There can be no doubt that the American auto industry is failing. Numbers don’t lie, and besides, they admit it. The corporate leaders have been to Washington to “beg” for money several times now, and they’ve even brought along token union leaders.
American automakers HAVE FAILED
They failed to make fuel efficient cars
They failed to make cars of such high quality that buyers would choose American-made autos over foreign
They failed to make money (that’s why they’re in DC begging their political pawns for more)
They failed to impress the American people that they deserve more money (that’s why polls show Americans are opposed to a government bailout of the failing American automakers)
They failed to negotiate properly with their labor force so that the labor force is an asset not a burden to the final cost of a car
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again (with the majority of Americans behind me):
LET THEM FAIL
Oh, but autoworkers don’t like that? Too bad!
Festering animosity between the United Auto Workers and Southern senators who torpedoed the auto industry bailout bill erupted into full-fledged name calling Friday as union officials accused the lawmakers of trying to break the union on behalf of foreign automakers.
Hey, overpaid-union-autoworkers…do you know WHY Republicans are voting in line with the American people instead of with you and your struggle to keep the golden goose alive? Here’s a clue:
Union officials also accused the senators of retaliating for the UAW’s overwhelming support of Democratic candidates in federal races. The union gave $1.9 million to Democrats but only $11,500 to Republicans in the 2008 election cycle.
LOL! It’s not retaliation. It’s a matter of fact. You failed, and you didn’t pay off everyone. You only paid off the Democratic Party. Now, you’re accountable; workers are accountable for their expensive benefits that make American cars more expensive than those made by other, non-union companies here in the US, and corporate gurus are responsible for not making cars people want to buy (like ones that don’t cost $100 to tank up every week).
But alas, it really was NOT Republicans at large who blocked the bill as many Republicans voted FOR IT.
The point remains the same. No amount of bailout money, rescue money, campaign contribution, advertising, spin, hype, punditry, partisanship, or procrastination will avoid it: America’s Big Three auto makers (labor and leaders alike) have failed. Should they be rescued? No-the leaders aren’t changing the way they do business so as to make cars people want more than competitors’ cars, and labor isn’t willing to make what other car manufacturers’ labor makes in the U.S.
No concession/no changes=no moola
If Chrysler really wanted to change, they’d make nothing but a few really popular, uber high quality cars.
If GM wanted to change, they could take one of their brands like Pontiac and sell nothing buy electric Pontiacs from now on.
If Ford wanted to change, they could-oh wait…they dropped out of the “give us money” club and instead just asked for their credit to be backed. Hmmm, hats off to one of em at least.
QUESTIONS:
Where are all the tree-hugging eco-freaks, global warming alarmists, etc., and why aren’t they marching by the millions in demand that Detroit make more eco-friendly cars?
Where are all the paranoid Blood-for-oil nitwits, and why aren’t they all screaming mad that Democrats aren’t demanding electric cars, hydrogen fuel cells in every new Big Three car, and so forth? Where
Where are all the Obama supporters who believed his rhetoric about demanding more economical, fuel-efficient, eco-friendly cars from the Big Three, and have any of them even sent him an email demanding he get involved in the process?
Is it acceptable and rational for Barack Obama to NOT take a lead part in the bail out debate?
Lastly, why don’t these activists put pressure on the Democrats’ Congress to make these things happen?
Author of “Reparations and America’s 2nd Civil War
Reparations and America’s 2nd Civil War: Malensek, Scott: 9798864028674: Amazon.com: Books
the eco freaks and such aren’t screaming because its the dem led unions that are behind wanting the bailout. i love that their union is scared, they should be. i am sorry for all of the workers who will be affected if the industry fails, but i can’t afford to keep bailing out every business who made poor decisions while the unions had a gun to their heads. let them fail, then restructure and get the unions the hell out of there.
Because if these things happened, they’d have nothing to scream about. The only issue I have with this post, American cars are not junk. Why does everybody keep calling American cars junk? Nobody is buying cars because they COST TOO MUCH. And yes, they could get better milage without sacrificing size, safety, and performance. My grandfather, a Ford engineer, must be rolling in his grave over the state of the automakers.
The unions are passe, what once was needed to insure safe and productive environment, are no longer needed. The union now must be held accountable, the gravy train must end. I’m all for making as much as possible, but not at the expense of torpedoing the company. How long can you pay people that don’t work full wages. The CEO’s are also to blame for lack of foresight in contract negotiations vital to stability. Reformation is the only answer.
