Since I’ve been traveling all day today I was remiss in not posting about the horrible terrorist attacks in India. Something which intelligence agencies were expecting according to the Times of London:
Western intelligence services have been expecting an al-Qaeda spectacular terrorist attack in this crucial period between the end of President George Bush’s administration and the succession of Barack Obama.
Signals intelligence “chatter” in recent weeks indicated that Osama bin Laden’s terrorist organisation might be plotting an attack “to grab the headlines” before Mr Obama takes over in the White House on January 20.
British security and intelligence sources said there had been increasing concern, particularly in the United States, that a “terrorist spectacular” was on the cards.
And it was indeed something which would grab the headlines.
Teams of gunmen stormed luxury hotels, a popular restaurant, a crowded train station and a Jewish center, killing at least 101 people and holding Westerners hostage in coordinated attacks on India’s commercial center that were blamed on Muslim militants. Dozens of people were still trapped or held captive Thursday.
Police and gunmen were exchanging occasional gunfire at two luxury hotels and dozens of people were believed held hostage or trapped inside the besieged buildings. Pradeep Indulkar, a senior official at the Maharashtra state Home Ministry said 101 people were killed and 314 injured.
Among the dead were at least one Australian, Japanese and British national he said. Officials said eight militants had also been killed in the coordinated attacks on at least 10 sites that began around 9:30 p.m. Wednesday.
Gunmen also seized the Mumbai headquarters of the ultra-orthodox Jewish outreach group Chabad Lubavitch. Indian commandos surrounded the building Thursday morning and witnesses said gunfire was heard from the building.
~~~Alex Chamberlain, a British citizen who was dining at the Oberoi, told Sky News television that a gunman ushered 30 to 40 people from the restaurant into a stairway and, speaking in Hindi or Urdu, ordered everyone to put up their hands.
Recent Attacks on Americans and Interests in India
“They were talking about British and Americans specifically. There was an Italian guy, who, you know, they said: ‘Where are you from?” and he said he’s from Italy and they said ‘fine’ and they left him alone. And I thought: ‘Fine, they’re going to shoot me if they ask me anything — and thank God they didn’t,” he said.
Bill Roggio on who is behind the attack:
A group called the Deccan Mujahideen, or Indian Mujahideen, has taken credit for today’s strike, the Times of India just reported.
While it is certainly possible that the group is taking credit for another’s handiwork, the Indian Mujahideen has been implicated as being behind several recent attacks in India.
The group claimed credit for the July 25 and 26 bombings in Ahmedabad and Bangalore. At least 36 Indians were killed and more than 120 were wounded in the attacks. The Indian Mujahideen took credit for the Sept. 13 attacks in New Delhi that resulted in 18 killed and more than 90 wounded. The group also claimed credit for the bombings in Jaipur last May (60 killed, more than 200 wounded), and bombings in Uttar Pradesh in November 2007 (14 killed, 50 wounded).
Indian intelligence believes the Indian Mujahideen is a front group created by Lashkar-e-Taiba and the Harkat ul Jihad al Islami to confuse investigators and cover the tracks of the Students’ Islamic Movement of India, or SIMI, a radical Islamist movement. The groups receive support from Pakistan’s Inter-Service Intelligence and are al Qaeda affiliates.
Although a commenter at Hot Air who is supposedly in Mumbai said its a red herring:
Latest reports here say Intel claiming “Deccan Mujahadeen” is a red herring and “foreign elements” at play i.e. Pakistani terrorist.
Our friends were supposed to do dinner at the Oberoi last night. Thank goodness for a migrane headache.
Another report says 2 US intel officers have been killed at the Taj.
This is not over yet.
However, this new report is stating that the attack most definitely originated from Pakistan:
According to highly reliable intelligence sources, two boatfuls of weapons and some 18-20 terrorists most likely came from Karachi in Pakistan.
Intelligence agencies are zeroing in on the Lashkar-e-Tayiba as the agency behind the terror attacks.
The initial interrogation of terrorists captured in Mumbai has yielded some basic information. According to sources, for some time the directions kept coming “live” to the terrorists in Mumbai via satellite phones.
The intelligence sources said information is coming out quite rapidly because some six terrorists, who are in the custody of the Mumbai police, are under interrogation right now. He said the entire operation was led by Pakistani operators of the LeT but he doesn’t rule out the involvement of some local youngsters in it.
You can see how spread out these coordinated attacks were at this Google Map address.
And even more shocking is the supposed number of attackers (via Hot Air)
MSNBC was streaming IBN just now and a correspondent speculated that we’re looking at maybe 100 suspects here, maybe more. How was a group that large trained and equipped well enough to carry out coordinated attacks without anyone leaking or Indian counterterror knowing about it? See now why Roggio thinks ISI might be at work here?
And Pam at Atlas Shrugs has more on the anti-semitic angle of the attack.
And the world awaits the newly elected, completely inexperienced and way over his head President-elect Obama’s call to India to stop their aggression against the terrorists.
Oh wait, that would never happen right?
Meanwhile there is some slight buyers remorse: (h/t American Power)
Watching these scenes from Mumbai, I am a little more sympathetic to arguments that Obama needs experience and stability at Defense as he takes charge. But just a little. It would be wrong to let an ugly terror attack, wherever it occurs, shake our values and our commitment to a sane foreign and defense policy. We tried that seven years ago and look where it got us.
Where did it get us? How many attacks on US soil have been committed since 9/11 again?
That’s what it got us dummy.
See author page
Yah, they need more armed civilians.
Otherwise the hotels just need more armed guards, location hardening, and not be shy and gun-phobic about it.
Down here, they were putting two armed guards at each of our big schools after the Beslan attack, but I think they stopped some time ago. In the end, the answer is to simply arm more civilians, arm the teachers, arm the parents, arm the hotel managers, arm the hotel staff.
Nothing is more undignified than having to runaway like a scared rabbit and hide in some cupboard when some semi-retarded islamojerkoff starts spraying his cheapo AK around at unarmed civilians. But if you are armed, even with a handgun, then dignity is retained and the story changes.
My thoughts, hopes and sympathies with the victims’ families, and also with the indian soldiers who will have a tough job in going into the hotel and killing the islamomilitants later.
