Comments on: It’s Out in the Open: Huckabee and McCain Colluding to Deny Romney Victory http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/ Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:46:39 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: ChrisG http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15146 ChrisG Thu, 07 Feb 2008 03:15:31 +0000 http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15146 I think we can let this double post pass Steve. I think we can let this double post pass Steve.

]]> By: Philadelphia Steve http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15144 Philadelphia Steve Thu, 07 Feb 2008 03:06:37 +0000 http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15144 I'll apologize in advance for this double post (and then call it a night, I have to get up early tomorrow). But this has always been one of my favorites: "Men occasionally stumble on the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." Winston Churchill I’ll apologize in advance for this double post (and then call it a night, I have to get up early tomorrow). But this has always been one of my favorites:

“Men occasionally stumble on the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.”
Winston Churchill

]]> By: Philadelphia Steve http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15141 Philadelphia Steve Thu, 07 Feb 2008 03:00:00 +0000 http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15141 Re: "You can lead a horse to water……" ....but you can't make her wear underwear :-) Re: “You can lead a horse to water……” ….but you can’t make her wear underwear :-)

]]> By: Scott http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15107 Scott Thu, 07 Feb 2008 00:06:02 +0000 http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15107 There was no moment in these sixteen years when the three former allies, or even Britain and France with their associates in Europe, could not in the name of the League of Nations and under its moral and international shield have controlled by mere effort of the will of armed strength of Germany. -Winston Churchill, Memoirs of the Second World War It is difficult to find a parallel to the unwisdom of the British and the weakness of the French Governments, who none the less reflected the opinion of their Parliaments in this disastrous period. Nor can the United States escape the censure of history. Absorbed in their own affairs and all the abounding interests, activities, and accidents of a free community, they simply gaped at the vast changes which were taking place in Europe and imagined they were none of their concern. -Winston Churchill, Memoirs of the Second World War By the autumn of 1933 it was plain that neither by precept nor still less by example would the British effort for disarmament succeed. The pacifism of the Labour and Liberal Parties was not effected even by the grave event of the German withdrawl from the League of Nations. Both continued in the name of peace to urge British disarmament, and anyone who differed was called “warmonger” and “scaremonger.” It appeared that their feeling was endorsed by the people, who of course did not understand what was unfolding. -Winston Churchill, Memoirs of the Second World War Until the middle of 1934 control of the events was still largely in the hands of His Majesty’s Government without the risk of war. They could at any time, in concert with France and through the League of Nations, have brought an overwhelming power to bear upon the Hitler Movement, about which Germany was profoundly divided. -Winston Churchill, Memoirs of the Second World War Don’t believe that anyone in the world will hinder me in my decisions [to invade Austria and Czechoslovakia]! Italy? I am quite clear that they are with Mussolini: with Italy I am on the closest of terms. England? England will not lift a finger for Austria…And France? Well, two years ago when we marched into the Rhineland with a handful of battalions [breaking the 1991 Treaty of Versailles]-at that moment I risked a great deal. If France had marched then we should have been forced to withdraw….but for France it is too late! -Adolph Hitler, 1938 Even though large tracts of Europe and many old and famous states have fallen into the grip of the Gestapo and all the odious apparatus of NAZI rule, we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight in the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air; we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing-grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender; and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God’s good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and liberation of the Old. -Winston Churchill, Memoirs of the Second World War There was no moment in these sixteen years when the three former allies, or even Britain and France with their associates in Europe, could not in the name of the League of Nations and under its moral and international shield have controlled by mere effort of the will of armed strength of Germany.
-Winston Churchill, Memoirs of the Second World War

It is difficult to find a parallel to the unwisdom of the British and the weakness of the French Governments, who none the less reflected the opinion of their Parliaments in this disastrous period. Nor can the United States escape the censure of history. Absorbed in their own affairs and all the abounding interests, activities, and accidents of a free community, they simply gaped at the vast changes which were taking place in Europe and imagined they were none of their concern.
-Winston Churchill, Memoirs of the Second World War

By the autumn of 1933 it was plain that neither by precept nor still less by example would the British effort for disarmament succeed. The pacifism of the Labour and Liberal Parties was not effected even by the grave event of the German withdrawl from the League of Nations. Both continued in the name of peace to urge British disarmament, and anyone who differed was called “warmonger” and “scaremonger.” It appeared that their feeling was endorsed by the people, who of course did not understand what was unfolding.
-Winston Churchill, Memoirs of the Second World War

Until the middle of 1934 control of the events was still largely in the hands of His Majesty’s Government without the risk of war. They could at any time, in concert with France and through the League of Nations, have brought an overwhelming power to bear upon the Hitler Movement, about which Germany was profoundly divided.
-Winston Churchill, Memoirs of the Second World War

