New Jersey Saves The Killer Of Megan

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Now this is just wonderful.  The lefties have succeeded in saving the life of a man who raped and killed a seven year old.  They should all be so proud: 

The man who raped and killed 7-year-old Megan Kanka — the 1994 crime that
inspired “Megan’s Law” — is one of eight men whose sentences were commuted to
life in prison this week as part of New Jersey’s new ban on execution.

The Garden State on Monday became the first state in more than three decades
to abolish the death penalty after a commission ruled the punishment is
“inconsistent with evolving standards of decency.”

Gov. Jon Corzine the day before commuted the sentences of eight men sitting
on the state’s death row. They will now serve life in prison without parole,
according to the governor’s office.

Among the eight is Jesse Timmendequas, 46, who was sentenced to death in June
1997 for Megan’s murder.

Prosecutors said Timmendequas lured Megan to his home by saying he wanted to
show her a puppy. He then raped her, beat her and strangled her with a belt. A
day later, he led police to her body.

“Megan’s Law,” introduced after her death, requires that authorities notify
neighbors when a sex offender moves into an area. Timmendequas had twice been
convicted of sex crimes — on 5- and 7-year-olds — before he murdered Megan.

Now the Kanka family will receive no justice and this monster will be allowed to live out his days on the taxpayers dime for many years to come. That is if the Democrats (or a Republican like Huckabee) don’t allow him out someday, feeling sorry for him as he gets older and all.

How about these other families:

Marilyn Flax often visits her husband Irving’s graveside to tell him what they’ve missed together since he was kidnapped and murdered in 1989 by New Jersey death row inmate John Martini.

She also often contemplates Martini sitting in a Trenton prison where he gets daily recreation periods and can chat with other death row inmates.

“How can I ever forget the day that John Martini kidnapped and shot my husband three times in the back of the head?” Flax asked. “I will also never forget the last words my husband said, in a terrifying, piercing voice, ‘Give them the money. They are going to kill me.’ “

