You know the Obama campaign is seeing some baaaaad numbers over the last few days for Obama to come out and flip-flop on Wright: (via Michelle Malkin who liveblogged Obama’s speech)
“I’m outraged by the comments that were made and saddened by the spectacle. The person that I saw yesterday was not the person I met 20 years ago. His comments were not only divisive and destructive, but they end up giving comfort to those who prey on hate. I believe they do not accurately portray the perspective of the black church. They certainly don’t portray mine. If he considers this political posturing, then he doesn’t know me very well. And I don’t know him well either.”
AIDS conspiracy: “Ridiculous proposition.”
Farrakhan support and analogy of Marines/terrorism: “They offend me. They rightly offend all Americans. They should be denounced. And that’s what I’m doing clearly and unequivocally here today.”
It’s antithetical to our campaign. It’s antithetical to what I’m about. It’s not what America stands for. Rev. Wright does not speak for me. He doesn’t speak for our campaign. I can’t prevent him from making these outrageous remarks…When I say I find these statements appalling, I mean it…Makes me angry and saddens me.”
Q&A.
1) Why the change in tone between now and yesterday? Obama: “I hadn’t seen it…He wasn’t just defending himself. He was presenting a worldview…What particularly angered me was the suggestion that my previous remarks were political posturing…”
Ok. Let’s be clear then: It wasn’t the fact that Wright has been spewing this same recycled crap for years that finally got Obama mad. It was that he finally realized it was hurting his campaign. And he was personally miffed by Wright’s insults against him.
2) What does this say about your judgment to superdelegates? “The person I saw was not the person that I’d come to know over 20 years…Shocked me, surprised me.”
2:11pm Eastern. “Now is the time to pull together.” Refers to dire economic situation. “That didn’t matter to Rev. Wright. What mattered to him was commanding center stage.”
“I don’t think he showed much concern for me…or for what we’re trying to do in this campaign.”
3) Question: Have you spoken with Wright? “No.”
BO: “This has obviously put strains on the relationship” between Obama and Trinity Church.
“I want people to understand who I am. In some ways, the things Wright said yesterday directly contradict my life, issues, service, what I’ve said in my books, in my convention speech, announcement for president, everything I’ve said on the campaign trail. What I tried to do in Philadelphia was provide a context and lift up some of the contradictions and complexities in America and try to make something constructive out of it. There wasn’t anything constructive out of yesterday. All it was was a bunch of rants that aren’t grounded in truth…It was a show of disprespect to me.”
5) Question: What did Michelle Obama think? BO: “She was similarly angered.”
6) Question: Do you agree with Wright that attacks on him are attacks on black church? How important is black liberation theology?
BO: “I’m not a theologian.”
But he’s the Obamessiah!
BO: “I went to church and listened to sermons. What I heard, there’s an emphasis on importance of social struggle, striving for equality, justice, fairness, a social gospel. Rather than fancy word like black liberation theology, he uses social gospel.” Didn’t view attacks as attacks on black church.
2:23pm Eastern. There have been unfair caricatures, but “yesterday, he caricatured himself.”
Obama says he tried contacting Wright before his Philadelphia speech. He was on a cruise. When he returned, they did speak. But Obama will not elaborate. “But what I can say is that I told him I found the snippets of past sermons inexcusable.”
“There’s been great damage” to relationship with Wright. “Won’t be the same.” Denies that Wright was his spiritual mentor. But he married Michelle and I, baptized my children, prayed with us, etc. etc.
So now that his campaign is getting hurt he throws his mentor under the bus as he did his grandma. What other way can you see it other then that? There is no way, no how, Obama did NOT know what Wright was like. His speech yesterday was no different then the sermons he spewed from his racist mouth for decades. Additionally, he says he is no theologian when the Church pushed that black liberation theology hard for years also. Puhlease.
And why now? Why not when the videos first saw the light of day? Or how about the 20 years he sat in the pews?
As Michelle said, its all bullcrap.
Allah also brings up a valid point. During this press conference today Obama spoke about how good this new pastor, Otis Moss, is. Good to know:
Typical politician bullcrap.
Check out Wordsmiths take on his waffling here.
UPDATE
Mataharley made the case yesterday that Wrights behavior may be some backroom shananigans to let Obama save face:
I’m wondering if Wright is set to become a future tool for Obama to formally “eject” in the near future (as a public thing anyway). Who knows, it could already be arranged as campaign strategy/Act II. The back room workings of campaign handlers may be on to something, and this could be a big part of it. Obama “the victim” of Wright. Wright, “the nefarious” gets wealthy.