Don’t believe that anyone in the world will hinder me in my decisions [to invade Austria and Czechoslovakia]! Italy? I am quite clear that they are with Mussolini: with Italy I am on the closest of terms. England? England will not lift a finger for Austria…And France? Well, two years ago when we marched into the Rhineland with a handful of battalions [breaking the 1991 Treaty of Versailles]-at that moment I risked a great deal. If France had marched then we should have been forced to withdraw….but for France it is too late!
-Adolph Hitler, 1938

Even though large tracts of Europe and many old and famous states have fallen into the grip of the Gestapo and all the odious apparatus of NAZI rule, we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight in the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air; we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing-grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender; and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God’s good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and liberation of the Old.
-Winston Churchill, Memoirs of the Second World War

]]> By: ChrisG http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15105 ChrisG Wed, 06 Feb 2008 23:50:46 +0000 http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15105 True... But on the other hand. "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." Sir Winston Churchill http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Sir_Winston_Churchill So thus the paradox. Representative government is the greatest form of governance, but requires the most exertion from the governed. Though, honestly, how difficult is it to look up the party and candidate platforms and positions these days? I just wish more people would expend the effort. But then it is not as much fun as hearing about some celebrity's latest run-in with the law. You can lead a horse to water...... True… But on the other hand. “It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”
Sir Winston Churchill

http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Sir_Winston_Churchill

So thus the paradox. Representative government is the greatest form of governance, but requires the most exertion from the governed. Though, honestly, how difficult is it to look up the party and candidate platforms and positions these days? I just wish more people would expend the effort.

But then it is not as much fun as hearing about some celebrity’s latest run-in with the law. You can lead a horse to water……

]]> By: Philadelphia Steve http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15101 Philadelphia Steve Wed, 06 Feb 2008 23:06:52 +0000 http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15101 "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." Winston Churchill http://www.coolquotes.com/quotes/winston_churchill/3.html “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”
Winston Churchill

http://www.coolquotes.com/quotes/winston_churchill/3.html

]]> By: ChrisG http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15062 ChrisG Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:35:24 +0000 http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15062 Steve, Thank you. That response you made makes much more sense and I agree. I do not follow what Dobson writes/says but I will take you at your word he has said it. It will be a battle for the independents (though, techically, I am also one as I belong to no party). After watching Leno's on the street interviews concerning the elections last night, I do have to worry about how many people are paying attention or know the issues. I know his interviews are not scientific in any way and meant to encourage people to be knowledgeable, but it is still disheartening to see how little so many people seem to know about their surroundings. Now to travel home on roads full of people who incorporate the same lack of awareness in their driving..... Steve,

Thank you. That response you made makes much more sense and I agree. I do not follow what Dobson writes/says but I will take you at your word he has said it.

It will be a battle for the independents (though, techically, I am also one as I belong to no party). After watching Leno’s on the street interviews concerning the elections last night, I do have to worry about how many people are paying attention or know the issues. I know his interviews are not scientific in any way and meant to encourage people to be knowledgeable, but it is still disheartening to see how little so many people seem to know about their surroundings.

Now to travel home on roads full of people who incorporate the same lack of awareness in their driving…..

]]> By: Philadelphia Steve http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15061 Philadelphia Steve Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:24:48 +0000 http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15061 I wasn't dwelling on the reason, just the fact that I do not expect any Republicans, no matter what they say now, to vote any way other than Republican in November. It is also very unlikely that any Democrats will vote for Republicans either for that matter. The battle will be for the independents. There were significant numbers of Democrats who did cross party lines in the 1980's to vote for Ronald Reagan, but that is not going to happen this year. I used James Dobson as my poster child for a Republican who declares he would never vote for McCain now who I promise will vote for him in November (assuming he gains the nomination) for two reasons: 1. He is the latest example of a Republican leader who has declared he will never vote for McCain. 2. I used Dr. Dobson's name specifically because of the power he has within the party and the sensitivity among some Republicans about the power of the Religious Right over them. Certainly the Democratic party has its own set of foibles, so there is no purity there. But if one can't tweak the nose of one's friends, then of whom can one kid? I wasn’t dwelling on the reason, just the fact that I do not expect any Republicans, no matter what they say now, to vote any way other than Republican in November. It is also very unlikely that any Democrats will vote for Republicans either for that matter. The battle will be for the independents.

There were significant numbers of Democrats who did cross party lines in the 1980’s to vote for Ronald Reagan, but that is not going to happen this year.

I used James Dobson as my poster child for a Republican who declares he would never vote for McCain now who I promise will vote for him in November (assuming he gains the nomination) for two reasons:
1. He is the latest example of a Republican leader who has declared he will never vote for McCain.
2. I used Dr. Dobson’s name specifically because of the power he has within the party and the sensitivity among some Republicans about the power of the Religious Right over them.

