Thoughts & Reaction On Tonight’s Debate, Update: More Reaction

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I think McCain looked great while Obama, while reducing the uh’s and ah’s, looked just ok. It was apparent throughout the whole thing that McCain dominated him, especially on foreign policy. Obama was good at putting out the prepared boilerplate economic positions but still got his ass handed to him by McCain. I’ve never been a huge McCain fan but he showed me tonight he is the most ready to become President of the United States.

Oh, and lets not forget the gaffes….

Here is Obama trying to get a “me to” moment in by referring to a troop bracelet he wore, but didn’t know the name of the soldier on it:

This one is a doozy. He said during the debate that the level of diplomacy he would show to Iran and company would not be Presidential. Big problem, his site says different:

Diplomacy: Obama supports tough, direct presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions.

And has said as much during interviews:

At A September 2007 Press Conference, Obama Confirmed That He Would Meet Specifically With Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Question: “Senator, you’ve said before that you’d meet with President Ahmadinejad …” Obama: “Uh huh.” Question: “Would you still meet with him today?” Obama: “Yeah, nothing’s changed with respect to my belief that strong countries and strong presidents talk to their enemies and talk to their adversaries. I find many of President Ahmadinejad’s statements odious and I’ve said that repeatedly. And I think that we have to recognize that there are a lot of rogue nations in the world that don’t have American interests at heart. But what I also believe is that, as John F. Kennedy said, we should never negotiate out of fear but we should never fear to negotiate.” (Sen. Barack Obama, Press Conference, New York, NY, 9/24/07)

Here’s the video of the exchange:

Oh, and what would Kissinger say? Here he is tonight:

Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality.

There are other gaffes and falsehoods Obama uttered, like the fact that Obama said al-Qaeda was not in Iraq prior to us invading. Complete and utter falsehood, but what do you expect when you get your talking points from KOS.

Or how about this on Pakistan:

OBAMA: Nobody talked about attacking Pakistan. Here’s what I said.

Uh, riiiiight:

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Wednesday that he would possibly send troops into Pakistan to hunt down terrorists, an attempt to show strength when his chief rival has described his foreign policy skills as naive.

Paul Mirengoff hits the nail on the head:

“I agree with Senator McCain that. . .” vs. “What Senator Obama doesn’t seem to understand is. . .”

At the end of the day, those two oft-repeated phrases sum up tonight’s debate. McCain was the teacher; Obama was the promising but somewhat disappointing student — the one who knows lots of facts but ultimtely doesn’t quite get the big picture

In reaching this verdict, I don’t want to give the impression did Obama did badly. To the contrary, I think he debated quite well for the most past. Certainly, his performance should end the mantra of certain critics that Obama can’t handle himself without a tele-prompter. The problem for Obama was not his performance; his problem was that once McCain got past his dreadful first “round” of the debate, he excelled. McCain was more knowledgeable, more to the point, keener on the attack, and (above all) deeper than Obama.

The reality is that, when he’s in form, McCain is deeper than just about anyone. Recall his debates with Mitt Romney (and a cast of thousands). Romney was articulate (probably more so than Obama) and knowledgeable. But McCain had an octave that Romney just couldn’t reach (though Giuliani did at times). McCain hit those notes frequently tonight; Obama couldn’t reach them any more than Romney could.

Ed Morrissey:

Substantially, McCain also bested Obama on both economics and foreign policy. On the former, it was most apparent when Lehrer asked both candidates what they would cut as President after the bailout package passes. Obama could not bring himself to commit to one single cut, and instead talked about all of the funding he wanted to create for pet programs. McCain noted that he has long championed spending reductions and proposed a spending freeze on all but the most vital programs. When challenged on this point, Obama refused to say whether he would accept a freeze.

Lastly, some very fast work from the McCain camp:

UPDATE

More reaction:

ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos: “These guys came to play on each other’s turf. It was really surprising to me is that John McCain came in here with a disadvantage on the economy. Barack Obama had a big advantage, yet I think [McCain] spent the 30 minutes very effectively pounding home the points that have to control spending and earmarks.” (ABC News’ “Vote 08: The Candidates Debate,” 9/26/08)

Stephanopoulos: “I thought other interesting stylistic differences, John McCain, good on emotion, good on establishing emotional connections with his stories.” (ABC News’ “Vote 08: The Candidates Debate,” 9/26/08)

