…especially when it is with someone who talks and acts just like Hitler.

Mata, with ever supposition on your part about what is going on in the Middle East it is very clear that you understand it on a very, very superficial level. So please leave the room while the big boys have a conversation.

… and iron your shirts? LOL Thank you, CentFla. You have managed to give us all a clear picture of your base mentality and testorone deficiency. All we must do is sit back, and watch you open mouth, change feet.

Condi talking to Palestine is not a POTUS talking to Palestine. That’s the prime point in all these posts… you don’t have a President sitting down unconditionally with the enemy.

You said “AQ was developed in the first place because Osama and Z hated the Saudi Government!”. You obviously know nothing of Zawahiri’s personal history with Egyptian Islamic Jihad. Even less of AQ’s history. And zip, nada, nothing of the global jihad movement’s intrarelationships with other Muslim jihad groups.

First point, Zawahiri and his EIJ didn’t come together with AQ until 1998 when he – with others – declared war on the US in the World Islamic Front Statement. He officially merged EIJ with AQ in the summer of 2001.

OBL started AQ in the late 80s, regrouping the Arab fighters from the Afghanistan-Russia war.

AQ doesn’t support or ally itself with Hamas? Below alone will reveal to you what you apparently do not know now. These are not my words, not a YouTube news blurb, not a CNN/FOX/MSNBC/Reuters/AP pundit. From, again, Zawahiri’s Open Forum, in his own words, which you… along with Flyboy Skye… don’t apparently choose to read.

The first is that I took a gradual approach with HAMAS, from advice to warning to general criticism, but when they signed the Makkah accord, frank criticism was a must. I took a gradual approach with them, but they didn’t heed the opinion of their brothers and continued in what they had plunged into, from their entering the elections in compliance with the secular constitutions to their abandonment of their brothers in Chechnya and finishing up with their abandonment of four-fifths of Palestine in Makkah.

The second is that I always differentiated in my messages between the political leaders of HAMAS and the Mujahideen of HAMAS and the rest of the Mujahideen in Palestine. I criticized the leaders of HAMAS and will continue to criticize them as long as they adhere
to the secular Palestinian constitution and as long as they don’t declare their abandonment of the Makkah accord. As for the Mujahideen of HAMAS and the rest of the Mujahideen in The Open Meeting with Shaykh Ayman al-Zawahiri As-Sahab 1429-2008 Pg. 12 of 46 Palestine, I supported them and continue to support them, and I call on the Ummah to aid them, especially the tribes of the Sinai.

Some criticized me as acting aimlessly, one time offering my condolences to the Ummah on HAMAS and another time requesting support for it, but this is not fair, for my words are clear, public and on tape. I offered my condolences to the Ummah – and continue to offer my condolences to it – on the political leadership of HAMAS, and I requested the Ummah – and continue to request it – to aid all the Mujahideen in Palestine, including the
Mujahideen of HAMAS.

So much for no allied beliefs and support.

Then of course there’s Hezbollah/Damascus/Iran. Another group worthy of a UN human rights award. That you do not consider either Hamas (majority power in Palestine since the 2006 election) and Hezbollah (the convenient proxy guerilla group for Syria), and their actions in the world, “hardline” is just breathtakingly naive.

Now we hear you believe the Iran-Iraq war two decades ago was merely about religion and suppression of Shia by Sunnis. What about the border disputes, the Arab vs Persian differences, the ethnic disputes? Not to mention the most likely reason for the war – a personal feud between Khomeni and Saddam. His Iraq, pan-Arabism quest sought to replace Iran as the area’s dominant power.

To bring down the Muslim battles to merely Sunni vs Shia is over-simplistic for convenience, and reflects a media soundbyte education. On the other hand, my bookshelf is full of books on Middle East history, acquired since 911. The relationships, ever morphing, are far more intricate.

Can you say “Islamist state”? That is my definition of “hardline”. Islamist states that seek the destruction of Israel, and removal of all western influence in the Middle East. I’d ask you what your definition is. But frankly, I don’t give a rat’s ass about anything you think.

Well, they are campaigning for him from Internet Cafe’s in Gaza.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21YF7ggCG6g

I see, so you purposely put out there something that was wrong to see who would notice it first?

You are a classic my friend.

You have, over and over and over again, like no other poster on this site, created stories as you go along. Just like this dodge about AQ. The fact is, you hear one person say something (or in my case type something) and you turn it into your own personal soap box over, and over and over again.

