British Not Happy With Obama’s Diss of P.M.

Some of the things Obama has done can be explained by his world-view (Socialism). Others can be explained by his narcissism and naïveté. But, this makes no sense. Why be down right rude to the Prime Minister, especially a Progressive one? As I have said, a lot of what he does is purposeful and other is because he is clueless. The interesting exercise is to figure out which one is at play. I guess…this falls into the clueless category.

http://franklinslocke.blogspot.com/

blast, the bust was given to Bush after 911 as a gift for display to commemorate the allied bonding.

When Obama offered to give it back, since he didn’t want to keep it in the Oval Office himself, the British (rather appalled he wanted to give it back) came back and reiterated they like him to keep it.

He didn’t need to put it in the Oval Office, but could have had it on display elsewhere in the WH. Instead, he chose to slap our British allies with a return of the gift with little fanfare. Obviously, Obama places no import on it’s historic significance in time… and we know he’s not much of a Churchill fan.

His action was rude, and uncalled for. None of which surprises me.

Mata, if you could produce all of the story on that I would buy your explanation. I doubt Obama was going to send back a “gift” but something that was an heirloom lent by the British. And I am also sure the WH has “people” who decide what is the right protocol for such things. I tend to see this in the light of hysterics when it comes from people like mikeA and “The Telegraph” (BLOG). I would believe you Mata if there was more meat on the bones of this story. Frankly I am skeptical, very skeptical.

The murmurs began when President Obama returned to the British Embassy the Winston Churchill bust that had been displayed in the Oval Office since Tony Blair lent it to George W. Bush.

It was lent… not banished! It was not lent to Obama. Get a life mikeA.

First of all, blast, there is no ‘hysteria” on my part for Obama’s rude and insensitive behavior. Nor is his lackluster support for our current allies (i.e. Britain, Columbia and Israel, just to name three) a surprise.

Yes, the “gift” was a long term loan… renewed thru Bush’s second term, and offered again for Obama third term… sorry, freudian slip there with the possible Mr. Chavez… er Obama… multiple and endless terms in the future.

It did not come with the stipulation that it had to be displayed in the Oval Office.

However I commented on the return of the Churchhill bust before, using the somewhat tempered Telegraph article at the time to show the effect of doing so.

A bust of the former prime minister once voted the greatest Briton in history, which was loaned to George W Bush from the Government’s art collection after the September 11 attacks, has now been formally handed back.

The bronze by Sir Jacob Epstein, worth hundreds of thousands of pounds if it were ever sold on the open market, enjoyed pride of place in the Oval Office during President Bush’s tenure.

But when British officials offered to let Mr Obama to hang onto the bust for a further four years, the White House said: “Thanks, but no thanks.”

Diplomats were at first reluctant to discuss the whereabouts of the Churchill bronze, after its ejection from the seat of American power. But the British Embassy in Washington has now confirmed that it sits in the palatial residence of ambassador Sir Nigel Sheinwald, just down the road from Vice President Joe Biden’s official residence. It is not clear whether the ambassador plans to keep it in Washington or send it back to London.

~~~

The rejection of the bust has left some British officials nervously reading the runes to see how much influence the UK can wield with the new regime in Washington.

Now it is likely that Gordon Brown will offer a alternative symbol of Anglo-American fealty when he visits Washington to meet Mr Obama for the first time since he became President. Diplomats are still working to finalise a date for the visit which is expected in the final week of this month or early in March.

~~~

A British Embassy spokesman said: “The bust of Sir Winston Churchill by Sir Jacob Epstein was uniquely lent to a foreign head of state, President George W Bush, from the Government Art Collection in the wake of 9/11 as a signal of the strong transatlantic relationship.

“It was lent for the first term of office of President Bush. When the President was elected for his second and final term, the loan was extended until January 2009.

“The new President has decided not to continue this loan and the bust has now been returned. It is on display at the Ambassador’s Residence.”

So the Churchill bust, which has significant import to the Brits was just not up to the Obama snuff. As I said, he didn’t need to keep it in the Oval Office. It was, IMHO, a serious diplomatic slap to the face, and made our British allies queasy.

BTW, instead of the loan of British heirloom to honor the transatlantic relationship, I guess they couldn’t figure out anything that would satisfy the picky and rude POTUS. So they brought him a pen holder instead.