Flax recalled those words as she fumed over plans by New Jersey lawmakers to abolish the death penalty and replace it with life in prison, without parole. The plan was approved by the Senate on Monday and the Assembly on Thursday and is scheduled to be signed into law Monday by Gov. Jon S. Corzine, a death penalty foe.

~~~

Flax called the legislative process a “three-ring circus of half-truths, lies and illusions.

“The agenda was preset,” said Richard Kanka, whose 7-year-old daughter Megan was killed in 1994 by a released sex offender, prompting nationwide community notification laws. “The outcome was predictable.”

Sharon Hazard-Johnson, whose parents were killed in their Pleasantville home in 2001 by death row inmate Brian Wakefield, emphasized to lawmakers that nobody on New Jersey’s death row has been found to be innocent.

“That’s proof that the system works,” she said.

In the end this may not be that big of a deal since New Jersey, being a completely corrupt and wacky state, has allowed unlimited appeals and have not executed one scumbag since the 60’s.  So whats the point? 

But for those who pine away for these killers and tell us that life without parole is good enough, tell that to the families of Bryon Schletewitz, Josephine Rocha, and Douglas White.

Clarence Ray Allen, who is scheduled for execution at San Quentin
State Prison on Tuesday, is living proof that a convicted killer can
snuff out the lives of innocent people from behind bars. In 1977, Allen
began serving a life sentence for the murder of his son’s 17-year-old
girlfriend — her punishment for confessing to a victim robbed by the
Allen gang. Allen then concocted a scheme he thought would set him free
— file an appeal, kill the witnesses, then walk after a re-trial with
no witnesses to testify against him.

Toward that end, Allen provided fellow inmate Billy Ray Hamilton
with a list of eight names of witnesses before Hamilton was paroled. In
1980, Hamilton murdered Bryon Schletewitz, 27, an Allen witness, along
with two innocent teenagers (Josephine Rocha and Douglas White) who
worked at the Schletewitz family store, which the Allen gang had
robbed. Authorities later found the list of Allen witnesses and letters
Allen sent to a son about his plan.

Juries sentenced Allen and Hamilton to death, and issued life
sentences for two accomplices. “Given the nature of Allen’s crimes,”
U.S. Court of Appeals Judge Kim McLane Wardlaw wrote in a ruling that
denied an Allen appeal, “sentencing him to another life term would
achieve none of the traditional purposes underlying punishment:
incapacitation, deterrence, retribution or rehabilitation.”

Somehow, I think the fact that these monsters get lwop instead of death won’t matter much to many victims  families.

UPDATE

This should make you feel more at ease about allowing the worst of the worst to stick around:

Two inmates escaped from a county jail, hiding the holes they made in the walls by putting up photos of bikini-clad women, officials said.

Authorities searched over the weekend for Jose Espinosa, who was awaiting sentencing for manslaughter, and Otis Blunt, who was facing robbery and other charges. They also launched a review of jail security.

The two got out of the Union County jail Saturday evening. The county prosecutor’s office said the two apparently removed cement blocks from two walls, squeezed through the openings, jumped to a rooftop below and then made it over a 25-foot-high fence. The section they escaped from was supposed to be the most secure area of the facility.

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How long will it take one or more of the ‘cons’ to con some female guard into letting/helping them excape? No longer than 24 months.

Never have any of these so-called no-death-penalty campaigners held vigils at the homes of the murdered one’s families — they are shameless bunch of fools who have no moral compass.

Yes, there is a risk we’ll execute an innocent person, but there is also the greater risk that the murderer given a life sentence kill again — and they have!

The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the – Web Reconnaissance for 12/18/2007 A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day…so check back often.

If the law won’t protect the people, then the people will begin to protect themselves. The purpose of law – aside from maintaining an order in society – is to render justice for harm done, and to do it in a manner that removes the onus of “an eye for an eye” from the person harmed. Remove that societal justice, and you’re unquestionably taking a step backwards.
I have to tell you – Law and Order to the contrary – if I were on a jury for a person who killed a murderer that had been let off by the law for some diddley reason, I would not be able to find the person guilty. Let the law do it’s job – if it won’t, then society will have to take care of itself.

Re: But for those who pine away for these killers and tell us that life without parole is good enough,”

Not that I would want to interfere with a good Conservative rant. But I noticed that “evil” New Jersey, without its death penalty, has a lower murder rate that “saintly” Texas, that just loves executing people.

In fact, of the states without a death penalty, only Michigan has a higher murder rate that Texas, Conservativbes’ model for the world.

But, be careful Conservatives, this link is to a page that presents facts, something Conservative usually do not let get in the way of their opinions.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=169

