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	<title>Comments on: The &#8220;Cease Fire&#8221;</title>
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		<title>By: DJ Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/04/01/the-cease-fire/#comment-33803</link>
		<dc:creator>DJ Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=4298#comment-33803</guid>
		<description>ChrisG

No problem.  I am currently in the minutia of the Apr ISF OOB update for LWJ, so all the data is right at my fingertips.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ChrisG</p>
<p>No problem.  I am currently in the minutia of the Apr ISF OOB update for LWJ, so all the data is right at my fingertips.</p>
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		<title>By: ChrisG</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/04/01/the-cease-fire/#comment-33773</link>
		<dc:creator>ChrisG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 11:46:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=4298#comment-33773</guid>
		<description>Thanks Dj,

It is difficult to keep up with units now that I am not right there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Dj,</p>
<p>It is difficult to keep up with units now that I am not right there.</p>
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		<title>By: DJ Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/04/01/the-cease-fire/#comment-33700</link>
		<dc:creator>DJ Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 08:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=4298#comment-33700</guid>
		<description>Note:  Elements of the 36th Mech Bde of the IA 9th Div have been in Basrah since November.

Also, six Anbaris were KIA in Basrah and their bodies returned to Ramadi last week.
Considering the IA initial stationing policy, the fact that most Anbaris did not join the IA until last year, and the re-destignation of the 1st IA Div as Strategic Reserve QRF Div:  Probably have elements of 1st Div in Basrah.

The BMP did not belong to 14th Div.  They were never issued any.  That is probably 36th Mech Bde.   Although 35th Armor Bde is mostly unlocated ATT.   The only IA Bn left in Taji belongs to 1st Div, they are using 2-1 INP Bde to cover most of 9th Mech Div&#039;s home areas...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note:  Elements of the 36th Mech Bde of the IA 9th Div have been in Basrah since November.</p>
<p>Also, six Anbaris were KIA in Basrah and their bodies returned to Ramadi last week.<br />
Considering the IA initial stationing policy, the fact that most Anbaris did not join the IA until last year, and the re-destignation of the 1st IA Div as Strategic Reserve QRF Div:  Probably have elements of 1st Div in Basrah.</p>
<p>The BMP did not belong to 14th Div.  They were never issued any.  That is probably 36th Mech Bde.   Although 35th Armor Bde is mostly unlocated ATT.   The only IA Bn left in Taji belongs to 1st Div, they are using 2-1 INP Bde to cover most of 9th Mech Div&#8217;s home areas&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Gregory Dittman</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/04/01/the-cease-fire/#comment-33695</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregory Dittman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 08:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=4298#comment-33695</guid>
		<description>Igor, wouldn&#039;t that be Iraqi military 1 rats 0?  The U.S. military can&#039;t win battles it&#039;s not involved or not much involved in.

Maybe the BMP destroyed itself.  I read where one of the first BMPs designs were captured in some conflict and brought to the U.S.  The military couldn&#039;t check out its performance because the safety inspector claimed the transmission could catch fire and burn up the crew.

It could have also been an enemy BMP that was destroyed.

Cleaning house of JAM spies was probably one of the main reasons for the Basra.  That&#039;s where Sadr really got hit.  Those that were fired, were already JAM members, so claiming they were going over to JAM would be redundant.

The Iraqis would probably go through several tests to clean ranks.  Maliki would probably score political points for that.  Maliki could also score points for stepping down after this term showing he actually cares about the voting process rather than a power grab.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Igor, wouldn&#8217;t that be Iraqi military 1 rats 0?  The U.S. military can&#8217;t win battles it&#8217;s not involved or not much involved in.</p>
<p>Maybe the BMP destroyed itself.  I read where one of the first BMPs designs were captured in some conflict and brought to the U.S.  The military couldn&#8217;t check out its performance because the safety inspector claimed the transmission could catch fire and burn up the crew.</p>
<p>It could have also been an enemy BMP that was destroyed.</p>
<p>Cleaning house of JAM spies was probably one of the main reasons for the Basra.  That&#8217;s where Sadr really got hit.  Those that were fired, were already JAM members, so claiming they were going over to JAM would be redundant.</p>
<p>The Iraqis would probably go through several tests to clean ranks.  Maliki would probably score political points for that.  Maliki could also score points for stepping down after this term showing he actually cares about the voting process rather than a power grab.</p>
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		<title>By: ChrisG</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/04/01/the-cease-fire/#comment-33630</link>
		<dc:creator>ChrisG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 03:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=4298#comment-33630</guid>
		<description>BMPs are not tanks, but the media is not known for accuracy or knowledge....

BMPs really do explode very easily and would not pass US safety tests for combat vehicles.  They are cramped, under-armored (M2/M3A3s beat them hands down), improperly vented, and poorly designed (the doors in the back of the BMP-1 are fuel pods.... You exit through the top or the rear fuel tanks... think about that).  The BMP-1 is the oldest and worst of the series.  That said, it still works against unarmored troops.