Hummmm…
And Barbara makes the same observation in this thread:
Has it occurred to anyone that these two (Obama and Wright) might have thought up this ploy as a justification for disowning Wright? Right now Obama is between a rock and a hard place but if Wright acts so outrageously Obma will have good reason to disown him. Never underestimate the political machinations of a democrat. Only at your peril. Wright is entirely too pleased with himself for me to not think this is a political gambit.
Excellent points….this whole thing does seem a bit too smooth and silky.
UPDATE II
Jim Geraghty on the Obama speech on race a few weeks back which now look utterly ridiculous with the events of the past few days:
The “not once have I heard him” line sounds particularly implausible today.
I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community.
Obama has now disproven this. Also note how this statement echoes Wright’s insistence that he is not being criticized, but that the entire black church is under attack.
I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother – a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.
This looked ridiculous at the time, but I wonder how Obama feels about this maddening comparison now.
~~~In light of events in the past 72 hours, a lot of this looks ridiculous now.
Can we dismiss Reverend Wright as a crank or a demagogue? Yes we can, no irony intended. Those of us who were shocked and appalled by those first clips of Wright’s sermons were right, and Barack Obama, and all of those who accused us of judging Wright unfairly, were wrong.
See author page
Why did I call him Grampy McCain? He can’t seem to recall the difference between the Sunnis and Shiites…
For your viewing pleasure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EetobKXQsr8
Uddercha0s:
you want to know a little more about Obama and Reaching across the Isle??? here it is:
During his eight years in the Illinois state Senate, Obama worked with both Democrats and Republicans to help working families get ahead by creating programs like the state Earned Income Tax Credit, which in three years provided over $100 million in tax cuts to families across the state. Obama also pushed through an expansion of early childhood education, and after a number of inmates on death row were found innocent, Senator Obama enlisted the support of law enforcement officials to draft legislation requiring the videotaping of interrogations and confessions in all capital cases.
Then there is this LIE by Fox so called news. That Obama attended a Radical Muslim School…
That is total BS yet it spread like wildfire throughout the right wing talk and TV shows…
Check out the truth:
JAKARTA, Indonesia (CNN) — Allegations that Sen. Barack Obama was educated in a radical Muslim school known as a “madrassa” are not accurate, according to CNN reporting.
Insight Magazine, which is owned by the same company as The Washington Times, reported on its Web site last week that associates of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-New York, had unearthed information the Illinois Democrat and likely presidential candidate attended a Muslim religious school known for teaching the most fundamentalist form of Islam.
Obama lived in Indonesia as a child, from 1967 to 1971, with his mother and stepfather and has acknowledged attending a Muslim school, but an aide said it was not a madrassa. (Watch video of Obama’s school )
Insight attributed the information in its article to an unnamed source, who said it was discovered by “researchers connected to Senator Clinton.” A spokesman for Clinton, who is also weighing a White House bid, denied that the campaign was the source of the Obama claim.
He called the story “an obvious right-wing hit job.”
Insight stood by its story in a response posted on its Web site Monday afternoon.
The Insight article was cited several times Friday on Fox News and was also referenced by the New York Post, The Glenn Beck program on CNN Headline News and a number of political blogs.
Sky55110 Thanks for confirming that Obama has done NOTHING as a U.S. Senator to work across the aisle.
In fact, as that bodies most LIBERAL member, as rated by National Journal, he’s known for being entirely partisan.
And thanks also for confirming that Obama attended a Muslim school in Indonesia.
Did you also find out if he worshipped at the mosque?
Mike:
Obama’s first law in the senate was passed with Republican Tom Coburn.
He has also traveled with Dick Lugar to Russia on a new generation of of Non-proliferation agreements.
there are more but YOU look it up!!!!
Is this idea he worshipped at a mosque your way of spreading more LIES???
Ooooo, a history of 2. WOW. And how historic were those laws from Sen Obama? So historic that you have to look em up. Nah, the guy’s pure panderer, but he sells the sizzle that the anti-Republicans like; sizzle sans steak.
In contrast, all you can muster about Sen McCain is a bumble of the tongue after a 22hr flight and a few days in Baghdad heat, or rants about his age.