You claim that Barack will have to talk to AQ because he decides to talk to a Country whom Condi is already talking to. How do you contort reality so? Syria and Palestine are lead by hard line Islamists? And this is good enough to Zarwahiri to ally himself with them? You absolute ignorant person! AQ was developed in the first place because Osama and Z hated the Saudi Government!

You think that the Shia and the Sunni can put there differences aside to hate us and Isreal? Have you heard that there is a war going on in Iraq between those two exact setcs? Had you read maybe about the 1 million who died in a war between Iran and Iraq over Saddam’s Sunni Government supressing the Shia in Iraq?

Mata, with ever supposition on your part about what is going on in the Middle East it is very clear that you understand it on a very, very superficial level. So please leave the room while the big boys have a conversation.

Here is my beef. I am voting for John McCain. And as every person with a brain cell in the “proper place” knows McCain must separate himself from the retard in chief to stand a chance to win. The least popular president in the history of this country needs to shut his mouth. Do the photo ops with the African Drummers and shut up. When the chimp takes advantage of Isreal’s anniversary to compare the Terrorists with Hitler he proves to the world that he does not understand history, he does not understand the impertanance of bringing up Hitler in Isreal in any context but historical and he clearly does not care about the Isrealis as he interjects American politics into their celebration.

John McCain would do himself very well to generally disavow himself of everything that the president says from this day on and the President, who has sabatoged this party for decades to come would do well to just shut his mouth and limit the damage to the GOP to the seven plus years of lies, incompetance, and particularly arrogance as it regards his childish foriegn policy.

You Mata would do well to pick up a book every now and then instead of trying to learn everything on line.

Here we have one of the most unnoticed Mullah promoters, someone who is allegedly a member of the Mullahs secret agent network (VEVAK), now living in the U.S. and said to be working in brainwashing people in Dearborn, on behalf of the terrorist regime of Iran, meeting with Obama. I would bet my bottom dollar that he has a message from his presumed bosses in Tehran for this Democrat candidate. But how come this isn’t being reported more widely?!

As close as Obama is already with America’s enemies at home, it’s hard to imagine him not being close to those abroad. (I think I know how they might try to come back at me with this, and am ready.)

But, for now, Good Night

ThirtyMac: That cartoon you used summed up the situation perfectly.

MataH: You know what the problem is: our lefty friends don’t believe that the jihadis are seriously capable of achieving their aim of a world caliphate even though history has demonstrated they came damn near close at the at the gates of Vienna in 1683.

Our lefty friends are ignoring every warning sign like the declining birth rates of non-Muslims in Europe and the rapid immigration by Muslims and the rise in radicalism in those populations (not to mention the attacks they have already carried out or planned).

It’s a more comforting world view for them to indulge their anit-Bush prejudices rather than face that painful reality which is only been kept in check by the very people the lefties despise.

The seriuosness of the situation demands action, yet our lefty friends would handcuff the very people who grasp the danger and are acting to save us from it.

It’s frustrating trying to communicate to them what is at stake here and what their responsibility is as citizens of this country in unifying around and supporting a program that has proven to keep us safe.

And now, with this latest flap, their delusions are once again exposed. No wonder they are so desperate to obfuscate the matter and are throwing every one of their dark rhetorical gifts into the fray.

I encourage you to keep trying to enlighten those who haven’t been brainwashed by the false promises of Obama and friends. But just don’t expect much sense to come from our lefty friends. They have literally sold their souls to the Devil for the hope of political power.

I’m impressed.

You completed that entire post without using the hate-filled vitriol that we conservatives are so regularly accused of. You didn’t even use the word “retarded” in any form.

I wonder if CentFla will be able to understand it.

Did you type it slowly?

Middle East enemies and problems are not confined – nor exclusive to – Iran, Syria, Palestine, and Hamas. Just as they like to say Iraq, Afghanistan and AQ are intrinsically linked to ME peace talks between Israel and Palestine, none of these enemies are far apart from the Taliban, Hezbollah, AQ and ilk.

If you will notice with Zawahiri’s Open Forum… none of which I wager you read since it is too long and patched together to get it all quickly… there is a plan. And that plan includes all of what is currently the Middle East and the current players. There is a common bond between the Muslim countries. All have Islam as their religious majority. Some Arab states, however, are psuedo-democracy. Pakistan, UAE, etal. Others overt Muslim-dominated/ruled oppressive states.

Remember Zawahiri’s plan: Step one… get rid of Israel and the western influence. Step two, get rid of the un-Islamic Muslim governments.