What happens in Mumbai will eventually have a replay on your US mainland at some point of time. Probably in places designated “gun-free zones”. We all should learn from what has happened in Mumbai, and not ease up on the war against these nutcases.
As for Obama, with regret must I say that he would be the first person running to hide in a cupboard if he was ever caught in a situation like this.
About the chatter and a possible NYC attack. I heard some intel official say that even though they are picking up chatter, they watch money, there is no evidence of money moving, he was confident that it was just talk. He said we still have to be vigilent and report anything out of the ordinary.
Sounds good, but how do we know this guy has all the information that the FBI would have?
I read somewhere that a London arab newspaper edited by the last guy to video interview OBL had predicted a large scale attack on the US mainland, by the yemeni? chapter of AQ.
I dislike these islamomilitants because many of my friends still serve as reservists(I am finished) doubtless because they skills that can be used cheaply by the govt. One who is a bank branch manager by day has to guard some water installation a few times a year with his platoon of 40 overweight and outa shape reservists. Another guy who is in construction by day is in forensics as a reservist and has to pick up and sort thru body parts if there is an bomb attack. He was saying, thank god we do not have to be the “SWAT” and go in if anything happens, and I said: “Nope, you will be blown up by the second bomb when you are responding to the scene.”
In any case, the worst attacks these islamomilitants can make is on schools. This Mumbai attack is just a taste of further nonsense to come. I am willing to bet, hateful as it may be, that we will see an attack on US soil within the term of Obama’s administration.
It is actually a great testiment to your GWB and his admin that no attack has occurred on US soil since 911. I am sure the AQ tried many times, but got blocked or messed up before they could get their plans going. As if they never tried. For sure they tried, but they could not get it going. Critics can say anything, but GWB did a good job here, the proof speaks for itself.
The attacks happened again today and Alex chamberlen is just lucky to escape from the hostage drama. He said that the attacks are specifically for british and americans
Hey guys, it was I.S.I. behind it, Pakistan’s intel. agency. Lashkar-e-Taiba (or however you choose to spell it) is funded, trained and armed by the I.S.I.:
“It comprises cadres mostly from Pakistan and Afghanistan and a sprinkling of militants from Sudan, Bahrain, Central Asia, Turkey and Libya. Funded, armed and trained by the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISl, the external intelligence agency of Pakistan), it has presently a little over 750 cadres (this number keeps changing) in Jammu and Kashmir (a vast majority of the foreign mercenaries operating in the Valley).” http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/states/jandk/terrorist_outfits/lashkar_e_toiba.htm
“The ISI has for years helped to direct the militant war in Kashmir, and its officers, militants say, are well aware that the Islamist fighters are still in business. “Training is under way in Azad Jammu and Kashmir and we are not under pressure from any government agency to stop,” the Lashkar fundraiser said. “When this training is going on do you think these agencies are not aware? Of course they are.” The Pakistan army consistently denies giving the militants anything more than moral, diplomatic and political support. The reality is quite different. The ISI’s Kashmir cell issues money and directions to militant groups. “Every jihadi has links with ISI,” said a military source. “You cannot be a jihadi without having links with the ISI.” A select few are in very close contact with ISI officers.” http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/5-25-2002-19083.asp
The objective may well be to cripple India’s tourist industry by making westerners leery of going there.
Wade, I’m not sure of the point you wish to make. It is no secret that the Pakistan intelligence agencies and army are rift with corruption… radicals friendly to the radicals. Hence my hesitation to celebrate the PPP political victory in elections. Benazir’s party was the party that created and sustained the original Taliban. They knew of their corrupt alignments within, and did nothing but make truces with these animals… to no avail. Much as they are doing today.
But then again, a Pakistan as a quasi-ally is certainly superior to an outright, nuke-armed enemy. Yet it must be said, I have little faith in their current govt in overriding the internal corruption, nor cleaning out their jihad nests in their midst.
It is not fair to blame muslim for all this mess. Dont forget the Malegaon attack was blamed on muslims too but turned out the hindu extrmist were behind it. The Man who uncovered the Malegaon conspiracy Major Karkare misteriously killed. Try to find who get the benefit of all this incident, you will find the it stinks.
@Someone:
Except for the fact that the attackers were Muslims, you’re correct.
He all
Well i live in Pakistan and am as sad as you people are however any terrorist activity in this world is not connected to Pakistan this every one knows and again its very easy to pass the blame game. Yes i agree that we in Pakistan are an important state nowadays however Pakistan itself is suffering from these activities. Are these also planned by Pakistan for Pakistan. Why dont we blame other islamic countries like Iran or Afghanistan for any terror activity.
It is also known that an armed truck loaded with amo was parked in indian embassy in Islamabad which was used in Marriot attacks. Did any one hear people blaming india for that.
I think its time for all liberal and moderated countries and people to sit and think on biggest zionist consipiracies that are being planned by the think tanks of world’s power. India is only important to them due to China, Pakistan due to Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq.
We third world countries are facing the decisions and impacts of decisions of pseudo intellectuals sitting in the state of art conference rooms devicing luck for us.
We need to research. It would be interesting to know involvement of Pakistani ISI so easily and openly when they themselves know that every such activity is linked to them ASAP. That means there is some other force who want people to think that ISI is involved.
I dont think if ISI is doing it, it may be so un intelligent to wipe off its traces…. If its so easy to detect ISIs involvement, my auditing mind suggests me not to wander around onto this planned tracked by some real enemies…..
Ahmad Shuja Pasha is the current ISI cheif, an anti Taliban, a very close ally of CIA and specially trained by americans. ISIs involvement then means what…. every week almost, american and british ambassadors and army personnel meet pakistani counterparts. what for.. not to detect a terror plan by ISI under their nose. Bullshit…. for detail research refer to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shuja_Pasha
Mustafa, we are honored to have you here, giving us the Pakistani perspective. Please understand I don’t believe your entire ISI or army is corrupt. It only takes a few bad apples to affect the barrel and cause serious damage. And we have those within our own agencies that I also often question their allegiance.
I understand the Pak army opened fire on the Pak/Indian border yesterday. Do you know what that was all about?
