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This shows Obama’ s naiveté and lack of leadership. This shows a tremendous amount of weakness to our enemies. Russia has more to win if Iran goes nuclear. Russia has been helping Iran go nuclear for many reasons and has huge oil contracts with them. You cannot capitulate to our enemies because they will continue to take and take. Iran and Russia now know they push Obama around. This undermines our allies in the Western bloc, like Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, and the like and leave Europe open to intimidation by a surging Russia.
He is a Carter or FDR and definitely not a Bush, Reagan, or even Kennedy.
Suppose the Bush White House let this situation fester for just this leverage. We clearly can do nothing with Iran without Russian help. Or maybe the missile defense system was a strawman all along. Just a thought.
@kathie: Do you really think Bush would play games with our allies like that?
And the idea that we can’t do anything with Iran without Russia’s help is silly.
SpideyTerry
15 years ago
Once again, Obama proves how much of an idiot he is. You can almost set your watch by it.
Funny, I believe Poland and the Czech Republic are our allies. This doesn’t sound like “mending” the alliances Bush “wrecked.” This sounds more like throwing two allies (and potentially more) aside.
Trusting Russia to do anything in our interest? Russia knows Obama is a pushover. Once they get what they want, they’ll betray Obama. It’s a given. Only a total idiot (aka Obama) couldn’t see it coming.
As for Iran, sure seems like Obama doesn’t care if they get the bomb. Are you paying attention, Israel? Be on the look out! Obama can’t be counted on for anything!
Remind me again why McCain would’ve been a bad president and why we needed “change” from the Bush years. Say what you will about the men, but I think it’s a safe bet that neither of them would’ve pulled crap like this.
Man, the 2010 and 2012 elections can’t come fast enough!
bigpapa
15 years ago
Holy freaking crap… NObama the wonder idiot proves how stupid he is everyday…
Either his “advisors” are this stupid or “he” is this stupid and choses to do these idiotic things..
What a freaking moron,,,
Trust the ruskies????? Let us see,,, 60 years of them trying to take our country and this crack head half white idiot is going to trust them?????
I’ll bet someone promised him a reach around and he fell for it…
What an idiot..
Gail S
15 years ago
Please do a little research on our President, he hates America. He is here to cure us of our prosperity, our integrity and our Constitution. He will be happy when we are in total supplication to the 3rd world countries. He sincerely believes that the U.S. is the only obstacle between those nations and prosperity, just as he sincerely believes that the middle class is the only obstacle to prosperity for the “poor and downtrodden”.
He honestly believes that we “stole” our wealth from have nots and that we now need to return our stolen wealth. Or, he simply wants to change our constitutional republic to a dictatorship. Just watch that census and the voter fraud funds being poured into ACORN.
Best wishes,
Gail S
ICanCopyAndPasteToo
15 years ago
02/12/2009
Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov on Wednesday gave the strongest indication yet that a package of deals could be in the works, welcoming U.S. Vice President Joe Biden’s call at the weekend to “press the reset button” in U.S.-Russian relationships and holding out the possibility that Russia would offer its military aircraft to the United States and NATO to supply weapons and troops to Afghanistan.
“Last April and May we discussed the possibility of using Russian military cargo planes to deliver [U.S. and NATO] supplies,” Lavrov said in Moscow. “Any other agreements are also possible.”
The offer of greater cooperation over Afghanistan appears to come with a few strings attached, however. It comes just days after Kyrgyzstan – which earlier this month was offered a loan of $2 billion by Russia – said it would close the U.S. military base on its soil, at Manas.
The base has been one of the key staging points for the U.S. and NATO military in supplying Afghanistan since the fall of the Taliban and Western intervention in the country in 2001.
“The United States and Russia can disagree and still work together where our interests coincide and they coincide in many places,” Biden said.
Ivanov, a hawkish former defence minister, said the Obama administration was prepared to “resume the Russian-U.S. dialogue frankly and openly.”
Lavrov’s offer appeared to move forward from an agreement on Russia supplying non-military goods to troops in Afghanistan, as it held out the possibility of military materiel travelling through Russia.
Russia’s outspoken ambassador to NATO, Dmitry Rogozin, said by telephone that the Manas base closure would not affect U.S. operations, precisely because of Russia’s transit offers.
It is said that you could hear Medvedev say “Checkmate”
I personally would feel more comfortable with a strong america, it would be better for the world economy and financial system. But the useless idiot you americans have chosen for POTUS is going against this.
Also, I would not want a nuclear armed Iran, even if are we doing business with these people. These people are crazy and can actually use those nukes on israel and that would be horrible for world financial markets.
You americans really need to do something about Obama. Not only is he causing a depression in the stockmarket but he is making the world a more dangerous place which is bad for us humble chinese investors, so solly, but we not jolly.
Vote him out next round and put Jindal there, for all our sakes.
