The Weak Democrats & Their Message

That Gallup poll Rove mentions seems out of step with other recent polls. Even the Pew poll that many hawkish blogs cited over a week ago had “47% of Americans want[ing] to keep the troops in Iraq, as opposed to 49% who prefer to begin withdrawing them.”
http://www.redstate.com/blogs/gideon1789/2008/feb/28/could_47_of_americans_want_to_persevere_in_iraq

Then you have these:

“The USA Today/Gallup poll says that only 35% of Americans consider staying in Iraq to be the best course of action for the government in Washington with 60% of those polled preferring a set timetable for withdrawal.”
http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=69431

“Nearly six in 10 of those polled want to see U.S. troops leave Iraq either immediately or within a year. In addition, more people would prefer Congress to run U.S. policy in Iraq than President Bush.”
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/13/iraq.poll/index.html

“A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 59% of Americans would like to see U.S. troops brought home from Iraq within a year. That number is down four points from two weeks ago and two points from four weeks ago. Over the last twenty-three weeks, the number wanting troops home within a year has ranged from a low of 57% to a high of 64%.”
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/the_war_in_iraq/iraq_troop_withdrawal

“Many adults in the United States want the coalition effort to come to an end, according to a poll by Hart/McInturff released by the Wall Street Journal and NBC News. 55 per cent of respondents think the most responsible thing the U.S. can do is find a way to withdraw most of its troops from Iraq by the beginning of 2009.”
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/most_americans_deem_iraq_withdrawal_responsible/

Lastly, the Gallup poll did not define for those polled what was meant by ‘having an obligation to establish a level security and stability before withdrawing all troops from Iraq. Further, Obama, nor Clinton, want to withdrawal “all” troops. Finally, I’d like to see that Gallup poll confirmed with some other polls to be sure up its numbers.

House Democrats want personal injury lawyers to be able to sue telecommunications companies for having the audacity to cooperate with the government in monitoring terrorist communications after 9/11.

I’m not a House Democrat. I want the lawyers to be able to sue the telecommunications companies because they broke the law.

Actually, they abetted the Administration when it bypassed FISA to engage in warrantless wiretapping.

Thank you Machiavelli for your explanation. It is the convoluted mass that the democratic party has become, that caused me to change sides. When you can no longer support the majority of opinions your party stands for, you leave. I stayed far too long.

And that reason is stated by many people who have done likewise.

Redundant or not, it is the truth.

Chris:

Blah blah typical Righty tactic blah “bi-partisan” red herring blah. If you’re right, they’ll toss the cases out of court. Then you’ll win! I hope you’ll be just as happy if a President Hillary or a President Barack use such a win as a precedent for more warrantless wiretaps. Let’s hear it for the Unitary Executive, baby!

Hah! I used to read JustOneMinute several times a day, still check in occasionally, but, switched to FloppingAces. FA moves a bit faster with a variety of topics and the research provided by the FA crew can’t be beat. I appreciate the dedication, the hard work, the research, the articulate debate and much more. Thanks to all!

Rove will find you, if folks like MataHarley, Mark E, etc. did, so will he. Been meaning to compliment their outstanding contributions as well as other posters in the comment section, but don’t want to chase away FA’s lib friends with too much gushing.

Thank you Missy for your very kind words.

You also brought up a very important point that I would like to amplify: The authors here at Flopping Aces, led by our fearless leader Curt, are just the cooks slaving away in the rhetorical and intellectual kitchen. It is the very fine and substantive comments from so many others like yourself that add the flavor and spice to this daily stew of ideas, commentary and debate.

So, don’t thank us! Thanks to you and your fellow readers and comment contributors this daily blog experience is so much more rewardable for all.

Well, just for Missy, I’m gonna do some serious research today and put together another good post or two. My next one’s for you Missy! Thanks for swelling my head and kicking my research initiative into overdrive. Next stop…nutroots naildown!

MataHarley said:

“My point? Polls and opinions are as fleeting and changable as the wind… merely a reflection of the latest media headlines.”

Granted, there’s truth to that. But here, I think what we’re discussing here has a larger scale and volume. Attitudes on the Iraq war are quite solid and have a deeper gravity in the mindset of Americans than, say, present polling data on who will win the presidency. The two polls are different not in degree, but kind; one, measures attitudes from the past (tied to evidence–not just headlines), the other, speculations about the future (usually tied to wishes). Certainly, the Iraq war has more of a public familiarity, than momentary projections on political themes.
To differ here is to ignore the public cost of the war.

