But I appreciate your frustration with trying to implement change, and being frustrated by organizational inertia (contrary to many comments, the corporate world can be a bureaucratic as any governmental entity, it’s just that in their case the situations do not make headlines).

No Steve, THIS Conservative’s position (as opposed to your fantasy ‘conservative’) is that we need HUGE reforms in the GS hiring and retention system along with real reduction in government size and scope (yes, in case you missed it, I did not give president Bush one of your idiotic "passes" for this issue).  Reforms which are not going to happen under the government workers union’s watch even though some were tried.  There is a joke about GS employees, they are like a broken shotgun.  They do not work and you cannot fire them.

Now, I work with quite a few great GS workers who do everything possible for us to succeed.  However, the poor ones, and the powerful ones who are entrenched in their fiefdoms are impossible to displace and they know we (military members placed in charge of them) will be gone to a new assignment in 18 mo to 2 years.  These GS workers will still be right where they were before.  This is especially true in the higher level GS/SES levels. 

The same holds true for ANY Presidential administration.  Cabinet officials/appointees tend to last one term or less and any changes they make can be undone by the career workers.  This is becoming more and more of an issue and will continue to be one, no matter who is elected until serious reform is forced upon the government.  As I said, I do not see that reform coming from any candidate or political direction (Center-right or Left) any time soon.

So the Conservative position is that "no one is accountable for anything negative consequences, ever".  Everyone can do anythihing and no one is responsible since "the systemn" is around forever.

Of course, when it comes time to hand out credit, Conservatives have been very quick to give themselves high fives every chance they get.

Does that mean that "Morning in America" was really due to Carter Administration holdovers?  (Conservative answer:  "Of course not, SaintRonald was the perfect president and everything he did was great and he never did any wrong").  The "holdover" story only applies to bad things that happen during Republican Administrations.

I state that because the very first thing I can count on seeing in the response to any post about a blunder made by the Bush Administratio starts with, "well… it all began during the Clinton Administration…" and never gets beyond that.

.

And, BTW, thank you for the apology for showing your anger.  I took no offense whatsoever.  While it may appear illogical, being told that I am full of horse manure is not offensive (to me), as opposed to the childish name calling ("go out and play..") type comments that seek to discredit anything I say merely through the use of schoolyard taunts.

There may be no logic to my making those distinctions, but I do.

No offense taken.  Have a great day, though.

Civil employees and many Pentagon employees are inherited from previous admins.  I couldn’t say that the Bush admin inherited employees from Bush 41. There was 8 years inbetween.  Thus the Clinton admin inclusion.

However, had the previous admin been a Bush 42 instead of 41, my comment would have been the same.

It’s more than plausible that the things that you want to blame Bush for actually eminate from civil employees and military personnel that could have been there for years, and beyond the 15 years it would take to be hired under a different POTUS.

And none in the previous admins (so you, Mr. Hypersensitive, don’t feel I’m singling out Clinton) have been tested for the magnitude of natural disasters (i.e. FEMA/Katrina) or wars (i.e. those experienced in urban guerrilla warfare in Iraq) that we are facing now.

Sometimes a CIC just doesn’t know who’s up to the task until the task hits the fan.

However the particular admin POTUS was not my point.  My point is, you have a tendancy to think if your next door neighbor farts, it’s Bush’s fault. Or, as ChrisG says, much more distinctly,  on the passport thread:

This was entirely predictable. Once again Steve absurdly blames the Bush Administration for all of his projected woes. President Bush does not hire contractors, general employees, or virtually anyone else, for the State Dept, DoD, or any other government organization. No President does. They select the few people at the top who are there a few years. The organization is run by career GS workers.

MataHarley said: "Phillie Steve, there was not a complete turnover of military employees inherited by the Bush admin from the Clinton admin."

Phillie Steve responded: Of course.  Once again we hear the official Conservative theme song: "It’s not George Bush’s fault for anything.  It’s all Bill Clinton’s Fault".  Sung by Conservatives at evey opportunity, every time, every where.

Steve,  this comment is so full of horse manure and personally insulting that I hardly know where to begin.  Fact is, civil servant and Pentagon officials span *many* administrations – from Clinton’s AND previous admins.   And those inherited may be old school in warfare, and not adept at planning and managing an urban guerilla war against a stateless thugs who call no nation home.  