Bankruptcy is the only option that would allow the little three auto companies to restructure into profitable enterprises and preserve jobs. But even the bankruptcy-lite legislation that Senator Corker and the GOP backed was dissed by the UAW which knows they can count on Democrats in a few weeks time to throw billions more taxpayer dollars down this rat hole.
Billions more will be wasted because too few Democrats have the political courage to stand up and buck the union.
And the longer we continue to put these billion dollar bandaids on this patient the more painful the ultimate solution is going to be for everyone, not just auto workers.
I have yet to hear one viable alternative to the Corker legislation. Only attacks cut and pasted from UAW talking points.
Throwing money at this problem won’t make it go away and it will only make it worse in the long run.
What a shame most Democrats are too cowardly to admit that. They know it’s true.
Okay, Mr. Scott. I have to disagree with a portion.
The big three *do* have some fuel efficient cars. They, however, are more expensive and less reliable than the Toyotas and Hondas. Must be that UAW/EPA/OSHA extra costs tagged on when you discuss over $70 per hour per work (with all benefits, and NOT including the retiree payments) vs the $43 per hour for the Toyotas i.e.
Secondly, they DO make cars that people want to buy. Ford 150 is the quintessential truck that many rely on. Since it’s their best seller, they make them. While I like the Tundra, it just doesn’t compare for heavy duty work.
They failed to make money because of the cost of doing business between the competition, and their UAW/OSHA/EPA regulations…. also the US corportate tax structure. The others have other factories to make up deficients in other countries.
Other than that – I agree. They should file bankruptcy and restructure in a more profitable manner… and WITHOUT the Congressional auto czar dictating production and price specifics.
jainphx;
LOL have to agree with you on that.
I have to laugh at the continued UAW shenanigans in this mess. The link to http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Angry-UAW-members-lash-out-at-apf-13823458.html was choice USDA reasons why they are falling on their communist collective asses:
What UAW misses in all this is; the union concept is and always was an inherently socialist/Marxist concept, not an “American” concept. And that is why it is doomed to failure in a capitalistic society. “Giving the workers power over the means of production,” doesn’t help capitalism, it is a corrupting influence. “A strong labor movement isn’t good for America.” is absolutely the correct position for conservatism to take. Unionization runs counter to Conservatism and is not something they should expect Republican and other conservatives to accept or endorse. I’m sure if you examine that “$11,500 to Republicans in the 2008 election cycle” you would find they were all RINOs.
I’ve been both an employee and on the management sides of business in my employment in and out of the military and had an opportunity to study the pros and cons of unionization in the workplace. The benefits of unionization are measly compared to the prices paid by both employees and management. Unions are the equivalent of do nothing “Big Government” bureaucratic entities in the business world. There are better processes that can be used out there to improve a work environment such as the introduction of “quality initiatives, empowerment, and risk management” that allow employees to “buy into their processes” to improve efficiency, production, processes, the product, job satisfaction and managers to do so more effectively. There are a variety of other aspects within that are more valuable and viable to those on both sides of the desk than union interference. Where one works smarter, not harder. Similar concepts have even found their way into how our military does business (Although not all were effective. It is a very different type of business after all.). Yet, these are often the same types of tools used by these “foreign” businesses that make them so competitive and unionized models of business obsolete.
Now the unions are reaping the rewards for what they have sown via their own greed over the years. If they want to keep their jobs they have to give up some concessions to allow their meal tickets to stay in business and remain competitive. They are stubbornly unwilling to do so? Then so be it, they deserve to be out of work. The declining membership numbers show that employees are beginning to wise up that their unions are outmoded, corrupt, hungry, and dying dinosaurs in today’s business world.
I don’t understand what Bush thought he could gain by pandering to the Dem & UAW following this legislation defeat by coming to their rescue with possibly illegally diverting funds from the previous bail-out bill if in fact the following comment was correct.
It mystifies me as to what favors if any, the Dems did or have promised Bush to justify this, if it happens, as it should anger the GOP for marginalizing their members in Congress.
Rocky–Bush is no fool. He knows (as does Paulson) that when it comes to times like these, the Feds cannot just stand back and take the “it will correct itself” approach.
That was the approach after the ’29 crash and we all know where that took us.
Richard,
Please view this great video done by TVO a Canadian Ontario television program: The agenda with Steve Paikin. They are comparing the New deal with the Old deal in times of Roosevelt and Hoover. On the panel is Russ Robert, David Kennedy, Eric Lascelles Leo Ohanion and Joe Martin.
The video is 35 minutes long, but you sure do get a clear idea from all angles. It is a MUST.