Certainly the Democratic party has its own set of foibles, so there is no purity there. But if one can’t tweak the nose of one’s friends, then of whom can one kid?

]]> By: ChrisG http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15057 ChrisG Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:07:08 +0000 http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15057 <blockquote>No Republican, right up to James Dobson himself, will fail to vote for the Republican nominee, regardless of who the Republicans nominate, or the Democrats nominate. Unlike the network airheads (we’re talking about Chris Mathews now), I do not see any Republicans voting for Obama if he is the enominee any more than they would vote for Senator Clinton.</blockquote> So it is somehow a bad thing that republicans and conservatives do not want socialism from either Clinton or Obama? But Democrats, I suppose, will vote for either Hillary or Obama and that is just fine by you? Even though their primary is laced with racial overtones, states left out of primaries, and slime thrown from both Democrats at each other. As usual, I do not see much sense in your replies. I may not like McCain's poll and "please like me" flip-flopping, but I definatly do not want the <b>policies</b> of Clinton or Obama in place. With McCain, there <b><u><i>may</i></u></b> be a chance at smaller government and defending ourselves against militant Islam and other threats, but with the Dems, I see no chances of a smaller government, strong economy, lower taxes, or a strong defense. I do not think McCain, post 2000, is very conservative, but I know what the left is and do not support them. In short, it is the policies and positions of the left I do not support. Nor do I support their radical ANSWER/ACT/Soros/ACORN/WWP etc base. Yet somehow it is bad that we conservatives (if conservatives choose to vote and not sit out this election in 'protest' again) are voting republican. But it is good that all democrats will loyally vote for their party no matter who wins their primary. And is this not the reason we have primaries? We are a Representative Republic, not a direct Democracy. We have primaries to chose the final two and then choose the winner. Even in our non-parlimentary system, the final two must attract the most votes (Parlimentarians might call this a coalition). Again, your reply seems like, yet another, sweeping generalization of conservatives.

No Republican, right up to James Dobson himself, will fail to vote for the Republican nominee, regardless of who the Republicans nominate, or the Democrats nominate. Unlike the network airheads (we’re talking about Chris Mathews now), I do not see any Republicans voting for Obama if he is the enominee any more than they would vote for Senator Clinton.

So it is somehow a bad thing that republicans and conservatives do not want socialism from either Clinton or Obama? But Democrats, I suppose, will vote for either Hillary or Obama and that is just fine by you? Even though their primary is laced with racial overtones, states left out of primaries, and slime thrown from both Democrats at each other.

As usual, I do not see much sense in your replies. I may not like McCain’s poll and “please like me” flip-flopping, but I definatly do not want the policies of Clinton or Obama in place. With McCain, there may be a chance at smaller government and defending ourselves against militant Islam and other threats, but with the Dems, I see no chances of a smaller government, strong economy, lower taxes, or a strong defense. I do not think McCain, post 2000, is very conservative, but I know what the left is and do not support them.

In short, it is the policies and positions of the left I do not support. Nor do I support their radical ANSWER/ACT/Soros/ACORN/WWP etc base.

Yet somehow it is bad that we conservatives (if conservatives choose to vote and not sit out this election in ‘protest’ again) are voting republican. But it is good that all democrats will loyally vote for their party no matter who wins their primary.

And is this not the reason we have primaries? We are a Representative Republic, not a direct Democracy. We have primaries to chose the final two and then choose the winner. Even in our non-parlimentary system, the final two must attract the most votes (Parlimentarians might call this a coalition).

Again, your reply seems like, yet another, sweeping generalization of conservatives.

]]> By: Philadelphia Steve http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15049 Philadelphia Steve Wed, 06 Feb 2008 19:29:24 +0000 http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15049 Re: "Steve, the “rifts” on the right aren’t as deep as you think. " I agree with your point about Republican Party unity. I attribute the "rifts" to be media talking points to fill a 24-hour news cycle with fluff rather than real facts and information, which requires research and checking. No Republican, right up to James Dobson himself, will fail to vote for the Republican nominee, regardless of who the Republicans nominate, or the Democrats nominate. Unlike the network airheads (we're talking about Chris Mathews now), I do not see any Republicans voting for Obama if he is the enominee any more than they would vote for Senator Clinton. Re: “Steve, the “rifts” on the right aren’t as deep as you think. ”

I agree with your point about Republican Party unity. I attribute the “rifts” to be media talking points to fill a 24-hour news cycle with fluff rather than real facts and information, which requires research and checking.