I also think you may short change what value Pakistan and India have. I would think the western leaders far prefer Muslim countries that are ruled by elected officials, and wish to engage the world in trade, and aid in weeding out the jihad global movements that attack not only westerners, but fellow Muslims.
The point is. Why do we, we both nations tend to retaliate with no patience. If anything happens in Pakistan RAW is the culprit and vice versa.. Dont we need to look at it from other way round. Are there some forces, may be within agencies, who based on this universal truth are trying to yield benefits.
ISI or some of their corrupt officials who represent ISI can not be that fool not to be traced so easily that too just before the close of operation that too when the evidence is a dead terrorist.
I invite you to think on it from other angels too…
Who want benefit from this region. Who are our friends and enemies.
Are we both enemies for ever. What are the real motives of our governments and people who are governing our govts.
These all questions arise only from outta mind of unbiased and moderate mass.
Jay Bharat Maata is equal to Pakistan Zindabad. Since we both nations want us to survive, we should sit together and think for it too..
Regards
I see miseries of every poor person of my and your country equivalent and still we fight for God knows what.
Those filthy islamojerkoffs just managed to kill one of our locals in the Mumbai Oberoi, a chinese girl lawyer in her 20s. The poor girl. Another chinese couple hid 14 ours in a broom cupboard then escaped. Seems that a fair number of hostages were killed, and the indian commandos(or whatever group) that was doing the entry were not able to save a significant number of the hostages, despite all their confident talk.
I am not familiar with the indian military and special forces, but nothing like this has happened for them before and I guess they are not as well prepared and trained as they could be. What ever the case, I am not in their shoes and don’t want to criticise them too much as they have a tough job today. Business and finance in indian is managed with the maximum corruption, screwups and inefficiency(this I know from experience), so I’m guessing their military is not too different.
Those disgusting islamojerkoffs killed our girl lawyer. They need to be exterminated like cockroaches. Those who are their handlers, organisers and supporters must all be killed with no mercy at all. The way to win is not by responding, but by going on the offensive, as GWB has done so well. You americans are really lucky to have a POTUS like GWB.
Yes, Sigmund… I also have been happy to finally have a POTUS who has gone on the offensive instead of waiting to “respond” as previous admins have done. However I fear that era has come to an end.
sigmundringeck,
Once again I agree with you. American were lucky to have GWB. Too bad he is not allowed to do a third mandate.
Mustafa,
What do you mean by: “I think its time for all liberal and moderated countries and people to sit and think on biggest zionist consipiracies that are being planned by the think tanks of world’s power.”
Israel is a allie and a real good one. Israel is full of Zionists and I like their philosophy. So what did you mean by “biggest zionist conspiracies”?
Zionism is really connected to Israel but in language of diplomacy it is talked in a context.
Any regime which aims to take over some other regime’s political, social, economic and environmental heritage by use of power against the will of the acquirees is considered to be a zionist regime. That takeover may be legal or illegal.
Freedom fighter for one nation is a terrorist for another. Israel is ally. Their philosophy is likeable but do you feel now its important if the have to prove something or not.
I was just watching a moview few minutes back while having lunch. It was about daniel pearl. Characters were indians and few pakistanis mainly. I saw daniel’s wife (angelina) was pregnent. I felt sorry for her.
After a while i started reading a local newspaper. While having a cup of tea i read, “almost 100 women give birth to their babies on check posts in Palestine after every 5/6 months”
I am not here to prove who is right or wrong. I repeat i am not. I will never say that Israel is evil or Taliban are bad. Kashmiri mujahideens are evil or indian army who is in Kashmir.
All i talk about is justice. or then. Lets in this world device a rule.
Justice that every human being is equal. His life and soveriegnity is equal.
Or devicing a rule that One Jew = 1.25 Chiristian = 1.75 some other religion and bla bla.
Then let me tell u clearly. Since i am a moderate educated muslim living in the most important country of this world that i am afraid these Jihadis and mujahideens have also deviced a formula which says
1 muslim > a jew or christian and bla bla… I say clearly that these thoughts are evil yet I am afraid if this is what we see now, then lets face the music.
Let me summarize
America in so many years coudnt find Osama. Taliban and talibanisation is the biggest regime nowadays. A clear definition of differences is seen nowadays i.e. being muslim or islamic is to be a jihadist or islamist (which is a fabricated definition), but if i say i am a muslim, world see that i am a terrorist..
These all definitions and philosphies will yield what.
I have a degree in accounting. I worked hard for it. You are an MBA from harvard. U really worked hard for it. We both are enjoying a perfect living style. He has a gun in his hand. Lives in mountains. And kill people. If he is our enemy then we are dead coz we are not prepared for him. HE IS………………. 9/11 for america is just one that day and the time since now. And for them 9/11 was just A DAY…. for which they planned for years before it.
If they are your or my enemies then assume us all dead and this world not a place for living……
I may sound like “not making a sense” coz i am in hurrry for something. Ignore my spelling errors and the placement of words…. but thats what i feel…..
LETS IN THIS WORLD, OF PEOPLE WHO ARE BUCH BETTER THAN THEIR GOVT. TRY TO FIND THE MISERIES OF THOSE WHO HAVE PICKED WEAPONS FOR THEIR OWN RIGHT. THEY MAY BE WRONG BUT NOW THEY HAVE GUN……………
Lets find out who made taliban. who made ISI. who made RAW. who killed rajev gandhi and benazir. who made zardari as president of pakistan. what is kashmir movement and lashkar e taeba. what is a jewish legitimate right and what is palestinian issue.
obama’s one thing i liked and i hope he may be able to do it. TALK AND NEGOTIATE BUT WITH SINCERITY…… otherwise india and pakistan are and have been talking yet india stops the water in rivers of pakistan and pakistan fires on line of control….
good bye…
Mustafa,
“obama’s one thing i liked and i hope he may be able to do it. TALK AND NEGOTIATE BUT WITH SINCERITY” (Mustafa)
I’m sorry to delusion you, but Obama is not a sincere man. He is a liar, a manipulator, a flip flopper, a cheater and a fraud. He had the worse past associations (terrorists, Marxists, communists, crooks) and he all toss them under the bus when it was found out.