MSNBC’s Pat Buchanan: “John McCain clearly won this battle on points. He was aggressive all evening long. He was very tough. He constantly portrayed Barack directly and indirectly as sort of weak and indecisive and inconstant making these statements. He also had a most powerful, emotional moments. I think that Wolfsborough story and that 640 guys re-upping in Iraq, and that woman giving him that bracelet–I think those things reached the heart and the gut. I will say this about Barack Obama. He did what he had to do in the sense that he came off as a tough fellow, a counterpuncher who would stand up to John McCain, and I think he helped himself in that regard, but overall I really think John McCain came off as the winner of this debate, but I go directly to Chris’ point.” (MSNBC’s “Presidential Debate,” 9/26/08)

The New York Times’ David Brooks: “I think McCain was sharp and experienced.” (PBS’ “Post-Debate Analysis,” 9/26/08)

MSNBC‘s Norah O’Donnell: “He [McCain] had a good night on the very issue of taxes and spending.  He did seem to dominate the first 30 minutes.” (MSNBC’s “Presidential Debate,” 9/26/08)

National Review Online‘s Jim Geraghty: “From where I sit, McCain had a surprisingly strong night.” (Jim Geraghty, “A Surprisingly Strong Night For McCain, While Obama Energizes His Base,” National Review Online‘s “The Campaign Spot” Blog, campaignspot.nationalreview.com, 9/26/08)

Geraghty: “But the overall message of the night was clear – McCain is smart, familiar with the issues on a striking level of detail, knows what he wants to do: ‘I don’t think I need any on the job training. I’m ready to go right now… I know how to deal with our adversaries, and I know how to deal with our friends.'” (Jim Geraghty, “A Surprisingly Strong Night For McCain, While Obama Energizes His Base,” National Review Online‘s “The Campaign Spot” Blog, campaignspot.nationalreview.com, 9/26/08)

WSJ’s Sue Davis: “Obama To McCain: You’re ‘Absolutely Right'” (Susan Davis, “Obama To McCain: You’re ‘Absolutely Right,'” The Wall Street Journal’s “Washington Wire” Blog, blogs.wsj.com, 9/26/08)

CBS’ Jeff Greenfield: “I also think that McCain in the section on foreign policy also gave a strong performance when he said we can’t snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.” (CBS News’ “Campaign ’08 Presidential Debate,” 9/26/08)

NBC‘s Tom Brokaw: “That was the most distinctive difference obviously once we got into the area of national security. John McCain bored in on Barack Obama. He’s been reading the same polls we all have. There are grave reservations in most of the polls about whether Barack Obama has enough experience and whether he’s qualified to be commander in chief. And tonight Senator McCain went right after that vulnerability in Barack Obama.” (NBC’s “Presidential Debate Coverage,” 9/26/08)

The Politico’s Jeanne Cummings: “When we moved into foreign affairs, clearly john McCain hit his stride. It is his strength, and he showed, demonstrated that he is quite knowledgeable.” (PBS’ “Post-Debate Analysis,” 9/26/08)

ABC News‘ Rick Klein: “9:12 pm CT: … This is another area where McCain is in his comfort zone. He’s having a long discussion on the preconditions line.” (Rick Klein, “Live Debate Blog,” ABC News, blogs.abcnews.com, 9/26/08)

Klein: “9:20 pm CT: Meaty discussion on Russia — with lots and lots of Russian names for McCain to pronounce. If people care about this, McCain looks strong.” (Rick Klein, “Live Debate Blog,” ABC News, blogs.abcnews.com, 9/26/08)

The Atlantic‘s Marc Ambinder: “10:19: McCain’s strong on non-Iraq foreign policy issues.” (Marc Ambinder, “The Debate: Liveblogging IV,” The Atlantic‘s “Marc Ambinder” Blog, marcambinder.theatlantic.com, 9/26/08)

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Sorry, but the balance of the race is going to come down to Sarah. She must be sharper.

My observation is, most people are not like me or the other morons here, and they don’t know the inside baseball or back story to any of what is going on and has been going on. This is why the pundits get it wrong so much of the time. Most average Joe’s and Jill’s looked at this as an opportunity to hear the men speak and to watch how they conducted themselves.

Looking at the debate through those eyes what I saw was a flustered Obama, interrupting, huffing, and stammering. There were times when Obama acted as if he believed that everyone should stop talking and listen in rapt silence whenever he spoke. I believe that is a habit for Obama that is being fed by the adoring folks he’s surrounded himself with. McCain could well use that to great benefit in future debates simply pointing out that they are NOT on a first name basis, and he is not more entitled to speak than anyone else, and it is unlikely that someone incapable of letting someone else speak is truly going to be able to hear the other persons concerns.

On that score, McCain clearly and demonstrably won.

But he needs to CLAIM that trophy or it will be forfeit.