I’d argue the publics’ perception of the Iraq war is grasped much more clearly than a “fluctuation”. I believe Cheney was either ignorant or deceptive in stating, “I think you cannot be blown off course by the fluctuations in the public opinion polls.”

From a synoptic analysis of the polling data I believe one finds _years_ of consistent public erosion of confidence in the Administrations’ management of the Iraq war:

According to a recent CNN poll Americans have steadily lost confidence in the Iraq war after the 2003 invasion. CNN poll, …just 36 percent of the American public believes that “the situation in Iraq was worth going to war over — down from 68 percent in March 2003, when the war began.”

In 2005 the public highly questioned the invasion and was basically spit on an Iraq withdrawal in one or more fashion:
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/06/27/iraq.poll/

By 2006 more than half of Americans wanted a withdrawal plan for Iraq:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-06-26-iraq-poll_x.htm

Last month as Cheney declared, “The American people will not support a policy of retreat.” … I noted above, in post 2, there is a near consistent majority in all polls that support some kind of withdrawal. This linkage from 2006 to the present has held fast.

Additionally, this downward trend in confidence in the Bush Administration’s management of the war is reflected historically in international support as well; it has continued to fall in most countries and generally reflects US attitudes:

The global view of the United States’ role in world affairs has significantly deteriorated over the last year according to a BBC World Service poll of more than 26,000 people across 25 different countries.

As the United States government prepares to send a further 21,500 troops to Iraq, the survey reveals that three in four (73%) disapprove of how the US government has dealt with Iraq.

The poll shows that in the 18 countries that were previously polled, the average percentage saying that the United States is having a mainly positive influence in the world has dropped seven points from a year ago—from 36 percent to 29 percent—after having already dropped four points the year before. Across all 25 countries polled, one citizen in two (49%) now says the US is playing a mainly negative role in the world.

Over two-thirds (68%) believe the US military presence in the Middle East provokes more conflict than it prevents and only 17 percent believes US troops there are a stabilizing force.

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/international_security_bt/306.php?lb=btvoc&pnt=306&nid=&id=

A Pew poll on world opinion came to the same conclusions:

Favorable opinions of the U.S. have, in general, dropped steadily from 1999/2000 to 2006 in most of the 15 countries surveyed by the Pew Global Attitudes Project. In Britain, some 56 percent of people had a favorable view of the U.S. in 2006, compared to 83 percent at the turn of the century. In 2006, favorable opinions dropped significantly in predominately Muslim countries, ranging from 12 percent in Turkey to 30 percent in Indonesia and Egypt.

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/314/opinions-of-us.html

Confidence in US foreign policy, both domestically and internationally, has taken only one path since over the past years: downward; confidence in the White House has eroded consistently and is preserved over time. Evidence of this was the 06 congressional election; …that was hardly a fluctuation (–as much as Rove argued he knew had the “real” numbers on the public pulse).

And lest we not forget –as is all too common the case here in the US– the outstanding theme in the two Iraqi polls we discussed, here at Aces last week, found only only 20% of Iraqis have any confidence in our occupation; meaning, that despite all of our good will, Iraqis have the least amount of confidence in US forces and it remains the single organization (out of six, including the militias) that has the largest credibility gap.

Therefore, for years– not days, weeks in a polling blimp –there has been a concrete domestic, international and Iraqi erosion in the confidence of the Bush Administrations’ handling of the war and a majority or more want a withdrawal: the magnitude of this issue is so weighted deeply in Americans it also coincides with the erosion in Bush’s own approval numbers falling along side his handling of Iraq.

These polls are long-standing in the US and world community and are not sandbars on a riverbank; they are about as near bedrock as one can get from polling as they span years and have been undergirded by the 06 election.

Speaking of polls you so love, Mr. Doug… here’s one guaranteed to give most of us a smile. I had to blog on this myself today to release pent up steam from my ears….

It’s a poll that says 81% of Americans think our elected officials should listen to polls prior to major decisions. (Like they don’t already hear poll results in our news daily?)

Of course that 81% translates to 780 out of 975 responders. (no profile of the responders provided) That’s 780 people I can safely say do not speak for me, nor should their poll voices be granted the power to influence domestic and foreign policies.

You’ll find links to the actual poll, and both the UPI story, and ABC story that accompanies the poll, in my post. Point of contention is the Cheney quote you abbreviated above… as did the ABC accompanying story. Both you and ABC bypassed his suggestion that had polls been conducted during the contentious period of the Civil War, it may never have been waged.

Then again, therein lies the danger of allowing poll responders, who only read media cryptic half-truths instead of source material, so much influence over America’s policies.