Whether Hamas/Palestine, Syria or Iran, all are governed with oppressive Islamic law. Right now, they are tolerable in Zawahiri’s step one. These enemies already historically bond with AQ or anyone else in fighting the west and Israel. Then they will turn and fight each other for ultimate power.

Which brings us to the BHO “talking” foreign policy schtick and a wider view. Talk to Hamas, talk to Tehran. You make deals (foolish in itself, as said here by many), which cannot and will not be honored by the individual cells and organizations. Hamas and Hezbollah can’t control their own. Even Arafat couldn’t control Hamas.

None of these leaders will take action against their own rogue elements. Just as Saddam used jihad elements as a state weapon, Iran and Syria will do the same – and escape the primary blame. They will just take the Obama money incentives and perks, and use it covertly to advance their mission.

So BHO negotiates with the leaders. And what has been accomplished by your appeasements when their rogues do the dirty work, and the leaders merely shrug and say “hey, it wasn’t us!”?

You’re still having a hard time believing that Iranian born al-Maliki is genuinely battling Iranian elements in Basra (so far, with marked success). And he only does so because he loses power if the psuedo-democracy Iraq government does not remain legitimate. He’s no longer viable in the food chain of power.

Don’t we hear enough of your ilk whining that Pakistan takes our money and incentives, but doesn’t do enough in return to control their radical elements? How about Saudi Arabia? Now you want to add Iran and Palestine to that vintage “whine” list? At least Pakistan and Saudi are allies, not overt enemies.

To the wider view… which you choose to dismiss because you think so narrowly and ignore the global strategy… if BHO picks and chooses one enemy to engage (POTUS to chief-terrorist), and ignore another, it is hypocrisy. Why speak to Hamas – stated terror organization, Tehran – state sponsor of terror, and ignore the rest? Pray tell, just what is the difference between Hamas/Palestine, Tehran/Hezbollah and AQ or Taliban?

All are avowed enemies of the west, Israel and the US. They all have the same goal… death to Israel, and elimination of western presence in Arab lands. AQ has worked with Palestinians and consider them their comrade in arms against a common enemy. AQ has received aid, training and fighters from Iran. Why choose one enemy to speak with, and not another? Or is it only speaking to the first enemy in line, and starting a precedent?

Evidently the only one who can’t see the difference between these elements, and the goal of hardline Islamists in the Middle East, is you.

Nobody on this board is recommending talking with Al Qaeda.

Talk about retarded.

You can claim that a president who speaks to Iran is an appeaser but there is no, absolutely no truth to that statement – when you say it you are just a liar and a fearmonger.

Not every enemy is Hitler. You guys are such naive little children of the 10% fringe of this country. Continue to wear your tin foil hats if you wish. But the fact remains that when Bush cornered Qaddafi with diplomacy and a stick it worked and he caved. Not talking to those that are our enemies only assures them they will always be there enemies.

Talking is not appeasement – go read a history book and Mata, just read slowly so that you can understand. If you believe that not talking is the way to keep those thousands from dying that you write about then I am glad I am not your neighbor you hate mongering retard.

“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.”

“There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.”

——Excerpts from The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement
(Hamas), August 19, 1988

[W]ithout consideration of “traditions” and prejudices, it [Germany] must find the courage to gather our people and their strength for an advance along the road that will lead this people from its present restricted living space to new land and soil, and hence also free it from the danger of vanishing from the earth or of serving others as a slave nation.

——Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

In an era when the earth is gradually being divided up among states, some of which embrace almost entire continents, we cannot speak of a world power in connection with a formation whose political mother country is limited to the absurd area of five hundred thousand square kilometers.

—— Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

Obama, in an interview with David Brooks of the New York Times, made the following statements:

Obama compared Hezbollah to Hamas. Both need to be compelled to understand that “they’re going down a blind alley with violence that weakens their legitimate claims.”

“If your opponents are looking for your destruction it’s hard to sit across the table from them,” but, he continued: “There are rarely purely ideological movements out there. We can encourage actors to think in practical and not ideological terms.

Question for Obama: Don’t you think, what with the covenant and their actions of the last 20 years -sorry, Senator, I know you’re sensitive to the phrase “the last 20 years” – that they have well established what they feel are their “legitimate claims?”

Question for Obama: The Covenant in question contains over 90 references to Allah. It contains over 130 references to Islam. How exactly would you define an “idealogical movement?”

The above statements from “Mein Kampf” are ex ante evidence of Hitlers intentions.