I will even contribute money.
Earlier on when Obama got voted in, I said the market would tank, and then the US market would go down even to a lower level and stagnate there. Boy it sure is happening, and I really don’t like it. Looks like a decent recovery will only happen when you americans come to your senses and kick this ss-hole out of the Whitehouse and back to Chicago where he belongs.
What a horrible choice of president you americans voted for. Just horrible. And to think many voted for him just because he was black. Isn’t that just as dumb as voting for someone just because he is white???
Kick him out fast, guys. We can’t take his nonsense any more.
Old Trooper
15 years ago
Punk @ssed Socialist Community Organizer vs Old School KGB.
I’m not even taking odds on it. Obama will give away the store.
The days of America being a strong Ally are over for now.
Scott Malensek
15 years ago
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Sec State Powell try this approach in 2003/2004? And didn’t Sec State Rice start her run as Sec State w the same “suggestion” to Russia that if Russia backed UN sanctions and stopped helping Iran, then the US wouldn’t NEED a missile shield in Europe?
Lastly, there’s nothing to prevent the US from building and selling a shield to a western European nation, the EU, ESA, or NATO, so the entire issue of an AMERICAN shield is moot.
Yeah, it’s selling out imo, but let’s be fair. Bush tried it several times too. That doesn’t make Bush any better or worse, or Obama any better or worse. It does show Obama’s foreign policy ignorance (despite the present wisdom of Ole Joe Biden). Really, if one is President and has a Sec State and accomplished NatSec leaders…don’t you think someone in the room should say, “Um, sir…the previous President tried that, and we hated him for it. Granted, no one liked his smile as much as we like yours, but aside from that there’s no reason it would work on the third or fourth try.”
It’s hard to find complete parallels when looking at the past. While you can liken the situation to our responses to Soviet Russia post-World War Two, you could also look at the situation in a manner similar to that of Neville Chamberlain before World War Two. At the time, England was a total shit show with a weakened military from trying to maintain their empire and an economy that was in disarray. Had Chamberlain played hardball with Nazi Germany, it’s likely that the English would have faced total collapse. Instead, they needed time to reorganize their empire and to rebuild their military.
Today, you could liken our situation to the same one Neville was facing. The US military is significantly weakened by its attempts at playing world politics and the economy is in the toilet.
Again, history can repeat itself, but the question is, which item in history do you look at?
Dc
15 years ago
If Obama bows before him, Putin is going to play him like a cheap fiddle.
OLDPUPPYMAX
15 years ago
He is doing this because Hussein is a believer in the Communist way. Sell out Israel and the United States…that is who Hussein has always been. Why should anyone be surprised?
Good one! I feel the same way. The best we can hope for at this point is to take back some seats in Congress in 2010. If the economy is still down that prospect looks good. But if this recession has run it’s course by then Obama will claim credit. Since he’s talking anti-growth measures which punish job creators he may in fact extend the length of this recession in which case we will be in a strong position for 2010 and perhaps also in 2012.
@RNB Love Songs: Churchill documents the number of times the British and French could have stopped Hitler in his tracks without firing a shot. It had more to do with the will to confront the menace than it did with the empire being weak in the 1930’s.
And I do not agree that the U.S. military is weak now. It may be weaker in four years after Obama gets done gutting it but not now.
@Scott Malensek: Trading away the European component of missile defense might have been a valid diplomatic move before the political groundwork had been completed to deploy the system. But think again on what it would mean now to our allies in Poland and the Czech Republic if we pulled the plug after they went to the mat for it. What do you suppose they will say next time when we ask them to do something that is politically very difficult?
Also, what would this do to the emerging efforts to secure these nations who are threatened by renewed Russian expansion?
huh
15 years ago
Please do a little research on our President, he hates America. He is here to cure us of our prosperity, our integrity and our Constitution. He will be happy when we are in total supplication to the 3rd world countries. He sincerely believes that the U.S. is the only obstacle between those nations and prosperity, just as he sincerely believes that the middle class is the only obstacle to prosperity for the “poor and downtrodden”.
————
Pure George Soros! Read any of his books. Read his _On Globalization_ (2002). Soros wants to create SDRs, or Special Drawing Rights, that will divert US tax payer money to the Thrid World.
@blast: If you are incapable of making an on topic comment without a slap at Bush I will delete your comments.
Sorry to disappoint you, but this isn’t the blast hates Bush show.
pdill
15 years ago
Pure George Soros! Read any of his books. Read his _On Globalization_ (2002). Soros wants to create SDRs, or Special Drawing Rights, that will divert US tax payer money to the Thrid World
The other way to “reduce the debt of the 3rd world” is for the American dollar to “hyper inflate.”
Now that could make “Soros sense” as to why our sage Obama is running us into the ground in dept. Despite the fact we will need a wheelbarrow full of dollars to buy a loaf of bread, the “upside” of hyperinflaction will indeed be the indepted 3rd world countries.