Obama has lived for 48 years without leaving any documentation, no records, no paper trail, nothing. He has no footprint.
Original, vault copy birth certificate — not released
Certificate of Live Birth — released — counterfeit
Obama/Dunham marriage license — not released
Soetoro/Dunham marriage license — not released
Soetoro adoption records — not released
Fransiskus Assisi School School application — released
Punahou School records — not released
Selective Service Registration — released — counterfeit
Occidental College records — not released
Passport (Pakistan) — not released
Columbia College records — not released
Columbia thesis — not released
Harvard College records — not released
Harvard Law Review articles — none (maybe 1, unsigned?)
Baptism certificate — none
Medical records — not released
Illinois State Senate records — none
Illinois State Senate schedule — lost
Law practice client list — not released
University of Chicago scholarly articles — none
And for the rest of your post, I read it a few times but could not understand what you meant at all. Can you be a bit clearer about Zionism?
Sir Craig…
I hope someone could elaborate on what i said. Things are preety clear i suppose.
Justice fair play and impartiality…. with no belongings to religion … in substance… can help us achieve peace.
Obama is good or bad. I feel he made sense so americans voted for him.
But lets not deviate this discussion.. Its abt India and Pakistan, about justice, about identifying real enemies.
For me its about finding the real or intrinsic values of under and over stated relationships.
To find real meanings of where this world is heading and whois controlling what and why.
And what are think tanks doing. Who is devicing new map of my country Pakistan. Who is helping them. Where will india go if china strikes in. What pakistan will do when china requires help…
Its about sub continent,. The agent for change,,,,
Its about the two step sons of queen elizabeth. One Gandhi India and other Jinnah Pakistan. Gandhi India is elder. Much much elder and mature. Jinnah Pakistan is vibrant and challenging. Gandhi India didnt like his younger brother Jinnah Pakistan when the later asked for another home where he could live on his mandate. Jinnah Pakistan is very straight forward and un diplomatic. So he was given with few bucks to start a new home.
Mother elizabeth (whois now United US and UK) has its own interests. It had then in 1800s. It has now in 2000s…
Its now time for Gandhi India and Jinnah Pakistan to look around and take charge of things jointly.
Craig: I understand you have copied your post may be from one of site like this
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message674492/pg1
but any way it doesnt matter
Mustafa said:
Using your own definition, you’ve just described jihad. And I agree that is illegal. However in Afghanistan and Iraq, an unelected, illegal regime – who achieved their power by fear and the point of a gun – was removed so that the citizens could choose their own government rule. I am unaware that either Afghanistan or Iraq are becoming the US 51st State in the union.
Only Palestine has put a designated terror group, Hamas, into power via election. However they were not voting for violence, but for Hamas’ social welfare programs. Your own country does not condone the jihad movement, as your last election shows…. but you still struggle to contain these elements that live within your borders, and wreak havoc on your soil and elsewhere.
That is an exaggeration of the truth. And it has only been until the jihad movements started murdering Muslims in Iraq that jihad has begun to fall out of favor with most of Islam. Many, however, are leery of Muslims because the jihad waged is being done by Muslims. So not all Muslims are terrorists, but virtually all terrorists *are* Muslims.
And how has that worked out with… say… Baitulla Mehsud? Many truces and talks have been done over the years. They have broken them all. Negotiate with the jihad movement? As Zawahiri himself says, it is a sign of weakness.
Lots of the locals here are very upset, because the girl lawyer’s family knew a lot of people, being grassroots organisers for one of the local politicians. Many are shocked at her death because they thot that terrorism would not touch them. For the locals here, it’s the first time one of theirs has been killed in a terrorist attack. And the stupid local newspapers were saying she was “fine” and “safe” alive in the hands of the terrorists.
The ignorant media here(the english media is affiliated to NYT) do not understand, once these islamojerkoffs capture you, you are as good as dead. The only remaining question is whether they can make use of you before killing you. They asked her to appeal to the authorities not to attack the terrorists(as per normal practice) or else she would be killed by them. Then when the indians made entry, I assume she was killed.
A very very sad story.
Sigmun
U have only responded to three issues
Illegal regimes. Jihad. Every terrorist is muslim. and Obama re talk/negotiate.
I would request you again to review my post. I say.. Even when i am muslim, dont consider me religiously… try to find justice and peace
Freedom fighter of one nation is terrorist of other. I repeat again. Obv world see Osama as terrrorist coz he is terrorist for one part of world. But what about the other part.
If you know about financial management, world has not hedged the risk properly. What abt those who think he is not a terrorist. And what if they favour him and pick guns and present their lives for his cause too… Y not to see what their aim is/was. Can a single american be so brave, a marine corps may be, to wear a belt loaded with amo and blow himself when finds the target. Can he? He cant even beat the so called spirit of an 18 year old jihadi fighter who lived all his life on mountains. Lets dont now discuss who is right and who is wrong. Lets talk about the spirit. The rage. The anger.
Issac Newton deviced a third law of motion. This unchallenged law says “every action has equal and opposite reaction” Action will always say I am right. And vice versa.. The surroundings will be affected.
I dont support and comment on any group which is killing humanity and innocent people. I dont. I cant.
No one can.
Yet. I am asking this as an independent person. What about those “GROUPS” who are killing or have killed innocent people of Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Kashmir, Lebanon and then Israel, Vietnam, Japan and many other countries and now India’s Mumbai and many times my own Pakistanis… what about those innocent people. So this discussion is not fruitful whois terrorist and who is not.
For you Osama is, for him and his people, USA is. So who will win. The one who has more power. Now USA but thennnn may be some other. Collateral damage my dear collateral damage. So lets try to find solution to save us from this collateral damage. I dont want that I may be hit one day by a talibanist/jihadist due to my US affiliation. Will you like to die for USA in this respect. No one sir, not even US citizens.
U said every terrorist is muslim. These muslim terrorist (ur definition) and Jihadist/Mujahid (their definition) say most of the muslim countries are hit by state terrorism, where one country with help of number of countries come inside. Say that hey ur head of state is a terror for u. Wipes off those heads but resultantly spread more terrorism
1. Muslims of moderate countries like mine who are educated, moderate, dynamic and challenging are in much better a position to guide west and allied that heyy its not like things be working in ur way now….
