things already about me in your comments without knowing any facts about me. If some of you don’t like my opinions, that can be a healthy and fun debate. I am not part of any conspiracy or a plant, I just stumbled onto this site looking at different blogs with different viewpoints. I admit that I tend to rile a bit with some of my comments. I don’t think I have gotten personal with anyone here, but I have made comments about how I think your tactics are perceived, at least by me anyway. If anything was taken as personal that wasn’t my intent. All I was saying about the weakness of your tactics was that:
#1 I have faith in this country, and it’s people to collectively make good judgments.
#2 I believe that the American people, when faced with a crisis and an election at the same time, tend to choose the right persons as leaders
#3 If the Republicans are reduced to crying foul about the media being the cause of their losing the Presidential election, there is a fundamental weakness in their positions, policies, and/or leaders that the majority are not rewarding with their votes
#4 comments like “PBO is a moron and if not for his constant passes by the liberal media he never would have become POTUS.” only highlight the fact that if you had any better ammo than this to advance your conservative agenda, you would surely be using it instead of using the basest form of attacks like these. This line of “reasoning” not only demonstrates you have a very weak case to sell your beliefs, but also implies that you have no faith in the judgment of the majority of American voters. It implies that the American people who don’t agree with your beliefs can be easily fooled, and somehow only your beliefs hold the truth and wisdom needed, if the voters choose differently, then this is because they were fooled, not because their own judgment is a good or valid one… if only they knew the truth as you know it
Another thing, I never said that the Republican party going too far left was the reason I felt they had left me. Reagan DID raise taxes to fix Social Security, and Reagan DID grant amnesty to illegal aliens from Mexico, he took alot of heat from the Conservatives of his day when he started negotiating with the Soviets. He was less locked into an ideology than he was someone willing to find solutions and solve problems. He didn’t demonize his opponents, he could just smile and say, “well, there you go again” and win people over to his side rather than using a strategy of tearing down the other side trying to get people to turn away from them. Lee Atwater changed that with Bush 41. Lee atwater, on his deathbed, repented of the things he had done to Michael Dukakis. Wedge politics became the party platform, and a darn good tactic for that point in time. You may not like a candidate, but about the time that Max Cleland and John Kerry were turned into basically anti American Traitors to win an election, I felt something was very wrong.
You all may not agree with me, but to attack any Veteran who went to war for this country and has sacrificed for his Nation to win an election tells me more about your character than I want to know. It is beyond unacceptable, I would NEVER teach my kids to act that way, and those who can’t disagree without showing utter disrespect for someones service to our country will never get my vote, no matter what party or ideology.
It’s easy to mouth the words, and we all love to hear that too, support the troops! When your best Conservative mouthpiece, Rush Limbaugh, got out of the draft because of a big pimple on his ass, (look it up, it’s true) he has no standing to demean anyone else’s service. When Rush Limbaugh talks family values when his personal life has had troubles, addictions, when Newt Gingrich tells his wife laying in a hospital bed with cancer he wants a divorce because he has found someone else…..as Jesus has said, “you shall know them by their fruits”
The decision to use wedge politics regarding the War in Iraq was a stupid move, and caused 50% of the country to be cast as either “for us or against us” When we are at War, a wise leader would try to unite ALL America to the cause at hand. An unwise leader would and did drive a wedge between his party and the other party, casting differing viewpoints as cut and run, hates the troops, ect,. This is about as stupid a move and counterproductive to winning support for the war as you can get. Folks seem to forget that we had the No Fly Zone in Iraq, Saddam could not have farted sideways without a certain and strong response, he wasn’t going to do crap.
I don’t see any of the politics on either side as all bad or all good, and I don’t think I have to prove that I was a conservative or not to anyone. I think the opposition party has an important role and is vital to our politics. I don’t care if Y’all or some of you want to snipe at me for my views, or insinuate about some “other meat”, the personal attacks are just B.S anyway, some of you have made some real good points, I appreciate a good spirited civil discussion and even if I don’t agree, I can at least see your point and why you got there in a logical way.