On the plus side, it has a VERY low profile and can supposedly float like our AAAV7s and LAVs but ONLY in calm water (when the moon is aligned with Venus, etc).

I will also back up that the 14th is one of Iraq&#039;s newest divisions.  I do not know why the 9th Mech was not sent in, though it may be deployed along the border or otherwise unavailable.    

I am not surprised the media reports the same vehicle as a new kill using different angles.  As I have said before, they did this many times reporting IEDs and other attacks.  One was the Crude oil fired power plant and neighboring refinery south of the IZ which CNN knew was a power plant/refinery and still reported it as a &quot;massive attack&quot; on the IZ in April 2007.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BMPs are not tanks, but the media is not known for accuracy or knowledge&#8230;.</p>
<p>BMPs really do explode very easily and would not pass US safety tests for combat vehicles.  They are cramped, under-armored (M2/M3A3s beat them hands down), improperly vented, and poorly designed (the doors in the back of the BMP-1 are fuel pods&#8230;. You exit through the top or the rear fuel tanks&#8230; think about that).  The BMP-1 is the oldest and worst of the series.  That said, it still works against unarmored troops.</p>
<p>On the plus side, it has a VERY low profile and can supposedly float like our AAAV7s and LAVs but ONLY in calm water (when the moon is aligned with Venus, etc).</p>
<p>I will also back up that the 14th is one of Iraq&#8217;s newest divisions.  I do not know why the 9th Mech was not sent in, though it may be deployed along the border or otherwise unavailable.    </p>
<p>I am not surprised the media reports the same vehicle as a new kill using different angles.  As I have said before, they did this many times reporting IEDs and other attacks.  One was the Crude oil fired power plant and neighboring refinery south of the IZ which CNN knew was a power plant/refinery and still reported it as a &#8220;massive attack&#8221; on the IZ in April 2007.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert in BA</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/04/01/the-cease-fire/#comment-33614</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert in BA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 02:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=4298#comment-33614</guid>
		<description>One things for sure:
The surge certainly hasn&#039;t worked at all.  Probably made things worse, rather than better.
The web address for apologies is :www.moveon.org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One things for sure:<br />
The surge certainly hasn&#8217;t worked at all.  Probably made things worse, rather than better.<br />
The web address for apologies is :www.moveon.org</p>
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		<title>By: Cecil Turner</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/04/01/the-cease-fire/#comment-33603</link>
		<dc:creator>Cecil Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 01:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=4298#comment-33603</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It is a BMP1 and it normally has a 73mm gun in a small turret.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Good point, there are &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Iraq/ss/events/iraq/082701iraqplane/s:/ap/20080327/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq#photoViewer=/080402/photos_wl/2008_04_01t065702_450x308_us_iraq&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;other photos&lt;/a&gt; available (though it&#039;s apparently been moved), and concur it&#039;s a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/bmp-1-pics.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;BMP-1&lt;/a&gt; (and the turret, such as it is--does appear to be missing from that angle--note apparent hole in hull). 

Still, even a casual glance at the first crappy photo was enough to tell it was an APC of some sort.  And a small winge, it&#039;s probably okay to call a &lt;a href=&quot;http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/bmp-3.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;BMP-3&lt;/a&gt; a hybrid--and a &lt;a href=&quot;http://ftp.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/pt-76.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;PT-76&lt;/a&gt; is classified as a &quot;light tank&quot; (though a Bradley outweighs either), but don&#039;t think I can buy that in reference to a BMP-1.  (Among other things, because the 73mm gun shoots the same round as an RPG-7.)  But thanks for the pointer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It is a BMP1 and it normally has a 73mm gun in a small turret.</p></blockquote>
<p>Good point, there are <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Iraq/ss/events/iraq/082701iraqplane/s:/ap/20080327/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq#photoViewer=/080402/photos_wl/2008_04_01t065702_450x308_us_iraq" rel="nofollow">other photos</a> available (though it&#8217;s apparently been moved), and concur it&#8217;s a <a href="http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/bmp-1-pics.htm" rel="nofollow">BMP-1</a> (and the turret, such as it is&#8211;does appear to be missing from that angle&#8211;note apparent hole in hull). </p>
<p>Still, even a casual glance at the first crappy photo was enough to tell it was an APC of some sort.  And a small winge, it&#8217;s probably okay to call a <a href="http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/bmp-3.htm" rel="nofollow">BMP-3</a> a hybrid&#8211;and a <a href="http://ftp.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/pt-76.htm" rel="nofollow">PT-76</a> is classified as a &#8220;light tank&#8221; (though a Bradley outweighs either), but don&#8217;t think I can buy that in reference to a BMP-1.  (Among other things, because the 73mm gun shoots the same round as an RPG-7.)  But thanks for the pointer.</p>
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		<title>By: MataHarley</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/04/01/the-cease-fire/#comment-33584</link>
		<dc:creator>MataHarley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 23:18:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=4298#comment-33584</guid>
		<description>Thanks Doug.... all I can say is:  &quot;space... the final frontier&quot;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Doug&#8230;. all I can say is:  &#8220;space&#8230; the final frontier&#8221;!</p>
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		<title>By: john Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/04/01/the-cease-fire/#comment-33583</link>
		<dc:creator>john Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 23:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=4298#comment-33583</guid>
		<description>On Sunday CIA Director Hayden said that 70% of Basra was under the control of militias and gangs http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/13824a98-ff86-11dc-b556-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On Sunday CIA Director Hayden said that 70% of Basra was under the control of militias and gangs <a href="http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/13824a98-ff86-11dc-b556-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/13824a98-ff86-11dc-b556-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1</a></p>
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		<title>By: doug</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/04/01/the-cease-fire/#comment-33581</link>
		<dc:creator>doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 22:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=4298#comment-33581</guid>
		<description>Mike was wondering about the Iranian source, not the Iraqi source. 