These Alinsky types always do “backdoor” type things, betting on the fact most of us are too stupid (or brainwashed) to notice. Hyper inflation (which is almost a given as to how this is going to end), will also be a sure way to “bring down the US debt”–neverminding the consequences to the people who worked hard, built, and saved in this country.
One big welfare global world; here we come, which of course has always been the hidden agenda of global warming.
Blast: The money Bush gave for Aids in Africa isn’t even related. Because it was such a GOOD thing, MSM ignored it. Even Obama gave him credit for that one!
tarpon
15 years ago
Who expected anything different than ideologically driven crap.
The PRAVDA butt boys are bailing as fast as they can.
SoCal Chris
15 years ago
Slight interruption…I am doing it again, Mike! But, in case you’d like to know, Fred Thompson is on the radio right now on his new show at: http://fredthompsonshow.com/ .
Actually, right now it’s a break on the show, so playing music…no worries, he’ll be back…
I promise I’ll comment on this thread later!! 🙂
Now, back to Mike’s thread once again…
Missy
15 years ago
Of course he’s ready to drop the defense shield, so ordered by his new buddy Medvedev in a scolding sort of tone. Now Obama is prepared to say “to the American people”, our reputation is improving on the world stage. Only in the eyes of idiots.
Speaking at a joint press conference with Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero in Madrid, Medvedev welcomed the “positive signals” coming from the Obama administration with which he hoped to reach “agreements.”
“Haggling,” however, was not “productive,” Medvedev said.
If the Obama administration showed “common sense” in proposing a “common shield against all types of threats” and reconsidered its plans of a missile defence system which could target Russia, Moscow would be prepared to negotiate, Medvedev said.
@Missy: The statement by Medvedev rejecting “haggling” is a sure sign that haggling is going on.
Obama may be trying to set the stage for some big deal with the Soviets I mean Russians to bolster his prestige at the expense of long term U.S. National Security Goals.
It was rumored that his lost dissertation at Columbia may have been on arms deals with the Soviets.
Reagan could be trusted to make deals that were in our best interest.
I don’t trust Obama to do the same.
Tossing the Czechs and the Poles under the bus just to score some cheap political points and headlines could have lasting and damaging consequences.
It would be nice if the WH press corps could ask a few detailed questions on this issue. Let’s see if they do.
bbartlog
15 years ago
The other way to “reduce the debt of the 3rd world” is for the American dollar to “hyper inflate.”
You are misunderstanding the way that arrow points. Of course some third world countries have dollar debts which would decrease in the case of inflation, hyper- or not; but the principal beneficiary in terms of devalued debts would still be the US, which owes trillions upon trillions of dollars. To the extent that the people of the third world invested their savings in the perceived save haven of the US of A (and that extent is substantial), they would be net losers in the case of hyperinflation.
Agreed on the US debts with respect to hyperinflation. A lot of those countries would become huge losers as a number of them hold those US debts. Still, I think everyone would lose if the US experienced hyperinflation.
Yes, there were a number of times when Hitler could have been stopped without a shot but there were plenty of times where things could have been EVEN worse. My point there is that there are so many variables factoring into every case that it’s hard to guarantee you’ll be making the right decision in every case. You can use history as a guide but every case has it’s own unique set of variables and it’s a lot easier to analyze them in hindsight since hindsight is always 20/20.
pdill
15 years ago
I don’t think we disagree bbartlog. I was mostly making the point that the biggest losers in hyperinflation are the debt-free; the biggest winners the most indepted.
@RNB Love Songs: The reason I cited Winston Churchill’s history above is because he was right not in hindsight but at the time. He correctly forewarned about the steps the NAZIS took on the path to war and in all likelihood, had he been listened to at the time war might have been averted.
Churchill also understood the Soviets and particularly how they lied to get their way with Poland at the end of WW2. You don’t think the Poles, who saw their country carved up by both the Nazis and the Soviets have forgotten?
P.S. Not sure what you mean by how things could have been even worse, other than if the Germans had developed the atomic bomb first.
I have done a lot of work on this topic with a new piece coming out soon. but if you would like to scroll through pieces with lots of opinion but also filled with facts to use when debating missile defense AND specifically the USSR…
“Good one! I feel the same way. The best we can hope for at this point is to take back some seats in Congress in 2010. If the economy is still down that prospect looks good. But if this recession has run it’s course by then Obama will claim credit. Since he’s talking anti-growth measures which punish job creators he may in fact extend the length of this recession in which case we will be in a strong position for 2010 and perhaps also in 2012.”
I actually believe we will not see any significant recovery in US stocks until the market believes Obama is on his way out. With this present new decline in stocks down to a new low level(it’s still burning down and we may see more and sharper dips later–this downmove won’t end without some violent market movement probably), it will take even longer for a recovery, if we are using the market as an early indicator.