Admit it, the only thing you like about Obama is that he’s not Hillary, and the primary reason you dislike McCain is because you’re closed minded lemming that won’t (can’t?) dare look at anyone with an R next to their name.
The evil Tom Coburn who is just as guilty of criminality as Obama’s Weather Underground friend AYERS?
Obama is the most partisan member of the U.S. Senate.
Get over it.
Then go worship at your local mosque and ask if Obama’s been there.
He certanly did not reach across the aisle for BAIPA. Born Alive Infant Protection Act
http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/aborted-alive/
“In essence, these acts state that, whether wanted or not, once a baby is fully born, it is recognized as fully human and is entitled to equal protection of the law under the 14th Amendment. Even pro-abortion Democrats supported the BAIPA because it contained explicit language that it would not infringe on any abortion rights. Democrat Barbara Boxer, arguably the Senate’s most zealous pro-choice advocate, agreed that, with this language, the “amendment certainly does not attack Roe v. Wade.”
But not Obama. In March of 2001, Obama’s Illinois Judiciary Committee considered a law substantially identical to the BAIPA. It passed the Committee, with Obama voting against. In front of the full Illinois Senate, Obama was the only senator to speak against the bill, arguing that life protection extended to any (!) preterm babies (ponder that) could jeopardize abortion rights. He voted “present,” tantamount to a “no” vote. In March of 2002, Obama’s Committee passed the Induced Birth Liability Act, requiring medical care for babies who survive induced labor abortions – Obama again voting “present,” arguing that the Act would “create one more burden on women, and I can’t support that.”
In 2003, the Democrats took control of the Illinois Senate, and Obama became Chairman of the Health and Human Services Committee. A Committee member sponsored an Amendment that would adopt the exact same language in Illinois’s proposed BAIPA that Senator Boxer was satisfied did not curtail any abortion rights in the federal BAIPA. But as Chairman, Obama unilaterally killed the bill by never allowing a Committee vote, thereby preventing it from being voted on by the full Senate and becoming law.
Obama’s position essentially boils down to this: a woman who contracts for an abortion is entitled, one way or another, to a dead baby. A dead baby must result, even if that baby had already been a distinct living being.”
What a joke… there are some here who cut/paste from Obama’s campaign site to cite “accomplishments. Well… at least, Udder, she’s reading *something*.
IL Earned Income Tax Credit is an accomplishment of reaching across the “Isle” ?? (by that scholarly spelling, perhaps it’s the British Isle’s we’re discussing… dunno).
Let’s muddy the BS with a few facts, eh? Sponsored/co-sponsored by 14 IL Senators. None of them His Messiahship, BTW. Guess that “working across the aisle” accomplishment boils down to he showed up and cast a vote for a change. Wow…. I’m just bowled over with awe.
Of course, the EITC is for the low income (who pay barely any taxes on their $10.7K and under/four person household income – and the total of these low income taxpayers contribute 13% or under of the entire State’s tax revenue). Plus, the following are ineligible for the up to $204 credit (based on the amount for that four family household, $10.7k income).
Missing out are:
Foster parents
Parents of totally and permanently disabled adult children
Parents of children under age 24 who are full-time students
Parents of children turning 18 in a taxable year
Childless adults
Dang… who’s left? Parents of children who don’t go to school, and aren’t disabled?
While the Obama cyber campaign staff are at FA, pasting campaign BS talking points as facts, they may want to check under the “People” heading and see how the candidate – prouding bridging the divides – neatly categorizes his constituents into different classes/gender/race with their very own blog posts. How “united” of him.
Udder… you’re wise not to waste any more time posting links for those who don’t read anything but campaign sites. However the rest of us always appreciate your input.
PS: EITC reduced the IL Income tax revenue by $60.5 mil in 2005. Wonder from which “class” of productive citizens they’re picking up the difference? ‘Cus they sure aren’t spending less.
Actually, Obama did attend a Muslim school.
He said so in his own book.
He wrote about getting into trouble for making faces in his “Koranic Studies” class. Obama can still recite the opening lines of the call to prayer.
Even when attending the local Catholic school he did so under Muslim registration. He took religion classes based on that Muslim registration.
He also wrote about attending the local mosque with his step-father. Those around him knew and remember him as being Muslim. He even wore a sarong.
His grandparents were Muslim.
His father was Muslim. In Islam the religion passes from the father to the child.
His step-father was Muslim.