Maybe Obama is no better, maybe you are all right about him. I see leadership, an effort to solve problems, and an ability to admit his mistakes. That is miles away from where we have been lately. Maybe he is the Anti-Reagan Reagan. What we’ve been doing for the last 20 years isn’t working very well anymore, and the knee jerk litmus test conservatism without room for different beliefs and opinions isn’t what I signed up for when I did look to Reagan as a great President. It has been twisted and perverted into something else. I hear it preached but not practiced. Those portraying our veterans as anti American are lower that a snakes belly. The Country and the media aren’t going to slow down for you, you are going to have to catch up with them if you want to regain leadership on a National level.
Thanks for letting me have my say here, the shields are up, so, send in the bombs……
Didn’t know that. Wow – figures.
http://www.snopes.com/military/limbaugh.asp
All mouth no trousers as they say. Maybe Michael J Fox should go round Rush’s place and see if he’s exaggerating his boil on his arse?;)
mooseburger wrote:
My phaser’s set for stun, only. 🙂
In your comment #10 you mention:
And subsequently talk about weakness by pointing out media bias (as in comment #16):
I agree with your belief that we gravitate toward information that appeals to our partisan nature; but I disagree with your belief that battling liberal media amounts to wasted effort and an admission of ideological weakness and victimhood. We’re only victims if we don’t fight back. People are only as knowledgeable as the information they receive. Much of public perception is shaped by liberal media, Hollywood movies and culture, and liberal indoctrination in the education system.
I live in California, and I’m hard-pressed to find people who listen to talk radio or even tune into FOX news; nor read political blogs, left or right. But they do watch CNN, the View, 60 Minutes, Bill Moyers, The Today Show, Jon Stewart, etc.; and tune into NPR for radio news, and open up the Los Angeles Times and New York Times. They get their opinions about Rush and FOX News from reading and hearing about them from liberally-biased sources.
As a possible example of the power of the press in shaping our perceptions, rather than merely having ideological differences regarding actual facts, I’m curious to know: Exactly what “lies” do you refer to in relation to the Iraq War?
There are good arguments to be made for being for or against the 2003 invasion; however, I think much of the credibility on behalf of the anti-Iraq War debate has been muddied by the “Bush lied” meme and by misunderstanding in regards to the case for war against Saddam.
I’m wondering if you are a victim of the influence of liberal media without knowing it; I have no doubt you are informed and have tried listening to both sides of a debate. However, I lose a bit of confidence on that when you talk of
Is this what Bush did? Engage in “wedge” politics? And if he did, was wedge politics unique only to Bush?
You seem to assume that because all of us have access to the information flow, that the power of mass mainstream media to ill-inform/misinform/ideologically influence is to be discounted or poo-pooed as somehow insignificant. But how often do we come across popular perceptions that can be factually proven as untrue by pulling out statistics or relying on factcheck sites?
Opinions aren’t shaped merely by ideological bent, but also by the quality of information we are getting. And if that information is flawed, incomplete, inaccurate, and partisanly aligned without our knowing so, then we may arrive at flawed opinions and conclusions.
@mooseburger: No where in that long screed did I see anything to support the claim that Moss burger is a recovering conservative.
Instead, we read 3rd person references to Republicans and conservatives which sounds a lot more like the same kind of crapola we hear from DEMOCRATS every single day.
I’m sorry Mossy, but when you attempt to perpetrate a fraud on the readers every other thing you say, no matter how reasonable, gets tossed out the window.
You lose your credibility when you lie.
Just ask Chris Dodd and Tim Geithner whether that’s true or not.
In his book “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich”, William L. Shirer writes that the night after Hitler was named Chancellor, he and his gang wandered around the halls of the Chancellory wondering what they were supposed to do. History repeating itself?
Shields up, eh Moose? LOL Well, like Wordsmith, all phasers are on stun.
