Once again the GOP is licking it’s wounds from another election loss. Recovering from this loss has been the focus of conservative politicians and pundits. But what many pundits do not realize is that there is another battle raging in the country that the GOP has been losing for decades. The battle has been over the culture of America. And if you think the two battles are not linked, think again.
Conservativism and the Religious Right has been effectively demonized in the popular culture while liberalism has effectively been mainstreamed into our TV sets and newspapers. And politics is nothing but perception. The real battle is not in the polls but in the courts, schools, media, and popular culture. And the Republican party has surrendered too many of these battlefields to the enemy. This does nothing but help us to lose elections.
The Problem: Politics vs. Perception
To the surprise of many conservative Catholics, twice of many Catholics voted for obama then McCain, despite Obama’s very pro-abortion record. This trend, if it continues, could spell death for the Conservative movement. And why is this the case? Well, the image of conservatives have defectively suffered. It’s leadership has lacked the ability to define itself, and thus allowed the liberals to do it for them in a negative light and thus claim the moral high ground, This is relatively the same as having Saddam Hussein sit in the Human Rights commission. (which is not too far off from others that have been in that seat) So what is a good conservative to do?
First, we must recognize that your neighborhood Pravda media outlet is just as important as the electoral college and just as much as an opponent as the Democrats. Again, the image of the party has suffered at t it’s own hands, thanks to people like Foley and the abandonment of it’s Conservative principles. But does dealing with an organization whose primary goal is your failure really in your best interest?
And since we can’t force all the libs to Canada and give them weekly rations of granola and John Stewart we must get back to the grassroots and take back our schools. media, and even TV. How is easy. Ask Ron Paul, or Dean, or even Obama. The libs have shown how to do this for decades. Conservatives need to not be afraid to speak out, and need to get involved in their neighborhood schools and communities. And they need to start mentoring conservatives in the judicial and journalistic communities. Only thorough the grassroots will we rebuild our party. And then, and only then, can we make them defend their values and messed up logic.
Let’s make them defend how taking money away from business owners helps the economy, or how murderers deserve more protection then the unborn., or how weakening our military or our values makes our country stronger or safer. Ignorance is strength. Most people know that classic line from Orwell. But how many of them recognize this present day doublethink?
The lying media haw shown in this election that they are the Ministry of Truth. So the questions I ask the Republicans is this. Why deal with the media? If your neighbor said bad things about you and lied about you every chance they got, you would shun the neighbor, right? Well, why validate the authority of there media by continuing to deal with it?
The Consequences: More then Just an Election Loss.
There are two kinds of people, people who think government is the solution to your problems, and those that think individualism and hard work is the solution to life’s problems. The fact the biggest killer of people in human history your own government. might come as a surprise to them. But why would you trust the government as it is inefficient and has as one of it’s primary goals, to increase it’s own power and wealth. Perhaps they makes sense the Kool-aid drinkers who think Mat Damon is a good actor or who thinks a man who will unite us belonged to a racist church. Barack, like an Eddie Brickel song, says little of substance, but just looks good doing it, The presidency is not an episode of Survivor, but the average person knows more about Survivor or an America idol contestant then the platform of the man they voted for. I might give them a break, as it is easier to find Hoffa’s body then to nail him down on a position. It that much of a leap that we think a Latin American terrorist is a good role model that then we would thin k a friend of a terrorist would be a good president. But that is liberalism for you.
The liberal grip on our country will also extend itself into our foreign policy, which will only be to our detriment. We cannot win the war if we cannot even recognize the enemy or if we do not think the fight is worth fighting. And boy could that lack of foresight cost us. How many of our present problems are the result of abandoning friendly regimes and allowing hostile regimes to replace them? The price of an election loss can be more then a change in the division of red states to blue states. Liberalism makes nothing stronger, it only makes them weaker. If liberalism and socialism worked, Europe would not be abandoning it now and only embraced by fools like Chavez.
Why Culture Matters.
