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	<title>Comments on: Not these troops - Not this war - Not this time.</title>
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	<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/10/not-these-troops-not-this-war-not-this-time/</link>
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	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 11:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: ChrisG</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/10/not-these-troops-not-this-war-not-this-time/#comment-25486</link>
		<dc:creator>ChrisG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/10/not-these-troops-not-this-war-not-this-time/#comment-25486</guid>
		<description>Steve,

You missed the second part:

&lt;blockquote&gt;If some of these “winter soldiers” were officers/NCOs and stated they saw/allowed such actions and did not report/prosecute it when in command, then they are also guilty of violating UCMJ.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Bottom line in the Military.  If one is in command, one is responsible no matter what.  If witnessing an illegal act, one is responsible, reguardless of rank, to report it.  IF there were acts witnessed by these people while on active duty and they did not move to either stop it or report it, then they are guilty of violating UCMJ also.

If they wish to accuse others of wrongdoing, then the freedom of the accused is to have their case stated with both accuser and defendent in sworn testomony.  Unless you do not feel the defendents in this case are free to legally rebuke slander.

Or are "conservatives" (which encompasses a majority of the military) not allowed such rights?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>You missed the second part:</p>
<blockquote><p>If some of these “winter soldiers” were officers/NCOs and stated they saw/allowed such actions and did not report/prosecute it when in command, then they are also guilty of violating UCMJ.</p></blockquote>
<p>Bottom line in the Military.  If one is in command, one is responsible no matter what.  If witnessing an illegal act, one is responsible, reguardless of rank, to report it.  IF there were acts witnessed by these people while on active duty and they did not move to either stop it or report it, then they are guilty of violating UCMJ also.</p>
<p>If they wish to accuse others of wrongdoing, then the freedom of the accused is to have their case stated with both accuser and defendent in sworn testomony.  Unless you do not feel the defendents in this case are free to legally rebuke slander.</p>
<p>Or are &#8220;conservatives&#8221; (which encompasses a majority of the military) not allowed such rights?</p>
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		<title>By: Philadelphia Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/10/not-these-troops-not-this-war-not-this-time/#comment-25482</link>
		<dc:creator>Philadelphia Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 18:45:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/10/not-these-troops-not-this-war-not-this-time/#comment-25482</guid>
		<description>Re: "Like the lies of the last “winter soldier” idiocy, if these people have charges to make, then they need to make them under sworn depositions and file official charges."

Then you do believe that they do not have the freedom to speak their mind.


Re: "Steve, you’re not worthy"

Worthy of what?  To speak my mind?  Are my words to be the subject of Conservative editing prior to my being allowed to speak (write) them in public?  Is that the "freedom" that Conservatives wish to impose on the United States?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: &#8220;Like the lies of the last “winter soldier” idiocy, if these people have charges to make, then they need to make them under sworn depositions and file official charges.&#8221;</p>
<p>Then you do believe that they do not have the freedom to speak their mind.</p>
<p>Re: &#8220;Steve, you’re not worthy&#8221;</p>
<p>Worthy of what?  To speak my mind?  Are my words to be the subject of Conservative editing prior to my being allowed to speak (write) them in public?  Is that the &#8220;freedom&#8221; that Conservatives wish to impose on the United States?</p>
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		<title>By: Flopping Aces » Blog Archive &#187; &#187; John Kerry &#38; Winter Soldiers II</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/10/not-these-troops-not-this-war-not-this-time/#comment-25331</link>
		<dc:creator>Flopping Aces » Blog Archive &#187; &#187; John Kerry &#38; Winter Soldiers II</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 04:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/10/not-these-troops-not-this-war-not-this-time/#comment-25331</guid>
		<description>[...] in time for the Winter Soldiers II which Skye has written about comes this production in which Jason Mattera from Hot Air confronts John Kerry about his [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in time for the Winter Soldiers II which Skye has written about comes this production in which Jason Mattera from Hot Air confronts John Kerry about his [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Elyse</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/10/not-these-troops-not-this-war-not-this-time/#comment-24899</link>
		<dc:creator>Elyse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 00:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/10/not-these-troops-not-this-war-not-this-time/#comment-24899</guid>
		<description>We at Eagles Up are proud to lead Americans against lies, slander and smear.  And we are proud to stand with our partners Move America Forward, Rolling Thunder, GoE and others to be certain that if wrongs have been done, they are documented, sworn to and testified to under OATH as well as any consequences accepted for prior misdeeds.  

