Thanks for the support and the meditation of the dispute between myself and Missy. It was late last night and I actually misaddressed more than one comment. The filter also threw off the rhythm of my dialogue. I apologize to Missy and Nobrain for misaddressing comments to them.

You got it right, Word, the following post *should* have been addressed as follows:

USMCDaughter,

Please explain how you became the arbiter of what is ripe for debate and what is sacred. Take your sanctimonious patriotism *by atttribution* and clutch it to your heart. Meanwhile, I’ll exercise my right to express myself, even in the inner sanctum of FA, the self-appointed last bastion of patriotism.

Which was a response to this post:

“Look…when it comes to our troops leave the BS at the door. Period. Just because someone jumps off a cliff doesn’t mean you have to jump to the occassion no?

We want to debate, dissect, disseminate etc. there are topics to do so. This isn’t it.

Rant off.”

USMCDaughter,

I don’t appreciate be lectured on supporting our troops, or proper blogging etiquette, just because your father was a Marine (Hence, the “patriotism by attribution” comment). I don’t go around calling myself ArmyAirCorpsSon or USMCFatherinlaw, or AFRetiree, though I could.
I know it’s just a blog handle, but I don’t believe it was chosen without purpose, given the attitude you project in your posts. Remember it was your dad that served. And if you have served also, take credit for your service, not his.

Despite the original intention of this thread, Hard Right took it in another direction. Civility is for sissies, and Hard, after all, is “Hard.” And if I want take exception to to what he said, I will. Nobody appointed you hall monitor.

BTW, you are the last one to be giving anyone lectures on respect or blogging etiquette:

“Dave, who piddled in your Wheaties this morning? Learn some respect without the caveats.
From what I saw, she wasn’t asking YOU for jack. In fact, she wasn’t even ADDRESSING you so take your attitude and keep it to your own miserable self.”

You don’t need to be a busybody and defend Missy, she can take care of herself.

Nobrain, I misattributed the “gutless wonder” comment to you, but you did call me a troll without knowing anything about me. I hope your son is safe.

Finally, Missy, thank you for the account of the Son Tay raid.

Thanks, again, Word.

Still, have no idea why my #8 comment generated that kind of response from you.

My first impression is that Dave made a mistake when he addressed this:

@Dave Noble comment #10:

Missy,

Please explain how you became the arbiter of what is ripe for debate and what is sacred. Take your sanctimonious patriotism *by atttribution* and clutch it to your heart. Meanwhile, I’ll exercise my right to express myself, even in the inner sanctum of FA, the self-appointed last bastion of patriotism.

At you. My guess is he got your name mixed up since, I don’t think Dave would take issue with anything you said in comment #8. Especially this gracious tone from you:

Greatful to the French soldier that chose to share this with us. Bless them all.

I don’t consider Dave a troll and taking this story with a modicum of humility as well as pride in our own soldiers is the right path. Making ourselves feel good at the expense of putting down our “allies”/allies, in good-natured fun and in honest criticism is appropriate when deserved; but we should also shy away from generalities as well as not validate the arrogance Americans are said to have (although Americans aren’t unique in this kind of pride).

No US forces died during the Son Tay raid. I think one of the guys broke an ankle, that’s it. It was a failed mission, at least that is the way those on the mission personally considered it at the time. After the mission they flew to a hospital in Thailand where the prisoners were to be brought, it was all decked out with welcome home banners, flowers and balloons. Our SF troops sank down on the floor and cried, believe that?, that’s what happened. They were dropped in 10 miles north of Hanoi. They were ready to die to get our POWs back, those were the kind of men I personally knew then and have no doubt that that’s what we have serving today.

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1249

I will just add, hopefully I’m remembering this enough to give a good account of the bravery of those involved in that mission.

They flew out of Thailand with, if I remember it correctly, four helicopters that flew up under the wings of a C130. After they got in the air they shut the engines of the helicopters off because they wouldn’t have the fuel to fly from Thailand to Hanoi and back, they relied on the suction of the C130 to carry them to Vietna,. When they got to the site they crashed one of the helicopters to draw the enemy away from the camp. Those in that helicopter had to bail out in enemy territory and work their way back to where the rest of the troops were that were doing the rescue.

These men were chosen from several SF groups, they trained from August, 1970 until November 1970 in Florida. All got in, all got out but tragically and unknown to them, the POWs were moved by the enemy before they got there.

These are examples of the brave people that were in our military then and we have the same caliber in our military today. Read Jawbreaker, Lone Survivor and other recounts of what our troops personally experienced. There is no reason to be cowered or ashamed of supporting our brave troops. It’s almost unbelievable what they put themselves up against be it Special Forces or regular troops, they are to be proud of.

Look at your post at #8. You’re missing my post which I believe is in the filter. I thought my addendum to that post was conciliatory, but apparently not – You don’t give a crap because you know what our troops are made of. For the record, so do I. Why assume otherwise?

However, that post should have been more specifically addressed to USMCDaugther, for which I apologize. But since you want to address my view of our troops – I value their service and I’m sorry about your ex if he lost his life in the Son Tay raid. If you are interested in more context, please wait for my post to pass through the filter or I will repost it.

I personally know what our troops are made of and don’t give a crap about what you think about it. Have no idea why you even directed this comment to me.

My recollection is that your husband has done substantial service for our country. I honor his service and your invaluable support, but that does not give you a rhetorical free pass.

20 years of military service to my country and a far more extensive presence on this site, but I didn’t tow the line ideologically. How ironic that I’m the troll. Nobrain’s definition of a troll: Someone who doesn’t give me a rhetorical high-five. Old barroom rule: Don’t ever pick a fight with someone you don’t know.

Missy,

Please explain how you became the arbiter of what is ripe for debate and what is sacred. Take your sanctimonious patriotism *by atttribution* and clutch it to your heart. Meanwhile, I’ll exercise my right to express myself, even in the inner sanctum of FA, the self-appointed last bastion of patriotism.

Nobrain,

How dare I challenge your depiciton of the majority of Frenchmen, whom you have no way of knowing, as “gutless wonders.” Somehow, that honors the service of our our soldiers? My son-in-law did two Marine Corps tours in Iraq. One in the initial invasion. Who in all the world are you to play patriotism one-upmanship with me? How many years in, Mr. Patriot? BTW, your son’s service doesnt’t count. At the same time I wish your son – the one whose ass is actually on the line – Godspeed. In the interim, face me straight up like a man and don’t hide behind your son’s service.

I’m sure you son will do us proud and thank him for his service. This message is something you can take to heart knowing that your son *is with the best* and *he* is one of them.

Greatful to the French soldier that chose to share this with us. Bless them all.

All I can say is WOW!

Hopefully my son, who just deployed to Afghanistan, can live up to this wonderful depiction of America’s best.