How do u respond to me on above statement 2. and That why muslims of most countries are terrorist when their Holy book talks about peace. Their religion Islam means peace. Islam in arabic means peace. The book says “who so ever kills one human being, kills the whole humanity”
3. Then why are they terrorsits? Answer me.
4. And answer me that why there is a dividing line created between islam and the west (including jews/chiristians/hindus etc)
I am a student in search of peace. If any one here has any thing to say, help me on atleast these 4 points.
And i respect to what you say and comment on.
Regards…
i wonder what islamojerkoffs suppose to mean 🙂 whats a fundo, an exterimist, islamist, jihadist, terrorist and what not.
I think this world will end itself on religion.
Something interesting i was reading
“Mr. Singh’s decision to accuse Pakistani elements of involvement before the attacks had been investigated – indeed, before they were over – alarmed U.S. officials, diplomats said. Washington rushed a special investigative team to Mumbai yesterday, and a diplomatic mission was sent to New Delhi in an effort to prevent India and Pakistan from turning against one another.
But Mr. Singh’s position may have less to do with international alliances and loyalties than it does with the more pressing concerns of domestic politics.
Several major Indian states are in the midst of election campaigns, with voting due to begin next week, and Mr. Singh’s social-democratic Congress Party faces serious challenges in at least four states from the far-right Hindu-nationalist BJP (Bharatiya Janata Party), whose leaders portray him as a sellout to Pakistan and a Muslim apologist.
Mr. Zardari of Pakistan, whose wife Benazir Bhutto was assassinated, reportedly by Islamists, has no such political compunction to increase tension with India.
Now lets see how people gain on elections.
I am sure Pakistani political machinery didnt blame india for their marriot attacks coz they were done with their elections 🙂
And i have two posts outstanding with so many issues.
Mustafa Haider (Pakistan);
Mustafa, you are totally wrong if you think blowing yourself up as a good strategy or is gutsier than our military. Our warfighters are taught to KILL the enemy, not themselves. And if you knew the heart and bravery of Americans, you would know there have been numerous examples of our service members throwing their bodies on grenades to save their brothers-in-arms. There is no lack of heroism of Americans, just think back to 9/11 and flight 93 as well.
If you are in Pakistan it is time for you to stand up and clean up your country.
Abang
It may surprise u to know that I have many muslim friends.
I don’t talk abt terrorism with them. Neither do they want to talk about terrorism with me.
Problem is, not all muslims are good and tolerant.
Some are crazy about grabbing power and killing people. They think it is good and interpret many parts of the koran to justify their actions. As u know the koran has many sections where you are advised to kill infidels and u will go to paradise.
Very often, such evil and power-mad people will bring up real or imagined past injustices to justify their next atrocity or terrorist attack. This is nonsense. What they want is power and money, that is all. They claim all sorts of reasons or excuses for their evil acts, but actually they just want power.
With regret, we need to kill and defeat such evil people, be they muslims, christians, jews, buddhists, communists whatever.
Hello everyone. So i’m a 23 year old Pakistani and i’m a pakhtun. All i wanna say is that arguments, debates and discussions on the internet take you freakin’ nowhere. I’ve been doing them and seeing them for years now… it’s always the same shit being talked about over and over again… some intolerant brit using derogatory slurs, a sensible boy and girl trying to stay neutral, a pakistani with partially messed up english trying hard to deliver his point of view, an angry person here a more relaxed one there… it leads to nowhere. Right now i just wanna say that i think the terrorists kick ASS! It takes BALLS to do something like that. No matter how stupid your cause is. It’s just cool. And yeah, obviously, it’s sad for all the people who lost their family members. But it’s the natural order of life… some people kill, some defend, some get killed, others watch from afar and discuss… it’s the way the world is. But yeah, it was awesome. Take care people.
There you go, Mustafa from Lahore… meet one of your fellow compatriots from Islamabad.
You believe: I dont support and comment on any group which is killing humanity and innocent people. I dont. I cant. No one can.
Evidently your fellow countryman, Safyan, can. He thinks the terrorists “kick ass”, and “it’s just cool”. He thinks it takes balls for armed to the teeth human cockroaches to enter a building filled with unarmed men, women and children, and blow them to bits.
Big bad he man, my ass. They are the perfect example of cowardly scum of the earth… walking neanderthals who have lost their right to share the planet, IMHO. They are pansies, afraid to actually face military fighters. So they pick on the innocent. We have common thieves here who do the same to senior citizens and young, timid women. Your jihad heroes are on the food chain even below a common thief.
This is a man who walks on your soil, Mustafa. And I daresay he has friends who are also as demented and impressionable. The stupid are influenced easily by such “glory”.
You wouldn’t last long in my ‘hood, Safyan. And I, personally, would celebrate your kind of defective mentality passing from this planet.
Mustafa, if you think Mumbai was some set up by Indian Hindus for political/election purposes, it’s more likely the current officials will be losing their bid for re’election over this. So that’s an unlikely tangent.
Osama Bin Laden is a terrorist by anyone’s standards in any nation. The only ones who consider him a “freedom fighter” are other terrorists.
Go back to your own definition of zionism, and try again. I’ll repeat your words… with an alteration.
I fixed your quote for you. The global jihad movement, which includes many groups in their alliance, is bent on overthrowing any state they consider an apostate regime… one who is not imposing Shariah law as rule of the land and over the people (Muslim or not).
They do not believe in democracy or elections… calling it “unIslamic”. By their definition, Pakistan is an apostate government, formed by unIslamic elections.
Unless you are of this same belief, my enemy is your enemy. We may never agree or understand each other’s culture, but we can work together against a shared enemy that threatens both your and my way of life.
And if you want to talk about collateral damage, you may first want to talk to the enemy who hides behind women’s burkas, and straps bombs to children and the disabled in order to blow up the unarmed, innocent population…. including fellow Muslims. They do this intentionally. And evidently they are running out of “brave” suicide bombers.
The US coalition forces, NATO forces and the Iraq security forces do not target the innocent. The innocent die sometimes, as they have in all wars. But there is a huge difference between waging war deliberately attacking innocents, as these “far from brave” jihad cockroaches do, and facing off an armed enemy fighter. I have nothing but disdain for these jihad movements… not an iota of respect.
