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And then I read this (via L.com): http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/09/bailout-plan.html
‘You won’t believe where that $700-billion bailout figure came from
“It’s not based on any particular data point,” a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. “We just wanted to choose a really large number.”
They made it up to be sufficiently ginormous to frighten everyone into rapid action.
And it worked.’
…
Missy
15 years ago
Kitty, the name for it is the “Cloward-Piven Strategy.”
“The strategy of forcing political change through orchestrated crisis. The “Cloward-Piven Strategy” seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse.”
For years they knew this was coming and fought any attempt to reform it. It’s a democrat self-made crisis they hoped to use the tax payers money to further their goal/dream, socialism.
Bush was going to cave, Paulson was on their side, they had pretty much lined everything up in their favor until Big Bad John threw a monkey wrench into it. I’m not liking this deal, but think we can be thankful this happened now and not if and when the dems control Congress with Obama in the Oval Office. It would have been worse.
Missy
15 years ago
Shoot, my post got lost in the spam filter.
Thanks for this really informative post Mike’s America. I hope it gets posted all over the net!!!
ThomNJ
15 years ago
SEC. 109. FORECLOSURE MITIGATION EFFORTS – I think that section should be replaced with a statement to the effect that people should pay their bills……or mortgages or whatever. Just in perusing the document quickly at this point, it is so full of loose language that the bill probably means whatever someone wants it to mean. Lots of verbiage that can surely be stretched to cover a myriad of items….the deal is supposed to minimize the impact on the national debt. If we already cannot quantify the potential damage other than saying it would be really, really bad, then how can one say to minimize it – there is no basis for reference of many issues. I would rather have seen a bill that would address short term credit markets and the like to ensure that businesses in this country can operate and then let the financial markets sort themselves out without our tax dollars. Shift the debt side over to some market driven solution where sound institutions or individuals could pick up the debt for whatever pennies on the dollar that they can. I don’t see the bill as much more than a Wall Street save, and I see small individual investors still getting hammered in the long run with damage to IRAs and 401ks no matter what. Secretary Paulsen is a smart guy, but I believe that he has a tremendous amount of allegiance to Wall Street as opposed to Ma and Pa Kettle.
As an aside, there are an awful lot of people on Wall Street who believe it is their right to do whatever they want with investors’ money, and the investor shouldn’t complain in their view, because “the investor makes some money too” (emphasis on some). You’ll notice though that whenever an investment loses money due to their advice or shenanigans – they still get their ususal sum. And as a matter of fact, if the investment just barely makes money, it will still be a loser for you – since their fee will drive it into the negatve return category – but you never get that kind of accounting as an investor in mutual funds or the like. Sorry to go off toppic, but it just makes me leery of trusting ANY of these guys, and most especially the lawyer filled Congress.
Missy
15 years ago
They already passed a bail out in July. What kind of nerve to come back for more?
James Terry, Chief Public Advocate for the Consumer Rights League was interviewed on FOX this morning. He said we are already on the hook for billions from the earlier bill. I googled and found that Terry has testified before Congress regarding the housing mess and ACORN’s illegal behavior.
This was posted at the CRL site, from an editorial published by Congressman Ed Royce right after it passed:
“Perhaps less obvious than the $300 billion bailout, but in many respects more egregious, is an affordable housing fund which would funnel as much as $600 million every year to activist organizations under the guise of promoting affordable housing. This plan takes a percentage the GSEs’ total new business and redistributes it to groups like ACORN and La Raza with lengthy histories of both voter fraud and anti-free market advocacy at the local, state, and national levels. So while the chance of a government bailout of these two struggling institutions remains a real threat, we will begin levying a tax dedicated to fund these groups. And what would be the penalty should one of these organizations be found to have misused the taxpayer funds? Today’s legislation would simply require repayment of the misused funds and anything left from the initial grant. Additionally, there is nothing to prevent these groups from going back the very next year to receive additional money from this slush fund. Regardless of where the taxpayer money actually goes, because it is fungible, the government is subsidizing all of these groups’ activities whether we intend to or not. ”
And Dems attempted to scew the taxpayers and send even MORE money to ACORN in this current bill. Too bad we didn’t also use this occasion to void that provision in the July bill.