Both sources above can be supported by multiple western media sources.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike was wondering about the Iranian source, not the Iraqi source. </p>
<p>Both sources above can be supported by multiple western media sources.</p>
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		<title>By: MataHarley</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/04/01/the-cease-fire/#comment-33564</link>
		<dc:creator>MataHarley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 21:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=4298#comment-33564</guid>
		<description>Mike&#039;s America, I was wondering the source of  Azzaman too, so I researched it yesterday.  It is  one of the widest read Iraqi paper chains in the country. Their online version is, of course, different from their  local print versions.  To say that they are anti-American in their editorials is an understatement.

According to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/jan/26/pressandpublishing.media&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;a Guardian article, &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/a&gt; Saad Al-Bazzaz (owner of not only Azzman papers,  but Iraq&#039;s first private satellite TV station) was accused of using Saudi money to start the venture, and to use it as a propaganda machine.  That was early 2005... don&#039;t know what came of the lawsuit.

One of their journalists was kidnapped and executed back in 2007.  I suspect their reporter base can be diverse, for I don&#039;t see the value in executing  media who support the militant&#039;s cause.   

al-Bazzaz was the head of Saddam&#039;s national news agency,  state TV and radio networks.  He left in 1992 after disagreeing with Saddam&#039;s Kuwait invasion, and became a British citizen, living in London.  Still there, I believe.  

After Saddam&#039;s removal by US coalition in 2003, he moved the operation  back to Baghdad.  Thus it&#039;s ironic  that is was US action that allows the paper&#039;s free speech, and they use it to promote anti-American scribblings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike&#8217;s America, I was wondering the source of  Azzaman too, so I researched it yesterday.  It is  one of the widest read Iraqi paper chains in the country. Their online version is, of course, different from their  local print versions.  To say that they are anti-American in their editorials is an understatement.</p>
<p>According to <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/jan/26/pressandpublishing.media" rel="nofollow"><b>a Guardian article, </b></a> Saad Al-Bazzaz (owner of not only Azzman papers,  but Iraq&#8217;s first private satellite TV station) was accused of using Saudi money to start the venture, and to use it as a propaganda machine.  That was early 2005&#8230; don&#8217;t know what came of the lawsuit.</p>
<p>One of their journalists was kidnapped and executed back in 2007.  I suspect their reporter base can be diverse, for I don&#8217;t see the value in executing  media who support the militant&#8217;s cause.   </p>
<p>al-Bazzaz was the head of Saddam&#8217;s national news agency,  state TV and radio networks.  He left in 1992 after disagreeing with Saddam&#8217;s Kuwait invasion, and became a British citizen, living in London.  Still there, I believe.  </p>
<p>After Saddam&#8217;s removal by US coalition in 2003, he moved the operation  back to Baghdad.  Thus it&#8217;s ironic  that is was US action that allows the paper&#8217;s free speech, and they use it to promote anti-American scribblings.</p>
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		<title>By: DJ Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/04/01/the-cease-fire/#comment-33550</link>
		<dc:creator>DJ Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 20:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=4298#comment-33550</guid>
		<description>Note:  When you hear BS about the IA 14th Div in Basrah being one of Iraq&#039;s best, remember the source.  I first saw that flagrant lie on CBS&#039; webpage.