This is done as a way of increasing the budget to the corrections department which is a great place to give friends and family jobs when it comes time to curry political favor. Now this guy might live another 50 years … think about all the money that is going to be spent on feeding, clothing, and guarding him for those 50 years. It is pork. It is job security for people in the corrections area because they KNOW people like this will NEVER be released so the more people you have locked up for life (instead of executed) means the larger the corrections “industry” becomes. It’s sick. We should execute the lot of them.

Steve… If you actually contributed something useful and accurate, you would be scary.

Facts and truth are not your friend… You only have delusions and stupidity fed to you by your leftist masters. Now be a good stooge and falsly label us “NAZIs” while advocating national socialism as is the left’s M.O..

Strange you should point to Michigan, as I live in this leftist hell hole. No jobs, rabid government corruption, a state sitting on decades (or more) of oil supplies but not drilling or refining a drop, growing Islamic militancy, and very high crime rates. The left’s answer: raise taxes (again, and again), appoint political contributers to high offices, and point fingers.

Texas is under siege from ILLEGAL (as opposed to LEGAL) immigration and a little objective research would show you that is where a large numbers of crimes come from. Objective research is not forthcomming from your reference.

For some idiotic reason (other than you are a useful idiot) you seem to think all of Conservatives are in lock-step. No, sorry to burst your bubble of pathetic kool-aid, but if you want “lock-step”, look left. In case you were asleep, conservatives rallied against President Bush when he pushed Ted Kenedy’s “No Child Left Behind”, the prescription drug law, ILLEGAL immigrant amnesty (another Kenedy co-write), and other policies. Leftists, on the other hand, simply croon to the next “progressive” position no matter what happened the week, month, year before. It shows on the GWOT, the economy, corruption in congress, and pork spending.

I see nowhere that Texas is held up as the “gold standard” of conservatism. I would think states with no income taxes and VERY limited government would be better, though Texas and its people have abundant good points… But hey, you have a right to your stupidity and belief in leftist sedition and lies.

Truth would just shatter your delusional glass-house world view. You weep for the criminal and ignore the true victims. You have that luxury… until it happens to you. Who will save you from your stupidity then?

I was noting that the death penalty was no deterrent to murder, as the Conservative posts on this thread contend. And the state that executes the most has a higher murder rate than all but one of the states without a death penalty. This proves my point.

Your name calling and insults do not substitute for those facts.

Re: ” think about all the money that is going to be spent on feeding, clothing, and guarding him for those 50 years. It is pork. It is job security for people in the corrections area because they KNOW people like this will NEVER be released so the more people you have locked up for life (instead of executed) means the larger the corrections “industry” becomes. It’s sick.”

I’m sure these facts will also be ignored by Conservatives because they do not concur with the mind set that has been dictated to them.

http://www.thea-blast.org/news/132/ARTICLE/1252/2007-11-09.html

Another proven fact used in arguments by opposition groups is that the death penalty is far more expensive to both the American taxpayer and local and federal governments than imprisonment. The national average cost of execution is above $2 million per case. In Texas, one of the states that most commonly implements capital punishment, costs amount to approximately $2.3 million per execution, ranging from 150 percent to 300 percent more than the cost of lifetime imprisonment.

I didn’t lable you “useful idiot”, Lenin did. It is one of the FEW statements he made I agree with.

“But, be careful Conservatives, this link is to a page that presents facts, something Conservative usually do not let get in the way of their opinions.”

So, you can dish it out, but like a selfish bully, cannot take being called a “useful idiot”?

Not surprised…

Re: ” think about all the money that is going to be spent on feeding, clothing, and guarding him for those 50 years. It is pork. It is job security for people in the corrections area because they KNOW people like this will NEVER be released so the more people you have locked up for life (instead of executed) means the larger the corrections “industry” becomes. It’s sick.”

Some more information that Conservatives are not allowed to know.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108&scid=7

Total cost of Indiana’s death penalty is 38% greater than the total cost of life without parole sentences

The most comprehensive death penalty study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million more per execution than the a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of life imprisonment (Duke University, May 1993). On a national basis, these figures translate to an extra cost of over $1 billion spent since 1976 on the death penalty. The study,”The Costs of Processing Murder Cases in North Carolina” is available here.

Florida spends millions extra per year on death penalty
Florida would save $51 million each year by punishing all first-degree murderers with life in prison without parole, according to estimates by the Palm Beach Post.

Texas death penalty cases cost more than non-capital cases
That is about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years. (Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992)

Well, then, IF, and that is a BIG IF considering who funds and supports your reference, this is true, then there needs to be legal reforms, starting with tort reforms and other things the uber-rich leftist trial lawyers will hate, and streamlining the appeals process for the death penalty so that states could shorten the timeline and save money.