Think Title 18 USC Chapter 212 - Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We at Eagles Up are proud to lead Americans against lies, slander and smear.  And we are proud to stand with our partners Move America Forward, Rolling Thunder, GoE and others to be certain that if wrongs have been done, they are documented, sworn to and testified to under OATH as well as any consequences accepted for prior misdeeds.  </p>
<p>Think Title 18 USC Chapter 212 - Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction.</p>
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		<title>By: N. O'Brain</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/10/not-these-troops-not-this-war-not-this-time/#comment-24880</link>
		<dc:creator>N. O'Brain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 23:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/10/not-these-troops-not-this-war-not-this-time/#comment-24880</guid>
		<description>"I take it you believe that these Americans should only have the right to express their opinion if it is an opinion of which Conservatives approve?"

You are free to lie, slander and smear.

And we are free tot tell the truth.

We win.

You lose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I take it you believe that these Americans should only have the right to express their opinion if it is an opinion of which Conservatives approve?&#8221;</p>
<p>You are free to lie, slander and smear.</p>
<p>And we are free tot tell the truth.</p>
<p>We win.</p>
<p>You lose.</p>
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		<title>By: Skye</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/10/not-these-troops-not-this-war-not-this-time/#comment-24864</link>
		<dc:creator>Skye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/10/not-these-troops-not-this-war-not-this-time/#comment-24864</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Steve, you’re not worthy. And neither are the nobodies who slander our troops.&lt;/i&gt;

Not to mention an embarrassement to Philadelphia.  The city already has an image problem without Steve adding to the mix.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Steve, you’re not worthy. And neither are the nobodies who slander our troops.</i></p>
<p>Not to mention an embarrassement to Philadelphia.  The city already has an image problem without Steve adding to the mix.</p>
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		<title>By: Skye</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/10/not-these-troops-not-this-war-not-this-time/#comment-24860</link>
		<dc:creator>Skye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/10/not-these-troops-not-this-war-not-this-time/#comment-24860</guid>
		<description>IVAW's name is misleading and has often mislead the media to call the organization one made up of veterans of Iraq. Service in either OIF or OEF is NOT a requirement for membership. Of the 800 or so members claimed by IVAW somewhere between 25% and as many as 50% have not served in either theatre, while over 1.7 millions Americans have so served.

Military investigators of the 1971 WSI found almost all the charges made then to be unsubstantiated or were repudiated by the claimants, yet no action was taken against anyone for false "testimony".  On the various CID reports that I have read, not one of the original WS would give names - why is that?  If they truly were after justice, then bring to just those that committed these allleged war crimes.  I strongly suspect that if they gave up a name and the individual was made aware of this alleged complaint - the 1971 WSI would have become the 1971 Lawsuit-palooza!


Not only are the IVAW copying the WSI - they are attempting to recreate the VVAW 'A US Infantry Company Just Came Through Here" Campaign.  However, unlike in 1971, were the unwashed VVAW members harrassed the public with impunity - this generation of VVAW wannbe's (IVAW) are getting their a## arrested with this stunt:

&lt;i&gt;Tuscaloosa, AL - Four protesters from Students for a Democratic Society (SDS)
and Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) were arrested here, Feb. 29, at the
University of Alabama for performing a mock raid meant to demonstrate the
effects of the U.S. occupation on Iraqi civilians.&lt;/i&gt;

http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/pipermail/lbo-talk/Week-of-Mon-20080303/004607.html


