8
Aug

Philadelphia Northeast Times LTE

Posted by: Skye @ 7:57 pm in Military, The Iraqi War, War On Terror  | 9 views

I came across a remarkable letter to the editor printed in Philadelphia’s neighborhood paper, The Northeast Times. It is a rebuttal to a three page love note printed by The Northeast Times hightlighting the organization Iraq Veterans Against War.

For your perusal and commentary, you can view the original article HERE.

Below is the rebuttal to this article:

The July 24 cover story A battle cry to end the war by staff writer Jon Campisi is a flattering account of the anti-war group Iraq Veterans Against the War, which lacked a great deal of critical information needed for the Northeast Times readers to reach an informed opinion of the group, its origin, efforts and goals.

Though Campisi noted that the Iraq Veterans Against the War were formed under the patronage of the Veterans For Peace, unexamined is who are the Veterans For Peace (VFP). The leadership of VFP is almost exclusively members of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW). Vietnam Veterans Against the War are veterans who unfairly smeared their own generation of military, calling them baby killers and war criminals at the Jane Fonda-funded “tribunal” called Winter Soldier. The real story is that IVAW is really a re-enactment of the Vietnam era protests under VVAW. A lack of originality can be forgiven, but the Iraq Veterans Against the War’s decision to hold their own Winter Soldier smear is absolutely reprehensible.

This time it was the AFL-CIO who played the role of Jane Fonda and hosted Winter Soldier 2.0 at its National Labor College in Silver Spring, Md.

Similar to the original attack on the Vietnam generation, none of the “testimony” was under oath and hearsay was permitted, violating basic constitutional rights afforded Americans accused of crimes. Names of perpetrators were not required, but the “witnesses” told the world war crimes are routinely committed by our troops with the awareness of all levels of command. Additionally, the scope of IVAW’s Winter Soldier 2.0 included Afghanistan as an illegal and immoral war.

The profiles of the IVAW members featured in Jon Campisi’s account contained disingenuous elements. T.J. Buonomo was described as having five years of service. In fact, four years were at the U.S. Air Force Academy. Consider that those four years of college-level education does not count towards military retirement, and you will see his service was exaggerated. A great deal of the time left was spent in training and he never deployed — not that there’s anything wrong with that, but it was presented in a way to imply more experience and knowledge than exists.

Kelly Dougherty is described as enlisting at age 17, in a Guard unit. Other than her deployment, the commitment per year in the Reserves or Guard is one weekend a month and two weeks of active duty training, 38 days.

Shalom Keller is cited as six months in Afghanistan and 12 months in Iraq, but the writer fails to note that his experience is stale, as the situation on the ground in Iraq has dramatically changed. That is a recurring fact when looking at what many IVAW vets bring to the debate. The reality of the Iraq war has changed, but their views have not.

Overall, the anti-war movement seeks to sell as military experts, junior enlisted personnel who lack the training, experience and skills to provide a strategic opinion. They can speak to their experience, but keep in mind, their responsibilities in this war were limited to three city blocks and a dozen people. Yet, they are sent out as someone who can speak with authority, because their leaders exploit the American public’s genuine awe for our troops.

These Iraq vets posture that though they are against the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, they are as patriotic as mainstream America. That claim breaks down quickly when you look at the beliefs of the groups they support and work with, such as ANSWER, Code Pink, Vietnam Veterans Against the War and even Veterans For Peace.

ANSWER is a front for the Party for Liberation and Socialism, whose leaders preach unconditional support for the insurgents they call “the resistance,” even as they kill American troops. Code Pink has contributed $650,000 to “the resistance.” Both are endorsers of the World Tribunal on Iraq that declares that the insurgents have the moral high ground, so much so that they are entitled to commit terrorist atrocities to force the Americans out of Iraq.

Ignored in the article were initiatives prominently featured on the IVAW Web site. Tactical strategies such as “Befriend A Recruiter,” in which IVAW hopes to “shut down recruitment for this war,” participants are encouraged to not reveal their connection to IVAW or this initiative. Honest addressing of the issues, right? In the Active Duty section of the Web site one can find information on being a war resistor, appealing for redress, and conscientious objector information.

Based upon the contents of the Web site and the facts presented, it is fair to say that supporting the troops through subversion is a good characterization of this IVAW.

  • Share/Bookmark
Print This Post Print This Post
This entry was posted on Friday, August 8th, 2008 at 7:57 pm and is filed under Military, The Iraqi War, War On Terror. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

Trackbacks

57 comments so far

Scrapiron
 1Reply to this comment  

First thing to find out is how many days they actually spent in a war zone and they what their Job is/was. A motor pool mechanic didn’t see a lot of action and probably only heard distant gunfire and had to empty their underwear each time. An expert that does not make.

August 8th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
 2Reply to this comment  

As an NCO, I would dispute strongly that the only members of IVAW are “junior enlisted”. We also have members who are first sergeants, lieutenant colonels, and more. In addition, IVAW is not against Afghanistan, but only the Iraq occupation.

Another tired claim is that IVAW is somehow ‘out of date’ because some members aren’t currently in Iraq at this instant. Well, it’s true, some aren’t-but it’s also true that some are. Many of our active duty members are in Iraq as we speak, and the reason they couldn’t testify at Winter Soldier is becuase they were currently deployed. They still believe in IVAW, so apparently the situation must not have changed THAT much.

August 8th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Raoul
 3Reply to this comment  

Hey Army Sergeant,

How about a litltle “Honesty In Commenting” and IDing yourself as IVAW ?

You really don’t have a much integrity.

The experience of the people challenged is dated. It wasn’t anywhere near the level of responsibility of the Army’s leadership the IVAW attacks.

If Keller, Dougherty, yourself were in charge, troops would die from lack of food and water, basic Combat Support Services.

Situations change, IVAW’s lies haven’t.

August 9th, 2008 at 3:51 am
 4Reply to this comment  

I’m sorry, I thought when I left an email address with IVAW in it, linked to a blog which declares my IVAW affiliation, and continually talked about “our” members of IVAW, and how I as an NCO strongly disputed that it was just junior enlisted, it was made quite clear.

Here it is clearer.

I’m in IVAW! And the Army! And commenting on the blog!

August 9th, 2008 at 3:57 am
 5Reply to this comment  

Also, what in the world do you base your opinion that we couldn’t get combat support services? Any operation any of us have planned has had a full and good supply line and logistics.

August 9th, 2008 at 3:59 am
Raoul
 6Reply to this comment  

Army Sergeant,

IVAW is actively involved in subversion. Have you filed the approriate SAEDA reports according to AR 381-12?

Or are you Sgt Schultz who sees, “Nothing, nnoottthhhiing!”

August 9th, 2008 at 4:03 am
 7Reply to this comment  

IVAW is not involved in subversion, either actively or passively. I reported my own affiliation with IVAW when I went in for my last poly. I was told it was not a problem. I have had that answer reaffirmed by JAG, and my S2. What more do you want?

August 9th, 2008 at 4:08 am
Raoul
 8Reply to this comment  

Important thing to note is that when ANSWER rang the bell to call for “ringers”, military members to join their march, and be placed at the front of the march to give ANSWER credibiity, IVAW slobbered on command.