You consider it brave to strap on a suicide vest. I say this to you, Mustafa. Dying is easy. It is living, and facing the struggle daily to make this a better world, that is the more difficult path. Jihad suicide bombers take the easy way out, exiting as fools. You notice their revered leadership does not sacrifice their lives so easily.
You ask:
In America, there is no dividing line. Many of your countrymen and women come here for education. They have lived our life. You might want to instead ask why there is no dividing line in America, but there is a dividing line in your region of the world. Our country shows that it is possible to maintain who you are, your individuality… and yes, even disagree… but still live in peace. Benazir knew this.
Unfortunately, Benazir’s regime was the same who started the Taliban with Mulla Omar and Maulana Fazlur Rahman when she was PM. Her intent was honest… to protect cotton shipments during the Pak drought from being pirated when coming thru Afghanistan. However, to her chagrin, they became radical. Yet her advisors made sure the Taliban still thrived and survived.
I personally don’t believe the Pakistan government has anything to do with Mumbai. I do, however, believe that elements in your country (the only surviving terrorist gunner is Pakistani) organize, plan and train for these assaults. And I also believe you have some corrupt ISI, Army and elected officials that sympathize and give them aid.
Your country and mine have quite the road ahead of us. And as I said, unless you are like Safyan, my enemy is your enemy. And I dearly hope we can find a way to combat those few low lifes that cast a very ugly shadow over Islam.
Safyan:
I’m hoping that what you said was some kind of sick joke.
But seeing that your IP registers in Peshawar, Pakistan (116.71.218.214) I’ll take you seriously for a moment.
If you really believe it was “cool” to see this kind of murderous terrorism I suppose you must also think it is “cool” when the next Predator drone blasts one of these bastards in Pakistan?
Frankly, if you’d like to provide a bit more detail about your location such as a GPS coordinate, perhaps we can let you see in person how “cool” it is.
“Can a single american be so brave, a marine corps may be, to wear a belt loaded with amo and blow himself when finds the target. Can he?” (Mustafa)
Oh boy! You call this COURAGE? This is cowardliness. Blow yourself in bounded public places among innocent people and your own brothers, you call that courage? I guess we will never be able to understand one another.
You see, before the Islamist terrorists, wars were between two armies. A war is to protect the citizen of your country… it is the same principle as “self defense”, only on a larger scale. Islamist terrorists do not have Armies, they work in small groups all over the World and the way they work is vicious. These people are not fighting for freedom, right or security. They are fighting a Holy war that will give them a Caliphate. They hate the freedom and the rights of Western civilization. It is a war between Civilization and Barbary. They see us as Infidels and they want to kill every one of us. Their goal is to install Sharia laws all over the planet.
N.B.: The list above in my post #17 is on every blogs that discuss about Obama’s birth certificate. I think it comes originally from either Donofrio or Berk cases in the Supreme Court; I’m not sure where I got it from.
blast #24… nice to see us on the same page here. Well said. Our US forces exhibit true bravery and honor.
Mike’s America, MataHarley and all others offended by my comment. Take note, i do NOT in any way express the views of all my country men. It’s just me, a 23 year old rock musician from peshawar, pakistan. I have the least regard for any religion of the world. You have to be in my shoes and more appropriately in my head to know why i said the things i did. You might’ve been just as desensitized to bombings, killings, genocide and terrorism if you were a pakistani who lived amidst the heart of it all like me. Every single f’ng day from my teens to now i have been hearing of this crap all around me. Not like that in any way justifies more of that happening. I feel nothing when i hear of a Predator drone bombing someone’s home. Screw them. I don’t care if i die either. I don’t care if someone kills a bunch of people anywhere anymore. I’m just saying i find it an extraordinary display of courage to do something like that. The whole rampage, carnage… just a handful of young boys of my age causing so much destruction, bringing millions of people to their knees. Those who say they were afraid to face the commando’s and the military are out of their f’ng minds. They knew they were going to die. They walked into their own deaths. God bless the souls of those sick maniacs. Cheers to you all. P.S: I know i’m terribly wrong, just in case you’re thinking i think i’m right. But what can i say, that’s just the way i feel and think.
MY DETAILED REPLY WILL BE AFTER DEC 3.
DONT DISCUSS WHO IS RIGHT AND WHO IS NOT. WE KNOW WHO IS WRONG.
TELL ME HOW TO STOP THEM.
BY KILLING THEM AS PER YOU.
OK
FINE
KILL THEM
AND WAIT………..
i will reply in detail after december 3. and i request you all.,
not to be judgmental about religion, nations and regimes. be neutral. be unbiased.
and do try to be patient. like you all.
and not impatient. like muslims (as per few of above posters)
God bless America and other nations. and not only Amercia and if only America then no America….
thats bottom line.
I am sorry i will reply after dec 3. I have financial mgt paper.
rgrds
13 20 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31
these all posts require my address.
I will.
Some interesting points yielded outta my responses. I will reply soon..
They are as follows
MataHarley
6 Wade, I’m not sure of the point you wish to make. It is no secret that the Pakistan intelligence agencies and army are rift with corruption…
MataHarley
11 Mustafa, we are honored to have you here, giving us the Pakistani perspective. Please understand I don’t believe your entire ISI or army is corrupt. It only takes a few bad apples to affect the barrel and cause serious damage
sigmundringeck
13 Those filthy islamojerkoffs just managed to kill one of our locals in the Mumbai Oberoi
MataHarley
20
Using your own definition, you’ve just described jihad. And I agree that is illegal.
blast
24
Mustafa, you are totally wrong if you think blowing yourself up as a good strategy or is gutsier than our military. Our warfighters are taught to KILL the enemy, not themselves.
If you are in Pakistan it is time for you to stand up and clean up your country.
sigmundringeck
25
Abang
It may surprise u to know that I have many muslim friends.
Problem is, not all muslims are good and tolerant.
Some are crazy about grabbing power and killing people. They think it is good and interpret many parts of the koran to justify their actions. As u know the koran has many sections where you are advised to kill infidels and u will go to paradise.