Social Darwinism :
The application of Darwinism to the study of human society, specifically a theory in sociology that individuals or groups achieve advantage over others as the result of genetic or biological superiority.
A long time ago I became interested in why evil people, why people like Beria can kill millions and still sleep at night. Human nature often is a study of contradictions as most of us share a little of the best and worst of human nature. But some of us are capable of things that make the rest of us vomit and still be able to enjoy a fine meal afterwards. So why do they do this? Some of the most frightening criminals operated on Machiavellian principles that were used to justify some of the worst crimes against humanity. One of these principles was Social Darwinism.
That is the result from a quick search of Social Darwinism on the net. Just to start off, I am not a fan of Nietzsche or Malthus, and remember well that Hitler used the theory to justify the evils of National Socialism. (By the way, is it not odd that anything National Socialism embraced is evil when on the other hand, the two bigger killers of humanity are Stalin and Mao, and liberals continue to embrace Communism and it’s child, Socialism.) Hitler was an evil man but he was right in one respect, culture does play a major role in the destiny of a society. (And no, in no way, does it justify what he did. He also thought the Treaty of Versailles was unfair, which it was, but was a lot nicer then the terms the Kaiser would have proposed if he won …) Any biologist would agree that an organism’s ability to defend itself and to procreate affects it’s survivability, so why would the case also be for societies, culture, and for sociologists. So with this in mind, I want to introduce a new term: Cultural Darwinism. The theory that the values and beliefs of a culture determine it’s relative survivability against other competing cultures.
So, is there anything to this idea? Have liberal values affected our country’s birthrate and ability to defend itself? Notice how on the average European birthrates have fallen in secular societies and in heavily liberal states in the United States, and only through immigration of non-Europeans has this decline been offset.
European Birth Rate Declines
The natural increase in Europe’s population is slowing and may start a steep decline within a few decades, researchers say.
Researchers writing in the journal Science said European population growth reached a turning point in the year 2000 when the number of children dropped to a level that statistically assured there will be fewer parents in the next generation than there are in the current generation.
Worried European governments are crafting natalist policies to nudge couples to have more children, from offering better child care to monthly stipends keyed to family size. But why are these policies necessary in the first place? I used to date a liberal feminist who demeaned her sister who chose to be a stay at home mom and once whished her mom had not “wasted her life” raising her. And to repeat what I said in Sacrificing Society on an Alter of Choice, how can a philosophy that celebrates abortion rather then motherhood not be destructive? On an alter of choice more babies have been aborted since Roe then all the deaths in the Civil War, World War I, and WWII combined.
Robertson: Europe committing “racial suicide”
Summary: Pat Robertson said, “Europe is right now in the midst of racial suicide because of the declining birth rate.”
During an edition of Christian Broadcasting Network’s (CBN) The 700 Club, host Pat Robertson said that “Europe is right now in the midst of racial suicide because of the declining birth rate.” Robertson blamed the declining birth rate on the existential philosophy of Jean-Paul Sartre, which, according to Robertson, “has permeated the intellectual thinking of Europe” and has left Europeans without “a faith in the future.”
from MediaMatters
Pat Robinson does go off on the deep end sometimes, but in this case he is right. And as much as I disagree with Pat Buchanan’s isolationist views, in a real sense this is a “Death of the West” if these trends continue.
But what about the other criteria of survivability, the ability to defend yourself? As a case in point, Traditional France lost a quarter millions soldiers in one battle, (Verdun) but secular France lost 9 men in one battle (Afghanistan) and considered pulling their troops. Secularism simply cannot defend itself adequately. For another example, let’s take a look and the dismal record of liberal Jimmy Carter’s joke of a foreign policy.
Carter once described Yugoslav strongman Marshal Josef Tito as “a man who believes in human rights.” Regarding North Korea’s dearly departed Kim Il-Sung, Carter found him “vigorous, intelligent, surprisingly well-informed about the technical issues, and in charge of the decisions about this country,” adding “I don’t see that[North Koreans] are an outlaw nation.”