ANSWER calls for unconditional support of the resistance, which means it Army Sergeant gets killed in Iraq by an IED, you’re still supposed to support the resistance.

Actually ANSWER would be happy to see Army Sergeant get wacked by any number of groups seeking to kill Americans. At it’s heart, it’s an anti-US organization.

A “peace group” would call for a ceasefire, an end to hostilities. ANSWER has picked sides, the enemy’s side. And IVAW has supported ANSWER.

August 9th, 2008 at 4:10 am
Raoul
 9Reply to this comment  

“IVAW is not involved in subversion, either actively or passively. ”

Bullshit. Read the definition in the reg.

As far as your JAG and S2. That they don’t know what IVAW is up to is not a clean bill of health.

August 9th, 2008 at 4:18 am
Raoul
 10Reply to this comment  

“Also, what in the world do you base your opinion that we couldn’t get combat support services? Any operation any of us have planned has had a full and good supply line and logistics.”

Get? Typical liberal view, that combat support is an entitlement. It’s PFM that you just expect to appear.

None of the IVAW frontmen could figure out how to get everyone food and drink beyond standing in line where someone else provides it, much less handle the planning for the war fighting side.

Bottom line, IVAW doesn’t have the experience to offer an expert opinion on most subjects. You working way out of your rate.

August 9th, 2008 at 4:25 am
Raoul
 11Reply to this comment  

Next time I need to start up a chain of stores to compete with 7-11, I’ll go hire a disgruntled clerk of their’s to be my senior advisor.

August 9th, 2008 at 4:27 am
 12Reply to this comment  

Raoul, I don’t know where you’re getting this craziness from. Every IVAW event has had full logistical support and supply because we have made it happen. Our people have been fed, housed, had legal and mental health support, as well as many other things. I’ve been taken care of far better at IVAW events than I have at military ones.

August 9th, 2008 at 5:03 am
 13Reply to this comment  

Then it is time you resigned from the Army and worked for IVAW full-time. Thank you for illuminating where your loyalty lies, AS.

Hey, AS, have you befriended a Recruiter yet? Don’t worry, I know the rules and won’t blow your cover.

August 9th, 2008 at 5:54 am
CSM BigBird
 14Reply to this comment  

Army Sergeant huh??? Know what LDRSHIP means? You and the rest of your trash, yeah I said trash, don’t have a clue. You think your cool, your doing something against the machine. I’ve seen your kind. I go over 30yrs next month, and have to retire. Not because I want to but, 30 is max for a CSM. Unless your in a nominated position. I never wanted that. I prefer to stay down at the Soldier level.

You and your friends ARE the same as SEN sKerry and the VVAW. They tried to slime my father (Career Army,VV), and they are trying to regurgitate the same BS now. You know in your heart that if a Soldier does something wrong, we charge them, and go to trial.

I’m curious why you call yourself a “Army Sergeant” but don’t live my/our values? You spout your title loud but don’t live the life. Your a fake. Like most of the other fakes in your organization.

L=Leadership
D=Duty
R=Respect
S=Selfless Service
H=Honor
I=Integrity
P=Personal Courage

From your comments, and as a career Soldier, I must say you seem to lack most of these qualities.

CSM BigBird
PS: Wish you were in my Unit…

August 9th, 2008 at 7:25 am
 15Reply to this comment  

Yeah, Greyhawk at Mudville Gazette outed the “sh*tb@gs of the IVAW” last year, and I have not paid them any mind since.

SH!TB@GS

Phony Soldiers and Otherwise

CAST OF CHARACTERS

August 9th, 2008 at 9:35 am
 16Reply to this comment  

CSM BigBird

Yes, I do have an idea about what LDRSHIP means, and I strive my best every day to follow it. In fact I have an interesting piece written about it I’d be happy to share with you, about how my
beliefs about the war in Iraq (and really, even my membership in IVAW) stem from the Army Values.

A lot of people question how I can be a sergeant in the Army, giving my oath true weight and believing in its core values, while opposing the war in Iraq. But really, it’s easy. I believe in the Army’s purpose-it is to defend our country and protect the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I don’t think its purpose is to fight foreign wars we can’t win. Its true purpose is noble, and has been subverted by armchair soldiers, politicians who have never had to serve. They don’t know and live these values, but I do. These values don’t just dictate how we should act,
but who we are. And they support, rather than contradict, what I’m doing now by speaking out against the occupation of Iraq.

The Core Army Values

Loyalty

Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, the Army, your unit, and fellow soldiers.

Often times, superiors will try to change the order of this list, saying that loyalty to the unit or chain of command is most important. But as soldiers, we have to be sure that the order of our loyalty is to what’s right and not just what’s easiest. Nowhere in this list does it say “the current
leadership of your country and their political decisions.” I am loyal to my fellow soldiers: I do not want them to die in a purposeless war. I am loyal to the Army: I do not want it to be weakened on multiple fronts and taken away from its true purpose, defense of the Nation. I am loyal to the Constitution, which is under attack by men who have not sacrificed to protect it. I bear true faith and allegiance to these, specifically to the Constitution which founded our nation. Supporting my country, my Constitution, and my Army by criticizing current foreign policy – even though my commander might disagree with me – requires courage and loyalty. Loyalty should never be
confused with blind obedience.

Duty
Fulfill your obligations.

Our highest obligation as soldiers is to our country and the flag we salute. Our obligation as citizens and patriots compels us to defend our country in any way we can. It requires us to take full responsibility for our actions and those of our subordinates – things that the current leadership is not doing. Sometimes we will be asked to put the nation’s welfare ahead of personal safety. That is a high and noble purpose that should be followed when the welfare of the nation is at stake. But the Iraq war does not serve the nation’s welfare. It hurts America economically
and politically, and contributes to the breakdown of the military that I love.

Respect
Treat people as they should be treated.

Treat the people of the United States, as well as the people of Iraq, with consideration and honor. They deserve to be treated according to their status: if they are prisoners of war, then treat them with the full dignity accorded POWs. If they are criminals, then give them trials. Innocent until proven guilty – we do not lose our values when we step away from our shores. Understanding that all people possess worth as human beings means that we can’t treat people badly simply because they are Iraqi. Imagine that they are your family, your friends, and people from your own town.

Selfless Service
Put the welfare of the nation, the Army, and your
subordinates before your own.

Putting duty to your country before your personal desires is the highest sacrifice. It is definitely hard to stand up and devote effort and time to doing what is right, when some of your leaders so firmly believe that it is wrong. It’s hard to face the intimidation and harassment that many members of the active duty military face when they begin to speak out about what they feel. It’s hard to stand up and tell your higher-ups that they are doing the wrong thing. Yet the ability to endure hardships and insurmountable odds out of love for your country and fellow soldiers is one of the things that makes our Army and country great. It is not just our service to the military, but, as citizen-soldiers, our service to the nation as well that is the bedrock of our community. When the welfare of the nation, our continued survival as an honorable country, and the continued survival of the Army depends on some of us standing up and saying, “Sir, no Sir!,” then that is what must be done. We must say that we will not participate in illegal acts, and we will report them when and where we see them. We will not train our soldiers to commit them, and will instead train our soldiers to follow the honorable path. And the honorable path now, the hard service, means standing up and speaking the truth so that legislators can begin to realize it and bring us home.