Here is an excerpt from Neville Chamberlains September 3, 1939 radio address to the nation upon Britains declaraion of war, post ante to the Munich Agreement:

“His action shows convincingly that there is no chance that this man will ever give up his practice of using force to gain his will. He can only be stopped by force, and we in France are today in fulfillment of our obligations going to the aid of Poland who is so bravely resisting this wicked and unprovoked attack upon her people. We have a clear conscience, we have done all that any country could do to establish peace, but a situation in which no word given by Germany’s ruler could be trusted, and no people or country could feel itself safe, had become intolerable. And now that we have resolved to finish it, I know that you will all play your parts with calmness and courage.”

Had he – and others – realized that much earlier, a great tragedy would have been averted.

Why not just listen to what Zawahiri said himself in his “open forum” just a month or so ago. I have excerpts on my blog post. And you can read the full text of part one here.

Here’s a sample:

“8: What is the usefulness of Jihad combat actions against the apostate Arab regimes, which usually target the regimes’ lackeys without severing the heads? And how do you evaluate the results of these actions, especially in Algeria, Egypt and the country of the two Sanctuaries?”

Eighth: I talked before about the Jihadi actions in Egypt and the Arabian Peninsula, and I referred to our practical discretion at this stage, but I would like to add here three notes:

1) The clash with the corrupt regimes must occur sooner or later if we want to set up the Muslim state and liberate the lands of Islam.

2) The overall position is open to adjustment from one territory to another. So for
example, in Algeria the brothers pair targeting of Jewish and Western interests with waging a guerilla war against the hireling government, because their circumstances make it possible for them to do that.

3) Severing the heads isn’t the objective: rather, the objective is to remove the corrupt, apostate regime and set up the Islamic government. And the means of change differ from one territory to another.

What “talk” will dissuade them from their goal of a caliphate, after first removing ALL western influence. Step two for them? Removing “apostate” Arab regimes who desire democracy. If you know anything of Zawahiri’s long term goal when he was EIJ’s leader in 1993 thru merge with AQ (and when Saddam was documented as having deals with him…), then you would know Zawahiri’s ultimate goal is to overthrow Egypt’s government and return it to a state of Islam.

Just what do you think they will compromise on? The enemy seems compromise as a sign of weakness and defeat.

The blind eyes of of “let’s talk” types may be the cause of the deaths of many, and the loss of freedom for many more. And if I’m still alive at that time, I will never miss an opportunity to remind those who put us on this path of their responsibility. Talk about “retarded”….

—-Curly Howard
Three Stooges
“Idle Roomers” (1943)

In a speech this week before the Israeli Knesset, Bush said the following:

“This struggle is waged with the technology of the 21st century, but at its core it is the ancient battle between good and evil. The killers claim the mantle of Islam, but they are not religious men. No one who prays to the God of Abraham could strap a suicide vest to an innocent child, or blow up guiltless guests at a Passover Seder, or fly planes into office buildings filled with unsuspecting workers. In truth, the men who carry out these savage acts serve no higher goal than their own desire for power. They accept no God before themselves. And they reserve a special hatred for the most ardent defenders of liberty, including Americans and Israelis.

That is why the founding charter of Hamas calls for the “elimination” of Israel. That is why the followers of Hezbollah chant “Death to Israel, Death to America!” That is why Osama bin Laden teaches that “the killing of Jews and Americans is one of the biggest duties.” And that is why the president of Iran dreams of returning the Middle East to the Middle Ages and calls for Israel to be wiped off the map.

There are good and decent people who cannot fathom the darkness in these men and try to explain their words away. This is natural. But it is deadly wrong. As witnesses to evil in the past, we carry a solemn responsibility to take these words seriously. Jews and Americans have seen the consequences of disregarding the words of leaders who espouse hatred. And that is a mistake the world must not repeat in the 21st century.

Some seem to believe we should negotiate with terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along. We have heard this foolish delusion before. As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared: “Lord, if only I could have talked to Hitler, all of this might have been avoided.” We have an obligation to call this what it is – the false comfort of appeasement, which has been repeatedly discredited by history.”

He never mentioned a name, never mentioned a political party. (In fact, the American Senator referenced – “Lord if only I could have talked to Hitler” – was Willaim Edgar Borah, a Republican Senator from Idaho).

So why were Obamah and other Democrats so quick to feign indignation at being “attacked?” Could it be they are channeling Curly Howard? (It being a well settled argument that they are stooges, the remaining task is simply to determine which one).