Amazing though that the left is so very much more concerned about convicted murderers and rapists (who are adults capable of making decisions) lives than the are unborn children (who have no ability to defend themselves).

I was noting that the death penalty was no deterrent to murder, as the Conservative posts on this thread contend.

Please tell me where I contended it was a deterrent to crime, and checking the comments prior to yours I don’t see it either. Like usual Steve spins and spins with no purpose. I contended that lwop has in fact not really meant lwop when you bleeding heart lefties come around many years later and feel sorry for the bastards. The death penalty is about justice and ensuring that the killer never steps foot outside of those prison walls again since he is 6 feet under.

As far as costs, I could care less if cost ten times more then it does now.

You want to lie and say something Im not in a post that is your perogative, I would expect nothing less from you.

Re: “So, you can dish it out, but like a selfish bully, cannot take being called a “useful idiot”?”

I did not, nor have I ever, resorted to calling people names of any kind.

What I have asserted, and continue to repeat, is that Conservatives have to live by a certain set of rules. These include:

1. A Conservative must always put his/her loyalty to the Republican Party, and a republican sitting president, above that to the United States of America. National interests must always be sacrificed in favor of protecting the ego of a Republican President and winning elections for Republican Candidates.

2. A Conservative cannot distinguish between an opinion (such as calling someone a name) and documented facts. This is why, after I posted documentation as to the cost of the death penalty vs. the cost of life imprisonment, responses by Conservatives such as “useful idiot” are considered valid refutations of fact.

3. Conservative must always hate someone: Whether the person is Hillary Clinton (current required hate target), or John Kerry or Franklin Roosevelt. Without hate, Conservatives would lose their reason to exist. And Republican Party membership would drop to zero.

4. Conservatives are only allowed to believe what is directed to them from approved sources (The Bush White House, the Republican national Committee, The 700 Club,) today. Anything said yesterday is inoperative. This is why Conservatives now insist that the real reason the US invaded had nothing to do with “WMD’s” or Saddams’s integral part of the September 11 attacks: The sole reason was Nation Building and brining the joy of Democracy to the Middle East.

5. When reality contradicts statements from the Bush White House, the Bush White House must always be believed. That is why, despite the fact that al Qaeda has rebuilt in Afghanistan and Pakistan (to “Pre-9/11 levels”), Conservatives must really believe that defeating “al Qaeda in Iraq”, (which, by our own military’s estimate constitutes less than 10% of the insurgency) al Qaeda world-wide will disband and Osama bin Laden will show up at the Pentagon and surrender to be executed.

That is what I believe that Conservatives are required to believe and do, no matter what. And I have yet to be proven incorrect. But I never call them names.

“1. A Conservative must always put his/her loyalty to the Republican Party, and a republican sitting president, above that to the United States of America. National interests must always be sacrificed in favor of protecting the ego of a Republican President and winning elections for Republican Candidates.”

More of a democrat trait to me. Everything George Bush does is wrong even when its a liberal policy. And the democrats in congress have plenty of statements about their goal of getting more power after elections than actually doing good for the country.

“2. A Conservative cannot distinguish between an opinion (such as calling someone a name) and documented facts. This is why, after I posted documentation as to the cost of the death penalty vs. the cost of life imprisonment, responses by Conservatives such as “useful idiot” are considered valid refutations of fact.”

That is again more of a liberal mindset. For instance it is your opinion that conservatives believe this list of utter garbage you have just posted and you are asserting it as fact.

“3. Conservative must always hate someone: Whether the person is Hillary Clinton (current required hate target), or John Kerry or Franklin Roosevelt. Without hate, Conservatives would lose their reason to exist. And Republican Party membership would drop to zero.”

Howard Dean Chairman DNC – “I hate Republicans and everything they stand for.” Democrats have also spent the past decade of being for absolutely nothing and only being opposed to the ideas presented by conservatives.

“4. Conservatives are only allowed to believe what is directed to them from approved sources (The Bush White House, the Republican national Committee, The 700 Club,) today. Anything said yesterday is inoperative. This is why Conservatives now insist that the real reason the US invaded had nothing to do with “WMD’s” or Saddams’s integral part of the September 11 attacks: The sole reason was Nation Building and brining the joy of Democracy to the Middle East.”

Conservatives were far and wide opposed to the Bush White House stance on the Shamnesty bill. Conservatives regularly slam Pat Robertson for his idiocy. Liberals though believe everything reported by the media lock-step. And refuse to listen to any counterpoints.

