opponents of the war say that the Bush Admin deliberately misled people into thinking the invasion would be fast, pay for itself, and almost bloodless. That’s been investigated, and no bi-partisan investigation has found that any misleading was done intentionally. BUT opponents of the war who have time and again demanded investigations of the Bush Admin have never been investigated themselves despite they’re deliberate exaggeration of the war’s duration, it’s dollar cost, and its cost in blood. They tell us we’ll be in Iraq forever so as to colonize it for oil, yet, the Bush Admin has been withdrawing forces since last September. They tell us that 2-3million Iraqis have died, but the number is barely 100,000 over 5yrs, with most of those casualties coming not from Americans, but from Al Queda suicide bombers, insurgents, criminals, and fmr regime loyalists. They tell us the war has cost 2-3 trillion dollars, and never fail to add the cost of the war in Afghanistan AND the war on terror into the cost of the Iraq War (DNC ads recently admitted it’s been about $500bn over 5yrs/$100bn yr). We’re told that the Bush Admin exaggereated claims of WMD (which were almost identical or less than the UN’s claims as late as 3/6/03), and that there were no ties at all to Al Queda. Both of those accusations have been found false: the ISG found there was a WMD threat-just not in the form of stockpiles, and the latest IPP report shows (as did the 1998 UBL indictment) that Iraq and Al Queda formed an alliance and cooperated on several occasions starting in 1993.

SO, why believe the proven lies from the left rather than the proven truths? Again…
Why do you ignore the pictures? What kind of evidence are you looking for?
-captured documents
-captured audio tapes
-detainees
-opinions from Democrats who saw the same or more intelligence?

What are you looking for?
What’s it gonna take to get opponents of the war to open their mind to the idea that they’ve been more misled from the DNC than from the Bush Admin?

Three years ago, the ruler of Iraq was a sworn enemy of America, who provided safe haven for terrorists, used weapons of mass destruction, and turned his nation into a prison. Saddam Hussein was not just a dictator; he was a proven mass murderer who refused to account for weapons of mass murder. Every responsible nation recognized this threat, and knew it could not go on forever.

America must remember the lessons of September the 11th. We must confront serious dangers before they fully materialize. And so my administration looked at the intelligence on Iraq, and we saw a threat. Members of the United States Congress from both political parties looked at the same intelligence, and they saw a threat. The United Nations Security Council looked at the intelligence, and it saw a threat. The previous administration and the Congress looked at the intelligence and made regime change in Iraq the policy of our country.

In 2002, the United Nations Security Council yet again demanded a full accounting of Saddam Hussein’s weapons programs. As he had for over a decade, Saddam Hussein refused to comply. In fact, according to former weapons inspector David Kay, Iraq’s weapons programs were elaborately shielded by security and deception operations that continued even beyond the end of Operation Iraqi Freedom. So I had a choice to make: Either take the word of a madman, or defend America. Given that choice, I will defend America every time. (Applause.)

Although we have not found stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, we were right to go into Iraq. We removed a declared enemy of America who had the capability of producing weapons of mass murder, and could have passed that capability to terrorists bent on acquiring them. In the world after September the 11th, that was a risk we could not afford to take.

Today, the dictator who caused decades of death and turmoil, who twice invaded his neighbors, who harbored terrorist leaders, who used chemical weapons on innocent men, women, and children, is finally before the bar of justice. (Applause.) Iraq, which once had the worst government in the Middle East, is now becoming an example of reform to the region. And Iraqi security forces are fighting beside coalition troops to defeat the terrorists and foreign fighters who threaten their nation and the world. Today, because America and our coalition helped to end the violent regime of Saddam Hussein, and because we’re helping to raise a peaceful democracy in its place, the American people are safer. (Applause.)

Only a limited mentality like Salvage and the Knoxville reporter to whom’s article he linked, could read “we have not found” and interpret it as there were “no” WMD.

Then again, Salvage is the type of guy who could show up late to an Easter egg hunt, and declare there never were any hidden eggs because he didn’t find any.