Honor
Live up to all the Army Values.

Honor is living up to all the Army Values, and being truthful and sincere in all our actions, but it is also more than that. It is the thing I have when I have nothing else left. It is all I need. It is phrased as living up to all the Army Values because if I lack even one, I cannot be an honorable soldier. It is the ability to look myself in the mirror at the end of the day and know I have done all that I can, and that I have not had to reproach myself for anything. If something does not feel right to me, or if I feel I am having to compromise my values, then I need to challenge the situation and stand up to it. From doctoring records to mistreatment of prisoners, one should always stand up for what he or she knows to be right no matter what it costs.

Our current civilian leadership is dishonorable. Legal semantics will not change the fact that torture is torture, and good civilized people don’t do that. As Americans, we’ve always stood by our honorable treatment of others. No matter what others may say, it’s important to keep that. But we as soldiers are not being treated honorably. As soon as our soldiers have fulfilled their usefulness to the brass, they are shuffled away with “personality disorders” instead of PTSD treatment. Veterans wait years for disability payments, and benefits are cut while contractors reap huge rewards. This is not taking care of the people who have given their all to their country. It is dishonorable, and the only way to restore that honor is to stand up against the people who are doing so and will continue to do so.

Integrity
Do what is right, legally and morally.

Every soldier must possess high personal moral standards and be honest in word and deed. So why shouldn’t the civilian leadership that is appointed over us be held to those standards as well? The acceptance of torture, the belief that once Americans go beyond their borders they are no longer bound to the ideas that shaped our nation, “baiting” with weapons caches, and other such tactics, at the very least, skirt the fine line of legality – and at worst are definitely not moral. Claiming that it is okay to treat people dishonorably because they are not an organized force fighting against us is simply wrong, as is the argument that they are not citizens and, therefore, do not deserve the protection of the Constitution. We are the good guys! We do the right thing, even if others don’t, and if our leadership does not understand that, it needs to. It
needs to pull out of this war, and bring itself in line with the country’s beliefs and principles.

Personal Courage
Face fear, danger, or adversity (physical or moral).

It does not take physical courage to stand up and fight against injustice in this fashion, but it does take moral courage to do what’s right, even if it’s unpopular. If, after sober consideration, your individual values and moral principles lead you to believe the war in Iraq is wrong, hold to your position! It takes extreme moral courage to say that the country is steering in the wrong direction, and you are committed by your oath to turn it around. It takes moral courage to resist a war that your leadership believes in, or to stand against your entire platoon and state that you will not treat a prisoner with anything less than full dignity. And it takes moral courage to be counted, to let people insult you for perceived cowardice; when the truth is that you, like I, may not be against all wars, all places, all times.

But hopefully you, like I, like many committed and dedicated members of the military community, are against this one.

IAW AR 360-1, the opinions expresed are those of the writer and do not reflect the official positions or policies of the Department of Defense, Department of the Army, or the United States Government

Originally published in the SITREP summer edition, available at http://www.ivaw.org/sitrep

August 10th, 2008 at 1:31 am
 17Reply to this comment  

Also, CSM BigBird, I’ve reenlisted three times. I believe in the Army, I believe in the Oaths, I believe in my Creed. I don’t believe in the lowering of our standards and weakening of our Army so that we can find enough bodies for Iraq. I don’t believe in fighting a two-front war we didn’t need to be in for somebody else’s shits and giggles. It also might interest you to know that I personally wholeheartedly believe in Afghanistan.

August 10th, 2008 at 1:39 am
 18Reply to this comment  

Army Sergeant is a member of an MI (Military Intelligence) unit, which ought to give you some pause and reason to be concerned. Being in an MI unit he has access to intel and information which is then supplied to subordinate units for the conduct of operations. He is in a unique position to either include or leave out information in the reports.
So far to the best of my knowledge he has not committed either of these acts, which would have put him in the direct position of causing the death or injury of the soldiers caring out a mission.
Yes Sergeant I know who you are, and we have even met briefly, although you would not know who I am from Adam.
Remember the IVAW bus fire?
And just to increase your paranoia yes you passed your latest security clearance update, while at the same time having the scope of your duties reduced and your responsibilities also.
But then what do I know I Am Just A Grunt

August 10th, 2008 at 7:07 am
 19Reply to this comment  

Your attempt to make me more paranoid might have worked better if you’d gotten my gender right. I find it very hard to believe that you could have met me and still believe me to be a man. Also, you’re utterly incorrect-at the time of my last update, I had…absolutely no change to my job. I have since PCSed and now have a /different/ job..but given that I’m filling an E7 billet when I was last filling an E5/E6 one…I would submit that you’re really just clueless all over.

Are you attempting to suggest that you are responsible for the IVAW bus fire? If so, that is most definitely a criminal act, far worse than anything any IVAW member could even be imagined to have done, given that there was a person in it at the time.

August 10th, 2008 at 7:15 am
 20Reply to this comment  

Just checking to make sure you were still out there monitoring this thread Sergeant. No I had nothing to do with the fire. That was the result of a mechanical failure with the vehicle and maybe poor maintenance. But you were there. I was many states away working. Nice try though.
I did want to let you know that people are watching and sorry about the gender gaffe.
Everybody works above their pay grade. No big deal. In the words of Shania Twain, “That don’t impress me much”.
So are you planning on retiring from the very Army that you so despise? Must be a good life if you continue to reenlist. You know that thing about personal courage you are so high on? If you were really living up to that standard you would have gotten out long ago, instead you stay in. That can only lead one to believe you would rather act as a subversive force from with in.
Why don’t you tune in my radio show on BTR at noon EST? I could use all the listeners I can get.
Here is the link. Maybe I will talk about you, maybe I won’t since I have so much else that is really important to discuss.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/Just-A-Grunt

August 10th, 2008 at 7:42 am
 21Reply to this comment  

Why would I get out? My beef isn’t with the Army, it’s just with the Iraq War.

Also, no, I wasn’t there at the time of the fire. I’m not sure if you’re confusing me with someone else, or just making stuff up and trying to scattershot, but frankly, it’s a little bit creepy.

August 10th, 2008 at 7:50 am
 22Reply to this comment  

I believe in the Army’s purpose-it is to defend our country and protect the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I don’t think its purpose is to fight foreign wars we can’t win.

Just so you know, no one but authors can “see” your email, but your name is a hotlink to your site. And I did wander over. I never once thought you represented yourself as anything but IVAW.

Considering your reenlistment history, and your obvious devotion to the military, your statement above gives me pause for cause. You have identified yourself as an NCO. And the last time I looked, global or theatre strategies in war were not run by NCOs for their approval.

Each unit, each battle is part of a larger picture. While our warriors may have their opinions, it is not their place to pronounce a war “unwinnable”, as they are not in the position to have the entire spread of intel and strategy at their fingertips.

