http://www.ustream.tv/channel/frontline-club

Thought you might be interested in watching/embedding/joining in the chat. Hope so

And if he had read mine, he would see I refuted his, …if he were capable of understanding what I wrote, that is, which I fear he’s not (or he’s deliberately feigning ignorance to keep dragging this out so he can keep unloading his quano here.)

“we committed an act of terrorism “ — D.G.

Yep, when a malicious moron calls it terrorism, it must be so. And, yeah, better we should have had lots more allies die, and maybe even risk losing the war, than hurt or psychologically disturb anyone. He is such a total waste of time, and he knows it, too.
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JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF HIS DELIBERATE MISLIEADING (and utter ignorance)

Dave Gnoebles says “Surgical attacks on Hiroshima’s industrial areas and military installations, as well as Nagasaki’s shipbuilding and marine repair facilities would have achieved the directly[sic] military objective“.

The closest thing to a “surgical strike” back then would have required many planes at low enough altitudes to make it a suicide mission, something that would make Gnoebles quite happy – to see Americans die.

But, the “MILITARY OBJECTIVE” in dropping the atom bomb was not only to attack military targets. It was primarily TO BRING A SWIFT END TO THE WAR, and IT SUCCEEDED AND SAVED HUDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF LIVES ON BOTH SIDES. But, even if it saved no lives on the other side, it was worth it if it saved American lives, which IT DID!

Propagandists like DN want us to feel so guilty about killing an enemy that we opt instead to lose hundreds of thousands of our own people, rather than harm the enemy. Only a perverse conscienceless ghoul would advocate such a horrible thing. It is the Dave Gnoebles of the world who are the real terrorists, as we see from the evil they advocate.

If Double Standard Dave (carpet guano) Gnoebles wants to know what “terror” is, he should ask the American POW’s how “humane” the Japanese Army was, or maybe he should listen to the Asian women who “knew” the Japanese soldier first hand, as he raped his way across Asia.

EVERYTHING THEY “KNOW” IS WRONG!

“Funny, Dave, I don’t seem to see your references on that detail, or any other for that matter. As you said to Scott recently, …. ‘Substantiate that please.’”

If you’d stop desperately trying to be cute and actually read the other person’s post, you’d see that I discussed the mission differentiation between us and the Brits at Dresden #25.

I only brought out the distinction in mission between the Brits and the Americans at Dresden because I wanted to give the Americans the benefit of the doubt. If you want to quibble with that, fine. You make my point for me – we committed an act of terrorism jointly with the British at Dresden and unilaterally at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The only argument you have is that it was justified terrorism. and we feel bad about it.

I am not even remotely suggesting a moral equivalence between the US and AQ. But what I do want to do is force the application of the definition of terrorism across the board based on historical facts.

The behavior of the Japanese does not justify our behavior. It’s not about being “nice,” it’s about being moral.

The argument for ending the war ASAP is easily supported by the continuing and profound violations of human rights committed by the Japanese during the war. Their army was comparable to Saddam’s in cruelty. Being “nice” to them would be like being nice to a pack of ravenous wolves.

Just as the suffering of Iraqis was brought on by Saddam and his henchmen, so the suffering of the Japanese was the product of the ruling military class. Like the Islamofascists, they also cynically used their people as human shields. Any compromise to the Japanese rulers would have only extended the suffering of the ordinary citizen. Only someone bereft of any morality could blame America for the course it took to expiditiously end the war.

This link does a good job of painting the larger picture in which the sufferings of so many Japanese is largly taken by America’s detractors to be the only element. It was not, nor was it the most significant.

We know the looney Left doesn’t value life. If it did, then “Che” would NOT be one of their heroes, and live-birth abortion would NOT be a cause they support. The only reason they beat us up with the horror of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is that they know that we have a conscience and are bothered by the fact that it was the only way. Yet, while they try to use our conscience against us, they really couldn’t care less.

I frankly don’t think even you know what your point was in that last post.

“Innocent people have already been released.” — WD-40

WHATEVER SHALL WE DO???!!!

What’s the likelyhood that any GITMO detainee doesn’t belong there?

We’re not talking about abstract notions like the statistical likelihood of this occurring; we’re talking about the lives of individual human beings who may–and I stress may–be innocent of wrongdoing.

It has already happened. Innocent people have already been released.

You Righties are absolutely correct: this is a different kind of war. These guys aren’t in uniform. In the past, it was easy to tell whether someone was an enemy soldier because he wore the clothes. Now it will take some extra effort to differentiate the enemy from the hapless shmoe.

You can keep the bad guys and let the other ones free, but at least make an attempt to sort the two groups out.

But some here – with whom I will waste no more time with their asinine and unworthy game playing – have their head so far up their butt, they can’t fathom the difference between those who are free to go, (and thereby not detained)but remaining by choice because of the alternatives, and those that are detained and awaiting trial or tribunal.

Ironically, MH, that was my point to begin with–or didn’t you bother reading the posts before telling me that I was stupid and didn’t know what I was talking about? Chuck wrote, in essence, “Kill ‘em all because they’re all animals,” and my response was along the lines of, “Hold on–some of these guys may not be the animals you’re talking about.”