Safyan
26 Hello everyone. So i’m a 23 year old Pakistani and i’m a pakhtun.
it’s always the same shit being talked about over and over again…
some intolerant brit using derogatory slurs, a sensible boy and girl trying to stay neutral, a pakistani with partially messed up english trying hard to deliver his point of view, an angry person here a more relaxed one there… it leads to nowhere.
But it’s the natural order of life… some people kill, some defend, some get killed, others watch from afar and discuss… it’s the way the world is. But yeah, it was awesome. Take care people.
MataHarley
27 There you go, Mustafa from Lahore… meet one of your fellow compatriots from Islamabad.
Evidently your fellow countryman, Safyan, can. He thinks the terrorists “kick ass”, and “it’s just cool”. He thinks it takes balls for armed to the teeth human cockroaches to enter a building filled with unarmed men, women and children, and blow them to bits.
This is a man who walks on your soil, Mustafa. And I daresay he has friends who are also as demented and impressionable. The stupid are influenced easily by such “glory”.
You wouldn’t last long in my ‘hood, Safyan. And I, personally, would celebrate your kind of defective mentality passing from this planet.
Mustafa, if you think Mumbai was some set up by Indian Hindus for political/election purposes, it’s more likely the current officials will be losing their bid for re’election over this. So that’s an unlikely tangent.
I fixed your quote for you. The global jihad movement, which includes many groups in their alliance, is bent on overthrowing any state they consider an apostate regime… one who is not imposing Shariah law as rule of the land and over the people (Muslim or not).
Unless you are of this same belief, my enemy is your enemy. We may never agree or understand each other’s culture, but we can work together against a shared enemy that threatens both your and my way of life.
The US coalition forces, NATO forces and the Iraq security forces do not target the innocent. The innocent die sometimes, as they have in all wars. But there is a huge difference between waging war deliberately attacking innocents, as these “far from brave” jihad cockroaches do, and facing off an armed enemy fighter. I have nothing but disdain for these jihad movements… not an iota of respect.
Dying is easy. It is living, and facing the struggle daily to make this a better world, that is the more difficult path
Unfortunately, Benazir’s regime was the same who started the Taliban with Mulla Omar and Maulana Fazlur Rahman when she was PM. Her intent was honest… to protect cotton shipments during the Pak drought from being pirated when coming thru Afghanistan.
I personally don’t believe the Pakistan government has anything to do with Mumbai. I do, however, believe that elements in your country (the only surviving terrorist gunner is Pakistani) organize, plan and train for these assaults.
Mike’s America
28 Safyan:
I’m hoping that what you said was some kind of sick joke.
But seeing that your IP registers in Peshawar, Pakistan (116.71.218.214) I’ll take you seriously for a moment.
suppose you must also think it is “cool” when the next Predator drone blasts one of these bastards in Pakistan?
Frankly, if you’d like to provide a bit more detail about your location such as a GPS coordinate, perhaps we can let you see in person how “cool” it is.
Craig
29
Oh boy! You call this COURAGE? This is cowardliness. Blow yourself in bounded public places among innocent people and your own brothers, you call that courage? I guess we will never be able to understand one another.
These people are not fighting for freedom, right or security. They are fighting a Holy war that will give them a Caliphate. They hate the freedom and the rights of Western civilization. It is a war between Civilization and Barbary. They see us as Infidels and they want to kill every one of us. Their goal is to install Sharia laws all over the planet.
Safyan
31
Mike’s America, MataHarley and all others offended by my comment. Take note, i do NOT in any way express the views of all my country men. It’s just me, a 23 year old rock musician from peshawar, pakistan. I have the least regard for any religion of the world. You have to be in my shoes and more appropriately in my head to know why i said the things i did. You might’ve been just as desensitized to bombings, killings, genocide and terrorism if you were a pakistani who lived amidst the heart of it all like me.
The whole rampage, carnage… just a handful of young boys of my age causing so much destruction, bringing millions of people to their knees. Those who say they were afraid to face the commando’s and the military are out of their f’ng minds. They knew they were going to die. They walked into their own deaths.
DEAR ALL…. IF YOU REVIEW THESE POSTS… U WILL SURELY FIND SOME ANSWERS. I CLAIM THAT I AM A MODERATE MUSLIM. SUFYAN TENDS TO EVEN UN RELIGIOUS. NOW YOU ALL ARE MAY BE CHRISTIANS JEWS OR HINDUS.
I TALK ABOUT NO RELIGION. JUST SOLUTIONS.
HERE ARE THESE POSTS. I WILL REPLY THEM SHORTLY
REGARDS…
P.S it is of utmost important for the whole world esp USA to win this war only with co operation of moderated Pakistan and Pakis. And if they dont think Pakistan is important then please wipe Pakistan off first.
http://www.scholar.ch/news.html
i would like to have a view. very interesting
@Safyan:
One of the “brave” heroes you blessed:
@Mustafa Haider (Pakistan):
I draw a strong distinction between freedom fighters and terrorists. What freedom are the Islamists fighting for? To repress people under strict fundamentalism/Sharia? The terrorists we face today are non-uniformed, hiding amongst civilians, using them as human shields, intentionally targeting unarmed men, women, and children for violence, using the mentally handicapped to carry out sick homicide bombings, etc.
You don’t see an objective difference?
Btw, welcome to FA! Your voice and perspective are important to hear.
Safyan, dear brother
I give you my viewpoint.
It takes no particular skill or courage to spray bullets at civilian people in hotels and cafes who do not expect it, have no guns to shoot back, to kill women and children. Such are the acts of cowards and jerkoffs who cannot succeed in any other aspect of life.
If they had attacked a US warship or US embassy, it is still wrong, but at least we can respect them for it. I understand many of the terrorists were very poor shooters and actually shot themselves by mistake. How cool is that?
In the end they were so frightened when the indians attacked them, that they took their own lives rather than fight the indians. Not very cool.
———————————————————–
Brother Safyan, If you want to know what is REAL fighting, we chinese fought the US military face to face in vietnam and korea. We did not shoot women and children, we did not shoot civilian people eating in hotels and cafes, like everytime your muslim terrorists try to do as your Number One strategy. We fought their soldiers. And they killed many of us, but eventually we drove them back and out. Now maybe we did not fight them for the right reason, but at least we did not fight them like cowards.