Nor is that dissenting soldier supposed to hesitate in following orders, and performing the task he/she is supposed to do… as part of that larger picture. The job you signed up for did not include your proffered judgment on what your superiors order you to do.

Your opinion, I can live with. Your chutzpah in assuming you are capable of determining what is war winnable, I can not. You are just not that high in the military food chain.

We haven’t fought a war on US soil since the Civil War. So your statement of being against “foreign wars we can’t win” is an odd and ill thought out. Are you saying we should never fight on foreign soil, or just not fight wars on foreign soil that you, personally, do not see as “winnable”? So glad you weren’t around during WWI or II.

Iraq is another theatre of Afghanistan (which you say you *do* support) in the same war against the global Islamic jihad movement that struck the US on 911.

Militant Islam fighters that believe in jihad against the west, and even their own Muslim peers, do not all wear al Qaeda badges. They are part and parcel of the same enemy, and cooperate across their vague organizational constantly. That you do not understand this is a prime example of why an NCO of your stature and limited oversight is ill-equipped to decide what is “winnable”, or even what should be a viable theatre of operations.

Thus far, I am unimpressed with your credentials as a potential Pentagon or military strategic post…. a status which you seem to bestow upon yourself already.

You are free to express yourself, Ms. AS. It is what you, your fellow soldiers in arms, and generations before you, fought to preserve. However if you do so while wearing the US military uniform, as your comrade Adam Kokesh did as some part of “street theatre” in his active protests, I hope you are stripped of any honors associated with your service. I consider that the height of disrespect for the military and the country.

August 10th, 2008 at 8:52 am
DW 5000
 23Reply to this comment  

You are free to express yourself, Ms. AS. It is what you, your fellow soldiers in arms, and generations before you, fought to preserve. However if you do so while wearing the US military uniform, as your comrade Adam Kokesh did as some part of “street theatre” in his active protests, I hope you are stripped of any honors associated with your service. I consider that the height of disrespect for the military and the country.

Wingnut Double Standards, chapter eleventy-million:

Any military personnel who agree with wingnut talking points are absolutely beyond reproach in any way whatever because they’re in the military; any military personnel who disagree with wingnut talking points are bad apples, liars, traitors and should be stripped of their honors.

August 10th, 2008 at 9:06 am
 24Reply to this comment  

For the record, I obey and carry out all legal orders. I do the task I am ordered to do. However, on my free time, I am involved in an organization which advocates for an end to the current conflict, and full and fair treatment of returning veterans. We need to have honor, and to keep our promises.

I do appreciate that you acknowledge the freedoms that soldiers fight for, the freedoms our country was founded upon. We are big enough for dissent.

I do not believe that Iraq is another theatre of Afghanistan. I might buy into the thought that Pakistan would be another theatre of Afghanistan. Yet we’re not there, and we /know/ Osama is.

I do not see why I should not be capable of making statements on what I believe about the war that is breaking our military, when civilians all over are free to make their own judgements. You’re right-I’m not high up in the military food-chain. But several generals have come out and said much the same that I have.
Would you argue they don’t know what they’re talking about?

August 10th, 2008 at 9:10 am
 25Reply to this comment  

A lot of people question how I can be a sergeant in the Army, giving my oath true weight and believing in its core values, while opposing the war in Iraq. But really, it’s easy. I believe in the Army’s purpose-it is to defend our country and protect the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

AS: I’ve been taken care of far better at IVAW events than I have at military ones.

Your own words have revealed your loyalty, and that is not to the country you swore an oath to defend and protect. Please resign your commission NOW.

The retired Generals you refer to have also recanted their statments as well (Batista). I would argue that an NCO with none or dated in country experience cannot be put on the same level as Petraeus. IVAW consistenly attempts to do mislead the public with this and continues to actively subvert the war on terror. The only ones attempting to break the military are organizations such as IVAW – have you befriended a recruiter yet, AS? How is your buddy Scott Camel? Any future plans to blow up Congress? Is your fellow IVAW member Evan Knappenberger penning any more fatwa’s agains Michelle Malkin, or building bombs directed at GOE members?

Based upon the evidence, I would strongly argue that you actively seek to subvert the military, NOT support it. Hiding behind your unworthy NCO status while assocating openly with individuals that avocate subversion and violence against our government is dispicable. You are a coward, and traitor.

August 10th, 2008 at 9:39 am
 26Reply to this comment  

Skye,

That you say that is simply another reminder of your own, non-veteran, status. Anyone who has actually been in the Army would not be surprised that I would say that the Army isn’t exactly the best at providing comfort. In fact, I doubt that it’s anywhere in the game plan for most. So when I say I’ve been taken care of better at IVAW events, it’s much the same as saying that I lived far better when I was in Air Force barracks than Army ones. It’s the simple truth, and doesn’t mean anything about where my loyalties lie.

Also, I am an NCO- Non commissioned officer. Thus, there’s no commission to resign. Please get more educated about military matters before presuming to instruct.

No one in the IVAW has ever planned to blow up anything, and Evan Knappenberger is not currently an IVAW member.

I have a lot of respect for veterans with different opinions than mine, but it really irks me when civilians who didn’t see fit to make the decision to serve metaphorically spit on those of us who chose to, while pretending to honor the troops. Really, you honor only the troops who agree with your political beliefs, which is pretty damn despicable.

August 10th, 2008 at 9:55 am
 27Reply to this comment  

Sergeant in keeping with your talking points that civilians should not be allowed to criticize military affairs is it also therefore safe to say soldiers should not criticize civilian matters? Since when does being a member of the military give you any sort special privilege to criticize?
The Hollywood crowd certainly takes it upon themselves to be experts on a whole host of subjects with which they have no direct experience.
We only have your word that you have not carried out any acts while serving that could have jeopardized other soldiers or impeded the mission, and quite frankly I do not believe you are able to take your anti war sentiments and leave them outside the door, so to speak when you are doing your job.
How do we know that a certain request for supplies didn’t get “lost” by you? How about some report needed by higher ups to get an idea of equipment readiness didn’t get altered?
There are hundreds of ways of disrupting the mission while not actually getting your hands dirty. How many soldiers have been wounded or killed because you had a momentary laspse of professionalism?
But then they are just dumb grunts right?

August 10th, 2008 at 10:12 am
 28Reply to this comment  

I well understand that *you* don’t think Iraq should be a theatre of operations, AS. My point is that you are neither authorized, nor equipped, to make that decision. This is only enhanced by your lack of knowledge of the world theatre when you suggest Pakistan perhaps *should* be a theatre of that war.

As I said, I’m glad you can only lend your voice to your opinions, and are not one with any weight.

And I do appreciate that you set your opinions aside, and follow orders.

In the meantime, the FA village idiot DW weighs in with the absurd notion that being stripped of honorable discharge is a “wingnut” idea, instead of military rule of law. This about one of AS’s buds, Adam Kokesh.

A US military panel has recommended a marine be involuntarily discharged after he was pictured at an anti-war protest dressed in desert fatigues. Marine Corporal Adam Kokesh was accused of misconduct. The military bans the unauthorised wearing of uniforms.