It was then that you jumped in with your “duh” and your “changing conditions on the ground.”

Then, after reams of namecalling and contempt, you’re saying, “Like I told you, man–some of them are free to go!”

If I’m remembering correctly, and I know I am, that was my point, which you told me was no longer true.

Or something.

Your circular reasoning and flipflops–while somehow keeping up a steady stream of bile and abuse and maintaining that I’m the one who is misunderstanding–are truly masterful.

Head up one’s butt? Not being able to differentiate between dangerous and non-dangerous detainees? Chuck, she’s talking to you, buddy:

The prisoners in Gitmo are like Pit Bulls that have been trained to fight. No amount of humane treatment is going to change their behavior. For all intents and purposes they have been lost to the human race.

I wouldn’t mind if all of them were simply hauled out and disposed of.

Sorry, but I edited my post before yours was posted, so it shouldn’t look like you were responding to something that you should have known was there. Also, yes I know there have been some who have refused to leave, but my refs for that are on my other computer, so I’m glad you dealt with that.

And, thanks for that PDF on Saddam. I didn’t have it yet.

Have a great weekend.

1: their countries of origin do not want them back
2: some do not want to return to their country of origin for fear of torture and imprisonment

The US is trying to make alternative arrangements for these. About a year ago, that number was about 80 out of 370 some odd, if memory serves correctly.

But some here – with whom I will waste no more time with their asinine and unworthy game playing – have their head so far up their butt, they can’t fathom the difference between those who are free to go, (and thereby not detained)but remaining by choice because of the alternatives, and those that are detained and awaiting trial or tribunal. Since the DNC is hot to trot to close Gitmo, and time will run short, many may have to take their chances on torture in their homeland anyway.

Sort of gives a whole new meaning to Limbaugh’s “Club Gitmo”, eh?

As to the degree of their associations, accusations specifics and how dangerous they are to be set free… dunno. But if they only give Hamdan this short of a sentence, and he was found with a missile in his car trunk, those they are releasing have most likely served whatever time they’d get.

We don’t have enough to do but pick up some foreigner, schlepp him all the way over here and then spend tens of thousands of dollars on keeping him here? …and have nothing to show for it but his presence?

We’d be stupider than the Lefties who think we do.

The Geneva Convention (and the US Constitution) allow enemy combatants to be kept for the duration of any war. Since Islam has been at this for over 1300 years, their expected confinement, if properly executed, should be a long one.

Are there problems with GITMO? Yes, but not for the reasons the Lefties want us to believe, for example…

While Tabarak was released despite signs that the military considered him an important prisoner, there are others who have been cleared to leave but still remain in detention. (Some countries, such as Yemen — where nearly a hundred of the remaining detainees are from — refuse to agree to U.S. conditions for repatriated detainees. Others, such as China, want their prisoners back, but the U.S. says it will not repatriate prisoners who are in danger of being tortured.)

The point is that if we tried to “solve” the problems using Lefty “solutions” we would be wrong virtually all the time, because…

EVERYTHING THEY KNOW IS WRONG!

“Relative to that, an attack on the military facilities (note the division of mission between the British and American raids at Dresden) would be a surgical strike.” — Dave Noble

Funny, Dave, I don’t seem to see your references on that detail, or any other for that matter. As you said to Scott recently, …. “Substantiate that please.”

I found this on a quick google (not always the most reliable, so if you find any real (and I mean “real”) problems with it, I might do more work on it)…

Sir Norman Bottomley, the Deputy Chief of the Air Staff requested Arthur “Bomber” Harris of RAF Bomber Command and an ardent supporter of carpet bombing, to undertake attacks on Berlin, Dresden, Leipzig, Chemnitz as soon as moon and weather conditions allowed.”

OH, yeah, we should have been more like the Brits.

The decisions were made at the Allied Command level, i.e., ALL the allies were involved. Stop trying to blame one and exhonerate the other. (”Splitting” is a tactic used by manipulaters, people who often have moderate to severe mental pathology, ….Dave.)

Those who can’t go back to their countries of origin *are* free to go. They are not being detained, nor will face a tribunal nor trial. That they have no where to go is not our fault.

Red herring. Not the issue. The issue is whether or not there are some people detained at Guantanamo who are innocent of wrongdoing against the United States.

Gee.. if they’re just innocents, in the wrong place at the wrong time, I wonder why don’t their countries of origin want them back?

Gee..if they aren’t innocent, I wonder why our government doesn’t make them face a tribunal or trial? They already have them in custody.

Duh.

I am aware of the current meaning of that term. At one point in my career, I was responsible for maintaining the kits that turned iron bombs into precision munitions. I simply meant a strike that was directed at the military facilities in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Even during WWII there was a strike capability short of total obliteration of the city. Relative to that, an attack on the military facilities (note the division of mission between the British and American raids at Dresden) would be a surgical strike.

Now if you’re done with your giggling fit, you might try actually responding to my post.