He was similarly generous regarding Manuel Noriega, Romanian dictator Nicolai Ceaucescu and, of course, Yasser Arafat. He said of Ceausescu and himself, “Our goals are the same: to have a just system of economics and politics . . . We believe in enhancing human rights.”
Almost all of the humanitarian activities of the Carter Foundation abroad have been in direct opposition to US foreign policy. Carter called Bush’s description of Iran, Iraq and North Korea as an “axis of evil” was “overly simplistic and counterproductive.”
from Vcrisis
Carter was shocked when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan. Bill Clinton was attacked by Al-Qaeda repeatedly and did nothing until the Lewinski scandal. An now it is the likes of Dean and Murtha that follow along in this proud tradition. A culture that demonizes and handicaps it’s own military and views it’s enemies higher their own country is not only weak, but suicidal. Simply, how can you defeat the enemy when you cannot even recognize the enemy or even name the enemy? The lying media won’t even call some terrorists what they are, terrorists.
Culture does Matter.
Names are everything. A good name makes good ideas sound bad and bad ideas sound good. Take the ACLU. The ACLU was founded by Communists and is not dedicated to destroying Christian values in this country. But they cannot call themselves the Anti Christian Communists Union, because then they will not get as much money from corporate America. Liberals get away with being liberals only because they have standing armies to protect them. Without a standing army, liberals would have another name or two, namely the enslaved or dead.
Sadly, because of the defects in human nature, there will always be war. And those that believe that this will change, and that you can stop evil be being nice to it also goes by the name of liberal, but in another time they were called the stupid, or simple, or delusional. But it does not matter if one has a bad idea if you can make it sound good and demonize those that do not agree with you. For those that control names control words, and thus thoughts and society.
And that is the danger with out present day society.
Here’s a recent idiotorial from the Chronically San Franciscan by a Professor Robert Jensen, Men Being Men is a Bad deal: Guys Should Evolve Beyond Masculinity:
“Maybe this masculinity thing is a bad deal, not just for women, but for us. We need to get rid of the whole idea of masculinity. It’s time to abandon the claim that there are certain psychological or social traits that inherently come with being biologically male. If we can get past that, we have a chance to create a better world for men and women.”
Amazingly, in Jenson’s bizarro world, our worst social problems are not caused by an absence of real men, but by their very presence: “masculinity is dangerous for women. It leads men to seek to control ‘their’ women and define their own pleasure in that control, which leads to epidemic levels of rape and battery.”
The idea that getting rid of masculinity should be absurd to most anyone, but it is not to some that teach our young adults and influence their values.
Think I am reaching. Look at our present day TV and how it demeans fatherhood. It is the male, often a white male, that is the lazy and stupid one in the show who is always getting in trouble. And if you think fatherhood does not matter, just take a look at the effects of the death of the nuclear family with the African-American community The thought that a de-masculinized society will roll over in the face of an aggressor should seem obvious, but it is not to the permanently simple. Like with any species, what determines the survivability of a nation is it’s ability to defend itself and ability to procreate.
Secular Liberalism fails in both categories. Culture does matter, and now even more as we are in the mist of a cultural war as we struggle to win a very real world war. This, more then any other factor is why I changed my party affiliation from Democrat to Republican. Social Darwinism is real and will determine if the west will survive at all. For in the end, either the west will defeat secularism and survive or the west will stay secular and fall.
History is nothing but competing nations and cultures, And the winner of the contests of history is not always the most technically advanced, but the ones with the strongest will and culture. If our country is to survive as a great country, then conservatives must do more then worry about the elections and poll numbers. There is a very real war to fight for America’s culture. And there are battles raging every day. For the survival of Democracy is still an open question, and it seems unlikely that those who embrace socialism, multiculturalism, and moral relativism will be the ones to ensure it’s survival and ensure Democracy is more then just a footnote in the pages of history. For in the end, liberals are doomed, as they either will be defeated by the conservatives in the us for the soul of this country or they and their allies will be defeated by Islam in the growing cultural war.