The only other thing that might presage a market recovery is if Obama gets it right, and he is nowhere going near that path now.
The WSJ, IBD and FT have many op-ed pieces blasting Obama, now a critical consensus is developing, and I think we will see even more of these critical media pieces as all those in finance who were dumb enough to support him start to change their minds and lose faith in him. I can bet you even Buffet is starting to get troubled by Obama.
I read last night on Bloomberg that Obama was actually advising people to buy stocks as they were good value now, and their earnings ratios were good or some blah like that.
This is incredible. He intends to raise all sorts of taxes and capital gains taxes, energy taxes, effectively 20%, then tells you to buy stocks. He thinks he is gonna make the market go up when he is actually crashing it. He is going to take money away from companies, punish investment, punish growth and profits and give it all to leftwing programs that don’t help the economy and he tells you to buy stocks because I am going to make the markets go up.
He is out of his mind.
When Obama tells america to buy stocks you are heading for some violent downmove, for sure.
@sigmundringeck: Scary how we are thinking along parallel lines. I was just working on a post citing some of the sources you mention.
I’ll link back to your comment as well as you are absolutely spot on.
huh
15 years ago
I hope this thread is not dead yet.
Re: Hyperinflation. It might not be the case. I cannot do it total justice, but if you have a lot of time, look at the battle between Mike Shedlock “Mish” v. Peter Schiff. They have been back and forth on the deflation v. inflation battle.
Right now we are in a deflationary death spirl. Think real estate, Dow, US Treasuries. Ben Bernanke’s worst enemy is deflation. The Fed and the US Tres Dept are at wits end trying to “re-flate” the system, but it is not taking. Look at their complaint that the banks are not using TARP moeny to create new loans. Look at the spike in US savings rate. The consumer is toast and is hunkering down. Yet, the banks are tight fisted with the bailout money. Why? Because they are insolvant! The bailout money is sitting in the case that the consumer/depositors go deep underground demanding their cash back.
The Fed and Tres don’t get it. They want another asset bubble to lift consumer spending and the GDP. Not going happen for a long time. Money has been flying out the risky stocks into safe US Tres notes. However, there is a bubble forming there now. If the money freaks out (don’t ask me how or why) and pulls out of the Tres notes it will not be going back to the stock market, it will go to cold hard cash in hand.
This flight to cold cash will cause depositors to demand their money out of the banks. Bec the banks were leveraged 30:1 during the housing bubble, they don’t have it. That is where your bail out tax money went to. The banks stopped loaning and are hoarding the baliout dough just waiting for the runs to begin. And they will. The first few depositors that ask for their cash will just be getting their tax dollars back!
The Johnny-come-latelies will get nothing. The FDIC is so poorly funded, they will not get their $100,000. This will cause MASSIVE civil unrest, to say the least. This is The Event Horizon. This is when deflation will shift to inflation. The Fed and Tres will try to correct by printing $100g’s for every stiffed depositor to try to make right. Those who never even had a deposit will flip out screaming discrimination and demand $100g’s also or else. The Fed will cave due to further civil unrest, and will print $100g’s for every American, legal or not.
There are two very large problems at this point. Number one, how long has the deflationary death spiral lasted? If it goes on for too long the GDP will be greatly reduced and American production will be minimal. Imagine nearly every factory shut down and moth-balled. The issue is the length of time our production ability needs to ramp up.
The Second major issue will be how long the athorities allow the civil unrest to persist. The longer it persists, the longer it takes for the angry populace to become docile consumers again. The printing of money directly to the populace and the reduced production abiliies of this country will be the hyperinfaltion rocket ship. And it will only cause a further civl unrest spiral.
IMHO, this or something like this is the senario that Bush’s Tres Sec Hank Paulson spelled out to Nancy Pelosi on his knees. Pelosi obviously did not take him seriously.
@Wordsmith: Funny how our lib friends who bashed Bush for seeing into Putin’s soul and getting snookered are about to go ga ga over the potential for a phony agreement of some kind with Russia.
I have a feeling we are in for a full smoke and mirrors job in the runup to that meeting between Obama and Medvedev.
One factor that may help the markets a bit is that the mainland(china) is actually showing some recovery. The mainlanders are also going to jack up their own stimulus plan, maybe even double it, and unlike Obama’s pork-laden plan, one gets the feeling that the chinese stimulus will actually do what it was intended to do–stimulate the domestic chinese economy. Some details of the chinese plan were only released a day ago and we can see that the markets have responded very bullishly to it, unlike how the markets respond to whatever Obama’s admin plans to do. This is disturbing the nice downtrend that Obama has created in the markets.
If the chinese stimulus works out as the mainlanders plan, it will further boost the early recovery in china and may actually drag up some parts of the global market, esp commodity demand, oil demand, gasoline demand etc.