But these islamic terrorists, they fight like cowards, and all the world should spit on them, and treat them worse than dogs in the street.
Oh did they catch one Azam???
Wasn’t he supposed to kill himself and go to paradise??? Suddenly scared to die???
Not cool already???
Hope they give his testicles a nice massage…..with electricity.
MataHarley, Marines Cpl Jason Dunham (MOH), Sgt Rafael Peralta and Army PFC Ross McGinnis MOH), sacrificed their lives by covering a grenade with their bodies to protect their brothers. There are countless other examples of valor, heroism and sacrifice our countrymen have exhibited under fire during these wars.
Safyan,
“I feel nothing when i hear of a Predator drone bombing someone’s home. Screw them. I don’t care if i die either. I don’t care if someone kills a bunch of people anywhere anymore.” (Safyan)
This is the saddest thing that I have ever read. You are like a living dead man; a Zombie who lack full consciousness. You feel nothing. Somewhere on the road you have lost your soul. I really feel sorry for you, I really do.
“I’m just saying i find it an extraordinary display of courage to do something like that. The whole rampage, carnage… just a handful of young boys of my age causing so much destruction, bringing millions of people to their knees.” (Safyan)
Yes, no consciousness at all. You are not able to make a distinction between courage and cowardliness, good and evil. And by the way, nobody is on their knees, this is why we fight them with courage and will win this war on terrorism. We only find their actions despicable and feel sorry for all the innocent people they have killed in vain and in such a coward way.
“Those who say they were afraid to face the commando’s and the military are out of their f’ng minds. They knew they were going to die. They walked into their own deaths. God bless the souls of those sick maniacs.” (Safyan)
Those terrorists do not value life; they only value death and the promised 72 virgins waiting for them in hell. These people do not have the courage to live and try to make the World a better place for Humans. They have no guts. They are incapable of the least fertility and capable only to envy the other fertility, this is why a destruction spirit animates them.
Safyan, I in no way consider you representative of the views of Pakistanis. However, unlike Craig, I do not feel sorry for you in the least.
I’ll repeat. Dying is the easy exit for cowards. It is living, and the quest to change what takes place around you that is difficult.
Assuming your “teen” years are similar to ours, you have lived in a violent world as a teen for over a decade…. perhaps longer in your younger years. That’s two Prime Minister terms of Benazir Bhutto, three of Nawaz Sharif, and one of Musharraf (and three or four others inbetween until Gilani today). Pakistan did not become an ally with the US in the fight against the global jihad movement until after Sept 11, 2001. That is seven years.
So it’s telling that when you speak of being “desensitized” to homeland violence, you single out the US as the cause with the predator drones. They have not been flying in your airspace since your teens.
Your violence does not come from the US, but from the terrorist elements who live in your homeland who wish to force Shariah law and strict fundamentalist Islam upon your country. Your fellow country men and women do not desire this, and have stated so via elections.
Why do I not feel sorry for you? You’re 23 years old, and you are a quitter. You are the quintessential victim “woe is me” mentality.
Look around your region and you will find the lives of the Iraqis under Saddam were no picnic, and fraught with raids in the middle of the night and mass graves. The Israelis and Palestinians also live with such constant violence in their lives. North Africa also experiences such nightmares as part of their lives. Many nations have lived under despots and dictators, or in a world constantly at war… and many have achieved change.
But they didn’t do it because they were nations of quitters like you.
Our men and women in our armed forces can, and do enlist, at the age of 18. We have those younger than you who not only see the same carnage you see, but are the actual targets in the sights of the enemies. Unlike you, they do not abandon their hope and humanity to “desensitization”.
The difference between you, and those in the above nations – and our military personnel – is that they do not give up. They remain outraged that such a small minority of violent thugs affect other innocent human’s daily lives. They fight with every fiber of their being to change that.
You? You consider these animals “courageous”.
You say you know it’s wrong, but you give yourself a “pass” because it’s how you “feel”. Camel manure…. you’re lazy, self-indulgent, and weak.
No, Safyan. I do not consider you representative of your fellow Pakistanis. I admire their independence, their quest for modernization and to engage with the rest of the world. And I most admire their determination not to settle for violence, but to fight for peace in their lives.
No, you do not speak the views of your countrymen. You are embarrassment to Pakistanis.
Mata, I agree with your comment to Safyan. This is why I said I was sorry for him to be who he chose to be. It is very sad to realize that some young kids like him give up on live so easily. I have no admiration for them. I can only pity them for their bad choices. Indifference is the worst thing that can happen to someone. When you become indifferent to your fellowmen, you are already dead.
All this glorification of the ‘courage’ of terrorists is rather silly. It requires no courage to die if you are stoned on drugs and think you will go to paradise and have sex with 49 virgins if you die. In fact it is really quite dumb. These silly youths are being used as cheap ammo by the leaders who will never go on suicide missions themselves because they love their own lives too much. They ask young, silly people to go instead.
Terrorists and their supporters(all islamofanatics) will never win against the US and its allies.
They are actually fighting against the modern world.
Look, the terrorists just LOST everything and their grandmother also in Iraq. They got kicked out of afghanistan and had to run like DOGS to hide in Waziristan. They are losers who only manage a small victory now and then. In one week, everything will go back to the same in Mumbai. What did you win??? Nothing.
Win small, lose big.
These islamojerkoffs are not like the chinese, who after making the US military leave vietnam, managed to change their societies and build thriving economies that are slowing entering the modern world in terms of human rights, democracy and social maturity. SEAsia and china have lent almost a trillion dollars to america.(OK, not N.Korea, but that is because Kim is an idiot)
In contrast do we see anything from the arab world??? Name one global product that comes from the middle east, besides terrorism. Honda, Toyota??? Sony?? Microsoft????
Please, these terrorists are the laughing stock of the world.
PS–I understand terrorist hero Azam is being used for porn films now by the bollywood porn industry. They love the way he begs for mercy.
it is clear from the comments that annihilation of pakistanis is inevitable and righteous. everlasting pain and evil upon your evil sperm