INRE the Obama cyber hit squad “plant”, or you personally. As I said, I don’t know. Nor did I care one way or the other. But I well recognize the tactics of coming in with a stated former common bond, then launching into the reasons why you are now a reformed Obama/progressive supporter. But I will say, a genuine “dyed in the wool conservative” cannot go from small government, fiscal conservatism, and minimal government instrusion to the new Democrat progressive party unless they’ve had a political lobotomy.
But frankly, I’ve been addressing you from my first response as one who was *never* a conservative. Your history… factual or not… means nothing to me. Nor do I require you come clean about it. Your current philosophy, however, does.
And while you at it, may I point out that this is a forum made up of individuals, and not one collective amoeba? So suggesting there is a blanket presentation of opinions and “your tactics” becomes insulting and sophomoric. I realize you are residing in a party who loves to separate people in groups of financial class, race and gender. But that’s not how the world operates in reality. You’d be surprised on how many of us go at each other on forum, or privately, with our nuanced differences. This is true of all people… composed of varying degrees of political slants.
So please do not get swept into that mentality and decide to address “Flopping Aces” instead of individuals. You got a beef or zinger? Confine it to the individual(s) and not the community at large.
But speaking of tactics, you had a few interesting bulleted points that you considered “weak” as presentation about conservatism. Most notably:
You are taking the traditional conservative position that Americans, at large, are educated and fully capable at making their own decisions for their own lives.
Ya know? Prior to this election, I used to agree.
This means that while you believe Americans are capable of controlling their own lives, you voted for a man leading a party who believes exactly the opposite. A man and party who purport that a select few, via affirmative action, aren’t capable and need extra lifting over others… at our expense. And that government has a better answer for our daily needs… from health care to job creation.
It’s interesting that, at this point, you and I are now changing places. It’s always been a nagging thing in the back of my head that perhaps the Democrats were right. The nation is composed of idiots, incapable of making a wise decision for their futures. If ever anything pushed me more to the Democrat side on this belief, it was this election.
But then, I had to look at it realistically. People were making decisions. But they were basing that on “just words” and pretty rhetoric. Perhaps it’s not their fault they can’t find time to get to the bottom of the campaign slogans to the truth. That said, what do the voters *think* they chose for “change”?
Tax cuts. America is tired of the government confiscating their hard earned wages to spend on their behalf for anything but the most base of needs. Obama promised tax cuts. It’s a stolen conservative theme, and the idiot Republicans… because of past behavior… could do nothing to stop it.
It’s also not true. Because with the big spending comes dollar devaluation (and perhaps loss of the coveted status of the world’s reserve currency) Tax increases and inflation will be the result, as well as a major turning around of the nation’s lifestyle of which we have become accustomed.
But how would Joe and Josephine Blow know this? Are they stupid? Or victims of misinformation and undereducation on economics?
The other trick to the Obama promised “tax cuts” that appealed to Joe and Josephine Blow is that we’d get “free” healthcare and incomes would be more “equalized”. All this was going to happen by punishing those evil types who made the most money. (Also the same who overwhelming pay the nation’s tax bill…..)
There is no “free”. This is an ugly fact that Joe and Josephine Blow are about to learn the hard way. You can confiscate every penny those evil rich types make, and it will won’t pay for Obama’s promises. But how would they know this? It’s not what they were told, and it’s certainly not what was implied in campaign promises.
So I turn “Democrat” to your “conservative” and disagree. The American voter.. when faced with a crisis and the need to make a collective good judgment call on leadership… have proven they are dumber than a sack of rocks.
But I will cut them some leeway. It’s because they based that decision on incomplete and misrepresented information by those charged with educating the public – the media.
Pols say anything to be elected. Obama is no different. He sold the nation a bill of goods by promising a world that could not be delivered without “changing” the “world” we know. Our media knights in armor refused to question the economic realities, or the concept.
Americans thought they could get all Obama’s benefits, and still live in an America of opportunity. They will find they *can* get Obama’s benefits, but America will be more like Venezuela… and it will only last as long as the evil rich still make money, leave the country, or die. Because unlike Venezuela… America’s wealth is based on rewardable entrepreneurial spirit… not oil.