Thus I am long in commodities, as I have been for some weeks, and in commod and oil stocks.
But for stocks related to financials in the US, I am generally not interested as I feel Obama’s policies will continue to be a drag on the US market, and if the US market does have a rally, it will be from optimism over china rather than anything Obama has done.
I reiterate that Obama will be a drag on the markets, while china will be a support. Which factor is stronger we will have to see. My guess is still that we won’t see any substantial upmove in US markets, but I am hoping for better markets in asia and china.
The US market will only be good when it believes Obama and his cronies are on their way out.
yonason
15 years ago
DON’T WORRY, SOON O’BUNGLER WILL MEET WITH IRANIAN MULLAHS AND MAKE EVERYTHING OK.
Paging Jimmy Carter….Paging Jimmy Carter.
This shows Obama’ s naiveté and lack of leadership. This shows a tremendous amount of weakness to our enemies. Russia has more to win if Iran goes nuclear. Russia has been helping Iran go nuclear for many reasons and has huge oil contracts with them. You cannot capitulate to our enemies because they will continue to take and take. Iran and Russia now know they push Obama around. This undermines our allies in the Western bloc, like Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, and the like and leave Europe open to intimidation by a surging Russia.
He is a Carter or FDR and definitely not a Bush, Reagan, or even Kennedy.
http://franklinslocke.blogspot.com/
Suppose the Bush White House let this situation fester for just this leverage. We clearly can do nothing with Iran without Russian help. Or maybe the missile defense system was a strawman all along. Just a thought.
@kathie: Do you really think Bush would play games with our allies like that?
And the idea that we can’t do anything with Iran without Russia’s help is silly.
Once again, Obama proves how much of an idiot he is. You can almost set your watch by it.
Funny, I believe Poland and the Czech Republic are our allies. This doesn’t sound like “mending” the alliances Bush “wrecked.” This sounds more like throwing two allies (and potentially more) aside.
Trusting Russia to do anything in our interest? Russia knows Obama is a pushover. Once they get what they want, they’ll betray Obama. It’s a given. Only a total idiot (aka Obama) couldn’t see it coming.
As for Iran, sure seems like Obama doesn’t care if they get the bomb. Are you paying attention, Israel? Be on the look out! Obama can’t be counted on for anything!
Remind me again why McCain would’ve been a bad president and why we needed “change” from the Bush years. Say what you will about the men, but I think it’s a safe bet that neither of them would’ve pulled crap like this.
Man, the 2010 and 2012 elections can’t come fast enough!
Holy freaking crap… NObama the wonder idiot proves how stupid he is everyday…
Either his “advisors” are this stupid or “he” is this stupid and choses to do these idiotic things..
What a freaking moron,,,
Trust the ruskies????? Let us see,,, 60 years of them trying to take our country and this crack head half white idiot is going to trust them?????
I’ll bet someone promised him a reach around and he fell for it…
What an idiot..
Please do a little research on our President, he hates America. He is here to cure us of our prosperity, our integrity and our Constitution. He will be happy when we are in total supplication to the 3rd world countries. He sincerely believes that the U.S. is the only obstacle between those nations and prosperity, just as he sincerely believes that the middle class is the only obstacle to prosperity for the “poor and downtrodden”.
He honestly believes that we “stole” our wealth from have nots and that we now need to return our stolen wealth. Or, he simply wants to change our constitutional republic to a dictatorship. Just watch that census and the voter fraud funds being poured into ACORN.
Best wishes,
Gail S
02/12/2009
It is said that you could hear Medvedev say “Checkmate”
I personally would feel more comfortable with a strong america, it would be better for the world economy and financial system. But the useless idiot you americans have chosen for POTUS is going against this.
Also, I would not want a nuclear armed Iran, even if are we doing business with these people. These people are crazy and can actually use those nukes on israel and that would be horrible for world financial markets.
You americans really need to do something about Obama. Not only is he causing a depression in the stockmarket but he is making the world a more dangerous place which is bad for us humble chinese investors, so solly, but we not jolly.
Vote him out next round and put Jindal there, for all our sakes.
I will even contribute money.
Earlier on when Obama got voted in, I said the market would tank, and then the US market would go down even to a lower level and stagnate there. Boy it sure is happening, and I really don’t like it. Looks like a decent recovery will only happen when you americans come to your senses and kick this ss-hole out of the Whitehouse and back to Chicago where he belongs.
What a horrible choice of president you americans voted for. Just horrible. And to think many voted for him just because he was black. Isn’t that just as dumb as voting for someone just because he is white???
Kick him out fast, guys. We can’t take his nonsense any more.
Punk @ssed Socialist Community Organizer vs Old School KGB.
I’m not even taking odds on it. Obama will give away the store.