Barack is an Arabic name. So is Hussein. So is Obama.
You do the math.
Did I ever once say his father was not a muslim??
Did I ever once say he did not attend a muslim school???
I did say he did NOT attend a Madrassa…. that was the Insight and FOX news LIE.. brought to you by John Gibson. Then spread further by Glenn Beck…
Barack is a Swahili name…
Hussein is a Arabic name
Obama is a name from Kenya…
Barack means “May God Bless you”
by the way.. did I mention his is a CHRISTIAN????
you do the math
OK it was A Clintonian that said he went to a Madrassa, old news I knew that last year. It was a lie by the Clintons, not Fox News, they just reported it.
What religion did his Swahili family attend??
Hussein is Arabic
What religion did his family attend from Kenya???
And he is about as Christian as his Preacher Rev Wright. Black Liberation Theology is as close to being Christian as a Buddghist is. It is a Political theology that preaches Marxism and has nothing to do with Christianity.
I love it when the Obamatons start to sputter!
Sky55110: You said: “Is this idea he worshipped at a mosque your way of spreading more LIES???”
You want to take that back now that Aye Chihuahua has brought you up to speed?
Who is the liar here 55110?
Want another cracker Polly?
Obama’s actual US Senate accomplishments. Just a short post here, folks. Not much to work with. All life changing legislation on “major” issues. Uh huh
Passed Senate
Jun 26, 2007 S.Con.Res. 25: A concurrent resolution condemning the recent violent actions of the Government of Zimbabwe against peaceful opposition party activists and members of civil society.
Passed Senate
Jul 13, 2007 S.Res. 268: A resolution designating July 12, 2007, as “National Summer Learning Day”.
Passed Senate
Mar 28, 2007 S.Res. 133: A resolution celebrating the life of Bishop Gilbert Earl Patterson.
For his IL service, here’s the link to bookmark… the page to search the IL General Assembly’s online records. BHO was there from the 85th to 91st sessions.
Perhaps this will eliminate the spread of campaign propaganda, as the documented “accomplishments” will be at our fingertips.
Um, Sky, I hate to be the one to break it to you but the Arabic word for school is madrasah or madrassa if you prefer that spelling. So, yes, despite your false conclusion and your effort to get us to believe your lies, Obama did indeed attend a madrasah.
Remember, Google is your friend.
Barack is a derivation of Baraka which is Arabic and is included in the Koran. Through slave trading the word Baraka made its way into the Swahili language. It means “lightening” in Arabic.
Obama is an Arabic name as well. You really should do some research.
Under Islamic law and Arab culture if your father is Muslim then so are you. Once a Muslim, always a Muslim in the eyes of their culture and under their law. You cannot change. In Islamic eyes, he’s Muslim. He may think he’s a Christian, but they do not.
More precisely Muslims may very well consider him to be murtadd which would allow them to shed his blood. (That means that under Islamic law it would be OK to kill him.)
Of course, another Muslim word comes to mind:
Taqiyya.
I’ll let you look that one up Sky.
While you’re at it, why don’t you research why Obama isn’t “African-American” as defined by US law.
As B. Hussein Obama himself said: “Words matter.”
Would you like a calculator?
Welcome to the fray Aye Chihuahua.
You bring a welcome mix of linguistic and theological knowledge.
I’ve heard several accounts on how a BHO Presidency could possibly generate some thorny diplomatic issues with the Muslim world; as he would be considered an apostate.
However, in the event that he is a Taqiyya(h) as you mentioned, that would definitely make for more “domestic” issues to be sure.
On another front, the Guam primary has BHO looking pretty week. Guam should have been a slam dunk for him with his Hawaii roots, but all he managed to pull out was a 7 vote victory; that’s right 7 VOTES! Hillary has to be liking her chances in Indiana, and maybe even feeling that North Carolina is not completely out of reach…
Looks like the wheels are starting to come off the bus that BHO threw his grandmother under. Tuesday night should be entertaining.
P.S.: Mata, didn’t you know that bringing up the fact that BHO’s favorite vote for most bills is “present” is a “distraction” from the real issues?
Ahh, every morning is like Christmas. I wake to the gifts of knowledge that the majority of FA posters leave, although some posters leave a glass of kool-aid and soy cookies. Nothing like a little mix of Religion and Politics to start your morning off (w)right. I loved how the topic instantly diverted from accomplishments to Fox News lying about madrassas. It’s like some perverted shell game.