Losing the battle will in the end lose us the war.
Blogs at Orbys.net
“But what many pundits do not realize is that there is another battle raging in the country that the GOP has been losing for decades. The battle has been over the culture of America.”
If people didn’t find liberal views preferable to conservative views then there wouldn’t be such a movement over to liberal views since the 60s. If you blame the media with left wing bias – then why is that? Is it because conservatives can’t afford to set up newspapers and TV stations, they don’t have decent commentators etc? No of course not. If you believe in supply and demand – maybe there isn’t a big enough mass market need to have such conservative views spouted beyond Fox, blogs and the pulpit? These views aren’t hard to find.
To me America is about individualism which I thought was a core tenet of conservatism. Individualism can be painted as bad and selfish but surely it’s a wish to live out your life as you see fit. If you step on the toes of others then you should get punished – in terms of breaking the law – or in the case of social interaction – you may get snubbed etc etc. Compared to war-torn countries and in the past – Western countries are pretty peaceful.
The problem lies when the majority wants minorities to act identically to them in their manners and views. That’s not individualism. That’s why the pilgrims left England. People should be able to have free speech and practice their religion etc. But of course there are limits which are enshrined in law to protect individuals collectively against violent actions from other individuals.
Conservatives have never in my experience been afraid to speak out. Is Ann Coulter and Rush shrinking violets? And when it comes to the view of Conservatives and Liberals – the truth often lies somewhere in the middle. Both sides distort the argument. Besides both sides have their loony fringes and both sides usually don’t agree within themselves. The problem isn’t so much left and right – but seeing a spectrum of political views which is more three-dimensional. If I’m stereotyped some of socialist Islam- loving European and an enemy then that’s BS – I’m a liberal agnostic Brit – quite different. And the terms liberal and conservative are often so vague as to be useless.
And I’m sure this annoys some conservatives but it’s also about perspective. I’m sure there are plenty of programs where there is a white male, that is the lazy and stupid one. But you are also, I suspect, more sensitive to that. How many shows is the white guy – the funny Alpha male. Do black people ever have gripes (legit or not) about they are portrayed on TV. Or women who are blonde, or if you are Jewish….Stereotypes exist. It’s not all one-sided. The demise of the West along with the white male is greatly exaggerated as to be myth. Of course there is the stupid over the top PC brigade. But looking at 70s TV shows and before – there are some terms which even you may think are out of date. Society moves on – and becomes more complex. And this is what upsets fundamentalist islamic society – they feel the West is decadent. Women who show flesh deserve to be raped or stoned etc. Whilst there are problems, like divorce rising, single parents with dads who aren’t there or don’t pay etc, I don’t want society in the West to go back to the 50s.
And what’s wrong with a secular state – do you want an organised state church??? Unfortunately some people feel that if you are not religious you somehow lack morals. But why does someone need a book to know what good and bad is – especially when the book has violence and contradictions. To stop the islamic nutters – you don’t try to make a society that they would approve of. You stick one finger up (or two) – and tell them if they don’t like Western values then **** off back to their own country. I understand you might get exasperated by those ‘libs’ who bend over so far back to accomodate some rubbish as Sharia law but they don’t represent true liberalism in it’s classic sense and they don’t represent me.
great post bravo bravo
Liberals like to control the leverage points of society. That way they can force their views on others while denying a voice to those who disagree with them. The MSM is a prime example of this. I have argued for years that Conservatives need to get into the MSM, justice system, and schools. Yet, they have failed to do this. Some have made the excuse that they would be denied the chance because they are Conservatives. That is why I advocate not announcing that fact. The left made it a point to hide their far left agenda while pretending to be moderate. The Right needs to keep quiet about their views or even pretend to be one of the leftists. Over time they can rise to prominence and This is war and if you want to take back America, it is necessary.
It is all about control and power, “my friends”.