The days of America being a strong Ally are over for now.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Sec State Powell try this approach in 2003/2004? And didn’t Sec State Rice start her run as Sec State w the same “suggestion” to Russia that if Russia backed UN sanctions and stopped helping Iran, then the US wouldn’t NEED a missile shield in Europe?
Lastly, there’s nothing to prevent the US from building and selling a shield to a western European nation, the EU, ESA, or NATO, so the entire issue of an AMERICAN shield is moot.
Yeah, it’s selling out imo, but let’s be fair. Bush tried it several times too. That doesn’t make Bush any better or worse, or Obama any better or worse. It does show Obama’s foreign policy ignorance (despite the present wisdom of Ole Joe Biden). Really, if one is President and has a Sec State and accomplished NatSec leaders…don’t you think someone in the room should say, “Um, sir…the previous President tried that, and we hated him for it. Granted, no one liked his smile as much as we like yours, but aside from that there’s no reason it would work on the third or fourth try.”
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-clinton3-2009mar03,0,2804433.story?track=rss
Clinton says U.S. diplomacy unlikely to end Iran nuclear program
@Old Trooper: Those days have been over for quite some time now unfortunately. 🙁
I will be keeping a watch out for their meeting on April 2
It’s hard to find complete parallels when looking at the past. While you can liken the situation to our responses to Soviet Russia post-World War Two, you could also look at the situation in a manner similar to that of Neville Chamberlain before World War Two. At the time, England was a total shit show with a weakened military from trying to maintain their empire and an economy that was in disarray. Had Chamberlain played hardball with Nazi Germany, it’s likely that the English would have faced total collapse. Instead, they needed time to reorganize their empire and to rebuild their military.
Today, you could liken our situation to the same one Neville was facing. The US military is significantly weakened by its attempts at playing world politics and the economy is in the toilet.
Again, history can repeat itself, but the question is, which item in history do you look at?
If Obama bows before him, Putin is going to play him like a cheap fiddle.
He is doing this because Hussein is a believer in the Communist way. Sell out Israel and the United States…that is who Hussein has always been. Why should anyone be surprised?
@sigmundringeck:“so solly, but we not jolly.”
Good one! I feel the same way. The best we can hope for at this point is to take back some seats in Congress in 2010. If the economy is still down that prospect looks good. But if this recession has run it’s course by then Obama will claim credit. Since he’s talking anti-growth measures which punish job creators he may in fact extend the length of this recession in which case we will be in a strong position for 2010 and perhaps also in 2012.
@RNB Love Songs: Churchill documents the number of times the British and French could have stopped Hitler in his tracks without firing a shot. It had more to do with the will to confront the menace than it did with the empire being weak in the 1930’s.
And I do not agree that the U.S. military is weak now. It may be weaker in four years after Obama gets done gutting it but not now.
@Scott Malensek: Trading away the European component of missile defense might have been a valid diplomatic move before the political groundwork had been completed to deploy the system. But think again on what it would mean now to our allies in Poland and the Czech Republic if we pulled the plug after they went to the mat for it. What do you suppose they will say next time when we ask them to do something that is politically very difficult?
Also, what would this do to the emerging efforts to secure these nations who are threatened by renewed Russian expansion?
Please do a little research on our President, he hates America. He is here to cure us of our prosperity, our integrity and our Constitution. He will be happy when we are in total supplication to the 3rd world countries. He sincerely believes that the U.S. is the only obstacle between those nations and prosperity, just as he sincerely believes that the middle class is the only obstacle to prosperity for the “poor and downtrodden”.
————
Pure George Soros! Read any of his books. Read his _On Globalization_ (2002). Soros wants to create SDRs, or Special Drawing Rights, that will divert US tax payer money to the Thrid World.
Didn’t President Bush send 10’s of Billions to Africa for AIDS? Was that part of this grand scheme.
@blast: If you are incapable of making an on topic comment without a slap at Bush I will delete your comments.
Sorry to disappoint you, but this isn’t the blast hates Bush show.
The other way to “reduce the debt of the 3rd world” is for the American dollar to “hyper inflate.”
Now that could make “Soros sense” as to why our sage Obama is running us into the ground in dept. Despite the fact we will need a wheelbarrow full of dollars to buy a loaf of bread, the “upside” of hyperinflaction will indeed be the indepted 3rd world countries.
These Alinsky types always do “backdoor” type things, betting on the fact most of us are too stupid (or brainwashed) to notice. Hyper inflation (which is almost a given as to how this is going to end), will also be a sure way to “bring down the US debt”–neverminding the consequences to the people who worked hard, built, and saved in this country.
One big welfare global world; here we come, which of course has always been the hidden agenda of global warming.
Blast: The money Bush gave for Aids in Africa isn’t even related. Because it was such a GOOD thing, MSM ignored it. Even Obama gave him credit for that one!
Who expected anything different than ideologically driven crap.
The PRAVDA butt boys are bailing as fast as they can.