Aye Chihuahua, I’ll repeat Machiavelli’s statement, Welcome to the fray and thanks for the insight.
“Remember, Google is your friend.”
I had this idea the other day that Microsoft has released a new version of MS Bob, maybe BOBama 2008, “What do you want to believe today?” and that Google is blocked from it. The only places allowed are HuffPo, DUmmieLand, DailyKosak. I think the ability to reach FA is a bug.
I digress, on to more serious things. Machiavelli, the Guam primary is just the tip of the melting iceberg. It isn’t over yet. I found this little gem:
Officials Say Recount Is ‘Imminent’
Pacific News Center Staff Reporter 04.MAY.08
9:30 a.m. Guam – The Democrat Party Nominating Committee said officials will look over the large amount of “spoiled ballots” in the coming days.
At issue is the small margin of victory of Senator Barack Obama. He beat his rival, Senator Hillary Clinton by 7 votes, but well over 500 ballots were deemed invalid during the tabulation process.
Herbie Perez, chairman of the nominating committee, said she will not certify the results because the Committee needs to ensure that all the uncounted ballots were properly identified as “spoiled.”
She said officials from the Party and representatives from both candidates will meet probably Monday or Tuesday to address that issue.
Perez revealed she is also looking into the missing ballots.
More than 8,100 were printed in response to reports of shortages at precinct sites. But when the final tally came in, only a little over 4,500 ballots were used.
Aye Chihuahua..
I hate to break it to you but he did NOT Attend a Madressa… YOU sir are totally full of crap on that one.. I can’t believe you drank the right wing koolaid and can’t see what you have been fed.
Saying he did attend a Madressa that was the Insight Magazine and FOX news LIE.. brought to you by John Gibson. Then spread further by Glenn Beck…
check this out:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/22/obama.madrassa/
end of story
Aye Chi… like a clock with a dead battery, right twice daily… the Obama campaign talking points plant here at FA is half right.
She is correct that the school Obama attended was a public school, and not an institution dedicated to elightenment/education of Islamic education… which is the common definition for a madrasah. An Islamic seminary, if you will.
However she also is incorrect in losing her cool at the notion that anyone saying Obama attended a madrasah is an accusation. Only duped or ill-informed westerners hear the word and consider it a code word for a school dedicated to teaching future jihad members.
Fact is, they can teach jihad in universities, colleges, public schools, jails, churches, mosques, the Internet, street corners, etal, as well as madaris… or not. It’s akin to the fact that all jihadists are Muslim, but not all Muslims are jihadists.
Again I find the retort too overblown with false confidence in deficient education and western concepts. Not to mention her spelling and/or typing abilities still continue to be deplorable…. as well as her social manners.
Then again, whenever my blood starts running warm, I remember she raised an exceptional young man who chose to go his own way – now serving our country – despite his mother’s naive and emotional beliefs. This is a mark of good parenting I would think, and perhaps her greatest achievement in life.
Sure wish she’d lose the oft mentioned and highly sophomoric kool-aid expression, however. It is getting ever so tiresome.
BTW, Aye Chi… You seem like a research oriented person. You may like this link I use to the Shi’ite Encyclopedia. i.e. your thought of what “Taqiyya” means is different from Shia to Sunni useage.
The Shia interpretation is more akin to “diplomacy” than lies of convenience. The Sunni, closer to your probably suggested meaning, only sanction that for few exceptional cases. None of which would fit His Messiahship.
These nuances in different Arabic dialects and culture is why I pay lots of attention to what Nibras says over at Talisman Gate. Can sometimes make a world of difference when interpreted wrong.
I must apologize to Sky55110. I had been calling him an Obama parrot. Cleary he is NOT a parrot. More like a Cuckoo.
Mach… “distract” and run is what I live for… LOL!
Mata, I’m not so sure about that. It would appear that the literal translation of Madrassa (Madrassah) translates to school, whether secular or religious.
http://www.reference.com/search?r=13&q=Madrassa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrassa
http://middleeast.about.com/od/glossary/g/me071202b.htm
“The negative connotation of the word “madrassa” as it’s come to be understood in the English-speaking world–as referring to a place where fundamentalist, Islamic instruction is combined with anti-western vocations, or in the extreme, as a place where terrorists are formed ideologically–is largely an American and British conceit. It is for the most part, but not entirely, inaccurate”
Anyone fluent in Arabic that can put this to rest?