Obama has responded with great indignation – and there are those right now offering Bush’s comments as proof of racism – but has Obama read his own website?:

“Obama is the only major candidate who supports tough, direct, presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions.”

Others say that Bush is being hypocritical, referencing this comment by Secretary of Defense Robert Gates:

“”We need to figure out a way to develop some leverage with respect to the Iranians and then sit down and talk with them.”

Pop Quiz: Do you think “without preconditions” and “develop some leverage” are inimical to one another?

And what of this response by Obama to comments by McCain:

“He accused me of not being fit to protect this nation, this nation that my grandfather served in World War II, this nation that’s given me everything that I have. So much for civility.”

What the %^&@(*!!! does his grandfather have to do with this?? And if having one’s grandfather – who married a woman so vile and racist, so typically white, that she didn’t like being panhandled by black men – fight in a war qualifies you to defend the country, wouldn’t it pale in comparison to hanging by your arms in a Hanoi prison for 5 years?

And what of his notion of “civility?” What, do tell, is civil about the Wrong Reverand Wright? What, for that matter, is civil about Michelle Obama and her quotes?, herewith a compendium:

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/04/michelle-obamas-ugly-views-of-america.html

And what of this intellectual tripe from MSNBC’s David Shuster and representative of the MSM as a whole:

“First of all, it’s offensive to a lot of people because when you talk about Adolf Hitler in the context of the Middle East, it diminishes the atrocities and just how horrific the Nazi regime really was.”

Actually, it’s a simple corollary that Bush offers – a third grader could grasp it, liberals seem incapable.

Hitler made his views of the Jews well known, the arguments of functionalist notwithstanding. Here some select passages from “Mein Kampf”:

“In heedlessly ignoring -the question of the preservation of the racial foundations of our nation, the old Reich disregarded the sole right which gives life in this world. Peoples which bastardize themselves, or let themselves be bastardized, sin against the will of eternal Providence, and when their ruin is encompassed by a stronger enemy it is not an injustice done to them, but only the restoration of justice. If a people no longer wants to respect the Nature-given qualities of its being which root in its blood, it has no further right to complain over the loss of its earthly existence.”

“The nationalization of our masses will succeed only when, aside from all the positive struggle for the soul of our people, their international poisoners are exterminated.”

“If at the beginning of the War and during the War twelve or fifteen thousand of these Hebrew corrupters of the people had been held under poison gas, as happened to hundreds of thousands of our very best German workers in the field, the sacrifice of millions at the front would not have been in vain. On the contrary: twelve thousand scoundrels eliminated in time might have saved the lives of millions of Germans, valuable for the future.”

Bear in mind, “Mein Kampf” was published in two volumes in 1925 and 1926, well before the implementaton of the “final solution.”

As compelling as those excepts are, they pale in comparison to the utterances of Mahmoud Ahmadinijad:

“Israel must be wiped off the map … The establishment of a Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world . . . The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of the war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land.”

——-October 26, 2005
In an address to 4,000 students at a program titled,
‘The World Without Zionism’

“The Zionist regime is an injustice and by its very nature a permanent threat. Whether you like it or not, the Zionist regime is heading toward annihilation. The Zionist regime is a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm.”

——–April 14, 2006
In a speech at the opening of the “Support for the Palestinian
Intifada” conference on April 14-16 hosted in Tehran

“Although the main solution is for the elimination of the Zionist regime, at this stage an immediate cease-fire must be implemented.”

——–August 2, 2006
(as quoted by Iranian TV)

“Thanks to people’s wishes and God’s will the trend for the existence of the Zionist regime is downwards and this is what God has promised and what all nations want…Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out”

——–December 12, 2006
(Comments to Iran’s Holocaust Conference)

There are plenty more, but you get the picture.

The meaning of Bush’s comments are plain and simple: When evil states it’s intentions, heed it’s words.

Of course, Obama may actually be able to forge a meaningful relationship with these types:

Ouch, Obama and the poor little Dems were hit a little too close to home by what GW said. It’s one of the best things Bush has ever said. Bravo! And he didn’t even have to mention the Dhimmicrats or any body’s name.

So sure, then he folded in Saudi Arabia, but what he said in Israel almost makes that OK.
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absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
appease the appeasers

don’t embarrass them
by calling them appeasers

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absurd thought -
God of the Universe said
have a sit down with Hitler

he should have been sweet-talked
he had goodness within

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Appeasement Talk Bothers Appeasers

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