I totally agree with what Missy says here so will repeat it:
Bush was going to cave, Paulson was on their side, they had pretty much lined everything up in their favor until Big Bad John threw a monkey wrench into it. I’m not liking this deal, but think we can be thankful this happened now and not if and when the dems control Congress with Obama in the Oval Office. It would have been worse.
Scrapiron
15 years ago
If McCain had not returned to D.C. and fired up the republicans to clean up the $700 dollar give away bill the democrats add on’s (payoff’s with tax dollars to those who bribe the democrats for votes) would have expanded to a trillion dollars and more.
Hussein O ($126,000 in bribes in 3 years above the table and millions under the table), Peeeloshi, Reid, Dodd, Chuckie, Murtha, Waters, and Frank along with dozens of others should be facing the same federal judge that the theives at Fannie and Freddie are soon to face.
suek
15 years ago
>>Hussein O ($126,000 in bribes in 3 years above the table and millions under the table), Peeeloshi, Reid, Dodd, Chuckie, Murtha, Waters, and Frank along with dozens of others should be facing the same federal judge that the theives at Fannie and Freddie are soon to face.>>
You wish. Right up there with Jamie Gorelick????
I wish too, but somehow, I don’t think it’s going to happen.
And if HO wins the election, he’ll be immune and they’ll be putting everyone else in jail.
Dan Wroblewski
15 years ago
I would like to know why taxpayer’s money has to be spent to solve the problem?
The government could temporarily suspend the capital gains tax and call for money coming from the market to shore up the economy. They could insure the mortgage debt instead of writing a check to protect homeowners and not have to socialize our financial economy.
This would be similar to what was done in Sweden, which seemed to work.
I would also like to know why the same democrats who blocked oversight (Barney Frank, Chuck Shumer, and Chris Dodd to mention the main ones) should be in charge of, and so in favor of this so-called rescue plan. I think they should be excluded from participating in the program since they where particularly instrumental in the problem. I would also like to make sure that special interest groups like Acorn do not get any of these funds.
People need to hear the truth and the names of both senators and congressmen who created this with their votes need to be exposed. Maybe we can get a real election with people who will start looking out for us.
bbartlog
15 years ago
The government could temporarily suspend the capital gains tax
Temporarily suspending the gains tax will cause the stock market to go down. Basically everyone will want to sell now (while the tax is suspended) but not want to buy now and sell later (when the tax is reinstated). If you want to juice the market, you have to credibly cut the capital gains tax for at least the medium term and preferably indefinitely.
They could insure the mortgage debt instead of writing a check to protect homeowners
If this were first and foremost just some sort of crisis of confidence, then having the government step up as an insurer would be a good measure. But the losses we are dealing with are mostly real, and you can’t just make them vanish by having the government act to insure the mortgage debt; that just leaves the government on the hook in a slightly different way.
And by the way, ‘writing a check to protect homeowners’ is not really the plan. The bailout is not constructed to pay the obligations of those currently defaulting on their mortgages. Of course, if the government buys up all these worthless mortgages I suppose it could handle the defaults and foreclosures in a number of different ways, but as I understand it Paulson would be buying entire enterprises and not just bundles of bad debt.
BevAnn
15 years ago
I smell Rats in Congress. Red Flags are going up everywhere.
Time to rip the lid off of this can of worms!
Why are they trying to pass this bill so fast?
The only ultimate ‘crisis’ I see is the closure of the subprime credit market.
That would be a GOOD thing, considering that is what caused this mess, but I doubt the sub prime market is what is shoring up our economy, and if it is, then that has to end anyway as shaky credit is NOT an investment, it is a risky gamble, NOT a foundation for a stable & strong economy!
We need to demand mandatory prison sentences for any elected government representative who betrays the public’s trust or acts outside her best interests.
With no painful penalties, these abuses will continue to occur undeterred.
Why is most of Congress being shut out of the Bail Out negotiations & not provided any details, yet asked to vote on behalf of us? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S27yitK32ds
Am I the only one who smells a skunk?
KCG
15 years ago
How is that tasty humble pie?
You wrote “If the current compromise passes, as many insist it must to avoid financial disaster, there will be only one man to thank: John McCain!”
Let me guess, you’re planning a new post on how we need to blame McCain for failing to drum up enough republican support right?
Oh wait, I forgot that logic and rational thinking doesn’t work in your small little world.