I agree with you on the rest though MataH.
Thanks for the links MataH. It took a while for my post to hit and several of your posts were after that. Off to dig myself.
Sky,
This is really really simple.
It shouldn’t be difficult even for you.
Obama attended a Muslim school. The Muslim word for school is madrasah.
So, therefore, yes Obama attended a madrasah.
Continually linking CNN doesn’t prove anything. In fact, CNN is as wrong as you on the meaning of the word.
Remember what I said about Google. It’ll help you keep from making as much of a fool of yourself.
Mata,
Thanks for the links. I will nose around in there and see what I can find.
The word madrasah simply means school. Only in the last couple of years, through improper usage has it taken on a more radical meaning.
I’m not sure why Sky insists on being so stubborn. I guess that’s the moonbat blood in him.
Either way Sky is fooling himself into believing what he wants to about BHO’s education.
The facts remain undisputed.
By the way, I was thinking of the Sunni definition.
Mata,
Are you sure that Sky is female?
Yes, Aye Chi. In one of her first postings where she and I were cyber chatting, she mentioned she is the mother of one of America’s finest, serving (I believe) in Iraq. She is understandably fretting for his safety, prays for him nightly, as most of us do for all our men and women there. What a cat’s meow of youth we have today in them. Gives me hope for the leaders a few decades from now.
In another thread, she also mentioned she was a white female who supported Obama. I’m going to take her at her word. And I most certainly understand a concern for your child’s safety… even tho officially a young man, old enough to make his own decisions. But there is nothing more heartbreaking than those that have had to bury their children.
So yes… my heart goes out to her. Still get annoyed with the constant “kool-aid” and choice of educational reading material tho. That’s why I ceased providing her with any more links. She’s set in her thought patterns, and it’s a cyber waste of bandwidth to convince one so unmoveable.
That’s cool Mata.
I just had reason to think otherwise.
I noticed that there are other posters referring to Sky as “him”.
Perhaps Sky will clarify for us.
Yeah… I though 55110’s writing was a bit “mannish” myself.
Aye Chi, my belief of the madrasah… limited by my western concepts… came from reading other articles from Islamic authors back a few years. I never archived them, but here’s one with the gist of their views of education. It also gives the history of the madrasah.
Pertinent excerpts to see how they meld spirituality, the creator (in this case, Allah) in harmony with education. Something our public schools cannot do with separation of church and state.
BTW, Udder… I have many problems with the al-Islam site too. But there’s many sites with better explanations of Islam interpretations. Usually hosted by Muslims themselves. I generally steer clear of places like About and encyclopedias as they are very westernized, and I find contrary to what Muslims say. The nuances are everything. And I steer clear of wikipedia altogether! LOL
OK, Aye Chi… went back thru the archives.
Here’s the thread where Skye55110 mentioned son’s service in Iraq, with add’l follow up here.
However my memory of “white female” that supports Obama is actually a “white suburban Democrat”.
So perhaps you guys are right that the Obama plant is male, not female. Odd that you think the posts are so “mannish”, and I think they are so menopausal emotional that it couldn’t be anything but female… LOL
Go no with the the faceless monikers on the internet, eh? I woulda thought Skye55110 was all woman. Feisty and wrong, but all woman. Then again, such is atypical of all too many liberal/progressive men.
If you are male, oh Skye55110, so sorry for mis-categorizing you… you’ll find YOUR appropriate category on Obama’s website tho… Mr. Let’s Divide the Nation via race/gender/class.
For the rest of you…. speaking of Obama “accomplishments”… that IL EITC that yielded an additional 17 bucks a month to a family of four making $10K or so annually? How come he thinks *that* makes such a difference, but doesn’t think the gas tax holiday means sheeeeeet. Afterall, the EITC lost over $60 mil in IL revenue, but he didn’t care. Why should he care about losing revenue to the feds for a few months for that paltry gas tax holiday? Weird duck… very weird.