I only hope that it really does come down to Sarah vs Biden.

Thanks to the media and their penchant for editing her comments to make them appear shallow and altering her meaning, the expectations for Sarah are going to be low and she is going to be able to shine when her comments are heard in context and in total.

And I pray she quotes Biden on how important it is that people hear their leaders speaking the truth and being accurate, especially about past trials and leaders such as who said what how about the great depression. Because if you can’t instill confidence that you know what your talking about when the subject is something every high school student should know, then how can we trust that anything you say is either honest or correct no matter how convinced you sound saying it.

So Doug,

Why not post the resullts of the Fox poll?

All Palin needs is a few dozen Biden quotes then sit back and watch him try to lie his way out of the actual quotes. Biden is dumber than a box of rocks and the people who keep electing the lying crook are dumber than he is.

FOX has no poll yet. But Luntz’s focus group is out now:

http://www.huliq.com/1/69369/obama-mccain-you-were-wrong

Bill, this is the kind of stuff that I and some members of the GOP are worried about. This won’t fly (no pun intended) in a nationally televised debate where she will be the primary focus.
Simply being a pitbull will be a turn off as well. She MUST be sharper. Sorry, but it is what it is.

“As Putin rears his head and comes into the airspace of the United States of America, where do they go? It’s Alaska. It’s just right over the border. It is from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right there.”

Bill C, you didn’t fall for Doug’s post of Hussein’s anti-american network poll, did you? I looked at the source and the network and skipped to the next comment. If anything is sourced to ABC, CBS, NBC, or CNN it’s a lie right out of the box.

As one who pulled many months of ‘nuclear’ (bomber) alert in Alaska I can say for sure the first line of defense and retaliation will come from Alaska. Funny thing is Palin is CIC of the first line of American’s defense since the National Guard units there are also on full time active duty.

Scrapiron,
No I wasn’t swallowing the bait. And the fact that the results aren’t posted on lineis weak since they anounced them on air at 82% for McCain and 17% for Obama.

Also Politico has McCain as the winner.

My intended point is, of course one neds to consider the source, and that would be the real reason Doug doesn’t cite the Fox poll, and it is the exact same reason CBS doen’t mean squash to me.

Richard,

Sounds to me like you haven’t heard Palin full in context replies.

They are anything but pitbullish. They are very clear and indepth, and above all else, honest.

She’ll do great.

You heard it here first!

Scrapiron—I understand but IMO it needs to be SHARPER, as in more intelligible. Johnny isn’t running away with this.

Fox Poll has:
McCain 84%
Obama 14%
Undecided 1%

Rob,

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Fox have a larger audience than the next three channels? So if the other channels are running close to a tie, but Fox is showing a slam dunk, that makes for a lot of un answered McCain votes.

Is my math off?

What a great debate where McCain came out as a giant and Obama as pee-wee. This Obama lies through his mouth constantly, always saying he didn’t say that, when we have all the proofs on video that he did indeed say it.

Besides, this guy has no respect, interrupts constantly, doesn’t listen and just repeat what McCain says. What a jerk! I’ve got no respect for that guy that hangs around with ex-terrorists, US/bashers and crooks.

What a freaking tool!

I don’t have to look at my KIA bracelet to remember his name. I brought his body back from Iraq.

And I didn’t have to look at the MIA bracelet that I wore for almost 20 years before that, either, because I met his parents so I could get to know the man I wore on my wrist.

I’ll never forget their names as long as I live.

But to Barry O’Bama, a KIA bracelet is a political prop, just like the American flag pin he now wears on his lapel. The same one he refused to wear a little while ago…

He’s a disgrace.

What do we really know for sure about Obama?

– He was involved with a corrupt and convicted businessman and received tens of thousands from him for his political ambitions. (Tony Rezko)

– He was involved with a terrorist whose home was where Obama started his political career. (William Ayers)

– He was involved with a racist that hated whites and who also praised Hitler for wiping out the Jews. (Luis Farakhan)

– He was involved with a pastor who was also his mentor that hates America. (Jeremiah Wright)

– He was involved in a scheme with a bank that provided him a lower interest rate which saved him tens of thousands of dollars. (Northern Trust of Illinois)

– Etc., etc…

Anybody cares to continue this list? Be my guest… Go ahead!

I can’t find a fox poll on the debate. could you show the link, Rob?

Here’s more polls:
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/09/27/Early_polls_call_Obama_winner_of_debate/UPI-45301222489321/

Here McCain comes out on top:
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/seattlepolitics/archives/149767.asp?from=blog_last3

End the end, I think Charles Krauthammer was correct when he said that

…a tie helped Obama.