Great societies fall when most of their population becomes lazy, stupid and weak. Sad to say, this is what is happening to america. Everytime america votes for a democrat, it weakens itself further.
It really grieves me, as a chinese to see this. But I guess it can’t be helped and is the natural progression of a society that is in decline. There is much to admire about america, but this is being slowly lost as more and more americans lose their senses. From borrowing more and more money from us, to increasing socialism in your society, you have forgotten what made your country great and have taken a soft and comfortable path to gradual dissolution.
Like the rich heir, who is wasteful, cowardly and useless, frtittering away the great inheritance his forefathers worked so hard and bled for.
Basically many americans are now like Paris Hilton.
A great post that I have been waiting for a long time. Bravo! Yes Conservatives do not take their places anymore. They are either shy or want to look like good guys. This is why they are tossed away by the system. Good guys always lose in the end. They try to be decent, they do not call a cat a cat. They do not take action against the MSM or anything else, they are afraid to be called tin foil hats, or adept of conspiracy theories, or whatever. They want to protect their self image so they become some kind of RINOS.
Look at McCain, the good guy, the bi-partisan, the moderate. He lost. He was afraid to irritate a few voters, but by doing so, he irritated a majority of voters. Till conservatives do not realize this, they will remain in the shadow of the liberals who will control this nation and the world.
One of the core tenets of this entire blog is that the Mainstream Media (you even give it your own acronym – MSM) control the microphone of public discourse. And the MSM leans left. And so do schools. And so do colleges.
Of course, this is true. For several years, I had Thanksgiving Dinner with a guy who was first a reporter for the San Diego Union Tribune and who is now a senior producer at NPR in Washington. He prided himself in his objectivity and, in truth, he as as fair and objective as anyone can be, given that everyone has individual biases and points of view. There is no question that he had a liberal point of view. He was a top student in a prestigious college and could have gone to law school or gotten an MBA from a top school. Instead, he went into journalism. Why? Because he wanted to make a difference. How many top of their class conservatives want to go into journalism (where the pay is peanuts) or education (where the pay is peanuts) or university research and professorship (where the pay is peanuts)?
You can’t blame people for having honest differences of political opinion. The people who live in Canada and vote for liberal parties are not stupid and/or amoral. Neither are the Europeans with their Euro-socialist governments. Neither are a great many US liberals either stupid or amoral. Barack Obama had a 20% vote margin over John McCain with voters who had post-baccalaureate college degrees.
Liberals tend to believe in things like environmentalism, “social justice,” secular government, and social safety nets to protect the weakest among us. People who believe in such things are disporportionately likely to go into education and journalism. And journalism is a mostly private enterprise — as Darwinistic as anything else.
Should government impose controls on journalistic endeavors? Should there be government-mandates for “fair and balanced” reporting? Should government censors review the content of newspapers, magazines, blogs, broadcast media? To the extent that government does get involved in this, it gets criticized — justifiably so. The fairness doctrine, for example, applied to Talk Radio is a really pernicious idea; as are other forms of government-mandates regulating political expression — e.g. McCain/Feingold and other limits on political speech.
The idea that conservatives are being shut out of the classroom and denied opportunities for professorships because of political views is vastly overstated. Again, it’s self-selection. It’s not simply social science faculties which are disproportionately Leftist, it’s even engineering, science, and medical faculties. Conservative physicians tend to go into private practice. Medical school faculties tend to be politically liberal, out of proportion to the rest of the medical community. And this has everything to do with self selection — what people choose to do with their lives (i.e. dedicate their lives to pursuing scientific breakthroughs or to improving public health and health care delivery vs dedicate their lives to providing fee for service medicine). It has nothing at all to do with some political litmus test: conservative scientists being denied faculty positions because of political leanings — what the university science departments care about is faculty getting grants and making money for the university and enhancing the university’s position and reputation.