Uh yeah it does. See the lack of WMD? Means that there aren’t any WMD and that means no threat.
See how that works?

In a short sighted way, you’d be right. However, that’s like saying a man convicted of multiple murders (all using a .45cal pistol) is innocent despite the fact that he’s:
1) telling you he’s going to kill you
2) has a .45cal pistol in front of him
3) has a bag of powder, a box of shells, and a pile of .45cal bullets on the table in front of you

-Saddam threatened the US almost every day-often w chemical or biological attack
-Saddam had plenty of delivery means available (including, and most dangerously, his ties to Al Queda groups)
-UN inspectors found all the materials, equipment, and personnel ready to restart wmd programs at a moment’s notice (and Saddam himself said he was preparing to restart his programs).

Another analogy…if you like to smoke a little weed, and every few months for the past 12yrs cops come into your house w dogs and they take your weed….wouldn’t it be smart to find a way to get a little MJ w/out having it stockpiled around your house? How about if you could grow it in 2hrs? That’d sure get rid of the problem posed by dogs/inspectors. That’s what Saddam did w his wmd. He converted his programs to go from making stockpiles to making rapid restart stuff. It’s not complicated or crazy. It’s purely logical. Someone does something to you again and again for 12yrs, you find a way around it.

Oh, and the bit about “illegal”…nope. Sorry. It would only have been illegal if the invasion was done unilaterally, solely for regime change purposes, and under a UN resolution that didn’t authorize force (like UN1441), BUT it was done under UN 678 and 687 which did authorize force, were still in effect, and if the UNSC objected…they’d have at least put out a statement of objection. They didn’t.

The occupation (of course) is completely legal under UN1483sec1-4 which not only authorize the US and Coalition presence and use of force, but specifically mandate it.

You still haven’t produced one shred of proof for your position.

You’ve been proven wrong on repeatedly on this thread, yet you persist.

It’s becoming almost embarrassingly apparent that no amount of reality will crack your shell.

Oh, well.

As Tater Salad says: “You can’t fix stupid.”

Uh yeah it does. See the lack of WMD? Means that there aren’t any WMD and that means no threat.

See how that works?

>or a myriad of other reasons to invade

Alas those are all illegal and are tantamount to war crimes under both American and International law.

See invasion to change the regime to one you like? That’s illegal and that’s why the Bush Administration pushed the WMD angle so hard, no other motive was legal.

I guess I was wrong. Here I thought we had someone interested in forming their own opinion by looking at facts, not half truths and spin; a human-not a lemming.

http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/06/06/sen-intel-committee-releases-another-report-to-show-bush-lied-about-saddam/

President GW Bush

The End.

Is that what you’d like Salvage? A checklist of allegations w a Y/N next to them? I can do that if you’d like. Just ask, I’ll be happy to help. Lacking that, please tell us what you need to see to open your mind?

Round and round and round and round he runs.

It’s almost like he’s got one foot nailed to the floor.

Salvage, it’s really simple: You said “President Bush lied.”

We said “prove it” and you have, so far, not done so either due to chutzpah or lack of ability.

You said:

No one NOT ONE single solitary WMD that they talked about was true.

In return we have provided you with quotes from the intelligence community, weapons inspector reports, gov’t information from all over the globe, press accounts, and even pictures to make it easier for you.

Yet you still say:

No. WMD. in. Iraq.

Did you even look at the pictures?

Did you read what the reports have to say? We even provided links so you can read the entire report which is cited.

Did you see the photographs of the vials that were found in the refrigerator?

The banned equipment that was buried under a rose bush?

Did you see the information regarding human testing of BW and the equipment that was hidden in the mosques?

Over and over and over again your rhetoric and your version of events has been stripped away and you have been left standing there naked hanging on feebly to your empty denials.

Seems pretty obvious that the only person denying the facts is you.

You accuse us of not caring that “Muslims are being killed” and accuse us of torture and all sorts of heinous acts while at the same time denying the proof of human BW testing within the prisons of Iraq.