Marine Corporal Adam Kokesh was accused of misconduct. The military bans the unauthorised wearing of uniforms. But the 25-year-old insisted that as his name tag and military emblems were removed he had done nothing wrong.

The three-person board said Cpl Kokesh should lose the honourable discharge status he had already been granted.

Instead, the board recommended he should receive a general discharge under honourable conditions, one step below an honourable discharge

Cpl Kokesh, a member of Iraq Veterans Against the War, appeared at the Washington demonstration in March.

Investigators recommended he be discharged under “other-than-honourable” conditions, but the panel opted for a middle road, meaning he would keep all of his benefits.

Lending your voice to protests is one thing. When you lend your uniform to that protest, and misrepresent the US military by abuse of the uniform, is not only despicable, but against a law. Enforcing laws, apparently to the Seattle demented, is a “wingnut” idea.

You are, as usual, a worthless contribution to humanity, DW.

August 10th, 2008 at 10:17 am
 29Reply to this comment  

Careful there, JAG. I never said that civilians shouldn’t be allowed to comment, just that it irks me when they do.

What amazes me here is that, when one of my major reasons for opposing the war in Iraq is the wasteful lost of our troops and military readiness, you would assume that I would somehow do anything which would harm troops. Sometimes the lack of logic truly amazes me. What conceivable reason would I have to do that? A lot of my best friends are grunts. I would never do anything to hurt them.

Mata Harley:
The uniform thing is iffy when it comes to fully discharged servicemembers. I obviously am on active duty and can’t wave signs in uniform. However, it is more unclear for veterans.

DW’s point, however, is generally valid.

August 10th, 2008 at 10:30 am
 30Reply to this comment  

Okay in regards to Kokesh he should have been discharged when he was caught smuggling weapons back to this country from Iraq, or do we choose to ignore that part of his story? He was busted from Sgt to Cpl for that.
I saw the You Tube video with his little love fest with another one of his IVAW buds Millard. It seems Adam was anti war before he went, became in favor of it while there, and once again against it when he got home. His biggest beef seems to be that the front line Infantry units got stuff he felt should have gone to his unit, a Civil Affairs Unit.
Boo frikkin hoo! The trigger pullers got stuff he didn’t.
The tattoo on his arm, unlike his honor is forever.

August 10th, 2008 at 10:38 am
 31Reply to this comment  

I do not hide my non-veteran status, unlike you, who hides her IVAW connection whenever possible. A good example would be your first post on this thread.

I have a wealth of organizational experience, and as ‘non-veteran’ a more objective eye on this situation. No organization is perfect, there are whiners and malcontents everywhere. Bitching about your gripes does NOT make a war crime. IVAW has been pressing that since its inception, although what can one expect when the mentors of IVAW were the original malcontents from Vietnam’s Winter Soldier.

I have ever right to question the loyalty and motives of soldiers who are closely aligned with organizations that support subversive actions against the United States. How many IED’s were purchased by terrorists in Fallujah after being infused with cash and supplies by the Code Pink and Global Exchange. How many soldiers were maimed and killed by these weapons? IVAW works closely with both of these organizations. THIS IS DESPICABLE. Care to comment on al-jazeera media coverage of your WS2?

Resign, quit – I don’t care – get the frak out of the Army. You have clearly expressed where your loyalties lie -go join them.

I will not honor a liar or a traitor in uniform or not. Thankfully, most in uniform are honorable and deserve and get my respect.

August 10th, 2008 at 10:57 am
Raoul
 32Reply to this comment  

A/S,

As good as IVAW catering may be, in no way does it compare to combat support.

Yeah, IVAW managed to forage for beer in Villinova during the Boy Scout Hike to Valley Forge.

Did Joe Bangert bring everyone some Ho Chi Minh beer?

August 10th, 2008 at 11:08 am
 33Reply to this comment  

Skye:

As I see it, the problem you and yours tend to have with me is that I /don’t/ hide my IVAW affiliation. I’m sorry I didn’t state it explicitly enough for you, but I in no way tried to distance myself. Do you state in every post “I am not a veteran”?

I have no idea what Code Pink does: however, if you have evidence that they directly funded insurgents, why not send that on to the proper authorities, instead of complaining about it to me? Tell the FBI, or someone who can prosecute that. I certainly don’t have the time or resources to investigate that, nor the ability to charge anyone in court for it.

As for Al-Jazeera? It’s like the Fox News of the Arab world. Are you suggesting we should have turned away news organizations simply because of their political slant? We didn’t turn away Jason Mattera, even though he blatantly lied about his affiliations in order to gain access, broke every rule, and harassed people in the parking lot and on their way to their rooms.

August 10th, 2008 at 11:14 am
 34Reply to this comment  

How do we know that a certain request for supplies didn’t get “lost” by you? How about some report needed by higher ups to get an idea of equipment readiness didn’t get altered?
There are hundreds of ways of disrupting the mission while not actually getting your hands dirty. How many soldiers have been wounded or killed because you had a momentary lapse of professionalism?

Speaking as a non-veteran and non-traitor, this is the crux of the matter. Where does the loyalty lie? Even Benedict Arnold made a decision to chose sides. Instead of hanging with the colonials and showing his ’support’ by misrepresenting his information in order to weaken what he though was a ‘fools mission’; Benedict broke with the colonials and joined the British. That takes balls, and a huge amount of courage. History has revealed he chose the wrong side, but I have to respect the backbone it took to take that stand. I wish AS would do the same.

August 10th, 2008 at 11:14 am
 35Reply to this comment  

Wish in one hand, Skye, shit in the other. See which one fills up faster.

I’m not going to leave the Army just because you want it. Also, aren’t you encouraging a soldier to desert in a time of war, by encouraging me to leave the Army, when I still have years left on my current contract?

August 10th, 2008 at 11:17 am
Raoul
 36Reply to this comment  

A/S,

Stop with the bullshit that Kokesh removed all insignia from the uniform. MARPAT has a big one in the fabric over the left breast.

Plus it’s not you didn’t reveal your IVAW “affiliation”, it’s that IVAW is a subversive organization that works with groups such as Code Pink, RCP and PSL that commit treason.

“Affiliation” is that another way of dodging responsibility? “Yeah, IVAW is committing subversion by helping that deserter stay at the IVAW Tree Fort, but I’m only affiliated with them.”

August 10th, 2008 at 11:55 am
 37Reply to this comment  

My veteran status is irrelevant, I only uncover fools who use their military status as a shield to deflect questions of their subversive behavior.

Although, I can see why you wouldn’t want to go around introducing yourself a member of IVAW who likes subversive behavior. Fair enough.

You have no idea of Code Pink? It seems you two groups play together often:

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=1646

http://codepinkdc.blogspot.com/2008/01/arizona-codepink-presents-fundraiser.html

CODEPINK travel fund to enable people make a trip to lobby for Peace in DC.We reached our goal of $500 per group……the donations are still coming in until jan 9th.Adam Kokesh & Shalom members of Iraq Vets Against the WAR joined the group for a late night conference call to discuss the focus of IVAW and how we can support the group

From the Desk of Elvis:
http://ivaw.org/membersspeak/ivaw-dc-house

We are also actively involved in supporting other anti-war groups that represent a broader demographic than just the veterans, such as Military Families Speak Out, Code Pink (Women for Peace), Voters For Peace, ANSWER (Act Now, Stop War, End Racism), and UFPJ (United For Peace and Justice). When we attend events hosted by these groups, they appreciate the credibility we lend them as veterans of the war in Iraq.