Good morning MataH and all the rest of you FA dwellers,
“I generally steer clear of places like About and encyclopedias as they are very westernized, and I find contrary to what Muslims say. The nuances are everything. And I steer clear of wikipedia altogether! LOL”
I understand your point on the westenization and that is part of the problem with this whole story being blown out of proportion. The news in their need to sensationalize things often give the wrong impression whether purposely or not in this case is debatable. I will be the first to claim ignorance on my knowledge of Islam. I know personally, I never imagined the school that Obama attended was teaching some radical, fundementalist form of Islam. Were such schools even in existence at that time? Here’s my thoughts on it, much like you and Aye Chi have stated:
His grandfather and father were muslim and through tradition he was exposed to Islam as well. My own religious upbringing follows the same pattern as I am sure most people’s do. I don’t hold against him his exposure to Islam. It’s times like these I wish I had taken an Intro to Islam 101 course haha. In Obama’s own words, he was disinterested in religion. I think that he believed early on that religion is the opium of the people. That is where I start to have a problem with Obama. I think Obama has used religion as a means to an end and that end isn’t a spiritual end ,but a political one. I suspect he is as much Christian as he is Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist or Hindi for that matter.
As for about, wiki and such. I was swayed more by the about.com article since it’s author was from Beirut (which is a plus) and wrote on ME issues (which can be a negative if there’s bias). I don’t typically like to use them as references and prefer to get it straight from the horses mouth so to speak. Unfortunately with cultural differences that makes it somewhat hard. It’s times like these I wish I was back at my previous employer where I had access to people of every culture that I could just ask. When I provide nothing but those for reference you can pretty much guess my research and interest level is not too high lol. As for wiki itself, I usually try to tread cautiously there, the first thing I look for is the blaring !! contested !! notice at the top. The references many times point to much better sources.
Have a great day all.. off to pay taxes.
Sky55110,
We’re eagerly awaiting your return to this thread so that you can address the misrepresentation of facts that you left us with on your last visit.
You have been presented with multiple sources which directly refute your claims.
Are you going to simply avoid this thread completely or are you man enough to admit that you have been proven wrong?
I rest my case on the CNN interpretation of the word Medressa… which must be more of it’s currently used meaning than it’s older meaning. The current usage of the word points more towards a radical Islam school. Obama did NOT attend a school like that.
Mata Harley if you are still wondering.. I am a guy… you assumed I was a gal in one of your earlier posts I just never corrected you.
The nick name came because I am a private pilot. Then just adding my zip code.
Yes, I have a son in Baghdad fighting the senseless war. I really wish we had finished Afghanistan. Going into Iraq was just because of a stupid cowboy president.
So let me make sure that I understand this.
You’re admittedly going to rely on CNN’s misinterpretation and/or misrepresentation of the word madrassah?
Your source has been totally and thoroughly debunked yet you’re going to continue to stand by that information.
At the same time, you expect us to take you seriously in all of your other posts and the things you choose to present as being “fact”.
Is that what I’m to understand?
You are a real piece of work.
I don’t consider it debunked!!!! CNN is correct in it’s current usage.. The current usage of the word points more towards a radical Islam school. DID YOU MISS THAT???
Actually, CNN is incorrect.
The word means “school” plain and simple. Nothing more, nothing less. Madrassah can be used to describe any type of educational facility, from kindergarten to college. Much like we use the word “school” in the same sort of way.
Did you miss the multiple sources that support what I am saying to you?
By the way, thanks for the additional personal information.
That helped me to confirm what I already believed to be true.
Mata H: I understand your confusion regarding 55110’s chromosonal distribution.
It may be that we have a case of what one talk jock calls “the new castrati.”
Somehow, that designation seems to fit with being an Obamaton where reality can be redefined in a way that not even the Clintons thought possible.
What a shame that the Obamaton under discussion would prefer the distraction (word of the month for Obamatons) of Obama’s Muslim heritage than deal more directly with the clear defects of Obama’s character exhibited throughout the Wright scandal.
Must mean they know they have lost that argument.
OK, group. I’ll play school marm here.
I think that there’s a degree of “correct” to both sides here. From my understanding of madrasah from Muslims is that a school in the Islamic educational systems differs much from our western view of schools. While the Islam schooling may not be pure “seminary”, it most definitely does include a sense of Allah in education, without necessarily preaching Quran specifics.
So let’s call it a draw. It’s not strictly “school” in the western sense of the word. Nor is it a school of jihad. Skye55110 takes offense at many using the word because in the CNN/western interpretation becaues it insinuates that it is a school that preaches radical Islam.
So I do agree with Skye55110 (uh… did I just say that??? Historic!) that – in the western concept – Obama did not attend a school that advocates and teaches jihad.