Slight interruption…I am doing it again, Mike! But, in case you’d like to know, Fred Thompson is on the radio right now on his new show at: http://fredthompsonshow.com/ .
Actually, right now it’s a break on the show, so playing music…no worries, he’ll be back…
I promise I’ll comment on this thread later!! 🙂
Now, back to Mike’s thread once again…
Of course he’s ready to drop the defense shield, so ordered by his new buddy Medvedev in a scolding sort of tone. Now Obama is prepared to say “to the American people”, our reputation is improving on the world stage. Only in the eyes of idiots.
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/258257,russia-rejects-link-between-missile-defence-and-iran–update.html
@Missy: The statement by Medvedev rejecting “haggling” is a sure sign that haggling is going on.
Obama may be trying to set the stage for some big deal with the
SovietsI mean Russians to bolster his prestige at the expense of long term U.S. National Security Goals.It was rumored that his lost dissertation at Columbia may have been on arms deals with the Soviets.
Reagan could be trusted to make deals that were in our best interest.
I don’t trust Obama to do the same.
Tossing the Czechs and the Poles under the bus just to score some cheap political points and headlines could have lasting and damaging consequences.
It would be nice if the WH press corps could ask a few detailed questions on this issue. Let’s see if they do.
The other way to “reduce the debt of the 3rd world” is for the American dollar to “hyper inflate.”
You are misunderstanding the way that arrow points. Of course some third world countries have dollar debts which would decrease in the case of inflation, hyper- or not; but the principal beneficiary in terms of devalued debts would still be the US, which owes trillions upon trillions of dollars. To the extent that the people of the third world invested their savings in the perceived save haven of the US of A (and that extent is substantial), they would be net losers in the case of hyperinflation.
@bbartlog
Agreed on the US debts with respect to hyperinflation. A lot of those countries would become huge losers as a number of them hold those US debts. Still, I think everyone would lose if the US experienced hyperinflation.
@Mike’s America
Yes, there were a number of times when Hitler could have been stopped without a shot but there were plenty of times where things could have been EVEN worse. My point there is that there are so many variables factoring into every case that it’s hard to guarantee you’ll be making the right decision in every case. You can use history as a guide but every case has it’s own unique set of variables and it’s a lot easier to analyze them in hindsight since hindsight is always 20/20.
I don’t think we disagree bbartlog. I was mostly making the point that the biggest losers in hyperinflation are the debt-free; the biggest winners the most indepted.
@RNB Love Songs: The reason I cited Winston Churchill’s history above is because he was right not in hindsight but at the time. He correctly forewarned about the steps the NAZIS took on the path to war and in all likelihood, had he been listened to at the time war might have been averted.
Churchill also understood the Soviets and particularly how they lied to get their way with Poland at the end of WW2. You don’t think the Poles, who saw their country carved up by both the Nazis and the Soviets have forgotten?
P.S. Not sure what you mean by how things could have been even worse, other than if the Germans had developed the atomic bomb first.
NO, IT’S NOT “STUPID”
It’s malicious!
I have done a lot of work on this topic with a new piece coming out soon. but if you would like to scroll through pieces with lots of opinion but also filled with facts to use when debating missile defense AND specifically the USSR…
http://ci-report.blogspot.com/search?q=missile+defense
Take the poll, where do you stand?
http://www.polldaddy.com/p/1368960/
Or as some say ‘fool me once, shame on … shame on you. It fool me. We can’t get fooled again’;)
As per Mike:
“Good one! I feel the same way. The best we can hope for at this point is to take back some seats in Congress in 2010. If the economy is still down that prospect looks good. But if this recession has run it’s course by then Obama will claim credit. Since he’s talking anti-growth measures which punish job creators he may in fact extend the length of this recession in which case we will be in a strong position for 2010 and perhaps also in 2012.”
I actually believe we will not see any significant recovery in US stocks until the market believes Obama is on his way out. With this present new decline in stocks down to a new low level(it’s still burning down and we may see more and sharper dips later–this downmove won’t end without some violent market movement probably), it will take even longer for a recovery, if we are using the market as an early indicator.
The only other thing that might presage a market recovery is if Obama gets it right, and he is nowhere going near that path now.
The WSJ, IBD and FT have many op-ed pieces blasting Obama, now a critical consensus is developing, and I think we will see even more of these critical media pieces as all those in finance who were dumb enough to support him start to change their minds and lose faith in him. I can bet you even Buffet is starting to get troubled by Obama.
I read last night on Bloomberg that Obama was actually advising people to buy stocks as they were good value now, and their earnings ratios were good or some blah like that.
This is incredible. He intends to raise all sorts of taxes and capital gains taxes, energy taxes, effectively 20%, then tells you to buy stocks. He thinks he is gonna make the market go up when he is actually crashing it. He is going to take money away from companies, punish investment, punish growth and profits and give it all to leftwing programs that don’t help the economy and he tells you to buy stocks because I am going to make the markets go up.