Revisiting the new deal
http://www.tvo.org/cfmx/tvoorg/theagenda/index.cfm?page_id=41
Just go on that link and click on the video: Revisiting the new deal ( It was aired last night, 12/10/2008). Lots of insights in this video.
I don’t disagree with most of what has been written here about the American auto industry; there are, however, some important caveats, which I’ve noted before and therefore won’t explain here.
But I find something very disconcerting. There is so much derision and animosity directed against the union and their hourly employee members, who are basically just punch clock working stiffs. As if these guys are the villains who have wrecked our economy.
In contrast, there was virtually nothing at all written about the grotesque mismanagement of the financial industry. This latter industry, or rather the Masters of the Universe running this industry, are the true villains at the heart of the financial meltdown. Yet they’ve been given a virtual free pass by the FA bloggers and commentators, who instead preferred to assign the blame to the likes of Barney Frank, who, along with other politicians, had little or nothing to do with the root cause of the meltdown, which was, as stated, grotesque mismanagement throughout the financial industry, from Allan Greeenspan through the financial sector CEOs and their management teams.
There have been assertive demands for fundamental restructuring of the auto industry, yet only muted or absent calls for fundamental restructuring of the financial industry, which has received its massive bailouts with virtually no strings attached.
Cognitive dissonance.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
Richard;
We’ve already discussed the financial side of this in other threads. Failure to bail-out GM, Ford, & Chrysler would NOT have caused a market crash. Even if those companies were totally eliminated, which would not have happened, there have been numerous other car companies that were dissolved before. Remember, Nash, Willy’s, Desoto, Studebaker, Delorean, and others to numerous to mention? Times change and if businesses are too stubborn or stupid to change, then they are doomed to failure and deserve to do so. Business is business and nostalgia is not going to save their hides, nor should it. BTW, nor are they the only source for vehicles.
What’s more, giving them the money does not help their recovery in any way. Throwing more money down the drain is not a solution, it only prolongs the inevitable. With no bailout, it forces those corporations to use bankruptcy as a tool to rework their financial structures and commitments, it would have unlocked their commitments to the ridiculously high burden placed upon them by the UAW, and forced the UAW into taking concessions they will not otherwise agree to and renegotiate for more reasonable benefit packages than those that were dragging down those corporations. All Bush handing over that money does is through good money after bad. It it’s like plopping a bandaid on a severed carotid artery. Those companies are bleeding money to death. Nor is it an investment that the taxpayers can expect to ever be repaid, which was a required part of the Wall Street bail-out. Those corporations MUST restructure, period. I may have prefer Bush to the candidate the Dems offered up in 2000 & 2004 as a lesser of evils, but IMO, his going behind the backs of Republican’s in Congress to do such a thing, would indeed be foolish.
Especially, now that Paulson and the Federal Reserve are now playing games and not informing America where the now $2 trillion in bail-out money is going (See: http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/12/13/santa-claus-is-in-town-reader-post/). Granted, the language of the bill required how and where the money went be reported to Congress for oversight, though not to Bloomberg or any other sources or watchdog agencies. But that they are not being transparent in the matter is very disconcerting as that is our childrens’ and their childrens’ money we are talking about.
Larry, I am a (former) union member. So I feel qualified to expound some on your thoughts that beating on the union is the same as beating on the union member. Not true.
Most of us in the union were dragged in by necessity… either we could not get jobs until we joined the union, and we could not join until we met certain obligations set by the union. After we were in, was I satiated? No. Their control over our lives was far more intrustive than I’d like. Frankly, I could deal one on one with my employer over what bugged me. But that wasn’t possible when I was a union member.
I look at unions today like I look at insurance. And… for one who was raised as the daughter of an insurance agent, this is tough… but insurance is the new mafia protection racket. Unions are not much different.
So that’s my comeback to you equating workers with the union. We were at their mercy, and at those that were mandated to hire union in order to complete a project. Just a legalized mafia, IMHO.
Now, INRE you equating this to the financial industry. That’s entirely different. We are not talking one on one loans and loan/qualification/appraise guidelines specifics here. In financial, you are talking selling packages of assets. The problem is not packaging assets. It’s packaging GOOD assets. And that can only be done at the one on one/local level. And it is there that the government needs to STAY OUT OF IT!
Kapisch?
Unions are bandits. They will ruin every country where they operate. Here in Canada they are always on strike. They take the population in hostage constantly, whether it is in the public transportation, the hospitals, the schools, the post offices, the airports, the policemen and firemen, etc. They sleep in the same bed with leftists.