No Republican, right up to James Dobson himself, will fail to vote for the Republican nominee, regardless of who the Republicans nominate, or the Democrats nominate. Unlike the network airheads (we’re talking about Chris Mathews now), I do not see any Republicans voting for Obama if he is the enominee any more than they would vote for Senator Clinton.

]]> By: Jan http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15010 Jan Wed, 06 Feb 2008 15:47:37 +0000 http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-15010 Collusion is an agreement, usually secretive, which occurs between two or more persons to deceive, mislead, or defraud others of legal rights, or to obtain an objective forbidden by law typically involving fraud or gaining an unfair advantage and can involve “wage fixing, kickbacks, or misrepresenting the independence of the relationship between the colluding parties.” via Wikipedia Some call it politics....I call it evil. Two against one is how evil gains advantage over truth. Go McCain and Huckabee. Your collusion is now public even though you will still deny it. It appears that our votes didn't even matter last night. (steeling elections....oh never...Ha) I will be sitting this election year out because of the stench of the Republican collusion. No wonder Washington is so broken. But we shouldn't be surprised. McCain has been in collusion with the dems for years. Huckabee may be new to the collusion concept but he is excelling now. Class envy and mormon hatred is taking away the best hope we have for the future of this country. I hope your pocket books and your conservative values sustain you through the next 8 years of Hillary/Obama. You fools. Collusion is an agreement, usually secretive, which occurs between two or more persons to deceive, mislead, or defraud others of legal rights, or to obtain an objective forbidden by law typically involving fraud or gaining an unfair advantage and can involve “wage fixing, kickbacks, or misrepresenting the independence of the relationship between the colluding parties.”

via Wikipedia

Some call it politics….I call it evil. Two against one is how evil gains advantage over truth. Go McCain and Huckabee. Your collusion is now public even though you will still deny it. It appears that our votes didn’t even matter last night. (steeling elections….oh never…Ha) I will be sitting this election year out because of the stench of the Republican collusion. No wonder Washington is so broken. But we shouldn’t be surprised. McCain has been in collusion with the dems for years. Huckabee may be new to the collusion concept but he is excelling now. Class envy and mormon hatred is taking away the best hope we have for the future of this country. I hope your pocket books and your conservative values sustain you through the next 8 years of Hillary/Obama. You fools.

]]> By: Scott http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-14999 Scott Wed, 06 Feb 2008 14:57:30 +0000 http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-14999 Steve, the "rifts" on the right aren't as deep as you think. MSNBC's got an analyst, Chuck Todd, who put it perfectly well after NH, "The Republicans will unite around a ham sandwich if Sen Clinton wins the nomination." I don't deny at all that there are deep differences between the far right and McCain, but the differences are not only exaggerated in depth, but ignored in importance: Hillary nomination=no lack of party unity. Far right conservatives hate her as much as far left liberals do Bush. Steve, the “rifts” on the right aren’t as deep as you think. MSNBC’s got an analyst, Chuck Todd, who put it perfectly well after NH, “The Republicans will unite around a ham sandwich if Sen Clinton wins the nomination.” I don’t deny at all that there are deep differences between the far right and McCain, but the differences are not only exaggerated in depth, but ignored in importance:

Hillary nomination=no lack of party unity.

Far right conservatives hate her as much as far left liberals do Bush.

]]> By: Philadelphia Steve http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-14995 Philadelphia Steve Wed, 06 Feb 2008 14:47:08 +0000 http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-14995 As an intgeresting question, if John McCain were to ask Mike Huckabee to be his Vice Presidential candidate, would that heal some of the rifts? As an intgeresting question, if John McCain were to ask Mike Huckabee to be his Vice Presidential candidate, would that heal some of the rifts?

]]> By: CentFla http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-14980 CentFla Wed, 06 Feb 2008 12:49:40 +0000 http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-14980 So keep pulling for the Varmit hunter I guess. Anyone who has flip-flopped this much and pandered and spent his way thus far to only win 1/3 of the amount of votes as McCain certainly deserves your support. " So keep pulling for the Varmit hunter I guess. Anyone who has flip-flopped this much and pandered and spent his way thus far to only win 1/3 of the amount of votes as McCain certainly deserves your support. “

]]> By: bbartlog http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-14946 bbartlog Wed, 06 Feb 2008 02:26:17 +0000 http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/05/its-out-in-the-open-huckabee-and-mccain-colluding-to-deny-romeny-victory/#comment-14946 <i>Ron Paul sold out? What a shocker!</i> The setup being what it is, I would expect the losers in the early rounds to try and cut deals - I wouldn't describe that as selling out. I just wish Paul had made a deal with Romney rather than Huckabee. Ron Paul sold out? What a shocker!

The setup being what it is, I would expect the losers in the early rounds to try and cut deals – I wouldn’t describe that as selling out. I just wish Paul had made a deal with Romney rather than Huckabee.

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