Support Our Friends The IVAW – a fabulous photo set on Flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/codepinkalert/sets/72157606523836201/

It seems EVERYONE else involved in IVAW knows exactly who Code Pink is, except you AS.

As a self proclaimed knowledgeable NCO, it is curious that you are quick to proclaim your opinion that the US is prosecuting the war on terror badly and the military is breaking down , yet have no knowledge of Code Pink.

Not that I am saying your are distancing yourself from the IVAW connection to Code Pink by professing no knowlege of the group.

Oh, have you or any representative of IVAW reported to the proper authorities the ‘war crimes’ uncovered by IVAW?

August 10th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
 38Reply to this comment  

I’m not going to leave the Army just because you want it. Also, aren’t you encouraging a soldier to desert in a time of war, by encouraging me to leave the Army, when I still have years left on my current contract.

I keep forgetting I’m dealing with Sgt. Schultz – I see NOTHING….NOTHING!

OTH discharge would work, AS.

As for deserting soldiers, you certainly have joined the right organization for this:

Mathis Chiroux

Elvis Speaks

Let me guess, you have no idea about this situation, right?

Christ, I know more about your organization that you, as an active member of IVAW. What were you saying about shit in your hand??

August 10th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
 39Reply to this comment  

And why in the world should I settle for an OTH when my service and my oath have been entirely honorable?

I know that Code Pink has helped IVAW in some areas-I was saying that I know nothing of them funding insurgents, and you have yet to show me any proof of it, or explain why if you know these things, you haven’t reported them to your local FBI office.

August 10th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
 40Reply to this comment  

I have no idea what Code Pink does:

I know NOTHING….NOTHING…

I know that Code Pink has helped IVAW in some areas

Which is it? Was your first statement the lie or the second?

Hanging with VVAW, and IVAW makes your service less than honorable.

Who said CP’s ‘donation’ is not being investigated? The transfer of funds and aid in Fallujah was not transparent. CP refuses to identify the recipients of their current aid drive in Ninevah. You have missed the important point of my bringing up this incident is to highlight the character of your associates in IVAW.

Next time a soldier dies, how about sending funds or aid to those that orchestrated his death instead of sending it to the bereaved family.

That might sound cold, however that is the modus operandi of the left. Every one should read Jay Michael Waller’s novel “Third Current of Revolution”

August 10th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Wordsmith
 41Reply to this comment  

For the record, I obey and carry out all legal orders. I do the task I am ordered to do. However, on my free time, I am involved in an organization which advocates for an end to the current conflict,

Based upon your essay interpretation of “The Core Army Values”, how do you reconcile “carrying out orders” professionally when you wear the uniform, and subverting those “legal orders” when you are not on duty? Going by your essay’s rationale, should you not be disobeying direct orders to participate in the prosecution of a “purposeless” “foreign” war which “we can’t win”? Would that not be fulfilling duty and honor, as you see it, and displaying “loyalty to the Constitution, which is “under attack by men who have not sacrificed to protect it”?

Please help me to better understand.

If every soldier followed the interpretation you’ve given to the Core Army Values, with personal beliefs in direct conflict with civilian policy-makers (do you think the military shouldn’t be under the control of civilians?), how would the military still function? You say you believe in our excursion into Afghanistan. What of soldiers who apply your same standard of opinion-making to Iraq as a “purposeless war”, and give it to Afghanistan? Should soldiers get to micromanage Washington’s decisions?

Has it occurred to you, that you could be wrong about Iraq? Been misled about the “Bush lied” meme?

A lot of people question how I can be a sergeant in the Army, giving my oath true weight and believing in its core values, while opposing the war in Iraq. But really, it’s easy. I believe in the Army’s purpose-it is to defend our country and protect the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I don’t think its purpose is to fight foreign wars we can’t win. Its true purpose is noble, and has been subverted by armchair soldiers, politicians who have never had to serve. They don’t know and live these values,

As MH points out, isn’t it beyond your paygrade to make policy-making decisions? If every soldier made a decision in their heart of hearts that a war is unwinnable, then chances are, they’d find a way to make that belief come true. I suppose we still can’t win in Iraq, because YOU say so?

As for the last part, does that mean you will be voting for John McCain in November, because he served and Barack Obama hasn’t? Is that your criteria for PotUS? And btw, did President Bush not serve? Donald Rumsfeld?

I am loyal to my fellow soldiers: I do not want them to die in a purposeless war. I am loyal to the Army: I do not want it to be weakened on multiple fronts and taken away from its true purpose, defense of the Nation. I am loyal to the Constitution, which is under attack by men who have not sacrificed to protect it. I bear true faith and allegiance to these, specifically to the Constitution which founded our nation. Supporting my country, my Constitution, and my Army by criticizing current foreign policy – even though my commander might disagree with me – requires courage and loyalty.

Everyone is entitled to their personal opinions. But given that your opinion could be the wrong one, how do you responsibly act upon them? Did it ever occur to you that those above your paygrade might just “know better”?

It requires us to take full responsibility for our actions and those of our subordinates – things that the current leadership is not doing. Sometimes we will be asked to put the nation’s welfare ahead of personal safety. That is a high and noble purpose that should be followed when the welfare of the nation is at stake. But the Iraq war does not serve the nation’s welfare. It hurts America economically
and politically, and contributes to the breakdown of the military that I love.

Again, in YOUR OPINION.

If you truly believe that we are engaged in an immoral, purposeless and harmful war to America, as a soldier based upon how you read the Army Core Values, should you not, while in uniform, actively dissent from carrying out orders that furthers the prosecution of an immoral and unjust war? What you are doing sounds like this: a superior orders you to shoot and kill an unarmed captive; you carry out your “legal orders”, then protest about it while off-duty, and out of uniform. If you truly believe in the justness of your beliefs, why aren’t you doing more to end this immoral war?

I know that Code Pink has helped IVAW in some areas-I was saying that I know nothing of them funding insurgents, and you have yet to show me any proof of it, or explain why if you know these things, you haven’t reported them to your local FBI office.

Would you say that Jane Fonda, without actually funding the Viet Cong, helped to give aid and comfort to the enemy? Or was she merely expressing her patriotic right to dissent, honorably? Did she or did she not subvert America’s war efforts?

By Gene Kuentzler:

The question raised by Gary Beaver, “Do you have any data on actual U.S. troops, by name who were killed as a direct result of Fonda’s actions?” can be answered by reading the book written by General Giap, Commander of NVA forces. Giap clearly indicated that NVA troops were without sufficient supplies, and had been continually defeated time and again.

By 1968, NVA morale was at it’s lowest point ever. The plans for “Tet” ‘68 was their last desperate attempt to achieve a success, in an effort to boost the NVA morale. When it was over, General Giap and the NVA viewed the Tet ‘68 offensive as a failure, they were on their knees and had prepared to negotiate a surrender.