They are the reason for the increase of life costs at the expense of non-union workers. They are responsible for the deterioration of the quality of work; they will not aloud a worker to be diligent: he can only do what he is there to do, they want no extra from him that is not his job, and he has to stick to the rules no matter what. They make sure that you cannot fire an employee even if he is a lazy asshole. They are dictators, you HAVE TO join them or you have no job.
There was a time when they were helpful, that time as long past away. Nowadays they are the ones who are throwing sand in the mechanic to ruin it. We have to get rid of these idiots.
The coalition that took place in Canada to replace Stephen Harper was due to your American bailout. That stupid coalition wanted Harper to bail out everyone here like you are doing it in the States… lol… and they wanted him to go with Kyoto like Obama is about to do… re-lol! You are such a bad example for the world with that stupid bailout and with Obama and his obsession for Kyoto.
MataHarley, are you sure that Toyota and other foreign automakers (especially if they are manufacturing the vehicles in the USA) do not have to meet the same OSHA and EPA standards that the American companies do?
Curt I have to congratulate you on the caliber of your posters. There is more knowledge and common sense here that keeps me coming back. I worked for both Ford and Chrysler, in my working days, and hated the unions with a passion. If the union would just police them selves and weed out the trouble makers inside the plants, and by that I mean allow the cronic drunks and absentees to be eliminated (instead of bargaining with the company) so that the good workers rights are protected. They fight more for the bad then the good.
shooter, I think they do have to meet the same EPA/OSHA standards. However they do not have to meet the UAW standards, which will drive the big three over the top for competitive costs. ANd being newer factories, they may be more financially efficient in meeting the EPA/OSHA standards.
You don’t think American cars are junk? Consumer Reports begs to differ. I was recently looking for a used car and found their ratings to be quite accurate. After checking the problem areas on their site, I went to various automotive forums for each car. Sure enough the problems CR said to expect were happening in significant numbers. While the big 3 may be building the best cars they ever have, they just aren’t where they need to be overall. They still have far too many lemons for me to put my trust in them.
For some real fun, Google Solstice/Sky problems. You’ll also find they lose 10K on each one.
Oh and lest anyone thinks I’m rejoicing in their spotty reliability, think again. I WANT them to build the best cars bar none. Until they get rid of the union contracts tho, they won’t even have the chance.
One last thing, the UAW contract rules is a book that weighs 22 pounds.
That’s insane! My book, The Xmas War, is 700+ pages and weighs less than 5. It’s the largest technothriller ever, and took years to write. How in God’s name can someone write a 22pound beast like that? Musta taken TEAMS of lawyers working in shifts for years!.
(shameless holiday plug, The Xmas War by Scott Malensek is available at Amazon.com, or any bookstore by order).
700 plus? Pffft. I’d go thru that in 2-3 days. 🙂
Let me make that “shameless holiday plug” a tad easier for you, Scott. Here’s the Amazon link to the book. There ya go, Hard Right… got a spare 2-3 days?
Mata, I will soon. Or not. I have a lady friend coming to town…
Pat Buchanan has an interesting “take” on all of this:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=29926
Buchanan continues:
Mr. Weisenthal,
I am sure that you also believe that George W. Bush signed NAFTA too, right?
It’s not just foreign investors that have received incentives to build and bring jobs to the various states, the big 3 auto companies have also received plenty of tax incentives from the states they operate in. Bad management and high labor costs have created this problem.
What do you want Larry, shut down the competition or should the union and the big 3 get serious about figuring out how to stay in business? It’s not the fault of the taxpayers, the Republicans or the guy next door that this has happened. No one should have a guilt trip laid on them because they don’t see sense in throwing billions on their problem today, again in three months, again in another short period of time. The root of the problem is corporate management and union leadership. Those are the two that have to budge and stop blaming everyone else for what they have wrought. They had a chance with Senator Corker’s direction, they blew it.
Republican globalists caused the migration of our jobs? baloney. Buchanan’s a nutcase. Clinton also had a big hand in greasing the jobs leaving the US skids.
http://migration.ucdavis.edu/mn/more.php?id=789_0_2_0
I’m not endorsing all of Buchanan’s points of view. I think, however, that he is correct in pointing out that the actions of Southern politicians, such as Shelby and DeMint, were not entirely based on principled conservatism, but were also infused with motives of protecting and growing their own (albeit foreign-owned) automobile industries. Also, there is certainly a degree of hypocrisy in not acknowledging the considerable taxpayer subsidies paid on behalf of the foreign auto assembly plants in those states.