John McCain is a great man. What kind of man is Obama?
http://thenewconservatives.blogspot.com/
And then I read this (via L.com):
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/09/bailout-plan.html
‘You won’t believe where that $700-billion bailout figure came from
“It’s not based on any particular data point,” a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. “We just wanted to choose a really large number.”
They made it up to be sufficiently ginormous to frighten everyone into rapid action.
And it worked.’
…
Kitty, the name for it is the “Cloward-Piven Strategy.”
“The strategy of forcing political change through orchestrated crisis. The “Cloward-Piven Strategy” seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse.”
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/barack_obama_and_the_strategy.html
For years they knew this was coming and fought any attempt to reform it. It’s a democrat self-made crisis they hoped to use the tax payers money to further their goal/dream, socialism.
Bush was going to cave, Paulson was on their side, they had pretty much lined everything up in their favor until Big Bad John threw a monkey wrench into it. I’m not liking this deal, but think we can be thankful this happened now and not if and when the dems control Congress with Obama in the Oval Office. It would have been worse.
Shoot, my post got lost in the spam filter.
Thanks for this really informative post Mike’s America. I hope it gets posted all over the net!!!
SEC. 109. FORECLOSURE MITIGATION EFFORTS – I think that section should be replaced with a statement to the effect that people should pay their bills……or mortgages or whatever. Just in perusing the document quickly at this point, it is so full of loose language that the bill probably means whatever someone wants it to mean. Lots of verbiage that can surely be stretched to cover a myriad of items….the deal is supposed to minimize the impact on the national debt. If we already cannot quantify the potential damage other than saying it would be really, really bad, then how can one say to minimize it – there is no basis for reference of many issues. I would rather have seen a bill that would address short term credit markets and the like to ensure that businesses in this country can operate and then let the financial markets sort themselves out without our tax dollars. Shift the debt side over to some market driven solution where sound institutions or individuals could pick up the debt for whatever pennies on the dollar that they can. I don’t see the bill as much more than a Wall Street save, and I see small individual investors still getting hammered in the long run with damage to IRAs and 401ks no matter what. Secretary Paulsen is a smart guy, but I believe that he has a tremendous amount of allegiance to Wall Street as opposed to Ma and Pa Kettle.
As an aside, there are an awful lot of people on Wall Street who believe it is their right to do whatever they want with investors’ money, and the investor shouldn’t complain in their view, because “the investor makes some money too” (emphasis on some). You’ll notice though that whenever an investment loses money due to their advice or shenanigans – they still get their ususal sum. And as a matter of fact, if the investment just barely makes money, it will still be a loser for you – since their fee will drive it into the negatve return category – but you never get that kind of accounting as an investor in mutual funds or the like. Sorry to go off toppic, but it just makes me leery of trusting ANY of these guys, and most especially the lawyer filled Congress.
They already passed a bail out in July. What kind of nerve to come back for more?
James Terry, Chief Public Advocate for the Consumer Rights League was interviewed on FOX this morning. He said we are already on the hook for billions from the earlier bill. I googled and found that Terry has testified before Congress regarding the housing mess and ACORN’s illegal behavior.
This was posted at the CRL site, from an editorial published by Congressman Ed Royce right after it passed:
“Perhaps less obvious than the $300 billion bailout, but in many respects more egregious, is an affordable housing fund which would funnel as much as $600 million every year to activist organizations under the guise of promoting affordable housing. This plan takes a percentage the GSEs’ total new business and redistributes it to groups like ACORN and La Raza with lengthy histories of both voter fraud and anti-free market advocacy at the local, state, and national levels. So while the chance of a government bailout of these two struggling institutions remains a real threat, we will begin levying a tax dedicated to fund these groups. And what would be the penalty should one of these organizations be found to have misused the taxpayer funds? Today’s legislation would simply require repayment of the misused funds and anything left from the initial grant. Additionally, there is nothing to prevent these groups from going back the very next year to receive additional money from this slush fund. Regardless of where the taxpayer money actually goes, because it is fungible, the government is subsidizing all of these groups’ activities whether we intend to or not. ”
http://www.consumersrightsleague.org/news/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=23103
My post is in the filter again.
And Dems attempted to scew the taxpayers and send even MORE money to ACORN in this current bill. Too bad we didn’t also use this occasion to void that provision in the July bill.