Again, it’s all just social Darwinism, not some sort of collectivism, which determines who goes into journalism and education and who ends up controlling journalism and education. If conservatives care about their principles and want to see them advanced in schools and in the media, they should become teachers and journalists themselves and not complain at how people who have devoted their lives to become teachers and journalists go about doing their jobs.
Presumably, it’s precisely for this reason that “new media” blogs such as this do exist.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
@Larry Weisenthal: Larry have you been on a college campus lately. When was the last time in any major university did a Conservative speaker not get booed, had things thrown at him or thrown off of campus. This has been going on for years.
My mom wanted a conservative judge to speak at U of I Law School in the 90’s, but they would no allow him because he was controversial. But they will have people like Ayers come by and speak.
Does Ayers at any of his speeches get water balloons thrown at him. Do Conservatives interrupt speeches given by anyone.
My History Chair in college was a Communist. A retread 60 hippie that loved Socialism and was proud of it. How am I suppose to actually get a Master’s in this kind of environment???? Thank God I only had him for one class. My other professors were most likely Leftists too.
“Social Justice”. Straight from Liberation theology to written word. Man this is the most ridiculous cliche I have ever heard. Social Justice only makes everyone poor, just ask the Venezuelans or Cubans about “Social Justice”.
See Conservatives use logic, not feelings for their policies. Will it work, is it good for the country. Leftists use will it make me feel good, and who cares what it does to the economy, it makes me feel good. Just look at the banking meltdown. It was a a noble cause to get more poor people to buy houses, but in the long run it killed our economy. But it made Barney Frank and Dodd feel good trying to help the poor.
And the Republicans over the past decade or more have gotten infected with Liberalism (Leftist ideas) and have reaped what they have sown. They lost the past 2 elections because conservatives stayed home
Maybe the majority of Catholics are not just a single issue voter.
It simply proves that todays Catholics, Jews and Christians no longer deserve or will get any respect from anyone. Religion is dead. Time to burn your bibles and quit wasting time going to church and making yourself a bigger hypocrite. May as well drink and use drugs as the country is destroyed.
As of 12 noon EST I will no longer jump out of bed at 3AM or leave my home in sub-zero temps (right now in the south) to go help someone in need or someone who has a home on fire. I’ll drive by after 9 or so to see the result. Let the Obamacon’s who have promised everthing to everyone (free) take care of it.
@blast: NO it is that many Catholics have strayed away from Orthodoxy and are infected with Liberation Theology crap.
In no way does the Bible or any parables tell us that the government should take care of everyone, it is up to individuals. Not the Marxist Liberation Theology that was brought in with Illegal Immigrants.
If you do not believe in life, then get out of the Catholic Church. This is not a single issue, this is the foundation of what the Church was built on. Before the Church, it was acceptable to just leave a child you did not want on the street to die or get picked up by someone else. The Church gave value to human life, none of which was around before. And if any Catholic or Christian does not think abortion is wrong, why are you a Christian then.
Socialism and Christianity are at polar opposites, but don’t tell that to Rev Wright and his merry band of Socialists. They use Liberation Theology to cloak their Socialism.
You need to remove the word “not” from “The ACLU was founded by Communists and is not dedicated to destroying Christian values in this country.”.
The problem isn’t that conservatives haven’t fought hard enough, nor is the problem the liberal media. The problem is that conservative values somehow got off track more and more after Barry Goldwater. A lot of opportunities have been missed since Republicans took control of the Congress in the 90’s. Political capital was misused or wasted on silly things. Bush made similar mistakes during the start of his final term when he wasted his credibility on privatizing Social Security.
Despite all damage done, I think there is room for a reformed conservative party in the US. So don’t worry too much, I think we will see more movement towards conservative beliefs again. This time it will be as a result of a financial crisis that will last 8-12 years.
This crisis is an opportunity to get back to fundamentals. Conservative economics are the cure for the financial mess, but we probably need Austrian economics more than Friedman economics or Keynesian economics.