I agree that this was a golden opportunity to restructure the American auto industry labor contracts. I hope that Bush gets Gettlefinger to agree to contract restructuring, but it appears that he’s moving forward with his own personal backdoor bail out.
Yes, Clinton and the GOP partnered on NAFTA, which I supported then and continue to support.
I don’t consider it to be a serious argument to call someone a “nutcase.” I’m more impressed by a specific counter-argument to a specific point. Even “nutcases” are occasionally correct.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
I can tell by the comments here that few have read Buchanan’s 1998 very excellent book, The Great Betrayal: How American Sovereignty and Social Justice are Being Sacrificed to the Gods of the Global Economy.
Think what you like of Buchanan personally, but where the man genuinely excels is in history.
The linked column is a very abbreviated synopsis of Buchanan’s book. However to know how he got from there, you actually have to read it. i.e. if you’ve never heard of the Auto Pact of 1965 by LBJ with Canada, that stated for every care sold in Canada, one would have to be built in Canada, then this book will fill you in on the history of not only the auto industry, but all our manufacturing… and it’s gradual demise. This starting back from colonial days, walking thru the Sugar and Townsend Acts, and forward. It’s truly a great read, and dedicated solely to one subject… American economy, and the events that affected it… good and bad.
You’ll learn how George Washington was adamant that the US maintain our basic needs within our borders, like steel, textiles, etal. He was truly a product of the west, and shunned any dependence upon Britain or Europe.
What is most fascinating is prior to the Great Wars, the US was not only in the black, but had surpluses. Then again, it was the time of tariffs and protectionism. This worked out well in the times when int’l trade and shipping wasn’t so easy. In modern times, I doubt the same principle could work.
But you’ll learn much on Buchanan’s walk thru American history of trade and economics. This has been his biggest beef for decades…. watching industrial American slip into oblivion… and thereby our economic power and potential. I’m not sure he has absolute answers, but I do know that I’d like to hear more of what Buchanan believes is a solution in the context of history performance. He’s not a man to be discounted on this particular issue.
I have no idea what happened to my post when I tried to edit it so I erased the whole thing. wierd stuff.
Mata, unfortunately Buchanan (aka Pukecannon) has recently shown himself to be a rabid anti-semite and nazi lover. He has also aligned himself with the Belgium political group Vlaams Belang a bunch if Ultra Nationalist neo-nazi lovers. He outed himself some time ago in his book.
A Republic, Not an Empire
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/patbuchanan1.html
Here’s one link on him.
http://www.realchange.org/buchanan.htm
BTW, I thought Pat’s book was more recent than 1998-9. I was wrong.
Little Green Footballs has a lot of info on Pat’s nazi loving ways and that of his father.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/30663_Neo-Nazis_Heart_Pat_Buchanan
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/30650_Buchanan_Blames_Israel_and_AIPAC_for_High_Gas_Prices
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/30593_Pat_Buchanan_Appears_on_Neo-Nazi_Radio_Show
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/30416_Pat_Buchanan-_Hitler_Didnt_Plan_to_Kill_the_Jews
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/lgf-search.php?searchString=pat+buchanan
Hard Right, I did not address the accusations that always are a’whirl around Buchanan as an anti-Semite. As I said, where the man excels is in history… most especially military strategy and economic history. He comes from the days when isolationism and protectionism weren’t dirty words.
However, INRE the anti-Semite charges… I often wonder why so many would believe that Reagan chose an “anti-Semite” for his communications director. Could it be because he is misjudged? From the things I do know about Buchanan… which are mostly confined to his books and writings, I’ve never seen the anti-Semite side. However I am not in full possession of what facts the accusers put forth. I’ll read your links. However this does not change my opinion of him as an economic and military historian.
Oh boy Larry W.! Where should I start with you. You obviously do not understand economic and globalization.
Here are 4 videos that everyone SHOULD watch to understand what is going here right now in your country. If someone could embed them, it would be great:
Keynesian Economics is Wrong: Bigger Gov’t is Not Stimulus. (Dan Mitchell, Cato Institute)
This one explains “Creative destruction” of jobs:
Mexicans and Machines: Reason.tv (Drew Cary)
This one explains why Obama is wrong and do not understand:
Obama Promises To Stop America’s shitty jobs From Going Overseas:
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/obama_promises_to_stop_americas?utm_source=embedded_video
This one explains why Ford cannot make it in America:
Ford’s Camaçari Plant