A bellweather of things to come for IVAW??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IVAW&#8217;s name is misleading and has often mislead the media to call the organization one made up of veterans of Iraq. Service in either OIF or OEF is NOT a requirement for membership. Of the 800 or so members claimed by IVAW somewhere between 25% and as many as 50% have not served in either theatre, while over 1.7 millions Americans have so served.</p>
<p>Military investigators of the 1971 WSI found almost all the charges made then to be unsubstantiated or were repudiated by the claimants, yet no action was taken against anyone for false &#8220;testimony&#8221;.  On the various CID reports that I have read, not one of the original WS would give names - why is that?  If they truly were after justice, then bring to just those that committed these allleged war crimes.  I strongly suspect that if they gave up a name and the individual was made aware of this alleged complaint - the 1971 WSI would have become the 1971 Lawsuit-palooza!</p>
<p>Not only are the IVAW copying the WSI - they are attempting to recreate the VVAW &#8216;A US Infantry Company Just Came Through Here&#8221; Campaign.  However, unlike in 1971, were the unwashed VVAW members harrassed the public with impunity - this generation of VVAW wannbe&#8217;s (IVAW) are getting their a## arrested with this stunt:</p>
<p><i>Tuscaloosa, AL - Four protesters from Students for a Democratic Society (SDS)<br />
and Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) were arrested here, Feb. 29, at the<br />
University of Alabama for performing a mock raid meant to demonstrate the<br />
effects of the U.S. occupation on Iraqi civilians.</i></p>
<p><a href="http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/pipermail/lbo-talk/Week-of-Mon-20080303/004607.html" rel="nofollow">http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/pipermail/lbo-talk/Week-of-Mon-20080303/004607.html</a></p>
<p>A bellweather of things to come for IVAW??</p>
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		<title>By: Mike's America</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/10/not-these-troops-not-this-war-not-this-time/#comment-24859</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike's America</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/10/not-these-troops-not-this-war-not-this-time/#comment-24859</guid>
		<description>Steve sides with those who have the worst view of American soldiers. Such beliefs stem from a basic liberal self loathing that reminds me of the old Wayne's World mantra: "we're not worthy"

&lt;object width="425" height="355"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VQauQ6f72Zk"&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VQauQ6f72Zk" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;

Steve, you're not worthy. And neither are the nobodies who slander our troops.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve sides with those who have the worst view of American soldiers. Such beliefs stem from a basic liberal self loathing that reminds me of the old Wayne&#8217;s World mantra: &#8220;we&#8217;re not worthy&#8221;</p>
<p><object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VQauQ6f72Zk"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VQauQ6f72Zk" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object></p>
<p>Steve, you&#8217;re not worthy. And neither are the nobodies who slander our troops.</p>
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		<title>By: ChrisG</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/10/not-these-troops-not-this-war-not-this-time/#comment-24682</link>
		<dc:creator>ChrisG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/10/not-these-troops-not-this-war-not-this-time/#comment-24682</guid>
		<description>No Steve,

Like the lies of the last "winter soldier" idiocy, if these people have charges to make, then they need to make them under sworn depositions and file official charges.

If some of these "winter soldiers" were officers/NCOs and stated they saw/allowed such actions and did not report/prosecute it when in command, then they are also guilty of violating UCMJ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No Steve,</p>
<p>Like the lies of the last &#8220;winter soldier&#8221; idiocy, if these people have charges to make, then they need to make them under sworn depositions and file official charges.</p>
<p>If some of these &#8220;winter soldiers&#8221; were officers/NCOs and stated they saw/allowed such actions and did not report/prosecute it when in command, then they are also guilty of violating UCMJ.</p>
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		<title>By: Philadelphia Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/10/not-these-troops-not-this-war-not-this-time/#comment-24673</link>
		<dc:creator>Philadelphia Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:20:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/10/not-these-troops-not-this-war-not-this-time/#comment-24673</guid>
		<description>I take it you believe that these Americans should only have the right to express their opinion if it is an opinion of which Conservatives approve?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I take it you believe that these Americans should only have the right to express their opinion if it is an opinion of which Conservatives approve?</p>
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