He is out of his mind.
When Obama tells america to buy stocks you are heading for some violent downmove, for sure.
@sigmundringeck: Scary how we are thinking along parallel lines. I was just working on a post citing some of the sources you mention.
I’ll link back to your comment as well as you are absolutely spot on.
I hope this thread is not dead yet.
Re: Hyperinflation. It might not be the case. I cannot do it total justice, but if you have a lot of time, look at the battle between Mike Shedlock “Mish” v. Peter Schiff. They have been back and forth on the deflation v. inflation battle.
Right now we are in a deflationary death spirl. Think real estate, Dow, US Treasuries. Ben Bernanke’s worst enemy is deflation. The Fed and the US Tres Dept are at wits end trying to “re-flate” the system, but it is not taking. Look at their complaint that the banks are not using TARP moeny to create new loans. Look at the spike in US savings rate. The consumer is toast and is hunkering down. Yet, the banks are tight fisted with the bailout money. Why? Because they are insolvant! The bailout money is sitting in the case that the consumer/depositors go deep underground demanding their cash back.
The Fed and Tres don’t get it. They want another asset bubble to lift consumer spending and the GDP. Not going happen for a long time. Money has been flying out the risky stocks into safe US Tres notes. However, there is a bubble forming there now. If the money freaks out (don’t ask me how or why) and pulls out of the Tres notes it will not be going back to the stock market, it will go to cold hard cash in hand.
This flight to cold cash will cause depositors to demand their money out of the banks. Bec the banks were leveraged 30:1 during the housing bubble, they don’t have it. That is where your bail out tax money went to. The banks stopped loaning and are hoarding the baliout dough just waiting for the runs to begin. And they will. The first few depositors that ask for their cash will just be getting their tax dollars back!
The Johnny-come-latelies will get nothing. The FDIC is so poorly funded, they will not get their $100,000. This will cause MASSIVE civil unrest, to say the least. This is The Event Horizon. This is when deflation will shift to inflation. The Fed and Tres will try to correct by printing $100g’s for every stiffed depositor to try to make right. Those who never even had a deposit will flip out screaming discrimination and demand $100g’s also or else. The Fed will cave due to further civil unrest, and will print $100g’s for every American, legal or not.
There are two very large problems at this point. Number one, how long has the deflationary death spiral lasted? If it goes on for too long the GDP will be greatly reduced and American production will be minimal. Imagine nearly every factory shut down and moth-balled. The issue is the length of time our production ability needs to ramp up.
The Second major issue will be how long the athorities allow the civil unrest to persist. The longer it persists, the longer it takes for the angry populace to become docile consumers again. The printing of money directly to the populace and the reduced production abiliies of this country will be the hyperinfaltion rocket ship. And it will only cause a further civl unrest spiral.
IMHO, this or something like this is the senario that Bush’s Tres Sec Hank Paulson spelled out to Nancy Pelosi on his knees. Pelosi obviously did not take him seriously.
Hope ya’all have a good day!
Jules Crittenden‘s advice for Obama:
@Wordsmith: Funny how our lib friends who bashed Bush for seeing into Putin’s soul and getting snookered are about to go ga ga over the potential for a phony agreement of some kind with Russia.
I have a feeling we are in for a full smoke and mirrors job in the runup to that meeting between Obama and Medvedev.
One factor that may help the markets a bit is that the mainland(china) is actually showing some recovery. The mainlanders are also going to jack up their own stimulus plan, maybe even double it, and unlike Obama’s pork-laden plan, one gets the feeling that the chinese stimulus will actually do what it was intended to do–stimulate the domestic chinese economy. Some details of the chinese plan were only released a day ago and we can see that the markets have responded very bullishly to it, unlike how the markets respond to whatever Obama’s admin plans to do. This is disturbing the nice downtrend that Obama has created in the markets.
If the chinese stimulus works out as the mainlanders plan, it will further boost the early recovery in china and may actually drag up some parts of the global market, esp commodity demand, oil demand, gasoline demand etc.
Thus I am long in commodities, as I have been for some weeks, and in commod and oil stocks.
But for stocks related to financials in the US, I am generally not interested as I feel Obama’s policies will continue to be a drag on the US market, and if the US market does have a rally, it will be from optimism over china rather than anything Obama has done.
I reiterate that Obama will be a drag on the markets, while china will be a support. Which factor is stronger we will have to see. My guess is still that we won’t see any substantial upmove in US markets, but I am hoping for better markets in asia and china.
The US market will only be good when it believes Obama and his cronies are on their way out.
DON’T WORRY, SOON O’BUNGLER WILL MEET WITH IRANIAN MULLAHS AND MAKE EVERYTHING OK.
Stock photoage of what the meeting might look like.