“5. When reality contradicts statements from the Bush White House, the Bush White House must always be believed. That is why, despite the fact that al Qaeda has rebuilt in Afghanistan and Pakistan (to “Pre-9/11 levels”), Conservatives must really believe that defeating “al Qaeda in Iraq”, (which, by our own military’s estimate constitutes less than 10% of the insurgency) al Qaeda world-wide will disband and Osama bin Laden will show up at the Pentagon and surrender to be executed.”

Harry Reid (D) Senate Majority Leader said how he would not believe any good news coming out of Iraq. He made a statement of belief and would refuse to hear anything which contradicts his preconceived outlook. And for the rest of your garbage in there I don’t believe I’ve ever heard any conservative say that beating Al-Qaeda in Iraq will defeat Al-Qaeda. They believe beating Al-Qaeda in Iraq will beat, get this Al-Qaeda in Iraq. Shocking isn’t it?

You’re a cowardly moron who thinks he’s being clever by not “insulting” but actually you are doing exactly that. I believe that you have all of the characteristics of a piece of solid waste that has passed through the rectum of a bull. You smell like it and look like it. But since I didn’t actually call you a piece of shit I didn’t insult you. Go back to playing with your blocks.

Re: “Harry Reid (D) Senate Majority Leader said how he would not believe any good news coming out of Iraq. ”

An extreme statement, to be sure. but the, after regularly hearing “we are turning the corner in Iraq” or “The insurgency is on its last legs” for four years, I do have to conclude that any statement coming from the Bush Administration, whether originating from the White House or those who report to the White House, have to be viewed skeptically. If one of those statements proved to be correct, I would conclude it was just coincidental.

Re: “That is again more of a liberal mindset. For instance it is your opinion that conservatives believe this list of utter garbage you have just posted and you are asserting it as fact.”

As I said, I have yet to see a posted fact, with sources, that contradicted my assertions. Only insults.

Doesn’t NJ lead the country in abortions per capita?

On the topic at hand, the plea is that IT COSTS MORE to execute a death row inmate than it does to give lwp; so says the NJ state-budget office.

Well, it wouldn’t, if, as liberals desire, justice is meted out swiftly.

Oh brother. Where to begin…

>>Total cost of Indiana’s death penalty is 38% greater than the total cost of life without parole sentences

The most comprehensive death penalty study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million more per execution than the a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of life imprisonment (Duke University, May 1993). On a national basis, these figures translate to an extra cost of over $1 billion spent since 1976 on the death penalty. The study,”The Costs of Processing Murder Cases in North Carolina” is available here.>>

And why is this, pray tell?

The price of a single bullet can’t be that high…

Every one of your comments have had facts thrown at you that showed you were wrong Steve. You just blindly ignore them, but that doesn’t surprise any of us. Par for the course.

Re: “Conservatives were far and wide opposed to the Bush White House stance on the Shamnesty bill.”

A valid point. I acede on that one. I was remembering how Conservatives loved the Prescription Drug entitlement, the largest expansion of Lyndon Johnson’s Great society Programs ever. But then, that particular action helped to buy the 2006 elections for Republicans and President Bush, so we all know why that happened, don’t we?

And there is still no Conservative who is permitted to admit that President Bush is the one finally accountable for the debacle that has resulted from the occupation of Iraq. Conservatives must say, “mistakes happen”: As though they fell from the sky. “Bush” and “Accountable” must never appear in the same sentence.

Re: “Howard Dean Chairman DNC – “I hate Republicans and everything they stand for.” Democrats have also spent the past decade of being for absolutely nothing and only being opposed to the ideas presented by conservatives.”

Pick any Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter speech at random. They are all filled with hate of anyone not personally loyal to George W. Bush and the Republican Party.

Conservatives have only that one quote, which they trot out at every opportunity.

On the other hand, Conservatives lionize Ann Coulter for declaring that Democrats are guilty of Treason, a federal crime that carries the death penalty. But, of course, that is not “hate”, that is only calling for killing those who disagree with her, which as we all know is DIFFERENT.

And there is still no Conservative who is permitted to admit that President Bush is the one finally accountable for the debacle that has resulted from the occupation of Iraq.

You mean the debacle that has accomplished more, with the least amount of life, in our history? That debacle? The one that has freed 25 million people and ultimately sent Saddam to the gallows, that debacle?

But come on Steve. We know what you and your comrades would of said during the first three years of the civil war, “No one is blaming Lincoln for this debacle called the civil war. Why, he should of chosen the right people from the very beginning dammit!”

I love it….

Your a disingenuous person Steve.

The fact of the matter is you cannot point to one war we have been engaged in, during out entire history, where mistakes were not made. Hindsight is only used by losers during an argument, and your using it quite a bit here.

Good leaders adapt to situations. Good leaders take chances and do the things they know is right.

Bad leaders just sit on their ass and leave it for the next guy, as Clinton did.

Re: “Every one of your comments have had facts thrown at you that showed you were wrong Steve. You just blindly ignore them, but that doesn’t surprise any of us. Par for the course.”