Considering all the spending bills he’ll be signing into law this year… hang in the next month or two… it’s probably appropo

BTW, since you have such an aversion to the Telegraph, here’s the Daily Mail’s version relating to the subject of Mike’s post; also noting the not so subtle snub by our arrogant POTUS.

mata: BTW, instead of the loan of British heirloom to honor the transatlantic relationship, I guess they couldn’t figure out anything that would satisfy the picky and rude POTUS. So they brought him a pen holder instead.

Considering all the spending bills he’ll be signing into off this year… hang in the next month or two… it’s probably appropo

hahaha….

No press conference, no lunch. For the PM.

What on earth is Obama thinking? Perhaps he fears to give another press conference because that would put the DOW under six thousand

It’s pretty obvious that Obama doesn’t care a whit about foriegn policy. That’s why he dumped state on Hillary. But at the same time, he also doesn’t understand it, and neither do his staff flunkies and so just look for more of this crap down the road.

Of course, for all the Telegraph’s bluster, the British are just auxiliaries at this point. Like everybody else.

GafficUK, if you dig in deep in the story you find that “If you are given a gift – it is impolite to try and give it back. The Queen gets all sorts of gifts which she either stores or gives away – she doesn’t make a point of trying to hand it back.”

From NYT: The murmurs began when President Obama returned to the British Embassy the Winston Churchill bust that had been displayed in the Oval Office since Tony Blair lent it to George W. Bush.

The reality was the bust was on loan to George Bush from Tony Blair and Obama returned it. If it had been a gift, I would say that would be a bit out of place, but it was a British Heirloom which was simply returned. Much ado about nothing.

blast is a troll. He is here just to be obnoxious.
This thread is absolute proof.
Ok, he may just be in need of some geodon.

It gets better:

First Lady Michelle Obama shows even she has a gift for the gaffe

It was all going so well. The dresses, the brains, the Vogue cover shoot – everything so far about Michelle Obama has left us wide-mouthed in admiration. It seemed there was no end to her fabulousness. Then Mr and Mrs Brown came to stay.

Like all good guests, Sarah Brown arrived bearing gifts for the children, Malia and Sasha. And they were really nice presents. A bit of thought had clearly gone into choosing them: Top Shop dresses (with matching necklaces) and a selection of books by British authors. Lovely.

Mrs Brown may have two boys but she certainly knows the way to a little girl’s heart. These were gifts chosen in the true spirit of present-giving: to please the recipient, not the giver.

In return Mrs Obama gave the Brown children, Fraser and John, two toy models of Marine One, the Presidential helicopter. Fair enough on the helicopter part, always a popular choice with small boys; but Marine One? It’s not as though anyone needs reminding that Barack Obama is President or that he has his own helicopter. Short of giving the boys Action Man models of her own husband smiting the evil forces of neoconservatism, Mrs Obama’s gesture could not have been more solipsistic or more inherently dismissive of Mrs Brown.
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Not only did she demonstrate that she spent approximately three seconds contemplating the needs of the Brown boys (having an aide pop to the White House gift shop for a piece of merchandising does not imply a great deal of thought), she appeared to show a most uncharacteristic lapse of judgment.

:: snip ::

As for Fraser and John, their parents’ trip to America will always be remembered as the time that “Mum and Dad went to see the President, and all we got was this lousy plastic helicopter”.

Hey GaffaUK, I’ll apologize for the dip stick in the White House.
I’ve always apprecitated the alliance with the Brits even at times when they were a bit too progressive.
Always liked the Margaret Thatcher and Reagan combination too.

BTW “I blast”,,,, do you always act like a dickhead ignoring facts you’re too lazy to look up????
I’ll bet you think it’s cute or you really think you “showed them”???

You’re laughable and quite entertaining as moonbats go..

@RightWingHippyChick

Yep I’m looking forward to the day when the unelected Gordon Brown gets booted out. It took at least 10 years after Blair’s first landslide for the Tories to recover. They chose several uninspiring too far to the right candidates – in Hague, IDS and Howard. This is warning to the Republicans. What might have worked for Reagan and Thatcher probably won’t work now.