I have a problem with many government officials, and most especially the GOP in Congress.  I have a problem with many of Bush’s appointees.  And I have many problems with his domestic policies.  Fact is, I’m not a fan of Congress or our government in general.  It’s become so large and cumbersome, it’s nigh impossible to manage.  And both sides of the aisle do nothing but make it more expansive.

Yet if one disagrees with you, it’s the conservative label insults and clump groups together with extreme personal assault. Let me throw one back at you. You are the iconic mouthpiece for the liberal progressive movement in this country. Tolerance, my ass. You demonstrate the most vile aspects of intolerance while waving the “tolerance” banner.

So don’t be putting words in my mouth.  Most especially *yours*!  My thought patterns are not so partisan and Neanderthal.

Of course.  Once again we hear the official Conservative theme song: "It’s not George Bush’s fault for anything.  It’s all Bill Clinton’s Fault".  Sung by Conservatives at evey opportunity, every time, every where.

Will there ever arrive a day when Conservatives actually hold their own accountable?  Of course not.  Republican Party rules forbid it.

Re: “I think AG was a disaster for us.”

Agreed 100% It will take a generation before American can repair this damage, if ever. All the “punishment” of the lower level troops who were in the pictures will not undo those images, now being shown in Saudi Arabian sponsored fundamentalist schools to children throught the Islamic world. Donald Rumsfeld should have been fired onthe spot, Frog Marched out the door and pilloried in the town swauare, and perhaps we might have recovered. Instead he was extolled by the Vice President as the “Greatest Secretary of Defense in History”. That compounded the damage. William F. Buckley was correct when he stated that, in a Parlimentary sytem, even George W.Bush would have (in his opinion) resigned over something like that.

That is why I am so vehement about the US publicly denouncig the use of troture, despite the claims of “success’ by the “24″ fans. By doing so, we are declaring to the world, “and we’ll do it again”.

Prior to the scandal,

“More than half of Iraqis in a survey done primarily in March and early April said their nation will be better off in five years because of the U.S.-led invasion, but 55 percent said they had an unfavorable opinion of the United States.”
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/29/iraq.poll/

As the CNN poll shows just over 50% was generally the norm for almost all things Iraqi and American/British. Yet after the AG scandal there was a substantial change:

92% felt the CPA were occupiers
85% wanted the CPA to leave before or after the coming elections
79% of the violence has increased because people have lost faith in the CPA
71% were surprised by AG
54% said all Americans behave as the Abu. G. guards
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/poll/2004/06iiacss.pdf

20-40 percent increases in how we are negatively perceived. These numbers have generally remained constant since the AG scandal.

To ‘win hearts and minds’ with those numbers you essentially have to let the older generation die off. The reality was that the AG scandal tore us up in Iraq and then internationally:
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/10/20/Columns/Poll__World_s_opinion.shtml

Then there was other consequences:
American troop casualties spike:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Monthly_Troop_Deaths_in_Iraq.jpg

Even Bush himself says, just after the AG scandal (he doesn’t mention the scandal — just the concurring dates): “Given the recent increase in violence, we will maintain our troop level at the current 138,000 as long as necessary.”`
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/05/24/bush.iraq/index.html

Note, also, the DoD starts their increase in violence trend (see chart) concurrently with the AG scandal; and it remains generally constant for over a year, until the mosque bombing and then goes much higher:
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/06/pentagon_iraq_surge_not_working_/

In the Arab world views of America hit new lows after the scandal:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0902/p06s02-wome.html?s=hns

Consequently, civil war and ethnic cleansing, CPA attacks, kidnapping, violence of all kinds and shapes edged up . Did the AG scandal cause this? I don’t know. No one can know that. However, the pattern is there, but causality is tricky. However, I think it is not unreasonable to argue that we gravely lost Iraqi respect and trust in the AG scandal and consequently lost command and control of the country after the event– and we haven’t gotten their confidence back– they think we are foreign occupiers. It was a huge military failure and effected our mission gravely.
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There are certainly enemy gains related to AG that are propaganda.

“Isn’t any enemy gain related to the AG [scandal] a propaganda defeat” for us? I find this question to be very complex and too loose to be unpacked carefully, so until I can understand it clearly i can’t comment.

Just as FEMA, not stocked from top to bottom with Bush appointees, had never been tested to the degree of Katrina. It was a mess before Katrina, but who knew since they never had to rise to such an occasion.