You want to know the funny thing? I was extremely liberal in the past. I supported Howard Dean, then John Kerry. Ron Paul changed my beliefs because of how he spoke with conviction rather than with cliches. He may not be popular in the party, but he has awakened a lot of people. If conservatives are going to get back into power and actually effect REAL change, they will need to reach out to people that don’t fall into cookie cutter religious descriptions. In addition, massive effort must be taken to open dialog with those who will soon feel left behind by the Democrats.
I blame Bush, and the Neocons such as Schwartzeneggar, McCain, et al.
They were allowed to co-opt the Conservative mantle, and the press was happy to push that meme. These poliicians were NOT Conservative, and ruined the Prepublican name with their bogus conservativism.
Most “Conservatives” near the seats of power stood by and watched, in hopes of getting a few crumbs off the table. You can see the result, and the rehabiitation of the Party must start with reinstalling Conservative principles.
First I did not state my position on Abortion, but I did say that most Catholics are not single issue voters. Additionally where does the position of capital punishment come into this augment of “life”. What about providing health care to the poor? Should they just die because they cannot afford to pay for medicines?
What are you kidding? Ever hear of the inquisition? The Catholic Church has over its history has probably been involved with the deaths of more human beings that any other “religious” institution. They have attempted to stifle science and technology for centuries, world is flat, earth at the center of the universe etc.
Ummm… Jesus did say “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” of course in his day Caesar was a dictator and now we have a choice to choose our leaders… And in the parable of the loaves and fishes, the people shared, God provided, we say God has blessed the USA, should we not share?
@blast: Are you kidding me????? The Inquisition???? Yous till believe in make believe. the Inquisition was not part of the catholic Church. It was part of the Spanish Government. Do not believe all that you read or hear about the Inquisition, it is a mostly made up by Protestants to get at Catholicism.
You are a trip. You have been brainwashed pretty good.
Stix1972, you and your Opus Dei friends can have that church and all those pedophiliac men in dresses and pointy hats (and those red shoes on the pope!) to yourself. Yeah, the Inquisition, and the papal wars, and so many executions in the name of the Holy Roman Catholic Church.
Oh, and you know nothing of Catholic Church history, there have been at least FOUR Inquisition movements: the Medieval Inquisition, the Spanish Inquisition, the Portuguese Inquisition and the Roman Inquisition. That does not include many lesser murders in the name of cleansing people of heresy.
You forgot to defend the flat earth, earth at the center of the universe and other forms of Church sponsored censorship.
@blast: Nice. Do you know what an Inquisition is???? they styill have them you know. What is it to inquisite. it is to ask questions. You got thru a inquisition if you get an Annulment. If you are in trouble with the catholic Church as a priest there is a Inquisition. They even have them in the US constitution. it is a court of law, the basis of Western Civilization.
And guess what those documents are that you aretalking about. theyaresecular government document, nit Church Documents.
Go ans spread you lies elsewhere.
Man what are they teaching people these days???? Mein Kampf????
And me in Opus Dei?? that is a joke, I hardly even go to Church on Easter and Christmas,
stix1972, I stated specific Inquisitions, historical events where many people were murdered by the church you say, “The Church gave value to human life, none of which was around before”
You are just plain ignorant of the facts around the Inquisitions of the Catholic Church. Read about Pope Innocent IV and the papal bull Ad Exstirpanda which proscribed in Cannon law (church law) torture and eventually ended in murder or execution.
Funny you bring up that… keep in mind Pope Pius XII, made agreements with Hitler’s Germany to increase the Pope’s power over German Catholic institutions, which prior were the most independent of call Catholic organizations in Europe.
@blast: Show me one original Document that the Church did any of the implimentatio n of the Inquisition. There are none. The Inquisition was done by the Govenrnments not the Catholic Church. there is no evidence that the Pope or any in the Church Leadership were involve with toture or killing. It was doen by politicians.
the Chuech of England killed more peolple tham the Inwuisition also.
Please dio not keep on prpogating these fallicies.