But first, Krauthammer deftly contrasted their styles. “McCain is a guy who hits, he hammers, he jabs,” he said. “Obama is smooth, he’s very elegant, he was very nimble.”

Obama was never flustered or at a loss, Krauthammer added.

“I think he comes out of this neutral, and thus ahead,” Krauthammer said. “We’re now going to have the debates on the economy, which will are going to be his strong area, and McCain will be on the defensive.”

Krauthammer said the debate was a draw that helped remove a potential Obama liability on foreign policy. “I’d be surprised if McCain gets a jump in the polls as a result of this,” Krauthammer said.

It doesn’t matter how well Sarah Palin does at the VP debate, she will lose the spin. If she uses talking points or steps on her words, then the current impression will be etched in media stone. If she speaks well and gives specifics, the MSM will ignore that and focus on something else, like her appearance or demeanor. If she comes across aggressive or strong, the media will attack her for being shrill or mean (like her convention speech). Too laid back and she will be cast as weak and not a leader. The questions will focus on foreign policy and the bailout, and also on any social issues that make her look extreme. Energy will be little mentioned, and reform issues will focus on what she didn’t do in Alaska, instead of what she did. Remember, Gwen Iffel will be the moderator. I’m not looking forward to it.

Obama strong on economy? You gotta be kidding Doug! The Dems are the one responsible for this financial crisis. Dems are ZERO on economy, always were, always will. Poor Doug, where in the world do you get your informations from? In a popcorn box?

SAZMD,

Don’t worry about the Medias. Nobody cares about their opinion anymore. We all know they are biased. The important thing is how the public will judge her. And the public likes her, because she is genuine and it’s shows. She is the breath of fresh air that all Americans have been waiting for.

Let’s face it, by now 85% of everybody has made up their minds. They either support one candidate/team or the other, and they will fight tooth and nail to tear down the opposition and/or defend their candidate of choice. That’s politics. We seem to be locked at a perpetual 48%-48% virtual tie since the Reagan landslide. It’s that other 15% of the voters who will decide this election as they do every election. They are not listening to any of this. They don’t care about all these pedantic details. They care about whatever they care about, they watch whatever news they watch, they go about their lives with our candidates very low on their list of things that are important to them every day. They won’t be swayed by all our finger-pointing. We are all preaching to the choir… or whistling past the graveyard; take your choice. I don’t need any more reasons to love Sarah and therefore like John, or to find Obama unfit.

I suspect we are all doing this stuff, both sides, just to make ourselves feel better because we all – both sides – feel we will vomit if the other side wins. And we will vomit. I know I will. But I also know we won’t affect that 15% with all this avalanche of internet diarrhea.

Our side is furiously digging in Obama’s past – as his team is digging into Palin’s past – to find that bombshell or smoking gun that will be so horrible that even that 15% will take notice. It is difficult for me to think they will find anything horrible in Sarah’s past. Just some cheesy stuff that everybody’s life holds. You know… stuff we are not very proud of, but certainly not “horrible” enough to sway voters away. Obama, on the other hand, already has a ton of seriously bad stuff in his past. But the media just won’t touch it because they want him in and that’s that for them. This is tantamount to the system being rigged… and it is. Again.

We can only hope that more of that 15% will opt for McCain and his team than the other guy’s team. It will, I am sure, come down to 1% of that 15%! If that 15% doesn’t think bringing the “Chicago gang” to DC is a bad idea by now, if they don’t think Obama’s ranking as the second highest recipient of collapsing Fannie Mae’s dirty money is bad enough, or that his adult-life-long association with anti-American figures is bad enough, none of this other stuff will do it. I don’t know what it will take to convince them. Murder?

I don’t truly believe anyone is undecided. The Frank Luntz focus groups are retarded. Fox and Drudge are the biggest. What you can see is a mis-match of character here. JM is a man of principles. Those who aren’t will side with Obamabi, plain and simple. You see most of Obamabi’s supporters are not rooted in anything of importance. I’m sorry, but thats what I have experienced. I spoke to a young man who said he didn’t like Palin and I asked him to name 2 things that you don’t like, he couldn’t. That’s my point! I spoke to a women and she said Palin scares her. I asked the same thing to her. She couldn’t name 1 thing. No depth whatsoever. Character and Judgement!

We had one adult and one fidgetty un-presidential man-child.

The admiral kicked his butt.

Who do you want answer that 3AM call ?? It sure isn’t Obama, he would place it on call forward.

>>It was really surprising to me is that John McCain came in here with a disadvantage on the economy.>>

Did you see “Quigley Down Under”?