I must have missed it. Please re-post the facts that refuted my death penalty statements and I will admit my error.

The fact that it costs more to execute a person? You mean that one? The one fact you threw out into a comment thread that had nothing to do with what anyone was saying…that fact?

Since my post didn’t allude to the cost, as I care little about the cost. Since no comment alluded to the cost either I find it curious how you think that your comment was somehow on topic.

But other then that, yeah…you were right. It costs more to execute them thanks to liberals who give them 12 years of courts and lawyers.

Or how about that other fact you threw out there. That it doesn’t cut crime. Another fact that had nothing to do with the post or the comment.

I’ve noticed a trend with you. When your proven wrong like the dean quote above you just move on to another “fact”, and when that one is thrown aside you do it all over again with another “fact”.

As I said, your a disingenuous person.

Re: “Doesn’t NJ lead the country in abortions per capita?”

Ah yes. The final rule of Conservatives. No matter what the issue, no matter what the question: From “what time is it?”, to “Is the Moon made of green cheese?”, the answer given by a card-carrying Conservative must be, “Abortion!”.

Re: “The fact that it costs more to execute a person? You mean that one? The one fact you threw out into a comment thread that had nothing to do with what anyone was saying…that fact?”

I was posting in response to the comment about how much it was going to cost ot house this killer for the rest of his life, noting that, as far as the cost goes, it was going to be cheaper.

I also, if you noted, posted a comment refuting another poser who claimed that the lack of a “deterrent” might lead to more vigelanteism. My comment was that the death penalty has not been proven to be a deterrent.

My posts were facts, with documentation, in direct contradiction of other posts here. They were not “out of the blue”. But they were greeted with insults, and no factual refutations.

Projection is a disease Steve, seek mental help. Then learn to think for yourself and question your leftist masters.

Shocker, you don’t answer the rest of the comment which was:

On the topic at hand, the plea is that IT COSTS MORE to execute a death row inmate than it does to give lwp; so says the NJ state-budget office.

Well, it wouldn’t, if, as liberals desire, justice is meted out swiftly.

Instead you cry about the fact that many people believe abortion to be an important topic.

I’m shocked!

The website you used as reference is an openly partisan group and you call that “facts”?

Re: “As I said, your a disingenuous person.”

And I did acknowledge the Dean quote. He was wrong to say it. Not because it provides an alibi for Conservatives for the next twenty years, but simply because it was wrong to say it.

Now.

Will you disavow Ann Culter’s statements about Treason that mean those who oppose Geroge W. Bush’s policy deserve to die for their opinions, including myself?

Re: “On the topic at hand, the plea is that IT COSTS MORE to execute a death row inmate than it does to give lwp; so says the NJ state-budget office.
Well, it wouldn’t, if, as liberals desire, justice is meted out swiftly.”

Would you, as a Conservative prefer that they have no trials?

There were three comments before you posted your off-topic comments and none of them were as you allege. The first:

How long will it take one or more of the ‘cons’ to con some female guard into letting/helping them excape? No longer than 24 months.

Nope, nothing about costs or deterrent there.

the second:

Never have any of these so-called no-death-penalty campaigners held vigils at the homes of the murdered one’s families — they are shameless bunch of fools who have no moral compass.

Yes, there is a risk we’ll execute an innocent person, but there is also the greater risk that the murderer given a life sentence kill again — and they have!

Nope, nothing about costs or deterrent there.

And the third:

If the law won’t protect the people, then the people will begin to protect themselves. The purpose of law – aside from maintaining an order in society – is to render justice for harm done, and to do it in a manner that removes the onus of “an eye for an eye” from the person harmed. Remove that societal justice, and you’re unquestionably taking a step backwards.
I have to tell you – Law and Order to the contrary – if I were on a jury for a person who killed a murderer that had been let off by the law for some diddley reason, I would not be able to find the person guilty. Let the law do it’s job – if it won’t, then society will have to take care of itself.

Nope, nothing about costs or deterrent there either. Instead its about ensuring that killer is kept away from society by killing him. If the state wont do it then the people will have protect themselves somehow.

Nothing about deterrent.

You were saying?

Re: “Instead you cry about the fact that many people believe abortion to be an important topic.”

But it was not the topic of this thread. Recall that I was excoriated above for posting “off topic”.

But we all know that, when Cornered, Conservatives must always play the “Abortion!” card, as you demonstrated.

Would you, as a Conservative prefer that they have no trials?

Retarded

But it was not the topic of this thread. Recall that I was excoriated above for posting “off topic”.

Ok, then call him on it. After that maybe you could then answer the comment that was on topic. I know, its rough when you have nothing.

Re: “Nope, nothing about costs or deterrent there either. Instead its about ensuring that killer is kept away from society by killing him.”

As would be the case for life without parole.