This i like pelple that think the Da Vinci Code was based off of history or the Cathloic Church was agaisnt sceince.
It is a shame that so many do not kow the truth.
@blast: You have got to be kidding me Pope Pious and Hitler Yo do have no clue don’t you???
Hitler killed many Catholics along with Jews, Mentally ill, Gupsies.
Pope Pious hepled save many Jews along with Catholic priests/
Where do you get you historical facts from???? Zinn The daily News, Huffppo, Daily Kos. Because none of them are actually true.
stix1972, no I am not kidding, this is HISTORICAL FACT. Why don’t you learn about the Reichskonkordat (the concordat or treaty between the Holy See and Germany) and what impact that had on the Catholics in Hitler’s Germany. It was negotiated by Papal Nuncio Card. Eugenio Pacelli (who then became Pope Pious XII). It stripped locally elected cannons (lay Catholic leaders) of their powers and further required bishops to swear an oath of allegiance to Germany.
You know nothing on these subjects if you can only offer “you got to be kidding me” or “you have no clue do you” comments.
@blast: Ah yes the pact that kept hiom alive. if he did not sign that he would have been killed. And he undemined Hitler throughout the war and saved many Jews and helped the Catholic leaders save many Jews.
You have to read between the lines and not take everything at face value. You need to actually think not just take the word of others. Look into it, and actually read the documents of the time.
You really do not have a curious mind do you??
Well, I don’t have any 12th Century manuscripts hanging around, but here is a link… maybe if you read some of it you might see that yes, the church did the torture, and turned the person over with the death sentence to be committed by the state (if they survived the torture). Then the state and Rome split up the individuals estate.
Here is another on Ad-exstirpanda (you know that papal bull that ordered torture and burning people at the stake.)
Where is your proof? Oh, get a spell checker.
@blast:
Ok do you actually know what an Inquisituon is?? really that is the whole thing. the Inquisituin is till used to day in the Church. it is to inquire. And the Poepe gave the gevernments the power to to inquire the people. They never condonde the toture and killings. the government dod the toture and killings.
i am suppose to believe the posting on a website????? Really you can do netter than that
How many Catholics were left in England after King Henry VIII wanted a divorce and left the Catholic Church. And when was it that Catholics got the tight to attend College again after King Henry VIII declared himself the leader of the Church of England.
Have you ever taken a real history class. Not one with multiple choice answers for tests.
Who wrote the Encyclopedia that you quote, who posted that ridiculous web page declared the historical facts. You need to dig deeper than that. Everything that is written has a bias, and most Encyclopedias are biased for a certain reason. Who was that Encyclopedia written for. It was definitely not written at the time of the Inquisition. So where is the footnotes to the original documents that say the Popes condoned torture.
When you take history calsses you have to think abiut these things. It is not just dates and places. It is the who, what, why. And the historical stuf in the background.
And there is no such ting as the Inquisition. They go on all the time and are still in use today. The term Inquisition as we know it was coined by the British to validate the split with the Catholic Church and the Church of England.
I guess you think the Crusades were for God and Glory also??? Which is another fallacy that is still taught to this day. The Crusades were to make it safe for pilgrims to visit Jerusalem without the Muslims killing them.
So this does not convince me or persuade me to any conclusions. It is a bunch of opinions in written form.
And sorry I am doing other things at the same time. And I do have a lot of typos, just ask everyone here. So did you understand what I was saying, so shoot me for s spelling error here or there.
Why don’t you just google “ad exstirpanda” the papal bull I have quoted or even better yet you can go look at the very biased (toward minimizing the Church’s cupability, as you are) Catholic Education Center’s admission and JPII’s apology.
Here are a couple of points from Catholic Education Center.
As to your change of subject to the Church of England or the Crusades, they are not salient to the subject you raised of the “The [Catholic] Church gave value to human life, none of which was around before.”
Now you can stuff your lectures about my education and instead of talking gibberish (and spelling like it too) you should look into the subject.