Apparently, Obama’s grandfather was detained in a British prison and tortured by Churchill’s forces during the Mau Mau revolution in Kenya. I can understand his reticence to remove the Bust from the Oval Office, but he handled the situation poorly.

Obama should have explained why he was bothered by the bust, and then should have moved it to a different spot in the White House. I’m sure he could have found a spot that his family doesn’t use but where guests and others could view it. By rejecting the gift (and in the manner described), Obama committed a serious diplomatic faux pas.

I’m frequently amazed at the hollow echo resounding from his empty shell, and his wife isn’t getting off to a great start either.

So Obama gives this country a black eye – not unexpected from a bully.

Jeff V

ruaqtpi2: By rejecting the gift (and in the manner described), Obama committed a serious diplomatic faux pas.

It was not a gift! It was on loan to President Bush and was offered to be loaned to President Obama but the loan was declined. There is a big difference between a loan and a gift. If the bust was given to the USA, and was now property of the USA, that would be a big difference.

blast, you consistently miss the point of not only the Churchill bust… but the piling on by thoughtless, insignificant return gifts by the Obamas.

The British perceive the nonchalant return of the bust and the Obama reception of Brown less than respectful. Witness even Gaffna… one who is far from anti-Obama… finds their behaviour insulting.

*That* is the point being made here. You may parse words and intents all you want. But you still miss the larger picture. Obama prefers to snub our allies, and move closer to despotic regimes. He figures if we dilute our relationships with other western countries, the Islamic regimes will be more pliable.

He is a fool, and evidently has putzs as diplomatic advisors.

Hawk: Can you address those questions or will you repeat yourself like the broken record you seem to be now? Ball is in your court and the spot light is yours. Give us something original and non-repetitive IF POSSIBLE.

With all due respect Hawk, I was addressing the misnomer in ruaqtpi2 #35. Leaving the impression that a gift was returned is inaccurate. As to the whole affair being a purposeful slap at the British, I don’t see it. I see it as a perpetual bullshit storm.

Mata: blast, you consistently miss the point of not only the Churchill bust… but the piling on by thoughtless, insignificant return gifts by the Obamas.

Mata, do you think George Bush shopped for gifts for foreign dignitaries? Oh yeah, let me go out and shop while the stock market is tanking and we have two wars going…. Don’t you think their are protocol officials responsible for this?

So from what I read here, people think… the following happened: Obama decided, lets insult the British by sending back a “loaned” bust of Churchill, and lets see what they have on sale at Walmart for a gift? Nuts.

Can you say what George Bush gave to Tony Blair when they first met? Maybe the VHS versions of the same movies huh? Maybe a big cowboy hat? You have no idea of course.

Yep, there is a whole office in the State Department (along with many in the White House) who tend to these issues.

State Department Office of Protocol: the office is responsible for activities including the planning, hosting, and officiating of ceremonial events for visiting chiefs of state and heads of government, as well as coordinating logistics for the visits; managing Blair House, the President’s guesthouse; and overseeing all protocol matters for Presidential or Vice Presidential travel abroad, working alongside the White House.

What was worse… the DVD’s and returning something that did not belong to you or… White House Protocol Gaffes Insult Chinese .

Like I have said, much ado about nothing.

@blast:

Since when is a loan of something valuable not a gift? From Webster’s online dictionary:

gift (definition #2): something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation

The loan of the bust sure sounds like a gift to me.

By the way, I don’t see this as a slap in the face at all, at least, not an intentional slap. Nonetheless, it’s a terribly embarassing moment for the U.S. One would expect a bit more culture from an American President and his administration. Classless at best.

Jeff V

ruaqtpi2: Since when is a loan of something valuable not a gift? From Webster’s online dictionary:gift (definition #2): something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation

Why not look up LOAN which was in fact the issue we are discussing? From Webster’s online dictionary: loan -1b. something lent for the borrower’s temporary use 2a. the grant of temporary use.

What part of temporary to loan don’t you understand. When I get a gift, I know it is mine to enjoy and keep. When someone loans something to me, yeah, I can enjoy it, but ultimately it goes back… it is a LOAN.

blast, Bush didn’t consider it a slap, and that’s the point. It is the perception of a gift and/or “loan” (since you want to keep harping on that) that is important.