-  The 14th&#039;s opening cerimony was 4 months ago.  HQ components ment for the 12th were sent to Basrah last fall to accelerate its formation.  Originally it was not due to stand up until Jun08.
-  The 14th Div has the distinction of being the youngest and greenest IA Division.
-  The 14th hasn&#039;t even got its fourth line brigade (due Jun) or logistics components yet (late-summer).
-  The 14th got its third line brigade fresh from training.  Graduated the training on 18 Feb 2008.
-  The 14th&#039;s second line brigade is the former 5-10 which was stood up May07 and its cadre came from the corrupt 1-10 Brigade.  It is not trusted by its own CO.
-  The 14th&#039;s only experienced component is its first brigade.  The former 3-8 Brigade from Wassit was redesignated/transfered in and the corrupt 1-10 was transfered out...

This is a still forming new division.  Not the cream of the crop.  They have done quite well for their first major operation...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note:  When you hear BS about the IA 14th Div in Basrah being one of Iraq&#8217;s best, remember the source.  I first saw that flagrant lie on CBS&#8217; webpage.</p>
<p>-  The 14th&#8217;s opening cerimony was 4 months ago.  HQ components ment for the 12th were sent to Basrah last fall to accelerate its formation.  Originally it was not due to stand up until Jun08.<br />
-  The 14th Div has the distinction of being the youngest and greenest IA Division.<br />
-  The 14th hasn&#8217;t even got its fourth line brigade (due Jun) or logistics components yet (late-summer).<br />
-  The 14th got its third line brigade fresh from training.  Graduated the training on 18 Feb 2008.<br />
-  The 14th&#8217;s second line brigade is the former 5-10 which was stood up May07 and its cadre came from the corrupt 1-10 Brigade.  It is not trusted by its own CO.<br />
-  The 14th&#8217;s only experienced component is its first brigade.  The former 3-8 Brigade from Wassit was redesignated/transfered in and the corrupt 1-10 was transfered out&#8230;</p>
<p>This is a still forming new division.  Not the cream of the crop.  They have done quite well for their first major operation&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: DJ Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/04/01/the-cease-fire/#comment-33541</link>
		<dc:creator>DJ Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 19:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=4298#comment-33541</guid>
		<description>It is a BMP1 and it normally has a 73mm gun in a small turret.
I have now seen that same BMP photographed from 8 different angles on 4 different days as if it is new.
Same thing is happening with the DZIK3 that they captured, then burned and the burned HMMWV.  Multiple photos on different days at different angles to give the impression of many vehicles destroyed.

(Note:  BTR80/94/3E1 used by ISF are eight-wheeled APCs, not tracks.)

A BMP is a hybred.  A light tank&#039;s weapons on an APC hull.  Little armor.

An RPG is quite capable of taking out a BMP just like it can take out a Bradley too...

The reason the turret is gone is the ready ammo cooked off and blew the turret.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is a BMP1 and it normally has a 73mm gun in a small turret.<br />
I have now seen that same BMP photographed from 8 different angles on 4 different days as if it is new.<br />
Same thing is happening with the DZIK3 that they captured, then burned and the burned HMMWV.  Multiple photos on different days at different angles to give the impression of many vehicles destroyed.</p>
<p>(Note:  BTR80/94/3E1 used by ISF are eight-wheeled APCs, not tracks.)</p>
<p>A BMP is a hybred.  A light tank&#8217;s weapons on an APC hull.  Little armor.</p>
<p>An RPG is quite capable of taking out a BMP just like it can take out a Bradley too&#8230;</p>
<p>The reason the turret is gone is the ready ammo cooked off and blew the turret.</p>
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		<title>By: Philadelphia Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/04/01/the-cease-fire/#comment-33431</link>
		<dc:creator>Philadelphia Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 13:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=4298#comment-33431</guid>
		<description>Re: &quot;Doug: citing Iranian state media as a source????&quot;

If you want to know what the Iraqi central government will do next, it is likely a very good source.





.




(Just a side question.  What is the average delay time for a post to be &quot;awaiting moderation&quot;.  I&#039;ve noticed that my posts have been in such a limbo state for days....  Or is this just another Conservative tactic?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: &#8220;Doug: citing Iranian state media as a source????&#8221;</p>
<p>If you want to know what the Iraqi central government will do next, it is likely a very good source.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>(Just a side question.  What is the average delay time for a post to be &#8220;awaiting moderation&#8221;.  I&#8217;ve noticed that my posts have been in such a limbo state for days&#8230;.  Or is this just another Conservative tactic?)</p>
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		<title>By: Mike's America</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/04/01/the-cease-fire/#comment-33309</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike's America</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 03:29:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=4298#comment-33309</guid>
		<description>Doug: I don&#039;t hang out with the &quot;three monkeys&quot; Do you?

&lt;img src=&quot;http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j191/mikesamerica/ClintonSeeNoEvilMonkeys.jpg&quot;/&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug: I don&#8217;t hang out with the &#8220;three monkeys&#8221; Do you?</p>
<p><img src="http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j191/mikesamerica/ClintonSeeNoEvilMonkeys.jpg"/></p>
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	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