Unfortunately, as we have demonstrated, there is some lying going on but it is isolated to a single poster on this thread.

So tell me, why do you choose to wallow in the lies? Ego? Plain stupid?

I’ll guess it’s the latter.

“…it is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks of biological and chemical weapons. We might have destroyed them in ‘98. We tried to, but we sure as heck didn’t know it because we never got to go back there.”
-President Clinton, Larry King Live 7/22/03

Ultimately, there were not large stockpiles of wmd in Iraq (though, the entire purpose of a wmd is to not have to have a large stockpile, but a small one since a single wmd can do what a large stockpile of conventional weapons can), but inspectors did find a wmd threat in the form of what they called “breakout capability”; the ability to produce fresh wmd in months, weeks, days, or even hours.

…much of the same equipment used in making weapons of mass destruction is potentially dual-use; the same fermentor used to make anthrax could be rinse out to make beer, and the same equipment used to make the nerve agents sarin and tabun could be used to make aspirin tablets.
-Australian Ambassador Richard Butler, fmr head of UNSCOM, The Greatest Threat, Iraq, Weapons of Mass Destruction, and the Growing Crisis of Global Security [pub2000]

He’s referring to stuff like this that inspectors missed during 12yrs of inspections, but US forces found after the invasion:



(btw, this last one is of a very special New Zealand mole pesticide. It was found at the Iraqi Intelligence Services HQ, and has the same lethality in humans as anthrax).

Now, as to your quotes….
I looked up the 10/5/2002 radio address, and I think you took his quote out of context since the entire paragraph was a review of Saddam’s history. It was not a declaration of then current threats.

[full quote showing he was referencing past history]

“The danger to America from the Iraqi regime is grave and growing. The regime is guilty of beginning two wars. It has a horrible history of striking without warning. In defiance of pledges to the United Nations, Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons. Saddam Hussein has used these weapons of death against innocent Iraqi people, and we have every reason to believe he will use them again. “

I looked up the UN speech, and didn’t find your quote anywhere in there.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/09/20020912-1.html

Are you mistaken? Might I suggest that instead of looking at blood-for-oil conspiracy theory pages for your “facts”[propaganda] you look at the actual text of the speeches and form YOUR OWN opinion?

Donald Rumsfeld’s comments are irrelevant to the discussion of what President Bush said. They are as relevant imo as Vice President Gore’s comments in the same time period:

““We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.”
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002″

Now, you make a great point that there was dissent about intelligence assessments, but you ignore the fact that there always is dissent, and the preponderance of opinion was that Saddam was a threat. Remember, the reasons for war were not just to get a pickup truck loaded w WMD that could’ve moved out of Iraq anytime in the 15-17month rush to war. There were a lot of reasons.

Why do you ignore the pictures? What kind of evidence are you looking for?
-captured documents
-captured audio tapes
-detainees
-opinions from Democrats who saw the same or more intelligence?

What are you looking for?

No. WMD. in. Iraq.

That isn’t opinion that is a fact confirmed by the State Department, the Pentagon and the White House and pretty much the whole planet. The former three of course only figuring it out after killing hunderds of thousands of civilians, displaced millions more and made so many terrorists bin Laden must already think he’s in paradise.

And the following is a perfect example of BushBotism:

Anthrax, the Bush Admin merely parroted the claims from Blix’ UNMOVIC-not saying there were stockpiles, but “unaccounted for”

Uh huh:

Oct. 5, 2002
George W. Bush, Radio Address
“Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons.”

George W. Bush, Speech to UN General Assembly 9/12/2002
“Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons. We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons — the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have.”

Sep. 18, 2002
Donald Rumsfeld
His regime has amassed large, clandestine stockpiles of biological weapons—including anthrax and botulism toxin, and possibly smallpox.

And of course there’s more, all honest mistakes that anyone could have made if they just ignored anyone telling them differently and of course the facts. But BushBots don’t want facts they want to wallow in the lies because… well not really sure why you can’t admit the truth. Ego? Plain stupid? Don’t care just as long as Muslims are being killed? I confess your motives are baffling.