Because Bush had the class not to be insulted when Brown shunned his gift… which is far more thoughtful and personal than a set of movie DVD’s that Brown could order online at Amazon… makes it a non event. BTW, Brown is not even known to be a cinema buff of any kind… let alone “American classics”. Might as well have given the guy a gift certificate to Blockbuster.

It’s also a non-story that French Prez Chirac gave Blair many vintage bottles of wine that he never used, and never cared about. But Chirac didn’t feel slighted. Non story.

What makes this an event is that the British *are* feeling shunned. Do get this thru your head. Just because you think it’s “meaningless” doesn’t mean the British feel that way.

I repeat, this story isn’t about *YOU* and *YOUR* feelings. This is a story about how the British react to Obama’s cold shoulder reception for what he termed “was” a great American ally. Yes, they also noticed he used the past tense.

And the books given to Bush were about Churchill… something he very much appreciated, and a sweet complement to the gift loan of the bust.

Obama has no class, and his diplomacy advisors are sorely lacking.

I don’t think so, since Obama’s polling shows the vast majority of people approve of his Presidency.

Since when is 58% a “vast majority?”

Blast:

Since you continue to be a picayunish self-appointed Proofreader Extraordinaire, please allow me to point out that you were the first to comment on the use of the word gift, in your message (post #8), and I quote:

“… I doubt Obama was going to send back a “gift” but something that was an heirloom lent by the British.”

I know (rather, presume) that you can count, so you’ll recognize that my comment (post #35) and your rant (post #37) came well after post #8. So you can’t just hide behide some silly (and incorrect) assertion that the issue was whether or not the word “loan” was used properly. The issue is clearly whether or not the loan was presented in the spirit of gift giving. So, yes, a loan can be a gift if it is “something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation.” The bust was a loan, certainly, with a time frame understood to be as long as the countries remained allies with a special relationship. No doubt each country’s leaders expected (at the time) that the bust of Churchill would never have to be returned as long as the US considered Britain to be a respected ally and friend (and vice-versa.)

Did any of this occur to Obama? Did he stop to think about the ramifications of his actions, or is he too immature socially and diplomatically to realize that one’s actions (however small they may seem) just might have consequences? I honestly can’t decide if he’s too ignorant in such situations, or if he’s too damned arrogant. The Brits stand on ceremony, even if some classless Americans don’t recognize this or act appropriately. Either Obama doesn’t understand this, or intended to impress upon the Brits that he doesn’t consider them valued allies or friends with a special relationship. Either way, as our Number One ambassador, he did not do this country proud!

Obama needs to take culture classes, and perhaps his diplomatic advisors should attend with him.

Jeff V

ruaqtpi2
“35″ Apparently, Obama’s grandfather was detained in a British prison and tortured by Churchill’s forces during the Mau Mau revolution in Kenya. I can understand his reticence to remove the Bust from the Oval Office, but he handled the situation poorly.

Was Obama’s Luo grandfather actually detained and tortured by the British during the Kikyu uprising ?

Fact is the Mau Mau uprising was exclusively fought between the British and the Kikuyu tribe the rebellion did not spread to the other native peoples of kenya
Link:
http://www.lycos.com/info/mau-mau-uprising–kikuyu-guard.html

Obama’s Kenyan family are from the Luo tribe and their history states:
“Unlike many other Kenyan tribes, the Luo tribe were not particularly troubled by the arrival of the white Europeans and settlers. Given the location of their territory in western Kenya, they didn’t have their lives interrupted nor their land taken from them. They were not particularly involved in the Mau Mau rebellion, but helped create an independent Kenya through politics instead.”
Link:
http://www.kenya-advisor.com/luo-tribe.html

Did the British torture an innocent Luo tribesman thinking he was a Kikyu rebel or did Obama’s Kenyan family enhance the Grandfather’s history to make them more interesting to the young Barack Obama and Obama was too ignorant of Kenyan history to know any better ?
.

You Brits don’t understand the psyche of the ONE.
Wait for us chinese to visit the Whitehouse.
We’re gonna give Obama a bust of KARL MARX to put on his desk.
Actually we made one for Clinton(the male) with a condom dispenser in it, but after some consideration that plan was shelved.

When you press the Karl Marx bust on the forehead, it says: “Ohh, Barack, you are the One!”