“I said I didn’t much _care_ to use a .45….I didn’t say I _couldn’t_!”

McCain said he doesn’t feel he’s very strong in economics. Maybe that’s because he knows enough to know there’s a lot he _doesn’t_ know. Obama may not have reached that level of wisdom. When has Obama ever stated that there’s something he doesn’t know about _anything_?

Given the economic crisis…how much do _you_ feel you know about economics??? Do you even understand the terms they toss around so blithely???

I came to the debate late, but watched the last 15 or 20 minutes.

What struck me was the groping for words and phrases by Obama.
It was like this was new ground to be tilled, but he could reuse old phrases if he could think of them fast enough.

To his credit, Obama wasn’t completely clueless, but on debating points, McCain blew Obama away. On details, McCain also had the lead.

The MSM pundits in the tank for Obama are all declaring Obama won the debate. But the Nobama people texing for 2 hours on Fox gave thge real tally…..McCain 86% Obama 14%. I think that is about right.

FOXNEWS:


Analysts and voters were split over who technically won the tense debate Friday night at the University of Mississippi. Neither Barack Obama nor John McCain committed a major gaffe, and both delivered strong enough performances that each campaign confidently could declare victory.

I think that’s accurate.

I haven’t seen anywhere FOX posting their ‘text messaging survey’, not in print, nor on the net. They appear to backed away from it having any legitimacy.

I watched the debates last night with my daughter, who is 15 years old. She is learning a little about politics through this coverage. She being a naive one noticed and was upset by a habit of disrespect that Senator Obama directed towards Senator McCain throughout the entire debate. That habit was Senator Obama continually referring to Senator McCain- a senior congressman and senator- as “John, or Jim, or Uh.” Very rarely did he address Senator McCain in this formal debate as Senator McCain. However we noticed that Senator McCain always addressed Senator Obama as Senator Obama during the debate. If he had addressed Senator by first name, I must have missed it. I also noticed that none of the commentators even mentioned this deliberate or subconscious lack of respect for the senior statesman.

Was Senator Obama properly instructed on the correct decorum of a presidential debate?

Maybe it was just me or the fact that my fifteen year old daughter noticed it and was upset but I am troubled that I have not seen any commentary on that.

Does anyone feel the way that I do? Is he really ready for diplomatic endeavors if he can’t really master diplomatic protocols during a presidental debate?

So today I took my dog to a swim event. A local health club opens their outdoor pools to the dogs the last day before they drain and sanitize them for the winter. You would think it would be a politics free zone, right?

Wrong.

So I’m there pulling dogs out of the pool as they finish fetching the toys tossed in for them and some sow of a gal with a Obama shirt makes a comment to me akin to how the dogs flailing away at the pool edge trying to get out were like McCain and Palin somehow.
I was flummoxed.
So I turn to her and asked with my brightest smile, “Did you watch last nights debate?”
“Oh yes” she replied.
I then enjoined her, “I have to say I really agreed with Obama! John McCain is right!”
She stood there nodding in agreement for a second or two before her face went ashen Apparently thinking, “OMG, it’s one of THEM!”

No move in the polls so far for Obama. I’m not sure this draw of a debate will favor Obama.

I did borrow the Newsies talking points and posted them on MidnightBlue, Curt.

If this was such a slam dunk for Obama, why the text messages imploring his legions of fans to watch the debate on CNN, quickly followed by a second text message allowing the fans to watch it on whatever network they prefer?

Doug, all the polls that you can show are completely irrelevant at this point. Whether from Fox or CNN or any other place you find them. Rachel explains perfectly the reason why in her comment #23 above:

Let’s face it, by now 85% of everybody has made up their minds. They either support one candidate/team or the other, and they will fight tooth and nail to tear down the opposition and/or defend their candidate of choice.

And she’s right. I know you watched the interviews of those who watched the debates, and if you turned to Fox for one second, you would have seen the two Obama-supporting women say: “I think Obama was very articulate and didn’t stutter once” and “McCain looked a little ‘bumbly'”. This made me say, “I’m sorry, did we just watch the same debate?” There are millions of videos of the debate and of Obama’s behavior throughout the night that counters what those supporters say; you know it as well as anyone else here.

And those who vote in those polls are just like these two women; they’re just going to glorify their candidate of choice, whether it’s McCain or Obama. Unless all those polls are voted on by scholars, economists, and political scientists, those polls are irrelevant. There are people who support Obama just because he’s a Democrat, not because of any policy reasons. I should know. My entire family (save for my own parents, thank God) thinks that way.