I totally agree with what Missy says here so will repeat it:
If McCain had not returned to D.C. and fired up the republicans to clean up the $700 dollar give away bill the democrats add on’s (payoff’s with tax dollars to those who bribe the democrats for votes) would have expanded to a trillion dollars and more.
Hussein O ($126,000 in bribes in 3 years above the table and millions under the table), Peeeloshi, Reid, Dodd, Chuckie, Murtha, Waters, and Frank along with dozens of others should be facing the same federal judge that the theives at Fannie and Freddie are soon to face.
>>Hussein O ($126,000 in bribes in 3 years above the table and millions under the table), Peeeloshi, Reid, Dodd, Chuckie, Murtha, Waters, and Frank along with dozens of others should be facing the same federal judge that the theives at Fannie and Freddie are soon to face.>>
You wish. Right up there with Jamie Gorelick????
I wish too, but somehow, I don’t think it’s going to happen.
And if HO wins the election, he’ll be immune and they’ll be putting everyone else in jail.
I would like to know why taxpayer’s money has to be spent to solve the problem?
The government could temporarily suspend the capital gains tax and call for money coming from the market to shore up the economy. They could insure the mortgage debt instead of writing a check to protect homeowners and not have to socialize our financial economy.
This would be similar to what was done in Sweden, which seemed to work.
I would also like to know why the same democrats who blocked oversight (Barney Frank, Chuck Shumer, and Chris Dodd to mention the main ones) should be in charge of, and so in favor of this so-called rescue plan. I think they should be excluded from participating in the program since they where particularly instrumental in the problem. I would also like to make sure that special interest groups like Acorn do not get any of these funds.
People need to hear the truth and the names of both senators and congressmen who created this with their votes need to be exposed. Maybe we can get a real election with people who will start looking out for us.
The government could temporarily suspend the capital gains tax
Temporarily suspending the gains tax will cause the stock market to go down. Basically everyone will want to sell now (while the tax is suspended) but not want to buy now and sell later (when the tax is reinstated). If you want to juice the market, you have to credibly cut the capital gains tax for at least the medium term and preferably indefinitely.
They could insure the mortgage debt instead of writing a check to protect homeowners
If this were first and foremost just some sort of crisis of confidence, then having the government step up as an insurer would be a good measure. But the losses we are dealing with are mostly real, and you can’t just make them vanish by having the government act to insure the mortgage debt; that just leaves the government on the hook in a slightly different way.
And by the way, ‘writing a check to protect homeowners’ is not really the plan. The bailout is not constructed to pay the obligations of those currently defaulting on their mortgages. Of course, if the government buys up all these worthless mortgages I suppose it could handle the defaults and foreclosures in a number of different ways, but as I understand it Paulson would be buying entire enterprises and not just bundles of bad debt.
I smell Rats in Congress. Red Flags are going up everywhere.
Time to rip the lid off of this can of worms!
Why are they trying to pass this bill so fast?
The only ultimate ‘crisis’ I see is the closure of the subprime credit market.
That would be a GOOD thing, considering that is what caused this mess, but I doubt the sub prime market is what is shoring up our economy, and if it is, then that has to end anyway as shaky credit is NOT an investment, it is a risky gamble, NOT a foundation for a stable & strong economy!
We need to demand mandatory prison sentences for any elected government representative who betrays the public’s trust or acts outside her best interests.
With no painful penalties, these abuses will continue to occur undeterred.
Obama connected to Fannie Mae CEOs
Who sent money to Obama’s Campaign who are connected to the recent (and future?) Bail Outs and why?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb1SGOs3jfM
Why is most of Congress being shut out of the Bail Out negotiations & not provided any details, yet asked to vote on behalf of us?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S27yitK32ds
Am I the only one who smells a skunk?
How is that tasty humble pie?
You wrote “If the current compromise passes, as many insist it must to avoid financial disaster, there will be only one man to thank: John McCain!”
Let me guess, you’re planning a new post on how we need to blame McCain for failing to drum up enough republican support right?
Oh wait, I forgot that logic and rational thinking doesn’t work in your small little world.
Watching from afar I have no personal stake in this shouting match but I linked this entry today because there is a lot of good information in it.
As we all know the bill didn’t pass — the world had a collective heart attack — and tonight there is to be another vote.
We’ll see how that goes but there is a video on my site that all Americans may be interested in watching. Things are not as they appear.