However, Mr. Skye55110 (thanks for the gender update… I won’t assume incorrectly in the future), you may not want to take such offense of many here’s useage of the word madrasah. They are not necessarily implying Obama was indoctrinated to jihad. Obviously I’m not a supporter. But hang… I doubt most believe the guy is a closet supporter of Islamic law as rule of the land, nor an instrument of jihad waiting to explode upon taking the oath of office.
We do have many disagreements on issues. Can I assume we all agree on this particular one? There’s plenty else to debate.
And Skye55110… can you lose the kool-aid phrase before I lose my mind please???
And I will repeat, because I believe this to be very true. Despite my differences with Flyboy Skye (separating from FA’s Skye), I cannot help but believe that he did a fabulous job in parenting to raise a son who became a soldier of his own volition. This is a child who, while holdinge differing opinions, still chose his own way – and did not feel threatened to lose his father’s love because of that choice.
I can agree with that Mata.
He did got to a Muslim school, but I definitely do not think that he was taught the extreme Wahhabi religion that they do in Pakistan or Afghanistan.
I didn;t get invoved with this argument because I agree that both are correct in some ways. Madrassa is “school” in Arabic, but to Westerners it is the schools that teach hate, or at least that is waht we think of when we hear Madrassa
If we want to talk about theology, there is something much more glaring right in front of us than a kid 40 years ago attending a school that had Islamic studies.
We know that Obama has attended the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago for 20 years. The Rev has told us that its foundation is Black Liberation Theology, based in part on the writings of James Cone. This guy is creepy. He made up God in his image and likeness. Here he is in his own words:
Cone has based his work on Liberation Theology which appeared in South America in the 1950’s as a subset of Roman Catholic theology. The Church didn’t necessarily condemn “liberation” but warned of the Marxist ideology that could injected into the theology. Cardinal Ratzinger wrote about this in 1984:
I leave it to you to decide whether TUCC and the Rev are teaching the Christian theme of Liberation or the Marxist theme.
The above message has been a problem child. It looks like the links didn’t come through.
Cone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1X5sZ6Q4Fw
Ratzinger:
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19840806_theology-liberation_en.html
Mata Harley,
Thank you for putting it so eloquently. You do very well at playing school marm.
I did not have time to be on yesterday.
BHO had a very good night last night. I am guessing wildly that Clinton will call it quits in the next few days.
It’ll be interesting to see how Senator Obama’s policies morph towards the center after he secures the nomination.
Mata,
While I appreciate your attempt to play “school marm” I’m afraid that I have to disagree with you.
When I’m right I’m right, and I don’t back down or cede the high ground when I have the facts on my side.
Sky has stated here multiple times that the Obamessiah did not attend a madrassah. The truth is that he did.
Sky, like many others, whether intentionally or not, continues to rely on an incorrect definition of the word. Even after being corrected, he continues.
In the English language we use the word “school” to describe any and all types of learning institutions from kindergarten to college. All types of learning institutions are covered by the word “school” whether they be private, public, parochial, religious, liberal, conservative, military, etc.
The same is true of the word madrassah. It can be appropriately applied to any and all types of learning institutions.
Although I was convinced of the solidity of my position, I went back and did additional research to recheck my position since we began this discussion. I have checked multiple dictionaries, encyclopedias, and other reference materials. They all agree with my position.
Sorry to be a putz, but those are the facts.
If he wishes, Sky can argue that the madrassah the Obamessiah attended wasn’t radical, but he cannot argue that he never attended a madrassah.
As the Obamessiah has said, “Words matter”.
Yes, words matter… check this out!!! McCain accepting this preachers support….
http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/38133-mccain-s-spiritual-guide-wants-america-to-destroy-islam
Not the same as Obnamassiah’s preacher REv Wright. McaCain did not go to his church for 20 yars. A little bit of difference there.
McCain accepted his support in a very public way knowing what he stood for… even called him his spiritual guide…
But you give McCain a pass????
sorry guilt by association plays in here… same game different person.
Who married Sen McCain, baptized his kids, and served on his campaign spiritual advisory committee?
Nah, sorry Sky, but your comparison would be better to Rev Jackson or Rev Sharpton. Rev Wright is in a class of his own. There is no excuse for people of his ilk.
“… even called him his spiritual guide…”
That, Sir, is a bold-faced lie.
Of course, that is not surprising considering the source.
You would benefit greatly from a review of the facts.
excuuuuuuuuuse me “called him a spiritual guide” that would be a quote…