At that time, there were fewer than 10,000 U.S. casualties, the Vietnam War was about to end, as the NVA was prepared to accept their defeat. Then, they heard Walter Cronkite (former CBS News anchor and correspondent) on TV proclaiming the success of the Tet ‘68 offensive by the communist NVA. They were completely and totally amazed at hearing that the US Embassy had been overrun. In reality, The NVA had not gained access to the Embassy–there were some VC who had been killed on the grassy lawn, but they hadn’t gained access. Further reports indicated the riots and protesting on the streets of America.

According to Giap, these distorted reports were inspirational to the NVA. They changed their plans from a negotiated surrender and decided instead, they only needed to persevere for one more hour, day, week, month, eventually the protesters in American would help them to achieve a victory they knew they could not win on the battlefield. Remember, this decision was made at a time when the U.S. casualties were fewer than 10,000, at the end of 1967, beginning of 1968.

So when you write:

What amazes me here is that, when one of my major reasons for opposing the war in Iraq is the wasteful lost of our troops and military readiness, you would assume that I would somehow do anything which would harm troops. Sometimes the lack of logic truly amazes me. What conceivable reason would I have to do that? A lot of my best friends are grunts. I would never do anything to hurt them.

Can you not put two and two together, regarding the charge that you might somehow be “harming the troops”, even if that is not your intent?

August 10th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
 42Reply to this comment  

BOOM!

August 10th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
 43Reply to this comment  

Skye: Are you and Wordsmith feeding the moonbats again?

August 10th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Wordsmith
 44Reply to this comment  

I have a lot of respect for veterans with different opinions than mine, but it really irks me when civilians who didn’t see fit to make the decision to serve metaphorically spit on those of us who chose to, while pretending to honor the troops. Really, you honor only the troops who agree with your political beliefs, which is pretty damn despicable.

So in other words, you condemn Code Pink, The World Can’t Wait, ANSWER, and all the other anti-peace/anti-war movement organizations who cherry-pick patriots such as yourself from the orchard, do you? And who will only listen to IVAW, while ignoring the dissenting opinions of patriots like CJ, who has this to say about how he feels “supported” by those you are aligned with:

before I left I wanted to impart one more piece of wisdom. I motioned towards his encampment and asked him which of the tents before us were collecting letters, cards or care packages for troops. I asked which tent was asking for donation of shoes, clothing, toys, school supplies or other good that Soldiers can hand out to the Iraqi people to make their lives better. I told him I don’t have a problem with the peace movement and anti-war movement. But, I DO have a problem with a peace movement and anti-war movement that purports to do it in the name of supporting the troops and yet nothing there makes me feel supported. I told him the reason why his cause will never gain acceptance from Soldiers is because they go about it all wrong. I may feel more inclined to listen to their speeches and read their literature if I actually something there that REALLY supported the troops. I asked him when the last time they went to Walter Reed and brought cookies, movies, music, flowers, letter, cards, drawings, anything to make those Soldiers they supposedly support feel better. NEVER. And that, my tin foil hat wearing friend, is why I don’t support you and made an effort to thank that ONE lady standing alone on the side of the road instead of any of the many people mulling about without deodorant. I also thanked him for the civil conversation (up to the point of “chemtrails”) and that it’s a rare day that I have a conversation with people like him and don’t get called names or have to deal with screaming and yelling. We shook hands and departed.

The IVAW is merely used by Code Pink as a political pawn. Every statement they make, every military-related story they choose to highlight, is negative toward the military. Yes, they support you by feeling sorry for you; by protesting against military recruitment offices. They’d love nothing better than to see you out of a job, as much as you profess to love serving in the Army.





August 10th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
 45Reply to this comment  

The uniform thing is iffy when it comes to fully discharged servicemembers. I obviously am on active duty and can’t wave signs in uniform. However, it is more unclear for veterans.

“Iffy”? “Unclear”? Respect for the uniform is “iffy” and “unclear”??? Nice, AS. Active, inactive and/or retired… that respect should remain at all times.

DW “generally correct”? ROTFLMAO… By gawd, you’re reading deficient. Let’s read it again, shall we?

Wingnut Double Standards, chapter eleventy-million:

Any military personnel who agree with wingnut talking points are absolutely beyond reproach in any way whatever because they’re in the military; any military personnel who disagree with wingnut talking points are bad apples, liars, traitors and should be stripped of their honors.

True to DW, he never contributes anything but unsubstantiate vitriolic opines. Military personnel who “agree” with the “wingnut” talking points… meaning those who support the military strategy in both theatres… *are* above reproach. They are not challenging their superiors judgment, and they support and obey orders.

However no where did I suggest that military personnel, such as IVAW, be stripped of their honors for their protests. I suggested they be stripped of their honor if they disrespected and abused the uniform for their protests. An entirely different animal.

But then, I can see where you and DimWit would be birds of a feather, and consider him “generally right”. Afterall, you consider respect of that uniform “unclear” and “iffy”.

Feh… always on DW, but on you as well. Not only for missing the obvious exaggeration of what our cyber village idiot actually said – but for dancing in the grey area on respect for that uniform at any damn time.

August 10th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Raoul
 46Reply to this comment  

Wordsmith,

IVAW and VFP only go to WRAMC to either protest or market. To go there and do something where there’s nothing in it for them is asking too much.

August 10th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
Raoul
 47Reply to this comment  

A/S,

Here John Grant VVAW Mentor to IVAW bragging about how they manhandled Gerry Kiley, “One unlucky guy tried to disrupt a panel, but once he opened his mouth he was rudely clotheslined and hauled out by a very large man in a red Security shirt.”

The Red Shirts were also VVAW.

Kiley didn’t do anything more than Code Pink does, yet revels in the violence.

August 10th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
DW 5000
 48Reply to this comment  

If military personnel agree with wingnut talking points, everything is totally hunky-dory–no matter what they might have done in the line of duty.

If, however, a former soldier goes off the reservation by disagreeing with the accepted Iraq narrative, the Right-wing attack is, “But he’s retired. He’s out of the loop and doesn’t know anything.”

If he’s still serving, it’s, “But hasn’t been over to Iraq.”

If he has been–or currently is–in Iraq, the attack changes to, “B-b-but he’s probably in the motor pool, or something. What does he know?”

If he’s a frontline soldier, it’s, “He’s a dirty LIEberal, and he’s denigrating the troops. He’s a traitor!”

You guys are always moving the goalposts.

August 10th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
 49Reply to this comment  

Dim Wit: Whether or not a soldier has been to Iraq he has a right to his opinion. Sadly, it is YOUR SIDE who constantly denigrates the majority opinion of soldiers who have and are serving. Especially so when they remind us that the overwhelming majority of them wants to finish this job and not cut and run as so many of you defeatists would have us do.

I wish you had as much respect for that prevailing view among the military serving in Iraq as you apparently do for the lone dissenting voices.