Re: “How long will it take one or more of the ‘cons’ to con some female guard into letting/helping them excape? No longer than 24 months.”

Can you prove that will happen (how many times. Not just “Once upon a time”, or “I saw it on TV”, or “Bill O’Rielly said so”). Or is this another case where fictional stories, such as “24” and “Red Dawn” are taken as fact (see my five point post)?

Re: “Yes, there is a risk we’ll execute an innocent person, but there is also the greater risk that the murderer given a life sentence kill again — and they have!”

About what ratio of innocent convictees are Conservatives willing to see die to avoid one getting away? Ten? A hundred? Here’s a not on 126 that you would gladly have see die:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=412&scid=6

Re: “Ok, then call him on it. After that maybe you could then answer the comment that was on topic. I know, its rough when you have nothing.”

On topic was the death penalty.

Off topic was “you Liberals are the cause of these problems”

I refuted the value and cost of the death penalty, leaving vengence and the desire of Conservatives to see people die.

I also refuted the post about “all Liberals” with a little description of Conservatives on my own. It certainly raised some comments, along with insults.

But I will apologize for that off-theme comment and will go back to my origninal assertion:

The death penatly costs more, assuming you actually care if innocent people are executed.

Thedeath penalty does not deter further murders.

I documented both claims, and have yet to see facts that contradict them: Only insults and flat out, undocumented, assertions.

We can return to those points and I await facts that back up Conservative claims to the contrary.

(I also have to go away for a while and will not be able to post for a bit).

As would be the case for life without parole.

Wrong, any bleeding heart liberal Governor could come in and commute that sentence. Dead there is no chance of that.

Also, as the Clarence Ray Allen story above illustrated, even behind bars they can still be dangerous.

Please tell me which person has been executed, that was later proven innocent since the death penalty has been reinstated?

I refuted the value and cost of the death penalty, leaving vengence and the desire of Conservatives to see people die.

You refuted something which was not being argued.

The death penatly costs more

Dont care and never wrote about the costs.

assuming you actually care if innocent people are executed.

No one has been executed that was proven innocent. Your argument is silly bleeding heart hogwash.

The death penalty does not deter further murders.

Don’t care and never wrote about the deterrence.

I documented both claims, and have yet to see facts that contradict them: Only insults and flat out, undocumented, assertions.

You documented claims that had nothing to do with the post nor the comments made prior to you coming into the thread. As I said, costs…ur right it costs more. Don’t care. Deterring crime…well, it deterres any crime the scumbag would commit inside the prison walls and outside the prison walls if another Huckabee or bleeding heart liberal comes along. Does it deter crime as a whole, I doubt it. Don’t care.

Since I don’t care if it does either but do care that justice is provided for the families of those brutally murdered, and that society is ensured the person will never be out (as death most assuredly does) again, that is why I wrote the post. Without anything about costs and without anything about deterrence.

But you chose to bring in your liberal song and dance anyways.

I won’t be surprised if you bring in WMD next.

Re: death penalty as a deterrent to murder.

a) it certainly deters the person given the death penalty from any further murders.

b) statistic concerning states with lower murder rates and no death penalty: where is the cause-effect link? do they have no death penalty because they have fewer murders? or is there some direct connection between no death penalty and fewer murders? It would seem that since an unenforced death penalty results in a life sentence without parole, there is no particular benefit of blessing such a punishment by legislation. It also indicates that since the death penalty is so rarely enforced resulting in life sentences, it’s correlation to the murder rate is irrelevant.

Relax the exercise rules and let him join the other inmates in the Yard…one of them get to him and do the job. A guy as infamous as him doesn’t survive long when the fences are down.

You know I started reading and posting at this site because I found the Authors to be knowledgeable and good word smiths. The best was that it wasn’t invested with left wing vermin that have no idea of truth, I can’t say that since this Philadelphia scum came along. Truth means nothing to the left, they will say anything and do anything, to try and prove a point.The extra cost in death penalty cases comes from the millions of appeals filed at tax payer expence, quit comparing apples to oranges. No one EVER said that it was a deterent to crime, but that PUNISHMENT is meted out.

“I was noting that the death penalty was no deterrent to murder, as the Conservative posts on this thread contend.”

Contrary to years of liberal drivel repeating the mantra that it is not a deterrent, it has been shown over and over again that it is in fact a significant deterrent by study after study.

But regardless of that fact, to take someone else’s life should result in one paying with their own. And, once that sentence has been executed, there are no repeat offenders.

I thought that studies pretty well shown that executions resulted in saved lives – that it’s estimated for every person executed, between three and 18 lives are saved. So whether it’s a deterrent is beside the point.