[drum roll]

….the envelope please….

YES! It’s the al Muthanna chemical/biological weapons and shampoo/perfume testing and storage facility! Congratulations everyone!

United Nations weapons inspectors in Iraq have discovered a new variety of rocket apparently configured to spread bomblets filled with chemical or biological agents over large areas, United States officials say.

The reconfigured rocket warheads appear to be cobbled together from Iraq’s stockpiles of imported or home-built weapons, some of which Iraq has already used with both conventional and chemical warheads. Iraq insists it has destroyed all its old chemical warheads, a claim the inspectors have not verified.

- March 11,2003

Mustard Gas Shells

Uranium enrichment centrifuge.

It was found by Inspector David Kay on the SECOND DAY of his post war inspections. Under direct orders from Qusay the scientist in charge hid the stuff by digging a deep hole under the rose bush in the private garden behind his house. Blix never found it and never would have.

Story detailed in The Bomb in My Garden by Mahdi Obeidi

We have not yet found stocks of weapons, but we are not yet at the point where we can say definitively either that such weapon stocks do not exist or that they existed before the war and our only task is to find where they have gone. We are actively engaged in searching for such weapons based on information being supplied to us by Iraqis.

***

We have discovered dozens of WMD-related program activities and significant amounts of equipment that Iraq concealed from the United Nations during the inspections that began in late 2002. The discovery of these deliberate concealment efforts have come about both through the admissions of Iraqi scientists and officials concerning information they deliberately withheld and through physical evidence of equipment and activities that ISG has discovered that should have been declared to the UN. Let me just give you a few examples of these concealment efforts, some of which I will elaborate on later:

* A clandestine network of laboratories and safehouses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment subject to UN monitoring and suitable for continuing CBW research.

* A prison laboratory complex, possibly used in human testing of BW agents, that Iraqi officials working to prepare for UN inspections were explicitly ordered not to declare to the UN.

(Lab equipment also found in mosque.)

* Reference strains of biological organisms concealed in a scientist’s home, one of which can be used to produce biological weapons.

Stored in the refrigerator in the scientist’s home.

* New research on BW-applicable agents, Brucella and Congo Crimean Hemorrhagic Fever (CCHF), and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin were not declared to the UN.

* Documents and equipment, hidden in scientists’ homes, that would have been useful in resuming uranium enrichment by centrifuge and electromagnetic isotope separation (EMIS).

* A line of UAVs not fully declared at an undeclared production facility and an admission that they had tested one of their declared UAVs out to a range of 500 km, 350 km beyond the permissible limit.

* Continuing covert capability to manufacture fuel propellant useful only for prohibited SCUD variant missiles, a capability that was maintained at least until the end of 2001 and that cooperating Iraqi scientists have said they were told to conceal from the UN.

* Plans and advanced design work for new long-range missiles with ranges up to at least 1000 km – well beyond the 150 km range limit imposed by the UN. Missiles of a 1000 km range would have allowed Iraq to threaten targets through out the Middle East, including Ankara, Cairo, and Abu Dhabi.

* Clandestine attempts between late-1999 and 2002 to obtain from North Korea technology related to 1,300 km range ballistic missiles –probably the No Dong — 300 km range anti-ship cruise missiles, and other prohibited military equipment.

- INTERIM PROGRESS REPORT ON THE ACTIVITIES OF THE ISG (October 2, 2003)

Radioactive cesium found under 30 ft pile of gravel at weapons plant.

Cesium would have been legal for Saddam to import under sanctions because it can be used to calibrate chemotherapy machines.
Of course Saddam had stockpiled a VERY large quantity of the stuff
He also
- chose to buy it on the black market,
- smuggle it into the country
- hide it from inspectors
- store it at a WEAPONS PLANT
- and buried it under a 30 ft pile of gravel.

Does this sound like calibrating chemo machines to you?