August 10th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
DW 5000
 50Reply to this comment  

Dim Wit: Whether or not a soldier has been to Iraq he has a right to his opinion. Sadly, it is YOUR SIDE who constantly denigrates the majority opinion of soldiers who have and are serving. Especially so when they remind us that the overwhelming majority of them wants to finish this job and not cut and run as so many of you defeatists would have us do.

I wish you had as much respect for that prevailing view among the military serving in Iraq as you apparently do for the lone dissenting voices.

Ah. You’re saying that someone can have an opinion unless said opinion is in the minority (or runs contrary to yours), in which case it then gets downgraded to mere “denigration.” Nice.

For future reference, “disagreement,” which is what you’re talking about, is not “denigration.” It’s disagreement.

August 10th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
Curt
 51Reply to this comment  

Being away in Palm Springs vacationing a bit I missed this thread of comments but have to weigh in a bit, being a Veteran and all. Although Mata, Word, and Skye have pretty much said all there is to say. Any active duty member working with that subversive group, a group that aligns itself with an even more reprehensible group Code Pink, is beyond reprehensible and I agree with Skye, should be drummed out of the service. In no way shape or form did I ever believe I knew the big picture of the duties we carried out. I had my opinions, and god knows all of us in the military love to bitch, but I believed in the Marines, I believed in my country, and when those Generals and that President sends us on a mission I trusted in their knowledge of the situation.

That essay of those core principals AS wrote speaks volumes about her character and principals. I shudder to think the damage she has done to his fellow soldiers based upon it. As Word wrote:

Based upon your essay interpretation of “The Core Army Values”, how do you reconcile “carrying out orders” professionally when you wear the uniform, and subverting those “legal orders” when you are not on duty? Going by your essay’s rationale, should you not be disobeying direct orders to participate in the prosecution of a “purposeless” “foreign” war which “we can’t win”? Would that not be fulfilling duty and honor, as you see it, and displaying “loyalty to the Constitution, which is “under attack by men who have not sacrificed to protect it”?

The whole rationale of that essay tells me that either she is doing everything possible to subvert the war effort, or she is a blowhard who talks tough, but when it comes down to it he is just one more soldier bitching and moaning.

August 10th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Raoul
 52Reply to this comment  

Hey Army Sergeant Schultz,

Here’s another IVAW/Code Pink connection you seemed to miss.

“PROGRESSIVE PUB CRAWL – IVAW and Code PInk – Please forward widely!
Friends: Attached is a flier for the “Progressive Pub Crawl” – IVAW and Code Pink fundraisers, in Adams Morgan – both on Saturday, Aug 2!! Hope you can join us. IVAW will kick offf its Open Mic fundraiser at 5 p.m., with music by Perry King and Friends, karaoke, and special guests. At Chief Ike’s Mambo Room, 1725 Columbia Rd., NW, 5-8:30 p.m., suggested donation $5 – 20 (no one turned away for lack of funds). IVAW will use proceeds to pay costs of its trip to the Democratic & Republican conventions.”

You guys claim you want to recreate the anti-war coffee house, but mostoften events spend a lot of time in beer halls.

August 11th, 2008 at 5:08 am
Scott Malensek
 53Reply to this comment  

Yawn. The debate over whether or not to invade Iraq is in it’s SEVENTH YEAR. Here’s a newsflash: Iraq was invaded, great people fought and died there, they are bringing peace to the nation, and they are being brought home with honor. UN, US, Iraq, Bush, Obama, McCain, and the DNC are all on the same page about the path forward:

“We can safely remove our combat brigades at the pace of one to two per month and expect to complete redeployment within 16 months. After this redeployment, we will keep a residual force in Iraq to perform specific missions: targeting terrorists; protecting our embassy and civil personnel; and advising and supporting Iraq’s Security Forces, provided the Iraqis make political progress. ”
“… At the same time, we will provide generous assistance to Iraqi refugees and internally displaced persons. We will launch a comprehensive regional and international diplomatic surge to help broker a lasting political settlement in Iraq, which is the only path to a sustainable peace. We will make clear that we seek no permanent bases in Iraq. This is the future the American people”

THE DEBATE IS OVER-opponents of the war (violent terrorist insurgents and peaceful political pawns of the left) have lost.

August 11th, 2008 at 5:40 am
ChrisG
 54Reply to this comment  

I AM an active duty Army Officer A.S. and I SUPPORT our efforts fully. Code Pink is a subversive organization which brags of sending $600k worth of supplies and cash to “insurgents” in Fallujah who were fighting Marines there. They HAVE been reported to the FBI many times. I suggest you do a little investigation on you “allies”.

Code Pink waves signs saying “we support our troops when they shoot their officers” and other such idiocy. They and their associates are beneath contempt.

I have no time or desire to expend any more energy on your idiocy concerning this matter. This is all I will say: IVAW is a subversive, in my opinion treasonous, organization based on the very treasonous VVAW organization which fostered it. It is allied with other subersive organizations which are doing their best to make ANY effort to defend the USA “unwinnable”. You are running with a very bad crowd at IVAW. If this is how you decide to lead you life, then please get out of the military before IAVW does something which dishonors your position and rank any more.

August 11th, 2008 at 10:43 am
Shane
 55Reply to this comment  

Army Sergent;

Why are you qualified to give political policy? Christ people like you annoyed me will I was in. I was a sailor and we called your type sea lawyers. Why do you think you hold some special information that the rest of the Military doesn’t have? What possible policy information could you have that the president doesn’t have? That you profess to having certain insights doesn’t make you right but you can’t see that. Typical liberal. You probably don’t understand why we just can’t see your incedible intellect. There are scores of pages of reports that say Bush picked wisely given the state of intelligence at the time of the Iraq invasion. That the intelligence turned out to be wrong is beside the point at this point. We are there whether the intelligence was right or wrong. Get out at your EAOS. Leave the army. It isn’t for people who just want a retirement, its for defending our country.

November 17th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Raoul
 56Reply to this comment  

Hey Army Sergeant,

You lie.

In particular, ” In addition, IVAW is not against Afghanistan, but only the Iraq occupation.”

That’s bull and you know it.

Winter Soldier 2.0 is about Iraq AND Afghanistan.

Your Veterans For Peace puppet masters (i’e, the VVAW cock roaches) have their campaign against Afghanistan too. Based on the silly assertion that al-Qaeda wasn’t “indigenous” to Afghanistan.

Yeah, but the Taliban that gave them sanctuary and allowed them to operate freely within the Afghan borders was “indigenous”.

I don’t know what’s worse, your lying or the poor quality of your lies.

November 18th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Scott Malensek
 57Reply to this comment  

Osama Bin Laden had his daughter marry Mullah Omar’s. He funded the Taliban bigtime, and his Arab Afghan brigades helped them keep power. Ohhhh, but the talking point is that Al Queda isn’t indigenous to Afghanistan. Seems to me they’re involved enough.

November 18th, 2008 at 12:26 pm

Leave a reply

Name (*)
Mail (will not be published) (*)
URI
Comment

If your comments get caught in spam a lot please log into your registered account before trying to comment again. You can email me if your comment is caught in spam

 

Identity Verification: If you wish to verify your commenter identity, so no one can steal it, click the below button: